Return to Transcripts main page

Jane Velez-Mitchell

New Details Come to Light of Michael Brown Shooting; Beating in Missouri: Revenge for Michael Brown?; Was Indiana Mom Abducted from Bar?; Justin Bieber in Trouble Again?;

Aired August 26, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... killed her. And no conviction is justice for what happened to her. But ironically, the science that she was working on,

in fact, helped to put away her killer.

JOEY JACKSON, HOST: Breaking news tonight, a shocking new twist in the mystery surrounding the moment that unarmed African-American teenager

Michael Brown was riddled with bullets and killed at the hands of Missouri police officer. You know what? We`ve got brand-new extraordinary audio of

the actual gunshots.

Now, these shots appeared to illustrate exactly how many times Officer Darren Wilson shot at Michael Brown. Will this potentially key piece of

evidence hold the clues about the very last moment of this deadly confrontation?

A pleasant good evening to you. I`m Joey Jackson filling in for my good friend, Jane Velez-Mitchell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s at least how many times 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot.

DORIAN JOHNSON, EYEWITNESS: He fired several more shots.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN`S FAMILY: Their baby was executed in broad daylight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He ran for his life. They shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had a choice and you chose the wrong one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or was he backing away?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing you can say is going to ever make me understand what happened, ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: An autopsy revealed that Michael Brown was shot at least six times. But tonight, CNN has obtained audio, allegedly of the very gunshots

fired by Officer Wilson. And according to an audio expert, you hear at least ten gunshots, a cluster of six. There`s a gap, and that`s followed

by at least four more gunshots.

Now, we can`t independently confirm the authenticity of the recording. The shooting was recorded unintentionally. And that was by a man who just

happened to be on a video chat at the time near the shooting scene. You`ll hear him talking and in the background, you`ll hear quick volleys of shots

and more gunshots. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are pretty. You`re so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNSHOTS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now you hear six shots. And that`s followed by a three-second pause, and that`s followed by at least four more gunshots. Take a listen

to this a little more closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty. You are so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNSHOTS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: So will this audiotape shake up the investigation into Michael Brown`s death? I want to hear from you. Call me at 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

That`s 1-877-586-7297. And please feel free to join our conversation on Facebook and Twitter, as well.

Got to go straight out to the Lion`s Den. They`re fired up and ready to debate tonight`s big question: Which side does this startling new audio

favor? Does it favor the prosecution or the defense?

Lisa Bonner, I know you live in the community. You`re a product of the community. You were born and raised in the community. Tell us what your

position is.

LISA BONNER, ATTORNEY: My position is unequivocally that this helps the prosecution.

From the very beginning, the witnesses were saying that there was gunfire, a pause and then followed by more gun -- excuse me, followed by more

gunfire. And in this instance, you unequivocally have a situation where the officer paused -- which means intent. And people seem to forget that

you don`t need a very long period of premeditation for intent. Intent can be a nanosecond. In this second, he paused; he thought about it, and he

shot again. I think it helps the prosecution.

JACKSON: Just an instant, Lisa. So I ask you, Philip Holloway. You are a former police officer. You`re an attorney, as well. What are your views

with regard to the shots, the pause and more shots? Prosecution or does it favor the defense?

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, ATTORNEY: Joey, this favors whatever camp you`re already in. If you believe that the shooting was justified, then this falls into

that camp. If you feel that the shooting was not justified, you can fit it into your narrative, as well.

Because this sounds to me like every police shooting range I`ve ever been to for target practice. Police are taught to shoot to eliminate a threat.

They are taught to keep shooting until that threat is eliminated.

JACKSON: Indeed they do. Now Brian Claypool, my friend, let`s take a look at this. If you -- if you think and you analyze this, obviously the

distance away, Brian, is going to play big. So how big will that distance play, meaning the distance that Michael Brown was from Darren Wilson at the

time the cluster of shots were fired, the pause and then more shots?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Joey, it`s crucial. Over the past decade, I`ve been involved in ten officer-involved shootings involving

death. And in every one of those cases, Joey, one of the first things you have to do is determine a distance that the shooting officer was from the

victim at the time the shots are fired to determine whether there`s an immediate threat posed to the officer.

So you can`t jump the gun yet. You need more information here, because you could have a situation, Joey, where Wilson shoots six times; there`s a gap

because he might reasonably think that Mike Brown is still charging towards him. Then he shoots again.

