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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Police Officer Suspended for Threatening Protesters; Michael Brown Shooting
Aired August 20, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t prevent what`s happened, but if I learn lessons from it and then make changes in rules, regulations and procedures, I`ve
done a lot to prevent that next one from happening.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Yet another night of violence between angry protesters and cops over the deadly police shooting of an unarmed 18-year-
old African-American teenager in Ferguson, Missouri. And now breaking news, a shocking -- and I mean shocking -- new video just released appears
to show a cop with his gun pointed, cursing and threatening to kill protesters and journalists last night. Look and listen carefully to what
this officer says and does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t throw anything!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t throw anything! Don`t throw anything!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guns pointed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are up, bro. My hands are up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to kill him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you trying to kill me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your name, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your name is Go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Officer Go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer Go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Yourself is trying to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you guys are watching (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had to be told by another...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He threatened to kill my friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. On my stream, he just said he`s going to -- threatened -- he said he`s going to kill us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. In case you couldn`t make it out, the officer allegedly says, "I`m going to bleeping kill you. Get back, get
back." And then when the cop is asked for his name, he responds to the words to the effect of "I`m officer Go Bleep Yourself."
We`ve just learned moments ago that cop has now been suspended. Is that enough of a punishment? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. And join
the conversation by going to my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page or talk to me on Twitter, @JVM.
Tonight, we`re going to debate the forensics of how Michael Brown died with this gentleman, the man who assisted in his independent autopsy. But
first, out to our fired-up Lion`s Den debate panel. Let`s debate this officer for cursing at protesters and even journalists. Is he an
aberration? Is his behavior an aberration, or is it representative of police attitudes towards the public in that very tense situation? Let`s
start with Mo Ivory, attorney and radio personality.
MO IVORY, ATTORNEY/RADIO PERSONALITY: Jane, it isn`t going to be until we catch the police officers doing this very thing and get it on camera that
anybody is going to believe that this is going on all the time. This is representative of exactly the problem, exactly why what is happening in
Ferguson. And even with what is happening, that officer could do that in the midst of all of this. It is something that is rampant in police
departments across America.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does everybody agree with that, rampant in police departments across America? Brian Claypool?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don`t think you can make a blanket statement.
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CLAYPOOL: Jane -- Jane, this is a highly volatile situation. I`m not defending the officer. But put yourself in his shoes. He`s got people
coming at him from different angles. There`s a lot of anxiety, a lot of tension there. And he probably said something they shouldn`t have. But I
think it`s improper to take the jump that this means that it`s rampant all across the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
IVORY: Why are you making an excuse? Why are you making an excuse...
ELIZABETH ESPINOSA, CNN ESPANOL: I wouldn`t go with a blanket statement...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody`s making excuses.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elizabeth Espinosa.
ESPINOSA: Look, I just want to say this: as a reporter, OK, you can`t make that blanket statement. But it is evidence of bad apples that exist...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s not. No. Everyone`s being ridiculous here.
ESPINOSA: No, it`s not being ridiculous. It`s on video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because...
ESPINOSA: It goes to the training. This is a small town, and these officers clearly need better training. And the ones that are burned out,
pull them out. Otherwise, you`re going to get this.
IVORY: This happens in big towns. This happens in small towns.
CLAYPOOL: Just look at the video. Just look at the video.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at the same time. Hold on! Hold on. OK.
IVORY: This happens in small towns and in big towns. I understand that it might not be everybody, but this happens a lot of places.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Seema Iyer, criminal defense attorney, speak.
SEEMA IYER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, it`s not that big of a deal. Everybody curses; everybody has emotions. The problem is the threat. I
agree the threat is where the crux of the argument is, where the officer misbehaved and also that that behavior is often rampant in the police
department. But, cursing, come on, relax, everybody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, OK, look, excuse me, but the problem I have is he`s pointing a gun. He`s pointing a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s pointing a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only (ph) a rifle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me. A rifle. A rifle, a weapon. I am not a weapons expert. I`m the first to admit it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But now you`re getting right...
