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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Police Ignored Accusation about Syracuse Coach; Ex-Fiance Named as Suspect in Missing `People`s Court` Mom Case

Aired November 29, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, power and privilege center stage in the Syracuse University pedophile scandal. Did the former Syracuse police chief know ten years ago about the accusations that assistant basketball coach Bernie Fine sexually molested young boys? Was there a cover-up? Now the university`s under pressure to fire head coach Jim Boeheim. We`ll go live to the first home game since the scandal broke.

Plus, a missing mom`s family pleased with her ex-fiance, who`s just been named a prime suspect in the disappearance of Michelle Parker, the mother of his two children. Tonight, I`ll talk to Michelle`s sister. Is she surprised? This as the missing woman`s mom tells the ex-fiance, you brought this on yourself by refusing to take a polygraph. What`s he trying to hide? Where is Michelle Parker? \ And, you might say this is it for Dr. Conrad Murray.

JUDGE MICHAEL PASTOR, LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT: The court has determined that the appropriate term is the high term of four years imprisonment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. Michael Jackson`s doc gets four years in the slammer, but how much time will he really serve?

And I`ll talk exclusively with juror No. 5. You won`t believe what she has to say about what went on behind closed doors.

And we`re taking your calls. ISSUES starts now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But first, breaking news tonight. Shocking new developments in the Syracuse child sex abuse scandal.

We have just learned in 2002, then-Syracuse police chief, the top cop, was told that Bobby Davis accused Assistant Coach Bernie Fine of sexual assault, but since the statute of limitations had run out, no police investigation was started, and no official report was ever written up. This is almost a decade ago. The very stuff that we`re all talking about now the Syracuse police chief at the time knew about, and did nothing. It`s like the accusation never happened.

Just as shocking, Syracuse University did its own investigation in 2005, into the very same child sex allegation, and they reportedly never told the cops. Who investigates child sexual assault and simply forgets to tell cops what they have learned?

Pat Brown, criminal profiler, the situation has become clear here. The powers that be, the authorities, the ones who are supposed to keep us safe dropped the ball, a decade ago. And now it`s up to the news media to break these stories and bring these allegations before the world. And this is an upside-down world that we live in, when it seems that when cops hear these accusations, they do absolutely nothing.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think, Jane, one of the problems is, they have to have proof. And therein lies the "he said/he said" kind of thing. And I don`t know, because we haven`t seen yet what the proof was, so you can believe something may have occurred. You may think the kid`s telling you the truth, but the problem is, you have to have that proof before you go out...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. Let me say this. I`m going to respectfully disagree with you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: When somebody comes in and says, oh, you know, God forbid, I was right, or whatever, you don`t have to have proof to file a police report! I mean, they did not even file a police report. You do -- proof? There`s a trial that determines whether or not the accuser is telling the truth.

BROWN: Well, Jane, wait a minute. You know darn well that prosecutors will never take something to court if they don`t have enough evidence. They don`t want to go to court and make idiots of themselves and have nothing to prosecute. So there has to be some level of evidence to do that.

I mean, anybody can file a police report. That`s true. But it may not go any further than that if they do not have something conclusive. I mean, I wish it was different, but I don`t know that it -- you know, we can do anything about that, except maybe set up better social service systems and other things to support what`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Tom Kenniff, you are shaking your head.

TOM KENNIFF, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Jane, I have to disagree. In fact, it`s characteristic of sex cases, particularly sex cases involving children, that there are no witnesses.

You know, what the police do in this situation is, first of all, they vet the victim. Often the victim meets with psychologists, victim advocates, social workers. They may have them describe the intimate details: where it took place, how it took place, the physical description of the defendant. And the case is prosecuted based on that.

But what prosecutors will tell you is what child would lie about something like this? So, you know, extrinsic evidence, witnesses, it`s very rare in a case like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Galanos, you are there at Syracuse University. Tell us about the start of the first home game and the reaction to this news that the police chief -- not the current, but the then-police chief -- knew about this a decade ago and did nothing.

MIKE GALANOS, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Jane, I`m not sure you can hear me. I heard the beginning question...



GALANOS: Jane, let me -- let me say this. Again, can`t hear you. We`ll try and establish contact. Let me tell you what I`m seeing here on the campus of Syracuse.