If Mike Brown is within about ten feet of Wilson when he shoots, then it`s a better argument for Wilson to be shooting. If he`s outside what we call

this kill zone, which is within that ten feet parameter, then -- then it`s possibly against Wilson, because why is he then continuing to shoot if Mike

Brown is not really posing an immediate threat and great harm?

JACKSON: Lisa, you`re jumping out of your seat. Before I get to Saindon, let me ask you. Tell us what`s on your mind.

BONNER; I`ve been to Canfield Green Apartments. And there is no way that there can be any type of reasonable threat against a police officer. There

is one line -- one road of egress in and egress out.

So there is no way that this man was running towards a police officer. He was running away from the police officer into the subdivision. And there

is no way that you can say that he was charging at this officer.

And first of all, when is the last time you`ve heard of an unarmed black teen that is going to run into the line of fire, into a police officer?

Black teens don`t do that. We run away from them.

JACKSON: Wendy Murphy. Wendy Murphy, I know you`re champing at the bit. Take it away.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: There`s still too much we don`t know. Yes, he could have been charging, because -- what did he do right before

this? He actually had the guts -- I don`t know if guts is the right word - - to literally charge a cop who was trying to get out of his cruiser. Boom! He slams him back in his cruiser. That`s not normal behavior for

any colored person.

JACKSON: Wendy...

MURPHY: I do think it matters how many shots there are.

JACKSON: Let me...

MURPHY: It does matter how far away this guy was. But what`s reasonable depends on the circumstances. And this cop didn`t know he wasn`t armed

when he shot. Let`s be clear about that.

JACKSON: I got you, Wendy.

Now Saindon, though, it does come down to the issue, Kelly Saindon, of reasonableness and what was necessary at the time. And so back to the

original question regarding the volley of shots. Is the argument going to be that it was unreasonable and unnecessary by the prosecution. But Kelly,

will the defense counter that there was an immediate threat such that the shots needed to be fired, were fired and are justified? What say you,

Kelly?

KELLY SAINDON, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You are exactly right. The prosecution is going to say this guy overstepped; he was undertrained; he was

overzealous and had the intent to kill when it wasn`t necessary. He wasn`t in imminent danger.

The defense is going to flip the script and say it was reasonable at the time. He had already been threatened. He had a fractured eye socket; he

was beat up. He knows this guy was coming at him. He`s concerned he might be on drugs. And he did what he was trained to do: neutralize the threat.

So it could be either way.

JACKSON: Those are the arguments. Absolutely.

Now, this is the very first time that we`re hearing that there could be -- these could be what we showed you, the actual gunshots.

Now, you might remember that an alleged friend of Officer Wilson, she called into a radio show to tell his side of the story. She claims that

Officer Wilson fired the deadly shots only after Michael Brown bum-rushed him. Listen to what she told Radio America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSIE, FRIEND OF OFFICER WILSON (VIA PHONE): So he goes in reverse back to them, tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I

think he said Michael did. And then he opened his car again, tried to get out. And as he stands up, Michael just bum-rushes him, just shoves him

back into his car. Punches him in the face. And then, of course, Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabs the gun. At one point, he`s got the gun

fully turned against his hip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: But a key witness who was right there when the teen was shot and killed by Officer Darren Wilson, he says it was unprovoked. And he also

said that Michael Brown was shot while surrendering with his hands up. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: He shot again. And once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and he put his hands in the air and he started to get down. But the

officer still approached with his weapon drawn, and he fired several more shots. And my friend died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Back out to the Lion`s Den. The prosecution is going to say that ten shots, boy, it`s excessive. It`s unreasonable. And you know what?

The defense is going to argue that Officer Wilson, he`s bum-rushed. He was shooting in fear for his life.

So the big question becomes, what argument is going to carry the day, Brian Claypool? What say you?

CLAYPOOL: Joey, let`s back up a little bit, too. Because Wendy`s right. Determining what happened with a police shooting is like putting a

crossword puzzle together. You`ve got all these pieces. You can`t take one piece of that puzzle, like we`re doing today and then make a conclusive

determination: Is it justified or not? You need to know facts.

For example, was there an assault by Michael Brown on Officer Wilson? If there was, this now turns into what`s called a fleeing felon situation.

