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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Jodi Arias Gets Permission to Return to Scene of Crime

Aired September 02, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the Jodi Arias trial. We are now learning the infamous murderess has just gotten

permission to go back to the scene of the crime, the very house where she butchered her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander. Outraged critics are calling

this her latest manipulation and part of a methodical, diabolical plan to make a mockery of her upcoming trial to decide if she should live or die by

lethal injection.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge says convicted murderer Jodi Arias can send her private investigator back to the scene of the crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find the defendant, as to count one, first- degree murder, guilty.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER (singing): (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): You cannot say I don`t like that booty.

ARIAS (via phone): Oh, never mind. You do know how to work the booty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once she begins stabbing him, it`s not as if she (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when she stops. She killed him three times over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For sure, she`s going to get convicted. The evidence is there. But I hope they see right through her, and she gets the

death penalty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi was convicted just over a year ago, as we all remember, of murdering her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, by stabbing him

29 times, slitting his throat ear to ear and then shooting him in the head, leaving behind an absolutely gruesome crime scene. We can`t show you the

worst of it, but I`m sure you remember the bloody sink where he bled standing over the sink.

The jury did not buy her claims of self-defense. But they could not decide whether Jodi should live or die. So now we are just days away from

the death penalty retrial. And it seems like Jodi might be continuing her relentless campaign of revenge by trying to put the man she murdered on

trial. Is she representing herself in court so she can make a mockery of everything?

And now she`s weaseled her way, vis-a a private investigator, a private eye, back into Travis Alexander`s bedroom and the bathroom where

she killed him. Even though the current homeowners have told the media, "Leave us alone," stressing a while back, there is absolutely nothing to

see here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we viewed the home, there were things missing. There were faucets missing, showers. There were -- carpet was

missing. And so we thought the home had been vandalized.

Everything is new in the home. The dishwasher is new in the home. The carpet is new in the home. The paint is new. The shower is new. The

faucets are new. The baseboards are new.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what the heck is her investigator going to see? And what do you think of Jodi`s latest move? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-

877-586-7297. And join the conversation. Go to my Facebook page, Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook. Talk to me on Twitter.

Our Lion`s Den panel is fired up and ready to debate. But first to my special guest. You were a dear friend of victim Travis Alexander. But you

also spent time with Jodi. Julie Christopher, good evening. What is your reaction to Jodi`s court victory, where her private eye gets to go back to

the home where Jodi butchered Travis? Is this part of her never-ending obsession with this man?

JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER (via phone): It is. It`s like it is. And I tell you what. I spoke to her the first time I met

her, and that`s years ago. This is not a person, Jane. This is somebody, a body without a soul. Don`t you forget that. She is a body without a

soul. She is a monster.

And she is making his story in her own way, which she wants you to do so people remember her. And, you know, what we need to focus on is Travis,

Travis as the beautiful person that he was, for sure -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and today. It`s just a horrible, horrible thing, you know, that now...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Imagine -- imagine how the family of Travis Alexander feels. They`ve been waiting for justice since 2008. And now they see this

manipulation going on, where she`s representing herself in court as her own attorney and literally going toe to toe with prosecutor Juan Martinez in

court today. And now she gets to send her private eye to the home where she murdered Travis.

What does this request to revisit the crime scene say about her strategy? The court in this penalty phase retrial is supposed to start

with the assumption that she is guilty of premeditated first-degree murder.

But will Jodi -- is this signal that Jodi is taking the opportunity to try to retry the case all over again and make that claim that she made the

first time around that, "Oh, Travis attacked me and he said he was going to kill me and I had to defend myself"? You remember she claimed Travis

lunged at her first. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: ... the photos. As I moved the camera, it slipped out of my hand. Travis flipped out again. I was crouching, but he lifted me up as

he was screaming that I was a stupid idiot. And he body slammed me again on the tile.

I rolled off to my left and began to run down the hallway, and I could hear him follow -- I mean, I could hear his footsteps chasing me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Claypool, criminal defense attorney, you already heard the people who live in that home say there is absolutely

nothing to see. The investigators took out walls. They took out the carpet. They took out even the faucets. What does it indicate about her

strategy that she wants her private eye to go to this crime scene?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, remember, this is a death penalty case, and Jodi Arias is going to do anything possible to

try to save her life. So I don`t think this is manipulation. I think this is a desperate woman who`s trying to come up with a plan.

