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Glenn Beck

Life on Campus: Problems and Solutions

Aired August 22, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Hello, America.

Tonight a full hour of something quite different. We`re going to concentrate on education in America. What is it like to go to a university today? I didn`t go to college. My wife did. And it`s really nothing like it was when she went to college. Things have changed. There is sex. Morals are hard to find, political correctness like you can`t believe. And if you`re a conservative, do you voice your views? Or do you keep them to yourself?

Tonight, it`s going to be an hour of frank questions, frank answers. Honest, possibly a little uncomfortable. But it`s something that everybody, every parent should see.

I`m going to focus on two things. First, the problem, and then the solution. For a full hour of honest questions and very frank answers.

We were just talking before we went on the air that everybody`s kind of a little uncomfortable. They don`t know exactly how to move on television. Let me just tell you something. This is the most uncomfortable room I`ve ever been in. I didn`t go to college. I`m a self- educated guy. My mom always said, "Make sure you`re not the smartest person in the room." Holy cow, I think I`m outgunned here.

But we want to talk a little bit about the problems in our university system. And also, the solutions. Because all of you are leaders in changing the system.

But I have to tell you, Professor George gave me a book, "I am Charlotte Simmons." Read that. If you`re sending your kids, especially your daughter, to college, you`ll lock her in the basement.

It was the most frightening thing I had ever seen, because it seems to me that sex on campus, anything goes. And it`s -- there`s not anything about love or commitment at all anymore. Right or wrong?

CASSANDRA DEBENEDETTO, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY GRADUATE: I would say for the most part, that`s right. There`s -- you know, in the dating culture right now, there really isn`t any sort of idea of, you know, long-term what this looks like. It is all about, you know, the here and now, what feels good, you know, making those types of decisions.

But I think kind of commenting off the Charlotte Simmons culture, yes, that the social life is -- you know, has this very big influence, this hook-up culture, anything goes culture.

But I think what a lot of parents don`t understand, and a lot of students going into college, is that, you know, oftentimes these university programs, you know, abet that situation, as well. And so, you know, a lot of us have been working on, you know, confronting those programs, as well.

So like freshman orientation programs. Here at Princeton, there`s one called Sex on Saturday Night. And it received some press for it, too. And so you know, I know some students were aware of that coming into Princeton but...

BECK: What is it?

DEBENEDETTO: It`s...

JONATHAN HWANG, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY STUDENT: It`s a place designed for freshmen. It`s a very casual place. It`s spoken to freshmen as something fun to watch, something that will hold their attention. And it`s the university`s way of remaining neutral while presenting the dangers of date rape and safe sex and so on.

BECK: That makes -- that makes me feel totally comfortable sending my daughter to school.

DANIEL MARK, GRADUATE STUDENT, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: The terrible thing is that if a play like that shows the university recognizes the dangers in this, there are problems that come out of the hook-up culture out of the university. But the university has no resources for dealing with that. So they don`t take a position on right or wrong. There`s no -- not only is there no attempt to teach people to be ethical in their sexual lives, there`s opposition to that. Someone who does that is seen as close- minded or sheltered.

And so all they can do is try to minimize the consequences. Well, they`re going to say wear a condom. Do whatever you want.

BECK: Do you feel comfortable at all speaking out about this? I have a friend whose son is going to Columbia, and he`s very conservative. And I don`t remember what it was. It`s, you know -- they handed out cards with pink on it or something. And he had to put it in his window if it was a safe place for, you know, people that are making different choices.

And he said it wasn`t really about, you`re saying this is a safe place. It was more of a marker, if you didn`t have it in your window of, you`re a hatemonger. Do you find that?

MARK: As an undergraduate coming into contact with Gay Jeans Day. It`s a day for everyone who supports the homosexual lifestyle to wear jeans in support. And so you`ve got -- everybody is just college kids, putting on a pair of jeans in the morning. That`s what do you when you`re in college. And then they go out, until they find out it`s Gay Jeans Day. Do I go back and change?

ROBERT GEORGE, MCCORMICK PROFESSOR OF JURISPRUDENCE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: What`s impressive about the students here at Princeton is that so many students have been involved in actively opposing the hook-up culture. In making the argument based on philosophical and ethical premises, on sociological information, about just how damaging, how wounding the hook-up culture is.