(CROSSTALK)
CLAYPOOL: Jane...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jane -- Jane -- Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Hold on. Let`s -- I want to bring in, I want to introduce Crystal Wright, editor of ConservativeBlackChick.com. I thought
that was an interesting name. And proceed. Proceed, my dear.
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well -- well, I`m not an expert either. But everybody seems to be making sweeping
generalizations that, oh, the cops -- this is a rampant problem in police forces all over the United States. I don`t see the other panelists who
took that position saying that the riots are a rampant problem, that one rioter is indicative of everything on the ground. However, we have seen
tons of video of rioters at night looting.
But the reason why the cop pulled out his gun is because you have a lot of confusion going out -- going on at night. You have journalists egging on
the police officer, as we saw. Do I think it`s appropriate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Egging on the police officer?
WRIGHT: Yes, he was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Let me bring in another factor here.
WRIGHT: Excuse me. I let you finish. I let everybody else finish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on.
WRIGHT: Pointing a gun at somebody is not cool.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is laughable.
WRIGHT: The cursing is not cool. And here`s the thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
WRIGHT: Why are protesters out at night anyway? If they really want to have -- if they`re not up to no good and trying to loot and engage in
criminal behavior, why be out at nighttime?
ESPINOSA: Why are protesters out at nighttime?
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second! Crystal Wright, do you go out at night? Are you saying people shouldn`t go out at night?
WRIGHT: Actually, I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... a vampire movie. Wow.
WRIGHT: Guess what I don`t do, Jane? I don`t loiter on the street at night. I don`t loiter on the street at night.
IVORY: Protesting is now loitering? The right to protest under our Constitution is now considered loitering because a dead black boy was
laying in the street?
WRIGHT: Dr. King -- Dr. King did not protest at night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
IVORY: Please don`t give your antiquated examples. OK?
WRIGHT: It`s not antiquated.
IVORY: We are talking about Michael Brown -- we are talking about Michael Brown being shot in the middle of the street...
WRIGHT: Right.
IVORY: ... and the protest that ensued.
WRIGHT: We are.
IVORY: The police are now responsible for bringing calm. Pointing a weapon in a reporter`s face...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A rifle.
IVORY: ... and telling them that "I`m going to F`ing kill you" is not a way to keep the peace.
CLAYPOOL: Hey, Mo. Mo. Hey, Mo.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. One at a time, please. Talk one at a time or I get in trouble, OK, guys?
CLAYPOOL: Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian -- Brian.
CLAYPOOL: Mo, is it possible that this officer had his safety engaged on the rifle? If so, I don`t have a problem with that, then.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CLAYPOOL: Because it`s a deterrent. There have been days of rioting in that street.
IVORY: I know you don`t. I know you don`t and a bunch of other officers don`t either. That`s the very problem we have in America, that you and you
and you do not have a problem with...
CLAYPOOL: No. The problem is rioting and looting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
CLAYPOOL: The problem is rioting and looting. That`s the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. I`ve got to get something else in here. Because some people have accused the protesters of goading police.
Now cops say demonstrators hurled water bottles filled with urine at authorities last night. At least 47 people were arrested. We`re talking
about a very small group of people. But do we have to take that into account, because honestly, if somebody threw a water bottle filled with
urine at me, I`d be pretty bleeped off, if you know what I mean? And I`ll throw that to Elizabeth Espinosa.
ESPINOSA: You know what? And thank you, because you`re absolutely right. They would -- it would upset you. But it doesn`t constitute or give you
the right to get your rifle and point it in a protester`s direction or even a journalist.
And to say that the journalists are egging on the cops is ridiculous. If you`ve not been a reporter, if you haven`t been out there, you don`t know
what you`re talking about. They`re doing the best that they can...
WRIGHT: You have not been out there. And throwing a Molotov -- Excuse me. Throwing a Molotov...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Excuse me.
ESPINOSA: Let me tell you something. We put our lives at risk at well.
