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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Gruesome Autopsy Photos Shown at Jodi Arias Trial

Aired April 25, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, prosecutor Juan Martinez rests his case. In the grand finale, he brings the jury back to the very reason they`ve been sitting through 54 days of Jodi Arias trial.

Jodi was shielding her eyes and weeping while Juan Martinez, the prosecutor, showed gruesome -- and I mean gruesome -- autopsy photos of victim Travis Alexander. Travis`s furious family sobbing, sobbing.

We have to warn you, these are extremely graphic photos of the victim, Travis Alexander`s dead body and his injuries. Today, the prosecutor put up photo after photo of Travis`s 29 stab wounds. His sliced neck and gunshot wounds to the head.

All this as the final rebuttal witness, medical examiner Dr. Kevin Horn, took the stand saying it would have been virtually impossible for Travis to move, let alone fight back if he was shot first as Jodi claims.


JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: He got down and grabbed my waist. But before he did that, he was lunging at me, the gun went off.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: If the gunshot were the first injury?

DR. KEVIN HORN, MEDICAL EXAMINER: It would have been very rapidly incapacitating.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It would not be immediately fatal, right?

HORN: Probably rapidly fatal. Maybe not immediately. But certainly incapacitating very quickly.

ARIAS: He lunged at me and we fell.

MARTINEZ: Would he then have been able to get up under any circumstances and walk away?


ARIAS: We were struggling and wrestling.

HORN: It requires coordination of most of the muscles to be able to stand and walk. And with a head injury, a brain injury, I don`t think he`s going to be able to do that.

ARIAS: He was getting on top of me.

HORN: The neurologic shock, incapacitation and unconsciousness.

MARTINEZ: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: You`re the one that did this, right?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, something we haven`t seen throughout the entire trial: bomb-sniffing dogs going through the courtroom. We`ll explain why and tell you about another juror off the trial.

We`re going to hear from you. I want your questions, comments and thoughts and analysis. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer on the scene in Arizona, Selin Darkalstanian. You were inside the court when these gruesome -- and I`ve seen them myself. They are the stuff of nightmares, shown in court. Look at the emotion. Take us there inside the courtroom. What was it like?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, it was an extremely dramatic day today in court. On one side of the courtroom, we had Travis`s sisters, who before court started, Juan Martinez came, pulled them aside and warned them that there would be these autopsy photos shown of their brother in court so that they could either exit the courtroom or look down and not see these photos. So we had that going on in one side of the courtroom.

And we`ve seen these Travis -- the Travis Alexander autopsy photos that came out today. It`s been a few months since we`ve seen these gruesome, gruesome photos of his bloody hand, his back with the stab wounds in the back. And we saw a close-up of his head with a gunshot through his forehead. And they were extremely graphic.

And you could tell the mood in the courtroom. Everybody was just looking at the photos. The jury was staring at the photos on the big screen in the courtroom.

And then, on the other side of the courtroom, we have Jodi`s grandmother. This is the second day she`s been in court since this trial has started. And Jodi`s grandma is sitting there, an elderly woman. She`s riding on -- in a wheelchair. And she`s looking at these gruesome photos of what her granddaughter did to this man. And she did not look away. She looked straight at the screen and looked at all the shots.

So it was extremely dramatic. On top of it all, at one point when the judge called the attorneys into chambers, we had a bomb-sniffing dog walk through the courtroom and into the chambers. We don`t exactly know why they were there. You can presume it was just a -- it was a routine check, or there was some sort of an issue.

But it was so dramatic, with Travis`s sisters on one end. We had Jodi`s grandmother on this side. And then we have a bomb-sniffing dog coming through the courtroom. It was very dramatic inside the courtroom behind the scenes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sounds like the tension is building as we get toward the ultimate grand finale, the closing arguments, the deliberation and the verdict.

Now, you mentioned that Jodi was looking at times at the autopsy photos. There have been other reports by people she looked and then she would hide her face and then look and hide her face at these gruesome autopsy photos.

But let`s go back to her July 2008 interrogation tape, where she was begging to see them. This was at the time that she pretended she wasn`t there and didn`t do this. Listen to this, and then we`ll debate it.


