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Glenn Beck

Honest Questions with Bob Barr

Aired August 28, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): While Barack dedicates the temple of Obama, and McCain worries about a VP, Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr continues to campaign on the issues. He wants more offshore drilling, will stop government bail out. He`s tired of the two-party system, and he`s ready to take action. Oh, and did I mention he`s a huge Bob Marley fan? You`re kidding, right?

Get ready for one candidate`s voice you won`t hear anywhere else: Bob Barr for the full hour.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Well, hello, America. Joining me now is Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr.

Bob, this is -- I think this is the second hour that we`ve done with you. And it really -- it amazes me how people are so willing just to play the same record over and over again with both the parties. And people argue back and forth about, "I`m not going to throw my vote away. I`m not going to be -- you know, I can`t vote for a third party." But the two parties are taking us to the same destination, just one faster than the other. Agree or disagree?

BOB BARR (L), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I agree. It drives me crazy, too. I mean, I get to hear it every day. "Bob, you know, we really like what you stand for. We like your message of smaller government, more individual liberty, you know, cutting taxes, reforming taxes, but golly gee, you know, if we vote for you, isn`t that throwing our vote away?"

I look them in the eye and I say, "Look, you want the definition of a wasted vote? Vote Democrat or Republican."

BECK: OK. I want to tell you about my "Hollywood Squares" theory here in just a bit, because look, America, if you`re like me, I am -- well, I`m just a typical, you know, white guy clinging to my god and my guns. But if you`re like me at all, you`re looking at both of these guys and going, you got to be kidding me, right?

And Bob, I have to tell you, I`m not convinced that I won`t vote for one of these two clowns. Yet I`m not -- I can`t -- I`m just in a place where I`m like, I don`t think I can do it.

So, if you`re like me, spend the hour here with Bob Barr, and we`ll get to some of the answers. One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is you`re not in any of the debates.

BARR: Not so far.

BECK: Right. And I -- you know, again, America, the guy should be on the debates because these two clowns are just going to say the same things back and forth to each other. Somebody needs to be there to keep them honest. You weren`t on the Saddleback debates either.

BARR: No.

BECK: And I thought, since you didn`t get to participate in the Saddleback, I`d take some of the questions and I`d ask you the same kind of questions that they asked the other two candidates at Saddleback. You ready?

BARR: I`m ready.

BECK: All right, does evil exist, and if it does, do we ignore it? Do we negotiate it -- negotiate with it? Do we contain it, or do we defeat it?

BARR: You kill it. I mean, evil is out there. It`s -- you know, it`s here domestically. We have murder. There`s mass murders, pedophiliacs in this country. We have folks over seas who want to kill us, rape our women, kill our soldiers, kill civilians. Absolutely it`s out there. And we need to meet it and defeat it wherever we find it, whether it`s here or overseas.

BECK: Non-Saddleback question: is Russia evil?

BARR: Evil -- evil was the Soviet Union, and there is the potential there. I would not say that the current Russian government is evil in the same sense that the Soviet one was.

BECK: Putin is not? Former (ph) of the KGB?

BARR: I haven`t looked into his eyes like Bush did.

But I mean, clearly, there are serious dangers here. There are serious problems here. There is a great potential for -- for mischief in the world with -- with Russia and its resurgence, but it`s not something that requires us to go rushing U.S. troops over to Georgia or something.

BECK: OK. What should we do in Georgia?

BARR: Well, what we should do is monitor the situation very carefully. We don`t just back away and say, "Oh, that`s just a problem over in that part of the world." Clearly, we need to monitor it. If there, in fact, is an appropriate way to get civilian relief, humanitarian relief there, without putting U.S. troops in there, which is unnecessary, we certainly ought to do that.

We ought to sit down with Putin, not look him in the eye, and say, "Gee, I like what I see there." But say, "Look, Mr. Putin, we can`t have this. You can`t go rushing into another country and just take the parts of it that you like. And there`s going to be a price that`s going to be paid for that. It`s unnecessary."

BECK: As a Libertarian, though, isn`t that a problem? Here`s where the Libertarians -- here is my problem with Libertarians. I am -- I am more of a Libertarian than anything else, except I think when it comes to common sense. There is a line, and I`m not sure where it is. But there is a line when you have to say, you know, jeez, I guess we`ve got to man up here, because nobody else will man up.