Promiscuity is not a good way to live. It`s not a healthy way to live. It`s not a morally healthy way to live. And the students here have been willing to make that argument. Make that argument, not only to their fellow students but to the administration.

Students here have gone to the administration and said, look, the Sex on Saturday night program is promoting the hook-up culture. It`s promoting an ideology of promiscuity. If the university really going to be faithful to its claim to be neutral on these matters, then it should present competing arguments for and against promiscuity...

BECK: Well, what is...

GEORGE: ... instead of just letting one side, the pro-promiscuity side have the stage.

BECK: Well, what is -- tell me about the play. What is the premise of the play?

DEBENEDETTO: Well, it has the primary purpose of educating against alcohol abuse and date rape. But in the process of doing that, it shows a variety of different relationships you can come across, you know, at your time, at a university.

So it has your typical, you know, senior guy seeks out freshman girl, gets her into a closet, and she`s drunk, and so there`s a date rape situation. And then it has, you know, the stalker guy. And it has the gay couple and the gay kiss. And then you have a couple making out on stage for, you know, ten minutes. A lot of crude jokes, a lot of crude language. And so...

BECK: Call me, you know, stupid or old-fashioned here but...

GEORGE: How about old-fashioned?

BECK: Why not just say, these things aren`t tolerated? There`s an idea.

GEORGE: If you say these things aren`t tolerated, though, you`re not doing other thing that the play has historically done. Now, I have to say that Princeton administration officials -- Princeton university officials have been working with critics of the play, student critics of the play, to try to make it fairer.

But the problem with the play historically is, A, students are required to attend it. This is mandatory.

BECK: And it`s not...

GEORGE: No freedom. Even if you`re a Muslim young woman who is so concerned with modesty that she covers her arms to her wrist. She is still required to go and hear this language and to see the making out on stage and to be subjected to these crudities.

Now the problem is historically, it`s been used to promote an ideology of sexual liberalism or sexual liberation or the promiscuity culture or the hook-up culture. And it`s not -- soft (ph) to that. And the administration, to its credit, is working with students to improve it.

STEFAN MCDANIEL, 2008 GRADUATE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: I wouldn`t say that it exactly promotes it. It is just disturbing, the extent to which it assume its normalness.

GEORGE: Yes. It sets this is what`s normative and normal. If you want to be a normal regular person, if you want to fit in, here`s how you behave.

HWANG: Talking to a freshman, it`s very damaging. Oh, this is what campus life is. This is expected of me.

MARK: It`s pretty hard to dissent, because I remember I was with some friends. We saw there was a commercial on TV for the pill. And the teenage girl in the commercials were like, "And it also helps with your acne." And I kind of casually just remarked, acne seems to be trivializing something that should be, you know, part of an important decision.

And especially the women in the room were horrified that I would express such a, I guess, conventional opinion. I was completely caught off guard that I was coming out of, you know, such a traditional world view that I would think the pill should be about more than just your acne.

BECK: I don`t know if it`s like this at Princeton. But I understand that there are some dorms where one floor is for women. One floor is for men, but -- but it`s -- you can to go one dorm or another. It doesn`t matter.

MARK: It`s not regulated. Guys and girls can move into the same room if they`re not under official university permission, but nobody`s stopping anyone from dragging the extra bed in and living there for the whole year.

DEBENEDETTO: In one of the choices, the bathrooms are actually on the same floor. So you can still, you know, see guys in their towels or other things like that.

BECK: Or other things like that.

Somebody -- we were talking before we got here. What was the -- what was the isle, the sex-ile? I had never heard that before. And my producers were like, I kind of heard this. I don`t even know if I saw this on the TV. What is sex aisle?

HWANG: It`s not an isle of sex.

MCDANIEL: It`s when two or more people in a room, and one of them wants to have sex, so they discreetly or indiscreetly say don`t come in or get out, basically. So you`re, you know -- you have to go to the library for the evening.

HWANG: Which is better than the alternative of to watch.

GEORGE: Throwing your roommate out so you can bring in your sex partner and -- yes.

How traditional that they want privacy for this.

BECK: The -- you guys also have something where you`re -- where you`re given disease dolls?

GEORGE: Only sexually transmitted disease dolls. Only sexually transmitted diseases.

BECK: Oh, good. Good.

HWANG: Preventative health every year, you get flu shots, you get all sorts of health information.

MARK: Condoms.