ARIAS: Is there any way I can see some of those photos?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you do with them if you could see them?

ARIAS: Just look at them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it that you`re trying to piece together?

ARIAS: I don`t know. There`s also a bit of morbid curiosity, I think.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The lying. Pretending she wasn`t there. Pretending ninjas -- that was the second day -- ninjas in masks killed him.

Now, compounded by the horror of these autopsy photos, is this game, set, match as the prosecution makes its points in the simplest way, with the most powerful way? Let`s debate it with our expert panel, two for the defense, two for the prosecution, beginning with Jordan Rose for the prosecution, who is right there in Arizona -- Jordan.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Jane, I think Jodi was crying today, because she knows that she is cooked. And the prosecutor was brilliant in putting these horrible photos out again. Just to remind the jury that this woman who was on the stand for 19 days is not your friend. She is a brutal criminal, and she did this awful, awful deed. I think those photos were very effective.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, you don`t have to say a word. The photos -- a picture tells a thousand words. That`s the old saying. In this case, nothing could be more true.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the reality is that, if you take Jodi Arias`s defense, her defense is it was an act of self-defense. She doesn`t know everything she did in what order. Let`s be honest. She doesn`t know what was stabbed first or exactly where she picked up the knife. She knows what she did and when she did it. And then, she flipped out.

Let`s be honest: nobody would remember. Nobody would remember exactly how she was being asked questions, so that this cross-examination of the medical examiner didn`t exactly hit it home. But it did enough to damage, because the probability isn`t enough that the medical examiner testified.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fred Tecce for the prosecution.

FRED TECCE, ATTORNEY: No, look, here`s the bottom line. The guy testified that it was he could do -- that Travis Alexander could do nothing with a bullet in his brain. That`s not wild conjecture; that`s common sense. And the prosecution now brings it home with these photos and also shows that, in order to believe Jodi, you have to ignore the evidence and you have to ignore your common sense, which is where you always want to be inclosing as a prosecutor.

WEINTRAUB: That`s not true.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not how he testified.

WEINTRAUB: ... bullet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not how he testified. He told three different stories.


ROSE: Over and over again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not what he said.

ROSE: Disregard science. And fact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, if you want to quote this guy, and let`s start using the word "probable." OK? His testimony today was that probably Travis was incapacitated. That was one of his three versions of this opinion.

The first one he gave to a detective under oath before, where he said Travis was not incapacitated. And then, at the very end, after he was questioned again on the redirect by the prosecutor, that`s finally where he said an absolute yes. This witness doesn`t have credibility.


ROSE: He was very clear. He said he couldn`t move after being -- being shot in the head like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are very lucky to have with us Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, Dr. Larry, and we are going to present the basic facts of this and then have him analyze it as a top forensic scientist.

Prosecutor Juan Martinez says Jodi stabbed Travis, then slit his throat, and finally shot him. Jodi claimed, "Oh, I shot him first, and then I blacked out and I went into a fog and don`t remember the rest of the killing."

Using Jodi`s scenario, Martinez, the prosecutor, asked the medical examiner, what would have happened if the shot had come first? Again, we have to warn you, these photos are very graphic.


MARTINEZ: The shot would have been the first thing that happened, and then it would have been a period of, let`s say, three seconds or maybe five seconds that went by. Would Mr. Alexander have been conscious to be able to raise his right hand in a defensive posture?

HORN: I don`t believe so, no.

MARTINEZ: If the gunshot were the first injury, would it be possible to have these type of injuries on his hands?

HORN: I don`t believe so.

MARTINEZ: Would he be able to get up after the gunshot wounds and after the two seconds and walk across the room five feet and stand at a sink and sort of hover over it?

HORN: I don`t believe so, no.

MARTINEZ: Was this gunshot to the head, was it in in your opinion, did it render the victim immediately unconscious?

HORN: Probably, yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Kobilinsky, they`re not just saying this out of thin air. There`s something called hemorrhaging. There was no hemorrhaging when Travis was shot in that area, but there was hemorrhaging when his throat was slit. Explain.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, that`s exactly right. Jane, the autopsy really sealed her fate. Jodi Arias`s story is totally inconsistent with the medicine and the science that we see in the autopsy.

