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Bomb Blast Rocks Central Bangkok Near Erawan Shrine, Casualties Reported. Aired 10-11 ET
Aired August 17, 2015 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[10:00:17]
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Yes, thanks so much for that, Maggie. You're watching CNN. This is the INTERNATIONAL DESK. And we will continue to
cover this breaking news story out of Thailand.
As we recap some of the main points that Maggie was just mentioning there, casualty are reported in the wake of this powerful bombing in
central Bangkok. We do not know how many.
And Thai police tell CNN there's another bomb that needs to be defused. This is all unfolding now in an area popular with tourists near
the Erawan Shrine and a major shopping mall. So far authorities are not confirming reports that several people were killed and many wounded.
For more let's go to senior photojournalist, one of my colleagues, Mark Phillips.
Tell us what you see, Mark. Hi, there.
MARK PHILLIPS, CNN SR. PHOTOJOURNALIST: At the moment, Robyn, we've been pushed quite a way back from where the initial blast happened. We're
only about 100-150 meters back. There's a worry there could be a secondary device and the police have pushed us back. So they're looking for it at
the moment.
Everything's still a bit tense here as the police look around. The bomb went off initially around about 7 o'clock, unconfirmed reports saying
there's been five fatalities and seven hurt. When I got up to as close as 20-30 meters away, I could see the body of one person, and that was already
covered up. And many motorbikes littered the intersection in the middle of -- outside the shrine here.
You've also got to remember this shrine is right in the center of Bangkok. It's one of the busiest commercial districts of Bangkok. And the
bomb going off about 7 o'clock, that's when everybody would have been going home. So it was timed probably for the maximum amount of casualties it
could get.
CURNOW: The timing of real concern, civilians clearly an issue and a focus and a target here, the shrine also symbolic, Mark.
Tell us also -- we know Reuters has been reporting that this was a bomb delivered on the back of a motorcycle. Do we know that? Can we
confirm that?
PHILLIPS: At the moment, no. We can't confirm that. It's hard to say how the bomb was delivered. All we know is it's gone off close to the
shrine. We don't know if it's gone off inside the shrine or outside on the road at the moment. But there has been many casualties. Also the other
thing about this place is it's surrounded by Western hotels. And this is the end of the school holiday. So there has been a lot of Western tourists
down here.
CURNOW: Mark, also just explain to us -- I don't know if you can hear me there -- just explain to us why this shrine is significant.
Do you think it was the target? Or, as you were saying, the fact that this is a commercial district, there are major hotels and that many
tourists would have been around? What do you think was the target in that area?
PHILLIPS: I think it's probably -- it's a combination of everything. This is a busy area. It is a commercial area; there are plenty of hotels
around here. The shrine is where a lot of Western tourists go to to have a look. They walk out of the shopping center that the shrine is right there.
There's always dancers at the shrine. People go there to pay their respects and embrace the culture a little bit.
Also this intersection over the years has been a gathering spot for political situation that's happened over the years in Thailand as well.
This is the section that always gets closed down, whether it's by the Yellow Shirts or the Red Shirts.
And so it's a main demonstration point as well. So it has a lot of history here. But there's just a lot of traffic come through here. It is
kind of the main hub of Bangkok. So if somebody was going to get the maximum amount of casualties, this is probably the best place to be.
CURNOW: OK. Stay with us. Stand by, Mark Phillips. I'm going to come back to you in just a moment. You're giving us on the ground
analysis, telling us what you've seen.
He's in Thailand. But I also want to get a sense of what Mark was referring to, the political situation.
Let's go to Sajjan Gohel. He's the international security director for the Asia Pacific Foundation. He joins us by phone from London.
[10:05:00]
CURNOW: I know you were on talking to Maggie Lake just a little bit earlier. But I think it's so important to ask these questions.
Who do you think is responsible for this? It's not as clear-cut. It could be linked to internal Thai politics or perhaps to wider concerns
around terrorism that affects people globally.
SAJJAN GOHEL, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, Robyn, it's -- all options are possible. I would say,
though, that it's less likely to be politically motivated, based on the type of attack that we witnessed. This place, in a central artery area of
Bangkok, security was minimal, virtually nonexistent with a large concentration of people, especially in the evening and the location of the
target, where the Erawan Temple was, it's a symbolic target.
Now if you combine all of these things together, I would say it strongly suggests that the motivation was ideological, potentially
connected to a terrorist group that is either domestic, such as the Muslim separatist groups fighting in Southern Thailand or maybe a transnational
group with a much more international focus.
But nevertheless, the intention was to maim and kill a large concentration of people, kill Thais and Western tourists alike.
CURNOW: And what about these reports? I know CNN was still reporting and still is reporting that there are real concerns that there would be
secondary explosion, police very concerned that this one blast was not potentially the only one.
Is this a modus operandi that we've seen before?
GOHEL: I'm afraid so. This would also suggest that the second potential bomb was targeted to hit those individuals that would come, the
first responders, potentially those moving in another direction. We have seen this tactic used a lot in terrorism around the world, especially in
places like Iraq, where the second follow-up attack is designed to hit the ambulance services, the police, the first responders that turn up.
Now fortunately it doesn't seem to have gone off and been detonated. But nevertheless, it illustrates the intention and the desire to kill and
further maim more people.
CURNOW: Indeed. I mean, what we're hearing, our wires are saying that this area has been sealed off. We know from our reporter on the
ground, Mark Phillips, as well as another -- a number of other journalists, that the perimeter has been pushed back, that they can't see the site now
whereas an hour or so ago, there was a lot more people in the direct vicinity of this blast. We know that the area remains active and police
have said that this secondary bomb or some sort of explosive needs to be defused. We're unclear if that has happened or not.
