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Glenn Beck

Interview With John McCain; Interview With Tim Pawlenty

Aired August 07, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GLENN BECK, HOST: Tonight I speak to John McCain about energy. Does he have what it takes to create some real solutions or is he wasting our energy? We`ll also talk to a man who could be McCain`s number two, Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.
Plus, megachurch pastor and bestselling author Rick Warren does the impossible, unites McCain and Obama. We`ll ask him about his controversial decision to host the candidates at his church and the role that faith will play in the election.

And a shocking story you`re not going to believe. Mexican troops cross into the U.S. and hold an American border agent at gunpoint. Mexican troops. No arrests. Details on this and so much more, tonight.

Well, hello, America. I`ve got so much to get into tonight. I want to get right to the point. Here it is, our two-faced double-dealing government is at it again. The point, our government is making gas out of coal, out of natural gas, out of garbage, but none for you.

Let`s get right to the guy who knows all about it. Hunt Ramsbottom, he is the CEO of Rentech. Really, Hunt Ramsbottom?

HUNT RAMSBOTTOM, CEO, RENTECH: At least you can pronounce it, Glenn.

BECK: That`s not saying much for me. I mean, it`s T. Boone, it`s Rex Tillerson, and Hunt Ramsbottom.

RAMSBOTTOM: And that`s not my stage name, by the way.

BECK: So Hunt, this is coal to liquid, natural gas to liquid, garbage to liquid.

RAMSBOTTOM: Right, if you think about it, Glenn, any hydrocarbon we can turn into clean fuel. Whether it`s municipal solid waste, whether it`s garbage, fossil-based fuels. Our first run of the plant in Colorado was on natural gas to jet fuel. But that`s the beautiful thing about this technology and our iron catalyst. We can turn just about any hydrocarbon into clean transportation fuels.

BECK: This is what really pisses me off. The Air Force is way ahead of everybody else. All of the other branches of the military, correct me if I`m wrong, all the other branches are like, I don`t know. The Air Force says a significant oil shortage is the biggest threat to our nation, and so they have been blazing a path towards this, right?

RAMSBOTTOM: That`s right.

BECK: Why the hell -- We can make fuel out of garbage and it`s clean. Why aren`t we doing this for everybody?

RAMSBOTTOM: I think we`re absolutely going to do it. It has to happen in our view. That`s why we`re so excited at the company. It`s going to happen because it has to happen.

BECK: OK, wait a minute. Do you remember what`s his name, on the program, the head of Virgin Atlantic. Sir Richard Branson. He was on here, the media went crazy. Oh, what a God this man is. Look at this. A year ago or eight months ago, I remember seeing a U.S. Air Force jet fly and take off -- why is nobody covering this?

RAMSBOTTOM: Covering the Air Force taking off with the airplanes?

BECK: That you can make fuel out of garbage?

RAMSBOTTOM: I don`t know. I think people are just learning we can do this, quite honestly. I think our technology has been pigeonholed. People talk about coal to liquids, and we`re just getting the word out which is why I`m here today, that we can turn garbage, waste, biomass we can do.

BECK: Nobody in the government, the word may not have gotten out, but the people in the government know.

RAMSBOTTOM: Right.

BECK: I mean we`re talking about, let`s get a tire gauge here and make sure. We can make fuel out of garbage, and you`re talking about pumping more air?

RAMSBOTTOM: Well, here is the deal. Our fuels, and I think the education we have gotten through Washington, our fuels can be carbon neutral, they can be carbon negative, anything you want. It just depends on how much by biomass you use, how much garbage you want to use or if you use a fossil based fuel and you capture it like we`re doing at our plant in Mississippi. We`re capturing all of the CO2 in our first plant and using it for enhanced oil recovery. It`s a two-fer. It`s a three-fer.

BECK: What is the name of your company?

RAMSBOTTOM: Rentech.

BECK: And it`s publicly traded or private?

RAMSBOTTOM: It is publicly traded on the American Stock Exchange.

BECK: What`s the problem?

RAMSBOTTOM: Let me show you a picture here. You see that right there? This is normal diesel and there is our first run of clean diesel right there. So that is our first run, it`s not a professional shot, came out of the lab yesterday. Who would not want that in the marketplace?