There`s a case I`m sure you`re aware of, Joey, in 1985, Tennessee versus Garner. Assault on a police officer in Missouri is an aggravated felony.

That escalates the situation. And Wilson arguably can use, then, lethal force on an unarmed suspect if he has a reasonable fear of being harmed or

the public being harmed. That`s another important fact that we`ve got to consider here.

JACKSON: Very -- very important. Very important. But let me get to this, Brian. And Lisa, I`ll ask you to weigh in on this. Philip, I know you

want in, too. But it comes down to a very critical issue. And it`s very narrow. What was the immediacy of the threat at the time the deadly shots

were fired? Isn`t that what this is all about, Lisa Bonner?

BONNER: I agree 100 percent. When you have someone who is at a distance of 10 to 35 feet, I don`t think that that is justified as an immediate

threat. And again, I have to say, we`re looking at the body right here, and the body is turned around facing the officer.

It is important to remember that Michael Brown was running the other way. He turned to run into the subdivision, away from the officer. And there

were at least 10 to 11 shots fired. This is a subdivision on a Saturday morning. This is an apartment subdivision on a Saturday morning, which

means children are out playing.

There was no deadly force that was necessary. I don`t care how you frame it.

JACKSON: Hold on. Hold up.

MURPHY: You`re misstating the facts.

JACKSON: Philip. Let me just ask Philip Holloway.

MURPHY: You`re misstating the facts.

JACKSON: All right. Go ahead, Wendy. Go ahead.

MURPHY: I`m just saying, you can`t say he was running away. That`s just wrong. He was shot only...

BONNER: He was running into the subdivision. It`s clear. That`s not debatable.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: One at a time. One at a time. I`ve got my big gavel here. Go ahead, Wendy.

MURPHY: Can I just say two things? One, we know he was shot in the front, he was not running away. We know he was not shot like this. So let`s just

get over that. I don`t think that matters that much anyway.

I wrote a piece last week for "The Patriot Ledger." It`s at PatriotLedger.com, where I say I don`t really particularly care that some

of the witnesses lied, in my opinion, about what the circumstances were. And I think it`s possible this cop was angry about being punched in the

face, and that is not justification for deadly force. If you act because you`re angry...

JACKSON: That -- Wendy, I`ve got to ask Philip Holloway this.

HOLLOWAY: ... doesn`t have all the facts about

JACKSON: Because we get on the break, Philip, I have to ask you. You`re a former officer. What about that? Do you think the officer could have been

stressed? It`s a stressful job. Could have faced a lot of anxiety? Under what circumstance, in your view, could this have been justified?

And to Wendy`s point, we don`t know if the shots were from the front, based upon the nature of the arms and their movement. Address that, Philip.

HOLLOWAY: The $64,000 question, as you know, Joey, is was the officer reasonably in fear of life or limb at the time he began to employ deadly

force.

Officers are trained that they employ deadly force under those circumstances. It`s reasonable and trained for them to stop and to pause,

to reassess that threat. And if it continues and they continue firing -- I want to say that the fleeing felon rule would not apply. It was aggregated

by the Supreme Court.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Kelly Saindon, I want to get you in when we come back.

But we`re just getting started. Now, ill this-newly released audio of Michael Brown change this investigation completely?

We`re going to let you know when we come back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen again as you hear a series of gunshots fired and then a pause followed by another round of shots.

UNIDENTIFIED FEM ALE: You are pretty. You are so fine...

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; Not just a number of gunshots. It`s how they`re fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR BROWN FAMILY: We will not accept three-fifths justice. We will demand equal justice for Michael Brown Jr.!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now, two men were beaten badly, and that was in Mississippi, allegedly in retaliation for Michael Brown`s death.

Ralph Weems and a friend were assaulted early Saturday morning in the parking lot of a Huddle House restaurant, allegedly by a group of African-

American men. Now, it happened in West Point, Mississippi. That`s more than 400 miles from Ferguson, Missouri. That, of course, is where Michael

Brown was killed.

Now, according to some published reports, the victims were warned that it wasn`t a safe place for whites, because people were very upset about

Michael Brown`s shooting. But some witnesses say that`s not the case, that the men were attacked because they were making racial slurs towards the

African-American customers.

