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Glenn Beck

Obama Campaign Criticized for Treatment of Muslims; Ron Paul Founds Organization to Continue Political Fight

Aired June 19, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL GRAHAM, HOST: Hello, America. I am Michael Graham, filling in for Glenn Beck.
I want to start tonight with the presumptive Democratic nominee, Barack Obama. Now that the real race is under way, Obama appears to be fully embracing the role of politician. That means controlling his image.

Unfortunately, that backfired this week after two Muslim women were moved by campaign workers from behind Obama`s podium. It seems the campaign workers wanted to prevent head scarves from appearing in the photographs on TV shots with their candidate.

Obama`s campaign apologized, once they heard about the incident, saying the decision to move the women was offensive and counter to Mr. Obama`s commitment to bring Americans together. Well, this is certainly a brand-new Barack Obama to me.

Joining me with their thoughts is Leslie Sanchez, Republican strategist and CNN contributor, along with Keith Boykin, former Clinton aide and editor of "The Daily Voice."

Now Keith, what happened to Mr. Love and Kumbaya, let`s all sing together? He`s chucking the hasab-wearing Muslims off the stage because he doesn`t want to be associated with that religion?

KEITH BOYKIN, EDITOR, "THE DAILY VOICE": Well, fortunately, Barack Obama didn`t make this decision. He had nothing to do with it. I suppose it`s a low-level campaign staffer or volunteer who made the decision. But ultimately, it was not a good decision. He apologized for it. I think he should have done that, and he`s moved on.

His campaign is about inclusiveness. And I think he`s demonstrated that in every other aspect. This is just one example where I think a few people didn`t get the message, and now they -- now they clearly will.

GRAHAM: You mean like in Pennsylvania, where they were also setting up the people in the podium behind him so he could have the proper racial mix and not too many black people?

Leslie, it seems to me...

BOYKIN: Wait, do I get to respond to that? That`s not fair. I mean, because George Bush does this all the time. Remember George Bush had orchestrated a whole campaign scenario in Iraq where he had the troops pretending to be set up to talk about something when they were given questions in advance. I mean, come on. Politicians do this all the time.

LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: And that wasn`t George Bush.

BOYKIN: Exactly, politicians do this all the time. Their advance staff do this for them. We know this, Leslie.

SANCHEZ: Keith, I think you`re almost making our point, that this is a very controlled, manipulated candidate. That these are scenes that are created, not by accident, and not by happenstance. It`s really a profession, you know that I would say that the late Michael Deaver, really, his credit, was somebody who understood images and people.

And that`s why it`s really interesting. Was it a gaffe? Was it just a low-level campaign mistake to move the Muslim women, or is it a strategic decision because you do have a certain percentage of this population that think, erroneously, that Barack Obama is a Muslim.

GRAHAM: Listen, I want to point out where you`re both right, in my opinion, and you`re both wrong.

Keith, you`re obviously right. Smart -- I used to run campaigns. Smart imaging is great, and I can understand why you would not say, "Now I want to be running for Congress. Sorry I`m standing in front of this bordello." That`s not going to happen.

But look who he`s removing. He`s removing Muslims, Black Americans. He`s crafting an image that seems to me -- put it this way. If John McCain had flung a couple of Muslim supporters out of an event you`d be screaming about it right now. Isn`t that the case?

BOYKIN: Well, yes, I would be, and I would be doing it, and Barack Obama had done the same thing. But let`s get real here. Barack Obama had nothing to do with this decision. It was two low-level people who apparently made this decision.

And quite frankly, I don`t really think the American people are going to judge Barack Obama because some campaign volunteer or a low-level staffer made a silly decision. And that`s just not going to happen.

SANCHEZ: You know, what`s interesting about this is the Barack campaign comes back and says, "No, here are some photos with other Muslim women wearing head scarves from the past." Why was it an issue this time? Why is it a campaign that is so efficient, you know, that is not -- they`re not neophytes. They are professionals at what they do, now starting to make these types of maneuvers.

It calls into question, was this a political motive, because he`s trying to embrace different constituencies, trying to tap down these false rumors about being a Muslim or was it something purely accidental? That`s what voters are thinking, because they don`t really know him.

GRAHAM: Keith, and let me ask you a broad political question, which is we are now in the general election. During the primaries, for example, Senator Barack Obama was, you know, he was sending out campaign literature with Reverend Wright`s name in it. You`re not going to see that in the general election, I predict. The relationship with Louis Farrakhan, his supporters. I predict you won`t be seeing a lot of campaign stumping out there.

Is this the new phase, Keith and Leslie, for the campaign? We`ll start with Keith.

BOYKIN: Of course, there`s a new phase of the campaign ever since Barack Obama became the Democratic presumptive nominee. He`s obviously got to take a different approach to the campaign. Got to be a little more tightly controlled, got to be a little more planned and things like that.

