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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Shocking New Search Warrants in Hot Car Death; Did Dad Abuse Son Found in Basement?
Aired June 30, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE; But to show that she was there, to show that the print, the shoe print, the thumbprint, were from her, we would have not -- we
wouldn`t have had a case.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, huge breaking news in the case of that little Georgia toddler, Cooper Harris, who cops say was left to die a
torturous death in a hot car by his own dad. New search warrants just released -- and there`s a ton; I`ve got them right here -- they reveal
shocking new details. This mystery is just getting a lot stranger.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks so much for joining me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left him in the back of his SUV while he went to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His 22-month-old son was dead probably long before he tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opened the back door, pulled his child out, laid him on the concrete, tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving him in the hot SUV for seven long hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like it`s a rush to judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is impossible for this to have been intentional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`ll be entering a plea of not guilty at this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thirty-three-year-old web designer Justin Ross Harris is charged with murdering his own 22-month-old son by leaving him trapped
inside a sweltering SUV on a very hot day. The dad calls it an accident, but in a shocking twist, cops in these documents say the child`s father and
mother both admit researching on the Internet about children dying in hot cars. Now, he says he was fearful of it happening and that`s why he
researched. Then, it did happen on his watch? Wouldn`t he be more alert if he had just researched that recently?
And in brand-new information, cops say the wife of this accused murderer, the mother of the toddler, says she also searched the Internet about in-car
deaths and how it occurs. That`s odd. Could she be covering for her husband?
The boy`s father told cops he took Cooper to breakfast and then drove about five minutes from the restaurant to work and during that short drive, he
forgot that he had the boy strapped in his rear-facing child car seat, and then dad went into the office.
Cops say he was caught on camera at lunchtime coming out to the SUV, opening the driver`s side door, but he claims he still didn`t see or
remember the precious toddler trapped inside.
Cops say his story seems to be a big lie. They charged him with murder and second-degree child cruelty.
But Harris`s wife, Leanna, is sticking by her man. Not only did she tell cops she did incriminating Google searches, but at the funeral this past
weekend, she told the crowded room she is not angry at her husband at all, adding, he`s a great father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEANNA HARRIS, MOTHER OF COOPER UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ross is a wonderful daddy and leader for our household. Cooper meant the world to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
We have a fantastic expert Lion`s Den panel ready to debate this. But first, I want to go out to CNN`s Nick Valencia. Nick, you were inside the
church during this extraordinary funeral where the dad calls from behind bars on the phone and they put him on speakerphone somehow and then the mom
also speaks. Tell us what it was like in there and what happened.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Jane, it`s great to be on with you tonight. It was an overall extraordinary experience. It
certainly was out of the ordinary. It wasn`t about the 22-month-old Cooper Harris. This should have been about that little boy, this baby. But it
was as much about him as it was about the suspicion surrounding his death.
Leanna Harris, the mother of Cooper Harris, felt compelled to get up there in front of the crowd, a near-capacity crowd, more than 300 people, and she
felt that she needed to defend herself as to why she was being able to get up there in front of the crowd and not turn into a ball of tears and sod
and dirt, as she says.
She -- the most extraordinary moment throughout all of this, Jane, was that phone call. As the service started, the pastor from Marietta, Georgia,
that was leading the service said, if you see Leanna Harris on the phone, it`s because Justine Ross Harris -- Ross, as he`s known to his friends, was
going to call in. He called in about 15 minutes into the service as his father, the grandfather of that little baby was delivering a eulogy for
Cooper Harris, and you could hear the sob over the phone of Ross Harris from that Georgia jail. It was an incredible moment.
The reaction of those in attendance was also of surprise. The reaction was also emotional by those folks in the crowd. It was unexpected.
The grandparents were certainly the most emotional of everyone in attendance. The mother, Leanna Harris, she was dressed in a black dress
with a tiny black -- I`m sorry, red belt around that red dress -- she looked put together is what I`m trying to say, Jane. She looked put
together. She was crying intermittently. But it was really the grandparents that were suffering the most throughout all of that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nick, I want to -- what you have to say is so fascinating. So I want to break it down and also bring in our expert panel. So please
don`t go anywhere, because we want to get back to you.