Either way, you point there to certain terror tactics that are familiar around the world. Thailand in particular -- give us a sense of
how vulnerable Bangkok is, Thailand is, to terror.
GOHEL: Well, Thailand has often been a very key ally in cooperating with its neighbors, in dismantling the infrastructure of the Jemaah
Islamiyah terrorist group. That is the group that was behind the 2002 Bali bombing that killed over 200 people, including eight Australians. Bangkok
itself was where Hambali, the mastermind of that attack, was arrested over a decade ago. And Thailand has been cooperating with the United States in
terms of sharing information on local terrorist groups and also the transnational outfits.
There is a concern with the fact that some Thais from Southern Thailand have traveled to Iraq and Syria to join groups like ISIS. The
worry has been for a while that could there be potential blowback. But at the same time, you can't dismiss the fact that what's been percolating in
the south of the country, where there's been a spike in violence with an increase in attacks by these separatist groups against the military, the
worry would be is has this now spilled into the major city, the urban centers like Bangkok itself.
And of course the worry would also be that could there be follow-up for us, an attack. The temples are very popular in Thailand for tourists
but also many Thais are very religious. They attend them regularly. So and also whether the mass concentration of people.
So the authorities need to now crack down on this very quickly to prevent a potential follow-up attack.
CURNOW: We've seen from the photographs, from the images coming from the scene -- I don't know whether you've had time to study them -- a number
of burnt-out shells of motorbikes; Reuters is reporting, saying that this bomb was delivered essentially on a motorbike. We can't confirm that at
the moment.
Your assessment of the size of this bomb? I mean, it could have been bigger in a sense. If you look at it, the destruction was potentially
minimal compared to other major bombings we've seen -- you mentioned Bali bombing for example.
[10:10:00]
CURNOW: What's your assessment of the size and the capability, the capacity of this bomb?
GOHEL: Well, the bomb itself was definitely significant enough, the fact that the death toll is over at least a dozen and could potentially
rise. It's not just the death toll. It's those that have been injured and maimed as well, which goes into the dozens at the moment.
If we look at the tactic that's been used in Southeast Asia in the past, such as in Bali, the strategy has been to use vehicle-borne improved
explosive devices, and that is explosives attached to vehicles. So often it's been to rig vans, small cars, but motorcycles have often been used
frequently, too, because of the fact that they are easier to obtain, less likely to arouse suspicion and also for the individuals and the culprits to
move around much quicker.
So that is something the authorities do need to now look at as that if this motorcycle that was used potentially, has it been stolen, where was it
purchased, who by, these types of things need to be investigated very quickly in case there is the potential of other cells that are operating,
wanting to carry out attacks, or this particular cell itself, more questions need to be asked as to how these individuals were planning this
attack and has there been an intelligence failing?
Because something like this, even though the attack and the explosive may not have been as big as it potentially could have been, nevertheless
it's significant enough and it's left deep scars in Bangkok.
CURNOW: OK. Sajjan Gohel, thank you so much for your expertise. I'm going to come back to you for more.
But I do want to just give our viewers some background of the location of this bombing, the shrine, which is the scene of Monday's blast.
The Erawan Shrine is a hugely popular tourist attraction, said to be one of the most revered spots in Thailand. Now it was built in 1956 as a
shrine to the Hindu god Brahma. It is also visited by thousands of Buddhists every day.
The shrine was the site of a strange attack in 2006, when a mentally disturbed man damaged the shrine's gold-faced statue with a hammer. He was
then beaten to death by onlookers and the statue was replaced, though, within months.
A reminder, what we know so far: casualties are reported in the wake of this powerful bombing in Central Bangkok. Thai police tell CNN there is
another bomb that needs to be defused. Freelance journalist Adam Ramsey joins us now by phone from Bangkok.
Hi, there, Adam. What more can you tell us?
Adam, can you hear me? It's Robyn Curnow here at CNN Center. Can you hear me and tell us what more do you know? You're on the scene there in
Bangkok.
It appears we have lost Adam. And of course we will go back to him. He was speaking to some of my colleagues a little bit earlier.
But just to recap where we are, what we know, a bomb has exploded in the commercial district of Bangkok, a main hub, central artery of Thailand.
We know that a number of charred-out motorcycles -- there you can see them -- were also damaged in that blast. We know a number of people have been
hurt also, a number of casualties. It's unclear just how many. We are continuing to follow this story.
A short time ago, my colleague, Maggie Lake, spoke with Steve Herman. He's the Southeast Asia bureau chief and a senior correspondent in Asia for
Voice of America.
This is what he described the scene.
And it appears we have problems with his sound as well, hoping my colleagues in the control room can find Steve. But it doesn't sound like
he is there. But you can see there at least the chaos that happened, that was there after that bomb blast, still a number of people milling around in
those early hours. That was about an hour and a half after the bomb blast.
And there we go. There it is. That security footage of the blast in Bangkok, that's what we're seeing.
I'm going to go now to Mark Phillips. He's our photojournalist in Bangkok.
We've just seen the CCTV footage of this bomb going off.
What else do you know?
PHILLIPS: Oh, at the moment, Robyn, the situation's seem to have slowed down a bit. Police seem to be having it under control. We've been
still pushed back. But there doesn't seem to be the urgency as there was there before.
Saying that I cannot see all the way up to where the bomb went off. There are shrines actually attached to the Grand Hyatt hotel, where a lot
of Western tourists stay.