HWANG: Condoms. They`re just distributing condoms freely. And one of the activities at one of the booths is a sex trivia game. And if you win, you get a prize. And one of the prizes is these plush sexually- transmitted disease toys, you know. Stuffed animals. They`re cute. They have happy faces on them.

BECK: Where do you find those?

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE: Who`s going there to buy them? Who found them in the first place?

BECK: Hey, look. It`s gonorrhea. The -- Valentine`s Day must be an interesting...

MARK: Not the traditional. Last time for casual sex before you break up.

HWANG: Valentine`s Day, the university has a big push to encourage students to go see the RCAs, the RA`s, the residential advisers or the university of health services to pick up condoms or other safe-sex materials.

BECK: Is anybody pushing the brakes from the university level? Is anybody pushing the brakes and saying anything like, "This is wrong"?

HWANG: No. They`re encouraging it.

GEORGE: This much, I think, has to be said on behalf of at least some university officials. I think that there are some university officials, important university officials -- in fact, I more than think, I know -- who have caught on to the fact that we`ve got a bad scene here. And it`s a bad scene at lots of other universities. But we got it here at Princeton, too. And it`s one in which students feel pressured to participate in the promiscuity culture in order to get along.

There are members, senior members of the administration who are worried, especially, that young women are feeling the pressure to conform to the promiscuity notion. And they want to do something about it. They don`t want students to be pressured into it. And, you know, I have a lot of respect for them for that. And I think we should work with them. And I know students are working with them to improve that situation.

BECK: All right. When we come back, I want to talk a little bit about the pressure. I want to talk about political correctness and the pressure of just being yourself. Anything goes, except maybe being conservative. Coming up.

GRAPHIC: The Hook-Up Culture. What percent of college girls admit to feeling regret after hooking up?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAPHIC: The Hook-Up Culture. What percent of college girls admit to feeling regret after hooking up?

Ninety-one percent of girls admit to having feelings of regret after hooking up.

BECK: Back with a full hour of -- well, first, freak out parents. Your kids are going away to a land you never, ever even imagined they would go into. And then the second half is going to be calm down, this is how your kids can navigate. It is a different world than -- if you`re my age, what it was like. It -- was college like what it is today when you were going to college?

GEORGE: Not yet. Not yet. I mean, we had begun to see the sexual...

BECK: You said to me...

GEORGE: ... expanding, but...

BECK: You said to me, we talked about my kids going to college. And I said one of my daughters is going to college. And you took me aside, and you grabbed my arm and you said, "You have to prepare your daughter. Because it`s not good."

That tended to freak me out.

GEORGE: OK. Glad it worked.

BECK: And it seems the more I look into it, it seem like there is no right and wrong. There`s no moral -- there is no judgment on -- nobody is stepping in.

MARK: A really good example of that is that, with the university of alcohol policy, I saw a copy of a new contract they have students sign if they want to have parties. They have to say, "Well, we`ll serve food, e.g., sandwiches and pizza, e.g., not pretzels and chips." Things like, you know, they regulate how much nonalcoholic beverage you have to swerve with the alcoholic beverage, the maximum number of people.

But what`s going on here is, like -- like with the sex on a Saturday night, the university sees that there`s a problem, and they want to do something about the problem. They know about all the bad behavior, but they`ve completely abandoned their role of forming the students and offering them ways to make judgments. And so, without any ability to say right or wrong, they can only regulate.

BECK: Isn`t there -- isn`t there -- wouldn`t it be a relief if somebody would say, "You know what? No booze. I`m sorry. You`ve got a by the..."

MARK: The university of administration.

BECK: What is the problem with that? I mean, as somebody who`s worked hard for a scholarship or worked hard for the education for the next 400 years, or as a dad who`s paying for the education, you know what? I`m sending my child there for an education, not to experience date rape -- date rape and blackouts.

MARK: What you`re not looking for, though, is the no booze thing. What you`re looking for is a place where someone can get an education that allows them to do -- everyone is going out into the world. There`s going to be bad guys and bad girls everywhere your daughter goes after college.

BECK: Right.

MARK: But you want the moral education, the character formation so that someone can make a good choice.

BECK: All right. So it looks like the university won`t make any judgments on one. However, I know with the Sex on Saturday nights is one of the things that you have to go to over orientation. Mandatory. Have to go and have to attend the...

MCDANIEL: Follow-up session.