Is there a line that the Libertarians draw? You seem to be -- I could talk to Penn Jillette or any of the, you know -- you know, Libertarians that I know that are all the way Libertarian, and they`re this close to anarchy. They wouldn`t say go over and even talk to them and say, "We can`t have this."

They`d say it`s none of their business.

BARR: I`m not an isolationist. I mean, an isolationist is a fool. That`s somebody that just sits in your backyard and waits -- waits for your neighbor to lob a grenade over.

If in fact, we -- we suspect and we have good intelligence, the key to the first line of defense has got to be good intelligence. And that`s another whole topic.

But if you have information that somebody who has done us harm, such as Osama bin Laden, or is poised to do us harm and has the capability to do so, something that was missing in the pre-invasion Iraq situation, then you find them and you go after them. And you don`t allow the artificiality of playing politics and foreign aid, whether it`s Afghanistan or Pakistan, stand in the way of that.

BECK: OK. Next Saddleback -- Saddleback question. Which existing Supreme Court justice would you have not nominated and why?

BARR: There are a number of them that I would not have nominated, but one that I do think doesn`t get a lot of credit is Justice Kennedy. If you look at Justice Kennedy, he actually understands both the practicalities of the real world out there and what the Constitution is about.

He was the -- he was the common vote in two recent very important decisions: the gun case holding the D.C. gun ban unconstitutional. He was the swing vote on that case. He was also the swing vote just a couple of weeks earlier on a case that stood for the proposition that, hey, habeas corpus really does still mean something in western civilization.

BECK: You just made the hair stand up on my neck here for a second. You said something, that he understands practical, everyday situations that are happening today. Is the Constitution something that we mold?

BARR: No, absolutely not. No. Absolutely not.

BECK: Isn`t that the progressive argument, that hey, the Constitution, that was 250 years ago. You know, we can`t -- they didn`t know what they were talking about. Those things don`t apply to us.

BARR: No, no.

BECK: Now we have to progress.

BARR: We`re on exactly the same wavelength on that.

BECK: OK.

BARR: Just probably a bad choice -- choice of words.

BECK: OK.

BARR: But what I`m saying is he understands that there is, in fact, a real world out there that the Constitution has to be applied to. And you take the concept of habeas corpus, which is embodied not just in our Constitution but in, you know, all of modern western civilization going back to the Middle Ages and King John, it does mean something.

And the words in the Constitution that say habeas corpus can only be suspended by the Congress, not the president and only in very limited circumstances actually means something, and it has to be adhered to.

BECK: Define rich.

BARR: Not me. Probably not you -- not you, either. It`s easier to define what it isn`t. It ain`t Bob Barr.

I think that`s, you know -- it was sort of a silly question. And McCain just sort of flubbed it by joking about it being $5 million. And then McCain, who tries -- I mean, Obama, who plays to the other -- the other end of the economic spectrum, set the bar really low, so that he could, you know, prove that he`s a real man of the people.

The fact of the matter is that everybody in this country is paying too many -- too much taxes because government is spending way too much of their money. Rich is government. That`s the best definition of rich.

BECK: OK. Why does it matter what rich is?

BARR: Well, it doesn`t so much matter what rich is or what rich isn`t, except in the system of government that we have allowed to be crafted up around our modern world.

Rich becomes important, because that`s what we pay taxes to, as opposed to the more fair system of taxation, such as a flat tax or, even better yet, a consumption tax. Then rich doesn`t matter at all. It only matters because we have this income tax and these graduated rates. So the more you make, the more you pay.

BECK: There was a -- there`s a push now by a group of people in California to actually have an additional California tax on people that make over $250,000 a year, up to $10 million a year, of -- I think the bottom is 17 percent, then 37, and then 54 percent additional.

In a California tax, they think this would -- they think that this would actually help the state of California. How can we -- how can Americans finally grasp that higher taxes are hurting, especially business, and business is important to what I keep hearing from the politicians, grow jobs?