WRIGHT: Throwing a Molotov...
ESPINOSA: That`s the job that we take on, and we have to maintain ourselves, as well.
WRIGHT: OK, Jane.
ESPINOSA: We have to be accurate to provide the best information to you, the viewer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on, Elizabeth Espinosa. You`ve given your opinion as a journalist. I want to go back to Crystal Wright, editor,
ConservativeBlackChick.com. One at a time, folks, seriously because then I get in trouble otherwise, if everybody talks at once. Go ahead, Crystal.
WRIGHT: OK. What I`m saying is, you talked about urine, Jane. I think you just mentioned urine being thrown at officers.
Captain Ron Johnson, who`s with the St. Louis [SIC] State patrol, he`s taken over helping to secure the streets. He chastised the public
yesterday, I believe, and again today, and he said, "You guys are not going to throw Molotov cocktails at my officers. And you`re not -- and
journalists, stop glamorizing -- glamorizing the rioters."
So I think for you to say that -- for others to suggest that it`s just urine being thrown at protesters is wrong. And frankly, if I was an
officer and I had a journalist and civilians charging me, I may point my gun at them and say, "You need to back off."
So you guys are sensationalizing this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I hope you`d get fired.
WRIGHT: One thing I`d like to say.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
WRIGHT: Wait. Real quick. Real quick. One final thing and then I`ll shut up.
Martin Luther King is not antiquated. Martin Luther King Jr., and my parents were part of his generation. And my father reminded me last night.
Martin Luther King Jr. advocated for nonviolent protests during the day. There is no reason to be out at night unless you`re trying to do something
to confuse the police and loot and riot. Absolutely no reason.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve said your piece. Now let -- let -- OK, yes, Seema answer. And then we`re going to take a break. Go ahead.
IYER: Jane, these protesters may work during the day. They may be law- abiding citizens. We can`t quantify everybody ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
IYER: ... by the same adjective. So maybe they work all day. They want to show support for their town, for Michael Brown. And they go out after
work. What is so wrong with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have to take a short break. I have a hashtag Twitter campaign that I`m going to launch on the show in just a
couple of minutes. And I`ll tell you about it. So stay right there, because I believe it will be the solution to something like this happening
again.
And that would be the best way, I think, to honor the loss of life here, is to prevent a situation like this from occurring again.
On the other side, we`re going to talk to the man who was in the room when the autopsy on Michael Brown was being done. And he is going to give us
incredible information about the six shots. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via phone): Police are now running down the block. Water bottles are flying through the air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via phone): It`s totally dissolved. The night was -- had been ending peacefully. Tonight was ending peacefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Those are protesters last night. I`ve got to tell you, we are editing right now new video that just come in of that
officer who was suspended for cursing and threatening, allegedly, at least it seemed that way, right there, at protesters and a journalist. And we`re
going to bring it to you in a second. They`re bleeping it out, literally, in the edit room right now.
Meantime, all of this is over, of course, the shooting of Michael Brown, the 18-year-old African-American, who was unarmed, by Police Officer
Wilson. Now Brown`s autopsy, at least six bullet wounds, four in the arm and two in the head, plus three wounds that could be reentry points. We`re
going to show you a whole bunch of simulations and graphics that illustrate what happened to this 18-year-old. There you go.
Straight out to forensic consultant Shawn Parcells. Shawn, you were actually in the room assisting Dr. Baden during this independent autopsy.
What do the bullet wounds -- you`ve got four on the arm, one in an eye and one at the top of the head. What do they show? And I understand you`ve
got some kind of skull with you tonight or not?
SHAWN PARCELLS, FORENSIC CONSULTANT: I do. I do. And before I get to that, let me explain this.
We -- you`re correct, we have four bullet wounds to the arm. We have a graze wound here, a deep graze wound. We have an entrance wound here. We
have a graze wound here, and we have an entrance wound here.
Now, going to the entrance wound that`s on the forearm, it went in and came out on the interior part of the arm. The one that went in the upper arm
right here went in and actually came out right around the armpit area. And the analysis of that tells us that the shot that went in the right upper
arm definitely came from the front.
