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Insight

Billy Graham Prepares to Step Down

Aired June 28, 2005 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY GRAHAM, EVANGELIST: We've been worshiping other Gods. We've been worshiping the Gods of money.

JONATHAN MANN, CNN HOST (voice-over): The American apostle. After six decades leading a mass media ministry from Manhattan to Madras, Billy Graham is stepping back, arguably the best-known preacher on the planet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Hello and welcome.

Think of him this way. Billy Graham was drawing capacity crowds around the world when John Paul II was still a junior professor in Poland. He brought 120,000 people to London's Wembley Stadium when Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the current head of Britain's Anglican Church, was still in grade school. And unlike either man, he didn't inherit the leadership of a centuries-old institution. He created his own, broadcast it through the media into the U.S. mainstream, and exported it to the world.

Now 86 and ailing, Graham has announced he is just about done.

On our program today, the gospel according to Billy Graham. We begin with CNN's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For nearly 70 years now, the power of his words and the passion in his voice have rallied more than 210 million people to his revivals and when he issues his invitation, a call to come forward and accept Christ, the crowds line up to answer.

He began as the pastor of a small church near Chicago, but he was an evangelist at heart and so he took his message out to the masses. Whenever he pitched his tent, the people came.

GRAHAM: We have not come here to the city of London to save England.

COOPER: But perhaps we see his true power in his personal relationships with U.S. presidents.

JIMMY CARTER, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: I think all of us felt in the time of greatest challenge and responsibility of our public lives that would be the presidency, that we needed some Christian or religious counseling from a completely trustworthy and objective and clear source.

COOPER: In 1950 Graham called on President Truman to ask for an appointment. Every president since has called on him for spiritual advice. But his friendship with former President Richard Nixon caused him embarrassment when one of their conversations was caught on tape, a conversation laced with anti-Semitic slurs.

GRAHAM: A lot of the Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me, they're friends with me, because they know that I'm a friend of Israel. But what they don't know is how I really feel about what they're doing to this country.

COOPER: When the tapes were released in 2000, Graham apologized, kept away from politics and stuck to praying with the presidents. He was one man Bill Clinton called for counseling when the Monica Lewinski affair was revealed.

His power is also apparent in the respect shown to him by other evangelists. Many still look to Graham for inspiration.

JOEL OSTEEN, EVANGELIST: He is a hero to us all. I mean, his life of integrity, somebody that can stick with it for that long and just stick with his message.

COOPER: His powerful voice has weakened now, but even in the twilight of his amazing career, the faithful will fill this park to hear the preacher and feel the power of the word.

GRAHAM: I just feel that my issue is the gospel of Christ, that God loves you and that God is willing to forgive you. Put your trust in him, and I think that's my message.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MANN: Billy Graham began his career at a different time in American life. One small example we should probably explain, he's long called his prayer meetings and visits crusades, and he still does at a time when some Christians choose to avoid that word because of its historical connotation to Muslims.

Graham won't be using the word much anymore. This weekend he was preaching in New York City for probably the last time.

Alina Cho was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man who was once called God's machinegun is softer and slower these days, but his message six decades later is still the same.

GRAHAM: I'm going to ask you to come now and receive him into your heart.

CHO: The 86-year-old preacher, sick with Parkinson's disease and prostate cancer, calls this his last crusade in America. Terry Veazey and wife Georgia traveled here from Montgomery, Alabama.

TERRY VEAZEY, CRUSADE ATTENDEE: At the hotel this morning I was reading from his autobiography about the '57 crusade and as I thought about today could be the final service of his North American ministry, I began to cry.

CHO: Veazey attended that 1957 crusade. It was also in New York. Graham was 38; Veazey was 3.

VEAZEY: I really don't remember anything accept some 8 mm films that my mom and dad filmed of the outside of Madison Square Garden. That's about all I remember.

HEBER REVILA, CRUSADE ATTENDEE: It's almost like a dream come true. I've always wanted to see him.

CHO: Heber Revila is 19. His father is a pastor and says he likes Billy Graham because he preaches a simple yet modern message.

REVILA: He was once my age as well, and, you know, he can speak to anybody who is 80, to anybody who's 19.

CHO: Over the weekend, Dr. Graham mentioned Madonna, Bono and MTV. The man who was first invited to the White House by Truman had in his house on this final crusade the Clintons. But America's pastor has the common touch. Why Bonnie Reedy (ph) came with her family.