And here`s her plan. She`s going to hire an investigator to go over there. And he`s going to take some kind of measurements of, maybe in the

bathroom -- who knows where? But he`s going to try to come up and concoct some theory that maybe she was responding to a traumatic event, that he

attacked her first, and let me finish. Because I think you`re right. What she`s going to do -- and if I was representing her, I would try to retry...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, Jane, I disagree with Brian.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

CLAYPOOL: Well, let me finish, though.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. You finish quickly...

CLAYPOOL: Let me ask you this. How can you separate in a death penalty case what led up to the murder and -- to determine whether she

should die? You can`t separate those two in this case, because you have a brand-new jury. So she`s got to retry the facts that led up to the murder

to put her mental health and her diminished capacity at issue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first let me say one thing. You don`t need to go back to the house to find out how far it is from the toilet to the

bedroom. There`s something called a schematic. Every house has one. If you`ve ever done a remodel, which I`ve done too many of in my life, there`s

floor plans. You don`t need to go back into the house. It`s nonsense.

Areva Martin, take it away.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think this is total manipulation on the part of Jodi Arias. Everything we`ve seen from this woman is a part of her

manipulative scheme. And in this instance, Jane, she wants to gain some kind of unfair advantage. She wants to go back and retry the facts of this

case.

But this judge is smarter than that. This jury is going to be confined to looking at whether she should get the death penalty or not.

They`re not going to decide whether this was self-defense. That`s already been decided. Premeditated murder, she has to live with that.

But she wants to curry some kind of favor, get the jurors to feel sympathetic towards her. Very manipulative on her part, and I think just a

shame the way she`s allowed -- without even a college degree, a law degree -- to step into a case. Death-penalty cases are the most difficult in our

criminal justice system. So to have a woman with no legal training representing herself, I think she`s just setting herself up to file an

appeal if the death penalty is decided by these jurors.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my question. Let me -- let me put out my theory. My theory is this decision to try to send her private eye --

and if she could go herself, if she wasn`t behind bars, she certainly would -- is all part of her continuing obsession with Travis Alexander. And her

continuing campaign of revenge. She murdered him in an act of revenge. And the revenge continues, even though he`s dead.

She assassinated his character during the trial, calling him everything from a pedophile to an abuser when there was absolutely no

evidence. She didn`t just kill Travis Alexander. She stabbed him 29 times. She slit his throat ear to ear back down to the spine. Sawed it --

sawed it! And then she put a bullet in his head.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

MARTINEZ: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: You`re the one that did this, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And you`re the same individual that lied about all this, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist, in my book "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias," I posit that she killed him

because he was going to take another woman, a good Mormon girl, to a high- profile vacation in Cancun where all their mutual friends were going to be. He rejected her, and she couldn`t handle it.

But she remained obsessed with him. She left him voicemails after she murdered him. She went back to the crime scene on the way to go to the

memorial service. Is this part of her continuing obsession with this man?

JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I`ll take it a step further. Is she diabolical like everyone is saying? Yes, of course. But is that being

a diabolical based on being delusional? Absolutely.

And part of that delusion is still being in love with Travis Alexander, getting her revenge any way that she can. This is a woman who`s

a psychopath. But let`s remember, this is a very mentally ill psychopath, and that`s why she`s trying to represent herself, because she thinks she`s

going to do something miraculous: put herself out there and be able to save her life.

And I just don`t think it`s going to happen. I think what will happen is people will feel sorry for her. They`ll see how pathetic that she is,

and perhaps in that case, she`ll get a life sentence instead of getting the death penalty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ve got Twitter comments coming in. Debbie: "I think the honorable Judge Sherry Stephens is helping Jodi dig

her own grave."

Danny on Twitter says, "Jodi wants attention, wants to reopen the whole case. Manipulation yet again."

And now I want to go to Beth Karas, former assistant D.A., former prosecutor, a woman who knows so much about this case.

You have new information. Let us know what it is regarding this astounding new development.

BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I`m looking at the court order dated August 20 that says that Jodi`s investigators to get access to

the crime scene by August 28 -- we`re talking last Thursday. This just doesn`t look right to me.

I know those are the words we`ve all read. But to me, based upon my experience as a prosecutor and a reporter, I think her investigator needed

to look at the property and all the evidence that`s in the custody of the Mesa Police Department, the crime scene property, property taken from the

crime scene, not the actual crime scene.