They think, these politicians keep acting as if Washington grows jobs. Washington doesn`t grow jobs. Please, can you explain why business, and business is important to what I keep hearing from the politicians, grow jobs. They think, these politicians keep acting as if Washington grows jobs. Washington doesn`t grow jobs. Please, can you explain why higher taxes are bad?

BARR: Higher taxes are bad because they take money that could be put into actually productive purposes in the economy.

BECK: What about -- what about greedy corporations that are just -- you know, just sucking up all this money and not doing anything responsible with it?

BARR: Well, who`s sucking up the money and what is done with that money? It`s given to the shareholders. Those are, by and large, average Americans out there. Yes, they certainly take a percentage for salaries, bonuses and so forth.

But the vast majority of money that comes into those evil corporations goes to the shareholders of those corporations, which are, you know, the average Americans sitting around their, you know, coffee table or their kitchen table. And they`re using those dividends to pay for their kids` college education.

BECK: All right. Back in just a second with presidential candidate, the only one with an A-plus rating from the NRA, Bob Barr. Back in a second.

GRAPHIC: What 4 digits do most of Bob Barr`s phone numbers end with?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAPHIC: What 4 digits do most of Bob Barr`s phone numbers end with? 1-7-7-6, as a tribute to our Founding Fathers.

BECK: OK, see Bob, don`t you think that`s a little over the top? I mean, don`t you think just the 1776 thing, just -- you`re not even going to play with me.

OK, help me out with -- for the first time in my life, I cannot vote for a single person. I`m going to vote. I don`t agree with you on the way we conduct ourselves in the war and what`s worth fighting for. And let me ask you this, a Saddleback question. What is worth fighting for in America? What is worth having our military fight for?

BARR: What`s worth having our military fight for is whenever there`s a threat to the United States of America, a direct threat to our people, wherever they are in the world, whether it`s a foreign embassy, a U.S. company overseas that`s there under lawful -- for a lawful commercial activity. If somebody threatens us, threatens to take the life of an American, threatens to blow up a U.S. facility or installation or is poised to do so, that is a threat to this country.

BECK: Do you believe that we had -- we all agree that we had inaccurate information before going into Iraq. Do you believe we falsified that, that we lied our way into this war? Or do you believe that our intelligence agency, along with everyone from Russia to France to England, everybody else, also saw Saddam Hussein as having some sort of weapons of mass destruction program, and we just made a mistake?

BARR: I haven`t seen any evidence that our government leaders deliberately lied about it or falsified information, not at all.

BECK: All right.

BARR: But what I do think was the case was in the way they analyzed and interpreted the information that they were getting. And they didn`t ask enough tough questions about it to determine whether it really was accurate, whether it really was reliable. And they took every inference and cast it in a light most favorable to what they wanted to do.

BECK: OK. If you were president at the time and you felt that that information that we had, and you asked all the questions you wanted to ask and you said, "You know what? I think he has them," would you have gone in?

BARR: Not in the way we did. But yes, I would have gone in to have taken them out.

BECK: How would you have done it?

BARR: We have -- and we would have under a Bob Barr administration, a tremendous, very active, very technologically-advanced, quick black response teams for that sort of thing.

BECK: You know, this is the problem. Do you believe with rendition?

BARR: Not -- not in the sense that it`s been used recently, where you deliberately take somebody and send them somewhere to do something to them that you can`t do yourselves.

BECK: Yes, OK. Because I have a problem with that. I mean, mean up. You want to -- you want to do it, then have the cajones to admit, "You know what? We`re going to do things you`re not going to like. And that`s just the way it is."

I think it makes us really a nasty-looking country when we farm out or do things in secret. If you`re going to do it, do it and tell the world, "This is what I`m going to do."

BARR: I thing there`s nothing wrong with -- with doing something in a very specific, if you can, in a very so-called black operation. Sometimes that can be much more effective. Certainly much less costly than a massive military operation.

BECK: OK, so here`s my problem. I`ve got to vote. We all have to vote. My -- my "Hollywood Squares" theory is I`d like Paul Lynde to block, please, and that`s the way I feel, like I don`t want to vote for McCain. I don`t want Obama in, but I -- I could find myself saying, "Oh I`m going to vote for" -- and a lot of people say this, "I`m going to vote for McCain. I`ll hold my nose, because I`m going to block Obama," or the other way around. That`s the most ridiculous thing I`ve ever heard.

