Return to Transcripts main page
Jane Velez-Mitchell
Is Alex Tichelman a Budding Black Widow?; Who Killed Maggie Daniels?; Hot Car Death: Mom Lawyers Up; Chicken Abuse Uncovered at North Carolina Farm
Aired July 10, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that can help find out who did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of technology. If things are done right, everything falls into place. And sometimes a little bit of luck helps.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, stunning new twists in the case of that dad accused of intentionally killing his two-year-old boy by leaving
him to bake to death inside a sweltering hot car. Is the boy`s mom now preparing to face charges?
And we`ve got new developments on that dad, as well.
But first, cops are calling this woman a fam [SIC] fatale -- a femme fatal who lured in her prey with her sexuality and then killed when he least
expected it. They say this 26-year-old vixen offed a high-profile married father of five Google executive, and now they`re trying to figure out if
that could be her second killing.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a high-priced prostitute, according to police, her Facebook page filled with provocative images.
Discovered video showing her injecting heroin into Hayes and then letting him die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a 51-year-old Google executive and married father of five.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was so callous that she literally stepped over the victim`s body to retrieve her glass of wine and finished the glass of wine
as the victim is laying there dying at her feet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She watched him overdose and, police say, left him dead on the boat. And Hayes may not be her only victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Twenty-six-year-old Alex Tichelman, seen here in Facebook photos, is accused of injecting technology executive Forrest Hayes with
heroin and then watching the married father of five, this executive, die.
Cops say he hired the high-class prostitute for a night of sex and drugs. He was found dead on his California yacht called Escape. It appeared to be
an overdose. But what cops say this woman did not know is that surveillance cameras captured the whole thing.
They say the video shows her sticking the needle in his arm, and as he starts to die, she then steps over the body to finish a glass of wine. And
cops say she later lowers a blind to conceal his body from outside view.
Well, now police are reopening an investigation into the death of her boyfriend, who died just two months before Forrest Hayes. And they
originally thought that boyfriend`s death was an accidental heroin overdose. Coincidence?
She calls herself a model, a writer, a makeup artist who even hosted a tutorial of herself on YouTube. Cops says she`s a prostitute. Is she also
a secret black widow?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX TICHELMAN, ACCUSED OF MURDER: First we start with the primer. I use two. Personally my favorite is the Urban Decay potion, but I ran out of
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I want to hear your theories about this alleged femme fatale. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out WSB`s Mike Petchenik. You`ve been all over this story. What is the latest?
MIKE PETCHENIK, WSB (via phone): Jane, late this afternoon police here in Georgia confirmed that Alex told police in California that she provided the
heroin to her then-boyfriend, a guy named Dean Riopelle. He was a club owner here in the Atlanta area, had been dating her for some time.
They say that contradicts what she told them last September, saying that he was drinking and taking painkillers all day. She was taking a shower,
heard a thump, came out and found him unconscious on the ground.
In that case, she did call 911 but made no mention at all of heroin. In fact, the toxicology report came back. The medical examiner here in Fulton
County, Georgia, says that there was heroin in his system.
So now police in Milton, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, are reopening Riopelle`s death investigation. They want to know if this was accidental.
But they also want to know if perhaps this was also intentionally injected into the drug.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what this reminds me of, Areva Martin, is Drew Peterson, the cop who, once wife No. 4 vanishes, then they go back and
they review the so-called accidental death in a bathtub of wife No. 3. And they end up saying, "Uh-oh," that was a murder, and he was convicted of
that murder.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Jane. There are too many similarities in these cases. And I think, you know, we`re hearing about this woman
obsess with serial killers, obsess with the dark side, obsess with, you know, apparently being in this very, you know, high-end lifestyle and
giving drugs to both of these men.
The callous nature of this, you know, injecting you know, the Google executive with heroin, pulling the shade down, stepping over his body,
drinking a glass of wine. I would not be surprised if we don`t see the charges elevated from second-degree murder to perhaps premeditated murder
in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to get to my theory about that. But let me do this. Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney, if I were her
defense attorney, that here`s what I`d say. Let`s leave the boyfriend who died a couple of months before out of it for a second.