BECK: First of all I have to tell you I`m calling Al Gore and RKF Jr. I hope you have an offset for that picture. Hunt, thanks a lot. We`ll have you back. I would like to spend more time with you. Thanks a lot.

RAMSBOTTOM: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

BECK: You`re not an oil expert, I`m not an oil expert, but we are thinkers. Hello, big oil keeps getting beat up all the time. And I wonder how much of this is fair or not. A few months ago, I talked to the president of Shell Oil, this is when he was the president. I talked to him on the air and off the air. He said, you know what? Let me tell you something, Glenn. I`m about to leave the company and I have got plenty to say that nobody has ever heard before, and I`m not holding back. Well, tomorrow, I`m going to give him a full hour to say it, oh, yeah. I want you to get just a little taste of what he has to say.

He`s joining me now, John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil, founder and CEO of Citizens for Affordable Energy. I can`t wait for tomorrow night because I think the first time you were on my radio show, you said, Glenn, I admire -- how was it you said? You admire the fact that you just let it all hang out.

JOHN HOFMEISTER, FORMER PRESIDENT, SHELL OIL: I think I said I admire your sharp tongue and I hope to sharpen mine.

BECK: Yeah. Have you been filing it down?

HOFMEISTER: I have.

BECK: Good, that`s tomorrow. Let me start with this last story. What is the problem with this fuel? Why haven`t we heard about it? The Air Force is using it. Sounds like great technology. What the hell is going on?

HOFMEISTER: I think the people in the industry have been watching this for quite some time. My previous company was very involved in Department of Defense discussions about the same kind of technology, of coal to liquids or biofuel to liquids. There are many things we can do, but the hasn`t yet reached public knowledge because it`s still somewhat experimental and it`s also still very expensive.

BECK: But from what I understand, it`s half the price of what a barrel of oil is now.

HOFMEISTER: Well, I think -- I haven`t heard that number.

BECK: I believe that`s what our last guest said to one of our producers off the air.

HOFMEISTER: OK, well, that may be in those controlled conditions. If we take it to scale, we`re going to have to put some serious capital as a country into this kind of new fuel production.

BECK: But here is what I don`t understand. John, how come we don`t let the free market system work this out? You know, I don`t know if you have read much about the Great Depression, but we were in a depression much longer than the rest of the world because government kept trying out these new programs. And industry didn`t know if they could trust the government at all. And I swear to you, I think that`s one of the big problems. You guys are afraid -- wait a minute, if I do something, are you going to change the rules? Are you going to say this is bad now? Are you going to tax the snot out of me? Why don`t we just give government the hell out of our way?

HOFMEISTER: Well, it`s not that simple. Obviously, regulatory policies being the way they are, policymakers in Washington believe they have a role. But here`s the real issue for industry. This zig-zag notion of we go this way with one party and we go this way with another party, that is driving the industry crazy. And here is what I would call it and I`ll say more about it tomorrow. The industry lives on something called energy time. The government loves on something called political time.

BECK: Yeah.

HOFMEISTER: Political time is two years, four years, or six years. You can`t run an energy company on two-year cycles.

BECK: This one came in from Daniel Silva. This is a pitchfork here and I hope to get one from you tomorrow. You can bring it on by. I run on pitchfork time. Solve the problem, Washington, or we`ll get the pitchforks and we`ll find some people who will solve the problem. I`m so frustrated with the people in Washington. And that`s why I can`t wait for you tomorrow, for the full hour, because I think you`re as frustrated as the American people are. And it`s about time they hear the actual truth.

HOFMEISTER: That`s why I started a not for profit company. There`s nothing in it for me, Citizens for Affordable Energy. I`m putting my own money into it for now. I`m hoping to get capital from others soon. The whole point is to get Americans excited, get Americans interested and get Americans educated on closing the information gap so we can blow away the disinformation or the misinformation we`re getting from too many government officials.

BECK: America, you`re going to hear a conversation tomorrow you won`t hear any place else. A full hour with ex-oil executive John Hofmeister. Don`t miss it. When it comes to energy and everything else in this country, I swear to you, we need more of these guys. We need a leader. That`s what we need, we need a leader. This morning on my radio program, I spoke to one of those guys who wants that job, Republican John McCain, about energy.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BECK: Senator John McCain is with me. How are you, sir?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, Glenn, you rascal. How are you?