They want answers. There`s shock and disbelief as to what`s going on. Sadness. Fans basically saying it`s like a kick in the gut, what`s going on.

I think they`re looking at a basketball game tonight as potentially somewhat of a respite. Jim Boeheim, the coach, gets a vote of confidence. The chancellor of the university, Nancy Cantor, saying, "Jim Boeheim`s our coach. He`s getting ready for a game. We`re very pleased with what he had to say Sunday night, and we stand by him."

Still one of the questions: what all did Jim Boeheim know? He says at this point in 2005, he knew that the university conducted an investigation. Nothing was found wrong concerning his longtime friend and assistant coach, Bernie Fine.

So that`s where it stands now. Game going on behind us. It will be an interesting atmosphere. Probably even more interesting, the post-game press conference as Coach Jim Boeheim has to deal with some questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, if he knew in 2005, this coach, that there was an investigation, given that we`re talking about ball boys here, I think it was incumbent upon him to do something more.

And it actually makes it more shocking, Tom, that when he heard about these accusations, he says they are lies, and he says that it`s money grubbing, and then he`s forced to backpedal when this shocking phone call comes out that we`re going to play right now.

The world was shocked to hear what ESPN says is a telephone call between alleged victim No. 1, Bobby Davis, and Bernie Fine`s own wife, Laurie. The conversation they have is jaw-dropping. Listen to this clip.


LAURIE FINE, BERNIE FINE`S WIFE: He wants you to grab him? Or (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him?

BOBBY DAVIS, ALLEGED VICTIM: No, he`s -- he`s trying to make me -- no he`d try to make he grab him, I mean, he`s like, but at first he would grab me and start, you know, touching me...

FINE: But you never had any oral sex with him?



DAVIS: But he`s -- I think he would want to, but...

Fine: Oh, of course he would! Why wouldn`t he?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. After that, Tom Kenniff, the coach says, "Well, I hope I didn`t offend anybody," and he backtracks. But his initial gut reaction was to call the accusers liars and say they were out for money.

KENNIFF: Jane, let me make two points. One, I`m not -- I`m not a fan of throwing the head coach under a bus. I wasn`t a fan of that in the Penn State case with Joe Paterno, and I don`t necessarily agree with it in this case, because he`s a basketball coach. He`s not a school administrator.

However, I do disagree. He has absolutely no business running defense for his assistant coach, Bernie Fine. He has no business making comments on a case that is really -- at this point is subject to the authorities to deal with, the administrators of Syracuse University. So he can`t have it both ways. He can`t absolve himself of responsibility but also act as a de facto advocate for his assistant coach.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, we have to point out that Bobby Davis, his accuser -- this is very complicated. He also had a sexual relationship with Laurie Fine when he was a senior in high school, and in fact, CNN`s Gary Tuchman went to Laurie Fine, Bernie Fine`s wife`s home to try to get a comment from her. Here`s how far he got.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ms. Fine, I`m Gary Tuchman with CNN. I`m sorry to bother you.

FINE: You`re not bothering me.

TUCHMAN: But I was hoping I could...

FINE: I have no comment.

TUCHMAN: Your nephew was saying that...

FINE: We have no statement.

TUCHMAN: You`re not going to make a statement?

FINE: No comment.

TUCHMAN: Is that tape misinterpreted?

FINE: I can`t comment.

TUCHMAN: How come you can`t comment?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. In this ESPN clip, Laurie Fine, the wife of the coach who`s been accused of child sexual assault, apparently says she knew everything that went on. Listen to this.


FINE: I know everything that went on. You know, I know everything that went on with him. Bernie has issues. Maybe that he`s not aware of, but he has issues. And you trusted somebody you shouldn`t have trusted.


FINE: Bernie is also in denial. I think that he did the things he did, but somehow through his own mental telepathy has erased it out of his mind.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Pat Brown, you`re saying, "Whoa, they have to have proof." Now we hear, oh, the wife of the person who`s being accused acts like she`s known everything and uses -- make references to oral sex -- "Oh, did you have oral sex with him," and questions like that. But you know, how do we find that out if we don`t investigate? How do we know where it leads?