But OK, Justin Ross Harris, called Ross by his friends and family, was in jail. He couldn`t go to his son`s funeral. He`s being held without bond.
But he calls in, OK, and he calls his wife`s cell phone, as you just heard, and here`s a producer reading what he said when he was put on speaker.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for everything you`ve done for my boy. Good life. No words to say. Just horrible. I`m just sorry I can`t be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, he got a standing ovation. But to me, the audacity, the gall it takes to call in to the funeral. If
it was an accident, it was on his watch, he`s responsible. If it`s murder, it`s even worse.
I mean, you know, I hate to say this, but there are people who have killed who have gone to memorial services for the people they`ve killed. Jodi
Arias showed up at Travis Alexander`s memorial. What do you make of this behavior on the part of this dad?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Let`s just call it page one of the defense strategy, OK? That`s what I`m going with for now. It is so
galling to me.
And I mean, shame on the people who clapped for this guy. What were they thinking? What pill were they taking? Are you kidding me?
I have shades of JonBenet Ramsey all over this story, momma sticking up for papa. I mean, I am so disgusted by the way these two are sticking together
with this fake story, I don`t know where to begin with my disgust. By taking it to a church?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronica Waters, you`re in Atlanta; you have the mood of this entire area. There`s so many questions. And then he calls in from
behind bars, where he`s being held without bond, and starts talking -- making the funeral about him, pulling focus away from the child who he left
in a car to die a horrible, torturous death, to bake to death. Am I crazy, or is that wildly inappropriate?
VERONICA WATERS, REPORTER, WSB RADIO: Well, I have to say that I agree that this is sort of a way that the family is showing a united front. Ross
and Leanna Harris, you could say Leanna Harris is Tammy Wynette today. She`s standing by her man.
And something that I thought was very unusual, one of the things that we`re told she said at the funeral was that she`s not -- absolutely not upset
with her husband. That is pretty remarkable, even if it was a mistake on the part of Ross Harris, that she could say, "I`m not upset" after this.
It`s not unusual that he would be able to make a phone call. They have these phones available to the inmates in the pods at the Cobb County jail.
So when he was out of his cell, he could have gone to one of those common areas and made the call inside there and said, "Listen, I loved my son.
This is nothing that I would ever do on purpose."
I mean, literally, you`d have to think that these are two of the most sadistic people to do this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in here. Does anybody think it`s appropriate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s appropriate, Jane. I have a 4-1/2- year-old kid. I know where my son is at every second. When I get out of my car, I`m holding him by the hand, leading him out. There`s no way you
leave an infant in a car, particularly if you claim...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all you`re wrong -- first of all you`re wrong about that, because unfortunately, something like 40 people did it
last year. What I was asking...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shouldn`t happen! Shouldn`t happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... do you think it`s appropriate for a guy behind bars...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care if 40 people did it. Shouldn`t happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think it`s appropriate for a man who is charged with murder of his son to call his son`s funeral and be put on
speakerphone?
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s still his son at the end of the day, Jane. It`s still his son.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please. One at a time. Evangeline, go ahead.
E. GOMEZ: Thank you, Jane. At the end of the day, again, he is not guilty until proven innocent. He`s innocent until proven guilty here. But you
know what`s really...
MURPHY: Only in a court of law.
E. GOMEZ: Jane, you know what`s really interesting here are the comments that the mother made. Which I was very struck by, because she said this
child turned their world upside down and then went onto the numerous diaper changes, staying up late, which to me is a little odd and bizarre. And
allegedly she said -- allegedly she said...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to play the entire speech for you. And we`re going to do it in bits so we can analyze it.
During the funeral, Harris` wife publicly stood up for him, saying he`s a great dad, talking about possibly having other kids with him, and saying
she doesn`t blame him for little Cooper`s death. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely not. It has never crossed my mind. Ross is and was and will be, if we have more children, a
wonderful father. Ross is a wonderful daddy and leader for our household. Cooper meant the world to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judy Ho, forensic psychologist, when I heard "Ross is the leader of our household," I thought, well, OK, he`s the leader. He says,
"I did nothing wrong." She`s the follower. She says, "OK, you said you did nothing wrong, then you did nothing wrong."
