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Truth Behind the Bailout; Bill Clinton Appears on "The View"
Aired September 23, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, will special interests spell the end of the $700 billion bailout plan? And what happens if the plan fails? Answers coming up.
Then Sarah Palin gets a crash cause in foreign policy, meeting world leaders and rock stars at the U.N. General Assembly. Jeez, what a collection.
And we`ll continue our series, "Exposed: The End of Oil," why we need to do everything we can to get oil out of the ground now before it disappears forever.
All this and more, tonight.
BECK: Hello, America.
The clock is ticking, as Congress prepares to vote on the federal rescue of the financial markets. By the way they`re using your money, in case you didn`t know that.
Depending on who you believe, the plan will cost as little as $700 billion -- bull crap -- or as much as $2 trillion. You guess which it`s going to be. So tonight, here`s "The Point."
As Congress heads towards this vote, special interests and lobbyist weasels are getting involved now and that is already -- that`s just going to take a tragic situation and just run it right into the wall. And here`s how I got there.
I really -- I really believe that you and I are not that different. We both care deeply about this country. I`m a conservative, you may be a liberal, but we both care about this country. Now maybe you don`t believe in the bailout. I get that. Man, I never have believed in any bailout. I believe that America is a place where you fail, you pull yourself back up, and that leads to success. Ask Einstein.
How many times did he -- Edison, how many times did he fail before he succeeded? One time? We need to slow this crisis down and prevent a crash into the side of a mountain, and that`s why I believe this bailout. I don`t think it`s going to fix things. I think it`s going to slow the crash down.
This is where I think we can unite, however. We cannot allow the attempt to turn this economic crisis around or slow it down to get loaded up with pork and political maneuvering. Where is the Mr. Smith in today`s Washington? Who`s going to put our country ahead of their political career? Where`s the person that has an ounce of courage?
I found out today that neither Barack Obama or John McCain are going to actually show up in Washington for the vote. You`re kidding me, right? You mean to tell me they want us to believe that they have the strength, the courage to lead this country, that they have the spine for the next four years to face the daunting task of running this place, and yet they can`t go on record with the bailout? We have a complete lack of leadership and moral responsibility on Wall Street and in Washington.
Tonight, America, here`s what you need to know. Congress should move quickly and decisively one way or another. We need to get control of this financial crisis as soon as we can, but here`s the thing. If Washington lets special interests screw thing up, the simplicity of this plan just for pork or for power. To quote Secretary Paulson from a few days ago, "Heaven help us all."
Stephen Moore is the senior economics writer for the "Wall Street Journal" editorial board and co-author of "The End of Prosperity." And Chris Frates, he is the reporter for the Politico.
Stephen, let me start with you. We haven`t had a chance to talk about this -- this whole thing. The system fails if we do nothing. I think the system fails if we do this, as well. It`s just a slower failure. Are you for this in any shape or form, Stephen?
STEPHEN MOORE, SENIOR ECONOMICS WRITER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": You know, it`s interesting. Forty-eight hours ago, Glenn, it looked like this pass -- this package of bailouts was just going to swiftly go through Congress, and we were going to get this thing all wrapped up. That ain`t happening, Glenn.
Today both Dick Cheney talked to the House Republicans, as you know, Paulson was in front of the Senate Banking Committee. They didn`t make the sale, Glenn. They tried to talk about it would be Armageddon, if they didn`t pass this package. A lot of people, a lot of members of Congress, weren`t buying it.
I ain`t buying it. I don`t think a $500 billion of $700 billion line of credit from taxpayer money to these banks is the solution to this crisis. And in fact, we had a big meltdown in the markets yesterday. This was supposed to calm the markets. It isn`t doing it.
BECK: See, here`s the problem, Stephen. I wouldn`t mind bringing Chris in on this either. I mean, we don`t have a democracy. We have a republic, which means that we don`t get the direct vote. We elect people to represent us. We don`t believe in any of these clowns, and it`s the same thing that`s happening on Wall Street right now.
The reason why none of this is helping is because there is a basic lack of trust of the players in Wall Street, and the players in Washington.
Chris, where do you stand?
CHRIS FRATES, REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, certainly I think, you know, the market is falling because of a lack of confidence in it, but I think if you take a look at what`s happening here in Washington is there`s a struggle right now with kind of what kinds of strings do you put on a bailout that`s $700 billion.
BECK: It`s not even -- we`ve got to stop saying it`s $700 billion. It`s not going to be even close to $700 billion when all is said and done.
FRATES: Well, you know, certainly there is some debate over what the final cost will be. You know the proposal is still floating around here, tagging the $700 billion number, because it was the first proposal put in writing. But as you point out, as this thing moves forward, I think we`re going to see how strong the special interests are in terms of getting what they want into this Bill.