"Hey, this guy asked me to shoot him up. So I did what I was told. I`m a prostitute. I was hired to do what he said. So I shot him up. And then I
left because he nodded off. Did I know he was dying? No. I thought he was just nodding off, the way heroin addicts do. So I just got out of
there." I mean, wouldn`t that be a great defense, Evangeline?
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You can expect her attorney to make some sort of defense. But what`s interesting here is that
this woman is a prostitute, but it`s not a prostitute because she`s caught up in an everyday struggle in life. She hails from a wealthy family. Her
father is a CEO tech. So this woman is a pretty sinister individual.
What she`s probably also going to point out is you didn`t see what happened before the videotape. Maybe he was shooting himself up with heroin. Which
was the lethal dose, the one she gave him on the leg that was on the videotape, or the doses before, if they existed? So you can expect her to
put up some kind of defense.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And wait a second. Let`s just nail that one down for a second, because he`s a guy. He`s a 51-year-old guy. And may he rest in
peace, but there`s no way that this woman is going to hold him down and force him to shoot up and shoot him up against his will. I mean, if this
guy didn`t want to be shot up, he could have said, "Hey, it`s my yacht. Step off."
GOMEZ: He could have -- absolutely right. You`re absolutely right, that he could have pushed her off. And so the other issue is maybe this guy was
a heroin user, heavy heroin user or addict, and that`s why he sought this type of woman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho.
GOMEZ: ... heroin comes up. So he specifically targeted this woman because she provides the sex and she also provides the drugs. His drug of
choice maybe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, psychologist, do you have clients who are high-end that nobody in the world would suspect are heroin addicts, but
they`re executives and they are drug addicts?
DR. JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely, Jane. And because these individuals are often susceptible to very high-stress situations as part of
their daily lives, they seek an escape. And this is a coping skill for them. So many executives, many people oftentimes are attracted to
substances for this reason.
And so we do have to look at that tendency for this Google executive. Why he`s seeking this danger, why he`s seeking this out-of-control behavior.
It`s because, for most of his life, he`s always in control, and that gets tiring after a while if you don`t have good psychological skills to deal
with it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s get back to Alex. Alex, this woman, had accounts on Facebook and Twitter. She reportedly posted some very disturbing comments
that appeared to show a dark side on Facebook.
She wrote, quote, "It`s really nice to talk with someone about killing sprees and murdering people in cold blood, and they love it, too. No
judgment. Yay. Bleep all that positivity. Bull. Take a look around you. Life is hard, and then you die."
And she also tweeted, quote, "When you least expect it, I will be lying in wait. You won`t know what hit you."
So I got to go to Jen Heger, managing editor, Radar Online. That puts everything in a completely different light.
JEN HEGER, MANAGING EDITOR, RADAR ONLINE: It does, Jane. But I think there`s another important element of this story that nobody is really
giving a lot of attention to. The fact that there was surveillance video on this vote, and the family, Mr. Hayes`s family, and the boat captain
refused to turn over that video surveillance, up until recently when investigators had to go get a court order to get it.
So that`s very suspicious, because they obviously didn`t want the world to know that her husband, the father of five children, was out with
prostitutes and overdosed with heroin. So they had to know what was going on in his private life.
And then you have this high-class hooker who could very well be a black widow madam. And you know that this is not the only high-tech executive
that she`s been with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she had an ongoing relationship, allegedly, with this Google executive, correct, Jen?
HEGER: Correct. Correct. They had a long-standing relationship. And we don`t know what other drugs Forrest Hayes had done prior to the heroin.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re just getting started. Facebook lighting up on this. We`re going to tell you what folks are saying on the other side. We`re
also taking your calls. Is this woman some sort of serial killer? Two men die on her watch within a two-month period. From one coast to the other.
What`s going on? Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Showed our suspect, showed our victim, showed her injecting him with heroin. Showed her absolute callousness after the fact
as he starts to have medical complications. There was no effort to call 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was so callous that, in gathering her things, she was literally stepping over the body and, at one point, stepped over the
body to grab a glass of wine and finish the glass of wine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This stunning 26-year-old, Alex Tichelman, is charged with manslaughter in the death of this married father of five, Google executive,
or shoot him up with heroin and then leaving as he died.