First of all, as you rightfully pointed out, the autopsy describes the lack of hemorrhage as a result of the bullet traversing the frontal lobe headed from right to left, downward, front to back. No sign of hemorrhage means the heart was not pumping. So, clearly, I mean, he just wasn`t -- he wasn`t living at that point.

Secondly, and perhaps equally important, if you look at the defense wounds on his hands, you will see they are incised wounds. He was defending himself from a knife attack. And the thing is, if he was shot first, there`s no way he could lift his hand up, especially if he`s trying to ward off a knife attack. So it`s clear that the science doesn`t -- doesn`t agree with her story. It`s just an impossibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you explained it very well.

We`re going to take a short break. On the other side of the break, our correspondent, Beth Karas, is going to explain the photo that we can`t show you because it is so horribly graphic. Travis almost decapitated. Stay right there. And we`re taking your calls.


ARIAS (via phone): I introduced you to K-Y?

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): I have heard of it, obviously, but I`ve never used it.

ARIAS: You know, I had never used it until, and I always heard of it until one day -- I just thought because it`s so cliche and people make fun of it and, you know, but it`s great stuff.




MARTINEZ: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?

Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

How about when you slit his throat, were you crying then?

You`re the one that did this, right?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: To say that Jodi Arias slit Travis Alexander`s throat is really an understatement and a simplification. The photo is so graphic, we cannot show it to you, even though we`ve shown you a lot of the other graphic autopsy photos.

So let`s go straight out to "In Session`s" Beth Karas, who is there on the ground in Arizona.

Beth, explain it to us. Give us the picture because we can`t show this horrible picture.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, first of all, Jane, Juan Martinez put up a series of photos ending with the one you want me to explain right now. But the ones before it, some I have not seen before. They`re all introducing evidence. They`re all on the autopsy table.

And it`s his torso, his head and his torso. And you can see all the stab wounds on the front and then his back, all the stab wounds in a cluster on his back. And it`s all -- this whole series culminates with this last picture, which is about this much of him. So it`s just his head and his neck.

We had seen it once flashed up there when Lisa Andrews, the ex- girlfriend, was on the stand, and she was being cross-examined by Juan Martinez. And he wanted to know if Travis Alexander had ever done anything to her the one time she saw him angry that would deserve this and then he threw that up there. There were screams in the courtroom and a couple of Travis`s sisters ran out, because it came without any warning. Today there was warning; they didn`t look.

Anyway, he is slashed across his throat from here to here. And the way he`s positioned on the autopsy table, the wound is open so you can see inside him. It was a 3 1/2- to 4 1/2-inch deep wound. It severed his air way. It severed his carotid artery. If he wasn`t dead before, he was dead seconds after this wound was inflicted. It is believed it was inflicted at the end of the hallway at the threshold to his bedroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is truly horrific. I saw the photo, and it made me gasp. And it really tells a story like no other photo. There is nothing about that photo that says self-defense.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Bruce, Florida, your question or thought. Bruce, Florida.

CALLER: Hey, Jane. I enjoy your show and all your angles that you do, and I have a couple of points to make.


CALLER: Yesterday, I almost got on. When they were in the closet, did anybody ever see if there was fingerprints from Jodi on the shelf where she claimed to have grabbed with her one hand to try to get the gun? And the receipts in Wal-Mart, besides the gas can, I`ll bet if you check that SKU, that`s probably bleach to color her hair. And I want to get your opinion on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, interesting. Well, I think that, Beth, we know she cleaned his house. So she was there. Even if there were fingerprints there, that could be explained away. But tell us about the bleach. Because, of course, the prosecution believes that she dyed her hair from blonde to brunette so that she wouldn`t be spotted when she went into Arizona to kill Travis Alexander.

She stopped on her killer road trip and got her manicure and pedi. And we were all talking about, a mani-pedi doesn`t last three hours. Is there evidence, indeed, that she dyed her hair when she was supposedly getting a mani-pedi?