MOORE: Glenn, when you talked about the fact that a lot of the members of Congress don`t have a lot of courage and they also don`t have a lot of understanding of this, because as you and I have been talking about for the last year on this program, the fundamental root cause of a lot of this financial crisis is runaway government and runaway debt.
So the idea that we`re going to have more government spending and more government debt to solve the problem, that just doesn`t add up. That`s like giving an alcoholic an extra drink.
BECK: Steve, do you think -- do you think I have a relatively decent handle on the economy and how it works?
MOORE: Well, more so than I thought you did.
MOORE: When we first met, you know, you sounded like a scaremonger but now you sound pretty impressive.
BECK: OK, I am a -- I am a self-educated guy. I am a recovering alcoholic. I was a deejay for most of my life. I`m a schlub. But you know what? I care about my country. I did my homework.
Where the hell are the leaders that are willing to do their homework? Where are these people? Here, which one of you? Chris, can you tell me about the legal aspect of this bailout, where -- where they`re actually saying judges should get involved now, and negotiate your interest rate at the end of the deal?
FRATES: Well, certainly, Democrats are talking about how can we help Main Street. And part of what they`d like to do is make sure that judges could look at mortgages and say, "Oh, you can`t afford that. Here`s what you can afford. We`ll help you pay for your house so you can afford the house," and then it doesn`t become a bad debt that the government has to take over.
MOORE: That`s going to make the crisis worse.
MOORE: Because what you do then is you have judges coming in, renegotiating contracts. Banks aren`t going to make any new loans under those kind of conditions.
BECK: Right. Stephen, again, this is the recovering alcoholic talking. But tell me if I`m right or wrong here. They won`t make the loans, because no one will be willing to get into uncertain waters with their money, where they may not get their investment back. They`ll just invest in something that is a sure thing or at least much more sure than this.
MOORE: And it brings to the crux of the problem in my opinion, Glenn. There has always been a mentality in Washington that everyone is a victim. And so the response of Washington is, people who took out these bad loans are victims, people who made the loans are victims. These poor shareholders are victims.
No, these are adults. They made these financial decisions on their own. Why should federal taxpayers have to bail out bad actors, and it comes, really, down to that. That`s why I think this plan may go down.
BECK: You know what? I have to tell you something, I am so sick of the victimhood in this country.
BECK: I am so sick -- you know, I was -- I spent a weekend with a guy that I know and admire so much. I had no idea -- this guy is a hero. I had no idea what this guy`s childhood was like. I mean, he -- his childhood is riddled with problems, problems that you would say, "Oh, my gosh."
If I told you his name, you would know his name, and you would know that the guy is an amazing person. I`m tired of being the victim. I`m tired of people saying they`re the victim. It`s what you choose to do with it.
And why is it that we have to pay for people who choose to screw up and then just go, "Oh, well, I guess I`m a victim. Help, please"? It`s ridiculous, and it`s un-American.
Chris, Stephen, thank you so much.
We have the vice-presidential nominee now of the Republican Party, Sarah Palin. She`s in New York. She`s meeting at the United Nations, and she`s meeting with world leaders. Really? Is this -- I mean is this going to silence people who say, "Oh, she has no idea. She`s a soccer mom or a hockey mom"?
Plus, Bill Clinton dishes the dirt with the ladies on "The View" and tells them that Hillary never really wanted the VP job. It`s not only that, that he said. You will not believe. He actually took a few subtle shots at Obama.
And we will continue our weeklong series, "Exposed: The End of Oil." Oil prices are soaring once again. We continue to do nothing but listen to politicians blab and talk about it. We`ll have some answers for you coming up.
BECK: Anybody notice the price of oil? Kind of weird. We seem to have forgotten all about the whole energy thing. Alternative energy ideas, maybe we should be still looking into that and drilling. We should be drilling through anything and everything to get the oil that`s left, and that includes polar bears` heads. I`m just saying.
We should also be leading the world -- that`s what America does -- in energy innovation. That is the subject of tonight`s "Exposed: The End of Oil" And it`s coming up in just a second.
But first, Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin is in New York for the next few days meeting with the heads of state and political heavyweights as she tries to buff up on her foreign policy credentials.
And stand back: she`s managed to meet with a guy who has actually rock star status. No, no, not Obama but Bono. Yes.
As for the woman who might have been the Democratic VP nominee, former president, Bill Clinton, tells ABC`s "The View" that his wife, Hillary, didn`t even really want the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": Let`s start at the beginning. Did Senator Clinton really want to be vice president, and did you want her to be vice president?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not really, no. She said that if he asks, I`ll do it because it`s my duty. But I think -- look, she loves being a senator from New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: I believed him all the way up until that last line.