[10:15:00]
PHILLIPS: But at the moment, as I said, the police, they seem to have gotten the area under control and things -- I wouldn't say settled down,
but they are -- the police are into a rhythm of starting to clear things up.
CURNOW: Give us an understanding of that. I mean, obviously security, far tighter; just describe -- paint a picture of the scene for us
now.
PHILLIPS: At the moment, they have -- it's still a lot of ambulances here, still a lot of police, seeing much of the army (ph) coming up, all in
their gear with helmets and jackets. The fire department is still around here. Ambulances are waiting with doors open, just in case something does
happen and they have to rush people out.
Saying that everything's in a bit of a standoff at the moment. The -- everybody's got waiting to see what the bomb squad's going to do and
whether they're going to find this other bomb, if it does exist at all.
CURNOW: OK. I think that's the question. There was a warning put out that there was a secondary device. It's unclear whether or not, like
you say, it was there or if it's been defused. We're hearing Reuters quoting the government defense minister, saying the blast killed at least
12 people.
What's your sense on the ground there in terms of casualties --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: At the moment, when I -- when we first got up to where we could see actually the blast site, I could see one body that was already
covered up under the sheet. And then around that I could see the -- about six or seven, half a dozen motorcycles that were thrown to the ground
because of the blast.
Other than that, by the time I arrived down here, I think most of the casualties had been moved out and moved away. But there was one body there
at the time when I was here.
CURNOW: Mark, we're also understanding -- I mean, the numbers coming in to us, we cannot verify them. There is an indication by some local
media outlets that there are more than 12 casualties, that's coming from a government source.
Do we know if these were Thais or whether foreigners were also caught up in this?
PHILLIPS: We don't know. We can't be firm at the moment. You would assume they were probably foreigners caught up there as well because this
area is very popular with foreigners, this tourist site. But we can't confirm that.
At the moment, we've only heard five unconfirmed killed. But we're trying to check our sources and see what the latest is.
CURNOW: Indeed. Our INTERNATIONAL DESK is doing that as we speak as well. We understand from the army, who has come out and said that they
have security forces have been deployed and that they have as much as we have on the ground.
I mean, is there -- are there a lot of security forces on the ground? The pictures we're seeing now, which are recorded show a lot of people
milling around, observing.
PHILLIPS: Well, there are a lot of people milling around, that's for sure. You have a lot of emergency people down here. I have seen the army
walk by me, all geared up in their Kevlar and helmets. And down the road from where the bomb went off is the main Bangkok police torch, the main SB
headquarters. It's virtually -- it is walking distance up here.
Across the road from the shrine is actual hospital, which is right next door to the shrine. So there is a lot of people here, a lot of
security here and a lot of British newspeople here because they are all stationed around here as well.
So it's not a far distance for them to get down to this shrine and to do their work.
CURNOW: Mark Phillips, stay with us. We're going to come back to you.
In the meantime, I want to bring in Reuters Thailand bureau chief and correspondent, Amy Sawitta Lafevre.
Tell us, you were at the scene a little bit earlier.
What do you know transpired, particularly Reuters is reporting that this was a motorcycle bomb.
AMY SAWITTA LAFEVRE, REUTERS THAILAND BUREAU CHIEF AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, we spoke to the national police chief, who told us that this
was an improved device -- those were his words in Thai -- leading us to believe that it wasn't sort of a homemade device. Deputy National Police
Chief Aek Angsananond said that this was a motorcycle bomb. But there are some 16 pieces of information out there now from both the national police
chief and the deputy police chief. What has been confirmed, however, is that it was a bomb.
CURNOW: Devastating number of casualties. We understand from -- also I'm look at a Reuters wire here, quoting local media, that a number of
foreigners have been involved, caught up in this.
Do we have any more information on that?
LAFEVRE: Yes. Well, local media are reporting that at least 10 foreigners could have died in this attack.
[10:20:00]
LAFEVRE: The shrine, this Hindu shrine, Erawan Shrine (INAUDIBLE) is extremely popular with tourists. And particularly around the time of the
incident, people go there to pay their respects to the shrine. So it's a very busy, bustling part of the Bangkok commercial hub.
Local media are also reporting and we've just reported this as well, I saw 27 people dead. But the numbers are, again, such (INAUDIBLE) between
12 and 27 right now, with police confirming at least 12 dead.
CURNOW: And I also see from the latest Reuters wire that most of the injured were tourists from China and Taiwan.
LAFEVRE: Yes, that's correct and that would also be in keeping with the types of tourists that go to this shrine. As I said, very popular with
tourists, very popular with Chinese tourists, who are the number one visitor to Thailand and that would be in keeping with the tourists that go
to the shrine to pay their respects.
CURNOW: Any sense, any understanding of what the target might have been? It seems like this area, this intersection had a number of possible
targets, whether it was the shrine or the big international tourist hotels or even the police quarters and Police Hospital, which are nearby, seems to
be a very strategic location.
LAFEVRE: Yes, it does seem to be strategic. But, again, we have no official word from police as to what the exact target was. They have said,
however, that this incident, this attack was intended to hit right at the heart of Thailand tourism industry and to hit Thailand economy.
And this was -- this seems to have been a very strategic place to plant a bomb.
CURNOW: Have there been any comments from any groups claiming responsibility?
LAFEVRE: So far, no groups have claimed responsibility for this attack and nor has the government come out to blame any group. They've
only said as I mentioned that this incident was to instigate unrest and disturb the peace.
CURNOW: So what's your assessment? Do you -- you report from Thailand; you're aware of the domestic complications, difficulties that the
country has gone through.