You know, and Leslie and the Republicans are really crazy if they think they`re going to stretch this issue. It`s the height of desperation, I think, for the Republicans, of all people, the Republicans who are guilty of manipulating the media, manipulating the public. For them to try to accuse Barack Obama, who`s been running one of the more inclusive campaigns I`ve seen in my lifetime, it`s just laughable. I think that`s not -- that`s not even true.

SANCHEZ: OK. For anybody that thinks that Barack Obama is not a politician, I think that`s delusional.

BOYKIN: That`s not what I said, though.

SANCHEZ: But let`s take it -- let`s really kind of cut to the chase. This is an election about change. I think that we all agree with that. The difference is what kind of change? Is it good change or bad change?

You know, one of the things that, as handlers, I think -- you know, Keith and I have both worked in a lot of campaigns -- is you`re always kind of concerned about what the candidate`s going to say when they`re not refined, when they`re not kind of protected from themselves, in some cases, because they make these gaffes.

Now that`s the difference with Barack Obama. He`s always been somebody who came from the outside, who`s authentic. It was part of the appeal of his candidacy. And I will tell you, there are a lot of people who say, "You know, if he becomes, like, politics like usual, I`m going to have a hard time supporting him." People don`t know him, and this is part of an effort to get to know what Barack Obama do they have?

GRAHAM: Leslie, I want to shoot down the rumor that one of the Muslim women who was escorted from the event was, in fact, Michelle Obama. And let`s get to Michelle Obama -- I`m kidding.

Seriously, is she part of this control, too? I saw her on "The View." She`s talking about her panty hose. She says, "I don`t bake cookies. I fry bacon," which by the way men love bacon. Good move, Michelle Obama.

Keith, is Barack Obama starting to manage his wife now as part of his message for the general election campaign?

BOYKIN: I don`t think he`s trying to manage his wife. I think she`s trying to present an image of her that`s more realistic than the media depiction of her that`s been out there. You know, all of the statements that people have misattributed to her and misrepresented of her.

Now she`s going on "The View" to show that she`s a real human being. She is a mom. She is a wife. She`s a Chicagoan. She`s an ordinary wife, an ordinary woman. And I think that people get lost in that, because the Republican attack machine is so good, at defining, redefining and swift- boating people, that they don`t allow -- they don`t allow people just to be real.

GRAHAM: I have to go.

SANCHEZ: I have to -- I wouldn`t call her an ordinary woman. I think she`s an extraordinary woman. And that being said, people have respected her strong feminism stance, her strong voice. I don`t think that she`s somebody you tap down easily.

So I think this juxtaposition of her, you know, baking cookies at home, this Molly Homemaker next to this powerful, successful, professional woman, yes, we all have many identities, but people want to know which one is going to surface. Which one is the real Michelle Obama?

GRAHAM: I just want you to -- wait, I want to get on the record, guys, that swift-boating has now been redefined as quoting people accurately.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

GRAHAM: Because Mrs. Obama has been quoted accurately and...

SANCHEZ: Right.

BOYKIN: No, no, no.

GRAHAM: She was out in the campaign trail working primary voters. She was playing the anger card...

SANCHEZ: Right.

GRAHAM: ... in places like North Carolina and in urban areas around the country. How can you possibly say that this is not a shift, that this is the same old Michelle Obama? Please!

BOYKIN: Well, what has changed is that the media are now starting to see who the real Michelle Obama is. I think what happened before, that there was a caricature of who she was that was created by the Republican attack machine.

And quite frankly, you want -- now let me just say, this Leslie. If you want to talk about -- about quoting people honestly, what about all the times that John McCain`s comments have been used and supposedly, according to you, distorted?

And suddenly, when Michelle Obama`s comments are used and distorted, we have a different perspective about it. I think we have to be consistent about how we approach this.

What the American people want is they want consistency. They want fairness.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BOYKIN: They want integrity in this election process. And we`re not getting it with all the attacks and the meandering and the smears. Let`s move onto the real issues, the economy and the gas prices.

GRAHAM: Leslie?

SANCHEZ: I just have to say, I think the media`s in love with Barack -- with the Obamas. I think absolutely the opposite. I think they get a free pass in many things. And if anything, it`s this kind of view of the media giving a free pass is one thing that`s united conservatives and a lot of Clinton feminists who think that the Barack Obama candidacy is something that needs to be explored more because they`re not prepared. They`re not prepared. They`re not prepared.

GRAHAM: You`re being so unfair to Keith, our fine -- I`ve got that pillow coming for you, right away, OK, Keith? The media love Barack Obama. Of course they do.

Leslie, Keith, thanks again. We`ll show you again later in the show.