BARR: It`s completely self-defeating. It`s completely nonsensical. It`s irrational. And there`s absolutely no good reason for the American people to feel that way. America deserves better than that.

I mean, if people had taken that attitude, Ronald Reagan probably never would have been president. Because his election was not at all assured. His views were not widely accepted at the beginning of the 1980 campaign or even earlier in the 1976 campaign.

BECK: You believe -- you know, the Republican Party just put a plank into their platform that says we have to take a stand against global warming. Are you going to take a stand against global warming?

BARR: What you do is you do recognize, as even a number of very conservative, scientifically-based conservative organizations have determined, there is, you know, warming of the atmosphere. But no, that doesn`t require taking a stand in favor of it. What it means is, hey, this is something we need to look into further.

BECK: OK. They have also put a plank into the platform -- or taken a plank out of the platform of ANWR. The Republican Party no longer says we should drill in ANWR. Agree or disagree?

BARR: Absolutely disagree. I mean, this is the McCain factor. And yet, we constantly hear, as you indicated at the start of our session here, "Well, gee, you know, I can`t vote for Bob Barr. I`m worried about voting for Bob Barr. You`ve got to vote for McCain." Well, you vote for McCain, you`re voting against energy independence.

BECK: OK. Back in a second with Libertarian candidate for president of the United States, Bob Barr.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Back with libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr.

Bob, I want to talk to you a little bit about the arrogance of the people that are running for president of the United States. I don`t sense the arrogance coming from you.

Obama is clearly an arrogant man. He`s changing the presidential seal, giving a speech in a Greek temple. I mean, just arrogance like I`ve never seen before. It worries me that we have become a country that is so wrapped up in a nanny state that when you -- if you would elect somebody that has the arrogance and is all image, you find yourself in the good years of Mussolini, true or false?

BARR: It`s true. And it doesn`t matter whether it`s Republican or Democrat. Both these folks are the same. I mean, the modern presidents, Republican and Democrat, have isolated themselves to such -- to such an outrageous degree, they don`t actually know anymore what`s going on out there in the real world.

BECK: What is -- what is going on in the real world? What is -- what do the American people feel right now, according to you?

BARR: The American people feel something that, historically, has never been at the backbone of our country`s political philosophy. And that is pessimism.

I mean, up to, I mean, almost 90 percent in a recent survey, something like 80 percent of the American people surveyed -- and this is in a nonpartisan poll, said the country is going in the wrong direction on the wrong track. That`s never been the case before. Americans have always been a country that is optimistic, that believes that, with all our foibles and problems, we`re still going in the right direction. That`s what Americans are feeling pessimism, and the system has let them down.

BECK: OK. I think that, in the same -- if it`s the same one that I`ve seen, it was 87 percent saying the country is going on the wrong track, but 76 percent of Americans said, "But my life, I am going in the wrong -- in the right direction."

It is -- it`s not just pessimism. It`s the pessimism of the system, and people say, "I`m going the right way. They`re going the wrong way."

BARR: Disconnect.

BECK: Yes. How dangerous is the disconnect, and how do you repair it?

BARR: Well, it`s terribly dangerous, because it`s a recipe for even more disastrous public policies than we`ve seen in recent decades in Washington. Where you don`t have the support of the people. Where you don`t have the people that are on the same wavelength as the government, as not 100 percent, but largely on the same wavelength, then you`re going to continue to widen that gap between people`s confidence in the government and what government is doing. And they`re just going to continue going off in their same direction of increasing government control.

BECK: OK. Let me ask you this, because I`m a recovering alcoholic DJ with about ten minutes of real schooling under my belt. I can figure it out. Is it -- is it ignorance from these people we`ve elected? Or are they intentionally taking our power away from us and going in a direction that they know the American people don`t want?

BARR: They are intoxicated with power, and they have their view of themselves being right that doesn`t even allow into the equation, into their viewpoint, the fact that they might be wrong. They`re so enamored of themselves, and it comes from the power and the isolation, the way we build these people up so that they think they`re up here and the rest of the country is down here. They never here it.