BECK: I`m very good. Listen, Nancy Pelosi is saying, you know, we`re not going to drill. But she`s telling the Democrats if you are in trouble in your own district, you go ahead and say, well, I want to drill. I`m for that. These guys are lying to the American people about what their real intentions are.

MCCAIN: The cynicism is justified. Look, the thing that Americans are mad about, and my Republican friends led my John Boehner in the House are saying, look, allow a vote. Allow a vote. Overwhelming majority of Americans want to drill offshore, so allow a vote on it. Let`s let the democratic -- instead, they shut down and go on a five-week vacation. A five-week vacation while Americans are paying $4 a gallon of gas. You can`t make it up. When it`s president, I`m going to call them back into session and say stay there until you get something done for a change.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

BECK: By the way, you can get the full interview at glennbeck.com. We talked about nuclear energy and global warming and everything else.

When we come back, I`ll be joined by one of John McCain`s potential vice presidential contenders. Could it be Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.

And coming up a little later on in the program, Megachurch Pastor Rick Warren, he has gone and done the impossible, he is bringing people together, Barack Obama and John McCain, first time in his upcoming compassion and leadership forum. He`s coming up at the bottom of the hour. He`s got a lot to say that you`ve got to hear.

Plus an American border guard agent held by gunpoint by the Mexican army on our side of the border. Simple misunderstanding. Of course it is. Grab the Scotch. You`re going to need it when you hear the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: OK. If you watch this show for more than ten minutes, you know, A, I`m a loud mouth, B, I have more chins than -- and C, I`m a conservative. And this is the first time I don`t have a candidate. For the first time in my life, I don`t have a guy that`s like, yeah, that`s my guy. Big rumor out today is that the Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty is on John McCain`s short list. Let`s ask him. He`s here. Governor, how are you, sir?

GOV. TIM PAWLENTY, (R) MN: I`m doing good, Glenn. Thanks for having me on the show.

BECK: Normally, I don`t trust people in politics in Minnesota.

PAWLENTY: Why would that be?

BECK: I don`t know. We should ask Al Franken. Let me start here. I don`t really know you, I don`t know anything about you. People say you`re great. You`re a conservative. You are one of the key members of the future of the Republican Party. So I want to see what that means. But first, tell me one thing you think the Republicans just suck at.

PAWLENTY: Well .

BECK: I want to see how honest you are.

PAWLENTY: You`re good. I don`t think we`re doing a very good job reaching out and attracting the support of young people right now. And that`s part of because we need to freshen up the party. Doesn`t mean we dilute our values or change our values, we`ve just got to do a better job of making sure we translate them into kind of the modern generation.

BECK: But how do you do that? I saw that you said we need to be more Sam`s Club than country club. I don`t even know what that means.

PAWLENTY: I can tell you. I can tell you quickly.

BECK: Hang on just a second. Take it here. The Republicans I know, or the ones that are, you know, coming for the pitchforks because they feel the Republicans have betrayed them, they`re wearing the flannel shirts. The real Republicans, they`re wearing the flannel shirts, they`re the ones on the tractors, they`re the ones that are blue-collars now. They`re not the country club people. They`re liberal elite Democrats.

PAWLENTY: There`s a message in that for republicans. If you look at Wal-Mart and Sam`s Club and Costco, people go there because they don`t have money to spend or much more money to spend, and they want to get good value. How about going back to limited affective government and having government live within its means like the person in the flannel shirt or just like the person who is trying to make their family budget. And Republicans have lost their way a little bit on that.

BECK: A little bit?

PAWLENTY: Start with living within your means. How about that for a Sam`s Club proposition?

BECK: Hang on a second. I want to have that moment for a second. You say it like you mean it. I`m going to assume right now you do. Let me just run down a couple things. Second Amendment.

PAWLENTY: I`m a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and have been supported in al my elections by the NRA and I`m the only governor in the country to sign the concealed carry legislation twice. Once after the court threw it out and once before.

BECK: OK. We could start dating. I mean, I assume you`re straight. I`m straight and married. Not that it matters, but we could start dating any time now. Universal anything, for or against?

PAWLENTY: I like individual approaches to things, not universal approaches.

BECK: How do you view the Constitution? Is it a living document or something that is divinely inspired and these truths are self-evident and remain self-evident?