Now, the graze wounds and the wound to the right forearm, as I said at the press conference, your arm is a very mobile part of your body. So I can
put my arm up like this and get the same type of shots coming in this direction. I can put my arm this way. That part of my arm is exposed. I
can have that arm hanging down, and it`s facing my back; and the shot could have come from behind...
VELEZ-MITCHELL; Let me -- let me jump in for one second and explain to our viewers...
PARCELLS: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I think we`ve got also some video of Michael Brown`s body lying there in the street, which we can show you. The reason this is
important is the whole question is, was this a justified shooting or unjustified by the police officer?
There is the body of Michael Brown lying on the street. The gentleman to the right, the man to the right, the uniform to the right is Officer
Wilson, it`s believed, the man who shot him.
So the whole question is, what was Michael Brown doing? Was he fleeing the officer? Was he raising his hands as some witnesses say? Or was he
charging at the officer as the officer claims, according to his good friend?
Now, let`s get to the head wound, the kill wound. And if you could show me the dummy that you brought -- or I don`t know if it`s an actual skull, but
there it is. Explain to me and to our viewers the kill wound, because it was only the one that hit him in the top of the head that you say is the
fatal wound or the kill wound. Go for it.
PARCELLS: OK. Disclaimer, this is a model skull, by the way.
The wound that went into the top of the head at the very apex here and the wound that went in the right forehead just above the right eye, I want to
be clear. They were not traveling this way. They were traveling in a downward direction like this and like this.
And we know from the abrasions that the bullet created going into the skin that it was entering the skin in that particular direction which, through
our analysis, we can`t tell still whether Mike Brown was surrendering, rushing, walking away. We don`t know that.
But with the head wounds, the angle and trajectory that we have, it`s more consistent that those two wounds came last, and it was as Mike Brown was
crumbling to the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So let me bring in my panel, because you s say crumbling to the ground. Some others may say that his head was like this,
because maybe he was charging at the officer. I don`t know. I wasn`t there. But let`s debate it, starting with Brian Claypool, criminal defense
attorney.
CLAYPOOL: Well, Jane, I think the -- the entry wounds here actually support the proposition that Mike Brown was either falling forward or he
was falling to the ground, or like you said, his head was charging down.
But here`s an important fact we don`t have. We don`t have the topography of where the shooting took place. In other words, what, Dr. Parcells can
help us. Is there any downward...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, you were looking at -- look, you`re looking at the street. We saw the street a second ago. It`s a flat street. It`s like
any other street. Proceed.
CLAYPOOL: Right. OK. If it`s flat, then, Jane, and he -- I`ve re-enacted several shootings. And the downward trajectory above the right eye clearly
supports the proposition that he is like -- he`s in a -- he`s going like this; he`s falling forward, in order to get that downward trajectory.
So it then becomes a factual issue. Has he been hit before that with a bullet and he`s falling forward, or is he actually charging toward the
officer? And we don`t know that yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Mo Ivory, here`s the problem. To me, there`s no way to conclusively draw a conclusion from this...
IVORY: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... because the fact is that he`s 6`4", and he`s taller than the officer. And so if he`s like this when the bullet is entering, it
could mean any number of things. And that`s why we need -- and I`ll get to that in a second. But first answer.
IVORY: OK. Well, I think that we can -- I think that`s true. And I don`t think that we have all the facts to make a 100 percent assessment that it
was either charging or falling.
But just like the last guest just said, when a person -- we have to figure out what -- when the bullets happened. We already know that he had been
shot four times before he was shot two times, which were the fatal -- the last fatal shot and the shot to the eye. So it would seem that, if you had
gotten shot four times prior to that, that it would be very hard for you to be charging in that manner, but more likely that you would be falling in
that manner.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One thing I`d like to ask, though, is it possible with the four shots to the arm first that -- and I`m just asking because we have to
debate all possibilities -- that that could have been an attempt by the officer to shoot him without shooting to kill and that as he got closer
because his friend Josie said the final shot was the one right her...