BECK: Ten seconds before we have to go to a break. Are you for term limits or not?

BARR: I am for term limits.

BECK: I want to talk to you about that when we come back in just a second. And also bailouts and borders and bankruptcies, oh, my. Back in a second with Bob Barr.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Back with a full hour With libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr. Bob, before we went to the break, I just asked you are you for term limits. Here is my problem with it. And help me figure this one out.

The problem is if I tell everybody to get out, which I`m for I got pitchforks right behind me, I like that.

BARR: I have been a little worried about those, I got that the corner of my eye.

BECK: Oh good, good. You should be worried. All of the people that I ever worked in Washington should be worried. My -- I`d like to get rid of all of them.

However, that leaves the House, you know, the people`s House, if you will, with the only ones that know how to run it are the real bureaucrats and the special interest groups. How do you say term limits will work when the real problem is special interest groups?

BARR: The real problem is we have allowed government to become so big and control so much of our lives that you`re right. That huge bureaucracy, whether it`s the bureaucracy in the executive branch or the bureaucracy that is the Congressional staffs which are huge nowadays; they are indeed running the country in many respects.

So long as we continue to allow Washington to take all of this money and with the power that comes with it and then dole it back out and control businesses, control schools, control families, then we have to have some way to at least limit the damage. And that can be done by term limits.

So if we change the system of government, and as we would like to do, as President Bob Barr would begin doing, reducing the power of the Federal Government, the need for term limits wouldn`t be as great.

BECK: Ok, Ron Paul immediately got on television and it made him look crazy when he said "We`ve got to abolish the FBI and we`ve got to abolish the IRS and the Board of Education, everything. All of which, don`t get me wrong, I agree with.

But not, "Hey, let`s just get rid of it." How does a libertarian that could actually rule reduce the size of government in a -- in a sane sort of way? You can`t just cut these things.

BARR: No, I mean you have to recognize, if you are going to govern, you can`t govern out of a book of theory. You have to govern in the real world. And the real world dictates that we have this huge government. It`s not going to disappear overnight.

If Bob Barr is elected president on November 4th of 2008, takes Office on January 20th 2009, we`re not going to be able to abolish a darn thing the next day. But what we can do is begin the process by setting the example within the executive Office of the President, say an immediate first day in Office 10 percent cutback in the cost and the personnel in the executive Office of the President. Meet with Congressional leaders challenge them to do the same thing, to at least start the ball moving in that direction.

BECK: Why would they do it?

BARR: Well, because they will have seen the handwriting on the wall that is the election of a non-Republican, non-Democrat president for the first time in well over a century and a half. And they`ll know there`s a real sea change out there, and if they don`t get their act together and start doing something to cut government spending, which is what Bob Barr was elected to do, they`ll be next out the door.

BECK: What was the difference between you and Ross Perot? Ross Perot had 19 percent. And I believe -- I believe it was because of Ross Perot that we had the Republican revolution. There was enough people in Washington to use your words here, that saw the writing on the wall, that saw, "Holy cow. Look what`s coming? The American people are about to grab a pitchfork, but things have changed."

What is the difference between you, and Ross Perot, why is -- with this kind of discontent, why is a third party, you or anybody else, not really taking room?

BARR: Well, a couple of things, one, because there`s been 16 years since the 1992 election when Ross Perot did so well, capturing virtually 20 percent of the vote. We`ve had 16 years more of increases in government -- in government power to solidify it`s position even more.

Makes it that much more difficult to break onto the playing field even Ross Perot also had a great deal of personal wealth and he was able to put in to his campaign to boost his numbers, to get out there and use the media and so forth. We don`t have the luxury of doing that.

We have to rely on the good offices of people like yourself that believe that we need a free and honest debate about these issues. We need more rather than fewer voices heard.

BECK: Do you think the press is picking this election?

BARR: I think they`re starting to pay attention to the message of freedom and liberty out there. Not certainly to the extent that they should, but on the issue of debates, and I know we`re going to talk about that a little bit later, the press can play a very, very key role. The press ought to be in favor of opening these things up because it increases viewership. And for some reason, many of them aren`t.