Even if the statute of limitations had passed, maybe something else was happening to someone else. And indeed, there is a third accuser who`s come forward who says at the very time that Bobby Davis was trying to get cops to take his story seriously about what happened back in the `80s and the `90s, allegedly, vis-a-vis Bernie Fine, another -- another young man claims he was being sexually abused at the same time. So that`s why I think it`s important, Pat.

BROWN: Well, I agree. I`m not saying that an investigation shouldn`t be done. I`m just saying they`re very, very difficult.

And what I would like to see happen, which has never been happening, is that when we have a person who is found to be sexually assaulting children -- I call them serial rapists -- it doesn`t matter if it`s just one child. If you do it more than once, you`re a serial rapist. You just have an easy victim. You should be in prison for life and your child shouldn`t have to come and visit you. I`ve seen -- I`ve actually seen children have to go visit their father who`s raped them in jail so they can keep up their relationship with the rapist.

And if there is a wife who was knowledgeable of what was going on, when she has aided and abetted a serial rapist, she needs to be in prison, as well. We don`t have enough laws, because we keep calling it molestation, and he just touched the kid. Let`s give him six months of some therapy. He`s a rapist, a serial rapist, if that`s what he did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we are all over this story. We might have some developments for you a little bit later on. Hang in there.

Up next, the Orlando mother who vanished after appearing on "People`s Court" with her ex-fiance. Cops say they have a suspect now, and you won`t believe who it is. We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think from the get-go, a lot of us, I know myself have said, that all possibilities have been opened. There`s not been one thing at one time that wasn`t being looked at. So from the get- go, there was everything that was being looked at. So I don`t think there was a single time as a family that we ever let that slip our mind.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Florida man is now the primary suspect in the disappearance of his former fiance, who appeared on "The People`s Court." Remember this?

MICHELLE PARKER, MISSING WOMAN: I felt somebody grab me and yank me around. I`m crying, he`s crying. He`s sorry, you`re sorry.

YVONNE STEWART, MICHELLE PARKER`S MOM: This isn`t a wallet. This isn`t just a purse. This is my baby girl. We need to find her.

PARKER: We brushed it under the rug, and I stayed with him for a few more months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re like drugs to each other. You`re addicted to each other.

CHIEF PAUL ROONEY, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We are officially naming Dale Smith, the ex-fiance, as the primary suspect in the disappearance of Michelle Parker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This weekend, the SWAT team raided Smith`s parents` house, and then we found out he refused to take a polygraph test.

STEWART: My daughter is still not found. She is still missing. I am so sad this has happened, but we have to do what we have to do. We still need to find Michelle.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight we also have breaking news in the missing "People`s Court" mom. Michelle Parker, that stunning mother of three, went missing almost two weeks ago, the very same day this episode of the "People`s Court" aired, showing a very feisty legal battle between her and her ex-fiance, and now cops say they have a prime suspect. Want to guess who it is?


ROONEY: After numerous tips and investigative leads, we are officially naming Dale Smith, the ex-fiance, as the primary suspect in the disappearance of Michelle Parker.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle`s family says they`re not surprised, especially since Dale was the last person to see their daughter, but he now refuses to take a polygraph test that might clear him.


STEWART: If you could have avoided this, Dale, if you could have cooperated with the police and took a polygraph test when they asked you, you know, you could have -- you could have eliminated a lot of stress. So, unfortunately, you brought this on yourself. We`re not going to stop until we find out who did this. We love our Michelle so much.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This family`s been through such hell, and their hell continues. We`ve heard reports of this guy`s mile-long criminal record. By the way, he`s in a hot body contest there. What is it with hot body contests, I ask?

And we`ve heard about the pair`s stormy relationship. Is this guy -- he`s not hiding his torso, but is he hiding something else? Does he hold the key to finding his ex-fiance? What do you think? Give me a call: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Matt Morgan. You are the attorney for the family of the missing women, the missing woman. Originally, they have really, really, really defended Dale. They -- they actually were very upset if we even asked a question about his possible involvement. Has that changed? And if so, why, Matt?

MATT MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF MICHELLE PARKER: Jane, they remain hopeful that ultimately Dale had nothing to do with this. And they remain hopeful that Michelle is alive and well. And so nothing has -- nothing has really changed at this point, other than the fact that he`s -- he`s became named a primary suspect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a big change, though. Let`s be real. That`s not a huge -- that`s not a small development. That`s huge for the police to come out, and police often don`t say anything about anything. And say that...