Now, Alex reportedly loved the TV show "Dexter," which is about a forensic expert by day, serial killer by night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL C. HALL, ACTOR: I can`t believe there was a time I actually thought I`d learn something from you.
JOHN LITHGOW, ACTOR: You think you`re better than I am?
HALL: No, but I want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So John Lucich, co-founder E.E. Forensics, former state criminal investigator, Dexter justifies his murders saying he only kills
bad guys. She was having on ongoing prostitution relationship, according to cops, with this Google executive. Could she have justified in her mind,
"He`s a bad guy? I`m going to pull a `Dexter` and off him"?
LUCICH: Absolutely. I mean, if you take a look at her Facebook page, she`s talking about killing sprees. She`s talking about cold-blooded
murder. And let`s not forget there is a video, and in this video, according to the reports, this individual, Hayes, was clutching his chest.
Anyone who could see this would actually say this individual needs help.
And like the investigator said, she callously ignored that, walked over his body, drank the rest of the wine, lowered the shade so nobody could find
him and possibly rendering him help and walked out and left him to die. He was still alive and dying in front of her, and she walked out and left him
like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Facebook exploding.
LUCICH: The facts are the facts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Melissa, "She is a classic sociopath. She has no empathy." Martin, "I don`t think I`m buying this. She`s not killing
people to get their money. She isn`t married to them. She doesn`t get paid if sugar daddy goes away."
So not everybody`s buying it. Let`s go to Danita, Canada. What you got to say, Danita?
CALLER: I just got to say they say she`s callous. How callous is he to cheat on his wife and take her life into his hands? I mean, I say
justifiable homicide.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jen Hager, managing editor, this is a scandal. On top of being a manslaughter investigation, it`s a big scandal. This guy is
a high-tech executive. He was. He was married and had five kids. And as you say, I don`t think they wanted this to come out.
HAGER: They absolutely did not want this to come out. In fact, they kept the true cause of his death a secret until the prostitute was charged in
criminal court yesterday. His obituary made no mention of a drug overdose. And he was very respected in the community. And now his image is tarnished
forever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, my heart goes out to his family. They did nothing wrong. I think they`re ancillary victims here. And we`re going to find
out. We`re going to stay on top of this Alex Tichelman, this 26-year-old, and find out if she, indeed, cops think she is a budding serial killer. Or
big coincidence, two men die on her watch, both from heroin.
Up next, a gorgeous young teacher found dead in her apartment. We`ve got breaking news in the hunt for her killer. We`re going to talk exclusively
to somebody who knows her very well, who spent a lot of time with her. This murder in a small time has shocked the community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was my counselor. She was my friend and she`s -- she`s missed. Very, very deeply.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who would come in and do that? Who? Who? Only God knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I pray to God that they find out who killed Maggie. I pray to God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators looking for a killer. Thirty-one-year- old counselor and coach of discovery high school from Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in there laying down. I don`t even want to touch her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she alive or dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a real nice person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news in the manhunt for the murder of a beautiful teacher from North Carolina, as cops release this photo from surveillance
video -- you`re going to see it in a second -- taken just hours before somebody murdered Maggie Daniels. We are now learning about an ominous
tweet telling Maggie to be careful of a mystery neighbor.
Are cops any closer to finding this beautiful teacher`s killer?
Cops say the stunning 31-year-old who had once been named teacher of the year was found dead in her apartment a week and a half ago. Police were
called out to a damage to property visit. While they`re working that case, neighbors rush over and tell them, "Hey, we think Maggie`s dead in her
apartment."
Listen to this 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of my friends is in that apartment. She`s been -- I think she`s been there for like a day. She was in there laying down. I
didn`t even want to touch her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she alive or did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not sure at all. They are going to go in there. It shook me up when I seen her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now we`re learning that just last year Maggie tweeted a text a friend sent her, saying, quote, "Be careful with your
neighbor you mentioned. I would really encourage you to take a self- defense class," end quote.