Do you believe that this is linked to militants in the south?
Or do you feel like this could be linked to a broader terror conspiracy?
LAFEVRE: Well, I really don't want to comment on that at the moment, particularly with no official line on who might be behind this. There is
unrest in the south. There is a separatist group (INAUDIBLE) and a war going on in Southern Thailand.
But from the (INAUDIBLE) we've seen in the past couple of years, this type of attack right in the heart of Bangkok is not in keeping with the
types of attacks we've seen from separatist rebels in Southern Thailand in the deep south (INAUDIBLE) Malaysia.
So I guess the initial assessment would be (INAUDIBLE) doesn't seem to be that kind of -- that these groups would be behind it. As you said, we
have had on-and-off political violence for a decade now. But the (INAUDIBLE) against the military government in Thailand has been very
peaceful, largely held by student activists and, as I said, small gatherings, very peaceful and this does not seem to be the kind of anti-
government attack that we would expect.
CURNOW: Indeed. So then that begs the question, is this linked to a broader global conspiracy? How vulnerable is Thailand to perhaps influence
from ISIS-type ideology?
LAFEVRE: Again, you know, there is really no link to extremist religious groups and it would be very exceptional, let's say, to Thailand
to be some sort of religious attacks in its capital.
CURNOW: We've been hearing from police that the blast remained an active area, that there was a secondary device that needed to be defused.
Do you know anything more about that?
LAFEVRE: Yes, I spoke to police on -- at the scene, a few police officers and also emergency health workers, who told me very early on that
they were scouring the scene for potentially (INAUDIBLE) other devices. So far no confirmation that we've heard of, of those unexploded devices.
But they have pushed bystanders well back, well away from the scene. As I said, very busy tourist areas. So many tourists mulling around and
(INAUDIBLE) on their way back home from work.
[10:25:00]
LAFEVRE: And they've now cordoned off the scene about 100 meters right around the area of the incident.
CURNOW: Amy Sawitta Lafevre, thank you very much from Reuters, giving us a lot of information there, appreciate it.
Now let's get some more insight from Thomas Fuller. He's the Southeast Asia correspondent for "The New York Times." He's at the scene.
Hi, there, sir.
What can you see?
THOMAS FULLER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Hi, so there are rescue workers, all over this intersection, a major intersection, center of Bangkok, a
tourist spot, middle of the shopping district. There are police sniffer dogs (INAUDIBLE) around the scene. Police said earlier that they had found
unexploded bombs and had everyone move back.
And the explosion occurred around an hour and a half ago. And there are body parts scattered (INAUDIBLE).
CURNOW: Have you seen that?
You can see that?
Can you hear me, Thomas?
If you can just explain to me what -- I mean, what that scene is like, have authorities, have the rescue personnel not managed to pick up some of
these body parts, to remove some of the wounded? We've seen some being taken away on stretchers.
What is the scene like?
FULLER: Well, the area's been cordoned off. And as I say, there are probably several hundred security personnel here. There are both troops
and police. And I think the focus of their efforts now is to find any further explosive devices. But, no, not all of the -- not all of the
remains have been -- have been picked up yet.
There's -- there are still -- there are still teams that appear to be searching for more explosive devices.
CURNOW: OK. So that's still dangerous; it's still an active scene.
What kind of reaction has there been in Thailand to this?
FULLER: I think it's too early to say what reaction there's been beyond shock. I think people obviously want to know why but at this point,
the police that I've spoken to said that it's too early to ascribe a motive to it.
But it occurred at rush hour, at this very popular tourist spot inside what is the Erawan Shrine in the major intersection in Bangkok.
CURNOW: A major intersection in Bangkok, clearly a devastating scene that's been playing out there, many lives taken, many people injured.
Reuters is reporting that some tourists from China and Taiwan might also be among the injured.
Just tell us about this shrine.
What else do you know about it?
FULLER: The shrine is a place where both Thais and visitors from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore come to ask for wishes to be granted. They
pray at the shrine with incense. They hire dancers who were based in the shrine. It's students and it's women who are having trouble having
children. It's people who want to get a certain job.
It's a shrine that's come to have a reputation of a place where your - - where you can seek good fortune. So it's a very popular spot in Bangkok with -- among Thais and foreigners alike.
CURNOW: And now, this place where people go to ask for luck and good fortune, the scene of this horror, this terror. We're being told that it
was an improved device; Reuters reporting that. It's unclear just that the method, the mode of this bomb, how it was transported, who perhaps put it
there, whether it involved a suicide bombing. It's all very unclear. We do not have those details.
But just give us also some sort of understanding of what this means for Thailand and why you think this particular area, why Bangkok was
targeted.
FULLER: Well, as I say, it's too early to know what the motive was.
[10:30:00]
FULLER: But it's certainly a very delicate time for Thailand. Thailand's been under military rule for more than a year now. The coup in
May 2014 and there's opposition to that coup. But until now, it's been quite understated opposition.
Thailand's economy is not doing that well. And it's a time of transition for the country. There are supposed to be elections coming
within a year or maybe two and so it's a tenuous time.
Whether that's connected at all to this blast, we don't know.
CURNOW: We just don't know. Thomas Fuller from "The New York Times," really appreciate your joining us here at CNN.
So I just want to recap what we know about this breaking news from Thailand. This is what we know. A powerful bomb rocked Central Bangkok
just a short time ago and police tell CNN a second bomb still needs to be defused, this all in the heart of a popular tourist area near the Erawan
Hindu Shrine.
Witnesses and local media reporting several people have been killed or wounded. We do not have exact numbers yet.
