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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Mysterious Disappearance of U.S. Marine`s Pregnant Wife; Did Lacey Spears Kill Her Own Son With Salt?; Drew Peterson, the Killer Next Door
Aired July 16, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, CNN HOST: Breaking news tonight as we bring you exclusive information in the mysterious disappearance of a U.S. Marine`s
pregnant wife. 20-year-old Erin Corwin vanished more than two weeks ago. A witness who may be the last person to see Erin has now come forward and
he is speaking with us tonight in an HLN exclusive. Now, this witness says he saw Erin with a mystery man on the very day she vanished. Could his
story break this mystery wild open? Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks for joining me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing for 17 days, missing Marine wife who`s also three months pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope she`s out there. And I hope she can see this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say her disappearance is suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that she is out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the last people to see her before her disappearance. Get into a red sedan with a man inside.
MICHAEL BEASLEY, EYEWITNESS IN WOMAN DISAPPEARANCE: If she wanted to get out of the car and said, I don`t want to be in this car, she could have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I pray for her to come home safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We all do. Police say Erin was last seen Saturday morning, June 28th. She left her home on the twenty-nine Palms Marine
base. Her husband says she told him she was driving to Joshua Tree National Park about 20 miles away because she wanted to gout out some good
spots and sightsee and take photos ahead of her mom`s upcoming visit. But tonight a witness says about three hours after leaving her home, he saw her
voluntarily getting into a car driven by an unidentified man. Our guest tonight is the man who says he saw Erin at about 10:00 that morning. He
was interviewed by cops two days after she vanished. Now we`re learning that just a couple of hours ago, police showed up at his house to interview
him again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEASLEY: The car was in gear. You know, there was chitting and chatting. It wasn`t even outside the range of her car. If she wanted to get out of
the car and said I don`t want to be in this car, she really, really could have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That man is joining me live in a primetime exclusive tonight. Also, I want to hear from you. What`s your theory of this case?
Call me, 1-877-JVM SAYS, 1-877-586.72.97 or Facebook me. Our expert panel, the lion`s den, ready to debate this mystery. But first, straight out to
Michael Beasley.
Michael, thank you for joining us. I know it`s not easy talking about something like this. But tell us what you say you saw that morning, the
morning Erin disappeared.
BEASLEY: Well, again, you know, thinking back on that morning, you know, you know, it was a good morning for us out here. You know, my niece`s
birthday was (INAUDIBLE). I was out to get - and get some balloons. It was only about 10:30 when I left. And, you know, going down Valley Vista,
I did see the vehicle and learned that it belonged to Erin. You know, I seen a woman getting out of the vehicle. You know, she had a ball cap on.
She had her shades on. It`s hot out here in the desert, you know. It looked suspicious to me because there was another vehicle picking her up.
Out here, people get stuck in the sand all the time. We`re locals. We know everybody out here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this -- Let me ask you this. You said she had shades on, is that correct, Michael?
BEASLEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This woman had shades on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she have a cap on?
BEASLEY: She - like a cap and the blouse - or a hat?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A cap?
BEASLEY: She had a ball cap on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A hat. A ball cap? In other words, a baseball cap?
BEASLEY: Yeah, yeah, it was a dark-colored ball cap. I should say it was a light blue or dark blue with the green on it. You know, from, again,
where the car was parked. And ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was she wearing glasses?
BEASLEY: Yes, sunglasses.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, so now let me ask you a question. I`m just curious. Given that her photo hadn`t been plastered yet, because you saw her the day
before her husband who is right there on the photo reported her missing, I just want to ask you -- how can you be so sure it is this young woman that
you saw?
BEASLEY: Yeah, I never - I`ve never have and never could say that for certain this was Erin. I didn`t learn about whose car it was or nothing
until the following Monday morning. You know, and I seen the picture of her husband on there. Now, a very well possibly it could have been another
woman in that vehicle. It - that I found out. It very well may not have even been her. But I mean ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words what you`re saying is that it wasn`t just the fact that you saw her, this woman with the dark glasses and the
ball cap on, but you saw the car that has later been identified as her car.
BEASLEY: As Erin`s, yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, when was the moment when you said, aha, I think I saw this missing woman?
BEASLEY: Right. It was that following Monday morning. Me and my sister were headed into town. We had to go to the post office and whatnot. And
we didn`t even get out of Baghdad (ph) before the sheriffs were already here. I mean that`s the motor company - and they located her vehicle. And
the sheriffs were there and they were asking everybody in the area, hey, do you guys know anything about this vehicle? And this was right in our own
backyard. So I mean yeah, I noticed it when I did. My sister noticed it when she did. You know, again, you know, Monday morning, the car wasn`t
even moved. It was even on the same spot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get to that, Michael. So, what you`re saying is, you saw her out of her blue Toyota Corolla?