BECK: Let me ask you the same question I just asked you? Do you think the press is selecting the next president?

BARR: I think they are doing their best to do so, by and large, and it is Senator Obama. And they clearly are playing that as a favorite. Not all of them, but by and large.

BECK: Right, I mean it`s really win/win for the liberal elite. You look at the fields that we had, and we`re down to Obama, a guy who is damn near a Marxist. Would you say he is a Marxist?

BARR: I`m not sure I know enough about him, but clearly, going in that direction clearly he very much believes in big government as a solution to everything as does his new running mate Senator Biden.

BECK: Right, so you have that, and then the fallback is John McCain, and I mean, there`s a guy who is for cap and trade. They`re both for cap and trade. We`re getting cap and trade.

BARR: I know they`re for cap and trade, they`re for more government surveillance of citizens, they are both for less drilling for oil and petroleum and natural gas.

BECK: So you`ve got these two. How do you convince Americans that this is bad? Americans know that we are up to our eyeballs in debt. They know it. They know instinctively that we`re in trouble. They know that we are facing colossal, colossal problems. They know we can`t afford Social Security.

But somehow or another they`ve been convinced the United States could never fail. It`s arrogance, they could never fail. And at the same time, they know, and they say "you`ve got to cut spending, you`ve got to cut spending, you`ve got to cut spending," they`re accepting giant programs from these people.

Well, what do you do?

BARR: Well, what you do is what we`ve been doing. And that is simply getting out there every single chance we have. Can, bringing the message to the American people, trying to overcome this sense of party loyalty that is now stifling creativity in the political arena in America.

And this is what I found out in the Republican Party before I switched to the Libertarian party. Every Republican Party I would go to, meeting I would go to whether it`s national state or local which simply about how much money can we raise? How can we keep our people in Office?

The last time there was any real discussion of substance in the Republican Party was prior to or right about the 1994 election. That was it.

BECK: Tell me how much -- tell me what it means that Hillary Clinton in her speech brought up unions and big labor? Three or four times in a speech that she gave at the convention, but just touched on it, never explain. What`s coming with big labor?

BARR: What`s coming with big labor is they`re going to have a seat right in the Oval Office once again. That -- you know I have a lot of disagreements with the Bush administration certainly on a lot of issues that you and I have discussed, for example. But one area in which this administration has done well by the American people is not to continue to push for special federal legislative favors for big labor.

But that is going to change if we have the Democrats in the White House.

BECK: Bailing out these banks, would you have done it?

BARR: No, you don`t bail anybody out.

BECK: Joe Biden in his speech on the convention floor said, "I have never witnessed a time in this country where so many people are falling down, and there is no government to pick them up."

And I thought, you`re either the worst historian I have ever seen or you`re not old enough to recognize America pre-FDR. You didn`t help America up if you were in the federal government. You stood up on your own.

BARR: America helped itself up.

BECK: And you told big government get out of my way.

BARR: Well, and what`s even worse than Senator Biden talking about more and more bailouts is the fact that the auto makers, big businesses are now going to the government, asking for bailouts. So it`s not just the Democrat Party.

BECK: So the big three come to you and say, "We`re done." We can`t do it. We`re going to close shop. You will have no auto manufacturing in the United States done by the big three. It does make a difference if it`s built in America because the money stays in here America. It doesn`t go to Japan or Germany. What do you do?

BARR: I would look them in the eye, and I`d like to, but I couldn`t slap them just figuratively slap them and say, guys get a hold of yourself, you`re Americans. The fact of the matter is that you can succeed in this country. You can make a better product. The American people will buy a better product, they`re already doing that.

They`re already buying cars that are more energy efficient than those that they were buying in large numbers, just four or five or three years ago. And that`s because the market is moving in that direction.

BECK: Ok, back with Bob Barr. He believes that his voice is important to be heard in the debates. Nobody wants him in the debate. I`ll have him explain and why it is important, coming up in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Back with Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr.