BECK: ... follow-up session where you have to talk about it and what you`ve learned. I don`t know if you can use puppets or what.

MARK: You can bring your stuffed animal.

BECK: And then the other one is diversity. What`s diversity all about?

MARK: Also mandatory at freshman orientation, diversity training.

BECK: Right. What is it?

MCDANIEL: There are people in the world who aren`t like you. You didn`t know this before. You`ve got to learn.

BECK: Really. That`s fantastic. So there is -- the university will say there is wrong?

MCDANIEL: In a sense. I mean, there are -- you know, we can talk about the politically correct, you know, obviously homophobia is wrongful. Obviously, it`s -- you know, date rape is wrong. These sort of blindingly obvious things, the modern secular liberal university. And that`s just assumed, so you have programs which hammer home these, you know, in themselves, perfectly reasonable positions.

But I think it`s arbitrary (ph). If you`re going to be a moral thinker, there`s lots of other things you can reasonably put forward.

BECK: Is three -- is there consistency at all? There was a Catholic. What was that?

MARK: One of the things that`s a real challenge is the inconsistency. And there was a big incident here a few years ago when there was a very anti-Catholic art display in the gallery of the Woodrow Wilson School, which is the university`s crown jewel, the school of public policy. And people -- people started asking questions. Why is this being permitted?

BECK: What was it?

MARK: One of the most offensive pieces of art was one entitled "Shackles of the AIDS Virus." And it was scapulas, Catholic sacramental items, all the way around. And they were placed around a chain. Pictures of Jesus and the Virgin Mary. Very holy sacred objects to Catholics. And it was a way of criticizing the Catholic church`s positions, I guess, on marriage and sexuality.

And it was clear that the university would absolutely not permit anything remotely like this, were it offensive to Muslims or some other...

BECK: You actually -- didn`t you lead the protest on this?

MARK: Well, I can`t take credit for leading it, but I did speak up. And one of my points was not that, well, OK, you know, if they offend the Catholics, next they`ll offend the Jews. And because fortunately, the Jews get along just fine here.

But it was just the opposite. It was that I`m speaking up for the Catholics because I know they would never do this to the Jews, just like they wouldn`t do it to the Muslims and just like they wouldn`t do it to anybody else. And so if anti-Catholicism is going to be the last acceptable bigotry, then that`s a double standard we can`t accept.

GEORGE: I should I point out that when Daniel made that intervention, he was president of the Center for Jewish Life.

BECK: Back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Right before the break, we were talking about how there was a very offensive display on Catholicism. And you said, "I know that it wouldn`t be allowed on any other group," et cetera, et cetera.

MARK: The university said as much themselves, pretty much.

BECK: Right. Instead of leading the charge to stop it, shouldn`t the university setting be something where you`re pushed up against the wall all the time and, instead of saying, "Well, this anti-Catholic thing could be done," isn`t the university really one of the only places where you should say, "OK, but then this about the Jews or this about"...

MARK: Absolutely. It`s either/or. In other words, either offend everybody or offend nobody. But have one standard.

BECK: Right. But which one should it be? I mean, I think a good education, I shouldn`t know what the professor believes in. I shouldn`t have any idea what the professor believes in. He might know what I believe in, but she push me up against the wall every step of the way and challenge me every step of the way. And somebody who believes the opposite, he should do the exact same thing. Isn`t that what this is supposed to be?

HWANG: It should be. And in large -- in most cases, it is, at least among students. In preset discussions, you know, if something is brought up that I would disagree with and I would speak my mind -- I`m not known for not speaking my mind. And you know, most of the students would disagree with it.

But they would give me a fair hearing. They would give me reasons for it, and then they would come full steam ahead right back at me. Sometimes in lectures, though, it can get professors who would assume that you are on the same page as they are, and they would just make these assumptions.

BECK: Are you the one sitting in a class that said -- the professor said, "I mean, I assume we`re all anti-American." What is that story?

MARK: The professor was talking about the ridiculous beliefs of the undergraduates. And they were ridiculous, because they were typically American beliefs about optimism and individualism. And she just stopped in the middle and said, "Well, before I go on, I should ask, is anybody in the room American?"

And one of the Americans in the class spoke up and said, "Oh, that`s fine. We`re all fine with American bashing."

And so the point -- so sometimes it`s -- you know, sometimes it`s direct. But this also reveals more the underlying assumption that everybody agrees with the liberal position.