BONNIE REEDY (ph), CRUSADE ATTENDEE: I heard a thing on the news last night, take the seventh train to heaven. And we're here.

CHO: An estimated 230,000 people flocked to an open field to see Reverend Graham. The three-day revival was part prayer, sermon and song.

GRAHAM: I was asked in an interview if this was our last crusade. I said it probably is, in New York. But I also said, I never say never.

CHO (on camera): Reverend Graham is considering an invitation to preach in London this fall. He says he loves London, loves to preach there and is prayerfully considering the offer.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MANN: We take a break now. When we come back, why one minister matters so much to so many people.

Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's bittersweet, but at the same time we honor him and we respect him and we know that his family will continue on with the message. It's a happy moment, but it's also a sad moment, to see him go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's had a wonderful time, that he's gotten to see so many people and send that message out to so many people, and I know that there are others that are going to carry on. The message never dies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MANN (voice-over): Over the years, other evangelists have followed in Billy Graham's path, using the media to spread their message. But some of the most prominent have been tainted by scandal. For Jimmy Swaggart, it was prostitutes and pornography. For Jim Baker it was his secretary and other people's money. Oral Roberts may be forever remembered for telling his followers that God would take him home if they didn't donate enough cash.

ORAL ROBERTS, EVANGELIST: If you and enough people will send me $100 immediately, I need some very quick money. I mean, I need it now. I'm desperate to turn this around.

MANN: Jerry Farwell blamed feminists, lesbians and homosexuals for the attacks of September 11, 2001.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Welcome back.

The Evangelical Church was once considered close to the margins of U.S. religious life. It is now the mainstream with millions of followers. And while some colorful characters still come and go, Billy Graham became a widely respected establishment figure who led other evangelicals into the establishment too.

Joining us now to talk about his role is William Martin, a sociologist at Rice University and author of "A Prophet With Honor: The Billy Graham Story."

Thanks so much for being with us.

Let me ask you first of all, what makes him so special?

WILLIAM MARTIN, AUTHOR: Well, of course, one thing is that he has avoided scandal for the last 60 years of his ministry. But probably the most important thing in the viewpoint of history is, you mentioned that evangelicalism was once on the margin and no one played a greater role in bringing evangelicalism from the margin to the point now that it represents one of the most dynamic and one of the largest movements in American Christianity and in Christianity around the world.

And his wise and visionary leadership played a crucial role in that. Of course he wasn't the only person, but he played a role that it is difficult to see how it could have done what it did without him.

MANN: What did he do? How did he do it?

MARTIN: Well, he, for one thing, as has been mentioned, he established friendships with the presidents, and so it gave evangelicals a sense of pride, that their most well-known preacher was also a friend of presidents.

But he did other things. He established "Christianity Today" magazine in 1956, which became the flagship of evangelical Christianity and gave it greater respectability. He held worldwide conferences of evangelicals, which brought them together, gave them a sense of themselves, not only -- not as an embattled people but as a movement of considerable significance.

And then in more recent years, his organization has sponsored training programs for itinerant ministers that have literally trained tens of thousands of evangelists from all over the world, so that there are little Billy Grahams out preaching the gospel throughout the world.

MANN: I want to ask you about his use of the media, because he was on television, I guess, back in the late '40s. He's been preaching in arenas and stadiums and enormous open fields, doing the kinds of things a lot of people these days associate with John Paul II. Did he essentially invent that kind of media ministry?

MARTIN: Well, he used media in an extremely efficient and wise way, much wiser than some others did. But it's difficult to say that he -- it's not right to say that he invented it because there were radio preachers, particularly during the '20s and '30s and '40s, who were really quite significant. And if you go back even to the 1800s and the time of Charles Finney (ph) in 1835, around there, Finney (ph), of course, didn't have the media that we have, but he advocated using whatever methods of advertising and that sort of thing that were available.

But Graham did use media. He's used satellite television. He has used every sort of medium that was available that he thought could extend his own reach. So he's been quite creative with it. I think, personally, more than others have been, and more efficient.

MANN: How would you compare him to other religious figures around the world today or in other times? Are there parallels you could draw?