IVORY: Well, Josie wasn`t there. So I want to take Josie out of the equation. A second party who says something that somebody told her is not
going to be valid in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
CLAYPOOL: Jane -- Jane...
IVORY: I want to say, I think you`re right, though, Jane. I don`t think we can know until we have an account of exactly what happened.
CLAYPOOL: Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me go to Crystal Wright. You`ve had a chance to talk -- Crystal.
WRIGHT: No, I haven`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was talking to Brian. Go ahead, Crystal, this is your chance. Go for it.
WRIGHT: OK. Sorry. I was confused; I couldn`t hear you.
Well, I think that the six bullet wounds look excessive to me. However, as Dr. Baden pointed out in his press conference to reporters, there`s still
not enough evidence to re-enact, from what I heard him say, the exact shooting and what occurred. He could have been lunging forward. He could
have been surrendering, as everyone pointed out.
But what nobody has talked about is the assistant chief of police said -- who alleges that -- this is according to another news outlet that came in
today, this new information -- he alleges that he took Officer Wilson to the emergency room, because he was beat to nearly unconscious in a struggle
with Michael Brown.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s absolutely no confirmation of that. We`ve got to show the video of the officer...
WRIGHT: Jane -- Jane -- Jane, I let you finish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no evidence of that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely no evidence of that.
WRIGHT: Jane, FOX News is reporting it. You can`t be selective.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Let me just point out one thing...
WRIGHT: Can I finish, please?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. You`ve said your piece.
WRIGHT: Because I let everybody -- you let everybody else grandstand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s video of the officer to the right...
WRIGHT: Jane -- Jane, that`s not the video of the scuffle, Jane. And if you`re going to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is the video of the officer, is my understanding. Shot by a witness.
WRIGHT: You cannot -- you can`t pick and choose which facts you want to talk about on the program. I`m a guest. I don`t think it`s fair that you
sensationalize this whole thing.
IVORY: She doesn`t sensationalize.
WRIGHT: I don`t think you`re interested in the facts.
IVORY: ... ballistics.
(CROSSTALK)
WRIGHT: You`ve already condemned Officer Wilson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not condemning him. I just said maybe the reason that he had a bullet to the head is because Michael Brown might have been
charging him. Hold on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
WRIGHT: I gave other evidence, and you`re telling me I`m wrong, because it`s coming from another news organization.
ESPINOSA: It`s not evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We haven`t confirmed it is what I have a legal obligation to say. What you have just said has not been independently confirmed by
CNN. That`s my job. That`s what I`m doing. Seema, go.
IYER: I want to corroborate something that Crystal said. And I actually have "The New York Times" right in front of me from today. And it does say
that law enforcement officials in Missouri -- which I believe includes state, federal and local -- did observe an injury to Officer Wilson.
IVORY: Right, but not that he was knocked unconscious. Not that he was knocked unconscious.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let`s take a break and we`re going to continue the debate on the other side. Stay right there. I`ve got more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Brown!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were walking peacefully down to the mall and a young lady was hit in her face with smoke bombs and teargas. And we were
peaceful. This is unacceptable and this is not the law. This is unacceptable. Until we get justice, we will not stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve just gotten in, just turned around new video of that officer who has been suspended for, it appears, threatening allegedly and
pointing his gun at protesters and at least one reporter.
Let`s show you the sound and listen to it. Then we have a producer who was there when it all happened. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your gun down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop pointing it. Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun down. Stand down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put that gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s his name? I want it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put that gun away. Take that gun away from him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your gun down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get that gun away from him, Sergeant. Please Sergeant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take his gun away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. CNN producer Steve Castlebaum, you were apparently right there when all this happened. Tell us what happened.
STEVE CASTLEBAUM, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): It was a very confusing and chaotic moment because the crowd started running minutes before that --
seconds actually -- before that because a bottle had been thrown towards police and police moved into the crowd to try and locate the person who
threw the bottle. And everybody scattered in every direction. Protesters and bad actors were mixed in with police.