BEASLEY: I did see a woman. I`ve seen the woman. Like you said a second ago, I couldn`t tell for certain it was her. But I did see a woman with a
ball cap on, with glasses on getting out of that blue vehicle --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. But specifically get out of the blue car and get into the mystery red car?
BEASLEY: Ye. Yes, yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because whereas police have identified for sure that is her car that they found abandoned and whereas you say you saw her, a woman
get out of that particular car, wherefore, your are concluding that that is the missing woman because it`s her car.
BEASLEY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I think that- I`m trying to get your line of reasoning. Now, she pulls up in her car. You see her get out of her blue
Toyota Corolla and get into this red car. Describe the man in the red car and describe exactly what happened, her behavior, her affect.
BEASLEY: Again, you know, she willingly got into this vehicle. It looked like a little red Hyundai or a little red Accent. You know, it was a small
car, it was a new - brand -- new car. Again, I wasn`t in the - I was on the way to get balloons for my niece. I wasn`t even thinking about this
situation being at hand. But the driver of the vehicle was a male. You know, it was from afar, not too far away. You couldn`t even have suspects
pick him out of a lineup (CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, describe him as best you can. Because I understand that you had said he had short hair and was short.
BEASLEY: Yeah. He had short hair. It was a male. He had short hair. He wasn`t no taller -- I`m 5`9". So, he couldn`t - he was shorter than me.
Because how I can tell that, is because in a vehicle when you`re sitting down, your (INAUDIBLE) she knows height of a head between the roof of the
car and the window anyway. And he wasn`t that tall.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me ask you a question.
BEASLEY: He wasn`t that tall.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s sitting in the car, he doesn`t get out of the car, right?
BEASLEY: No, not at all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the woman - the woman with the baseball cap and the sunglasses gets out of the blue car and gets into this car. And was there
a discussion? Did she seem coerced?
BEASLEY: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did it seem like an abduction?
BEASLEY: No. Not at all. Nothing suspicious like that at all. Like I said, she looked like she had something in her hand -- nothing like an
overnight bag or - like that. She willingly got into the vehicle. And the car was - still in drive whoever was in the red car. Because they were
pulling off. They never pulled on through the highway right behind me, right or left on that - I knew I was passing them. You know, to me it
looked like somebody broke down - somebody speeds around, picks somebody up. I mean it was no struggle. It was no - somebody was waiting for
somebody to get picked up. That for real, that girl in that vehicle was wanting to get picked up. That`s what I seen, you know. When I`ve seen
that ... VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, so, I just want to - I want to make sure I`m interpreting you correctly, sir. So.
BEASLEY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you in a car or were you on foot when you observed all this?
BEASLEY: I was in my sister`s vehicle. I was in my sister`s vehicle. See, I`m using her vehicle - actually, yea, I was going to get balloons. I
was in a vehicle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you were driving past them in the direction in which the red car was headed?
BEASLEY: Yeah, the way that - the way the blue car was facing, I was driving in that direction. You know, again, the red car was right behind -
that with the trunk of the vehicle pointing like down towards into town, you know, southbound, I think it was. But yeah, I mean like I said, he
pulled around, and waited for her to get in the car. She got in the car and then they did their thing. I didn`t see them pull into the road. She
was waiting to get be picked up. I see - I mean nothing suspicious. Out here, if somebody breaks down, we always stop.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you a question, Michael, how far did all this happen from the Twenty-Nine Palms Marine Base because our understanding is
that ...
BEASLEY: That`s (INAUDIBLE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beg your pardon?
BEASLEY: I was going to say, we are right here, within half a mile from the front gate to the entrance of the Marine base. You know, and this is a
Marine town. We support our troops here. We know it`s a Marine town. I mean we`re all for it. I really would hate to think that someone in the
corps has something involved in this. Or something to discuss with - somebody knows something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, let`s look at this map here where she lived was at the base. I wish we could go back to that map.
BEASLEY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And where the car that she got out of that you say she got out of and that was later found right there is right near the base.
BEASLEY: Not even five minutes from - Yeah, it is. Her car was not five minutes from her front door.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, so, where she said she was going is Joshua Tree, to get to Joshua Tree, the closest place where you intersect with Joshua Tree
has got to be about 20 miles away, right?