Freelance journalist Adam Ramsey joins us now by phone from Bangkok.
Adam, hi, there. There are a number of different and conflicting reports about casualties.
Do you have any clarification on how many people might have died?
ADAM RAMSEY, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: No, I haven't, but I tried to speaking to some of the medical professionals that are on the boundaries of
the cordon here and they weren't willing to give a number.
But I would say probably the most reliable figure that we have is 12 dead so far. But, again, my caution on that because it's changing all the
time. And depending on who you speak to, you're getting figures anywhere from five to 15. So but so far, it seems like 12 is probably the most
trustworthy figure.
CURNOW: And we've also seen a number of images -- there it is again - - this very powerful image of security emergency personnel rushing somebody who's injured away on a gurney.
So we have any understanding of how many people have been injured?
RAMSEY: No, even that -- we're looking at something in the realm of dozens. I have a couple colleagues that are currently having two of the
major hospitals, where told the injured have been sent. But when I tried, again, to speak to medical personnel here to try and get numbers, they were
pretty much prevaricating or they didn't -- you know, they don't want to put their neck out on a figure because they weren't sure themselves.
It's all a bit chaotic still.
CURNOW: Chaotic, no doubt; it's the aftermath, the very soon after the aftermath of this explosion. You were there a little bit earlier.
How has the scene changed?
RAMSEY: There's a lot more personnel. When I first came, there was already a cordon set up. But you could still basically come within about
30-50 meters of the blast site. I could see very clearly three extremely charred motorcycles on their side, another two sitting further away that
had been blown away. And now there's a lot more personnel actually at the blast site.
Firemen, we have the sort of first responders of the medical units. We have army members and of course the police as well.
CURNOW: No doubt, though, still a dangerous place to be for those responders as well as even for people like you and those who are nearby.
We understand that authorities were concerned about a secondary device or secondary devices -- unclear if it is plural -- and that those were still
being defused.
Do we know what the status is on that?
RAMSEY: I'm really sorry, again --
CURNOW: It's OK --
(LAUGHTER)
CURNOW: -- thank you for joining us. I know I'm asking you tough questions.
RAMSEY: No, I mean, it really is a case of whoever you speak to will give you another figure. I've had people saying several other devices have
been found; I've been told that there were three. I've been told that there's just the two. But basically there's definitely -- or -- nobody has
said that there's just the one. And that's what a lot of people are worried about. That's why, when we first arrived, they were still treating
it as that sort of zone, where I was trying to get a little bit closer and (INAUDIBLE) said we're still treating it as if there is still a bomb.
You know, I sort of lack sound a bit, but they did push the cordon back so they're still taking a lot of security precautions, as of course
they would.
CURNOW: Sorry to having to ask you all these specifics and we don't have the answers, but we really appreciate you because you are on the
scene; you can describe for us what you saw earlier, what you see now.
Can you tell us what people are saying, those around you, Thais?
[10:35:00]
CURNOW: What's the feeling? What's the sense of emotion there at the moment?
RAMSEY: Well, actually, most of the people that I've spoken to are personnel that are directly involved with the blast (INAUDIBLE), the
medical professionals, the police, the army. But the few people that I have spoken to, they have no idea, really, what has happened. Some of them
are aware that it was a bomb. Others, they genuinely don't know what the - - what's happening. They're keeping their distance pretty safely.
But there's still a very surreal sort of business-as-usual atmosphere -- not even 20 meters from the cordon, there's a McDonald's. And I can see
it's still got quite a few people in it, just chucking down. But it's odd in that way.
But closer to the blast site itself, I can see it's still a lot of personnel getting about, trying to clear the area.
CURNOW: Thank you so much, appreciate your giving us your perspective, Adam Ramsey there on the scene.
Also on the scene, our Mark Phillips.
You might be quite close to each other. Mark, you've been there for some time now. I know you're hearing Adam talk there.
Is there also this surreal business-as-usual feeling going on pretty close to this bomb lot?
PHILLIPS: To a certain degree, yes. I mean, the trains are running again. The train tracks went over the intersection here and that's picked
up again. So the trains are running.
What I can see now -- (INAUDIBLE) -- the second bomb, although it's (INAUDIBLE) second bomb anticipated. The police were in there; they've let
people move up again. I can see two charred remains of two motorbikes there and several around there, just knocked over.
And then I can see into the shrine, where there are a lot of police in there with a lot of lights and they look like they're investigating.
They're digging around, looking for debris in there as well.
The gate to the shrine is definitely buckled and bent from the explosion. So whether the explosion took place outside on the road or
inside the shrine, I'm not too sure. But there are still a lot of police there and they're going about doing their work.
CURNOW: We heard "The New York Times" reporter, Thomas Fuller, talk about how Thailand was going through a transition, that this has been a
difficult time.
Does this kind of incident -- what do you think? What is your assessment of the political implications of something like this?
PHILLIPS: Oh, Thailand always in political, the last 10 years, it's been going backwards and forwards. (INAUDIBLE) this is a country that had
well over a dozen coups in the last 100 years. There's only been one government that actually had been voted in. And usually the governments,
they don't even last the full term (INAUDIBLE).
So at the moment, it is a military government.
It's hard to say whether this is linked to politics or whether it's linked to the insurgency in the south or something else. It's just really
hard to pinpoint there. It's Thailand. You just don't know where it's going to really be coming from and who's going to take responsibility for
it.
CURNOW: Has there been any reaction? I know it's still very soon afterwards, the Thais revere their royal family. There is a military
government at the moment.
Has there been any official response from those sort of high quarters?
