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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Jodi Arias Accuses Victim of Being Pedophile, Rapist

Aired February 11, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, an unbelievable extraordinary day in court. Jodi Arias accuses the man she viciously killed of being a pedophile and rapist. Breaking down repeatedly, she also accuses Travis Alexander having sex with her while she`s asleep.

Travis` family sits in the courtroom visibly angry, as Jodi claims Travis was sexually aroused by young boys. Is she lying through her teeth?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, the world according to Jodi Arias. She`s back on the stand, claiming Travis was a lying, cheating sexual deviant who raped her while she was sleeping and whom she once caught with child porn. He claims Travis paid her to clean his house in a French maid outfit, one of several kinky games. But where`s the corroboration for these claims? And why didn`t Jodi just leave Travis?

Jodi says she was a doormat, part of her "no self-esteem" theme. But is that self-defense? We`ll debate it with our expert panel.

And we`re taking your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I woke up, and he was on top of me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t want to be alone with her, did he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He, like, when I was there or when my sister was there, that they weren`t physical.

ARIAS: He said that`s hot.

KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How did you feel wearing these boy`s underwear?

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Travis left Jodi no other option but to defend herself.

NURMI: Had he been violent with you?

WILLMOTT: She learned to deal with his temper by being humble, compliant and agreeable.

NURMI: Had you seen instances of his temper?

ARIAS: And he smashed it, and I went into the bathroom and shut the door. And I was clicking around on his phone and found the text messages and began to read them.

WILLMOTT: During this phone call, Travis tells her that she sounds like a 12-year-old girl. It`s so hot.

ARIAS: We were erotic. They made me feel sexy and attractive.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This, of course, is the world according to Jodi Arias.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, claims of rape and pedophilia in court today as Jodi Arias breaks down and sobs on the stand, describing walking in on Travis Alexander on his bed while he was in a sexual activity with photos of little boys surrounding him. Will the jury believe Jodi`s graphic sexual stories and now these accusations of pedophilia?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

What a wild day in court. The beautiful 32-year-old photographer on trial for stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slicing Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, and putting a bullet in his head. But she claims it was all done in self-defense.

Well, late this afternoon, Jodi described in graphic detail, allegedly, walking in on Travis and seeing pictures of little boys in their underwear while he was pleasuring himself. We warn you: this is graphic, but it`s what Jodi said in open court. It`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded and abused by Travis. Listen to this.


ARIAS: I walked in, and Travis was on the bed (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and I got really embarrassed. It was a picture of a little boy. Oh, 5-ish, 5, 6. I`m not a good judge of age. He was dressed in underwear, like briefs.

I was frozen there for a minute. And I just ran. I didn`t stay. I felt nauseated. And I ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.

And I kept thinking what if he was hurt as a kid, and it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him. And I wanted to talk to him and find out what was wrong with -- like what was going on with him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Do you believe it or not? Call me: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court for this extremely dramatic and emotional moment. Tell us what it was like in there.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, this was the biggest day for the defense so far, I have to tell you, sitting in that courtroom.

First off, on Jodi`s side, her father and her younger brother appeared in court today. This is the first time we`ve ever seen them. She had a big turnout in court for family support today. And some people were wondering, well, was this done on purpose?

Because she did turn around at one point, when she`s giving all these sexual allegations, she`s telling us these stories, and said, "You know, this is really hard for me, because my parents are sitting in the courtroom." And of course, front and center, her father, her mom, her brother, her aunt. They`re all sitting there, and she`s describing all these sexual acts that Travis made her do with him, and it was definitely shocking. I mean, she`s talking about child pornography. She`s talking about what he would make her do in the bedroom, how he would make her dress.

And so that was definitely the most shocking moment, was when she was giving the allegations, the parents are there, and she even said, you know, this is really difficult for me.

And I have to tell you, for those of us sitting in the courtroom, this is one of the days where you can kind of sympathize with Jodi a little bit. People were, like, well, maybe you can understand her side of things. I think this is the first day that we`ve really heard Jodi`s side of the story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And now she feels really comfortable on the stand after several days. It`s like she`s sort of owning the courtroom. But should she be owning the courtroom? We`re going to debate it.

Listen to this, a day, as you just heard, of shocking claims. One of the most stunning was Jodi claimed that Travis raped her. Jodi testified Travis began having sexual intercourse with her while she was fast asleep. I`m not saying drugged or drunk or restrained, just asleep. Listen to this.