Coming up, he may have suspended his bid for the presidency, but he hasn`t stopped talking about the issues. Texas congressman Ron Paul stops by to discuss his new Campaign for Liberty.

Plus the shocking discovery of a pregnancy pact among several teen girls in Massachusetts. It`s elevated the debate over contraception in school. Even more shocking? The information about one of the fathers. That`s in a bit.

And just a reminder: tonight`s show is brought to you by the Sleep Number Bed by Select Comfort. Sleep Number, it`s the bed that counts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GRAHAM: Coming up, it seems like just about every politician in Washington has jumped into the oil debate in recent weeks. Unfortunately, it has a lot more to do with the election cycle than actually saving you money at the pump. I`ll explain in a bit.

Texas Congressman Ron Paul may have ended his campaign for the presidency, but that doesn`t mean he`s ready to give up the spotlight just yet. The 72-year-old Texan has raised a bunch of money online, has developed a huge grassroots following.

Paul now says he`s shifting gears to concentrate on his Campaign for Liberty, a new effort to help elect libertarian-leaning Republicans to public office around the country.

Joining me now, author of "The Revolution," Congressman Ron Paul.

Good to see you, Congressman.

REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: Thank you. Nice to be with you today.

GRAHAM: So tell me about this revolution and your concrete efforts to energize these thousands of people who are, you know, big-time Ron Paul supporters?

PAUL: Well, you know the primaries have ended, and we came up short. But a lot of our supporters didn`t want to quit. So we organized a new group. It`s called Campaign for Liberty. And it can be found at CampaignForLiberty.com. Continue to do exactly what we`ve been doing: energizing people, getting young people interested, studying the issue, understanding the Federal Reserve system, understanding why those oil prices are high, and talking about these issues.

So we`re very, very active. And we`ve had a great deal of interest already expressed in our new organization.

GRAHAM: Well, look, I think it`s great. I spend a lot of time talking at college kids who are looking around, going, "Isn`t the government supposed to feed, cloth, house me, and change my diaper for me?" So I love the idea of college kids out fighting for liberty.

My question for you, and I`ve always asked this question for all libertarians. I`ve asked this before, Congressman. What makes you believe that Americans want more liberty? Don`t these Gen-Xers and their "please take care of me" mentality really reflect where, sadly, America is today.

PAUL: Well, you know, there`s a contest going on. Those who want to be taken care of by others and using government force to do it, and those of us who say that we should be responsible, take care of ourselves.

A year and a half ago, when I was reluctant to join the presidential race, I was convinced that nobody would listen, nobody cared. We need another generation. We needed a disaster to wake up people.

But I`ll tell you what. In the last year or so I have been very encouraged by the number of young people. They come to my office endlessly talking about self-reliance and responsibility. So I am very encouraged.

And I think it`s the need. I think it`s the obvious evidence that the government doesn`t work. The foreign policy`s in shambles. The spending is too high. And the young people know they`re getting the bill. And that`s why I think they`re waking up.

GRAHAM: You know Congressman Paul, I would love to believe you. I want to live in an America that`s a lot more like the one you want, self- reliance. And I see it, for example, in Iowa, where the floods strike and people rush out. And they help their neighbors. They help themselves.

But let`s face it: a lot of America lives in New Orleans. People sitting around, flooded, waiting: "Please come get me."

Can you give me an example of where you see liberty winning in the public debate today here in the United States?

PAUL: Well, I think we won the argument with -- with New Orleans. The government totally failed. And people were waking up. They can`t depend on the government.

So no, I think it is difficult. And there`s a lot of people who think government can bail them out. But the government`s running out of money, resources, and ability. And in it, it`s going to end.

You know, I complain about us being in 130 countries and 700 bases, but that`s going to come to an end, not because I`m going to persuade everybody, but we`re going to run out of money. We`re going to ruin our dollar, and we`ll have to cut back.

We`ll have to live within our means. But big decision is whether it`s going to be the society you and I would like to have, with less government and self-reliance and following the Constitution. Or whether we`re going to accept this notion that the government`s going to save us.

Well, obviously, the government can`t save us, because the government is -- is nobody that can`t create jobs and that can`t create wealth. And the sooner we wake up, the better.

GRAHAM: I want to get to a -- political stories in the presidential race in a second. But one last thing, you mentioned oil prices. In your view, it seems to me, it`s classic libertarian supply and demand. Am I missing something here on why the price is so high?

PAUL: Yes, there`s another addition to that. It`s the supply and demand of energy. But that is not our problem. You can get all of the oil and gasoline you want at the gas station today.

But the reason there`s a problem is the price is too high. So they don`t talk about the supply and demand of dollars. The supply of dollars is too much, and that`s why the dollar it`s gasoline prices are going up.