However, the words as written in this order say "crime scene." I`m basing this on my experience. This doesn`t look right to me.

Whatever happened was supposed to happen by last Thursday anyway. The family living in that house would have had standing. That is, they would

have been able to go into court to say, "Hey, we`re not letting these investigators traipse all over our house." The last I knew, that family

had children who didn`t know a murder had occurred in the house, and it might -- it might have really spooked the children if they knew that. So

I`m not so sure this is going to happen, quite frankly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you heard it here first from the one and only Beth Karas, who knows a lot about this case. In fact, she was very helpful

in writing my book, "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias," and made sure it was absolutely 100 percent, on-the-money accurate. Check out my Jane

Velez-Mitchell Facebook page and like it, please, while you`re there.

My "New York Times" bestseller, "Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias," has just come out in paperback. It is the definitive account of

this case and the trial, with exclusive information about Jodi`s relationship with Travis Alexander, as well as some really interesting

revelations about some of her behavior during previous relationships.

To get up to date on this explosive case, you should read "Exposed" before the retrial starts in just a couple of weeks.

In a moment, back with more of Jodi`s outrageous courtroom tactics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ARIAS: I wouldn`t use obsession. It was a two-way street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... caused the death of Travis V. Alexander.

ARIAS: I need to be honest. The evidence is very compelling. But none of it proves that I committed a murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: And I woke up, and he was on top of me. And he`d already penetrated and started having sex. It kind of felt like -- like a

prostitute, sort of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve gotten word that Jodi has been granted permission to send her private eye back to the home, the crime scene where

she butchered Travis Alexander, although we are hearing that perhaps the crime scene is really her permission to examine stuff taken from the crime

scene. So Beth Karas is saying it may not be exactly what it seems.

Still, Lenny on Facebook asks, "I would like to hear the judge explain to the public why she approved this?"

I`ll tell you why. The judge has been very wise. She doesn`t want to give Jodi Arias any excuse to file an appeal, should Jodi lose and be

sentenced to death. So she`s allowing her, "Yes, go ahead: represent herself." She`s saying, "Go do what you want to do so that when you`re --

you`re sentenced to death, you can`t come back and file an appeal."

Let`s go to the phone lines. Susan, Illinois, what do you have to say? Susan.

CALLER: Oh, Jane, strap yourselves in. We are going back to Jodi- land. First of all, Juan Martinez is going to chew her up and spit her out. But personally I think this girl is so sick and warped, she wants to

go back to that house to relive what she did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t agree with you more. And here`s my concern. Jodi took what was essentially a kinky S&M relationship, at least

based on her claims and the phone sex tape, that she willingly had with Travis that was totally invited behavior on her part, and she tried to turn

it into domestic abuse, insulting all genuine survivors of domestic abuse. You remember the extremely graphic sex tape that was played in open court

and was heard around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (via phone): You know what I really like is when we were in the bath with the candles and I had the braids...

ALEXANDER (via phone): Oh, I loved the braids.

ARIAS: I know. Those were hot.

ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ALEXANDER: Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Claypool, criminal defense attorney, you raise a very important point. What evidence will be admissible? This whole

retrial is a giant question mark.

Everybody seems to think that Jodi is going to take this ball and run with it and try to retry the whole case and basically drag Travis through

the mud again and accuse him of being an abuser and all that. And that`s Travis Alexander`s family there, crying hysterically as they were forced to

listen to Jodi basically malign his character and throw him under the bus in every way possible. Is she going to be able to do that again?

CLAYPOOL: Jane, there is a great grounds for appeal if the judge in this case does not allow some evidence of what led up to the murder into

the death penalty phase. And I`ll tell you why.

There is a possibility that there are some jurors out there in the death penalty phase who have no clue what went down with Jodi Arias and

Travis Alexander.

If I`m Arias`s lawyer, I`m in there arguing pretrial, "Judge, I need to talk about my mental health leading up to the murder. I need to talk

about alleged domestic abuse leading up to the murder so that I can explain to this jury that I am not that wanton murderer that everybody`s portraying

me to be, and I should have a second chance at life." You can`t separate the two, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Areva, this is supposed to be about her pleading for her life. Basically people on, like her mother, who didn`t

testify on her behalf the last time around. Saying, "She`s a good person. This was her first criminal offense. She can do recycling programs from

behind bars and sell her braids or whatever."