KARAS: Well, we saw three photographs of her taken off of her Helio phone which were dated June 3, the day before she killed Travis Alexander, and they were about an hour and an hour and a half before she went to Wal- Mart. And yes, just before she bought the gas can. She took pictures, and her hair was dark.

They don`t think -- or they don`t know that she actually bought some hair dye at Wal-Mart. If they knew it, we would have heard it. But this rebuts Jodi Arias, because she testified that she changed her hair color from platinum blonde to brown, from that in May. And two photographs were introduced of her from May. One of them was May 10, the day of the phone sex recording, by the way. So it was a photo of Jodi with her dog and Jodi with her sister. Well, what Juan Martinez did was take those photos and compare them to the three photos taken off her Helio phone when her hair is darker than a platinum blonde in May. She was much darker in June.

So there`s definitely a difference in hair color. She was not as dark in May as she was June 4.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Beth, we`ve put up that photo that was taken on June 3 during the killer road trip before she got to Travis Alexander`s house. And there you see her very dark hair.

She had argued that she kind of had highlights in her hair and that it wasn`t necessarily from platinum blonde to dark, that it was sort of a mixture. But you see there, that is brunette. There`s no mistaking it. That is a day before she kills Travis Alexander. And here is the hair color she had in the weeks and the months prior to that.

So this is really the nuts and bolts of this case. We`ve got so much more for you on the other side: more forensic analysis, more calls, more testimony as we steer towards judgment day. Stay right there.


ALEXANDER (via phone): If you need to handle me, you`ll handle me. If you need to be handled, you`ll be handled.

ARIAS: I know. And I know you love being handled, but if I had to put one over the other, I like being handled.




ARIAS: He wanted to drive up to the home. He wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and then get back in the car and drive away without saying anything.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sometimes, there are little things that just strike you. Well, one of our top people on our show, Rob Beck (ph), noticed that this photo was taken during the killer road trip and said very simply, "Who, driving along, pulls along the side of the road and takes a picture of themselves, smiling?" I mean, it`s a little common sense thing that let`s quickly debate it.

Come on, Jayne Weintraub. You`ve got to hand us that one.

WEINTRAUB: I can`t hand you any of this, Jane. You know, I try murder cases all the time. Guess (ph) cases. The real issue today was this medical examiner and the cop. And the cop clearly, clearly asked the medical examiner, right after the autopsy, "Did the gunshot wound come first?" And the medical examiner clearly said yes.

And it surprises me -- it surprises me that Juan Martinez is going to go down this path, because it`s against what he wants for the death penalty. However, the cop -- the cop admitted it, and the medical examiner changed his testimony, and he`s waffling since.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to continue to debate that. But Fred Tecce, I want to ask you about this hair color. I mean, really, who, first of all, gets a mani-pedi on a road trip by themselves? That`s a question for ladies. But again, who stops and takes a picture of themselves, a tight shot. Not "oh, I`m here in beautiful Monterey," "I`m here in beautiful wherever," Pasadena. No, a tight shot of my own face, all right, while I`m on a road trip? Doesn`t that seem a little contrived so...

WEINTRAUB: No, Jane, no. No, you can go on Facebook and see a million pictures of 25-year-olds posting very similar pictures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe she texted it to Travis, saying she`s on her way.


TECCE: ... slashing some guy 25 times, OK. Yes, there`s a lot of pictures like that on Facebook. And look, I personally never stop and get a mani-pedi when I`m by myself on the road, so I can`t speak to that one way or the other. But I can tell you that it all looks very contrived, from the change in the hair color to every little thing that she`s done.

And look, these guys are doing a good job...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s contrived if you want it to be contrived.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you can simply tell she`s going to meet this guy.

WEINTRAUB: Young women change the color of their hair. I think it went back to her natural color anyway.

TECCE: They do, but not two days before they slash someone to pieces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two days before they spend the entire day having sex.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jordan Rose, weigh in.

ROSE: I just think this woman is such a narcissist. Who pulls over and takes a picture on vacation of yourself? It doesn`t make any sense. She`s...