Also the foreign policy of our intervention in the Middle East has been a fear factor. And there`s danger over there, and that has pushed the prices up. They`re up over $100 since we`ve invaded Iraq so that is a factor. Nobody really wants to talk about them. But the cost of gasoline is up because the value of the dollar is down.

GRAHAM: I want to speak about foreign policy for a second, because you and I disagree on foreign policy. You know, having a loony tune like Saddam Hussein running around, threatening his neighbors was never good for gas prices.

You add China and India`s demand in a tight supply to a loony tune like Saddam Hussein, you have a problem.

I have to ask you, because I think it`s a necessary question. So many of your supporters I meet are also part of the 9/11 truth movement. You`ve appeared in a movie "End Game" that talks about the build-a-burgers (ph), et cetera. Why do you think there is such an attraction from that part of the political discourse to your movement?

PAUL: Well, I`m not sure. And one of the reasons is that, though I don`t endorse those concerns, I probably have, you know, encouraged it, ironically. Because I haven`t accepted the 9/11 investigation.

GRAHAM: You haven`t?

PAUL: No. Because I think they hid things from us, and they didn`t want to blame anybody. Nobody was discovered to be inept. We spent $40 billion on security, and the information was there.

What about the CIA agent that reported 35 or 40 times that these individuals were flying airplanes but learning how to fly airplanes but not land them, and we didn`t do anything. But nobody was punished. So there was a lot of ineptness there on it. And nobody talks about the incentives for people to commit suicide terrorism.

And it`s very, very clear that suicide terrorists are not motivated because people are rich or because they`re free. They`re motivated, mainly, and almost wholeheartedly, because they`re occupied by foreign nations. If we don`t understand that, we are going to be forever threatened by terrorists.

GRAHAM: Once again, I disagree with you. But you are saying there`s something about the 9/11 attack that we should know but don`t? I thought we knew. Nineteen guys, airplanes slammed into the buildings. What don`t we know?

PAUL: Well, what we don`t know is who was inept. We had that information buried in all those records that some of these people were stirring around. We didn`t do anything to prevent it. I mean, we had all this money spent to protect us.

On that day, on 9/11, Seoul, Korea, was better protected than Washington, D.C., and New York City. So there`s something wrong. We`re looking outward not inward. We closed our bases in America, and we build them in Saudi Arabia, which was the No. 1 motivating factor of Osama bin Laden. He says, "You have a military base by foreigners on our holy land."

So we have to understand that. It`s not -- it`s no way we can solve this problem.

GRAHAM: And of course, we there were because of the threat of Saddam Hussein, which takes us back to the beginning.

But Congressman, I`ve got to take a quick break. I`d love to continue this conversation. When we return, more with Congressman Ron Paul in just a minute. Please stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAHAM: I`m back with Texas congressman, former presidential candidate and Campaign for Liberty founder, Ron Paul.

And Congressman Paul, I am excited that you`re getting young people excited about libertarian ideas, pumped up. Will they be playing a role in the presidential election? Will you be backing the libertarian candidate, Bob Barr?

PAUL: I have not made that decision as of now, no. I haven`t endorsed anybody for the presidency. We`re mainly working on a grand celebration of liberty, a rally in Minneapolis on September 2. But maybe after that, I might think about it. But there`s a friend running in for the Constitutional Party -- on the Constitutional Party ticket as well as Bob Barr.

GRAHAM: I`m curious about this mini-convention you`re going to have while the Republicans are in Minneapolis. Is that the plan? Are you there to protest? Are you there to amplify? What`s the goal?

PAUL: Well, it`s a philosophic protest, but it`s not even nearby. It`s like eight miles away. And it`s to help celebrate what was accomplished in this last year and a half. The hundreds of thousands of people that have worked in the campaign, as well as over a million votes and over millions more that have been interested.

It`s to come there, and to celebrate what we have done, and make plans for the future. But it`s not there to disrupt or be confrontational or demonstrate or anything like that. It`s to be very positive and to emphasize why more freedom is necessary, not more government.

GRAHAM: And of course, you`ve got to love libertarian protesters. They respect private property. They don`t burn anything, turn anything over.

But I do want to ask about the concern that I`ve heard from some people who really don`t want to see Democrats take control of the White House. They`re very concerned about it. And they`re concerned, Congressman Paul, that your movement might be the Ralph Nader movement of 2008. Might make just enough different in just the right states to give the election to Senator Obama.

PAUL: Well, if it`s motivating some Republicans to put pressure on our nominee to be more conservative, that`s good.

But what they don`t understand is that the No. 1 group of people who come to our campaign are young people who may be Obama supporters. So the Republican Party really should be encouraging me, because I can compete and draw people away from Obama, because he doesn`t offer anything for change. His foreign policy isn`t any different. His foreign policy is the same as McCain`s foreign policy.

So I would say that I would get more votes drawn away from Obama than from McCain.