MORGAN: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the last person who saw her, the person she was fighting with on "The People`s Court," which aired the day she disappeared, this man, without the shirt, her ex-fiance, is a prime suspect. What is the reaction of the missing woman`s family to that?

MORGAN: You know, I really don`t think -- we met with them earlier today, and they`re so heartbroken by the entirety of the situation that, you know, it`s just kind of another issue for them to deal with.

But like I said, in our meeting, they did express that they truly hope that he had nothing to do with it. They don`t want, you know, their children to have to deal with that kind of nightmare.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, in fact, Michelle`s mom tried to reach out to Dale during a news conference, telling him she understands every couple has their fights. Listen to this.


STEWART: Dale, honestly, if you`re out there, honey, and you`re listening to me, I have always said, from day one, it`s OK if couples fight. I`ve fought. I`ve fought with my sister. I`ve fought with my husband. I`ve fought with my kids. If you made a mistake and it was just a second of, like, oh, I lost my head, or whatever and you didn`t know what to do, our family needs to have Michelle home. We need to heal.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, guess what? there is a very, very, very toxic history here. In 2009, Michelle tried to get a restraining order against this guy, and she was denied, even though he has a huge criminal record. Burglary, 1990. Drug possession, aggravated battery, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. 2003, discharged from the military after court-martials for drug possession and domestic battery.

Steve Helling, staff writer at "People" magazine, everybody has fights, yes, but this man sounds like these were no ordinary fights. A friend has said some very horrifying things about what he allegedly did to her, before she disappeared.

STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes, obviously, you can look at the rap sheet, and it`s obvious he`s not a choir boy. It`s obvious that there have been some really black spots in his past -- past.

One thing that was very interesting is in the -- in Martin James` press conference today, he really -- he really didn`t want to get into the...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re out of time. So sorry



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve heard about some of the stories on the news from people, but I just want to let everyone know, I`m not that type of person. If you know me, then you know the truth. I`ve heard they found her truck, but I don`t know anything else. I hope she is found safe and sound.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That from NBC and the Internet. Now Dale Smith, the ex-fiance of the missing woman, has lawyered up with Florida hotshot criminal attorney Mark Nejame. You remember this guy. We had him on all the time during the Casey Anthony trial. Oh, well, I guess we`re not going to show him to you.

All right. We`re going to go out to the phone lines. Bev, Nebraska, your question or thought, Bev?



CALLER: I just want to let you know that I think you and everyone at HLN are doing a wonderful job.


CALLER: And I was watching last night on "NANCY GRACE," and there were -- there was breaking -- there was breaking news about a body being found in the vicinity of where the Hummer was, and I was just wondering if...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What happened with that? It`s an excellent question. Steve Helling, staff writer, "People" magazine?

HELLING: Actually, that was a body of a male. That was not -- that ended up not being Michelle. And obviously, once they realized that this was a guy, you know, they moved on when it comes to this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s happening with the twins? I understand there`s breaking news involving the twins that this couple had?

HELLING: Yes. We just got notification that DCS has taken the twins away from Dale Smith at the moment, and they are in what they call protective custody. We don`t know whether that means: they`ll ultimately go with one of the sets of grandparents or where they`re going to go. But what we do know right now is they`re not in the home of Dale Smith.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hmm, wow. This is -- this is pretty fascinating.

Things were rocky between this couple, and it sounds like alcohol made it worse. What a shock. Listen to this from Warner Brothers` "People`s Court."


PARKER: He gets pretty malicious and vindictive, and he`s a mean person, especially when he`s been drinking. Any of the problems that we`ve ever had, it`s always been alcohol related.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you drinking as...

PARKER: I`m sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you drinking?

PARKER: Yes, I`m drinking with him as well.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Pat Brown, criminal profiler, what you heard there on the "People`s Court," that is always a bad sign. Alcohol, he has a history of drugs, as well. And domestic violence. And according to one woman who spoke publicly, she claims that the missing woman told her that he would sometimes drop her off without shoes in the middle of nowhere. I have no idea if that`s true, but this is sounding like a very toxic, toxic and dangerous relationship.