So was a neighbor stalking and plotting to kill this beautiful teacher the whole time? Or was somebody else obsessed with her?
I want to go to my very special guest, Maggie Daniels, the dead woman`s, dear friend, Justin Terrell. Thank you so much for joining us, Justin.
JUSTIN TERRELL, FRIEND OF MAGGIE DANIELS: You`re welcome.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You just heard that -- that tweet. She tweeted out a warning that somebody sent her, saying, "Hey, you`re worried about a
neighbor. You better take a self-defense class or do something to protect yourself."
What do you make of it? Because you and your wife have spent a lot of time with her, and she was one of your dearest friends.
TERRELL: Yes, you know, I saw that. You know, there`s been a lot of speculation going around, a lot of different things. We knew Maggie very
well. My wife knew her her whole life. They grew up together up in Lakewood, Ohio. They happened to move down to the same small town and
teach school in the same town and didn`t even realize it.
You know, they have such a neat history. But we saw that, and you know, it easy. Everything you here, you just want to jump on and read it and it
take it for whatever it is. But we all want closure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this. Did she ever say, "I`m worried about somebody in my building, a neighbor who`s bugging me"
Huh?
TERRELL: The answer is easily no. She never expressed that to us whatsoever. I was a little surprised when I saw that, you know.
Maggie is not typically the type of person that would express any concern like that. She`s usually very upbeat. She was always very positive and
uplifting. She just -- she wanted you to feel good. She wasn`t really worried about -- if she had had an issue like that, I don`t know if it`s
something that maybe, when she first moved into the complex, there was somebody that she didn`t feel comfortable about, and as time passed, it
went away.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, something happened to her that`s very serious, so I think we have to look at that. And I think that`s a very important piece
of evidence.
TERRELL: I completely agree. I completely agree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This past Friday Maggie is last seen by the apartment complex`s janitor and a former student visiting his girlfriend in the same
complex. They both said everything appeared fine. She was taking out the trash. A couple of hours later, she`s seen at a Wal-Mart with a friend.
Later that night Maggie`s friend said they had plans, but Maggie stood her up and never even picked up the phone. So maybe something terrible
happened, on Friday night, it looks like.
And Saturday morning, at 9:07 in the morning, cops respond to a reported damage to property inside the complex. 10:37, neighbors race up to the
cops and alert them to an unresponsive female in the apartment.
So John Lucich, criminal investigator, what do you make of that tweet? And what do you make of the timeline?
LUCICH: Well, we`ve got to see if there`s any credence to the tweet. That`s No. 1. And the time line is crucial here. And it also has to take
a look at is, is that property damage related to this event in any way? Was that property -- because it wasn`t specific about what that property
damage was.
Did somebody break in somewhere when -- prior to this body being found? I mean, the fact that some -- that she wrote to someone in an e-mail and
expressed concern about an individual and they wrote back to her is troubling. It`s something the cops need to do. But right now what the
cops are going to do is canvas everybody talking, everybody in the neighborhood...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in. We`re tight on time. I know you want to mention something about her character, that she was absolutely squeaky
clean. She never did drugs. She didn`t drink. Tell us very briefly. We only have 30 seconds.
TERRELL: Yes, I just want to say anybody that knows her, when she came into my life through my wife, I honestly felt blessed, because she was just
such a positive attitude, and she helped me in a lot of ways. And it really saddens me that I`ll never get to tell her that.
But I just -- you know, I want everybody out there to know that didn`t know Maggie that she was definitely an angel on earth, and she loved children.
And that is really her top priority was to help the children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the victim here, Justin, I want to thank you. I`m sorry. We`re tight on time. I thank you and applaud you for standing up
for your friend. We want to find her killer. We want to bring that person to justice. We`re going to stay on top of this.
Now on the other side, incredible stunning twist in the hot car death investigation. Mom Leanna Harris, she`s not part of the investigation
right now -- well, she is part of the investigation. She`s not under investigation. But is that about to change?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In front of several witnesses all of a sudden she states, "Ross must have left him in the car."