ARIAS: He fell asleep, and I woke up, and he was on top of me. And he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

NURMI: Did you give thought to the idea that this man was having sex with you while you were not conscious?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t give thought to that idea.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, she`s accused him of pedophilia. She`s accused him of rape. But all these things happening where only two men in the room, Jodi and the man that she killed. Therefore, he cannot speak for himself.

Let`s bring in our legal team. We are going to debate it. We have an incredible team tonight. The famed Gloria Allred, victims` rights attorney; Adam Swickle; Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; Randy Zelin.

We`re going to start with -- let`s see -- Gloria Allred. Is this fair? Should the judge have allowed all this stuff in? Is she just basically taking control of this trial?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I think what she`s trying to do is give as much latitude to the defense as possible.

What the defense appears to be doing is trying to weave a theme that Jodi Arias was somehow a battered woman, that Travis had the power, had the control over her; that she was being abused; that somehow because he was a battered woman, this leads into the self-defense scenario that she perceived that she was being attacked, and she had to fight back. It`s a stretch. It`s a hard sell, but I think that`s what`s happening.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Adam Swickle?

ADAM SWICKLE, ATTORNEY: I`ve got to tell you, Jane, with every word that comes out of Arias`s mouth, the state`s case gets worse and worse and worse. This is strong, powerful evidence, and the judge absolutely should let this in. This woman is fighting for her life, and there`s absolutely no reason why the judge should stand in the way of the defense being able to put on their case.

Their relationship is absolutely relevant to this case, and I think the judge is doing a great job. And let`s not forget: a judge in the back of their mind is always thinking about "If I don`t let certain things in, especially in a murder or a death penalty case, am I setting up an appeal?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stacey...

SWICKLE: So this judge is doing the right thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a feeling, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, this doesn`t agree with you.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Listen, I agree with one thing that Adam had to say. The judge has to let this in, because it`s a death penalty case. If they don`t let it in, there`s going to be a problem.

Is this testimony going to mean anything to self-defense? Absolutely not. You know, what everyone seems to forget is she gave three stories to the police. And so this is a crime of desperation. It`s her calling card. "I have nothing else to say, but I had to do it." So how do you say "I had to do it"? "I was battered." Now he`s in pedophilia. And how many guys are attracted to little boys and are masturbating and then have full-blown sex with a heterosexual female? I mean, and that`s what you`re talking about.

The prosecution will have a field day with her when it`s their opportunity to get up and cross-examine her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Randy Zelin, criminal defense attorney, they seem to be weaving it together by emphasizing that he allegedly wanted to have anal sex with her.

RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, there is no question here that the prosecution has once again overcharged. They`ve gone for the brass ring.

This woman has four chances to walk out of this courtroom. No. 1, the jury could say, "You know what? This guy got what was coming to him. She was the right person to do it." Jury nullification.

They can look at it and say, "Heat of passion," which now she`s looking at seven years. She`s already got 4 1/2 in.

You can get one juror to say, "I don`t know what`s going on here." But you know what? She`s going to get a do-over.

There are so many different ways for this woman to walk out of the courtroom, and the jury has long since forgotten all the number of stories. They`re focused in -- focused on the pedophilia, the rape and what this woman has gone through. And that the injuries are consistent with her getting knocked around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear somebody chatting in the background. Go ahead.

HONOWITZ: The guy is -- did everyone seem to forget that this man was in the shower, after they had sex, after she went to his house? Why does everyone seem to forget it?

I mean, honestly, she went to his house. No one was keeping her there. He didn`t have any mystical powers. He wasn`t Rev. Sun Myung Moon and she was a Moonie and had to be with him. This was her choice. If he`s a deviant in sex, doesn`t mean she gets to kill him, and that`s what it`s boiling down to.


SWICKLE: That`s just part of the theory. That`s just part of the theory...

ALLRED: Jane, this is also going to be a problem when...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold, hold. I hear Gloria Allred. I want to give Gloria Allred a chance to have a word.

ALLRED: Yes. I want to say this is going to be a problem, I think, for the jury once if, as I expect, they will hear that no child pornography was found on his computer, and also no photos of anyone having sex with young boys wore found in his residence. I think there`s going to be doubt in the jury`s mind, and then that could lead to their doubting Jodi Arias`s story, big-time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if they doubt, will they be angry because they`re being deceived?