As I was trying to get away from where this was all going on and trying to get to an area that I felt was safe, this officer had what appeared to be a
semiautomatic rifle drawn and he was pointing it in all directions.
And I talked about this last night. I heard some very threatening language. I didn`t quote him word for word because he was obviously using
expletives. But he was threatening to kill people if they didn`t stay away. It was one of the most disturbing moments I have heard during all
this.
I should point out, though, that throughout the protest in Ferguson, there have been people within the crowd who have been talking about killing cops
as well. So this language had been going both ways.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, some have pointed out that there had been plastic bottles filled with urine thrown at police and others have said that some
people were goading officers. Did you see anything of that nature?
CASTLEBAUM: Throughout all of these protests, while the overwhelming majority of people have been listening to police and have been dealing with
them in a respectful way, there have been a lot of bad actors mixed in with the crowd who have been goading police, absolutely. We know there was an
incident where two people were in the car as they drove by headquarters and they said they were going to kill an officer last night.
So, yes, the language has been coming out of the crowd as well from some bad actors. But this was the first time I saw up close a police officer
with his weapon drawn, pointed at all of us, walked through the video shot and using such horrible, threatening language.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you feel afraid -- did you feel that perhaps -- I mean I`m trying to see the expression on this officer but he looks agitated.
People -- officers are human beings. Sometimes a situation like this can have somebody have what you call maybe a meltdown, an emotional breakdown
of some sort. Did you get any sense that he was maybe unstable?
CASTLEBAUM: You know, I can`t get inside of his head. What I can say is that the crowd suddenly mixed in with the police. The lines had become
completely blurred. I could imagine that this man suddenly felt like he was surrounded by individuals and it wasn`t until some other police
officers came by -- somebody asked him to put down his weapon, you know, point his weapon down but he didn`t put it down.
Look, it`s a scary situation when all of a sudden you have lots of people running at you, you know there have been shots throughout the night. Every
night almost you hear some occasional gunfire on the side street or off in the distance. Everybody`s on edge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, thank you, Steve, for taking the time to talk to us. Stay safe out there. Excellent work.
On the other side of the break, my hashtag proposed solution. My hashtag proposed solution. Had the officer, Officer Wilson who shot Michael Brown
had a badge cam on, we would have seen exactly what happened. We would know what would happen, what had happened and we wouldn`t be in this
situation right now.
Stay right there. I`m going to make a call to action on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got one to the very top of the head, the apex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all about peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a peace march anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer was taken to the hospital and treated for a swollen face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got one that entered just above the right eyebrow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s my firstborn son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your gun down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop pointing it man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop pointing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun down. Stand down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take that gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s his name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take that gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Caught on camera because there was a camera. You know what infuriates me, you have all this militarization of police with all
this costly weaponry -- we`re talking tanks, we`re talking these very sophisticated weapons. But Ferguson police claim they did not have the
money to put a little camera on the badge of the officer who shot Michael Brown -- ok. His squad car had no dashcam. Buying and installing a
dashcam costs about $3,000. You want to take a guess at what all this overtime for police is costing taxpayers? You want to take a guess at what
all that equipment is costing taxpayers? This is reactive policing.
This controversy could have been avoided with one inexpensive camera right on the officer`s body. We would have known what happened. We wouldn`t
have to be debating it.
So tonight, I`m issuing a call to action, from the President of the United States, the attorney general on down, here`s my call. I`m saying right
now, every single squad car in America should have a dash-cam. Every single police officer in uniform in the United States of America should
have a badge cam.
And here`s the campaign I`m starting right now with your help, #badgecamsnow -- I`m tweeting about it. Go to my Twitter, @JVM. Go to my
Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook. Let`s get this campaign going. #badgecamsnow -- ok. That`s the answer to this.
Elizabeth Espinosa, you`re a reporter out there, what do you think?