And they`re like, "What?"
"There`s no other -- no other reason. Ross must have" -- no other explanation, excuse me -- "Ross must have left him in the car."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left him in the back of his SUV while he went to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pulled his child out, laid him on the concrete, and tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first police said the 33-year-old father made a terrible mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He claims he simply forgot to drop Cooper off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is impossible for this to have been intentional.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t take long for them to question his story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things are not always what they appear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like it`s a rush to judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`ll be entering a plea of not guilty at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could feel his sorrow and his hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes police get it wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight new twists and turns -- dramatic ones in the hot car death investigation as the dead toddler`s mother lawyers up. That`s
right Leanna Harris who has said some suspicious things according to a lot of people has just hired Atlanta criminal defense attorney, Lawrence
Zimmerman. Is this mother getting the feeling that she`s going to be the next one arrested?
It`s interesting that her attorney`s Web site is atlantanotguilty.com. So far mom`s got nothing to be acquitted of. She hasn`t been named as
suspect. She hasn`t been charged with anything. But some might say, hey could that change?
Prosecutors say Ross Harris, her husband, left their son to die in a hot car intentionally as he carried on his double life of lying and sexting
with multiple women even sending pictures of his erect private parts to some of them while his son was dying.
We`ve just learned he`s been fired from his job at Home Depot. I would say sexting and spending pictures of your privates is a fireable offense.
Cooper died an excruciating death in a Home Depot corporate parking lot. He was strapped in way too tight to the car seat he`d overgrown as
temperatures inside that SUV soared to an estimated 130 degrees.
We now know that Cooper did not have any drugs in his system when he died. The toxicology results have come back negative. So which side will declare
victory on those toxicology results? The prosecution or the defense?
Straight to the "Lion`s Den". First of all, Areva Martin, attorney -- let`s talk about the significance of Leanna hiring an attorney. Could it
indicate a rift with her husband? Could it indicate that she`s gotten some kind of signal from prosecutors or cops that a charge could be coming down?
There she is chewing gum at her husband`s probable cause hearing last week.
MARTIN: I think Jane, she`s watching the same news that we`re watching daily and that news suggests that she definitely is under investigation by
the police. The same evidence that is going to be used against her husband, some of which we saw during the preliminary hearing is also
damaging to her. The life insurance policy, apparently she was involved in that; some of the comments that she made after she learned that her son had
died; these Web sites that they visited about no children and how long it takes a child to die in the car -- some of that same evidence.
And we do know that in Georgia because there is a death of a child involved, they don`t have the marital privilege. So she could be forced to
testify against her husband and her husband against her. So I think anyone with half a brain would have done what she did which is get a lawyer
because there are some very serious charges that may be coming down the pipeline for her just like with respect to her husband.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well yes. And let`s talk about her behavior and words since her child`s death. It`s raised eyebrows. Like her asking her
husband at the police station when they are reunited after the boy`s death, "Did you say too much?" And what she said to day care workers before
anybody had told her that her son died. She goes to pick up her son and listen to what she says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in front of several witnesses all of sudden she states, "Ross must have left him in the car." And they are like what?
There`s no other reason, Ross -- no other explanation, excuse me. "Ross must have left him in the car." And they tried to console her, like no,
there are a thousand reasons, you know. He could have taken him to (inaudible). We don`t know yet. And she`s like no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So Leanna also admitted to searching "hot car death" on the Internet. Dr. Judy Ho, the more I`ve been thinking about this --
let`s stretch -- she hasn`t been charged with anything. Everybody has been debating whether her researching "hot car deaths" is incriminating. When
she comes to the conclusion that he died in a hot car before anybody told her that is incriminating.
But imagine what happened possibly the night before. What if at some prior time this husband had said to her, you know, what -- because she admitted
we`re having intimacy problems. What if he had said to her, you know what you better step up to the plate and satisfy me better sexually or you might
find our son dead in a hot car one day? And then she researches that because he scared the wits out of her and then when she finally goes to the
day care center and her son is not there, she goes oh he must have left him in the car. I mean there are scenarios, Dr. Judy Ho that could explain
that.