Wow, an extraordinary day. A hot panel. We`re just getting started.


ARIAS: He fell asleep, and I woke up and he was on top of me. And he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

NURMI: Did you give thought to the idea that this man was having sex with you while you were not conscious?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t give thought to that idea.




WILLMOTT: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis` continual abuse. And on June 4th of 2008, it had reached a point of no return. Travis tied Jodi up, tied her to the bed. They engaged in sexual activity.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi told the jury about triple-X-rated fantasies she and Travis acted out. And here`s one, late at night allegedly, on her front porch. Again, we have to warn you, this is very graphic stuff. But it`s what Jodi said in open court, and it`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was abused by Travis. Listen to this.


ARIAS: He wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jodi claimed they carried out that fantasy not once, but twice.

Listen, they had a highly sexualized relationship. It`s been established they took X-rated photos of each other, and we saw X-rated photos -- triple-X-photos that Travis took of Jodi -- Jodi`s private parts.

But I want to bring in Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, author of "Till Death Do Us Part."

Let`s talk about erotic humiliation for a second, because a lot of people don`t realize how common it is. They don`t want to talk about it. It`s an underground thing. It`s embarrassing. Nobody talks about it. But erotic humiliation is a sex game, a fetish that people play consensually all the time.

If she engaged in erotic humiliation -- in other words, if she was turned off by being sexually humiliated by Travis Alexander, that is not an argument for self-defense. That means she got off on it.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, Jodi is a seductress. And so first of all, I question whether what she`s saying is accurate.

Having said that, if you are a consenting adult, you can say, "You know what? I go along with kinky sex," because when you look at the continuum, you know, there`s kinky sex to vanilla sex, and there`s no right or wrong. And if there`s humiliation involved, usually two consenting adults will agree to engage in this kind of fantasy.

If that`s not going on, what a lot of women do, and I know because I have this in my practice, they say, "You know what? The guy is kinky. I`m not into it. I`m out of there. It`s a little weird. It`s not what I`m into."

But that`s not what we`re hearing.

And let`s say Jodi engaged in kinky humiliation. There`s a big difference between kinky humiliation and being abused in a relationship. They`re not one in the same.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I want to bring in Tanya Young Williams, who is the celebrity spokesperson for the National Domestic Violence Hotline. Because what we`re doing is we`re creating a big goulash where everything under the sun is being mixed in a giant pot.

And I believe that they did play some kinky sex games, based on the photographs that were found at the crime scene, and I think that there`s a very good chance that some of this is true. Like every good pathological liar, they frame a lie with a lot of truth around it.

So where do you stand on, is this an abuse of the domestic violence argument, to get off on a murder?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY SPOKESPERSON, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE: Well, Jane, first of all, I`ve been a part of a very high-profile case and oftentimes prosecutors, as we all know, will throw everything against the wall to see what sticks. And that`s what they are essentially doing here.

As an advocate for domestic violence, I take special umbrage with the notion that she`s going to claim the domestic violence abuse as a card. It`s not anything to be played with.

I`ve spoken to scores of women, and through what I`ve learned, usually it`s a long-term period of consistent abuse that makes the woman want to crack.

But since this case, I`ve reached out to women who have reached out to me. And not one of these women have said, "You know what? After six months of being a slave toy to someone did I want to slit his throat, I want to shoot him." These acts are not consistent with domestic violence.

And what we have to be very careful of, you can`t play games. Because down the road, there`s a woman who has been beaten over, over and over again, who is the prototype for which this defense is necessary.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and let me bring in...

WILLIAMS: You`re playing with -- I`m sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Jason Lamb, former prosecutor. Because they`re just -- they`re not done. In fact, we`re going to play a sound bite where she then says he starts beating on her. And what they`re trying to say is it starts as a kinky sex game, and it escalates into physical violence.

What -- what can the prosecution do to counteract all this when the only other person who knows what happened behind closed doors is dead?

JASON LAMB, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it`s real simple. You rely on the forensic evidence.

Listen, I`ve prosecuted and I have now defended hundreds of computer forensic-based cases, many dealing with child pornography. Like you said, there was nothing on the computer. Computer forensics are better than DNA; it doesn`t lie. You know what someone was searching for. I think we heard that in another case last year, correct me if I`m wrong.