Bob, let me, before we go into the debates, let me talk to you about the border and let me ask your opinion on something. What do you think of this theory because I`m trying to figure out what`s going on with the border and why we are being abandoned by our own government, why we are putting our own border agents in prisons, Compean and Ramos? Are you up on Compean and Ramos? Ok, would you pardon them if you were President of the United States?

BARR: I`d have to find out more about the case. I don`t like government agents whether they were doing the right thing initially or not, lying as part of an investigation. When they`re being investigated, they have just as much obligation as Bill Clinton that when he was being investigated his own truth.

BECK: I`m with you 100 percent if you show me where they were lying. I`m with you 100 percent to make sure that perjury doesn`t stand. Nobody lies. I don`t care who you are, absolutely right.

BARR: Right, on the other offenses, yes, I`m with you.

BECK: Here is a theory. I don`t understand why this is going on. You know and I know, everybody knows this is bad to have an open border. We we`re now having drug cartels coming to grow their drugs here. It`s a highway of drugs and crime. We`re now having kidnapping sprees in San Diego and as far up north, it`s at Atlanta from drug cartels from Mexico.

What do you think of this theory? Instead of this whole mixed Ameri- Canada thing, we`ve got a President who says "You know what? I`ve got really bad guys south of our border that are going to do us harm, Al Qaeda types, et cetera, et cetera. I can`t go in and do anything.

Mexico, you guys take care of this, you guys take care of what`s going on in South America for us, and we`ll leave this open. And just understand that if we have anyone cross our border, that does us harm in an Al Qaeda type, we`re done with you.

What do you think about that kind? Is it possible, so that`s what`s going on? They`re thinking that they`re protecting us from terror?

BARR: I think I`m sitting here looking at the next Secretary of State in the Barr administration. That would be our message, we`ve never delivered it. Instead, what we have with this administration is they reached just recently, it came out that they had a secret deal with the Mexican government to provide for cross-border sharing of Social Security.

So if a Mexican worker comes over here and then goes back to Mexico, he`s going to get credit for Social Security.

BECK: But why would they do that? Why?

BARR: It defies reason.

BECK: But there must be some reason.

BARR: Unless there is a secret agreement to the secret agreement that we don`t know about.

BECK: Ok.

The debates -- I think all of this coverage is ridiculous. None of the fundamentals have changed on oil. Nothing has changed on oil. The price of oil went down. But nothing has changed on oil.

We`re still going to have problems with price of oil. And everybody seems to act like, oh, it`s all over. And nobody is talking about any of it. You can`t get into the debate. Why?

BARR: Well, we can`t get into the debate right now because the two major parties in cahoots with the major media and those that set up the debates, don`t want somebody messing up their playing field. They want to have the facade of a real debate, but without any real debate on the issues. They want to control the entire agenda, including the debates and the campaign.

They don`t want somebody asking the tough questions about why do both of you favor a $3.1 trillion budget? Why do you both vote to keep increasing the national debt? Why do you keep voting for bailouts?

So what`s the difference between these two guys, they don`t want to debate. We need to challenge them. We need to debate.

BECK: What needs to happen to get you into the debate?

BARR: A couple of things. One we need to be polling. We`re right now polling at about six percent according to this Zogby`s National Poll. We need to be polling at 15 percent to meet the current criteria to be a viable candidate.

BECK: Don`t you think there is a criteria? There is --

BARR: Absolutely. I`m not arguing with not having a criteria.

BECK: Right, ok, I mean if I saw with Mike Gravel, one more debate, I was like, "Geez, it`s ok I get it. I get it."

So what are you asking for?

BARR: Well, what we`re asking for is a reasonable criteria for entering debate. If in fact --

BECK: They`re not going to give it to you?

BARR: Well, they`re not likely to, but stranger things have happened. I think if they hear from enough people, if they hear from enough -- they being the media, for example, that people do want -- 55 percent of the American people in a recent Zogby`s Polls also said they want Bob Barr to be part of the debate.

They want to hear from the Libertarian Party. They want to hear these, these issues discussed. The more the media hears that, the more likely they are to realize that, hey, more people are going to watch these debates, and that`s in our best interest.

BECK: Of course, the number one question you would want somebody to ask, that you think is vital, that you scream at the TV, ask Barack Obama this question.