JUDY HO, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right, Jane. And you know what? This is the problem with this whole thing.
Fathers who commit -- who kill their children, there is a very defining characteristic that we know from all of the history of fathers who kill
their children. And that is, it is absolutely planned out.
And the rationale for fathers usually killing their children is because they feel overwhelmed and out of control with their lives.
Now what -- the tape that you just played of the woman supporting him, well, she called him the leader of the household. He may have felt
overwhelmed by that responsibility, not been ready for it. And now she`s making the situation worse, because she doesn`t want to lose both her son
and her man in one day. And...
E. GOMEZ: Or she could be cooperating with the police. But we don`t know that at this point.
MURPHY: No, actually...
E. GOMEZ: Or she may be cooperating -- we don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go back -- I want to go back to Nick Valencia, who knows more about this case than anybody. He`s been studying it.
Here`s the thing. They`re going to have a probable cause hearing later this week. And we`re all over it right here on this show. There`s got to
be, in my opinion, something more. There`s got to be something bigger. Because cops have said things like, "What I know about this case shocks my
conscience." You know, "this was not simple negligence."
Now, these Internet searches alone, certainly while odd and perhaps sinister that the dad is researching recently how long does it take a child
to die in a hot car, I don`t know that they can base their entire case on that. And we`re going to discuss that in a second.
But do you think -- do you get any hints that they`ve got some big, big, big, big shocker that they`re going to unleash at this probable cause
hearing?
VALENCIA: Jane, for as many pages as were released in those search warrants, there was very little detail given. We don`t know the context of
those statements either: when those statements were made, how they came about. And the cops must have something else in order to level that murder
charge.
I want to get back to the atmosphere in that funeral. It was evident to everyone in that crowd, especially the reporters, that Leanna Harris and
those that were up at that podium, were speaking beyond those in attendance. They were aware of the controversy surrounding their child`s
death. That`s what made it, as the reporters were talking amongst ourselves, that`s what made the scene all the more bizarre.
It was a chilling experience to see that tiny little red casket, red being the favorite color of Cooper Harris, that tiny little red casket placed in
front of hundreds. That is something that was a very emotional experience for everyone in the crowd, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this, Nick, and excellent reporting. I want to stress that cops do not consider this mom a suspect. We`re going
to discuss why she may have said to the authorities that she researched words to the effect of how children die, how long it takes children to die
in a hot car.
Remember, he`s the leader of the household and he says, "I did nothing wrong." And she is right on board with what he says, because she`s the one
who says he`s the leader of the household.
We`ve got calls lining up. We`ve got so much coming in on Facebook. Don`t forget to check out my Facebook page, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Facebook is --
do me a favor: Like it while you`re there. That would be very nice. I would like that. so go to Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook. We`ve got behind-
the-scenes pictures, content, exclusive stuff.
And we`re just getting started on this. Join our debate, join our conversation. Why do you think this child died? What`s behind it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, Leanna Harris has not been arrested or charged. She spoke for the first time at her son`s funeral Saturday,
telling mourners that she wasn`t angry with Ross and he was a great father and leader for their family and will be a great dad for their future
children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe we`ll have another family. Well, it takes the person that`s really not all there to do something that nasty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day after she defended her husband against people who called him a murderer, CNN has learned Leanna Harris may have to defend her
own actions. In search warrants released this weekend, police said, quote, "Leanna Harris, the child`s mother, was also questioned regarding the
incident and made similar statements regarding researching in-car deaths and how it occurs."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Little Cooper died in a hot car, a terrible death. Dad, behind bars without bond, calls in to the baby`s funeral. He speaks, and
his wife, the boy`s mother, speaks. Listen to precisely what they had to say, as read by producers. And then we`re going to debate it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for everything you`ve done for my boy. Good life. No words to say. Just horrible. I`m just sorry I can`t be there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, Ross, I love you, and I`m doing this for you, OK? Two years ago when we welcomed a six-pound, eight-ounce
perfect baby into the world, this never crossed my mind. He was perfect, and he is perfect.
He changed mine and Ross` life. I`ve talked to you about the magnitude in which he changed it. As children do, he turned our lives upside-down. I
wouldn`t trade it for the world.
Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely not. It has never crossed my mind. Ross is and was and will be, if we have more children, a wonderful father. Ross
is a wonderful daddy and leader for our household. Cooper meant the world to him.
Some of you might wonder how I`m even standing here today. I wonder that myself, and I asked myself that question over and over the last week. I
should be crumpled into a heap of snot and tears...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I`ve got to say, we`re getting tons, tons of comments on Facebook.
Katherine (ph) says, "If they both Googled kids dying in hot cars, that makes it even stranger that he would forget the boy in that car." Yes,
makes sense.
Stephanie says, "I can`t believe they used his funeral as a platform for the dad. It never should have been the focus."
Brittany (ph), all she says is "#CaseyAnthony." All right.
Nancy says, "If my husband ever did anything like this, I would hope the cops would catch him before I did."
Dawn, "Mom wouldn`t bring him back into this broken world but makes a statement referring to having more kids with that hubby. What?"
Let`s go to Barry, California. What do you got to say, Barry?
CALLER: Well, I`m curious, do you know whether or not the coroner`s running chemical tests on the child?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, my understanding, sir, is that they had a preliminary autopsy finding which the authorities released of hyperthermia,
which is when the body overheats. And they said the manner was homicide. But those were preliminary results, and they`re indeed waiting for the
toxicology reportto come back before making it absolutely official. And it`s a very good question. Did this child have anything in his system? We
don`t know the answer.
Now let`s get back to, I think, the big, giant shocker of the day is that we`ve just learned cops -- and we have all these documents say that
Cooper`s mom told authorities she also researched child deaths in hot cars.
It was revealed in this search warrant that Leanna Harris made similar statements regarding researching in-car deaths and how it occurs. OK, the
dad has already admitted doing those kinds of searches and said essentially, "I did it because I was fearful of something like that
happening." And then it does happen.
Now, when I heard about the wife saying, "I did it," I immediately thought of another parent who was accused of killing her child, Casey Anthony. And
I thought of her mom, Cindy.
Remember, Cindy Anthony took the stand in her daughter`s murder trial and shocked everyone when she said, "No, I`m the one responsible for the very
incriminating computer searches like chloroform and neck breaking." And a lot of people suggested that she was lying on the stand, but she hasn`t
been accused of that formally, so you know, I don`t want to say that. But her daughter was acquitted.
And even the prosecutor told me, well, you know, a mother will do anything to protect her child.
So I want to go to Evangeline Gomez. Do you think that Leanna`s taking a page out of Cindy`s playbook and trying to take responsibility for an
incriminating Internet search?
E. GOMEZ: Jane, that`s a good point. She definitely could be taking a page out of her book. But here`s also another point. The warrant doesn`t
state exactly when she was conducting these searches. So we don`t know if she conducted these searches after she found out he had died and after
receiving the information that he was left in a hot car. So that`s something we have to bear in mind at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. Now Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor, Ross Harris said he conducted them recently, these Internet searches about
how long it takes a child to die in a hot car, because he was fearful of something like that happening. So to me, that says he did them, obviously,
before the child died.
So my point still stands that -- you know, one of the things that I want to say is that this mom does -- undoubtedly does not have all the evidence
that police have, especially if police know that she`s really sticking up for her husband, they`re not going to feed her all the information that
they`re going to have in the probable cause hearing or even withhold some of it from that hearing, because you don`t want to give the other side all
the evidence you have, right?
MURPHY: That`s right. That`s right. And if she`s sticking together with daddy, be very, very protective of the evidence, because she`ll just share
it with him.
I think it`s an important question, you know: is the lawyer that`s representing him also giving instructions to momma? Because that`s a very
nice strategy. I put a whole chapter on this in my book. It`s called the cross-finger-pointing strategy. When only two people know what happened,
and they each blame a little bit against the other one, sometimes they both walk free. It`s a very despicable strategy in a case like this. It
makes me sick. That`s exactly what I think is going on. No way did she search that question, but she lied to cops and said she did...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we don`t know that.
MURPHY: I`m telling you, she lied.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a theory. It`s a theory. And she`s invited on any time. We would love to have her on.