PAWLENTY: The latter, and I try to appoint judges who interpret the law as written rather than making it up on the back of a napkin.

BECK: I swear to you, I think I love you. Do the rich pay their fair share?

PAWLENTY: If you look at the high wage earners in this country they pay an overwhelming share of the tax revenues. So you have to put it in context. You have a progressive tax system in this country and the rich pay the vast majority of the tax revenues in the country.

BECK: They`re talking now the GM, Ford, Chrysler they may go under. I asked John McCain this question. I`m not going to tell you what he told me this morning before I hear your answer. Are they too big to fail? Do they need to bail out? If they would fail, would you bail them out? What is your answer?

PAWLENTY: I don`t think you can be in the business of bailing out every large company that is in trouble. We`d be bailing out the airlines, we`d be bailing out lots of other companies. I think the answer is to have those companies be competitive and compete in a world marketplace. I do like John McCain`s ideas for some tax credits for people who purchase next generation vehicles, in terms of low emissions and fuel efficiency and R&D money for things like basic research and next generation battery technology for the cars. Some of that could be done or offered for R&D, tax credits and help.

But not bailing them out.

BECK: I have to tell you, governor. I`m going to start taking a look at your record.

PAWLENTY: There are some things in there you might not like.

BECK: I don`t need to like everything.

PAWLENTY: Overall, Glenn, I`m a mainstream conservative. I`ve had a few stumbles along the way on a couple of policy things. Overall, I think you would say I have a conservative record.

BECK: All I want is someone who means what they say and say what that means. If you`re for universal stuff, if you`re for giving stuff away, if you`re for redistribution of wealth, that`s fine. Just tell me that. Don`t be ashamed of it. If you`re not, tell me that and don`t be ashamed of it. I just want to know where people stand. That`s all I`m asking for, someone I can trust in office.

PAWLENTY: You can`t have a high functioning democracy unless you have a well-informed citizenry, and you can`t have that if the politicians don`t make their positions known clearly.

BECK: I swear to you, I`ll even buy you dinner. Governor, thanks a lot.

PAWLENTY: When you come to Minneapolis for the convention send some of that good .

BECK: I don`t think I`m coming. No. I don`t think they like me in Minneapolis.

PAWLENTY: I know Senator McCain is going to give us a Supreme Court that is conservative, he is going to win the war, he is going to hold down spending and more, but those three things alone should get you excited, Mr. Beck.

BECK: I`m going to have to charge you for that as a campaign commercial. Governor, thanks a lot.

PAWLENTY: Thank you.

BECK: Reminder, arguments against the idiots. It`s a new series found only in my free e-mail newsletter. It has all the information you need to set your friends straight on the issues. We`re featuring the argument from the altruistic plant savers, the planet is melting if we don`t act now, our cities will be underwater. Get it for free at glennbeck.com

Coming up, we continue the conversation on energy and politics. Our token liberal stops by to tell us why both of the candidates have it wrong. "The Real Story" is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Some people who watch this show say that`s a crazy conservative with a complete lack of objectivity that Glenn Beck. And those people would be absolutely right. However, some of my best friends are liberals. One of them I actually asked to share his woefully misguided views on the candidates` energy plans since we`ve been talking about that here lately. Bryan Whitman, who is a radio talk show host in Los Angeles. I believe you`re the only one left in Los Angeles that actually still speaks English.

BRYAN WHITMAN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I speak English. I speak it fluently. Fluently is really the key. Let me say something before we get to the energy policy. And by the way, that works, to fully inflate your tires does work. You stop it. Don`t take it from this liberal nut on cable news. Look at "Time" magazine, it works. Call the auto club. It works. If you fully inflate your tires, you use less gas.

BECK: Here`s what you need to do. Seventy percent of people already do this. What you need to do is read that in "Time" magazine and then read my response to "Time" magazine at cnn.com tomorrow. I took the "Time" magazine thing apart.

WHITMAN: All right. I`ll be looking for it.

BECK: The gas prices are about what $1,200 there in Los Angeles?

WHITMAN: They`re coming down, and it makes me furious.

BECK: Why?