PHILLIPS: Not what I've seen. I haven't had a chance to check out those sources at the moment. But going back to where the Thais get on with
life as usual, to a certain degree, I mean, this is a major blast right in the middle of town, right in a very popular shrine. People are going to be
very upset about this. But saying that tomorrow, Thais will go back to work and things will go back to normal again. It's a big like rocks in a
stream. Thais kind of like move around and get on with life. And it has gone through all these kinds of situations over the last 10 years. So
they're kind of used to it, not that they're blase about it. But they just know this is the reality of living in Bangkok sometimes.
CURNOW: Stoic, resilient, thank you so much, Mark Phillips there, our photojournalist on the scene.
Well, we'll continue throughout this hour with the breaking news from Thailand.
This is my colleague, Maggie Lake. I want you to listen to an interview she had with Steve Herman. Now he's the Southeast Asia bureau
chief and senior correspondent for the Voice of America. This is what he said to Maggie just a little while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE HERMAN, SOUTHEAST ASIA BUREAU CHIEF, VOICE OF AMERICA: We're standing at the intersection of Sukhumvit and Ratchadamri in Central
Bangkok, where there was an explosion that was heard throughout Central Bangkok.
Earlier, when we arrived on the scene and went up right to the gate of this Erawan Shrine, a very popular landmark for tourists in Bangkok, next
to the Grand Hyatt Erawan hotel, we saw six bodies under sheets. There is one body also right in front of the shrine that I'm looking at right now
and scattered throughout this intersection are body parts covered with white pieces of paper, essentially.
There is a bomb disposal unit on the scene.
[10:40:00]
HERMAN: They have pushed us back about 70 meters, are very concerned about the possibility of a second device going off. An unnamed official
did tell me shortly after we arrived when I asked him what had happened, he did confirm it was a bomb blast.
We have seen six bodies. We're told from other sources there may have been six more fatalities. We saw ambulances, transport, a number of
injured from the scene and normally this intersection would be extremely crowded with tourists. We're right across the street from two major
shopping malls where thousands and thousands of tourists from all around the world come every day.
In this area right now, there are no tourists around. There are hundreds of rescue personnel, army, police, firemen and reporters on the
scene.
LAKE: Steve, we are looking at, as you're telling us about this, we are looking at live pictures coming in from Reuters. We ask our viewers to
bear with us. Sometimes the picture looks to go black. It is, of course, nighttime there. But these are live pictures on the scene.
You mentioned that this is a very busy area. It is next to some very popular -- some very large hotels. Can you see, are they evacuating people
from those hotels?
Has that been done already?
HERMAN: Shortly after the sound of the explosion, those people who were inside the Hyatt next door were not allowed to leave. But when we --
coming up, about up the street, because, well, our office is only about 5-7 minutes away from here, I was in the bureau on the 18th floor and heard
this boom, I thought it was thunder. I really didn't think anything of it until I didn't hear anything else.
And then we started to see on Twitter that there had been some sort of explosion but people were calmly walking up and down the street at that
point. Now they have cleared out the intersection and are holding people back. But if another blast of the same size went off, there would be a
number of rescue personnel who would be seriously injured or worse.
LAKE: Putting their lives in danger, no doubt. And, Steve, just to clarify for our viewers, we are -- what we are looking at are not all live
pictures; it's actually tape from just a short time ago of scenes of the blast, of the activity around that, in the moments afterwards.
You said that there are rescue and personnel on the scene. What are you hearing in terms of or what -- if you can see and have a line of vision
-- about what is being done in order to defuse the bomb?
Do they know where it is? Are they trying to search? What do you think has led them to the conclusion that there is still an active bomb on
the site?
HERMAN: OK, I'm having a little difficulty hearing you because some of the police are shouting at us to move back farther now. But I --
(CROSSTALK)
HERMAN: -- here's a senior police officer. I'm trying to get someone to give us a little bit more information.
Can you tell us, sir, can you tell us, we're live on the air.
What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
HERMAN: OK.
But as an official told me earlier, there was a bomb blast. And there is concern about a second blast that could occur. And we did see on the
ground in the road a passerby -- I think -- where another boom, but I think that's thunder. I --
(LAUGHTER)
HERMAN: -- I hope it's thunder.
But we've spotted an electronic circuit board a few centimeters' length and width in the middle of the road, strewn among the body parts.
And they have collected that for evidence. And there's a bomb disposal unit on the scene now going through the area, trying to determine if there
may be another explosive device right now.
And as I said, they keep pushing us back farther and farther every few minutes. When we arrived on the scene, we were able to get right to the
gate of the shrine and look in there and determine that there were at least six bodies under white sheets inside the shrine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Well, that was Steve Herman there, the Southeast Asia bureau chief and senior correspondent in Asia for Voice of America.
You heard him say he saw at least six bodies. Reuters is now reporting at least 27 dead in that Bangkok blast. I'm just reading the
Reuters wire here. They also say that several foreigners were among those 27 people killed and that many of those injured might be Chinese and
Taiwanese tourists. We will, of course, try and confirm that ourselves. But that's what Reuters is reporting, 27 people killed, several foreigners
among them.
Well, CNN's Kristie Lu Stout joins me now live from Hong Kong with more information about the area where this explosion happened.
Hi, there, Kristie. What can you tell us?
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, very disturbing to see that death toll number from Reuters.
Robyn, here's some additional context --
[10:45:00]
STOUT: -- on the location of where this bomb blast took place in the city of Bangkok. The Erawan Shrine, we know that the Erawan Shrine is a
Hindu shrine. It's been in Bangkok for over 50 years. It's also been a popular destination for tourists from all over the world.