GRAHAM: And I`ve heard you say that, and I`ve seen some evidence of it. I don`t get it. How can you be a libertarian supporter of nationalized health care and seizing control of the oil industry? I don`t understand how that works.

PAUL: I don`t support that.

GRAHAM: I`m not, you, but these college kids, who are like, "Well, maybe Ron Paul. Maybe Obama?" I don`t understand that.

PAUL: Yes, but he talks in generalities. And he talks about nice things and he has nice rhetoric. And the young people say, "Hey, that sounds pretty good." But when they study the issues they come our way.

GRAHAM: One last question for you, Congressman Paul and I really appreciate your time. If you`re talking to a young person, my 15-year-old son, for example, suddenly got energized about politics, in fact, in large part because of Glenn beck. And young people are looking for an idea that they hold an advance, where they have a legitimate shot. An idea that America will resonate with Americans. What idea that you talk about in your book, "The Revolution," would you point them to first?

PAUL: Well, the first issue that brings people to our campaign has been the foreign policy of nonintervention, minding our own business, a strong national defense. We`ve got the most money from the active military duty people than anybody else. That`s No. 1.

And then the other subject that brings young people is following the Constitution. Particularly with monetary policy. Don`t print money when you need it. That`s why prices go up. And all of a sudden they say -- a light bulb goes on and they say, "Yes, the Constitution, the rule of law, sound money and a sensible foreign policy."

GRAHAM: Thank you so much, Congressman Ron Paul. We appreciate it.

PAUL: Thank you.

GRAHAM: Coming up, why your congressman`s latest bids to solve the oil crisis is more about building political capital than it is about building energy independence. I`ll explain it in just a bit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAHAM: I`m Michael Graham sitting in for Glenn Beck, who, no joke, fell down a flight of stairs at his home. He`ll be fine. Coming up in just a bit, the best way to prevent teenage pregnancy in schools has been debated for years now but how do you stop teenage girls who want to get pregnant? This appears to be the case in Gloucester, Massachusetts, where a group of teenage girls made a pregnancy pact so they could raise their children together. If you`re not shocked yet, wait until I tell you who one of the fathers is. More in just a bit.

But first the price of oil is the hot topic in this country. And while it fell a few dollars today that China will raise fuel prices it`s still near it`s all-time high. Let`s led everyone from the president on down to once again call for action. What else is new? Our politicians have been talking about the problem for decades now. So before you get too excited that this is finally the time that we will get serious about energy in America, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: For many Americans there is mow more pressing concern than the price of gasoline and families across our country are looking to Washington for a response.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was a troubling situation 35 years ago. It was an alarming situation 20 years ago. It is a dangerous situation today.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe it is time for a president who will take on the big oil and gas companies so we can finally meet our energy challenges.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NY: The president today just spoke about high gas prices. And to listen to the president, you`d think that it`s the local gas station that`s the problem. We all know it`s the big oil companies that are causing these massive price increases.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) MA: There`s going to be a lot of hype about the price in increases but we`re still going to get stuck with it and we`re still going to pay it and in the end it isn`t going to roll back and nobody`s going to do anything.

FORMER SEN. GARY HART, (D) CO: So the Hart policy throughout was the policy of this country from 1974 from 1980 and that is to make this nation sufficiently energy secure and sufficiently independent of Persian Gulf oil.

SEN. ROBERT BYRD, (D) WV: We`re now seeing an administration that is dedicated to dismantling the synthetic petroleum programs, cutting down on the department of energy, dismantling the conservation programs, and relying almost wholly on increased production of oil in this country.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT: We`re going to have to take whatever action is necessary to increase domestic supplies of energy. That is the answer to our problem. Instead of continuing foreign dependence.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT: The United States is the only major industrial country without a comprehensive, long-range energy policy.

Beginning this moment, this nation will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977, never.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRAHAM: And that is why, Mr. and Mrs. America, we trust our politicians. Joining me now is Bob O`Brien, stocks editor for Barron`s online. Leslie Sanchez is a Republican strategist and CNN contributor and Keith Boykin is the editor of "The Daily Voice" and forger Clinton aide. Bob, what the heck has been going on for 35 years? And have we learned a single lesson about America, energy and gas prices?

BOB O`BRIEN, BARRON`S ONLINE: Yeah, it`s that every time we look to Washington to resolve this, we come away disappointed. I think that`s one of the -- one of the lessons that we`ve learned here. But you know part of the problem here, Michael, is that we keep trying to orchestrate solutions to problems we may not have any jurisdiction over. Really the price of oil isn`t a function of what the big oil companies are making in profits, it`s more of a function of demand in emerging markets like China and India, nations that are consuming, and have less price sensitivity than United States does. So unfortunately this is one of those circumstances where the United States can`t simply will its way out of its problems.