The father of one of those victims talked to WREG. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fourteen stitches above and below his eye. He has a blood clot in his other eye. But I`m not talking to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now, last night, 22-year-old Cortez McMillan, he was arrested and charged with aggravated assault. Police told us that more arrests, well,

they`re pending. A grand jury will ultimately determine whether or not the suspects are charged are a hate crime.

Now I ask you, Lion`s Den, going back to you, obviously I`ll start with you, Wendy. This has major implications, right? The reality is that I

think this was felt the world over. We can`t have instances like this in the event that it did happen, can we?

MURPHY: No. I mean, please, it`s just -- it`s time to stop the anger and the rage.

However, the one thing I will say is -- and this kind of vindictive retaliation stuff, no matter what the reason, is so unacceptable. But what

it tells me is that when people don`t believe in their government, when they don`t believe that justice is fair -- and my women and children

victims feel this way -- they rise up. They become lawmakers themselves. They take matters into their own hands.

So it is a warning sign to the legal system in this country, if you don`t treat people with dignity and equality and respect, they will rise up. And

this is part of what that is all about.

JACKSON: Kelly, I`ll go to you on the issue. I mean, obviously, you have a community that`s in uproar there and certainly there`s a search of

justice. Yesterday we saw the funeral. There was an ask for -- by the family for peace and calm. What happens next? Do you think based upon the

piecemeal release of information that that`s inflaming the community? Why not get it all out there so people know there`s transparency? Kelly

Saindon.

SAINDON: Well, the problem is I think that this is such a racially charged issue, the media all going down there. We have Al Sharpton going down

there. And it seems to me that instead of calming things, they incensed it; they made it worse.

And the People in the community wanted to protest peacefully that weren`t allowed to. They feel that it`s further discrimination against them, and

the police are super scrutinized right now. So it is a very charged issue. For you to say get all the facts out there, I don`t think they`re all known

yet. The problem is we have witnesses that may or may not have lied.

So until there`s some sort of credibility determining factor, you can`t just disseminate information, because it will incense people. There`s

always going to be somebody in this type of situation that takes the opposite side, somebody thinks it`s a racial issue and someone will think

it`s cops doing their job.

JACKSON: Very fair point, though. It absolutely is.

Listen to this. According to forensic audio experts, in the new audiotape, you hear a series of gunshots fired, right We`ve been talking about that.

A roughly three-second pause, followed by another round of shots. Remember, several witnesses have come forward, and they described seeing a

pause during the shooting. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the police approached Michael, maybe not more than three feet away, he then shot again. Michael then turned around like

almost in awe like how he had just gotten shot that many times. So he looked down and then he just tried to put his arms up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was also a guy from the officer pausing as he was shooting. Because like I say, I`m in the window, and he shoots a

couple of times. And by the time I get outside, he`s shooting again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: You know, we have Amy from Illinois. I know the Lion`s Den, great panel. You`re waiting to weigh in. And we`ve got you. But let`s go

to Amy. Amy, what`s your comment from Illinois?

CALLER: Good evening. I have a couple, and I`ll make it quick.

JACKSON: Sure.

CALLER: First of all, I don`t want to come down like I`m just on the side of the police officer because I think that everything needs to be put out

there, and it needs to be very transparent.

However, the media is only showing Michael as a child. They keep referring to him as a kid. He`s not a kid. He was an adult. He was 18 years old.

He has quite the record. He obviously was very violent. The only pictures that they`re showing of Michael online or on TV are these cute little

pictures of his face.

JACKSON: OK. I got you, Amy.

CALLER: You see the picture of him -- they don`t show him with the gun in his hand, a wad of money in his mouth and, you know, liquor sitting in

front of him. He`s not that innocent a child. And he obviously very clearly attacked the officer.

We can never know what`s in the officer`s brain unless you are in that position. And with that said, let me just say this -- that there are many

people that are on drugs or other things that cannot be taken down sometimes with shooting. It`s very possible that this -- you see it all

the time. This officer may have been in fear for his life. He may not have. He could have been wrong. It`s a very real possibility on both

ends.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

CALLER: But there are people who are running their own agendas, Sharpton, Jackson. Everybody`s running their own agendas.

JACKSON: Well, Amy, I appreciate that. And you bring up a different point of view. Certainly there are both sides here. Lisa, weigh in on that.