WHITMAN: It makes me furious that they`re coming down. There`s nothing as an Angeleno that makes me happier than $4 or $5 gasoline because it clears the freeways and I can get to the movie theater in five minutes. I lobby here and now, $12 a gallon. When the prices started coming down, I was like, damn it behind the wheel, road rage.

BECK: Nothing to do with the planet?

WHITMAN: God, no. No, God no. It has nothing to do with the planet. It has to do with me getting to the movie theater in less than 10 minutes on a Saturday. Is that too much to ask for?

BECK: No. It`s really not. I know you were a Hillary supporter for long time. Can you pull the lever for Obama or John McCain, either one of them?

WHITMAN: I`m working. I have lever issues. I`m working on the prospect of pulling the lever for Senator Obama. I`m not there yet. I`m a pretty independent-minded Democrat. I like John McCain. I liked him better eight years ago.

BECK: Let me do this. How about this, because I think that the -- you know, they`re all trying to out-minority each other, and I`m going to put a woman on the ticket with me. You know, and I`ll raise you. I`ll see your woman and raise you one half-Indian from the south.

WHITMAN: Somebody needs to think about a Martian on the ticket. The first guy to put a Martian on the ticket.

BECK: How about if you put Joe Lieberman on the ticket with McCain.

WHITMAN: That would be so exciting. So many people would be energized by Joe.

BECK: It would be great.

WHITMAN: It would be great.

It would be me in Tahiti doing the program from Tahiti. I`m so excited about it. Lieberman is the kind of guy, and that`s the kind of candidate that might mix this up a little bit.

BECK: Speaking of mixed up, have you thought about voting for Cynthia McKinney.

WHITMAN: She`s a nut, in my opinion.

BECK: No.

WHITMAN: I was watching one of the cable stations that doesn`t run commercials because who would buy it? So I am watching her and I`m going, no way. This, what I`m looking at, cannot be a candidate in all 50 states. She is.

BECK: Bryan, enjoy the movie. We`ll see you later. All right.

Best selling author megachurch pastor Rick Warren stops by. Do not miss this. You have to hear what he says in "The Real Story," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, as if illegal aliens and drug cartels weren`t enough for our border agents to deal with now they`re facing a new threat; the Mexican army.

If you thought we needed a fence before, I have a story that will have blood shooting out of your eyes. You`ll be digging post holes by the end of the program. We`ll give that story to you here in just a second.

But first, without exaggeration, Pastor Rick Warren, one of the most influential spiritual leaders in the country today. In addition to his incredible book, "The Purpose-Driven Life," he is constantly traveling the world; he is always learning, teaching and inspiring other people.

I recently had a chance to speak with him about the presidential politics and the presidential campaign. How do you know who to vote for? How do you know who to believe? I spoke to him in Mexico City where he`s attending a international aids conference.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Compassion in leadership is the name of this conference. How does the government -- what role does the government have in helping people find compassion?

PASTOR RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: I think many times the role of the government is to get out of the way and allow the grass roots people to do it. Right now, if you were to stop all of the compassion and goodwill being done by churches and NGOs at the community levels. If all of the food services and the helping and the caring and the delivering of services to the community that is done by churches in the world were stopped today, America would probably go broke in two or three months.

BECK: Right.

WARREN: We couldn`t have paid for all of the volunteer service. Hundreds of millions of people volunteer through their house of worship, through their church every single week, and they do it out of love.

The thing today that we need is we need more amateurs and fewer professionals. Let me explain that. The word amateur comes from the word amor like amore -- that`s amore. It comes out of love; you do it out of love.

And these hundreds of millions of people who serve their communities through their churches are doing it not because they`re paid. They`re doing it because they love. And we just need to keep the government from interfering with what they`re doing.

BECK: The other part of it is leadership. How do you judge leadership in a candidate?

WARREN: You know, Glenn, one of the things I`m going to do in this forum is ask questions that nobody else is asking. Typically in the debates and the town halls, the questions tend to revolve around the hot button political issues like the border, the war, the price of gas, health care and things like that.

These tend to be short-term issues. They`re important, but they`re short term. And in the long-term scheme of things, like the next 100 years and the direction of America, the presidency has far more important issues that need to be dealt with.

For instance, the primary role of the president is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. And yet I have never heard anybody ask a candidate what is your view of the constitution?