BEASLEY: Yeah, if you`re going to J.C. - if you`re going to Joshua, that`s 20 miles away. Her front door to where her car wasn`t the five minutes
away, literally. Because the front gate is right here. That`s - I men by the time you get to the street ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, let me ask you this question, Michael, Michael. She - her husband says she left that morning at 7:00 a.m. to go to Joshua Tree
National Park to scout out some sights for her mom`s upcoming visit. And ...
BEASLEY: OK.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You see her back right near where she left at about 10:30.
BEASLEY: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could she have left, got all the way to Joshua Tree, looked around and gotten back where you ...
BEASLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. There was enough time -- if she told him she was leaving at 7:00 and I seen her when I seen her around
10:30, she could have went (ph) to J.T., just walked around and (INAUDIBLE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, I have other questions for you, Michael. When did cops - did cops accept your story -- when you said, I think I saw this
woman --
BEASLEY: Oh, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You talked to them two days after she vanished, the day that the vehicle was found?
BEASLEY: Yeah.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you told them this whole story?
BEASLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That`s why ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did they act like they believed you or didn`t believe you?
BEASLEY: Oh, no, they believed me. There was nothing to hide out here. I mean they know this. I mean the sheriff`s been out in this area, too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, Michael, Michael, I have another question. They came back today. They came back today. They interviewed you again. Did they
ask you the exact same questions?
BEASLEY: These were different detectives and they asked me the same type of questions. I said, this is - and what I told them was the same thing I
told the sheriff the second day - Monday ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael, OK. Let me ask you - so, they interviewed you again. Would you be willing to take a polygraph?
BEASLEY: Oh. Yeah, I would. If I had to - and say the same truth that I`m telling now, the same truth I told on Monday, I`m not going to lie
about that --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, no, I`m not suggesting you are. Actually, I`m just responding -- on our Facebook, a lot of people have asked, would this
person who`s saying this be willing to take a polygraph?
BEASLEY: Oh, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you said you`d be very willing to take one.
BEASLEY: Yeah. I don`t have nothing to lie about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand that your sister also saw the similar thing. Were you with your sister? She saw it all, too?
BEASLEY: No, no. I wasn`t with her at all. She had seen it on different occasions. We did go on the same road. As she was coming home from work
one morning at the same time and noticed the vehicle, too. I mean we can`t help it. - (INAUDIBLE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me ask you one other question, you found - what you say you saw the vehicle when it was first parked, when this woman got
out of it, to join the man in the red car. But then when cops found it, it was 100 yards off the road, as if it had been hidden?
BEASLEY: Yeah, it was not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: 100 feet off the road. 100 feet off the road.
BEASLEY: Yeah. That`s ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That would indicate somebody moved it.
BEASLEY: And that`s what I was telling the sheriffs. I want to - what I seen Saturday morning, that car was right here. Now, you are telling me
Monday morning that this girl is missing and the car is right there. Now, somebody moved that vehicle. And I know - and I swear on that, too. I`d
take a test on that. I know that vehicle was moved.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
BEASLEY: I gave them that information, the same information to sheriff and they called me, they did a great - they didn`t even look at me.
Everybody`s got here out here looking. We are still looking for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: First of all, Michael, thank you for joining us. Thank you for letting me ask you all these questions. And what we`re going to do
is get our expert panel involved now and a lot of people weighing in on Facebook and trying to figure it out because if what you`re saying is
accurate -- and I know you`re saying this in a way that you feel like this is what I saw. But if it`s accurate, it means they`re searching over there
in Joshua Tree National Park with 50 or more searchers and spending all this time and effort in Joshua National Park and the family is saying, oh,
I hope she got lost in Joshua National Park. Well, that`s not where she got into this car, according to you. She took off and they`re searching in
the wrong place. Stay right there. Now, join this conversation on my Facebook page. And while you`re there, please just give me a like and
share my page with some buddies of yours. We`re just getting started on this. I want to know what you think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even when Michael Beasley is at work, he`s thinking about what he saw on the day Erin Corwin disappeared.
And he`s hoping it`s not the last time someone sees her alive.