BOLLER: I mean, this caller just underscores the importance that I`ve been saying about this case. This case is racially divided. And we don`t have

all the facts. We don`t know if Michael Brown was on drugs. We don`t know if he was charging at the officer. So to draw that conclusion is a little

bit unfair.

And regarding everything else about the police officer, we don`t know, because the only person that we have heard from and the only evidence we

have heard from was his friend`s statement.

JACKSON: I got you.

BOLLER: And of course that`s going to match the police officer because that`s what the police officer told her.

JACKSON: But you know what, Lisa? We`re ultimately going to find out.

BOLLER: We are, indeed.

JACKSON: The Lion`s Den stays with us. You better believe that. A lot more of Michael Brown, a lot more on that audio when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Darren Wilson remains in hiding, supporters for the 28-year-old Ferguson police officer are getting more vocal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We once again declare that we steadfastly believe that Officer Darren Wilson`s actions on August 9 were warranted and justified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now it feels as though everyone has weighed in on this controversy. Everyone except -- except Officer Darren Wilson himself. So

where is he? Presumably he`s in hiding, in fear for his safety. But his supporters, well, they`ve grown very vocal. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officer Wilson`s actions on August 9th were warranted and justified. And he has our unwavering support. You want my name? My

name is Darren Wilson. We are Darren Wilson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now Wilson`s supporters have raised -- listen to this --about $400,000 for his defense. Brian Claypool, surprised by this?

CLAYPOOL: I`m not surprised at all, Joey. All the cases I`ve been involved in, it`s an uphill battle if you are a victim of police brutality,

especially if you`re African-American. Because people across the country have a presumption in their heart that police officers are out there to do

good things and they`re out there to protect the public and they are always in very dangerous situations having to make split-second decisions. So in

a 100-yard dash, Joey, police officers will always get, like, a 10- to 20- yard head start. So I`m not surprised at all.

JACKSON: Now, Philip, you know, I got to you on this. And what I want to talk to you about Philip in particular is, not only what Brian mentioned

which is a great point but also about the issue of the conflicting witness accounts and how is that going to play either in favor of Officer Wilson or

against Officer Wilson?

HOLLOWAY: That`s a very good question. I don`t purport to know what happened, unlike a lot of people who have legal training who think that

they do know exactly what happened. I admit that I don`t. I wasn`t there.

But when I went to the police academy in 1988 and then again when I went to law school, I even wrote a law school -- law review article about it.

Unfortunately it didn`t get published but I`ve also learned about it in my own law practice. Eyewitness accounts of dramatic events or stressful

events are notoriously inaccurate.

CNN`s Erin Burnett recently did something on this and she interviewed Dr. Elizabeth Loftus who is the foremost expert in the field of eyewitness

testimony in the United States and perhaps the world. And what she says is that eyewitness accounts oftentimes are not accurate, especially when they

are describing a stressful event.

JACKSON: And that`s why, Kelly Saindon, we have to have forensic evidence in this case, right?

SAINDON: You are absolutely correct because we`re going to have people on both sides that are going to argue different things.

JACKSON: You better believe it. That`s always the case. Great "Lion`s Den" panel. A lot more coming up.

And next, pivoting for Michael Brown, a family`s desperate search for a missing mom. We`ll talk to Kristy Kelley`s father. Is her disappearance

linked to cases of other missing women?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHY SCALES, MOTHER OF KRISTY KELLEY: My granddaughter told me today -- because I had to go see my grandbabies. I hadn`t seen them for five days.

My grandbaby told me, she said, "Nene, you need to take me back to my daddy`s, because you need to go look for my mommy." She said, "I don`t

want you to have to stay here and play with me. I want you to go look for my mommy."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K. SCALES: I am a nervous wreck. This is my daughter. I will do whatever I have to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundreds have joined in the search.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities believe it`s Kelley`s jeep going by moments before she went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re putting out these fliers that have her name, pictures and other stuff related to her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Employees are being asked to stay safe, to leave work together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brave and difficult fight of holding on to hope.

TODD SCALES, FATHER OF KRISTY KELLEY: We want her back so bad.

K. SCALES: We`re not giving up. We won`t give up, Kristy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Never giving up. Tonight, there are new developments in the search for the missing mother, Kristy Kelley. Now, she vanished more than

a week ago from an Indiana bar. Volunteers are taking to the streets. They`re searching. They`re all over the place and even the skies using a

drone to look for any sign of Kristy. The drone is reportedly giving them a bird`s-eye view of the two open areas that are very difficult to reach.