DR. JUDY HO, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Definitely Jane there are scenarios. But when you think about some of the other pieces of information and put it
all together it makes more sense that she was involved in thinking this through herself. And what I look at most is her behavior at her son`s
funeral where she talked about mostly herself and how it was really difficult for her to get up and talk to everybody and about her
relationship with her husband.
And also she jumped right through all of the stages of grief and went right to acceptance about her son`s death saying that "It`s ok because now he
doesn`t have to suffer through a tough adolescence in our broken world." What kind of mother says that at your son`s funeral? You must be confused.
You must be upset. Instead she jumps right to the end and was really standing by her husband this entire time. To me that shows that here was a
couple that thought about this together.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s what Facebook is saying. Sharon says "I bet she got wind Ross was about to throw her under the bus." So Evangeline
Gomez, criminal defense attorney, how would you defend her if she is charged with being a part of let`s say -- and this is just hypothetical,
she`s not charged with anything. But let`s say she`s charged with conspiracy.
GOMEZ: Well, there`s going to be -- the prosecution is going to have to present a lot of evidence for us to get that type of charge. But the issue
here is she can say this is something he was doing on his own. I understand we had issues in our marriage. I didn`t know he was with these
numerous women communicating with them. I didn`t know that he had planned do this to our child.
What we still don`t know Jane, is whether or not he had left this child in the car before and that`s what made her think that. Remember the probably
cause hearing is where the prosecution presents its best evidence -- evidence that is favorable to their case. So even if they have that
information they are not always going to share it at a probable cause hearing.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say the most incriminating thing that she said as far as I`m concerned. At the funeral, right at the start, when she starts
talking she says "Ross I`m doing this for you." Doing what for you?
Now, let`s go to Ross Harris and his phony online personas that are just starting to be uncovered. Exhibit A: let`s check out his profile on the
meet-up site Scout. He lies repeatedly. First he says his name is RJ -- wrong, not his name. That`s lie number one. Then he says he`s 27 years
old -- wrong, he`s actually 33. Then he says he lives in Smyrna, Georgia. Lie number three -- he doesn`t live there. He lives in a different part of
Atlanta.
But guess what he does. He admits "Yes, I`m married." We have a winner. Why of all the things to be truthful about, to be truthful about that?
John Lucich, criminal investigator, I have to say and then you look at these photos where he kind of looks great comparatively. In the top tier
is what he`s sending out on his profile picks. The bottom is sort of a shlubbier look that is in court and the family.
I got to wonder, when he says he`s married, could they have been swingers?
JOHN LUCICH, CO-FOUNDER, E.E. FORENSICS: You are not going to do believe this Jane but there are a lot of women out there that would like to hook up
with a guy who`s married because there is no commitment.
HO: That`s right.
LUCICH: We do a lot of computer forensics, we take a look at a lot of computers -- and it`s amazing. There is actually madison.com out there
that`s just made for married affairs. It is on and on.
And remember, the timeline of these computers searches for both him and her are going to be crucial. That`s going to tie this in. And as far as her
lawyering up I think it`s the right thing to do because they know they`re targeting her and she`s going to work a deal if she can and turn her
husband over.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quickly, Aileen, Florida -- what have you got to say? Aileen, Florida.
AILEEN, FLORIDA (via telephone): Hi Jane. How are you doing?
This whole situation with this woman who says that because her son wasn`t in day care that he must have left him in the car -- was there not any
communication between her and her husband? And --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. They communicated about 45 minutes earlier -- that happened at about 4:51. And they had talked for a minute at about
4:04. So she could argue well, he didn`t say anything about forgetting his son. So that`s why I immediately concluded he must have left him in the
car. That`s a good defense for her.
Listen, on the other side of the break, we are going to talk to a good friend of Justin Ross Harris, Chris Wilkinson, and she`s got a whole new
theory about what her former friend is up to and what was going on in this horrific, horrific scenario.