Nick, before we lose you, CNN correspondent who was inside the funeral, I think a lot of people are perplexed by the standing ovations. I mean, did
anybody say, you know, something -- something`s fishy here?
VALENCIA: There were two standing ovations, Jane. One was prompted by a family friend. He said, in a theater when actors do something well, they
give a standing ovation. Let`s give Cooper Harris, that little 22-month- old baby, let`s give him a standing ovation. The hundreds in attendance, they did that.
The second standing ovation was unprompted. It`s when Leanna Harris was up in front of the crowd and said, "He`s a wonderful father. He`s the leader
of our family." And unprompted the crowd stood up and started clapping for him.
Now, I want to make this point also, Jane. We spent a lot of hours canvassing the cities, Tuscaloosa, Northport, Fosters, Alabama, where the
family and friends are from, and no one that we came across had anything but great things to say about Ross Harris. They talked about his wonderful
character. They talked about him being a church, God-centered man, a young man who attended church retreat, a very likable and charming individual.
We were hard-pressed to find anyone.
Having said that, Carol Brown, the woman I spoke to on the record, on camera, said that she had the same questions as everyone else. Why would
Justin Ross Harris go to his car in the middle of the day? How could he have not seen his baby in the back of that car? She said, even with those
questions, that no one should rush to judgment. That we don`t know everything, and of course, as you mentioned, Jane, police have to have
something more. Otherwise, they wouldn`t have leveled that murder charge. We`re going to wait to see what happens Thursday when he appears in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much. Nick Valencia reporting from Atlanta, where this is all going down, as well as Alabama, where the funeral
occurred.
On the other side of the break, a dream that the father, this guy, had as told by his father, and it`s kind of creepy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just seems out of character for Ross.
And I know people change. It`s been 15 years or so since we`ve had contact in the church, so you know, people change. But I -- it`s just hard for me
to imagine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are also searching Harris`s SUV for clues to determine what or who killed this little boy one week ago. Harris told
Atlanta-area investigators he forgot to drop the toddler off at a daycare center on his way to work and only realized the boy was still strapped into
his car seat while driving home from work more than seven hours later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leanna Harris, little Cooper`s mom, raised some eyebrows when she said at his funeral some rather unusual things: that she didn`t
want her dead son back. Listen to this, as voiced by one of our producers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss him with all my heart. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judy Ho, forensic psychologist, here`s what one Facebook person said, Lori (ph): "It never crossed her mind they would have a
funeral, and it never crossed her mind to be mad at the killer dad, but what did cross her mind is to search for kids dying in hot cars. And then
she says something like this, that she doesn`t want -- she wouldn`t have her son back?"
HO: Jane, it makes no sense. And coupled with what you said earlier in the segment, that she also was talking about all of the trials and
tribulations of raising a child, the many times they had to wake up. Their sleep was disrupted. Having to change a diaper. This is not a normal
grieving mom`s reaction to such a surprise death. So I don`t want to obviously make too many accusations here. But something doesn`t add up.
And on the innocent side, maybe she`s just standing by this guy and doesn`t want to lose him along with the baby. But on the more cynical side, it`s
very possible that they`ve even discussed this on some level before he planned to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t want to --
ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, Jane --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s probably in shock. She`s probably in shock. And let me -- go ahead, go ahead -- Adam.
THOMPSON: This is a perfect jury pool presentation. Let the jury already be affected by what they`re saying. This was a carefully laid-out speech
prepared that really helps the husband and wife, if charges are brought because it shows unity, it shows the community is behind them when they get
up and applaud. But this could be carefully crafted out and be used for later in a jury pool. I don`t buy any of it.
MURPHY: She`s setting herself up --
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: I don`t buy it --
MURPHY: -- as the Plan B suspect.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it.
MURPHY: It`s obvious.
THOMPSON: I don`t buy it.
MURPHY: She`s setting herself up as the Plan B suspect. She`s the built- in wifely reasonable doubt. This is day one of the defense strategy. Shame on her -- she should go straight to hell --
THOMPSON: I agree. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy, she just lost a child. Look Evangeline --
MURPHY: I don`t care. She doesn`t deserve a child.