But I don`t think it`s going to be that way. I think it`s going to be something far more diabolical where this man, Travis Alexander, who was

murdered, is going to have his character assassinated again by that woman.

MARTIN: You`re right, Jane. We should get ready for that. Because the penalty phase is a mini trial. So witnesses are going to be presented.

Opening statements are going to be presented. Closing arguments.

And Jodi, whether she`s representing herself or not, will get to make a leniency statement. She`ll get to stand before the jurors and plead her

case and say, "I`m not this, you know, diabolical person. I`m not this heinous murderer. I`m just a woman who was abused as a child. I`m a woman

that was abused by men. And I deserve to have my life spared."

So everyone that finds this woman disgusting better get ready, because you`re going to see her in rare form. If the judge allows cameras in this

courtroom, we`re going to see her at her best. Oscar-performing -- you know, Oscar-nominated type performances by this woman is what I expect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s just infuriating, because it`s going to be like a redo but worse, because she`s now her own attorney and the witness.

Which on the other side of the break, what we`re going to talk about is what kind of surreal scene is that going to be? Can you imagine her in

jury selection asking a juror, "Hello, did you ever hear of me? Do you recognize my face? I`m Jodi Arias." I can`t even say that.

Take a short break. We`re going to be back in a second, and we`re going to dive into what is this retrial going to look like with Beth Karas,

who knows the case inside and out.

Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona, versus Jodi Ann Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s lots of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, first-degree murder, premeditated murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He spun me around. He bent me over the bed. He lifted up my skirt, and he pulled down my underwear. He unzipped his pants. He began

to have anal sex with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got more breaking news just in on the Jodi Arias death penalty retrial that is just weeks away.

Straight out to Beth Karas, former prosecutor, who has sources close to the case.

Beth, what have you learned?

KARAS: Well, four weeks from yesterday, Jane, jury selection will begin. Now, between now and then, the attorneys -- well, that`s Jodi and

Juan Martinez -- will be very busy interviewing witnesses. For example, in the next days to come, Juan Martinez will be interviewing Jodi Arias`s

expert and her civilian witnesses. Her expert, I assume -- we don`t know the name -- is a domestic violence expert. We don`t expect LaViolette to

appear.

But all that domestic violence stuff that Jodi Arias testified to in her 18 days on the stand can be testified to by an expert. That hearsay,

that`s helpful hearsay, that is Jodi Arias`s words, can come from the mouth of an expert in a penalty phase in a capital case. Jodi doesn`t have to

get on the stand to be cross-examined to tell the story. So I don`t think we`re going to see her on the stand.

In any event, Juan Martinez will be busy in the next week or so.

But on September 29, three panels of 100 jurors have been summoned for 8:30, 10:30 and 1:30. Each of those panels of 100 are going to be asked --

they`re going to be asked publicity and opinion questions and hardship questions.

If they get cut, like they have an opinion about her or they can`t sit for however number of weeks they expect the trial to last, they`ll be

excused. The remaining ones are going to fill out the questionnaires...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.

KARAS: ... and then the jury will be selected from those questionnaires...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to go to Dr. Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist. She`s going to argue and try to get an expert witness. My

question is what expert witness in their right mind is going to want to testify?

You know what happened to Alyce LaViolette. She was the domestic violence expert who was literally subjected to a public campaign of

ridicule, to the point where she had to go to the hospital one day, because she was getting such blowback for basically saying, "Oh, I believe Jodi

was, yes, a victim of domestic violence" when everybody watching the trial said, "Are you kidding me?" Who`s going to testify on her behalf?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Jane, it`s going to be a hired gun, someone with an ego who thinks that they can prove that yes,

even though she`s a psychopath, she reacted and just could not control herself. And I`ll tell you something else, the attorney who is on the

other side, who`s going to make mincemeat out of her, this is still going to work out for Jodi Arias because the jury is going to see that she`s a

pathetic individual. And the more time they get to see how pathetic she is, the more they`re going to spare her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, what? I think you might be right. Because all she needs is one person. It has to be a unanimous verdict for death.

Straight out to the phone lines, Joyce, Pennsylvania. What do you have to say?

JOYCE: She deserves to die. I don`t like the woman. Travis` family needs peace in their life. And she needs to go on and die somewhere.