But the fact of the matter is, what is there to corroborate anything that Jodi Arias is saying? And ultimately, she will choke on her own words, with the multiple statements she was giving. And you look at the computer forensics, that`s going to fall apart.

And you know the best thing for the prosecutor to do? To argue the forensic evidence at the scene. That doesn`t lie. So, you know, forget everything she`s saying.


LAMB: The physical evidence doesn`t lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you say something doesn`t exist equals that she`s lying? Can you say -- I know it makes sense -- that there`s no porn on his computer, there`s no porn found in the house. Therefore, does that mean that she`s lying? I don`t know.

LAMB: The problem is...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side. We`re taking your calls.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s lots of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, first-degree murder, premeditated murder.

WILLMOTT: Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?


ARIAS: I wouldn`t use obsession. It was a two-way street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caused the death of Travis B. Alexander.

ARIAS: I need to be honest, the evidence is very compelling. But none of it proves that I committed a murder.




ARIAS: He crossed the room, and he started shaking me. And he said, "I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) of you," and he body-slammed me on the floor at the floor of his bed.

It startled me. It hurt, but it startled me. He called me a bitch and kicked me in the ribs.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. She is talking there for the first time, holding up her ring finger, claiming that -- and she`s sort of showing -- this reminds me of "If it doesn`t fit you must acquit," the glove incident. But she`s holding up her ring finger and claiming that that shows that her finger was injured by Travis Alexander during that physical altercation.

Beth Karas, that`s the first time, to my knowledge, she`s brought in being physically battered by him. So we`re moving forward toward this battered women`s defense.

There`s a big controversy now over whether or not the prosecutors overcharged, and had they not asked for the death penalty, they would have a lot more leeway to stopping all of these stories, none of which can be corroborated, because the person on the other side is dead.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Listen, the defense wanted to introduce far more evidence on the words of Jodi Arias about this pedophilia. There were these letters she claimed Travis Alexander wrote to her where he talked about these pedophilia fantasies, apparently, but she could never produce the originals and could never say that they were -- I mean, no one could say for sure that they were written by Travis Alexander, although handwriting experts apparently come down on both sides. So they were not admitted.

So the state has been fighting tooth and nail to keep this pedophilia out, because they believe it`s an absolute fabrication. She never once made any mention to Detective Flores in the many conversations before she was arrested and the day of and after her arrest. Even though she was denying the crime at that time, she still could have said, "But I know this about him. Maybe you ought to look at that angle." She never once mentioned it.

This is something that occurred a couple of years after she was incarcerated, and at least to our knowledge from the public file, and gave notice of self-defense.

And by the way, we`re checking tape right now, but she did on July 16, the day after her arrest, tell Detective Flores that, when the two intruders were fighting, the knife missed all her fingers but one. And she held up her left hand and she pointed to a finger that is now damaged. So we`re looking now at the tape to see if it`s that finger that she now says Travis injured.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow. Well, that would be a gotcha for the prosecutor, because it would catch her in a lie. Such fascinating stuff and the way she weaves in, "Oh, I felt like calling the police. I kind of regret that I never did. I kind of regret that I never made a record of it." She`s trying to cover all her bases.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Debbie, New York, your question or thought. Debbie, New York.

CALLER: Hi, Jane, how are you?


CALLER: Jane, if this is such an elaborate tale that she`s spinning, I have to tell you, in my book, so far so good, because I`m finding her quite believable and quite likable, and I never thought I`d be saying this.

But my question is, I think they`re doing very well so far, her defense team. Why would they then allow this child porn issue to come into play when they don`t have corroborating evidence?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, let`s bring in our panel. And I`ll start with Stacey Honowitz. A lot of people are saying if they didn`t have the death penalty, they would have far more leeway to cut down all of this and not allow her to essentially turn this entire trial into a one-woman show, like some kind of monologue, the vagina monologues, as it were.

HONOWITZ: Well, that`s very interesting. And it`s very nice to say that they overcharged. You have to remember what the facts of this case are.

She stole a gun a week before. There`s premeditation. She went to his house with a knife. She stabbed him 29 times and slit his throat from ear to ear. So there`s premeditation.

Now, we don`t know if the judge at any point would have limited this. The pedophilia is irrelevant, and it should not have come in. But because you are looking at a death penalty case, it does. Does it mean that the jury is going to buy into it?