Joining me now with their thoughts on this and more, Stephen Hayes, senior writer for "The Weekly Standard," author of "Cheney, The Untold Story: America`s Most Powerful and Controversial Vice President." And Cristin Patti, GOP pollster and vice president at Wilson Research.
OK, guys, who wants to take on -- well, let me start with this. Let me -- while we`re on Hillary Clinton here, the Hillary Clinton speech that she was going to give about, you know, anti-Ahmadinejad and then she wouldn`t do it as long as Palin was also going to give a speech, why can`t these two get together? Why can`t people get together left and right and say, "You know what? We`re both going to give a speech on Iran, and you know, that`s OK"?
I`ve been at parties before, where you know, the person didn`t agree with me. What`s the problem with that?
CRISTIN PATTI, VICE PRESIDENT, WILSON RESEARCH: I think that Hillary Clinton doesn`t want to do anything that`s going to upset the Obama campaign or the party leaders with the Democrats. And she may have her eye on in the future for 2012. But right now she`s just following -- she`s toeing the party line, and she`s following the rules.
BECK: OK. Hang on just a second. Steve, do you -- do you buy that? I mean, did you see her husband on "The View"?
STEPHEN HAYES, AUTHOR, "CHENEY, THE UNTOLD STORY": Yes. No, actually I do buy that. I mean, what was interesting to me about the withdrawal from this Iran event, is that they said they had to withdraw because it would be a partisan event. But unless I`m wrong when Sarah Palin is there and Hillary Clinton is there, that would make it a bipartisan event.
BECK: It would be bipartisan. Yes.
HAYES: Not a partisan event.
PATTI: Absolutely. Absolutely.
BECK: I have -- see, I have a problem with both of your answers here that she wants to toe the party line. She does want to toe the party line, but she also wants to be bigger than the party line, and that`s what`s happening with Bill Clinton. Let me give you -- let me give you a few pieces of this appearance on "The View."
Here is -- here`s cut one. Watch -- watch what Bill Clinton is saying here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": Who`s going to win the election, Obama or McCain?
CLINTON: I believe Obama will win.
WALTERS: Would you ever have said McCain will win?
CLINTON: No, because I`m a loyal Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: See, look at that. "Would you have said that" -- first of all, he pauses. This is -- quite honestly, it seemed to be one of the most genuine interviews I`d ever seen with this man. He pauses, and then he said, would you have said that? "No, because I`m a loyal Democrat."
I mean, what is he doing here? This is not toeing the party line. This isn`t helping. Either of you guys think this is helpful for Obama?
HAYES: Glenn, the difference is this is Bill and that`s Hillary. And I think she has to be seen right now as being a team player, as being somebody who`s at least on the surface pushing for Barack Obama`s election.
Bill doesn`t feel that way. He`s sort of unhinged. Nobody`s governing Bill Clinton anymore. He does and says what he wants. And it`s hurting the Obama campaign. The most striking thing about "The View" interview, I thought, was, in all of the time that he talked, he never game a full-throated, warm embrace of Barack Obama, his party`s nominee.
BECK: No, but he did do this. Here`s the second cut. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: The American people, for good and sufficient reasons, admire him. And he`s given something in life that the rest of us can`t match.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: By the way that`s not Obama; that`s McCain. I mean, Cristin, I mean, this guy is doing everything he can to make McCain look good and Obama, is "hmm."
PATTI: I think he`s in a situation right now where he doesn`t have the choice that he wants, obviously, his wife. So when he doesn`t have the choice, he`s choosing to have a bad attitude about it. He`s very grudgingly supporting Obama. He -- I think it goes back to toeing the party line, but he is very much not walking away from an endorsement of John McCain.
There`s no question that he`s not on Obama`s team, but he`s very, very high on John McCain.
BECK: OK, here`s the last -- here`s the last piece of this. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What do you think about the press saying that -- or the statistics, really, on the polling saying that a lot of Hillary`s supporters are now throwing their support behind McCain because of Sarah Palin. Do you think that`s a legitimate claim?
CLINTON: I think some are, because -- look, we all know this. Some - - voting is a complicated process. We give our allegiances to candidates and parties and issues for all kinds of reasons. We vote for some people because we like them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Again, this is not helpful.
HAYES: It`s not. You know what`s so funny about this, is I finished seeing parts of that interview, and I read chunks of the transcript. So I immediately called an adviser to John McCain.