That`s my opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have one last question, Areva Martin, this is perhaps the most despise woman in America. I think she eclipsed Casey

Anthony -- Jodi Arias eclipsed Casey Anthony when she accused Travis of being a pedophile at that moment. She became the most hated woman in

America. Could any jury actually say, oh, you know, we`re going to let her walk, not walk but spend the rest of her life behind bars? Yes, we don`t

have it in us?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think a lot of jurors, despite how much they hate her, despite knowing how heinous the crime is that she committed,

I think someone, a lot of someones who will sit on that jury will not be able to send this young woman to death. She has a certain kind of charm

about her. Everybody hates her. But you saw the last jurors, they could not give her the death penalty. So these are human beings. And when she

stands up there, they`re going to be probably influenced by her charm. So I don`t know if she`s going to get the death penalty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We are going to stay on top of this as we bare towards the penalty face, retrial on life or death. If you want to

get up to speed, my book "Exposed: The Secret life of Jodi Arias" now in paperback. A portion of the proceeds go into charity.

On the other side, cops say this man you`re about to see there, handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser shot himself to death. But the

coroner`s report contradicts what the police say. They said he was shot in the back. We`re going to tell you where the coroner says he was actually

shot. And could he have done that with his hands cuffed behind his back? The naked truth, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What they were saying happened to my son -- I`ll say this. My son doesn`t kill himself. He had eight other siblings. No

answers on how he died. He has a one-year-old daughter that at some point is going to say, papa, what happened to my dad?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Help us, because tonight we`re going to try to uncover the naked truth. On the heels of demonstrations in Ferguson,

Missouri, over the death of Michael Brown, there is now another very controversial death of an African-American man in police custody. Victor

White III was handcuffed in the backseat of a police car. He ended up dead. Police say he shot himself in the back, committed suicide. Now the

coroner`s report has come out. It turns out Victor was shot in the chest. His hands are behind his back, cuffed.

His autopsy concluded he was shot in the right side of his chest and the bullet went into his left armpit. But get this, the coroner still

ruled that this 22-year-old man`s death was a suicide, that he killed himself. His hands were cuffed behind his back, shot in the chest.

Victor`s father says, his son had abrasions on the left side of his face. Brant (ph) says, there were no abrasions when the cops drove off of them.

Cops say there was no fight. So, what the heck is going on here?

How can the coroner rule this young father`s death was a suicide when his hands were cuffed behind his back? The doctor who did the autopsy says

it was, quote, "possible due to his body habitus," that`s body type, for Victor to shoot himself in the chest with his hands cuffed behind his back.

Huh? The family`s attorney completely disagrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Good morning. We`d like to welcome everyone to this press conference as we deal with issues in our community, as we deal

with --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, in that news conference, the attorney called it a Houdini handcuff suicide, in other words, he said it

wasn`t really a suicide, it`s a killing that`s falsely described as a suicide.

Let`s go to our naked truth debate panel starting with Attorney Areva Martin, what is the naked truth? What do you think really happened to this

young man, Victor White?

MARTIN: Someone other than Victor shot Victor, Jane. And that`s clear from the evidence that`s come out in this case so far. You know, to

think that someone could be handcuffed (audio gap) handed person shoot themselves in the right sight of their chest, just defies all logic. There

are also so many inconsistencies in this case, we were first told that he shot himself in the back. That`s what the local police authority said.

But now the coroner`s report disputes that and says, no, he was shot from the front in the right side of his chest.

We`re also hearing about these lacerations or abrasions on his face. The friend who was with him right before he was placed in the car said he

had no abrasions. So, all of the stories being told by the police, the time period that it`s taken and most compelling about this case, Jane is

unlike the Michael Brown case where there was no dash camera or body camera, there was a dash camera in this case and yet to this day, almost

six months later, we haven`t seen the video from that camera.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Areva, I`d also like to point out -- and I`ll get Brian Claypool, criminal defense attorney -- this is the first page of the

pathology report. It was done the very night of his death. March 3rd, 2014. It`s now September 1st. Why was this withheld? Why was this

withheld, that in fact, contrary to what the cops said, that he was shot in the back, which would make more sense if they`re claiming he was cuffed and

he grabbed a gun out of nowhere -- this report shows that he was shot in the chest.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, first of all, this is an ongoing criminal investigation. It`s not concluded yet. So if

there was a question -- let`s play jeopardy for a second. If there was question, a category on jeopardy, civil rights and the question was,

describe the investigations of Michael Brown and Victor White, my answer would be, what is rush to judgment? We have to stop jumping to conclusions

based on piecemeal information. Let me tell you two critical facts that came out of that first page of the autopsy report that suggests this was

either a suicide or an accident and it was self-inflicted.