BECK: Do you at all -- if -- has anybody felt at all that "I don`t want to be the freak this time and raise my hand and say, `No, I`m not comfortable with America bashing`"?

MCDANIEL: Yes. It`s exhausting, right? You`ve got to do it sometimes, I think, for your own integrity. But you know, from time to time, you just have to let it -- let it slide. But I would certainly encourage students, you know, you`ve got to speak out.

BECK: You`ve had students had to speak up.

GEORGE: Look, it will surprise some professors, but in the end, you`re going to be a winner if you speak up and challenge your professors. They`re big boys and girls. They can take it.

BECK: They say that they can`t -- they say that they can`t make the argument of the other side. I`ve heard professors actually say that: "Well, I can`t make the argument for the other side."

GEORGE: Well, then we should have people representing a spectrum of views in the professoriate. If an individual professor can`t make the argument for both sides, that`s a good argument for making sure that there`s a range of viewpoints represented on the faculty and that we don`t have group think.

There`s a real problem with group think. That`s what political correctness is. It`s a kind of group think, and it`s stifling to the educational mission of the university. We can only really educate our students if we`re prepared to help them to understand and confront the very best arguments to be made on competing sides of the issue.

BECK: OK. Back from Princeton University in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAPHIC: The Hook-Up Culture. Forty-nine percent of students whose hook-up included intercourse never see one another again. Source: Princeton University study.

BECK: We`re back with a full hour of what it`s like to go to a university or college today. Depending on how long it has been since you`ve been out of college or a university, it could be very different.

We`re at the Witherspoon -- what is it -- the Witherspoon Center or Institute at Princeton University. They barely let me in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s at Princeton, New Jersey.

BECK: Princeton University is like on the other side of the fence. We couldn`t build a border fence but Princeton built a fence right there.

We were talking about what it is like to be a -- it`s true, isn`t it? We were talking about what it is like to be a Conservative in today`s world. And we were talking about what it is like for me to ride the elevator in the Time Warmer Center; sometimes a little uncomfortable.

And the same with you guys at university. The difference is, I`m 45 years old and I don`t really give a flying crap anymore. It took alcoholism to get me there.

You guys --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t try that.

BECK: It is wrong.

You guys, you`re just starting to formulate -- when you first walked on to the campus, you`re just starting to really formulate, what do I believe on my own? Who am I?

How do you do that when you`re afraid to say, okay, I don`t think I`m like those people. But you don`t, how do you reach out? How do you challenge? How do you navigate that?

DANIEL MARK, GRADUATE STUDENT, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: It is hard to speak up because when you speak up, you have to be prepared with all of your arguments. When you`re still at that formative stage of having the instinct that you don`t agree, but not knowing all the arguments, you`re dead in the water because they`re just going to come at you.

JONATHAN HWANG, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY STUDENT: It can be daunting because going into a university setting, you`re not sure. This is a new place for you. I just say, I would encourage students, to not be afraid.

Just have your arguments. Know your reasons. Get up there and speak. And by and large, people listen to you. Don`t be under any illusion that people will just take it. They`ll fight right back. You just have to be ready.

STEFAN MCDANIEL, 2008 GRADUATE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Sometimes they won`t. And you realize you won. That`s quite remarkable.

A little goes a long way. You know, you`re a freshman, you don`t really know. You have some ideas. They`re not the mainstream ideas but you will find the same class discussions if you just have the gumption to express a contrary opinion. Three or four other people start backing you up because they, too, are sort of like cowed and nervous, you know. What are we --

BECK: Has anybody run into the situation to where you sit there and thought, I just, I`m going to write what I know I`ll get an A on. And I`m just going to fight it.

You`ve never felt that way? You`ve never -- have you ever felt, yes, I`m with you.

HWANG: Sometimes it`s credential and judgments we make. I know there is going to be a bigger battle later. Should I rest easy on this one? Give this some time and then I can go come right back in the future.

But by and large, the more you sit out, the easier it gets. And then eventually you become complacent.

MCDANIEL: You have to distinguish between lying, saying something you don`t believe in, choosing to -- your options.

BECK: You guys are the brightest of the bright. And you know, here we are near Princeton University. And a lot of people are not -- they don`t have the opportunity to go to a university like this. They go to a normal state university. And they`re just navigating through it.