Stay right there. We`re going to talk to Chris right on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely not. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just started screaming and she`s like "What do you mean Cooper`s no longer here? What do you mean?" And during this
conversation with all this emotion coming out, she`s asked Leanna --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s the emotion coming from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The emotion`s coming from her mom or who she identified as her mom. And during this she`s like why aren`t you crying? Why aren`t
you reacting to this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did Leanna say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she said I must be in shock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Justin and Leanna Harris had moved from Alabama to Georgia a couple years ago. I want to go to Chris Wilkinson, a friend of Justin
Ross Harris or a former friend based in Alabama. You knew him back in the Alabama days. What is your theory of this case?
CHRIS WILKINSON, FORMER FRIEND OF ROSS HARRIS (via telephone): Well in trying to make some sense of this I`ve been trying to get into his head and
I looked at some of the things online and what not. And it became kind of clear to me what it looks like is he wanted out.
He knew his family was really religious and a divorce would never go, would never fly. A divorce with a little itty-bitty baby for sure would never
fly. But if he could walk away from his marriage, you know, given that his family would be sympathetic to a marriage that couldn`t stand up under the
pressure as such a horrible thing happening, you know, the guy I see looking back at me now I think is totally capable of this kind of thing.
The Ross I knew again was not. But, you know, clearly we`ve got a bunch of different personas going on. And I just think he wanted out and he thought
this was the best way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you see the contrast of his family photos with the photos of him in a bathroom -- that is in some kind of bathroom stall
taking photos of himself and we know he sent photos of his -- cops say his erect penis to women. You are saying in other words that you never knew
this guy for real.
WILKINSON: No. I mean there`s -- and anybody I guess in psychology will tell you, anybody that changes their appearance like that and what not,
first of all, isn`t happy with their own self image. His self image here was fine. We all loved Ross. You know, I`ve heard him referred to pretty
pejoratively, you know, based on the perp shots that were coming out.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We got to leave it right there. Sorry Chris but thank you for your theory.
Tomorrow SECRET LIVES special on the hot car death investigation right here at 7:00 p.m. on HLN. Please join us for that.
More on the other side we`ve got some fascinating stories for you that you really have to see to believe. It is a shocker next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Workers at Prince Poultry, a North Carolina chicken farm, toss sick, insured, and unwanted chicken into a pit filled with
decaying birds, leaving them to die. Listen to what this farmhand says to an undercover animal rights activist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one is still alive. Should we hit him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we`re going to drop them in the pit just like they are. You dump them in there and Mother Nature takes care of the rest of
them. You go in there in the summer time and it smells real nice over. If you look down in there, and it`s like a gravy that`s just simmering and
squirming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey little Rico, tonight undercover investigations that expose horrifying abuse on factory farms could soon be outlawed. That
means that investigations like this one which a group called Compassion over Killing conducted at Prince Poultry in North Carolina would be
illegal?
The undercover investigator who went inside Prince Poultry found examples of horrifying cruelty. She even saw chickens being buried alive. Listen
to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The activist who recorded the video was posing as an intern. She didn`t want her identity revealed in our interview.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw cruel practices every day I was on the phone from the first day to the final day. I`d say everything that you see in
the footage is standard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Standard practice to bury animals alive? Compassion over Killing filed a complaint with law enforcement and the North Carolina
Bureau of Investigation started an inquiry into the farm`s practices.
Straight out to CNN correspondent, Chris Frates -- Chris, you broke this cruelty story nationally. Great work. To stop these kinds of exposes,
though, in the past couple of years three states have passed AG-gag laws that make these kinds of undercover investigations a crime. And right now
there are efforts to pass similar AG-gag laws in North Carolina and 13 other states. So what can that mean for the future of investigations like
the one conducted at Prince Poultry?
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I`ll tell you Jane, it essentially criminalizes these kinds of undercover exposes. And the animal rights
activists that I talk to, they argue that because there`s little oversight of these kinds of farms -- remember this is not something that`s generally
federally inspected.
The hidden cameras by these animal activists are one of the most effective ways of showing the public exactly what goes on behind these closed doors.