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: If you lost a child, you would be upset. Even if you believe your husband, you would be upset.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right -- Adam. One second -- Adam. Adam.
Ok. She just lost her child. She`s in shock. If you think about the five stages of grief, the first one is denial. I believe she`s in denial. I
don`t even think this has hit her. And she doesn`t know all the evidence that the cops have. They`re not sharing it with her. Her husband says I
didn`t do any -- it was a terrible accident, honey. And she believes it and she`s trying to say -- this is my opinion --
E. GOMEZ: Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
THOMPSON: Jane -- no way.
(CROSSTALK)
E. GOMEZ: The mother who just lost her child --
THOMPSON: They both researched how kids die --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam, stop.
E. GOMEZ: It`s selfish. She doesn`t want her child back? Any mother who loses -- any parent who loses a child wants that child back. They don`t
say something like, it`s such a selfish world, I wish my -- I`m glad my child isn`t here. I mean that`s unheard of. I don`t know who feels that
way when they lose a child.
THOMPSON: Exactly.
E. GOMEZ: Not even someone who`s in denial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronica, Veronica.
WATERS: I think it`s interesting that both Leanna and Ross volunteered this information to the police. I find that sort of curious. This wasn`t
something that police discovered on their own. If you want to say that this was something that they crafted, that`s the most interesting thing
about that to me. when police came there, they said, you know what, by the way, when you look at our Internet searches, you`re going to see we were
looking up stuff about hot car deaths and the temperature and how long it takes. That`s very curious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe Gomez?
HO: Right.
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: Yes. I think that this wife -- this woman is brainwashed. I think that -- she sounds like she`s part of a cult and this
guy is her cult leader. I mean it seems to me like you`re right, that she`s in denial, that she`s buying all this stuff and she`s propping him up
on this pedestal that she cannot come to grips with the fact that he may have killed her son, her baby boy.
MURPHY: She`s sly like a fox.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are going to cover the dream, the dream that is very strange that Justin Ross Harris, the dad`s father said that -- the
dad, the one who the child died on his watch, either intentionally as cops believe or accidentally as he claims, he had this very strange dream.
Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just screamed "What have I done" loudly. Obviously, it was a bit dramatic. You know, hands in the air, looking up towards the
sky, "What have I done?" That was such a (inaudible). He would calm down and be really relaxed and then he would do the whole "What have I done"
thing again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN ROSS HARRIS, BOY`S FATHER: Thank you for everything you`ve done for my boy. Good life. No words to say. Just horrible. I`m just sorry I
can`t be there.
LEANNA HARRIS, BOY`S MOTHER: First of all, Ross, I love you and I`m doing this for you, ok? Two years ago when we welcomed a six-pound, eight-ounce
perfect baby into the world, this never crossed my mind. He was perfect and he is perfect. He changed mine and Ross` life.
I`ve talked to you about the magnitude in which he changed it. As children do, he turned our lives upside down. I wouldn`t trade it for the world.
Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely not. It has never crossed my mind. Ross is and was and will be, if we have more children, a wonderful father. Ross
is a wonderful daddy and leader for our household. Cooper meant the world to him.
Some of you might wonder how I`m even standing here today. I wonder that myself, and I asked myself that question over and over the last week. I
should be crumpled into a heap of snot and tears into the dirt, but the Lord is holding me up right now. He is holding Ross up. And he is holding
both of us up when we can`t hold ourselves up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ross Harris` father, little Cooper`s grandfather, also spoke at the funeral over the weekend and revealed an extremely bizarre
dream his son, the accused murderer, told him about. Ross` father said his son recently told him that he dreamt that Cooper was sitting on Jesus` lap
looking down at them and that he was playing a guitar in the dream and that his wife, Leanna, was working in a nursery with children.
Boy, I need to go out to my "Lion`s Den" on this. Dream analysis, what the heck, Dr. Judy Ho, forensic psychologist, what`s that?
(CROSSTALK)
HO: Oh, my goodness, dream analysis indeed, Jane. What is going on with this father?