But what is significant about this shrine, as you look on the map here, is its location. It is located in the heart of Bangkok. It is in a
very busy corner of the city's commercial hub. In fact, it's located near the CentralWorld Shopping Mall. There is also a number of high-end hotels
in that area, around that intersection, including the Grand Hyatt.
Gaysorn Plaza, the giant Siam Paragon Mall are also nearby. And these are high-end shopping malls with a number of luxury stores, a lot of
tourists go there. In this area, there are also two Skytrain stations. The Skytrain is Bangkok's monorail transport system.
So if you think of it, the site of this bombing, it is a very busy area. So it's an area that's popular among tourists. It's popular among
business people, commuters, as well as general members of the Thai public. And we also have to look at the timing of when this bombing took place. It
took place at a very busy time.
Whenever we run that CCTV video of the bomb blast, just as it happens, you can see the timestamp on that video. It's just before 7:00 pm local
time. And that is rush hour in Bangkok. So in the aftermath of these blasts, there have unfortunately and surprisingly, because of the timing
and where it took place, there have been casualties, several people dead, scores more injured. And so this appears, Robyn, that this was an attack
that was timed and designed for maximum casualties, targeting both tourists and also the Thai people -- back to you.
CURNOW: Indeed, symbolic and strategic. We don't know anything else about the method of the bombing. There have been some reports that it was
an improved device; either way, as you say, designed to not just inflict maximum casualties but also maximum injuries on those who survived, often
have devastating wounds after bombings like this.
STOUT: That's right. This seems to be an attack targeting the economy of Thailand as well as the tourism sector of Thailand. Thailand is
deeply dependent on tourism revenue. It's one of the most iconic countries, one of the most popular tourist hot spots in the world. And
because of where this bomb blast took place, at the Erawan Shrine, where these high-end hotels are located, where these high-end shopping centers
are located, during the height of rush hour, where there are a number of business people, Thai people getting home from work, this was something
designed to strike fear in the people of Thailand and also strike fear in people considering to travel to Thailand -- back to you.
CURNOW: Thanks so much, Kristie Lu Stout there.
Well, we will continue throughout this hour and the coming hours with this breaking news from Thailand.
I just want to update you on what we know. Many casualties are reported in the wake of that powerful bombing -- you see it there --
Reuters is reporting 27 people dead. We cannot confirm that. And Thai police tell CNN there was another bomb that needed to be defused. It's
unclear if that has happened.
Also unfolding this hour, this was a very popular area with tourists, near, as Kristie said, the Erawan Shrine and a major shopping mall as well
as a number of hotels.
So far authorities are not confirming their reports or the numbers of people killed or wounded. We hear from people on the ground that it is
chaotic and that many of the personnel are still very much trying to get to grips with the very chaotic scene.
But to reiterate: 27 people, according to Reuters, have been killed, a number of them foreigners.
Well, for more analysis, let's go back to our Sajjan Gohel. He's the international security director for the Asia Pacific Foundation. He
rejoins us by phone from London.
And when we talk about terrorism, besides the utter devastation, the wounds, the deaths, there's always a message, isn't there, there's always a
symbolic reason certain places are chosen. And as Kristie Lu Stout was saying, this seems to have had very, very big meaning, not just for Thai
people but for their economy and also for tourists who visit there.
GOHEL: Very much so, Robyn. This has a very powerful ideological message, this attack. It is designed, on the one hand, to target
Thailand's economy, as Kristie Lu Stout mentioned, because Thailand very much depends on tourism.
And it doesn't just target the foreigners; it also targets local Thais, where this attack took place is in the vicinity of a very important
temple that many Buddhists go to. The Erawan Temple may be a Hindu one, but Buddhists pray at it as well. And let -- if we look at what took place
recently in Tunisia, in the attacks there, tourism, it has practically died in the country.
[10:55:00]
GOHEL: The worry would be that with this attack that took percent in Bangkok have a similar impact. Nevertheless, whatever the goal would be,
it has been designed to kill and maim ordinary Thai citizens and foreign tourists alike. And the worry would be that whether there are follow-up
attacks being planned as well.
CURNOW: Well, with that in mind, we're looking at our pictures, again from Reuters, from the scene; you can see a number of security personnel
loitering, it looks like. There's not a sense of urgency. These are live pictures we're getting from the scene right now.
I don't know if you can see them, Sajjan, but there was concern that there was perhaps other devices that need to be defused. We see the army.
We see a number of other personnel and they seem to be getting instructions. There isn't a sense that this is very much a security, an
active security zone. We -- absolute cameras are able to get this close.
How do you think -- what is the likelihood of there being a second bomb, you know, nearly two hours after the first explosion?
GOHEL: Well, there was concern about a potential second device that hadn't been detonated and that was a worry to the authorities. It is
possible now that that device is no longer practical to be used or it's been defused by the authorities. But it is interesting, you say, there was
a second device because that is normally another tactic of terrorism, which is to wait for a delay for there to be the first responders, the police,
the ambulance services to come and then for that device to detonate, to create more injuries, maim more people and inflict more atrocities.
So even if the device is no longer practical, we are seeing an intention and a desire by the culprits to kill and also to undermine
Thailand's society in terms of social, economic and potentially political as well.
And we have to keep in mind that as of now, with the information that is available, potential culprits, suspects in this are still at large,
which means the potential of another attack, another incident is still an option.
The authorities are going to have to take this very seriously, especially if we look at where this attack has taken place, targeting
shopping malls, a religious institution. Bangkok is full of these types of temples and also shopping malls. So it makes these soft targets potential
for other attacks in the near future.