Their videos have gone mainstream. They led to criminal charges, fines, even the largest meat recall in American history was because one of these
videos got out there into the public.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. I mean there`s many organizations doing these kinds of undercover exposes. Chris, you confronted Tim Prince, the
owner of Prince Poultry. Let`s watch what he told you about the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM PRINCE, OWNER, PRINCE POULTRY: She took just the very minute little things that we`d done wrong.
FRATES: When other folks look at this who are familiar with your business and they see live chickens getting dropped into a pit they might not call
that minute.
PRINCE: And you`re probably right.
FRATES: He admits the chicken should have been killed before being thrown in the pit but says he does take care of the birds. They`re his
livelihood.
PRINCE: I try to run a clean business. And there was a few things on there I saw that shouldn`t happen. Yes, sir, I`ll agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prince Poultry provides exclusively to chicken producer Pilgrim`s Pride, the second largest chicken producer in the world. And
their products show up in stores and restaurants across America. In a statement, Pilgrim`s Pride told CNN, quote, "out of an abundance of caution
we have retrained the grower in question and his employees. Pilgrim`s prioritizes the welfare of our chickens whether under our direct care or
under the care of our contract growers," end quote.
Chris do you think this investigation at Prince Poultry forced anyone to make any real changes?
FRATES: Well, I`ll tell you, Jane, we talked to Pilgrim`s. We called them up. We said this is your grower. This is somebody who works for you. And
what they told us was essentially, out of an abundance of caution they retrained this grower and his employees. And they talk about the fact that
the treatment of these animals are very important to their core beliefs of what they believe as a company.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, here`s my question. The lawmakers are trying to pass AG-gag laws to criminalize the investigations. Why aren`t they
trying to pass laws to criminalize the cruelty that the investigations keep uncovering at farms all across America?
FRATES: Well, when I asked that question, I approached one of these lawmakers in North Carolina and wanted to ask him, why are you pushing
these things? And we didn`t get very far. But if you look at it from Tim Prince`s perspective, he thought he was hiring a college intern, help her
out with some credits. And it turns out here she`s an activist from an animal rights group in Washington, D.C. He says she took that video out of
context. He really felt like it was a gotcha. He worried that it could ruin his business on the land that he runs that his family has been on for
generations.
So activists Jane -- they`ll tell you that this kind of video is really what goes on behind closed doors. That`s why you need to keep these legal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. How do you take a chicken squirming in a pit out of context? It either happened or it didn`t happen. And it`s right there on
camera.
We`re going to take a short break. We`re going to be back with you going after the lawmakers to ask them some questions. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRATES: In North Carolina where this disturbing video was shot, State Senator Brent Jackson introduced a bill that would have made shooting this
type of video a crime. We wanted to ask him why.
Senator Jackson.
BRENT JACKSON, NORTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: Yes.
FRATES: How are you, sir?
JACKSON: I`m fine.
FRATES: Chris Frates from CNN. I was hoping to talk with you, sir.
JACKSON: I don`t have anything to say to CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He didn`t want to talk to you about this. Chris, why do you think legislators in North Carolina and other states want to pass these
gag laws but that gentleman didn`t want to talk to you?
FRATES: Well, you know, I can`t speak for the lawmakers here. We tried to reach out to that senator, we called his office, we went to the senate
floor. He just didn`t want to talk.
But when you talk to animal rights activists they tell me that, you know, pushing for AG-gag laws instead of using those resources to make the
industry more transparent, that`s exactly why these undercover videos are needed. They`re saying instead of cleaning up their act and being
transparent with how they do their business, they`re trying to use their resources as a clout in state capitals to shut people out of them. That`s
why they`re so against barring undercover videos for that reason Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well little Rico here, you know that animals cannot speak for themselves. So if you`re interested, go to Compassion over Killing,
their Web site cok.net and check it out.
You know, I have to say I wonder if the move to criminalize these undercover investigations has backfired. Because there have been a slew of
editorials regarding any so-called AG-gag laws essentially asking, what are you trying to hide?
I want to thank Chris Frates, CNN investigative correspondent, for joining us tonight for his excellent reporting on this issue. And I would urge
other journalists to take a look at this very important issue because once again, they can`t talk for themselves.
Nancy next.
END