They don`t have an icon of conservative values to model themselves after on the campus. And so they`re afraid they`re alone. And they will come up to bigoted professors, where you`re going to be pilloried if you speak out. Do you still speak out?

CASSANDRA DEBENEDETTO, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY GRADUATE: This is one of the reasons why having some sort of support network for students is so essential.

One of the things we`ve done here at Princeton during my sophomore year, a bunch of my classmates and I got together to form this group called the Anscombe Society and what that does is provide students with the resources they need as well as the support that they need to talk about hot topics like chastity, sexuality, marriage, family.

To provide that voice on campus that isn`t being offered. It is so important for students to have that sort of support network, to know where to go to, to find the resources they need to make those arguments that aren`t being inside the classroom or outside the classroom.

BECK: May I be frank with you here? I met with a lot of members of the Anscombe Society, I don`t know, four months ago. And when I`m driving down and I hear, I`m meeting with the chastity group. I didn`t really know what to expect. And that just, just that. And I`m a conservative.

And just that went, oh, is everybody going to be in like habits? When I met them, surprise, surprise; they were all normal. Do students who say, you know, I want to stay chaste, do they ever feel like maybe they`re the freak? That they`re cool, they`re okay but everybody else that would want to do this must be weird?

Do you know what I`m saying? Most people don`t say what they -- they`re afraid that it is only them. But once they speak out, then people start going, really?

MARK: And I say that`s the greatness of a group like the Anscombe Society is that you might feel like that a lot of the time. What am I supposed to do on a Saturday night? But then, you know what I was told the freshman year. But then you get to know them -- even just the value of that as a social network, people who want to hang out and have a wholesome lifestyle. And that`s great.

BECK: How do people, if somebody is watching and they don`t have the Anscombe Society. How do they --

DEBENEDETTO: What I`m doing right now actually is, I graduated from Princeton a year ago. This group got started while I was an undergraduate that so many students were actually contacting us, wanting to know how to start groups like the on their own campuses.

What I`m doing now is I`ve started the Love and Fidelity network to help students on other college campuses. Princeton, too, but on other college campuses to start groups like this to put forth those arguments; to get together and have that support network.

ROBERT GEORGE, MCCORMICK PROFESSOR OF JURISPRUDENCE: What is really impressive about the Anscombe Society and the work that Cassie and the others have done is this isn`t just a support group. It is a group that empowers people. It empowers students to make the arguments.

They deal in the currency of intellectual discourse, that is, reasons and arguments. They are willing to engage with people who want to defend the hook-up culture. They`re prepared to engage with people who defend the gay lifestyle.

They`re saying this, you give us your argument, we`ll give you our argument. We`ll argue on the plane of reason, philosophical premises, sociological information, the best data that we have available.

BECK: I have to tell you and my hats off to Princeton University for this one thing. I think Peter Singer is one of the biggest evil SOBs I have ever seen. When I read his words, "Hey, it`s okay, let`s kill babies 30 days after they`re born. I`m sorry. Not 30 days, we can go to two years before they become human." What is that?

You look at things like that. And it is horrifying. Yet, that`s okay as long as it is balanced with somebody intelligent on the other side that says, "Hey, Pete, not a good idea."

That`s what it should be. You should be able to intelligently challenge each other. If I`m not mistaken, you have great respect for Peter Singer.

GEORGE: Peter Singer puts his arguments out in an intelligent, rigorous way. He is willing to live with the consequences of his view. His view about what makes us persons is a view whose logical implications entail that we are not persons possessing dignity and deserving of consideration until we`re sometime long after birth. He is willing to live with the consequences of that.

I`ll tell you, it is not a bad thing to have people who disagree. Even disagree radically on a college campus. It is a good thing.

BECK: It is a good thing.

GEORGE: I taught a course last spring, not this spring that just passed, but the one just before that, with Professor Cornell West. Professor West is someone very much on the left. I`m on the right.

We did 12 weeks. We did 12 major works of literature and politics. We both talked about each of the works, we engaged each other, we engaged the students. It was a wonderful experience for the students. It was certainly a wonderful experience for me. Professor West tells me it was a wonderful experience for him.

We all learned something from that engagement. That`s a good thing. That`s the kind of diversity we need on college campuses.

BECK: Right.

MARK: And the Peter Singer example that you bring up is one of the reasons why the Anscombe Society, Princeton Pro-Life and all these groups we have is so important because someone needs to be out there making the arguments, organizing events, bringing the great speakers we`ve had.