CURNOW: Do you believe there's been an intelligence failure on behalf of the Thai authorities, the fact that they weren't able to stop this?
GOHEL: Well, that often depends on who the actual culprits are. If it is a local group from, say, Southern Thailand, where there has been a
spike in violence in the last few weeks, potentially there has been an intelligence failing because there has been this concern. Those attacks in
Southern Thailand by Muslim separatists could seep into the major cities like Bangkok.
The other angle would be whether this was a transnational plot by international actors, the Jemaah Islamiyah group that planned the 2002 Bali
bombing is no longer the outfit it used to be. Its leaders have been captured or killed. But we know that some Thais have actually traveled to
Iraq and Syria to link up with ISIS.
Is there a potential blowback? There's going to have to be international cooperation on this, especially with the U.S., that has
worked with Thailand in the past, to try and ascertain and decipher who is behind this attack, because what worries me is this is not a one-off. It
could be part of a synchronized series of plots as we saw in Tunisia with the attack at the Bardo Museum and then a couple of months later the major
attack at a tourism resort, which has devastated their economy.
Thailand doesn't want to be in a similar situation like that.
CURNOW: No. That was going to be my next question.
What do you think are the capabilities, the capacity of this cell?
Does it look like it is a small, local group?
Or do you think this takes a lot of organization, a lot of coordination?
GOHEL: Well, they have planned logistically this attack very well. They have gone from a place where there's a large concentration of people,
especially during the evening rush hour. They have targeted an area where it is frequented by both ordinary Thais and foreign tourists, the
Rajprasong (ph) intersection is where there are two major shopping centers, the CentralWorld Plaza and Gaysom Center is also where the Erawan Hindu
Shrine is and there are many hotels nearby as well.
The intention is very clear. It is not designed just to be for local impact. It is designed for international perspective as well.
CURNOW: So with that in mind, if the intention is international impact, how soon do you think, how likely is it that someone, some group
will claim responsibility?
GOHEL: Well, this is an important question that you raise. The Jemaah
[10:55:00]
GOHEL: -- Islamiyah terrorist group behind the Bali bombings and also the attack in Jakarta at the Marriott bombing, hotel, they never really
claimed responsibility for the attack. It required investigations by the authorities to ascertain who had done it.
Now if it is an international group, another one, like, say, ISIS, well, they will be all too happy to take credit for it. Probably
speculative to say ISIS as yet. But just illustrating the motivation for the group.
If it is a group from Southern Thailand, again, there is the potential that they may want to take credit. But that would result in a massive
clampdown in the region by the military authorities, who will be fighting quite a nasty insurgency that has been growing in the last few months.
So we have to wait and see. It all depends on the culprits themselves. Some of them will be motivated to take credit; others will
want to lie down, potentially in order to carry out another attack.
CURNOW: And that's the concern, the potential of another attack.
What happens next for Thailand?
How will the authorities deal with this now?
Can they stop another attack?
GOHEL: This is a country that very much depends on tourism, on foreign money coming in and for the reason they try and make the city of
Bangkok acceptable, friendly; it's known for being one of the most friendly cities in the world. It's one of the most cosmopolitan cities in Asia.
And if they try and bring it down with heavy security, in many ways that plays into the hands of the terrorists as well, because they want there to
be a clampdown on free mobility, on the fact that a security presence may intimidate tourists.
On the other hand, by not having an effective security apparatus, it could result in more plots being planned because the terrorists will feel
it's safer to do it.
Unfortunately, the second goal of all terrorism is disruption. It is to alter the way people live, they way they think and feel. And I'm afraid
that is what this attack is also achieved, in addition to the terrible atrocities that it's inflicted.
CURNOW: Indeed. Disruption -- has this become the new normal, seeing these sorts of attacks, not massive attacks like September the 11th --
that's still, of course, we're unclear who's responsible for this -- but there is in recent months, in recent years, a lot of examples of homegrown
terror, lone wolves, who have some sort of ideological link, but they're not coordinated.
Is this the new normal?
GOHEL: I'm afraid I think it is the new normal. I hate to use those words, but there is no better terminology to describe it, the new normal is
that it's no longer about the Al Qaeda plot, mass casualty coordinated from abroad being trained in Pakistan. Often they're spontaneous, sporadic.
The intention is still to target and maim and kill a lot of people, target areas where there's a large concentration of people. But these attacks are
harder to detect for the authorities. They're smaller in scale. There's less international focus.
We will have to wait and see what the potential aspects of this particular plot are. It could still have an international component. But
we are seeing, as you mentioned, the new normal, where attacks are more frequent, more spontaneous and also the visualization of terrorism is
another very important component, Robyn.
CCTV picked up the footage of this attack. Terrorists are all too aware of utilizing modern technology to further purport their attacks, so
that the terrorism is seen and the horrific images are unfortunately blazoned onto our minds.
CURNOW: Sajjan Gohel, as always, thank you for your analysis, your perspective. I really, really appreciate it.
I'm Robyn Curnow. And that does it for this hour in our continuing coverage of this bomb blast in Thailand, Reuters reporting that 27 people
have been killed, including several tourists. We have not confirmed that. But that is what Reuters is reporting.
We heard first-hand from the agency's chief correspondent for Thailand a little earlier those numbers. But CNN and Thai authorities still trying
to figure out just how many people have been killed, how many people have been injured. Those are live pictures of the scene. Don't go anywhere.
Becky Anderson joins us now from CNN Abu Dhabi with all the latest developments.
END