GRAHAM: Well, Bob, I hate to disagree with you but I think that there is something that Washington can do, and that is to make it worse. I`m look at "USA Today`s" coverage of the oil plans. I`m looking at Senator Obama opposes the drilling. Opposing ending the moratorium on nuclear - on nuclear -- going to ANWR. If you oppose every new source of energy, isn`t that one way that Washington can in fact have an impact on my gas prices, making them worse.

O`BRIEN: Well, the question there, Michael, though, is what impact would actually drilling in increase production and places like ANWR have on the price of crude? Most of the forecasts that I have seen suggests that if we went with an aggressive program in ANWR of exploration and oil drilling, would it affect about a dollar a barrel crude and crude as we have seen can move up $4, $5, even $10 a barrel in the course of a single day. So you have to be able to demonstrate that the efforts of production are going to do something to the actual end prices. And I think you send a message to consumers who are just now starting to sort of throttle back on some of their demands that if production is going to be the answer to their problems, they no longer have to keep the SUV in the garage.

GRAHAM: I wanted to go to Leslie and Keith to the politics. But one last question for you, Bob. If someone said we don`t have enough bread, bread costs too much. Let`s make some more bread. No one would argue, no don`t make bread. Even if this doesn`t solve the problem, isn`t this common sense, we need more oil. Let`s go get more oil. How can people even argue against that?

O`BRIEN: Well, because this is a problem that`s more of demand than of supply. So instead of trying to say let`s go out and make more bread, you should be saying let`s stop eating quite so much bread. And start thinking about other -- other foodstuffs that we can use. Take a look at the way the demand trends have gone just over the course over the last month, finally consumers, whether they`re doing it because they simply can`t afford to fill up the gas tank or they are making an affirmative choice to throttle back, that`s the message that Washington ought to be sending.

GRAHAM: Keith, is it fair to say that Senator Obama`s strategy is to make me drive less and make me ride a bus whether I like it or not it takes $10 gasoline, that`s what I am going to do?

KEITH BOYKIN, "THE DAILY VOICE": No of course it`s not fair and it`s not fair to compare this to bread. Bread is one of those resources that we can infinitely produce. Oil is a finite resource. We can`t do it. The problem with our oil costs today is based on consumption, not production. We`re five percent of the world`s population, we consume a quarter of the world`s oil supply. That`s a huge problem. It`s a problem that we`ve been having for quite some time now. That`s why no president from Jimmy Carter onto George W. Bush has done enough about this. If we want to solve the problem we have to create alternative source of energy, we have to create fuel-efficient vehicles, and we have to encourage conservation in our country. Just drilling for oil is not going to solve our problems for all the reasons that Bob just explained.

GRAHAM: Leslie, the way that we force people to stop driving, overpaying for cars is with sketchy technology is to get the price of gasoline up seven, eight dollars and when Senator Obama says all that he objects to is the high price that he wishes more gradual, doesn`t that reveal of what the left wants? Which is get out of your car because we said so.

LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Those are really frightening words, this forced conservation idea, exactly right. Look at some of the Democrats on the hill who are talking about nationalizing the refineries. The Democrats fundamentally believe that we should conserve -- you know everybody should consume and conserve. I think most people would agree with that. But they also believe the federal government can level the playing field.

At what point does the government become responsive to your point? When it`s five dollars a gallon, six dollars a gallon? Seven dollars? When do they stop catering these special interest environmentalists and start looking at the working folk?

BOYKIN: Whoa, whoa.

GRAHAM: I want to get the economist back involved, Bob. I`m interested in this idea that Americans should feel guilty. Senator Obama does mention consumption when he talks. He always goes right there. Why should I feel guilty if we consume 25% of the earth`s oil each year if we`re generating about 30 percent the earth`s wealth? We use our resources well. About you compare our drilling, for example, to Nigeria`s or Venezuela`s it`s much more responsible and our energy use is much more responsible.

O`BRIEN: No, I don`t think that you can argue that our energy use is more responsible than other developed nations. It`s certainly not more responsible than many of our European counterparts. The fact of the matter is that this is a nation that spends less on infrastructure for public transportation than almost any other industrialized nation in the globe does. And those sorts of initiatives -- I mean you`ve effectively -- you`ve effectively created an environment in which it only becomes cost effective for people to cut back on their usage of automobiles once you start seeing these prices get to these absurd levels.

GRAHAM: So in other words, would you support the strategy of driving the price of gas through roof to force me on to trains and buses because for 25 years I haven`t taken them. That`s economist answer?

O`BRIEN: That`s not the economist answer. I don`t even think that`s the left`s answer though I wouldn`t presume to speak for them. You know the price of these products is not a reflection of the political will right now. It`s a reflection of a global demand story that is seeing explosion in the economic -- in the economic recovery. Of places like China and India.