Do you view it as a granite block where the truth has been chiseled and we judge ourselves by that immovable document? Or do you think it is, quote "living document" that could be reinterpreted with every generation?

What a candidate believes about that issue says more about the future of America than what they think about where the price of oil should be.

BECK: You know, I was going to say you should run for president. I think I would vote for you. You should run for president but that would discredit you. Holy cow.

WARREN: You know, I would never step down from being a pastor to a position of less influence.

BECK: Do you believe that -- do you believe that there are some occasions where you should flip-flop? There are times that I hear these candidates speak, and you know, they`ll say, well, I believe this. And there`s been a change.

What I want to know is; what is the pivot point? What made you change? And if a man can`t tell you what color the walls were in the room when he changed his minds, he didn`t really change his mind. Because when you have a giant change like that, it comes from someplace deep within.

How do you -- how do you get candidates? How are we supposed to judge who is lying to us and who is telling us the truth?

WARREN: Oh yes. First place, I would say, in changing, all change and not flip-flop. A lot of change is growth. And it takes a mature leader to say, you know what? I was wrong. And now under further information, I know better than that.

That`s what we don`t have is hearing people with the humility to say, I was wrong. Now I believe this. We have people saying, I didn`t really say that. And they`re trying to cover it up and have it both ways.

You can`t do that. America loves humility. And when a person says, you know what? Having thought it over, I think this is the best solution now. That is endearing to the public.

The second thing I would say is that everybody who is a public speaker, including the candidates, should be given what I call a 5 percent grace factor because if you`re in the public eye, periodically, you just say something dumb. Everybody does. I do and everybody else.

Sometimes you say stuff you don`t mean, you don`t think, you don`t even believe, but because we have this documentality of somebody said it and then we force you into defending it, then you can`t say, I didn`t really mean that. We should give some of these guys a chance to say, well, on second thought, that`s not a good idea.

BECK: The other thing that bothers me and I think bothers most Americans is -- you know what I could care less about these parties. I don`t care if it`s a donkey or an elephant, I really don`t care.

Stop making it about left and right. Start making it about right and wrong. Yet these parties have to keep us separated to gain power. How do we change that as individuals? Americans feel powerless right now. How do we change that?

WARREN: You know, the only people who benefit from partisanship are the partisans. And there are many people who actually make a living out of keeping us from getting together.

When I talk to people on both sides -- and I have friends who are Republicans and friends who are Democrats. They`re often much more willing to work together than a lot of times people around them who make their career through division and divisiveness.

So what Americans are going to have to do is just insist, we`re not going to put up with this anymore. I think a lot of people are tired of the cattiness, the instability of our civilization. We have become quite rude.

And what we need to do is we need to learn how to disagree without demonizing each other. One of the beauties about the American system of government is nobody gets it right all the time. Everybody has a say. We live in a country where pluralism allows us to have a say. I don`t win every time, nobody else wins every time.

That`s the good news, if we could learn to get along, Glenn, I am really worried about this because I have been in many countries where I have seen political differences turn into political hatred and see political hatred turn into demonizing the neighbor. And then you have genocide.

BECK: You know, Rick, we have been trying to get you on for quite some time. I appreciate every moment you spent with us. When you`re in New York, we would love to have you on for a full hour. You`re a brilliant man with an awful lot that America needs to hear. Thank you very much.

Back in just a minute.

RICHELLE CAREY, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I`m Richelle Carey. This is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

We have the 911 call of that Atlanta woman who died while waiting for an ambulance. You can hear Darlene Dukes say Wales Drive, and the dispatcher repeating it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DARLENE DUKES, DYING WOMAN: 602 Wales Drive.

911 DISPATCHER: 602 Wales Drive?

DUKES: Yes.

911 DISPATCHER: Hold on, ma`am.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAREY: An ambulance was sent to Wells Street 27 miles away. It took about an hour for another one to arrive from the fire station only five minutes from her home. Dukes died from a blood clot in her lungs. The dispatcher was fired.

Crime scene investigators returning to Caylee Anthony`s Florida home Thursday and left with a bag of evidence. Divers will search waterways near the home Friday.

And Brett Favre is no longer a Green Bay Packer after coming out of a brief retirement, that is. The quarterback was traded to the New York Jets Wednesday. Favre has been a Packer since 1992.