All that prosecutor has to do is get up on cross-examination and hold those photos up, and say, "Why didn`t you leave, why didn`t you go, why didn`t you report?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they`re covering that. One of the interesting things we`re going to debate on the other side, is the defense attorney cleverly co-opting all the questions that the prosecutor might ask, like "why didn`t you leave?" by asking her now? In their direct examination, they keep saying, "Why didn`t you leave?" And she offers a whole variety of answers.

So much more to debate in the Jodi Arias trial right on the other side of the break.

And at the top of the hour, Nancy Grace talks to a close friend and former roommate of Travis Alexander`s, 8 p.m. Eastern, top of the hour.

And more on the other side. More of the amazing testimony of Jodi Arias. We`ll play it for you, next.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On June 10, 2008, police begin their search of Travis Alexander`s home. His bathroom is covered in blood. It`s pooled outside the shower, splattered and smeared all over the sink and bathroom mirror. There`s a bloody palm print on one of the walls.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) He had a list of fantasies that he wanted to fulfill. He wanted to do the mile high, which we never did. He also wanted to have sex on the freeway while driving, which we did.

In Jodi he found someone who was easily manipulated and controlled.

He wanted me to wear the boy`s underwear and have anal sex. I walked in and Travis was on the bed (EXPLETIVE DELETED). It was a picture of a little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the little boy dressed?

ARIAS: He was dressed in underwear. Who knew what other kinds of humiliating behaviors he was capable of? (inaudible) He kicked me in the ribs.

If I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done is make it as humane as possible.

There were things he did that made me feel like a million dollars. Travis had my heart.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Day four of Jodi Arias on the stand, and absolutely shocking allegation after shocking allegation. Jodi told the jury how she walked into Travis` bedroom and caught him, according to her, with photos of young boys wearing only their underwear and he was pleasuring himself.

We have to warn you, this testimony is graphic but it was said in open court.


ARIAS: I walked in and Travis was on the bed masturbating. And I got really embarrassed. It was a picture of a little boy -- 5-ish, 5, 6. I`m not a good judge of age. He was dressed in underwear, like briefs. I was frozen there for a minute and I just ran. I didn`t stay. I felt nauseated. I ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was so nauseated she said she threw up and then Jodi turned on the tears explaining how she didn`t want to believe what she saw -- was looking for any excuse to find a reason or explanation. Listen to this.

ARIAS: I kept thinking, what if he was hurt as a kid and it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him. I wanted to talk to him and find out what was wrong, like what was going on with him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has Jodi taken control of this courtroom and turned it into a one-woman show? Randy Zelin, criminal defense attorney, is she scoring a lot of points with this testimony?

RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not only is she scoring points, but she`s setting the stage for what should get her home. And that simply is establishing this pornography, pedophilia -- it`s not just to trash the victim. It`s to set up her defense, because domestic violence is about control and it`s about power.

And when the victim, when her boyfriend here crosses another social line and now is into pedophilia and she`s the only one that knows about it -- what does she have to do -- she has to up the ante with the control, up the ante with the power, up the ante with the violence, and that`s what led to her doing what she did. Remember, three bites at this apple. She can have the justifiable defense, so she walks home, she`s acquitted.

If she`s provoked --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we get your point. Tanya?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY: The problem with this card she`s playing, why it`s so offensive is that there is no evidence. This is their time to show what they`ve got. There`s no evidence that he was abusive consistently or he was trying to take power and control.

All I`m hearing is that she enjoyed freaky acts of sex. And you can`t all of a sudden now say I didn`t like it, so therefore I`m a battered woman and I`m going to take this very, very serious cause and use it to help me get home. There`s no evidence to support what she`s contending and her defense attorneys are contending and I take great offense.


ADAM SWICKLE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Her testimony is evidence. Like any other witness who takes the stand, her testimony is evidence. And I might remind everybody out there -- prosecutors, victim advocates -- these are all the same exact people who said that Casey Anthony would never walk. Casey Anthony`s lawyer was a fool. Casey Anthony had a ridiculous defense. This is exactly what`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We hear you. Let`s go to Gloria Allred.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Jane, you know, I think what she`s trying to do, what this is going to lead up to is a defense effort to say that there was a motive for Travis to attack her, and the motive would be that she knew the secret. She knew that he was into -- looking at child pornography.