GRAHAM: I have a question for Keith.

BOYKIN: Let`s not forget who is responsible for this, too, Michael. Gas was $1.45 a gallon when Bill Clinton left office and now it`s $4.04 a gallon. And as price it`s there`s talk that it might go up to $5.00, $6.00 a gallon this year, this summer. If that happened under George W. Bush`s watch.

SANCHEZ: Let`s be fair.

GRAHAM: It`s George Bush`s fault. He`s hiding after the gas in his backyard right now.

BOYKIN: No but he`s doing nothing.

GRAHAM: Serious question, Keith, do you honestly -- do you believe that this is a winning issue for Democrats to be against exploration when polls show people support it? To be against nuclear -- In other words to give us no change on energy policy, Keith?

BOYKIN: I think that we are encouraging change. The Democrats are the only talking about change. We`re talking about renewable sources. Increasing the CAFE standards. Doing something that will actually create jobs at the same time that we make America more energy independent. That`s a long-term solution. Not some gimmick about a gas-tax holiday or a gimmick about drilling in ANWR. Those will not solve our energy problems.

GRAHAM: I`ve got to let you go. We`re out time. Thank you, guys, you`re all terrific. All I will say is this if it was a mistake not to be drilling 10 years ago so the oil could be here today, isn`t it a mistake today not to be drilling for 10 years from now?

Coming up, controversy over contraception at a Massachusetts high school is heating up after the discovery of, I`m not making this up, a pregnancy pact, among several female teen students. I`ll have all of the latest details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAHAM: Call me a right wing reactionary but I have kind of always seen teen pregnancy as a bad thing. That isn`t the case with a group of high school girls in Gloucester, Massachusetts, the big story a few weeks ago was that the medical director and chief nurse resigned from Gloucester High when they were told they couldn`t hand out birth control to students without parental commission. In their defense the white coats said they were compelled to something in response to the spike in teen pregnancy. Turns out that the spike was by design. According to "Time" magazine of the 17 girls that are expecting at the school, nearly half have confessed to making a pact to get pregnant on purpose. They wanted to raise their babies together, how cute. None of the girls` is older than 16. The school principal now says one of the lucky fathers actually a 24-year-old homeless guy. Those crazy, kids.

Angus McQuilken is a spokesman for the Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts and Sue Todd is the president and CEO of Pathways for Children. Thank you for joining us. I would like to start with you, Angus. If I can I want to read from the "Time" magazine story. How they treat pregnant moms or expecting moms and new moms at this school. The school invites them to school. They have freshman teen pregnancy day. Your strollers mingle seamlessly among the hallway among cheerleaders and Junior ROTC. They`re proud to have the moms stay in school. Angus isn`t this exactly what the Planned Parenthood people wanted and now getting it right in the eye?

ANGUS MCQUILKEN, PLANNED PARENTHOOD LEAGUE OF MASS.: I think what we have here is a case of young people making foolish decisions without realizing the consequences and need in the school is education. Education that`s comprehensive about sex. So that young people will have the information they need to stay safe and healthy. A program that encourages abstinence but also provides information about contraception and sexually transmitted infections but also educates young people about decision-making so they can make better decisions about their lives, about their health today and into the future.

GRAHAM: I have to ask what is it that a 15-year-old girl who is out recruiting their 24-year-old bum on the corner to get her pregnant for a bottle of liquor doesn`t know about sex? It seems to me is not the problem of lack of information it`s what you cannot change in the government program. The lack of judgment in a 15-year-old.

MCQUILKEN: Clearly what they don`t understand are the consequences. That this is going to limit their options in the future. It is going to limit their options educationally, going to limit their options economically. Teen pregnancy is the number one reason girls drop out of school in Massachusetts and this country. We need to get real. We need to understand that sexual health matter and educate these young people about the decisions they make and about how to keep themselves safe and keep themselves healthy.

GRAHAM: Now, Sue Todd, my understanding is that you run the day care center at Gloucester High in Gloucester, Mass is that right?

SUE TODD, PRES. AND CEO, PATHWAYS FOR CHILDREN: That`s right. That`s one of our programs.

GRAHAM: It sounds like an awfully welcoming affirming environment for teen mos. . Why shouldn`t these 15-year-old mom, 16-year-old moms say, why shouldn`t you get treated? Isn`t that what you are doing in Gloucester?

TODD: The data supports that located in the public schools are a deterrent to young women getting pregnant. And I think the issue is much broader. It`s a social concern. It`s a communitywide issue and where we stand is if we could have more transparency, systems coming together to work to identify the root causes of why girls are getting pregnant in the first place, to identify the trends that are happening and then bring the powers, be the public schools programs, such as our parents together for a dialogue to determine the causes and react to that. Rather than a narrow focus.