BEASLEY: Because I`d hate to think that hey went to this extent to hurt her. She`s a baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that she is out there. It`s just a matter of us trying to figure out exactly where. We are also looking at it as a
potential criminal investigation. So we don`t want to destroy any evidence that we may be able to recover.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who is the man, our exclusive guest, Michael Beasley, says he saw Erin with and get into his car the morning she vanished? He says
the man`s car was a red compact sedan. The man appeared to be shorter than 5`9". He didn`t get out of the car. The witness didn`t get a better look
at him. If police spoke to our guest, the witness, just two days after Erin vanished, why hasn`t the public heard anything about a search for this
man in the red car? In fact, Vinny Parco, private investigator, the missing woman`s family has told reporters they hope she`s lost somewhere in
Joshua National Park, at least 20 miles away. But that almost makes it sound like the family hasn`t been told that somebody saw her get into a car
and take off.
VINNY PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: First of all, look at the facts. She lied to her husband. She never told him she was going to meet somebody. I
don`t know if they checked her cell phone to see if she`s - if it`s active. If they could ping the phone. I don`t know if they checked her passport or
credit cards. It sounds to me like she might have wanted to just get out of the marriage. I don`t - if this guy is a friend of hers, which I
believe he is, then there`s no foul play. I just think that she just decided to leave. That`s my feeling.
ELIZABETH ESPINOSA, CNN ESPANOL ANCHOR: That`s outrageous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a theory. That`s a theory. Wendy Murphy, first of all, I want to say that this young lady is absolutely squeaky clean, no
history of any drugs, of anything. She was three months pregnant, she`s looking forward to her mother who`s her best friend, coming to town.
Before she moved to 29 Palms she`d been living in Oakridge, Tennessee, and never basically left the neighborhood. She`s an innocent type. Not the
type to do something like this.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, look, even the weirdest types shouldn`t get killed. I mean let`s not judge her either way.
PARCO: I`m not judging her.
MURPHY: But, you know, what strikes me is this implication that she was having an affair of some sort. When you`re pregnant, you`re not really in
the mood, if you know what I`m saying, to run away with your boyfriend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree.
MURPHY: Now, having said that, having said that, the interesting thing to me is that the search warrant is looking into two different apartments on
base, not only where she lived with her husband, but a different apartment. Hence, raising the question for me, was there another man not only in the
picture, but in the neighborhood, if you know what I`m saying, and whether he was the father. I mean these are questions that have to be answered.
PARCO: They also have a search warrant for another car with Alaska license plate. We don`t know why, but I would have to assume that could be a
suspect in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, let`s go through some other facts. Did somebody move Erin Corwin`s blue Toyota? Perhaps, to get it off the road and make
it harder to find. This witness we talked to, Michael Beasley and his sister say they first saw the blue Toyota that belongs to Erin fairly close
to the road on the day she vanished. And they say she got out of that car and got into a red car. But when police discovered her car two days later,
the Beasleys say the car was about 100 feet off the road, as if somebody tried to move it to keep it out of sight. Now, Elizabeth Espinoza, CNN
Espanol anchor, if this mystery man was indeed with Erin, it looks like whatever happened, he comes back later and moves that car to get it out of
the area, it tells me he could be a local.
ESPINOSA: Absolutely. It sounds like somebody who would know the area. But I think that`s a really crucial piece of this puzzle. But I think, you
know, if anything, when you look at everything together, when you are piecing this case together, think about this. The family says she`s a
sheltered 19-year-old girl. OK, she`s pregnant. Why would she go to a park by herself? Why would her husband even let her go by herself if, in
fact, he knows and loves her and knows that she`s sheltered and isn`t good with directions? And why doesn`t he call the police immediately that night
when she doesn`t come home, doesn`t call police or report her missing until the day after? I think there`s a lot of red flags in having covered so
many of these missing persons` stories. I will tell you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say.
ESPINOSA: Detectives must be looking at the husband as one of the key ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He is not considered a suspect. So I want to stress that. Not yet.
MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: And, Jane, you know this, a lot of states have a 24-hour requirement before you can even report someone missing. So
the fact that it wasn`t reported until 24 hours after he last saw her isn`t suspicious at all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, let`s ...
ESPINOSA: Oh, come on.
JUDY HO, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Dr. Judy Ho.
HO: I`m sorry, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. You wanted to say something, I think?
HO: Oh, yes. I did. You know, I think, you know, what we know, obviously from the research is that most of the times when people are abducted, it`s
by somebody they know. It`s by somebody they have a relationship with. And so, clearly, I think the pieces of the puzzle are coming together, that
there was no coercion, it`s probably somebody that she knows and has had some kind of relationship with. And I know that we`re hesitant on putting
on what type of relationship it actually is, but I do think that it`s a little bit weird that she told her husband she was going there to look for
activities to do with her mother. Why would that be so off base and why would that involve her getting in the car with somebody and sitting with
them in the car to talk about activities for her mom? So, there`s definitely something missing here. And maybe their marriage just wasn`t
really based on all truth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say - before we - he`s suffering a lot. She`s missing. Their families are suffering. We`re asking questions in
the effort to find her, not to in any way judge either of them. Jack says, why wouldn`t this info be released to the public, especially the car info.