The 27-year-old was last seen about 11 days ago when she left the bar with some friends. Her cell phone was found inside the bathroom and the last

trace of Kristy`s crime (ph) came from a surveillance camera down the street that picked up what looks like Kristy`s car in the early morning

hours. It`s about 20 minutes after she was last seen at the bar. That`s where the trail ends. It goes cold. No trace of Kristy`s car or of Kristy

herself.

Here`s what the sheriff told ABC`s "Good Morning America".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF BRETT KRUSE, WARRICK COUNTY POLICE: There`s been no activity on her bank accounts. No evidence pointing towards any type of a struggle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: So what happened to this mother of two? Straight out to Kristy`s dad, that`s Todd Scales. Mr. Scales, thank you so much for being here. We

can`t even begin to think or imagine what you`re going through right now, though we appreciate you joining us. Could you tell us what the latest is

in the search for your daughter?

T. SCALES (via telephone): We`re still searching. Still looking just everywhere we can think of, basically with a grid map, going, you know,

just throughout the county, area by area. We have, as of yesterday, started using a drone that`s become available to us to cover large areas of

acreage getting, of course, permission from the owners to use that drone in their areas.

JACKSON: Sure. Now that has to be a major development because you`re using technology. Can you tell us, Mr. Scales, how supportive has the

community been, how about the law enforcement community? Is the FBI involved? Can you take us through that and what their efforts have been in

joining your family?

T. SCALES: Sure. The community has been just wonderful. We`ve had a great number of people helping to look for her. We`re planning on having a

large search tomorrow afternoon. People with ATVs are going to hit some different locations. Saturday we`re going to have a volunteer group from

Kentucky who are coming up with K-9 units and sonar to continue to search yet other areas. Warrick County has a lot of old coal mine lands, sparse

farmlands. We`ll just continue the search.

We hope to get a lot of volunteers. Last week, we had around 400 volunteers. Hopefully this weekend, we`ll have the same and cover yet more

areas.

JACKSON: Absolutely. I would suspect that you`re working very closely with local law enforcement. Are there briefings that you have with law

enforcement and with the community about where to search or any other clues that are coming in?

T. SCALES: Yes. Oh, yes, we`re contacting law enforcement and working together with them. So it`s more of a coordinated effort.

JACKSON: And it certainly needs to be. Could you talk to us a little bit, Mr. Scales about the children? How are you dealing with them and keeping

their morale? I mean you yourself have to, I know, stay wrong for your family but how are the kids doing now?

T. SCALES: They`re doing pretty well. They definitely miss their mommy. They want her back. And we basically told them, we will find her. She`s

out there. And, you know, we won`t stop looking. We have promised them that we will find her.

JACKSON: Yes, it`s about persistence. Well, you know, we`re all over it. We certainly wish you and your family well, Mr. Scales. Thank you so much

for joining us and anything that we can do to bring about her appearance, we`re here to do that. Thank you very much, ok?

T. SCALES: Thank you for your help with this.

JACKSON: Absolutely. God bless you. Have a good night -- ok.

And now Boonville, Indiana, it`s a small town of about 6,000 people. The drive from the bar that Kristy was at the time is less than two miles from

her home. Now, it should have only taken a few minutes for her to get home.

The surveillance footage appears to show Kristy`s SUV, in fact, heading in the direction of her house. If that is, in fact, the car -- that`s a

silver 2003 Nissan X-terra -- you see it there. And the license plate you also see S as in Sam, Z as in zebra, F as in Frank, 858. We ask anyone

with information to please call the Warrick County Sheriff`s Office. And that`s at 812-897-6180. You see it on your screen right there. Please

help in the situation.

We`re fortunate also to have Marc Klaas. You know Marc, you`re at the forefront of cases like this. And in this particular case Marc, we see the

drones being put to very favorable use. When you look at drones, how effective could it be in a missing persons` case like this?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: As long as they have written permission from landowners to look at their property, they can be very

useful for wide-open spaces. As long as they`re low enough and the images are clear enough, they can be very effective. However, they can`t see

under brush, they can`t see through trees. So there is only a limited usefulness of them. But certainly it`s much, much better than nothing.

And it`s a far step from where we were even five years ago.