BECK: Do you feel that the diversity on campus. It always kills me. Diversity is good unless it includes these things over here. Diversity is good unless you happen to have this opinion. Do you think that`s starting to change?

GEORGE: It certainly has at Princeton. The situation here is quite radically different. Political correctness is a form of bullying, that`s what it is. And bullies are usually cowards.

What makes cowards back off is simply standing up to them. It`s making the argument out loud. It is saying the politically incorrect things, not just to offend people but because it is an argument that needs to be made.

Criticizing what should be criticized. Taking an opposing view, being willing to stand up; that ends political correctness quickly. You can deal that to political correctness on any college just by having a few people say, we`re not taking this. We`re making the argument. You can respond with a counter argument but we`re not going be intimidated into silence.

HWANG: We`ve seen that at Princeton`s campus. In the Anscombe Society, we`ve grown from a group of ten to close to 40 active members. And we`re a presence on campus. The university newspapers, they regularly come to us asking us for quotes to comment on certain issues.

BECK: Do they treat you fairly?

HWANG: By and large, yes.

DEBENEDETTO: Our e-mail list, even though we have 30 to 40 active members, our e-mail reaches out to 250 members. Those are people who some of them agree, some of them don`t but at least they want to be part of the discussion.

GEORGE: Every semester, I host a reception for pro-life and pro family students including students in the Anscombe Society. And at the last reception last semester, we had 16 members of the faculty and academic staff co-sponsor with me for these student.

There are people out there, even on the academic staff, who believe as we believe, and are willing to stand up to political correctness. They came out to support the students.

BECK: Back in a second.

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MARK: It can be hard because you have to -- you always have to make a decision about whether you want to speak up for yourself. And there are more than enough opportunities, more than enough provocation. But you have to be in the moment where you`re prepared to interrupt the professor or prepared to jump into a conversation to defend what you believe in.

A lot of times that`s important but a lot of other times, just the social pressure to conform. We like to think we don`t yield but you can`t keep up everything with. You can`t object to everything you hear.

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BECK: Back with a full-hour discussion of what life is like at a university or a college for your children in today`s world.

I wanted to, I think what I want you to do is put yourself back into yourself at 18 and your first day on campus. You`re like, orientation, sex -- and give students or parents the piece of advice that you wish somebody would have given you to prepare you for this.

Cassie?

DEBENEDETTO: Sure. First of all to think for yourself, we mentioned earlier about this idea of group think. This phenomenon of group think.

The thing is just when freshmen come in, they are bombarded with this idea of toleration. They need to tolerate everybody`s behavior when really what students should be doing is they should be using the university atmosphere to realize, there are differences and I can disagree with somebody else`s choices or values or something.

But what we should be emphasizing here, what we should be encouraging students to do is to come together in a civil manner, right, and a respectful manner but to engage each and take an interest in the other arguments and present your own arguments. And to know that you`re not alone in presenting those arguments.

So certainly having the courage to put yourself forward like that.

MARK: I asked for Joshua on his way and he said be strong and of good courage, kind of like that. When I was a student leader in the Jewish community here, there was some anti-Israel agitation on campus I was asked to speak at the counter demonstration, at the pro-Israel rally.

And a student even more senior than I said no, you can`t speak at that because we want to include everyone. Don`t want to offend everyone. I thought about it. I took it into account but I spoke in the end.

After the speech that same girl came over to me and said that she was sorry. My speech made her cry. And so sometimes it takes just that little bit extra courage to speak up and really make a difference. And people will be changed by it.

HWANG: Yes. And know why you believe something. Don`t be afraid to pursue it if it is truth, then it should be pursued by everybody. And you`ll find allies in unlikely places you`ll never know who will support you.

And one of the great things about Princeton is that there are many students who are committed to this idea of rational discourse, of trying to find the truth by discussing and debating and arguing. And that`s what makes it a great place.

You really just have to know why you believe it and don`t be afraid to stand up there and say why you believe it and say I`ll take anyone who challenges me. And we`ll see what`s true behind this thing.

MCDANIEL: I would say two things. One, expect a lot of frustrating experiences. Because a prevailing orthodoxy doesn`t, it barely trembles at the first attack. And there are so many presumptions working against you.