I`m Richelle Carey.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Back in the late 1800s, the U.S. used an executive order to create the Tahono Udam (ph) Indian reservation; it`s in southern Arizona, an isolated little place right down along the border. It`s a place where most of the tribe members are farmers. It`s also a place where the average income today is $8,000 a year.

Well, it was on this reservation, a chunk of land that has been overwhelmed by illegal aliens, drug trafficking, human smuggling, that something extraordinary happened over this last weekend.

It was Sunday morning, about 2:00 in the morning. A U.S. border patrol agent was driving along the dirt border road, looking for fresh foot prints. A barb wire fence runs along some of the reservation and steel vehicle barriers block crossing in areas, but mostly, it`s just wide open terrain. It`s a feature that has made this a very popular crossing spot for illegal aliens.

As our U.S. border patrol agent is driving slowly, using his headlights to search for footprints, he was confronted by four men. They were wearing desert camouflage and each carrying an assault rifle. The men took aim, aimed their rifles at our agent, and then screamed for him to stop.

The agent, heart beating through his chest, yelled back, identifying himself in English, then again in Spanish. He said I am a U.S. agent. You`re on U.S. soil.

Well, they didn`t move. It was four against one. They didn`t drop their guns. Realizing that he was out numbered and outgunned, the agent slowly reached down and radioed for backup.

Four long minutes later, headlights broke through the horizon; the backup was coming. The four men saw the head lights, lowered their guns, and then ran back across the border to Mexico. The men -- Mexican army soldiers.

In a world where logic and common sense still ruled, holding a U.S. agent at gun point on American soil would be an act of war. Unfortunately, this isn`t the first time this has happened. Not even close.

There have been 200 of these situations since 1996, but this is the 43rd confirmed incident just like this in less than a year. You thing think things are out of control?

The question is, what has our government done in response? Nothing. They have made excuses.

Since last Sunday, the State Department has come out and they said this latest incident was just, quote, "a momentary misunderstanding as to the exact location of the U.S.-Mexican border. Really?

You know what Washington, I have a crazy idea. You want to make sure people know what side of the border they`re on? Build a fence.

But no, that would actually help protect our country and our border agents. And of course, we know this administration and those in Congress think the best way to keep those agents safe is to put them safely behind bars in prison.

Brandon Judd, he is the vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 2544.

Brandon, there`s no way that you don`t know where you are on this border. There are giant -- almost like Washington monument -- markers all up and down this area, right?

BRANDON JUDD, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL LOCAL 2544: That is correct. Border patrol agents know where they`re at. Mexican military knows where they`re at. Everybody knows where they`re at on the border.

BECK: This is not as much a misunderstanding as it is a new tactic. It`s a diversion, isn`t it in?

JUDD: It is. We believe that the reason that they came across was to have the agent call for back-up, to move agents from other areas to possibly run either illegal aliens or narcotics through another area that has now been vacated because they created an incident in which an agent needed backup.

BECK: Right. And we have been hearing reports on this. Nobody is reporting it; nobody is talking about it. Nobody is doing anything about it. What it is, is the Mexican army that we are now helping fund, have actually become guards for the cartels and the human smugglers as well.

JUDD: That is correct.

BECK: Is there -- well, two questions. One, if we would have done this on their side, if we would have went, oh, my gosh. I just didn`t know what side of the border we were on, what would have happened to our border patrol?

JUDD: We would have been taken into custody. Our weapons would have been removed. And we would have had to wait until somebody came got us from the United States government. There wouldn`t have been a question.

BECK: Why hasn`t this happened now? We have had an increase of this, 135 percent increase of this kind of stuff going on. Why didn`t we do that?

JUDD: Well, unfortunately, we were outgunned. That`s what it simply comes down to. What would have normally happened is the agent would have called the supervisor had the agent had control of the situation, which he did not.

He would have called the supervisor and the supervisor would have made the decision on what to do with the Mexican military, but unfortunately, like I said, he was outgunned. They were pointing guns at him. He didn`t have his weapon out.

And he was waiting for backup. When the backup got there, the Mexican military went right back into Mexico where we can`t do anything with them.

BECK: Brandon, let me ask for your opinion on this. If we weren`t outgunned, if there happened to be four/four, and they threatened us and we were on our own soil and we would have shot them, do you think the border agents would still be walking away free today or would they be in jail or would they be, you know, strung up a flag pole someplace?