MARTIN: Well, there are certainly important religious figures. You have mentioned the pope, Pope John Paul has been a significant figure. There are many -- really too many to mention. But there are many very capable and important leaders around the world.

But certainly Billy Graham, over the past half century, has been the most prominent and important preacher, among Protestants particularly.

MANN: Let me ask you about his politics. Once again, dropping the comparisons with John Paul II, who was a very political pope, Billy Graham spent an awful lot of time, or at least seemed to, in the company of presidents? How did he use his influence? Was he very political?

MARTIN: Well, it varied from age to age. In the 1950s he was close to Eisenhower. He did run some errands, carried messages for Eisenhower when he was on his crusades. But he didn't have probably significant influence there.

During the '60s and in the early '70s with Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon, he got more involved behind the scenes and sometimes in front of the scenes, supporting them, giving his support to their causes and in Nixon's case particularly working pretty assiduously to help Nixon get elected.

And, of course, that particular association caused him a lot of difficulty, because when Nixon, after Watergate and then more recently with the release of the tapes that have been played earlier about anti-Semitic remarks, this has been a continuing embarrassment, and it caused him to recognize that he needed to draw back, that it was easy for a minister to be manipulated by a president, that that White House lemonade can be mighty intoxicating.

And he recommended in the late '70s, when people were getting involved in the Christian right, that ministers be very careful about doing that, because it was easy for them to be manipulated, and he has stayed away. He was a good friend of Ronald Reagan and also of both Bushes and of President Clinton, but he claims that he never talks politics in those situations.

MANN: Is he an anti-Semite?

MARTIN: No, I don't think he is. I think there he was being -- I have heard it tape. I think he was being led quite consciously by the president and H.R. Haldeman (ph). He said some things he should not have said. He has apologized for it profusely and it does not square with the rest of his life. It was regrettable. He shouldn't have done it. But I don't think that he is an anti-Semite at all.

MANN: You talked about bringing evangelicals into the mainstream of American culture and really into the fore when it comes to the really growing religious movements around the world. What impact has he had on the larger culture? Does he remain a figure really for the people who are in the stadium and are watching him on television? Do you think he's had any influence beyond that?

MARTIN: Well, I think some. Consider the fact that when there have been events in recent years such as the Oklahoma City bombing and the prayer service at the National Cathedral after 9/11, it was natural and I think many people expected that it would be a good thing to hear Billy Graham offer a comforting word, a healing word, and reassuring word, and that's what happened. And I think it was important for people.

It's difficult to see who else would be called on in that kind of circumstance that people would expect and say now it's going to be all right.

MANN: Well, in fact people have called him the preacher-in-chief. With his retirement, is there another preacher-in-chief in the waiting?

MARTIN: Personally I think not. That doesn't mean there aren't people of great ability, of great sincerity, integrity and all of that. But it's all a matter of the fact that the evangelical movement in particular has grown so large, so diverse, that there is no one person that can call people together, that can be seen as the leader in the way that Billy Graham has been for half-a-century. And I think that probably is the case for the mainline churches as well.

So I think that he will not be replaced. And it's important to remember that Billy Graham is not an office in the Christian church that has to be filled.

MANN: Fair enough. William Martin, author of "A Prophet With Honor," thanks so much for talking with us.

MARTIN: A pleasure, thank you.

MANN: We take a break now. When we come back, what the pastor actually preaches.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANN (voice-over): Back in the mid-1980s, George W. Bush was a struggling businessman with a drinking problem. Billy Graham spent a weekend talking to him about his life.

GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: Years ago, I guess it wasn't all that long ago, that we had a long talk in Maine and began a faith journey for me that reconfirmed my faith.

MANN: Bush gave up alcohol and in his words committed his life to Jesus Christ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Welcome back.

Billy Graham expresses his message in simple terms and once reflected he's been saying essentially the same things ever since he started. But what does he say? What does he stand for?

Joining us now to talk about that is Kenneth Woodward, contributing editor for "Newsweek" magazine, where he's been religious editor for 38 years now. He's also at work on a book about U.S. religion and culture.

Thanks so much for being with us.

What does Billy Graham actually preach to the people who go hear him?

KENNETH WOODWARD, "NEWSWEEK": Well, as everyone has been saying, it's a very simple gospel. We're sinners and we should get right with God. He invites people to come forward in the alter call -- with no alter -- and to make a decision for Christ.