WEINTRAUB: So many people do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please. Anybody under 25 with an iPhone.

ROSE: And to go stop and -- no, no, no. They do not. They take pictures of, "Hey, I`m driving past the Grand Canyon..."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. Are you not on Facebook?

ROSE: "Check this out."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what? We`ve got so much to cover...

ROSE: She`s so into herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she`s definitely into herself.

Selin Darkalstanian, quickly, tell us about the bomb-sniffing dogs that swept through the courtroom today. We don`t have video or photos of them for security reasons, but that was quite a shocker.

DARKALSTANIAN: That was a shocker. That -- the bomb-sniffing dogs were brought through the courtroom and taken in the back through, we`re guessing, through the jury room and the chambers. Was this a routine check? Did something happen? We don`t know the reason behind the bomb- sniffing dogs

But the other news that came out of court today is that Juror No. 8 was dismissed. And what`s shocking about that, Jane, Juror No. 8 is the one, he sits in the front. He takes a lot of notes. He asks a lot of questions on paper and puts them in the jury box. He`s always dressed in a button-down, pants, looks very professional, very corporate. And he`s the last one that I would think would be kicked off the jury or dismissed or whatever happened. But he`s the one that was dismissed, Juror No. 8.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now we`ve got three, three dismissed. We had Two-Tone. We had the male who was described as ethnic. His ethnicity was Hispanic. He was -- he left the jury, I think he said illness. And now number three, Juror No. 8, gone.

On the other side, we have more testimony, and we`re going to dive deep into the order of the killing and why it`s so crucial with Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, noted forensic scientist. Stay right there.


ARIAS: You could tell when Travis was -- no matter what direction you were looking at, you could tell when Travis showed up, because the laughter got lighter, and the conversations that happened, and just the whole energy of the room changed. And you know, whenever someone like that, it was almost like the world was a better place now he was there, you know.




JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jodi had to make a choice. She would either live or she would die.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: After the gunshot wound and after the two seconds, walk approximately five feet and stand at a sink and sort of hover over it, would he be able to do that?

DR. KEVIN HORN, MEDICAL EXAMINDER: I don`t believe so, no.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: It goes in three and a half inches --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- into Travis Alexander`s chest?


JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: You`re bad. You make me feel so dirty.

MARTINEZ: It was her. She`s the person who actually did this.

So it appears then that your memory becomes faulty immediately upon you shooting him?

ARIAS: Yes. Things gets very foggy from there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias after saying she wasn`t there, and then saying two ninjas killed Travis, her final story is that oh the gun went off and I shot him and killed him in self-defense because he came at me like a linebacker because I dropped his camera.

Well, Dr. Kevin Horn (ph) the medical examiner testified if Travis was shot first as Jodi claims, he would have been completely incapacitated. He was shot above the right eyebrow. That`s a critical brain injury.

Listen to defense attorney Jennifer Wilmott go after Dr. Horn trying to pick apart his credibility, accusing him of having changed his story and then we`ll debate it. Check it out.


WILLMOTT: You`re aware that Detective Flores said that you told him the bullet wound was not immediately incapacitating.

HORN: I don`t recall that, no.

WILLMOTT: You said once before in this case, "I don`t think it would have immediately incapacitated him or killed him but it would be a serious injury."

HORN: I mean I corrected my own misstatement.

WILLMOTT: So when you told this jury that it was not immediately incapacitating, that was a mistake on your part?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now this reminds me of, well, the O.J. Simpson case, right, where they try to say "garbage in, garbage out". People are human. Occasionally in a case that`s gone on since 2008, somebody is going to say one thing and then correct themselves.

But the defense here is turning this into a huge issue. Should it be a huge issue or is his final conclusion, what we should go with. I mean he has said, oh, I misspoke. I corrected myself -- Jayne Weintraub.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. That`s exactly right. He should have said "I misspoke if I said that." But he didn`t say that Jane, did he? He was defensive and he said, "Oh, I don`t remember." He didn`t say "No, I didn`t say that." He said "I didn`t remember" because that is the way that it can`t be cross examined.