I know that we haven`t talked about this very much, but sometimes I wonder, especially because in cases of mothers killing their babies, there`s often
a delusional component. There`s something going on. They`re cracking and have a psychotic break and start having delusions of grandeur. What if the
father actually had a delusion that it was actually better for the baby to be with God or to be with Jesus, which is a common delusion many parents
who kill their children have --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen. We should say this. He has no criminal history, he has no DUIs --
HO: That doesn`t matter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- there`s no evidence of drugs and alcohol problems.
E. GOMEZ: It`s irrelevant. It`s irrelevant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was a web designer. He used to be a police dispatcher. This guy has no history of mental illness.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me ask you a practical question about behavior. Let`s put the pieces together. This is a very important piece of the
puzzle. Witnesses question this guy`s reaction to his son`s death when he pulls over at the shopping mall and he`s like, "What have I done?"
And in the new search warrants it states, quote, "When someone came to assist Justin" -- that`s the dad -- "he stopped providing medical attention
to the child and started making calls on his cell phone."
Joe Gomez, who might he have been calling?
J. GOMEZ: That`s an interesting question, Jane. And it`s also interesting that he pulls into a shopping center where there`s a lot of people there
that can see him, have this over-the-top reaction about his child, right? It sounds like he`s putting on a show. That`s what he was doing at the
funeral, sounds like because he called from a jailhouse and was sobbing.
So it seems to me as though this may be part of a big act on his part.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronica Waters, any thoughts on the phone call?
(CROSSTALK)
WATERS: Well, we were told that --
(CROSSTALK)
E. GOMEZ: I`m sorry.
WATERS: We were told that when he got away from the CPR activity that was going on with the first responders in the background, he got on the phone
and he was overheard saying, "Our baby is dead." So presumably, we`re going to find out that he was actually on the phone with his wife, Leanna,
at that time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you agree, Wendy Murphy?
MURPHY: Well, I was going to say he was probably calling his wife. But maybe also 1-800-dial-a-lawyer comes to mind. And let`s remember, people
at the scene also said the baby had been there for so long -- I hate to say it, it`s gruesome. But he stunk to high heaven. If that baby stunk when
it was out of the car, so much so that the people around could smell it and the cops reportedly could smell it and it was disgusting, are you telling
me he didn`t notice that when he got into that car and drove that -- please.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam, I`m going to give you five seconds because I cut you off earlier. Adam?
THOMPSON: I couldn`t hear you. Jane, you know what we need to do in this case? You need to answer one question. Where was that baby supposed to
be? If the baby was supposed to be with the dad, then the dad takes the baby into the work with him, doesn`t leave him in the car. If the baby was
supposed to be somewhere else, at day care, or with the mom --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. It was supposed to be at day care on site of his office. The big question is, if he knew his boy was in that car dying,
why? Why? What is the motive? Will we find that out in the coming days? We`re going to stay on top of this everyday this week.
Next, a 12-year-old boy -- you know, the one who was missing for nearly two weeks found safe in his parents` basement? Now, shocking new information
about the child`s dad and stepmom. We`ll tell you next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a wonderful father, loving father. He has a soft heart. The person that they`re trying to make him out to be on
national TV is ridiculous because that`s not him at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charles, if you were able to speak to your son right you, what would you say to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d have to say no comment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he didn`t know he was in the basement. My father would never do anything to hurt his kids. I mean he just wants the
best for us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`d been failing in school. He`d been kicked out of a couple of schools.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents allege that Charlie`s stepmother barricaded the 12-year-old boy in the basement. Blood was found inside the
home and on a PVC pipe that was allegedly used to discipline the boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a wonderful father. He`s a loving father. He has a soft heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is disciplining with a PVC pipe like the one I`m holding in my hand torture? This thing doesn`t bend.
Tonight, a 12-year-old boy vanishes, found 11 days later in the basement of his dad`s home and now shocking new court documents say Charlie`s father
admitted to disciplining his son with a PVC pipe like the one I`m holding in my hands. I don`t know what size. But they`re all just as unforgiving
and unbending.
Blood was found on one of the pipes in the home and scars and bruises from a PVC pipe were found on the boy`s body, allegedly. So is this a case of
abuse -- you think?
The father, also named Charlie, refused to say a word to reporters as he attended a hearing for his wife, Monique, the stepmom, who was arrested on
an unrelated weapons charge last week.