Also I think she`ll try to weave a defense that somehow she was engaged in this sex, this kinky sex, wild sex, because she`s offering herself somehow as some kind of human sacrifice so that he wouldn`t act out on little boys. I think all of this is such a stretch I just don`t buy it. But we`ll have to see whether the jury does.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, your imagination, Gloria, is very possibly predicting what could come next.

Stacey Honowitz, the sky is the limit when you let a pathological liar take the stand and say anything she wants to a jury for days on end.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes. And the pathological liar can keep talking and talking and talking themselves right into a conviction. Lots of times prosecutors just like them to talk because they talk nonsense which is exactly what she`s doing. It`s getting -- she`s embellishing more and more and more.

Where were these stories when you got arrested? Why didn`t you tell anyone everything that was going on? Why did you continue to have sex with the man after he`s masturbated to young boys? It makes no sense.

It`s a jilted girl. He was leaving her and she premeditated and killed him. It`s really not that major of a story. She can talk all she wants. It makes no sense at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, actually she did offer an explanation for why she continued to have sex with him which we`ll play. It`s long but we`ll play that in a couple of seconds on the other side of the break. But Jason Lamb, weigh in.

JASON LAMB, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, the fact of the matter is, she needs this testimony to set up her experts. But it`s paper thin. She is all over the place with nothing to back it up. The problem is, when these experts take the stand to say that she`s a battered woman and she killed him as part of domestic violence, they are relying on her statements.

In the sealed hearing last week, the judge let this evidence in about Travis and the boys and the pictures because the experts are relying on it. The problem is: junk in, junk out. See what happens to the expert`s opinion next week when they get on the witness stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but garbage in, garbage out was used by Johnny Cochran in a case where he got somebody that basically the whole world concluded was guilty off; so garbage in, garbage out often works for the defense.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to a friend of Travis Alexander`s. He`s been very patient. Hang in there, Dave Hall. We`re getting to you on the other side.


JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: She`s the one that did the stabbing. She`s the one that slit his throat. She`s the one that shot him.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: In just a moment, we`re going to play you Jodi Arias` explanation why she continued to have sex with Travis Alexander even though she claims she saw him pleasuring himself to photos of young boys. We`re also going to talk to a friend of Travis` who wants to speak for his dead friend who can`t speak for himself anymore.



ARIAS: It`s hard to describe because it`s very embarrassing but he seemed very -- ashamed with himself and like he didn`t want to be that way. It was something he struggled with. When he had sex with women, he felt like a normal heterosexual man. And that`s what he wanted to be. And that`s what he said he was, and that`s what I believed him to be. And I -- and so when he had sex with me and felt more normal and it was preferable to his other deviant urges, I guess you could say.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias has an explanation for everything, and she has a combo platter of accusations against Travis Alexander, the victim, accusing him of being a pedophile, a rapist, having sex with a married woman, erotic humiliation -- the list goes on and on.

I want to go to Dave Hall, Travis` good friend. Again, your friend is not here to speak for himself because he was stabbed 29 times and his throat was slit and he was shot in the face. But I know the family of Travis Alexander was furious during this testimony. How do you feel emotionally, Dave?

DAVE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: You know, Jane, this absolutely infuriates me to watch this trial and to see Jodi up there on the stand saying these things. Somebody needs to send her a copy of that child`s fable book about "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and her attorneys need to read it clearly to her because, you know, her first version was she wasn`t there, and then when evidence came out, we know you were there.

Her second version was the ninjas attacked and then she even told the ninjas -- the only physical wound she had was that left ring finger got cut by the magical ninjas out there.

And then 12 hours after she butchers Travis, she shows up here in Utah to hang out with me and my friends and she has that same left ring finger all bandaged up. Then she tells the court today that Travis broke that finger. You know she`s got 10 fingers. I find it really suspicious that the one finger on her left hand keeps getting injured by everybody out there.

I think Travis did injure that finger, but I think she has her timeline wrong. I think it happened in the fight where she was trying to kill him. She pawned it off on the ninjas. She pawned it off on cutting herself at work, which is already on record that she told Ryan Burns that she did at Margaritaville which doesn`t even exist.