And I said, you know, "Here`s Bill Clinton again, as he was last week, not really endorsing or embracing Barack Obama, and saying nice things about John McCain, and Sarah Palin. What do you guys think when Bill Clinton speaks?"
And this guy, an adviser to McCain said, "He`s helpful to us. We like him out there. The more he`s out there, the better this is for us."
BECK: And here`s the thing. I really, truly believe that they know - - first of all, I don`t think the Clintons like Barack Obama. I don`t think they believe he is the answer.
I think, for the first time maybe in their careers, as a conservative saying this, the first time in their careers they actually are showing that they really, truly believe something. And what they believe is that the country is in the middle and not at the extreme left.
And I think they know whoever gets in there is dead, politically speaking, because they`re going to be facing all kinds of problems. Let John McCain have it. To (ph) Barack Obama so she can then chastise the left and the Democrats and say, "You moved too far left. That`s not where America is." And she will be the new leader of the Democratic Party.
PATTI: I agree full-heartedly. I think that Hillary and Bill have quite the plan. They`ve always been crafting plans, and that seems on point.
BECK: Stephen, never, ever bet against the Clintons. They don`t lose. It just might take them some time.
HAYES: Yes, that -- I think that`s good advice. I mean, I think it`s a risk -- it`s a difficult line she`s got to toe here, because she needs to be seen as being helpful, at least on the surface. Democrats have to feel like Hillary, at least, is being helpful.
BECK: There`s not a soul in America that doesn`t believe those two talk every day. They are a team. Thanks, guys.
Coming up, the new book "Tsar" shares an inside look at how former Russian president, Vladimir Putin, single-handedly changed the face of Russia, and it ain`t for the better, gang. Author Ted Bell stops by, shares the details.
And what happens if suddenly we run out of oil? What happens if, you know, I don`t know, we have a problem with war? We have a contingency plan, right? Wrong! Coming up, "Exposed: The End of Oil."
BECK: I said on this program before that you need to read history; you need to keep abreast of current events. But the best way to see over the horizon on what`s coming is go down the fiction aisle and read some of the authors that we showcase on this program from time to time.
Ted Bell is a good friend of mine. He is the author of "Hawk," "Spy," "Assassin"...
TED BELL, AUTHOR, "TSAR": "Pirate."
BECK: "Pirate" and a million others. And the new one that is coming out today is going to be another -- another No. 1 best-seller for you, "Tsar."
BECK: It is the best of the books in the series...
BELL: Thank you.
BECK: ... for "Hawk." It`s really good. And you don`t have to read the other ones to get this one.
You said to me two years ago, you said, "Glenn, you`ve got to pay attention to what`s going on in Russia." There is a gathering storm in Russia, started to pay attention to it. You`re absolutely right. You said that, because you were over in Russia doing research for this book.
BELL: Exactly. I was just starting to work on the book and the things I was picking up were scary. And I told you, you`ve got to start looking at Russia, because they`re next. It`s the next problem.
BECK: Right, you said at the time that Putin is going to cobble this thing back together. This is two years ago. You were over there on the ground. What was it that you saw or...?
BELL: It`s because I read a ton of biographies of Putin to get ready to write this book. And I realized he`s a career KGB guys, and the KGB guys are not interested in democracy and in some human rights. They don`t care about anything but power.
And I knew that once Putin got in there and consolidated power he would try to rebuild Russia into a world power because they are, they were humiliated by their loss in the Cold War. They think we spent ten years sort of, you know, making fun of them. And he was, he wanted revenge.
BECK: Are the people feeling that way, Ted, or is it just the leadership?
BELL: I think -- no, I think there`s a certain amount -- Putin has got an 80 percent approval rating.
BECK: I know.
BELL: I think the people are feeling it a little bit. They felt like, you know, that we sort of...
BECK: Abandoned them.
BELL: Abandoned them.
BECK: We always do the same thing. We win the war and we lose the peace.
BELL: Well, right after the collapse of the Soviet Union, everything was American rock `n` roll. We built a McDonald`s. They wore western clothes. Now it`s considered not cool to have anything to do with America or to listen to American music. Or...
BELL: They are lined up against us.
BECK: Right, OK, so the market`s crashing. There`s nothing more dangerous than a country in collapse, you know what I mean? And that`s -- Russia, I mean, collapsed originally because of the plunging price of oil. These guys are not going to -- they`re starting to make alliances with some of our worst enemies.
BELL: Hugo and the scary one for me is China. If they form an alliance with China it`s a huge problem for us. As much as I dislike the Chinese government, I think we ought to be in there, and I sort of touch on that in "Tsar."
BECK: In "Tsar" you -- I mean, it is a fantastic read. It is -- you actually have Putin in the nastiest prison I have ever read.