JACKSON: Absolutely. And, Marc, in this particular instance, what else needs to happen in order to bring about her appearance? You`ve been

involved in so many cases like this. Is there something else that could be done, whether it`s technology, whether it`s additional law enforcement,

whether it`s joining neighboring communities, neighboring states? What has to happen and what`s most effective in an investigation like this?

KLAAS: Well, they`re doing an amazing job. I mean they`ve got a great response from the community itself. I would suggest that they need to be

careful to brief their searchers, to let them know exactly what it is that they`re looking for, not to touch any potential evidence, simply to take

pictures of it and report it immediately to law enforcement.

They should effectively debrief the searchers at the end of each search day. They should carefully map out the search areas so that people aren`t

searching too much or too little. They should make sure that their searchers are dressed appropriately and that everybody goes out with water.

And then finally, I would suggest also that they connect with the search for Joelle Lockwood. You know, she disappeared a month earlier only 18

miles away. I think that if you had two search efforts looking for both women, you would have certainly more eyes and ears on the ground and you

might be more effective in your effort. Other than that, I think they`re doing an amazing job, though.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Now last week, Jane spoke to Kristy`s heartbroken mother. And here`s what she says in the moments leading up to Kristy`s

disappearance what happened. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K. SCALES: She was just sitting there at the bar chitchatting with her friend, the bartender. The bartender had to go back and kind of learn how

to fill out deposit slips. So when she came back in, she noticed Kristy wasn`t at the bar. Didn`t really think much of it and then I believe when

she come back after she finished up, Kristy was still gone. She went out in the parking lot, checked and her vehicle was also gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: Now Kristy`s case has stunning similarities to the disappearance of 30-year-old Joelle Lockwood. You heard Marc Klaas mention her just

moments. She vanished on July 9th in Evansville, Indiana. She was reportedly last seen walking alone. Now Kristy disappeared only five weeks

later, just 18 miles away. Both women are about the same age, both have two children and they were even wearing a similar outfit when they

vanished.

And police are saying that Joelle and Kristy had been drinking but despite all these similarities, the police say, you know what -- they don`t think

the cases are connected. And former police officer Philip Holloway with very few clues, I ask you about what happened in this case, how could the

police draw the conclusion that there may not be a connection -- Philip?

HOLLOWAY: I don`t know what the police know. They certainly haven`t given everything that they do know. I for one question, though, how you can

conclude that they were not connected.

As you said, Joey, there are so many things that are similar. I think it`s probably premature to rule that out. There`s the close proximity, the fact

that they were both out drinking, late at night, dressed similarly, both Caucasian females. Lots of things are so similar that I would have to at

least consider the possibility that they`re connected.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Wendy, I have to get -- Wendy Murphy, I have to get your perspective on this about what your thoughts are.

MURPHY: Joey, I don`t agree that those things are similarities that matter. Yes, they`re both female and they have kids and they were

drinking, whatever. A million people a night probably have exactly those same criteria. The only reason I would say we have to respect the law

enforcement opinion that they`re not related is that do know things we don`t know, including, for example, who they suspect is responsible.

The thing that makes me the most curious in Kristy`s case is her cell phone in the bathroom. Why would her car be driving past a Tasty Freeze while

her cell phone was in the bathroom? And where was it in the bathroom? Does it indicate she left it there by accident or was it flung in the sense

that somebody grabbed her? That -- I would like to know.

JACKSON: Million-dollar question Wendy. All right. Thank you so much, panel.

Now, guess what? Guess who`s back? Back in trouble, that is -- all right. We`re talking about Justin Bieber. Did Justin Bieber`s date with Selena

Gomez include an altercation with a fan? We`re going to tell you when we come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what did you say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You watch it man.

BIEBER: That did you say?

(EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

BIEBER: I like to keep things private. Like you got to have some sort of privacy, or else you`re going to end up -- everyone`s going to know

everything about you and you`re not going to have anything for yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: So Justin Bieber maybe in hot water again. Cops were called to an L.A. area Dave and Buster`s just last night around 9:30 p.m. And

according to TMZ, Justin lunged at a fan who was trying to take photos and a video of Justin and his ex-girlfriend Selena Gomez, and then tried to

take the fan`s phone.