The couple`s two younger children were taken into protective custody. And now 12-year-old Charlie is staying with his birth mother.
Cops say little Charlie told them his stepmom hid him in the basement, ok, behind boxes. But why? And how much did this dad now? He found out his
son had been found in the basement on Nancy Grace`s show. Let`s watch his reaction again. Do you believe it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Charlie, we are getting reports that your son has been found in your basement. Sir? Mr. Bothuell, are you --
CHARLES BOTHUELL, FATHER OF CHARLIE BOTHUELL: What?
GRACE: Yes, we are getting reports that your son has been found alive in your basement.
BOTHUELL: What?
GRACE: Yes. That`s what -- if you can hand me that wire very quickly --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alex Fields, CNN correspondent, essentially he`s saying, "I had no idea." But now we`re hearing that his wife is the one who put
the boy down there, according to the boy, and hid him behind boxes. So do we just separate these two, the father and the stepmom? And do we know at
this point what the father`s involvement was in this plan to hide the kid down there?
ALEX FIELDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jane, at this point, very hard to separate the two. You saw that Charlie Bothuell was in court to support his wife,
Monique, when she faced an unrelated charge, violation of probation earlier this week. So the two seem to be supporting each other, add to that the
fact they have the same attorney representing them.
So certainly, they haven`t turned on each other, they aren`t pinning anything on one another. All we know really definitively at this point is
what Charlie Bothuell, the 12-year-old boy seems to be saying. And he has said that his stepmother told him to get in the basement, not to come out.
That he wasn`t given food and that when people left the house, he would sneak out to go get food. He was also checked out by doctors at a
children`s hospital. He was found to have a circular scar on his chest. He told the doctors that he got that scar after he was hit by his father
with a PVC pipe.
But we`ve got to underscore all of this Jane with the fact that neither Monique the stepmother nor Charles the father, had been charged with
anything in this case. These allegations that we`re learning of -- these come from a Child Protective Services document which was used in a family
court hearing for a custody hearing.
So there`s certainly a different level here when you look at these allegations. There`s a much lower standard or burden of proof when you`re
talking about a Child Protective Services petition versus actual criminal charges.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you for that excellent summary.
Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney -- you know what, until I actually felt the PVC pipe, I didn`t really have a complete grasp of this
story, but he says he -- according to the court documents -- he admits disciplining his son with a PVC pipe. I mean right there, I`m thinking,
there`s something very seriously wrong with that.
E. GOMEZ: Yes. As you know, you have a constitutional right to parent your child any way you want. Under Michigan law, you can use reasonable
force. But I will tell you, a PVC pipe to the chest of a 12-year-old child is not reasonable force at all. The exercising that he required him to do
-- well that is a whole different story.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, we`re going to talk about the exercise on the other side because that`s when in the middle of that fierce and severe
exercise regime, the child disappeared. Did he run away or did stepmom just say, "Go down to the basement because your dad`s going to be mad, I`ll
deal with it"?
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We asked you to like my Facebook and submit a pet selfie for a chance to be a star. The moment we`ve all been waiting for. The
winner for the most spirited pet selfie goes to Pok. And Juno, you were a shoe-in for the most adventurous. Oh my Lord. Molly, you won for most
athletic by a mile -- that`s a cat. And the most earthsy (ph) pet selvie goes to Rooney, one handsome kitty -- tres chic. Last but not least, the
most liked pet selfie throughout our challenge -- Max, very regal, what a portrait.
Thanks, everybody, for taking a second to like my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page and keep those incredible pet selfies coming. We`ll have
more of them in the future. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Psychologist Judy Ho, what`s wrong with Charlie`s dad, Charlie?
HO: Where do we even start -- Jane? Well, first, I want to talk about his reaction on "NANCY GRACE". When people look to the side when they discover
a new piece of information, that means that they`re thinking about a memory. And he was looking off to the side. It wasn`t a shock for him.
He was probably going over, wait a minute, "How did this information come out, how did they find my son?"
So to me, I realize that this is not just an impulsive move. This is something that they`ve been planning as a family --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say this. I think he`s living through his child and becoming the dictator in his own home with a PVC pipe.
Nancy next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