The other side has all -- they can ridicule you so much easier. They can confuse all sorts things and still appear to have the better argument. It is overwhelmingly -- everyone is overwhelmingly in favor of them.

And the second thing is, I would say, don`t come to think of yourself as a victim. Don`t try to become, say, please carve out a place for me as another interest group or something like that. I think that`s exactly what is wrong with the academy. And what you can do for the people you oppose is get them to stop making those terms, too by refusing to take on the mantle of another victim.

BECK: I think I love you. Nobody addressed parents.

GEORGE: I happen to be one. I`ve got a couple of kids in college. And of course, I`ve met a lot of parents over the years.

Parents are concerned about what goes on in college. They do want their children to get a true liberal arts education. They don`t want their children to be indoctrinated. And they`re worried that at colleges and universities around the country, including Princeton, indoctrination goes on.

BECK: Do you think it does?

GEORGE: To some extent it does, but it can be challenged. It can be defeated.

Most professors, most liberal professors are open-minded. They`re willing to take challenges. They`re willing to entertain challenges. They`re doing their best to be fair in their grading.

There are a few ideologues who are off the reservation. A few that will grade on the basis of ideological considerations. That`s human nature.

The same would be true if conservatives have control; right now liberals have control of these institutions.

BECK: Sure, people are people.

GEORGE: We need more diversity. But in most cases, professors are prepared to entertain the argument and students need to be ready to make the argument. They need to empower themselves. They need to get together, they need to form organizations. They need to engage people on the other side.

BECK: Do you have a hard time? As a professor, people must come to you and say, professor, they`re really -- I mean, I have such unfair treatment. And the victim kind of -- the victim-hood.

GEORGE: I`m with Stefan 100 percent on that. Conservative students, conservatives in general should not depict themselves as victims and ask for a little space for them to be carved out in the great rainbow.

No, they should be making their arguments civilly, respectfully but strongly and vigorously and entertaining arguments from the other side. Conservatives have something to learn in the argument. They also have something to teach in the argument.

As Jon Hwang says, we`ll see where the truth lies when we engage the argument.

BECK: Ok. Back with final thoughts in a minute.

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BECK: First time I saw a Communist newspaper was on a college campus. And some kid handed me the newspaper and I said, thanks, I took it, got four steps ahead and looked at it and said this is Communist. I turned around and I said, you know what after you paid a mortgage and had a job for a while, come back and give it to me then.

There seems to be a real push towards socialism and, hey, that`s cool. What is the thing that you think we should be preparing for because of what`s coming out of our universities today?

MCDANIEL: Well, I think we started off talking about "I Am Charlotte Simmons." We`ve got to remember that he has to sell books; Tom Wolfe has to sell books so it`s in his interest to paint it as more lurid than it in fact is.

But I think we do have to worry about certainly a certain segment of society who has been indoctrinated with a certain moral relativism. It`s not going to be Stalin or the Nazis over again, just a sapping of moral and spiritual energy. And it quite frankly puts our civilization in danger. People don`t think they have to act for anything in particular.

BECK: If everybody thinks, well, I don`t really have -- the reason why we have to have somebody take care of us and tell us exactly what temperature our house should be and be able to control it from a distance is because we`re not capable of taking care of ourselves.

MARK: Well, exactly. I mean, part of the problem is, even though you can come here and get the best education in the world, the dominant liberal orthodoxy means you can go through all four years here and not really be challenged in your thinking. So who`s coming out on the other end is people who maybe have never had their thinking challenged and they don`t have anything to say when told what to do.

GEORGE: But the reality at Princeton now is that you will have your thinking challenged if not by professors by your fellow students because there`s such an active resistance to that orthodoxy.

And Conservatives students here are achieving at the highest levels. We`ve had three socially conservative students win Rhodes scholarship and other scholarships in the past two years. The president of the senior class is an out of the closet social and economic and political conservative. Conservative students are just at the top.

BECK: Anybody have -- is there a Website or anything where people can go if they`re now thinking, okay, I`m going anyplace?

DEBENEDETTO: So the Anscombe Society Website www.princeton.edu/anscombe.

BECK: We`ll put it down at the bottom of the screen. The other one quickly.

DEBENEDETTO: And then the other one is www.loveandfidelity.org.

BECK: Great. Thanks guys. Thank you professor.

GEORGE: Thank you.

BECK: From Princeton, New Jersey -- not to be confused with the university -- good night, America.

END