BELL: Pretty bad place. You don`t want to go from.
BECK: It was built on toxic waste?
BELL: Yes. The Russian navy`s toxic waste dump. It was a prison built on that. Fifty years of nuclear waste from their submarines.
BECK: Yes. You`ve never read anything quite like "tsar." It is -- I mean, I called you, what -- I was 100 pages away from the end of the book. And I said, "This is fantastic."
And you said, "How far are you before the end?"
And I said, "About 100 pages."
You said, "You don`t know how it ends yet, do you?"
And I said, "No." Unbelievable. Great. It`s very great. Very good. Available at book stores everywhere. Ted, thank you very much.
BELL: Thanks, Glenn.
BECK: It is "Tsar." You`re going to love it.
Coming up, what happens when all the world`s oil wells dry up? Find out as we continue our weeklong series "Exposed: End of Oil," next.
BECK: Well, welcome to our week long series "Exposed: The End of Oil." With oil prices moving back closer to $100 a barrel mark you`ve probably noticed the panic in Washington has all of a sudden died down. Nobody`s talking about it. Maybe because Washington is still playing Whack-a-Mole and the electronic mole is currently, "Oh my gosh, it`s the economy is bad; quick, everybody, pay attention to this."
But that`s exactly why we should be talking about energy right now. As this financial meltdown proves, solutions to massive problems shouldn`t be developed during times of panic and fear. They should be developed when things are normal or at least as normal as $100 oil has now become.
But while we wait patiently, I guess, for new technologies to develop, there are two important rules that we have to follow. Rule number one is we have to allow the government to set the table but not ever serve the food. Set the table and get the hell out of the kitchen.
I know that I complain about politicians a lot on this program. I think I have a pretty good reason, but the truth is that fostering development of new energy technologies is one role that the government should play. They should set the rules so everybody knows what the framework is.
Then the market has to decide what eventually wins and what loses, not the politicians. Otherwise we end up with a little something that efficiently powers lobbyists and not cars, like corn ethanol. Call me crazy.
Second rule is to stop pretending that the first rule is going to be quick or easy. It`s not. We should know from experience that government almost always screws things up, and even if they don`t, we still have to deal with the spotted owl lovers who are like oh, and they can no longer sit in those beautiful trees.
Oh, shut the pie hole.
We are a long way away from having realistic solutions to choose from which leaves right now oil as the one and only short term treatment that will keep us alive while we should be working hard for a life-saving transplant.
Today in New York, in the "New York Times," Exxon Mobil which just might be the most evil company in America, they ran a full-page ad. In it they claimed that there is enough oil and natural gas in the non-wilderness areas -- the spotted owl -- that are currently off limits to drill for fuel, 50 million cars, it will fuel 50 million cars, heat 100 million homes for the next 25 years.
Now, that`s not nearly enough to stop our kids or grandkids from fighting in which will be nonstop energy wars, but it is more than enough to buy us the one thing we`re running out of just as fast as oil and that is time.
Edwin Black is the author of "The Plan." Edwin, you say democracy -- fuel democracy should be the rule. What exactly does that mean?
EDWIN BLACK, AUTHOR OF "THE PLAN": Well the fuel democracy that I`ve called for mandates that our country take whatever good alternative fuel and propulsion method is best at hand, whether that`s compressed natural gas, whether that is sugar cane ethanol, where that is methanol, whether that is bio-fuel, second generation bio-fuel. That is the way that we will get off of oil, and that really calls for an open fuel standard, a flex fuel standard and what`s more important is that our nation is completely unprepared for an oil interruption.
BECK: Edwin, please, talk about that just a little bit, because I don`t think people understand. The straits of Hormuz; that is right off of the coast of Iran, just Iran just said deciding to say we`re just going to make sure we shut this down. That would, what would that mean to America and our economy?
BLACK: The Strait of Hormuz is the only place that can kill America. It is two miles wide in each direction. It is right off the coast of Iran, going underneath the pockmarked caves of Iran which is rich with silk worms, exsiccate missiles, the Al Qaeda is there. If the Strait of Hormuz is blocked, it`ll block 40 percent of all sea-borne oil, 18 percent of the global supply and 15 percent to 20 percent eventually of America`s supply.
This country is not ready for that. No one in the country is even discussing it and the facts are that America uses approximately 20 million barrels of oil a day, about 65 percent to 70 percent of which is imported.
If we lose just 1 million barrels a day, 1 million barrels a day, that`s 5 percent. It`ll open up the strategic petroleum reserves such as they did after Katrina and that`s just a six to eight-week supply of unrefined crude oil.