BROWN: Well, what he says is -- you know, "People don`t know what I`m like." Well, let me tell them what he`s like. He`s like a criminal. He`s like a violent human being. He`s like a person who has no respect for other people. That`s called psychopathy. This -- when you have a history like that -- I mean, healthy, emotional people, healthy people who care about others do not continually break the law in the way that he has broken the law. And unfortunately, he may have broken the law again.

And all we can say is, thank God the children are still alive, because that is not a house those children should be, you know, in with that kind of a man.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank God that those kids are with Laurel Erickson. Very quickly, lie detector test not reliable. That`s why he`s not taking it, he says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he`s going to take a lie detector test, Jane, the way this is done, especially since he has representation, is that his defense attorney will have him do a lie detector with his own expert, so that if they don`t like the results, they don`t have to share them with anyone. No defense attorney is going to march them in there and give a lie detector test to the Orlando P.D. It`s not going to happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll stay on top of it. Up next, Michael Jackson`s doctor.



JUDGE MICHAEL PASTER, LA SUPERIOR COURT: Michael Jackson died because of the actions of Dr. Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four years is not enough. Four years is not enough.

JUDGE PASTOR: Experimental medicine is not going to be tolerated and Mr. Jackson was an experiment. He engaged in this "money for medicine" madness.

LATOYA JACKSON, SISTER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I absolutely do believe he was murdered.

Thank you, America. Thank all the fans. Thank the prosecuting team, Walgren, you were great. Everybody was wonderful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not here to seek revenge. There is nothing you can do today that will bring Michael back.

JUDGE PASTOR: Dr. Murray abandoned his patient. He has absolutely no sense of remorse, absolutely no sense of fault, and is and remains dangerous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The hammer comes down on Michael Jackson`s personal doctor. And a warning goes out to dishonest greedy doctors everywhere.

Hi, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell back with you live from New York City. The medical establishment had better take a good, long look in the mirror, because if you`re prescribing meds for greed and profit, you are headed to the slammer. That`s the message here, two years after Michael Jackson died from an overdose of Propofol.

Three weeks after Dr. Conrad Murray was found guilty, his sentence was handed down. He got the max, four years in jail, and no chance of probation, even though he was eligible, but we`ll have to see what actually happens. We`ll have to see if he does more than a night or two in jail. We still don`t know that right now.

The judge, he was furious. He was livid. He actually came close to accusing Dr. Conrad Murray of blackmail. Remember when there was an audio recording made of a drugged-out, wasted Michael Jackson? Listen to this.


MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: He was the greatest entertainer in the world.

I hurt, you know? I hurt.


JUDGE PASTOR: That tape recording was Dr. Murray`s insurance policy. If there had been some conflict between Michael Jackson and Dr. Murray at a later point in time in their relationship, what value would be placed on that tape recording?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And what he`s saying, essentially, is that Dr. Conrad Murray was trying to blackmail Michael Jackson. Give me a call about all of this, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. What did you take away from today`s sentencing? 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to famed prosecutor, Marcia Clark, author of the fantastic book, "Guilt by Association", you`ll read it in one rainy day. Marcia, an extraordinary, extraordinary condemnation, scolding, shout-down -- whatever you want to call it from this judge, basically. I couldn`t believe my ears.

We were all suspicious about that recording. Why did he make that recording on his phone of Michael Jackson slurring his words? This judge basically put it out there that he was trying to blackmail him.

MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION: True. And certainly that is one interpretation, Jane. I don`t know that it`s necessarily a definitive one. We`re speculating, of course, about why the doctor might do that. We can`t know for sure why.

But it does seem odd. I mean, why would you make a recording like that at all, you know? It makes you wonder, it makes you speculate. You know, what is the value of that recording? And blackmail is certainly one very prominent notion that comes to mind.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to say, I was really, really happy about how all this went down, because I`ve written a book called "Addict Nation", where I talk about how we try to solve every problem that we have in this country with a pill, popping a pill. Physical, mental, emotional, what have you. And a lot of times these doctors are hooking -- hooking people on very, very serious mood-altering heavy-duty narcotics; things that are potentially life-threatening, very addictive.

This sentence, I believe, was designed to have doctors quaking in their boots, that they even think -- if they even think about prescribing drugs for bad reasons, like to make a buck, they could be in big trouble. Listen to the judge lay down the law.