ESPINOSA: I love it. And you know, I`m just re-tweeting. I`m doing my own little call to action, you know, asking people to do this. And please
re-tweet it out there.
You know what -- you`re absolutely right because we heard the expert testimony from the coroner`s office who says they can`t even determine
based on the entry points, exit points, if in fact he was surrendering or was he charging the officer. So guess what -- it`s going to be the police
officer`s version against the dead man.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinnie Parco, you are a famous private eye. You see it all. You`ve investigated and captured criminals. Look at what all this is
costing. Look at this. Look at this mayhem and it could have all been avoided with one little camera right here. Go ahead.
VINNIE PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: We use button cams -- we use button cams all the time in our business. My investigators -- they`re very small
-- they`re not expensive. Maybe the one for the police might be a little bit more expensive, might be more heavy duty. But it`s not really a big
ticket item. They should have them to protect the police officer also. I mean the police officers have to be protected, too, and the public. And
they can see what`s going on with a camera and it has audio so you could listen to it also.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Twitter exploding. If a cop will do this with cameras present, imagine what folks live with when there are no cameras. Twitter,
"Cameras everywhere are not the solution. Cops can turn them off or a glitch could occur."
Well let me say this I don`t think that the police officer in the squad car should be able to turn them off. And if they do turn them off, that`s a
problem.
Listen, the shooting of Michael Brown has been a lightning rod to talk about race in this country. Some people, like conservative talk show host
Larry Elder, think racism is being overblown, that it`s not really a problem.
Listen. And we`ll debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY ELDER, RADIO HOST: I think we`ve been training black people to think that racism is a bigger deal. And I think the reason that the left wants
that is because of votes and power. As long as black people believe that race -- racism is a major problem in America, you have that 95 percent
monolithic black vote without which the Democratic Party cannot survive.
So you have the Jesses and the Als and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Harry Reid constantly bringing up race cards, talking about Republicans raising a
war against black people and so forth. So black people have been trained - - surprise, surprise -- people in Ferguson believe that the racist criminal justice system is oppressing them because Obama and Eric Holder --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you saying that racism is not a major problem in this country?
ELDER: No, it is not a major problem in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Out to the "Lion`s Den", Mo Ivory, attorney, is he right? Is racism exaggerated by the media?
IVORY: Absolutely not. I mean listen, I`m not surprised that Larry Elder thinks that, as I`m not surprised that some of your panelists will agree
with that also. But as long as we need to have badge cams now campaigns because the police have to be policed. That`s the reason why we need that,
Jane, because the police have to be policed so that people don`t die in the middle of the streets. Racism is as alive as it ever was if not worst
right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crystal Wright -- ok, thank you.
CLAYPOOL: Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crystal Wright, conservativeblackchick.com I want to give you a chance to respond.
WRIGHT: I think it`s really interesting that when liberal black panelists come on, they think they can read my mind. Because I`m black, I`m supposed
to think a certain way. Guess what -- two things, racism is very much alive and well. I`m sure your other panelists might be shocked to hear me
say that.
However, Larry is right. The word racist gets diluted when liberals teach blacks to cry racism for every problem that plagues us. We can`t get a job
-- racism. We commit more crimes than any other group in this country -- racism.
IVORY: You should be ashamed of yourself.
WRIGHT: We have 70 percent -- excuse me, I`m not ashamed. Let me finish. I let you finish, you let me finish. 70 percent of black babies are born
out of wedlock -- racist. President Obama can`t get the job done so white people are racist. You guys are not --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time out, time out -- this is not a political segment here. We want to keep this focus. Let me focus back on this. This is --
this could actually protect the officer.
WRIGHT: I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s say and hypothetically the officer was charged. It would protect the officer. You know what it does? It shows the truth
objectively. It doesn`t take sides.
WRIGHT: Can I answer the question, please? Everybody`s talking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what -- we have six panelists. You just spoke for a good period of time. Now I want to give somebody else like Brian
Claypool --
WRIGHT: You`re cutting me off when I`m making a point --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not. There are six people --
WRIGHT: You are.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You made a point. And now we`re going to Brian Claypool who wants to make his point. Go ahead -- quickly.