BARR: The very same question I would ask at the American people and say, ask Senator McCain this. Why won`t you put forward any proposal to cut government spending and return power to the people in this country?

BECK: I don`t even know how to you this question. Libertarians kind of like the NRA; the NRA was becoming this huge, broad thing that had people way over here that were like, absolutely no restrictions. If I want a tank, I can have a tank. Then the other side, come on. There are some restrictions here.

Finally, Charlton Heston stood up and said, "You know what? We`ve got to be reasonable, and we`ve got to be a party that has some restrictions that make common sense, but nothing that would ever infringe the right of people to carry reasonable arms."

I don`t need my neighbor to have a nuclear weapon. Do you feel that way with the Libertarian Party? Because you`re really the first Libertarian that has kind of trimmed the edges a little bit. Agree or disagree?

BARR: Absolutely. The Libertarian Party of 2008 is not your father`s or your grandfather`s Libertarian Party. This is a party that recognizes that if we are to be a political party as opposed to a political debating society, we have to recognize that there are compromises that have to be made in how quickly and exactly how we can get accomplished the major libertarian goals, which are mainstream America.

BECK: Right.

BARR: Simply getting the government out of your lives, your businesses and your schools.

BECK: Ok, back in a minute with libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Bob Barr is the Libertarian Party`s presidential candidate. We were just, during the break, talking about his love for Bob Marley. And I believe John McCain loves "Dancing Queen." And pretty much he`s in love with ABBA. Disturbing?

BARR: It certainly raises a question in my mind.

BECK: Yes, whether you conserve or not. The Bob Marley thing, I don`t -- I don`t -- I don`t see you as a Bob Marley guy.

BARR: You`ve never seen me with dreadlocks. That`s what I do at night. I take this wig off and have dreadlocks.

BECK: Ok, that`s disturbing as well.

Let me ask you this, several times during the interview, we`ll do rapid fire here. You`ve referred to yourself as Bob Barr. Is that -- do you refer to yourself in the third person because you are running for a third party?

BARR: You`d rather refer to myself as Glenn Beck?

BECK: No, but I mean, I don`t usually say, Glenn Beck feels; is that a third party a third person thing?

BARR: No it`s basically to get my name out.

BECK: Ok, good, at least you`re honest. Nickname as a kid did you have one?

BARR: Rob. Because my dad is Bob so I was Rob. I had no choice.

BECK: You have a very creative family. If you were to jump in a time machine, what year would you go back and why?

BARR: Well, I think I`d probably go back to 1776. I don`t think that there would be anything more magnificent than to sit down and listen to and hear our founding fathers talk about this land and the form of government that they were forming.

BECK: The chance that you would be disappointed by them, and you would be like, oh crap, I wish I didn`t meet him.

BARR: Wouldn`t happen.

BECK: Wouldn`t happen.

BARR: It may, you look at the federalist papers; how could you possibly be disappointed in those geniuses who wrote the federalist papers.

BECK: Do you think there`s ever been a time on earth where a collection of brains and honest hearts like that ever got together?

BARR: Absolutely not. It was the perfect storm for freedom.

BECK: You believe in Divine Providence?

BARR: Yes.

BECK: Are you a religious man?

BARR: Yes.

BECK: Does that cause a problem with some libertarian?

BARR: Nope, not that they`ve told me. Now maybe they are afraid to but --

BECK: You are pretty intimidating. You seem pretty scary.

Your campaign song is what?

BARR: Campaign song?

BECK: Yes.

BARR: We don`t have a campaign song. We`re just out there fighting for votes.

BECK: You got to love it. You haven`t done a focus group on the campaign song?

BARR: We can`t afford a focus group on anything.

BECK: And your favorite amendment?

BARR: Favorite amendment, second amendment.

BECK: That`s it, second? What about the first? You didn`t have a first, you couldn`t claim the second was your favorite?

BARR: Well the next in line and very close to it would be the fourth because that`s basic privacy amendment in our institution.

BECK: So I think what he`s saying is he not going to answer that question.

Bob Barr, presidential candidate, Libertarian Party. We`ll talk to you again sir, thank you very much.

BARR: Glenn, thank you.

BECK: From New York, good night, America.

END