This sounds like a missed chance in the investigation. I have a question about that. Either police know something and they don`t think this is
credible information, which is why I asked the man, would you be willing to take a polygraph. I think it`s curious that they came back today to re-
interview him. Renata (ph), so she was kidnapped or did she go on her own? That`s another good question. There are so many questions. We have got
more on the other side. And we`re going to go to your phones as well. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for the missing Marine wife who`s also three months pregnant. Her husband, Jonathan, reported her missing on
June 29th, the day after she left the Marine Corps base at 7:00 in the morning. Corwin`s disappearance has been labeled suspicious by the San
Bernardino sheriff`s department. But authorities haven`t say this is the result of foul play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You couldn`t have asked for a much better teenager. She`s a little on the timid side. Maybe a little bit on the naive side, but
once she got to know you, you had a friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In February, Erin posted on Facebook that she had had a miscarriage. Then just last month, two weeks before she vanished, she
found out she was pregnant again. But she had not told her mother who was coming to visit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORE HEAVILIN, ERIN`S MOTHER: I don`t really know where they`re coming up with three months because the pregnancy was just confirmed on Father`s Day.
I think she was going to tell me when I got here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Janet on Facebook says, you would think if she was leaving with another man, she would have waited until after her
mom`s visit. That part bothers me. It bothers me, too. Mel Robbins, CNN commentator, legal analyst, you know, the idea that if she gets into a car
with somebody, you can see, she`s an animal lover, she volunteers at a horse shelter. Anybody could have come up with any kind of story to
convince her to get in the car. They could have said, hey, you know, I have a horse that needs to be rescued, will you help me out? And a good-
hearted na
ROBBINS: Of course. And you know, Jane, that is the word her own mother used it. Now, you just said, Jane. Naive. She`s 19 years old, she`s
three months pregnant, she`s in a tiny military town of 25,000 people. Although I have got to tell you, I`m kind of siding with Wendy on this one,
when you look at the warrants, you look for DNA, they`re going to two different residences. When you stack up all the facts - like the way that
my mind is working, is thinking, wow, she met somebody she knew, perhaps she`s involved and something foul play happened. I don`t believe the
scenario that she`s run off with somebody and disappeared from thin earth and hasn`t even told her own mother, her best friend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s what I find odd. And maybe we can get this from Sergeant Hansen, Kansas. What I find odd is that our witness who says
he saw her and the cops aren`t commenting one way or the other, but he says he is willing to take a polygraph, she was wearing a ball cap and
sunglasses. Now, yes, it is hot. But the cap, I don`t know - was she trying to disguise herself? I`m not saying that. I`m just asking a
question. Sergeant Hansen, Kansas, what do you have to say?
SGT. HANSEN: I`m just wondering if they would go back to the Marine base. Because out here at Ft. Riley (ph), they have got cameras going on at their
gates. How come they couldn`t identify what time her car left, match it up to Mr. Beasley`s, because his version of I saw her going one way, doesn`t
kind of match up with me. I just want to know, why don`t they go back and kind of go back and follow the time line of what happened because, you
know, Mr. Beasley kind of seems a little sketchy to me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, what does everybody think? And listen, he came forward. I admire, you know, witnesses for coming forward. A lot
of people don`t want to come forward because then people ask questions about them. So, let me ask you, Dr. Judy Ho, what did you get of his
commentary?
HO: Well, I think it was really nice that he came on the show and shared what he knows. But unfortunately eyewitness testimonies, while they are
also very important, are oftentimes very skewed. The more that he`s telling the story, the more it can change in his mind and it imprints a new
memory. And so, I don`t know how reliable of a witness he is at this point. If he`s our one and only main witness. Because in his own
recollection, and by telling the story, that could have changed several times by now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy?
MURPHY: Wow! This is not a guy who if he doesn`t get the right shade of eye color correct is going to ruin the murder case. OK, he`s just saying
he saw her car which, by the way, has been confirmed as having been moved from the location where he saw it. He has no apparent motive to lie. And
let`s not make him the sketchy one. If he`s telling the truth, the husband is the liar. The husband says she left at 7:00 a.m. The witness says he
saw her one mile down the road at 10:00. Maybe it`s the husband who`s lying, and don`t tell me, oh, he`s not a suspect.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- the fifth amendment right to pretend you`re upset?