CLAYPOOL: Thank you. I want to get back to police brutality cases. I`m a civil rights lawyer. I`ve had at least a dozen shooting death cases. They
run the gamut -- white people, Hispanic people and black people. I really respectfully disagree with Mo that within the context of excessive force by
police officers, it`s not a racial issue. It is an epidemic and it covers all races.
But I think the dash-cams would help. I`ve had many cases where if we have those, we could really know the truth. And I will leave you with this,
anytime there`s a police shooting case, the deck of cards is stacked against the victim and their family because the police control the
investigation and they control the evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you agree with me that every single police officer in America should have a badge cam, join my Twitter campaign, #badgecamsnow.
Go to my @JVM Twitter, re-tweet it. And go to my Facebook. Together, we can send a message all the way up to the highest office in this land that
this would be the solution -- much cheaper than all of the chaos going on in Ferguson night after night after night. Just think of the overtime for
the cops. Who pays for that? Taxpayers.
Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone who`s not credentialed media, you need to disperse immediately.
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: Anyone who has been at these protests understands that there`s a dangerous dynamic in the night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your gun down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop pointing it man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop pointing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun down. Stand down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take that gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s his name?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That cop suspended, out of control because there was a camera that caught it. And this #badgecamsnow. I can tell you right now
#badgecamsnow, trending number three on Twitter. Join our campaign. Let`s make sure this doesn`t happen again -- #badgecamsnow. Go to my @JVM
Twitter account or join me at Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook.
Let`s sends a message to the President, attorney general and everybody in charge of this country instead of spending millions and millions of dollars
on tanks and all sorts of weapons of war, put a little cheap camera. I monitor my elderly mother on a camera. I can see her at any time while
she`s sitting on her easy chair. There`s no need for this in this day and age.
Straight out to the phone lines -- Lindsey, D.C., you`ve been waiting for a long time -- what have you got to say?
LINDSEY, D.C. (via telephone): Thanks, Jane. I`m so sick and tired of this whole thing being about race. Two nights ago in Orlando, Florida a
woman was shot by cops. She was a Hispanic woman. No rioting, no looting, and sure as heck no comment from the President or Eric Holder. This race
stuff is ridiculous.
Autumn Pascuale killed by two teenagers over a fight. No comment from the President, no comment from Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. It is ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you`ve made some very, very provocative comments there.
Let`s go to Seema Iyer, criminal defense attorney out of New York City -- your thoughts.
IYER: Nancy -- I`m sorry -- Jane they want badge cams, if they want transparency, the only issue is that now at this point I think even for the
suspects they are going to have to be on their best behavior. So it`s for both sides that the transparency will, in fact, work.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me look at this issue. You have Larry Elder who I know, and, you know, a very intelligent man saying race is not a problem,
nothing to see here. On the other end of the spectrum, famous movie director Spike Lee who I don`t know but I`ve seen his movies pretty much
says black men are being targeted. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPIKE LEE, DIRECTOR: I just think there`s a war on the black male and it`s tearing the country apart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mo Ivory -- what do you think? Who is right?
IVORY: I agree 100 percent with Spike. And I don`t always agree with everything that he says. On this one he`s 100 percent right. This is not
a problem that started with Michael Brown. I mean we can name countless victims, black men unarmed back to Yusef Hawkins (ph) in Bensonhurst (ph)
up to Eric Garner a couple of weeks ago, now to Michael Brown. This is not new. I want all my gosh -- why do people say it`s racism? Why wouldn`t we
say it`s racism?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are out of time. I want to thank my panel. Don`t blame me because the hour is up. Please Crystal I want to have you back.
I want to have everybody on this panel back. We`re just about out of time.
But I want to leave you with this -- Ok. #badgecamsnow. We created it on this show thanks to Luke Burke and we`re going to make this a reality.
Nancy next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