GRAHAM: I`m not an expert. I confess right up front. I`m a dad a 13-year-old daughter who is quite frankly terrified and I want to understand why isn`t pounding these kids with no, no, no, it`s not acceptable. I have to tell you, Angus, I think you guys got everything that you wanted in this school. This school had very aggressive sex ed programs. Very welcoming to pregnant kids. Very much away of the making people feel bad and look at what you have got. Girls who decided on purpose. Let`s get together, let`s get pregnant. It seems to me the perfect liberal storm for your programs at work.

MCQUILKEN: Actually, the sex ed programs at this school, apparently end the at end of freshman year but the approach that you`re advocating the no, no, no, abstinence no marriage approach until marriage which the Bush administration has been pushing on us for years has been a colossal failure and we`re seeing the results of that now. After 14 years of declining teen pregnancy rates in this country now they`re on the rise. In two communities near Gloucester, Lowell has the ninth highest teen pregnancy in the state. Lawrence has the third highest. They use abstinence until marriage programs in those schools. Those programs have been a colossal failure. What we need are programs that are prove to work. Comprehensive programs that include abstinence but also information about prevention and decision making. And the rule of parents are so critical. And I hope we`re going to have an opportunity to talk about that.

GRAHAM: The problem is that the parents -- we`re going to be left out and the goal of the two people of the school was to leave parents out, Sue and say, trust the school. Don`t trust the parents. We know if these kids need to be on, birth control or not. Hasn`t the school shown what they do when you trust them with the kids` sex education.

MCQUILKEN: I think it`s actually not the physicians that have made that decision relative to parental permission. It`s the law. How much with our program, we really are pushing for a more parental accountability and responsibility. That if the lines of communication are kept open for a child from a very young age throughout their high school years and college years, we won`t be seeing the incidence of pregnancy that we are seeing. It`s a much broader social issue.

GRAHAM: I want to ask you briefly, Sue, do you think there`s a place for shame in the education of children? In other words, to think it is possible to do something that`s wrong that you should feel bad about? Is there a place for that in education?

TODD: I think there`s a place for accountability. I don`t think there is a place for shame.

GRAHAM: Yeah I didn`t think so. I thought I saw the answer coming a mile away. Sue, Angus, thank you very much.

TODD: Well, it is accountability.

We`ll be back in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAHAM: Just because Glenn`s not here doesn`t mean that you should go a day without being told that gas prices are at a record high. A gallon going for over four bucks. Anybody with any common sense says we should do a lot more domestic drilling. Of course, if that doesn`t work, we can always give Barack Obama`s plan a try, and only drive cars that run on pixie dust and unicorn hair. Most drivers are dealing with the high prices at the pump by complaining about it. Some are driving less and others have traded if their four-wheels for two but if a motorcycle scares you, CNN`s Richard Roth may have another idea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nick Bilton was not born to be wild. However skyrocketing gas prices forced a change. He dumped his car and purchased a scooter.

NICK BILTON, SCOOTER COMMUTER: Just makes so much sense from both the financial standpoint and an ease of use getting around the city.

ROTH: It made sense to Mark Amerise, too, he has a Lincoln Continental but shopping for a scooter.

MARK AMERISE, SCOOTER SHOPPER: You feel right now for the price of gas we`re all just throwing the money away.

ROTH: He was in Vespa, Brooklyn. A store that quickly opened and a store that quickly sold 25 bikes.

CRYSTAL HADJIMINIAS, VESPA BROOKLYN: I have people calling me up. Asking me how many miles to the gallon they will get.

ROTH: The scooter industry reports sales are up 25 percent nationally.

ANDREW HADJIMINIAS, VESPA BROOKLYN: On a day like this would you rather be snuck the subway or on a scooter getting fresh air?

ROTH: So I stopped by the scooter club`s weekly hangout.

Does the scooter make you feel like a different person when you`re riding it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, a little bit more powerful. A lot more fun. Kind of cool.

ROTH: Could I too, be cool? I have never ridden a scooter before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a first time for everything.

ROTH: Club co-founder Jonathan Percale (ph) took me for a right.

All right I`m holding onto you. Where do you like to be held? Here or here? Hips? Very firm hands. Easy. Oh boy. So far as long as we don`t get in on the highway, I feel safe.

I couldn`t help think of another famous scooter couple in the movie "Roman Holiday." Jonathan was no Audrey Hepburn.

Whoa. You`re kind of pushing up against me.

Are scooters sexy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

ROTH: In what way?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess the wind.

ROTH: I lived in Rome for four years but I never rode a Vespa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not?

ROTH: I was too scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came outside and I saw these wonderful sexy men with all of these scooters and I was shocked. They`re beautiful and sexy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRAHAM: I`m Michael Graham filling in for Glenn Beck. From New York, good night.

END