Now, if we lose 1.5 million barrels a day, just 7 percent, we will be in such dire straits, we`ll have to call upon our allies in Poland and the Czech Republic to open their strategic petroleum reserves.
If we lose 2 million barrels a day, just 10 percent for a protracted period of time, say more than 30 days, according to the government, the oil crisis monitors, and everyone I`ve spoken to, it`ll be "Mad Max: Neighbor Against Neighbor."
BECK: Perfect, Edwin, thank you very much.
Now, a lot of people, and I happen to be one of them, actually believe that the Soviet Union collapsed because of a never-ending war, out of control spending, which we pushed them into, and falling oil prices that crippled their economy, gosh, doesn`t that sound familiar?
We now have a unique opportunity, not only to prevent ourselves from following that same path, but actually use this to our advantage, a national moon-shot program for energy.
Tom Friedman is a columnist for the "New York Times" and author of "Hot, Flat and Crowded." Tom, I got to tell you, in your book, you talk about what collapsed the Soviet Union. I`ve been saying it since 9/11. Barack -- Barack?
Osama bin Laden actually came out and said what I will do to the Soviet Union, what I did to the Soviet Union I will do to America. We are following the same path.
TOM FRIEDMAN, AUTHOR, "HOT, FLAT AND CROWDED": Well, the whole theme in my book really is, Glenn that we are on the birth -- we`re on the eve, I think of a new technological revolution. As the world gets hot, global warming flat, the rise in the middle classes all over the world, consuming like we do, and crowded, just population explosion, the demand for fossil fuels is going to go through the roof.
What that means is that there is a new revolution born here. I call it the E.T. revolution, the energy technology revolution. We need a bridge to get there and we`re going to need fossil fuels to get there to get that bridge but the country that claims that revolution that, owns E.T. is not just going to have the most electric power. It`s going to have the most national power and that has to be the United States of America.
BECK: Ok, but you`re saying that if all if we could just be China for a day and part of me says yes, wouldn`t it be nice, because it`s well first of all, what do you mean by that?
FRIEDMAN: What I mean by that is boy, you look at how our Congress works. Our government doesn`t work today, Glenn. It can not solve any big multigenerational problem like energy.
You said it in the introduction. Our energy policies today is the sum of all lobbies. You cannot get a strategic launch of a new industry without government really directing it from the top. That`s what I mean.
BECK: This is why in the 1920s the people in the United States loved Mussolini. Because before he started throwing his hat with Hitler, the guy made the country move and that`s what everybody loved.
We cannot do that. So I don`t want Mussolini. How do we solve it Tom, I mean everybody knows what`s coming, everybody knows we`re in trouble. What do we do?
FRIEDMAN: My motto in the book, is change your leaders, not your light bulbs. I mean without leaders, what leaders --
BECK: I love that.
FRIEDMAN: Leaders are critical because they write the rules, Glenn. You see, I am totally in which, I am against Manhattan projects, I`m against big government projects.
I think we have the greatest innovation engine that God ever created, it`s called the U.S. marketplace in which government has a very limited but critical role. Shape the prices, the rule standards and regulations, you will get an explosion of innovation in this country, if we do that.
BECK: Ok, so where are those leaders, Tom? Because they`ll all say it.
BECK: They`ll all say it, but they don`t -- I mean you could look at the Republicans, they say they`re for small government, they get in and they have big government. You would see, we`re going to have an ethical Congress and we`re going to have you got Charlie Rangel, I don`t do anything about it. It doesn`t matter. They both do the same thing. So where do we find them?
FRIEDMAN: Until we as voters basically punish people who don`t go down that route.
BECK: But wait a minute, but Tom, we can`t punish -- the way we punish them is we vote them out, which means we have to put somebody else in.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, I realize that. Look, we have a leadership vacuum today. I wish I could wave a magic wand and tell you it`s her or it`s him.
Nobody out there today, you know, has my confidence, that I think boy, if they got in, I know that they would put in place the right prices, standards and regulations to launch the E.T. revolution but that`s what we got to have. And hopefully it`s not going to take an even bigger crisis to get us there.
BECK: What happens, well, how far away are we from a real true energy crisis? I think if Iran was bombed by Israel, we would be at an energy crisis overnight. Agree or disagree?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, as your previous guest said, the international oil market is quite tight right now. And now, if we go into recession, things loosen up but it`s really pretty tight. So the loss of any major producer, whether it`s called Iran, Iraq, Russia, for any period of time is going to send oil prices through the roof.
BECK: Ok, and with this, with this economy that we`re in right now, can we afford to do as a nation -- again, I think your answer is private industry -- can we afford as a nation to do these gigantic proposals like the Manhattan project?