So what really is important here is what the detective remembers. And Martinez didn`t put the detective back on the stand, no. Why? Because the detective who is a homicide guy and needs to know what happened in that autopsy calls the ME right after -- I have been in those autopsies, I have tried over 20 murder cases with a death penalty as a prosecutor and a defense lawyer.

Believe me, the cops are right there and the medical examiner doesn`t make a mistake. He tells them right then and there (inaudible)


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fred Tecce -- I mean one word, one sentence and we are talking about an investigation that has started in June of 2008 and they are going to try to hinge their case on him saying something that he then corrected?

WEINTRAUB: Jane this is the whole death thing. This is it right here.


FRED TECCE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know what, unfortunately --

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not a correction, he`s changing his opinion.


SILBER: Changing the diagnosis. He`s changing his opinion.

TECCE: You know what; I`m going to talk while you are interrupting. You`ve got to let me finish my point. Ok.


TECCE: Unfortunately for Jodi Arias, Jayne doesn`t represent him. What this guy should have done though on direct examination is he should have come right out front and said I told the police detective something else, I later found out that wasn`t true because you know what; I tell my witnesses all the time, when you have to eat it, you don`t nibble.

At the end of the day, it`s much ado about nothing. The defense lawyers want to make a big deal out of it, I don`t blame them. But ultimately his opinion wasn`t that the guy died from being dropped in the head with a safe. His opinion was that the bullet to his head would made defensive wounds virtually impossible. That`s common sense.

WEINTRAUB: Jane, I have to say something.

SILBER: Yes, but there`s not this other evidence in the case.

WEINTRAUB: In the death penalty phase -- in the death phase Juan Martinez now is buying that he`s incapacitated and he can`t even breathe or think. That means it`s not heinous, atrocious and cruel. That means it`s not an aggravator for the death penalty. So I don`t know what Juan Martinez was thinking.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, on the stand today, the medical examiner who performed Travis Alexander`s autopsy, ok, he deconstructed Jodi Arias` story. Jodi claims she accidentally shot Travis in the face first. "The gun just went off because he came at me like a linebacker because I had dropped his camera."

And then he continued to attack her even after he was shot. Well, the medical examiner said it couldn`t have happened that way. Listen to this and then we`ll talk about it with our own forensic scientist.


MARTINEZ: If the gunshot was the first wound --

HORN: It would have injured the right frontal lobe of his brain and would have been very rapidly incapacitated. He may have been able to take a step or two, probably would have collapsed from lost consciousness within seconds.

M2: With rapid blood loss you are going to pass out.

MARTINEZ: Would it be possible to have these type of injuries on his hand?

HORN: I don`t believe so. He would have to get his hands up and try to grab the knife and with a head wound, I don`t think that`s possible.

MARTINEZ: You termed these defensive wounds previously, correct?

HORN: Yes.

M2: Of the series of puncture wounds, nine in total --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you explain why you think Travis was still alive when his throat was cut?

HORN: Because of the large amount of hemorrhage in the soft tissue around the throat wound, that requires a beating heart.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s possible that he experienced tremendous pain for 30 seconds to a minute?

M2: it`s possible.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, now I talked to this forensic scientist at John Jay College about these wounds. And he really brought home how deep these wounds were. He said it was very significant, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky that Travis Alexander was stabbed one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine times in the back. That is not defensive -- that is not self-defense to stab somebody nine times in the back.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: This is obviously overkill. It`s a sign of intense rage. If you should know, you mentioned O.J. Simpson. You probably remember Nicole Brown, her throat was slit, also. Her head almost came off of her body. In fact in this particular case, Travis` throat was slit and the right jugular and carotid were severed. That was a fatal blow. He would have died from that very, very quickly.

The other lethal blow was the stab wound entering the torso around the sternum that penetrated what is known as the superior vena cava, the main vein that brings blood back from the top of the head back to the heart. That would have created a hemorrhage that would have killed him.

And finally, the shot to the head was a fatal trauma. So there were three kinds of fatal trauma to this body. Now, the sequence of events, in my mind is fairly clear. There`s no way the gunshot could have been first. It had to have been last.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s talk about the sequence of events. Because frankly, one thing that concerns me about the prosecution`s case is that we`ve spent so much time focusing on Jodi`s version of events, that I wonder if it`s really clear what the prosecutor said is the version of that.