JUDGE PASTOR: Experimental medicine is not going to be tolerated. And Mr. Jackson was an experiment. He engaged in this "money for medicine" madness.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, addiction specialist, founder and CEO of The Hills Treatment Center. I think this could be a turning point for the United States. More people are keeling over from legal prescription drugs than they are from illegal drugs. In many cases, more people are dying from prescription ODs than from car accidents. This is a crisis and I believe this judge and the DA wanted to send a message.

HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER AND CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Jane, you`re absolutely right. You know, this is fantastic news. I mean, the prescription drug epidemic if this country is outrageous. And there are so many corrupt doctors that we are fighting in the treatment field and the recovery community. There are so many corrupt doctors that are out there, overprescribing for greed, Jane.

This is giving a message to all of them, that you better watch out, because we`re watching. And this, to me, is such a message that we can send to the medical community that it`s time to stop this abuse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: After the sentencing, Los Angeles district attorney said almost the same thing. He issued a powerful, powerful warning to crooked docs out there and said your days are numbers. Watch this.


L.A. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The so-called Dr. Feelgood doctors who, because of their greed and selfishness abandon their ethics and put other people in harm`s way.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The DA said the number one cause of accidental unnatural deaths is prescription drug overdoses, more than fatal traffic accidents. Now, it`s certainly either that or close to it.

Tom Kenniff, I just thought it was marvelous that, essentially, they used Dr. Conrad Murray as the extreme, crazy example, somebody who was giving him gallons of a surgical knockout drug, to say to all these doctors who are sitting around and writing scripts for profit, you better watch out.

TOM KENNIFF, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, my problem with all this is in sort of this public lynching of Dr. Murray, we`re really shifting all responsibility away from Michael Jackson. Look, by all reasonable accounts, Michael Jackson had led a very tumultuous life, probably a lot of psychological and a lot of problems with substance abuse before -- long before he met Dr. Murray. Dr. Murray may not have been a hero in this case and he may have violated the standard of care in a lot of medical --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not "may", he violated the standard of care.

KENNIFF: He did. You know what, Jane, we have a mechanism for dealing with that, and that`s usually a medical malpractice lawsuit or a wrongful death lawsuit, which you can sue the pants off Dr. Murray, the AMA can revoke his medical license, he can suffer a lot of consequences. It`s an extreme thing to bring this type of case into criminal court and to sentence someone to prison.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why I think it`s effective. It`s effective because I do believe -- doctors out there, if you`re watching, give us a call. I think doctors who are watching this are thinking, did I prescribe that heavy-duty, mood-altering medication to that 65-year-old lady? Was it necessary, did she really need that?

They don`t know very much about addiction -- Howard Samuels, you`ll back me up on this -- they don`t know, doctors are not trained in addiction. I`m a recovering alcoholic and an addict. I know how addicts will cleverly pretend to have severe, severe pain to get the drugs that they want. I know the best way to get a good patient is to have a patient who wants to come back for those drugs again and again and again.

I know the vast majority of doctors are -- the vast majority are caring, responsible people. But we have a cultural problem in this country, a cultural problem, where everybody is being encouraged to, oh, ask your doctor about this pill, ask your doctor about that pill. And if you don`t get it, they go to another doctor.

So we`ve got a whole cultural problem here. And I really hope that we start solving it.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Mary, Florida, your question or thought, Mary?

MARY, FLORIDA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. It`s really nice to talk to you. I watch your show every night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, thank you.

MARY: And I think you`re awesome.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. I think you`re awesome too. What`s your question?

MARY: My question is regarding just the overall outcome of the case, and what I want to say is, I`ve been an RN for more years than I care to say and any doctor that would do this, unfortunately, deserves even more than what he got. The charges in the case were probably not sufficient for the --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, Mary, I agree with you.

MARY: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something, the prosecutor and the judge, they were, can I say PO`d by the documentary that Conrad Murray made while he was on trial. Look at this from NBC.


DR. CONRAD MURRAY, FOUND GUILTY IN MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: I don`t feel guilty. Because I did not do anything wrong. I am very, very sorry for the loss of Michael. Michael is a personal friend.

JUDGE PASTOR: He has absolutely no sense of remorse, absolutely no sense of fault. And is and remains dangerous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marcia Clark, famed O.J. Simpson prosecutor, did making that documentary backfire on Conrad Murray?