PARCO: The witness sound very credible. He`s a regular guy, he`s a neighborhood guy, he has no reason to lie. He lives in --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not the --
PARCO: -- he lives there, he saw the car, and, yes, I think the husband could be a suspect if there`s foul play.
ESPINOSA: Well, yes hello, the husband has a reason to lie here. I mean, think about it, --
Female, Far right, top: Right.
ESPINOSA: He`s controlling the narrative. When people say, `Well, yes, why would she take off?` Or `She was trying to leave,` he`s controlling the
narrative, so consider the source.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second, wait a second.
PARCO: You got a fight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, first of all he`s not being called a suspect and he`s invited on our show any time. But --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- again, he --
MURPHY: He hasn`t been cleared.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it backs up --
MURPHY: Police have not said anything about him being cleared.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- it backs up his story.
MURPHY: The fact that --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then somebody else saw her getting into a strange person`s car --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- dovetails with his story that she left the house. So - -
MURPHY: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- so maybe that makes --
MURPHY: Maybe it was him in the red car. And, Jane, the point I was making is that now he`s trying to -- he`s not trying to skew the story --
there`s no motive -- but this is just what happens to eyewitnesses sometimes, even with the best intentions. So I just don`t know if his
story is credible --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --
MURPHY: -- over time as he is telling it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to stay on top of this. We`re going to have more information for you tomorrow and another witness. So please join us
tomorrow because we`re just getting started on this one. We want to solve this case, these families are suffering.
Now, on the other side, was this woman a loving mother to her young son or a monster who did the unthinkable and poisoned her own child for her own
gain? We have breaking news in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Female (REPORTER): After Garnett`s death, police say Spears moved down to Kentucky to be closer to her family. The people who come to her former
community to buy fresh produce tell us they never stopped mourning. Many still in disbelief.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unimaginable that this happened here. Unimaginable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: This is the place where Lacey Spears lived with her son Garnett at the time of Garnett`s death. His own mother slowly killed him,
poisoning him with an ingredient found in every kitchen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that it was common table salt.
REPORTER: The young mom would tell people Garnett required a feeding tube because of a chronic GI condition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was an incident when she kind of lost control with Garnett.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unimaginable that this happened here. Unimaginable.
STEPHEN RIEBLING, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR LACEY SPEARS: Going forward, the defense of this case will be focused on the relevant facts, not fiction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news in the case of a mother accused of killing her own precious son by poisoning him to death with salt. Lacey
Spears charged with second-degree murder in the death of a five-year-old son Garnett who died in January with toxic levels of sodium in his system.
The 26-year-old mom presented herself on social media as a doting parent courageously fighting for her allegedly sick son who she claimed had been
to the hospital 23 times in one year. But cops say in real life she`s a twisted monster who killed her little boy by poisoning (AUDIO GAP) through
a feeding tube. And just hours ago, there was a crucial hearing in her case, but the mother was a no-show, failing to appear. Then, outside
court, her lawyer scolded everyone to stop pre-judging her. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIEBLING: Despite the widespread attention that this case has received over the last several months, we continue to trust that people will keep an
open mind and not judge Lacey or the facts of this case based on what`s been reported. The truth of the matter is that Lacey has pleaded not
guilty, and with the support of her family, looks forward to her day in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does that mean `don`t pre-judge her?` I would really like somebody to enlighten us. What innocent explanation is there for all
this salt being in this little boy`s system when doctors said it was not metabolically possible for him to produce that level of sodium itself?
"Lions Den" -- you are ready to debate first, right out to HLN producer Alexis Weed. You were in the courtroom today. Take us there. We saw the
aunt of this dead child outside court. She`s the sister of the accused mom. She looked stone-faced, but what was her emotion inside court?
ALEXIS WEED, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE: Well she sat as far as she could away from the reporters -- she didn`t want anything to do with us, and that
included afterwards when we tried to question her. Her name`s Rebecca. Her attorney in his statement afterwards also said that she will be going
through -- Lacey Spears will be going through -- this trial with the support of her family, so this may be a sign of more family showing up in
court to come.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Lacey Spears, the mother, doesn`t show up in court. Do we have any idea why she decided to be a no-show?