Now a TMZ source says that the fan wants to press charges, possibly for attempted battery, theft and robbery. Police told us, you know what, no

crime occurred. They say someone called the LAPD to complain that the superstar security team was blocking their attempt to video Justin. Either

way this could mean trouble for the singer, who`s still on probation for vandalizing his former neighbor`s house.

Straight out to pop culture expert Stuart Brazell; so Stuart I ask you. Do you think Bieber is going to get in trouble for this alleged altercation?

STUART BRAZELL, POP CULTURE EXPERT: Oh my goodness. I get so torn about Justin Bieber. Part of me feels sorry for him. I`m like he`s just a kid

he`s 20. Another part of me is going come on. At this point how are you still making these mistakes?

I have to say, though, I thought he was in anger management classes. I don`t think these classes are working very well, Joey.

JACKSON: Apparently not. Joslyn, what`s going on, Joslyn Davis?

JOSLYN DAVIS, HOST OV CLEVVERTV: I think this is a whole lot of nothing. I mean it`s a sad, sad day when Justin Bieber cannot even play ski ball in

peace. You know, this guy is constantly being recorded every time he leaves his house. And the fact of the matter is no crime occurred here.

JACKSON: So why is he in Dave and Buster`s? I guess celebrities can go everywhere they want. But you know, Joslyn, that if he`s a celeb, he`s

going to get recorded and that picture`s going to be taken.

DAVIS: Yes, it`s kind of like the golden handcuffs, right? I mean there are so many highs of being a big celebrity like Justin Bieber is, but

there`s also the reality that he can`t leave his house. This was a big grand opening event at Dave and Buster`s. He went there with his on-again,

off-again girlfriend Selena Gomez to just have some fun. And you know what -- it is reality for him that he cannot leave his house without being

recorded by fans and paparazzi.

JACKSON: I feel so, so bad for him Stuart.

BRAZELL: Just on the way here today he`s already had paparazzi drama. He just got rear-ended by a paparazzi today and he`s basically slammed on the

brakes. The paparazzi hit him. And he`s been tweeting saying that he can relate to Princess Diana. So it`s just paparazzi drama for him every day

of the week.

JACKSON: Got to love it. So let`s watch a clip from Justin`s video for the hit song "Beauty and a Beat". It`s from Island Def Jam. Take a look

at this.

(MUSIC)

JACKSON: So here`s Justin`s big problem. He`s still on probation. He was sentenced to two years probation in July after he pled no contest to a

misdemeanor vandalism charge and that was for egging his neighbor`s house. He was also ordered to perform five days of labor, attend anger management

classes, and pay the neighbor over $18,000 in damages.

And so I ask you, Stuart Brazell, if the person he got into this alleged altercation with presses those charges, you know what, even though the

police are saying no crime occurred here, could they not push this to cause trouble for this star?

BRAZELL: I think absolutely. This person is definitely looking for a pay day. Come on. There`s a proven history. Look at what happened with Kanye

and Kim. They know that if they start trouble the celebrity like Justin is going to want to bury this and they`re going to get a nice paycheck.

JACKSON: A big paycheck. So look, Justin was just at the Dave and Buster`s with a very familiar face, the on-again, off-again girlfriend; on-

again and off-again Selena Gomez. Here`s the video for her hit "Come and Get It" from Hollywood Records.

(MUSIC)

JACKSON: Justin and Selena started dating about three years ago and officially broke up last year. Since then there`s been a lot of drama.

You`ve heard that from Joslyn and Stuart. About a month ago Justin got into a fight with the actor Orlando Bloom, the source of their tension of

course, Orlando`s ex-wife Miranda Kerr and allegedly Selena Gomez who was pictured hanging out with Bloom earlier this year.

A couple of weeks ago, Justin posted a photo of himself and Selena at the movies on Instagram. Then deleted it just hours later. Do you think he

was upset because he didn`t want photos of him being taken with Selena to get out? What do you say, Joslyn?

DAVIS: You know, he tends to post tons of photos of him and Selena together then delete them like people aren`t going to see it.

So I think he wants his fans to know he and Selena are still kind of together. She`s definitely still in his life. So I think he wants people

to see these photos. He has to understand that if they go out in public they`re going to be seen.

JACKSON: And I want these fans of JVM to know that you guys are fabulous. Thanks for joining us. It`s a great night.

Nancy Grace is next.

Thanks for being here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END