Beth Karas, correspondent, "In Session" there in Arizona, can you give us a quick run down on the sequence that the prosecutor said?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes, according to the state, Jodi Arias got him, Travis Alexander in a vulnerable position, naked, wet and sitting in the shower and then she started to stab him and that one of the first wounds was fatal, but not immediately fatal wound to the heart. Their struggle began, he tried to grab the knife. That`s how he got the wounds to his hand.

And then he, at one point, is standing over the sink and she`s stabbing him in the back. He is smearing blood from his hands, he is dripping blood and he is probably coughing blood because he`s injured and he`s filling up with blood. And then he`s trying to get away from her. So he`s staggering down the hall, probably gets down on his hands and knees and is crawling toward the end because some of the blood smears on the wall are kind of low and the blood spatters are low in the bathroom, too. He`s down for a lot of it except when he stood at the sink.

Then she does the coup de grace which is the slash him across the throat at the threshold to his bedroom. He`s probably on all fours. And then she turns him around, turns him over, as well as around and dragged him back to the shower, shooting him in the head in the bathroom. Not sure why, just to make sure he`s dead, maybe? Make it look like there were two people, maybe. And then puts him in the shower and washes him off.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the cleaning up of the crime scene which she claims was done in a fog -- another claim that a lot of people are not buying whatsoever.

A short break -- we`re going to be back with more. This is the heart of the case. I mean really we are getting down to the nitty-gritty here. Stay right there.


ARIAS: When he (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and throws candy my way and walked away without a word, it kind of feels like I was a prostitute.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are all over the Jodi Arias trial as it races toward its dramatic conclusion. But we are also bringing you coverage next week of the George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin case. This is the case that rocked the country. Did George Zimmerman murder Trayvon Martin or did he kill him as he claims in self-defense.

More on the Arias trial right on the other side.



MARTINEZ: If the bullet wound was the first wound that was received by Mr. Alexander, would it have been immediately incapacitating?

HORN: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And why would it have been incapacitating?

HORN: Because of brain injury.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the family`s in the courtroom. Such a tense and awkward scene -- you have the family of Travis Alexander, his sisters, his brother. You also have the family of Jodi Arias and they are each wearing insignias.

Selin Darkalstanian, you are there, our senior producer in court. Tell us about these insignias, the ribbons each family is wearing.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Travis Alexander`s side of the family, they wear these navy blue ribbons in honor of Travis. Now, I asked them why navy blue, is this their favorite color? I haven`t gotten an answer as to why that color. But they wear navy blue ribbons and they also passed out these navy blue ribbons to the public gallery. Because remember the public can`t sit in support of Travis on the prosecution side because that side of the courtroom is just designated for the family and the media.

So even if you support Travis and you are in court, you have to sit on the defense side if you`re in public. So they pass out the ribbons to show that these people are in support of their brother.

And then the defense side, we saw the grandmother coming in yesterday, first in court being wheeled in a wheelchair and she had a purple ribbon on her. And the purple ribbon is for domestic violence in support of domestic violence.

So, one side has a navy blue ribbon and the other side is wearing the purple ribbons in court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I found it fascinating because I believe I have covered previous trials where judges have ruled that you cannot wear any kind of insignia whatsoever; that there is no, I believe, it goes back to Michael Jackson`s child molestation trial where people were coming in -- fans and they had all sorts of stuff. And the judge said nobody is wearing anything.

So, let me throw that to prosecutor Fred Tecce. What are your thoughts on that?

TECCE: You know what, Jane? I`ll tell you what, I would be concerned about that because what you don`t want is you don`t want the jury to feel like they`re being bullied or intimidate d by one side of the other. You want them to make a decision based upon the facts as they find in the law as the judges instructed to them.

So as a prosecutor, you know, you always want to show support for the victim. I think that`s a critical, critical thing. But at the end of the day, I want a clean trial where a conviction is going to get upheld on appeal and I don`t want any ancillary issues. So why do it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does anybody in our panel disagree?