FRIEDMAN: Well, I don`t believe in those kinds of things. I believe that what we can afford to do as a nation is put a floor price under gasoline, a floor price under oil, make it so the renewables are credibly competitive. And when do you that, you will see 100,000 innovators, go into 100,000 garages, try 100,000 things, 1,000 of which will be really cool, 100 of which will be promising and two, I am certain it will be the next green Google and green Microsoft.
BECK: Ok, Tom I`d like to spend some more time with you. Thank you very much we`ll have you back.
FRIEDMAN: Any time.
BECK: That is the next the day in our "End of Oil" series.
Tomorrow we have a special live call-in hour with former big oil executive John Hoffmeister. Good guy, frank speaker. This is a chance for you to ask that oil executive, the question that you`ve always wanted to answered. Don`t miss it, tomorrow night a full hour of your phone calls with the ex-head of Shell Oil, live right here tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. Eastern on "Headline News."
Coming up, United Nations General Assembly and Ben Stein? Coming up next.
BECK: You know in case you were wondering, or gee I wonder if it`s possible where all of the world leaders could just gather in one place and do absolutely nothing the answer would be yes, that`s what they`re doing today. Surprise, surprise.
The United Nations General Assembly is meeting here in New York and boy, on the top of their list is screw up traffic and then I think have lunch.
Among the expected highlights, President Bush said his last goodbyes, Iran`s president, Ahmadinejad, stopped by, to say hello, by the way I`m going to vaporize Israel. It was fun and games, it really was.
Joining me now is the man who has been around a few foreign leaders to himself is writer and commentary Ben Stein. How are you doing, Ben?
BEN STEIN, CREATOR, "EXPELLED NO INTELLIGENCE ALLOWED": And roger that, roger that. I roger that.
BECK: Ben, can you think of a bigger waste of building space than the United Nations?
STEIN: Well, Congress. No, no, Congress is vital. Congress is vital. Well, the thing is that Congress has that incredibly beautiful building, whereas the U.N. is not such a beautiful building.
STEIN: I think the U.N. is famous for being time-wasting, expensive, corrupt, favors dictators. A few years ago when they put Libya and Iran and Syria on their Anti-Terrorism Committee, and on their Human Rights Committee, I think that was the icing on the cake. They haven`t been much good for an awfully long time.
BECK: So Sarkozy comes with his really hot wife. And she is hot, who is hotter, is the president of France`s wife hotter than Sarah Palin?
STEIN: Oh, much, much hotter, and in a different way. I personally if I was going to go on a cross-country trip it would rather be with Sarah Palin. I don`t like these razor thin model types at all, not one bit.
BECK: Yes. Are there a lot of razor thin model types that are beating down your door?
STEIN: Oh, you really are a miserable creep. As a matter of fact, you would be a little bit surprised, after all, you are the rich one, but I am the famous brain.
BECK: Oh please, Ok here`s the thing. Palin was at the U.N. today. Ahmadinejad was at the U.N. today.
STEIN: I know, it`s really hilarious.
BECK: Yes, the guy has, if you noticed how arrogant he has gotten?
STEIN: He`s been mentally ill his whole life. I mean he was one of the guys who took the American Embassy personnel hostage. He`s been a difficult trouble-making guy all of his life.
The real scandal which I think should never be forgotten, he was brought here to speak to an American University after he has been proud of executing children, of executing women who have done such things as being raped and after he has threatened to vaporize, as you so well put it, Israel.
I mean this guy has no shame whatsoever. This guy is another Hitler and he was invited to speak at Columbia University, my alma mater.
BECK: And yet France, besides having the hot wife there, wants countries like China now to be included in the Security Council, another country that really doesn`t have a, I mean not as bad as Iran.
STEIN: Well, I thought China was already on the Security Council. But if it`s not --
BECK: No, go ahead.
STEIN: I thought it was but if it`s not, I mean it`s a gigantic power. It probably shouldn`t be on the Security Council. After all Stalin`s Russia was on the Security Council and they were probably the worst human rights violator of all time.
BECK: I`m sorry not the Security Council but the G8. We`re sitting here with the G8, we`ve already got Russia on there and now we`re think about putting China on there.
STEIN: Well, why not? Because I mean these international entities are by and large use us. They`re just an opportunity for people to have meetings in fabulous resorts.
BECK: Obstructions, obstructions, hang on just a second, Ben if you could hold on just a second.
I want to come back to you in just a second, but I have to get to the "Real Americans brought to us by CSX tonight.
Anybody who loves horseback riding knows the importance of a relationship between the horse and the rider. For a special group of young riders the bond is actually life-changing, watch.