I mean, this lady is a pathological liar, and now she can only make up the worst thing you can possibly say about a man that he`s now into child porn and into pedophilia. There`s not too many things out there you can say that are worse than what she`s saying. She`s a habitual liar and it drives me nuts that people even call into the show and say she`s really scoring some points. I think she`s pretty accurate. Well heck, look at her track record.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Listen, I understand your frustration. But she has an ability to mesmerize some people, and I think we`ve got some video of a guy who visits her in court all the time and who also visits her behind bars -- Brian Carr. Let`s try to show that picture. We have a highlight of it. There he is.

And he was talking to me today, and we had expected him on our show. Now he`s AWOL. We call his cell phone and he doesn`t answer.

But Josey Crews, what did he tell you about his relationship with Jodi Arias and why he is on her side?

JOSEY CREWS: Well, Jane, he told me that he has been visiting her the past year, making a weekend trip every single weekend to talk to her to get to know her. And he says the person he`s gotten to know is very different than how the prosecution has painted her. He said Jodi is a very positive person. She`s very upbeat. She knows a lot is hanging over her head but she`s is very optimistic about the way the trial is going.

He says to even put "cold blooded killer" and "Jodi Arias" in the same exact category is absurd. He says he feels it`s important for him to talk about it. He was supposed to come on our show but didn`t. He wants people to know that she`s a good person. She made the right decision. And he also told me what was really striking, he said if Jodi hadn`t have killed Travis, he believes Travis would be the one on the stand for murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you raise an important point there. And I want to give Dave Hall and our other panelist reaction to that. Gloria Allred mentioned something -- I think it`s very significant -- that she`s going to turn the tables and use this alleged pedophilia that nobody can document because there`s no pedophilia on his computer as the basis for saying oh, I knew his dirty little secret and he had to get rid of me.

More on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel when your own mother was beating you?

ARIAS: I can describe it as betrayed and confused. I consider myself very open-minded spiritually.

I knew I wanted to have kids someday and I wanted to be married someday.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Pet o` the Day. Frida and Max from my friend Nova in Puerto Rico. You are beautiful. And Fannie, look at you. Tennis, anyone? And Sheamus. A bit of the Irish in you -- I can relate. All right. Ernie, you`re fabulous. We just love you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, this has been one of the wildest and most sexually sordid days that I`ve ever heard, ever, in any courtroom in my entire decades of being a journalist. I actually feel like I need to take a shower because it just saturates me.

Is it possible, Robi Ludwig, that this could boomerang on the defense because it`s so explicit and it`s almost like at a certain point the titillation factor goes away, and you`re just feeling like -- you`re feeling almost nauseous?

ROBI LUDWIG, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it could definitely backfire because the prosecutor could say, listen, if you didn`t like what was going on, if you didn`t like what this man was about, why didn`t you leave? Why did you constantly show up at his house?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait. I have to jump in there, Robi. Because the defense is asking that question over and over and she`s offering explanations. And as a psychotherapist is it not true that women do get sucked into very unhealthy relationships?

LUDWIG: It is true. That`s true.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse the phraseology, with men, where they are sexually degraded. I`m not saying this is a justification.

LUDWIG: I hear you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t get me wrong.

LUDWIG: I know. And women will say either I didn`t know I was abused or I thought I loved him enough that I could change the relationship. But having said that, not liking the way your boyfriend sexually treats you and whether you are getting abused and your life is in danger are two very different things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Gloria Allred said something brilliant tonight. She said -- and we`ll get her to elaborate on the other side of the break -- if they are going to take this pedophilia allegation and nobody could corroborate and use it as the basis for explaining not why she killed him but, oh, he wanted to kill her to get rid of the person who knew about his dirty little secret. Brilliant prophesying, Gloria -- we`ll get you to explain on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, your theory as to what the defense is trying to do?

ALLRED: The idea is that because she saw him look at child pornography -- this is their theory, again, we don`t know that`s the fact - - that somehow he feels more vulnerable. He gets angry. He commits domestic violence against her because he`s afraid that she will expose him and his secret. And because of his faith, because of his elevation in the Mormon Church, he`s afraid of being exposed. And that`s why he commits violence against her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, in essence, they`re turning the tables. They`re going to try to turn the tables on this whole thing?

ALLRED: That he will be more angry as a result of it. Look for that possibly to come out through expert testimony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a brilliant analysis, Gloria. We`ve got to know what`s coming, and you gave us a sneak peek.

Nancy next.