CLARK: Oh, most certainly, it did, as it should. I think it`s appalling that he was doing a documentary in the course of his trial while these charges are pending. It`s unbelievable to me that he would seek to profit from a case in which he was a defendant and caused the death of another human being. It`s just incredible.

And I`m really glad that the judge called him out on it. I`m glad the judge mentioned it. There are many signs in this case that he is absolutely remorseless, and lack of remorse is an appropriate factor, is an appropriate factor for a judge to consider in imposing sentence. And certainly, Conrad Murray gave him ample cause to believe that there was no remorse in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Howard Samuels, I don`t think Dr. Conrad Murray`s addicted to anything, but he has the addict mentality in the sense that he is arrogant, defiant, and he has justified himself and is actually having a pity party, blaming Michael Jackson and saying he`s the victim. Quickly, Howard?

SAMUELS: He`s addicted to greed, Jane. It is about money for that doctor; just like it is for a lot of doctors, who are addicted to greed. It`s never enough. That is the addiction there.


Up next, my exclusive interview with the only juror, who`s behind closed doors who is speaking out. Juror Number Five is up next.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so happy. I just thank god that we have justice today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so happy that Murray finally got handcuffs on him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just got cuffed. Thank you. Justice has been served.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murderer. Murderer. Murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you going to do? Huh, what you going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just like the stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED) doctor did. Nothing. You hurt. You`re sad and already hurt.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You all remember that chaos. I was there every day, with outside court with the Jackson fans who were feuding and fighting with the Conrad Murray supporters. And now I`m very delighted to be here with Juror Number Five, Debby Franklin, a mother of two, a paralegal, and she was one of those 12 behind closed doors who decided to convict Dr. Conrad Murray.

Thank you for joining us, Debby. What was your awareness of the craziness outside? Because it was crazy out there. You and the other jurors, what did you know?

DEBBY FRANKLIN, JUROR NUMBER FIVE IN CONRAD MURRAY TRIAL: We didn`t know anything that was going on out there. We were escorted in every day. We never went past the front of the courthouse. And really didn`t have any idea what was going on outside.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Conrad Murray, by the way, defended himself in an interview taped just days before the verdict. Here he is on NBC, talking about the bodyguard who made the 911 call. Listen to this.


MURRAY: He says, oh, doctor, doctor, what happened? I need help. I am doing CPR. Mr. Jackson`s not breathing. Come in here. Get me -- call 911. I need you to call 911.

In addition to me doing CPR, chest compressions, and trying to resuscitate this patient, he`s -- I`m controlling him on the 911 call. How old is this patient? 50. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) over here. Get here. I need you. Come on. Help me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Debby, as a juror, what did you and the other jurors make of this character of Dr. Conrad Murray, who seemed to point the finger at everyone else, who seemed to try to behave as if he were the victim.

FRANKLIN: We really thought he was a good doctor. I think he just got himself into something over his head. He couldn`t say no, and that`s what got him into trouble.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The jury came back with a guilty verdict and you were one of those jurors. So let`s listen to that.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant Conrad Robert Murray, guilty of the crime of involuntary manslaughter, in violation of penal code section 192, subsection B; alleged victim, Michael Joseph Jackson.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What we really want to know is what went on behind closed doors? I understand at the end of the first day, there was a lot of arguing. Paint a picture for us. What was it like? Take us behind those closed doors?

FRANKLIN: We all had a lot of questions, so everybody`s trying to talking over each other, trying to get what they wanted to say, because we hadn`t been able to talk about it so long, and this was our first chance to be able to talk about it with each other. By the end of Friday, we decided that the three issues that we were going focus on were the not calling 911, not having the medical equipment, and him leaving the room.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Arguably the most shocking part of this trial was the audio tape of Michael Jackson slurring his words. Let`s listen for a second.


M. JACKSON: When people leave my show, I want them to say, I`ve never seen nothing like this in my life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was the discussion in the jury room about this tape; was there a debate about Michael Jackson being an addict or not?

FRANKLIN: No. We talked about that, that audio a little bit. We didn`t really understand why it was presented or what the reason why it was presented? I don`t know if they were trying to say that this was some time that he had woken up from Conrad Murray giving him something, if this was a day that he came back from Dr. Klein and was talking like this. We never really understood the whole purpose of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you think, listening to the testimony as a juror, that Michael Jackson was an addict?