What you don't see, of course, is their efforts to then steer that person to a nearby church, one that they think preaches the gospel properly. And that's what he's been doing pretty much all his life.

MANN: Is the oratory soaring? Is the experience very special? Or has he just been at it for a long time and doing it an old fashioned way?

WOODWARD: I think he's exceptionally gifted, but, look, most of the people that come there, at least for the last 40 years -- well, I think all the way along -- are already in churches. These are not terrible sinners coming in and listening to Billy and saying, "Oh, my God, I think I'll become a Christian." I don't think it works that way. It's a recommitment process that takes place.

I have listened to him preach at the Southern Baptist Convention. Now, you would think that they would not need to make a decision for Christ. And it is fairly routine.

It is very much a ritual. It's a comforting ritual because it repeats and repeats and repeats what Protestant Christianity has experienced since the tent revivals of the late 19th and early 20th century.

MANN: Well, do elements of the traditional Christian message drop by the wayside? I mean, does he talk a lot about sin? Does he talk a lot about sacrifice? Does he talk about --

WOODWARD: Well, I think he's changed. I mean, in the old days you would have gotten an organ and one man singing and now you've got all kind of the displays on the wall and videos running and all the rest.

Look, he's changed with the times, and I think he's softened. He's talked more about leading a fuller life, senses of feeling incomplete. You would always get there and he would have a press conference and he'd say, "I sense there's a hunger out there."

Well, you would think we had all been starving for 50 or 60 years because he always sensed a hunger out there.

He was quite a fiery fundamentalist in the beginning. And he modulated that, I suppose, somewhere between the Eisenhower presidency and the Nixon presidency.

MANN: I want to ask you about that, because there are a lot of evangelicals out there who believe very clear things. They believe that if you don't worship God the way they do, you don't know to heaven. If you're a homosexual or a lesbian, you don't go to heaven, that the Bible is very literally true and that evolution, for example, never happened. Does he preach those kinds of things?

WOODWARD: Billy is a man who likes to be liked. He tends to try to be inclusive.

In the old days, he really did not welcome Catholics to come there unless they wanted to be Protestants. The late Pope John Paul II, by the time of the 1970s, when Billy preached in Poland, the pope, who was cardinal then, welcomed him to Krakow.

No, I think there was a big change in Billy's life. Two things really happened. One, he got burned by being too close to presidents and liking to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom and liking to be around power. I think he thought that this way somehow could cast America in a 19th century of a Christian America.

Where he changed, maybe Mr. Martin, his biographer, will differ, but I think it's when he -- towards the end of Communism, when he was allowed to go to Eastern Europe, and there he saw Christians who had none of the advantages of the Christians in this country. And yet I think he finally discovered that they were in some ways deeper and more committed Christians. And then I think he got a little different perspective and learned to differentiate between the United States and Christian America.

MANN: Some people say that people of all religions, but especially Christians and Jews, are really adopting a kind of lowest common denominator approach to their faith. They don't really like to distinguish themselves from others who are more or less in their camp. They want religion to be relaxed and easy and fulfilling, not demanding, and they don't want religion to make them feel bad. And they point to people like Billy Graham as really evidence of that kind of thinking.

WOODWARD: Well, I think insofar as he avoided any complex theology and, therefore, differences, say, between Calvinists and Episcopalians and Catholics and Baptists and so forth -- after all, you want to get everybody in the tent that you can. I think to that extent, he abetted the rise of a kind of generic and unnuanced Christianity.

On the other hand, he wasn't the only cause. I would say from the '60s on, a lot of the denominations -- well, first of all, there was an ecumenical movement. They wanted to get over their differences if they were unimportant differences. But along the way I think they got rid of some really interesting differences that made America more diverse religiously than it is today.

MANN: Kenneth Woodward, at "Newsweek" magazine, thank you so much for this.

WOODWARD: You bet. Thank you.

MANN: Just one quick word before we go, from Billy Graham's son, Franklin, who may conceivably someday be his successor. Franklin attributes his father's success to the strength of his faith, but also to his simple honesty.

He says evangelists before his father were known by leaving unpaid bills behind. "Daddy," he says, "gave a really good name back to evangelism."

That's INSIGHT for today. I'm Jonathan Mann. The news continues.

END

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