JUDD: Well, we have seen what`s happened in the past, and we know what would have happened. No, if the agents would have shot at the Mexican military, obviously, a huge investigation would have ensued, and the questions would have all been on the agents and not the Mexican military. Unfortunately, that`s been --

BECK: Is there anybody on our side, Brandon? I`m sorry to interrupt. Is there anybody on our side? You guys, I can`t imagine what morale is like.

You see these ads all the time: Be a border guard. Why? Why would I be a border guard?

JUDD: Well, I would love to think that the American public is on our side. I do know that we have some good people who are fighting against the government in upper management right now who are trying to make things better for border patrol agents and make it frankly safer for the United States citizens who we`re sworn to protect.

I hope that the public is on our side and I hope that the public realizes what we do and how tough of a job we have.

BECK: You know, I tell you, Brandon, the American people are on your side. And you are just another branch of the service when people say support our troops, make sure you mean the border guards as well. You guys are living in a dangerous situation, and I think our government is treating you guys like garbage and it`s reprehensible.

Thank you very much for all your hard work. We`ll talk to you again.

While border agents Jose Compean and Nacho Ramos are likely going to sit in jail for a decade now, the illegal alien drug smuggle who they shot -- this is the guy they shot at. He was sentenced yesterday.

He got nine years. Let me do some quick math here. Gee, that`s less time than our own agents got.

Next month in "Fusion" magazine, I have got interviews from the jailhouse with Jose Compean. You`re going to hear his side of story on what really happened that day along with his take on whether this administration has sold this country`s sovereignty out.

By the way, I wanted to bring it to you on television; couldn`t. I wanted to bring it to you on radio, wouldn`t let me in for his safely. I could bring a pencil into the jailhouse.

You`ll get that interview in "Fusion" magazine. Sign up now for "Fusion" right now at glennbeck.com. We`ll be back in a minute.

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BECK: Well, that evil military tribunal. You know the one we were told was just the way to guarantee convictions for supposed terrorists. I mean these terrorists are really sugar and spice and everything nice. We just want to kill them.

Well, we just got through with the Osama bin Laden driver trial. And he was acquitted of the conspiracy charges. It`s weird, isn`t it? I thought that we created these things so that we could just send innocent Muslims to death for no reason whatsoever about. He was convicted of aiding terrorism, now he faces 30 years if U.S. prosecutors get their way.

The next completely innocent freedom fighter to be tried is the one and only Brillo back himself, the very, very, very, very, very, very strangely hairy Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. You know the one that Rosie O`Donnell loves so much. He`s not facing 30 years, he`s facing the death penalty. Although, I don`t know if you noticed in the picture, he is a little overweight. Are we sure he`s not too fat to be executed?

I mean that`s what we learned this week from the 5 foot 7, 267-pound Richard Couey; rhymes with gooey. He`s an Ohio death row inmate that is scheduled to die but his lawyer says he`s too fat. Oh, I would like more, please.

I may or may not have proposed earlier this week that we put him on a diet so we could kill him but that was wrong. We could do it so much faster if we used liposuction. I`m willing to take my vacuum cleaner and jam it into his stomach. I just want to help out.

How is this guy getting fatter in prison? I mean do we have a food delivery system at the penitentiary? Have they built a new Starbucks? Or Dunkin` Donuts in the cell block? That`s great.

Maybe I`m being a little flip in here. But I keep thinking about that killing and raping instead of his nutritional needs. His attorneys say that he`s on a drug, you know, for migraine headaches and that could affect the execution process.

Oh, now we`re making sure the guy who raped and killed two young women doesn`t have any headaches, oh, yeah, I would hate for that to on happen. Oh my head hurts so much. Don`t you have anything to take my pain away? Yes.

Yes, I -- I may be able to arrange a little something like that and of course it`s not go to be Tylenol. I just hope he`s not sore from the antiquated prison furniture. Can we get the man a massage, please? How about a manicure and pedicure? Those concrete floors can be brutal on your feet. I just hope that his cuticles are going to be okay, before we kill him.

Don`t forget, ongoing e-mail newsletter "Serious Arguments with Idiots." Now you will have all of the facts so you can refute the idiots.

From New York, good night, America.

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