FRANKLIN: In the end to us, it didn`t matter whether he was an addict and what he was addicted to, it came down to what happened between 10:30 in the morning and basically 12:00 or 12:30 that afternoon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Debby; the only juror speaking out.

Up next, is the man who`s a suspect in that Aruba case getting out?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly if Robyn was still alive, she would have turned up by now. She would have presented herself and Gary wouldn`t be doing through this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I asked him what he felt of his release, he started to cry and asked me to excuse him for a few minutes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have some breaking news tonight. And it might shock you because you think sometimes when there`s a lot of circumstantial evidence that would be enough to hold somebody. But you can`t hold somebody forever, even if you have suspicions about them.

So it turns out the sole suspect in the disappearance of this beautiful American woman -- this is the guy who is the sole suspect -- he has walked free, reportedly. There you see him trying to cover his face. We have just learned that Gary Giordano was just released, moments ago, from jail after being held for nearly four months; something like 160 days in the case of this missing American beauty, Robyn Gardner.

Now, Giordano told cops that he and Robyn went snorkeling and that she just drifted away. Now, her family doesn`t believe that for a second. Her family doesn`t believe it because she wasn`t the type of girl to go snorkeling. She didn`t like snorkeling. And there were also reports that they had both been drinking -- drinking heavily. Who goes drinking heavily and then goes snorkeling right after? I don`t know.

I`m a recovering alcoholic. I just drank heavily, never snorkeling afterwards. Authorities have been scouring for proof to keep this guy behind bars but they have nothing more than circumstantial evidence. And a judge in Aruba refused to hold Gary Giordano any longer. He`s now reportedly planning to bolt before an appeals court meets tomorrow morning that might decide to try to bring him back.

I want to go straight out to Marcia Clark, famed O.J. Simpson prosecutor and author of the great book, "Guilt by Association". The legal system in Aruba -- we learned this in the Natalee Holloway case is very different than the American legal system. But ironically they can actually hold somebody longer without charging them, for 116 (ph) days, than we could here in the United States, Marcia.

CLARK: That`s correct. Here, we can`t hold them unless they are being charged. You have 48 hours to hold someone without charges. And then you must charge him or release.

In Aruba, not so; they can hold him for quite a long period of time as long as they keep giving reviews to the judge of what the progress of the investigation is. So people have been held for long periods of time while an investigation is ongoing. And the only requirement is that they report to the judge about their progress.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what`s so bizarre about these cases -- it`s like six degrees of separation with all the famous cases. Gary Giordano now has a very famous attorney, Jose Baez, known, of course, for the Casey Anthony trial. Listen to what Jose told ABC`s "Good Morning America".


JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR GARY GIORDANO: Should they decide to extradite him, Gary is not going to run from anything. He`ll come back voluntarily.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marsha, this guy has a history. He`s arrested for shoplifting, he has domestic violence complaints, complaints that he secretly recorded sex sessions with other women. Your thoughts?

CLARK: I`m sorry. You cut out, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your thoughts about there`s a lot of incriminating things that we could say about this guy. He has a bad history.

CLARK: Yes, very bad. I don`t know if you heard about this, but there were also petty complaints against him for harassment of neighbors doing really bizarre things like leaving a dead squirrel underneath someone`s windshield wiper.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.



MICHAEL LOPEZ, ATTORNEY: They couldn`t stand anymore. She signed -- he signed to go back. When he reached shore, she was nowhere to be seen.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marsha, what do you make of the $1.5 million accidental death policy Gary Giordano took out on her?

CLARK: You know, that is one of the most suspicious and sinister things about it. He took that policy out two days before they left for Aruba. So you`re talking about somebody who -- who does this? He doesn`t even know her that well. It`s one thing when husbands and wives take out mutual policies with each other when they`re going to travel for the benefit of the children. But to take out a policy on someone you barely know with your first trip out on her, two days before you leave, it looks horrible.

And then of course, the reports are that when he called in to claim his -- to claim the benefits of that policy that he sounded like he`d won the lottery -- hardly a grieving person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there, Marcia. I`m going to talk to Jose Baez Thursday.