BECK: Archie really isn`t used to all of this attention. Most afternoons he just does his job quietly, prodding, jumping, most importantly giving kids who need it most a serious boost of confidence.
Archie is one of 20 donated horses, all part of the "Horseability Program," a unique riding facility on Long Island where kids and adults with disabilities can get their chance to ride a horse. For many of the students here it`s an opportunity they never even knew it was available.
Katie McGowan is the founder.
KATIE MCGOWAN, HORSABILITY PROGRAM FOUNDER: I lent my horse to a physical therapist for her to utilize the horse as the total treatment for a client of hers that had cerebral policy and I volunteered to help and I volunteered my horse. And after I saw this young lady get off the horse I was amazed at the difference of her walking gait and her ability. It was quite incredible and that moment is when I said this is what I need to be doing in life.
BECK: That was 15 years ago and Katie never looked back. With the team of therapists and specially trained instructors, students at Horsability can get the full riding experience. It`s not just about the physical therapy. It`s really emotional therapy as well.
MCGOWAN: Horses are magical. They have a wonderful ability to understand the rider that`s on their backs.
BECK: The program is geared to students of all ages who have disabilities ranging from cerebral policy, muscular dystrophy to autism. For students here, their four-legged friends are great equalizers.
MCGOWAN: The social aspect that they get and the emotional connection they have with their animal is pretty amazing, because the animal is non- judgmental. So the animal doesn`t say to them when they walk up to them, why are you on crutches, why are you in a wheelchair?
The animals say it`s great to see you, they perk up their ears, their eyes get bright, they`re excited to see their rider and that is just now the fact giving the individual with great joy.
BECK: And for Charlie Moeler, the weekly riding lesson has become more than a hobby. It`s an accomplishment.
CHARLIE MOELER, STUDENT: I ride every week. Yes. So every Sunday. Yes, and I`ve been doing it for a long time.
BECK: Tonight`s "Real America" sponsored by CSX; it`s how tomorrow moves.
BECK: Now, back with writer and commentator and a man who spends an awful lot of time in Idaho, Ben Stein.
BECK: You`re part of one of those militias up there, aren`t you Ben?
STEIN: Yes, I am; People Zionist-militia.
BECK: What do you think about the bailout? First of all is it going to happen?
STEIN: It`ll happen in some form and the worst part of it the idea of giving legal immunity. No Congressional oversight, no administrative oversight and worst of all, no judicial oversight. The people who are handling the bailout that`s illegal and unconstitutional. I`ve never heard of in peace time people getting immunity from legal oversight. That`s unheard of.
Second, I don`t like the idea of bailing out Paulson`s Wall Street buddies. If we`re going to do the bailout let`s start at bottom and bailout the people whose houses are being foreclosed upon and didn`t work out for them.
BECK: Are you for this bailout, you sound like you`re against it?
STEIN: I am for a bailout, but not a bailout that goes down from the top that hits the Wall Street buddies system and then trickles down.
BECK: What happens -- what is your opinion on what happens if it doesn`t pass?
STEIN: There`ll be more financial problems. There`s -- this financial catastrophe was caused by Wall Street, unforeseen by Paulson, one of the biggest powers on Wall Street, unforeseen by Paulson when he was Treasury Secretary. I don`t know why we`re trusting him --
BECK: Don`t you think that this is -- don`t you think that`s a little shortsighted? This thing -- I mean, we saw this, gosh, Ben -- this hasn`t been caused by Wall Street.
This is caused by, quite honestly, I believe, by greed in Washington of making sure that they hold on to power, making sure that they get everybody in a House. I got somebody with no hands, leprosy, only one eye, never worked and only makes $10 every ten years.
Why can`t they get a loan for their house, and politicians help them do it.
STEIN: I agree. That was the impetus that got this whole scandal rolling.
STEIN: There`s no doubt about that, Glenn. But once it was rolling, it was the side bets, the credit default swaps, the derivatives and really ruined things. The credit default swaps are ten times the loss of the mortgages.
BECK: So, Ben, do you believe -- do you believe that we are headed for real, hard, economic crash, if this thing doesn`t pass, or if it does pass, it snowballs even some more?
STEIN: I think there could be a very serious melt down in the financial system. But that won`t cause a depression, at least I hope not.
But I think the financial system is basically playing Russian roulette and the bullet came up, and they never thought it would and now they`re trying to stop the bullet as it`s rushing through the chamber or rushing down the barrel to try to stop it.
BECK: Yes, ok, Ben thanks a lot we`ll talk again my friend.
STEIN: Thank you sir, thank you.
BECK: You bet.
From New York, good night America.