SILBER: I think he said it absolutely correctly. You know, when you have a trial, you want everything to go smoothly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who said that?

SILBER: Brian Silber over here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So everybody agrees that --

SILBER: You want everything to be smooth so it doesn`t come back. You know, when you start doing things that are funky and cause problems, you can go back on appeal and lose your conviction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose, give us your thoughts.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I agree. And now we have three jurors who have been dismissed. And that plays into the idea that the defense has, there`s some taint to the jury and there`s some reason that they might be able to appeal. I don`t understand why we would allow the ribbons. It doesn`t seem to make much sense for the prosecution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A short break. We have Elaine from Illinois waiting very patiently. Elaine, hang in there, we`ll try to get to you right on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He liked to ruin every day of mine. I`m tired of it. You texting about something time sensitive is just a way to reel me back into the bull crap. Otherwise you would have just told.

I don`t ever want to get another freaking text from you again or a call unless it`s an apology and a thank you for constantly having to take on your never ceasing problems -- not one freaking more.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day.

Her name was Lola, she was a show dog. And she belongs to Katie Rogers, our fabulous producer. Gizmo -- whoa, stunning, like a fashion plate. And Lucy, she is just very elegant. She`s sticking her tongue out at us. Ruby Lou, you rock, Ruby Lou. We love you.


JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORENSIC EXPERT: Now, the defense at one point in time has contended that that cluster of non-shots to the back with the knife were actually inflicted upon him as he was moving down the hallway. The only way that that could possibly be happening is if he was giving her a piggy back ride.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating stuff, let`s go out to Elaine in Illinois, your patience thank you for it -- your question or thought, Elaine.

ELAINE, ILLINOIS (via telephone): Hi, Jane, I love you to death. And once again, congratulations on your sobriety.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, 18 years.

ELAINE: Yes, my point is from the very beginning I felt this, that she went there -- ok, she knew that he wanted to take someone out, but she was going to give him one last shot to maybe say ok, yes, I`ll take you. But she went there pretty sure that he was still going to not take her.

And when she had to take pictures of him, because he was getting more fit for this trip, you know, he looked a lot slimmer in the pictures. And she just went there and just -- when he finally said no again, she just said well then you`re not going either. And this is --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elaine, I think that you make a very good point. The Cancun trip, he never got to go on it because he was dead. It was supposedly the day after his body was discovered.

Beth Karas, here is what is really fascinating. A lot of people say well, if she wanted to kill him why didn`t she just kill him when she arrived? Why did she spend the night? Have sex with him and take photos of him? Well, I was reading through some of the notes and it says here, she acknowledged there was somebody else home when she arrived. Not all of his roommates, but somebody else. Well, maybe that`s why she didn`t kill him right away because there was somebody else home.

KARAS: Correct, that may very well be the case. And I have looked at the police reports, there were two roommates, Enrique Cortez and Zach Billings. Zach Billings told the police this is in the day after he was discovered -- the body was discovered that he was out in the morning. He came home at about 3:00, and he was home for about an hour. And now, they were supposedly having sex down in the office a little after 4:00, and then she is killing him about 5:30.

Enrique Cortez was out during the day, got home between 6 and 6:30. Now the accidental photo, when Travis is dead on the floor and her leg is in the foreground, that is at 5:32. So she had to get out of there very quickly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and that was the window for the killing.

All right, a short break, we`re learning a lot today. Stay right there. More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are barreling towards a dramatic, crescendo conclusion of this trial. And we`re going to find out whether Jodi Arias lives or dies.

And meantime tomorrow, right here on this show, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, we`re going to bring you a very, very special guest. Travis` very close friend, Josh Denny, joins me tomorrow night 7:00 p.m. Eastern to talk about this trial, Jodi and his friend, Travis. And he is going to share with us new, never before seen photos of Travis Alexander as well as video.

As we get to really know this man who is not here to speak for himself anymore, prosecutor Juan Martinez speaking for him and his devastated family left behind. So join us tomorrow.

And stay right there, because the one and only Nancy Grace is up next.