WEED: It sounded like the defense wanted her to be there. Her defense attorney stood up in open court and they said, `Look, Judge, we wanted
Lacey to be here. She wanted to be here herself.` And it`s possible that the State didn`t produce her -- perhaps that`s standard procedure in this
particular county. But the defense seemed like they were surprise that she wasn`t there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting. Now, cops say little Garnett, an adorable, precious toddler, wasn`t actually sick at all -- that this mother Lacey was
lying to friends and family about his condition. Listen to what one of Lacey`s former friends -- emphasis on former -- told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well her claim was that he would not eat, you know, therefore the feeding tube. But the boy never, ever had problems with
eating with me. He ate everything from chicken nuggets, French fries to -- we`re country so we eat fried chicken, mashed potatoes and okra -- and I
never -- never did I feed him through a feeding tube. He ate food in his mouth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what about the mom? Would he eat the mother`s food -- did she prepare food and would he eat it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think she tried to give it to him. I think she always wanted to just give him, you know, the feeding tube stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Heard that (ph) -- Eliza -- Elizabeth -- Espinosa. What`s so outrageous about this is, is she said, `Well, my son doesn`t want to eat
and he has all sorts of issues, so I have to use the feeding tube.` You just heard the neighbor say he`d eat anything. He was healthy according to
this neighbor. Now, some say this woman has Munchausen by proxy which is where you fabricate illnesses of other people to get sympathy and praise --
`oh, I`m such a good mother.` But if she has that, that doesn`t mean she`s legally insane and can use the insanity defense does it?
ESPINOSA: No, I don`t think so. And I think, you know, you`re absolutely right. Clearly, you know, when you`ve got testimony from a neighbor who
says, `I`m an eyewitness. I`ve seen this little boy eat food through his mouth. He didn`t need a feeding tube.` I think that feeding tube is going
to be a smoking gun for the prosecution. There`s no question that`s there (ph).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and let me say this, this is what gets me about this case, Wendy Murphy, is that when he went to the hospital, the doctors
confronted this mother and said there`s no way metabolically that this child could have naturally that much sodium, and yet she was reportedly
allowed to stay, unsupervised in the hospital room with him as he got sicker and sicker and ultimately died. Even though there were Department
of Children and Families reports -- people had called DCF on this mother. The hospital doesn`t get that kind of information, so they couldn`t put two
and two together.
MURPHY: Well, I`m not going to give the hospital such a pass at this point because they had access to the kid`s medical records and if they thought
there was something funky going on, they know about this stuff. This is not that rare. I`ve prosecuted these kinds of cases. When a mother is
doing this stuff for attention, you know. You see the kid, the kid looks OK, the mother`s saying he`s half dead -- that doesn`t make sense. So you
can put a video camera in the hospital room which I think works miracles if you`re trying to capture a mother --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MURPHY: -- putting stuff in, having it on tape is wonderful. You know, what bothers me the most about this case is the fact that she looks like
such a nice mom, and a caring, compassionate --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Looks mean zero.
MURPHY: -- because she wants attention? You know, she`s got a -- mothers who are like that -- run around on your front lawn if you need attention,
OK? Leave your kids alone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is a mental illness, Dr. Judy Ho, but I don`t - -
HO: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- I say that in the sense that, yes, just like Jodi Arias was -- had -- borderline personality disorder. Jodi knew right from wrong,
and I believe that there`s evidence that this woman had consciousness of guilt.
ESPINOSA: Right.
HO: You`re absolutely right, Jane, Munchausen by proxy in some ways is like a personality disorder like borderline. And that is the way that this
person pervasively acts. And I believe this mom got a lot of value from being a mother, from being needed and continued to nurse these issues in
her son. GI issues are really not that uncommon among little babies and toddlers, and yet they`d visited the doctor over 50 times in the first
couple of years. It just doesn`t make any sense, and the amount of social media attention that she was trying to get from this as well as her taking
pictures in the hospital when he was being treated for this salt intake --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I mean the whole thing is sick --
HO: -- it`s ridiculous. What kind of mother would be taking photos?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to emphasize this woman is behind bars tonight. She`s not roaming around, that`s for sure. Yes, even the way she announced
his death is so grandiose. It`s phony. "Garnett the great journey onward today." I mean, who says something like that? But we`re going to follow
his case.
Next, the killer next door -- former cop Drew Peterson -- made an oath to serve and protect. But, was he behind the death of two wives? We`re going
to take a fresh look at this case with Peterson`s former attorney and Stacy Peterson, the missing wife number four -- her former pastor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, CONVICTED KILLER OF KATHLEEN SAVIO: It`s mind-boggling, you know, it`s just like people are looking at you under a magnifying glass.
It`s very upsetting. You know, what I had to breakfast -- makes the news where it`s crazy. So, and look at these people -- this is crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kathleen and Stacy had one common denominator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stacy Peterson, his fourth wife, gone in a flash.
D. PETERSON: People looking are looking at me under a magnifying glass. It`s very upsetting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said Drew killed Kathleen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was naked and the bathtub was dry.
LARRY KING, FORMER HOST OF CNN`S "LARRY KING LIVE" SHOW: What happened?
D. PETERSON: Don`t know. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drew Peterson has gone from a person of interest to clearly being a suspect.
D. PETERSON: Please go home. Please leave me alone.
(CROWD SCREAMING): Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
D. PETERSON: I`m going to come camp myself in front of your house and see if you like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did I -- on "The Killer Next Door," a cop who`s supposed to protect and serve is instead convicted of a brutal murder. Back in 2004
Kathleen Savio was found dead in her bathtub. Initially, an autopsy ruled her death an accident. At the time, she was separated from her husband,
Chicago area police sergeant Drew Peterson. Here`s what he claimed happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. PETERSON: Got information that she drowned in the bathtub. I was working, I was the watch commander of the police department and the
previous night, I believe it was, she failed to respond at the door to allow me to bring the children home. The children were with me for the
weekend. That was unusual for her so I started calling her on the phone and I started questioning with the neighbors and they were also alerted
because it was unusual for her. I had neighbors go into the house and they found her dead in the bathtub.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Three and a half years after Kathleen`s death, Drew`s fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, vanishes. It`s only after Stacy`s
disappearance that investigators reopened Kathleen`s case. That`s when they decide her death wasn`t an accident, but instead, a homicide.
Peterson, put on trial, convicted of murdering Kathleen, sentenced to 38 years behind bars, but Stacy`s family still waiting for justice. Peterson,
the only suspect in Stacey`s mysterious disappearance. Did she know his deepest, darkest secret? Joining me now my special guest, Neil Schori,
Stacey`s former pastor. Before she vanished seven years ago, Neil, Stacy came to you and told you some secrets. Tell us those secrets.
NEIL SCHORI, FORMER PASTOR TO STACY PETERSON Right, she did. On August 31st 2007 I met with Stacy at a Starbucks in Bollingbrook, and she told me,
among other things, that Drew had told her that he had killed Kathleen Savio, his third wife.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what else did she tell you? Because she allegedly said things about what happened on that night -- about him dressed in
black, about him not being there and then showing up -- that were very incriminating.
SCHORI: Right. On the night that Kathleen ended up dying. The two went to bed at the same time according to Stacy, and at some point she woke up
in the night and Drew was not there. And she looked all over the house and didn`t see him. So in the wee hours of the morning, Drew ended up coming
back in the house wearing all black and he was carrying a duffel bag with him. And he actually went to the washing machine in their house and he
unloaded the -- he unloaded clothing that was in the duffel bag and he also stripped off his basically all black outfit and put it in the washer. And
he ended up coaching Stacy for hours on what she was supposed to say when the police questioned her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he said something to the effect allegedly of they`re going to think I did it. Nobody even knew at that point what "it" was
because that was the night.
SCHORI: That`s right. That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just stay right there. On the other side, we have the former attorney for Drew Peterson, who still defends this man even as he
sits rotting in jail. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just told me that he thinks he helped dispose of Stacey`s body, because when he helped Drew, that`s what he told me. When
he had helped Drew take something out of the house, it was warm to the touch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That from NBC, the stepbrother of Drew Peterson saying he helped move a barrel warm to the touch on the night of Stacy`s
disappearance. Former attorney for Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky. You insist he`s just unlucky in love and it`s a coincidence?
JOEL BRODKSY, FORMER LEAD ATTORNEY FOR DREW PETERSON: You mean between Stacy and Kathy? Well, Kathy, obviously -- we had a pathologist, one of
the best in the country, Dr. de Maio (ph), who said that Kathy died in an accident. And with Stacy, he hasn`t been charged with anything, any
wrongdoing.
So, you know, looking at the presumption of innocence, one would have to presume that he`s certainly unlucky as far as Stacy running off and he`s
questionably guilty on -- I know he was found guilty by the jury but there`s still some question regarding Kathy`s death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You - -we only have a couple seconds. Why do you stick up for him?
Well, I`ll have to answer that question. He`s a very good attorney. Former lead attorney for Drew Peterson, Joel Brodsky. Does what a lawyer
should do and that`s defend his client no matter what.
Nancy next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