Two things. First of all, there was soot on Victor White`s body. That means -- that`s a black powder. It`s a black powdery substance. That

means the shooting distance, Jane, could have been as close as six inches. It could have been maybe a foot. But another important fact is this, the

trajectory of that bullet you have on your screen, the bullet entry goes upward. It goes upward. That means if an officer shot Victor White and

he`s sitting in a police car, that officer would either have to be lying on his stomach or on his knees to match up the trajectory of the bullet going

upward.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So, you`re talking about trajectories --

MARTIN: Can I say something?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to jump in because this is a conversation the three of us are having. But, okay, here, let`s take a look. There`s

handcuffs. Right? I`ve got handcuffs. Okay? I`m going to shoot myself in the chest? I don`t think it`s possible. I`ve been trying all day.

CLAYPOOL: Jane, you don`t know how loose -- the handcuffs were?

MARTIN: Jane, not only that it`s not possible --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, just do it.

CLAYPOOL: You don`t know how loose the handcuffs were. Sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sorry. I don`t see how you can -- I just don`t see how that could happen.

MARTIN: Jane, can I say something? A very important point here, Victor White was searched by the police, not once but twice and possibly

even a third time. They found marijuana, they found small amounts of cocaine, very soft packages. But a gun, a .22-caliber gun was not found on

his body at any time during these body searches. So now we have to believe a gun was missed multiple times by police that searched him and somehow

surfaces and he gets shot even though this young man had his entire life, a baby, a girlfriend, a new job to live for.

CLAYPOOL: Right.

MARTIN: He sits in a police car and kills himself. We`re not guessing or rushing to judgment Brian, you`re sticking your head in the

sand on this one, Brian.

CLAYPOOL: No, Areva, what about Ashley Boutte (ph) who said that night that Victor White was at her house and he said he had a gun on his

possession? You don`t think that`s an important fact? And you mean to tell me that you guys are suggesting police officers are planting guns in

the police car? Take the serial number off the gun and run a search on it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a couple of things --

MARTIN: There was never a gun identified by any witness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. A small caliber pistol was found. You mentioned the friend who was with him who claimed earlier that he

claimed he had a gun, although he didn`t show it. And also cops used a different caliber weapon, a .45 than the .22-caliber pistol that was found.

So, those are some things that could lean toward the police argument. But I don`t know. I wasn`t there.

Let`s go to Jackie Taurianen, who is our social media producer at our #hub. What are folks saying?

JACKIE TAURIANEN, PRODUCER, "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Jane, the biggest thing right now, people have questions. They just don`t understand how

something like this could have ever happened. Take Kim, for example, she says, "Now, how in the world did Victor White manage to shoot himself in

the chest while handcuffed in the squad car?" Kind of longer same sentiment. We have Hear me Roar saying, "Victor White shot himself in the

chest while handcuffed with a gun that was somehow missed when he was searched."

Again going back to that he was found with cocaine and marijuana on his person but they couldn`t find a gun? People -- they have questions

about it. Finally you have Martin saying, "The autopsy results, the direction the bullet entered and traveled through the body and a gunshot

residue test could easily prove if this was murder or suicide."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to give -- thank you, Jackie, for that great update.

TAURIANEN: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to give each one on our naked truth panel 30 seconds, final arguments, starting with Brian Claypool.

CLAYPOOL: Well, Jane, I think clearly this is possibly -- I think it`s an accident. I think the handcuffs might have been loose and Victor

White was struggling. He might have had a gun in his pocket. And the gun might have inadvertently discharged, giving you that close range of six

inches to a foot and giving you that upward trajectory. And remember, he had some alcohol in his system. And some illegal drug in his system. And

that could have led to his more violent behavior, too, which led to the bruising on his cheek.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Areva Martin?

MARTIN: Jane, If Victor White had a gun on his possession, this is the most incompetent police department on the planet because they searched

him twice and they never found the gun. Something happened to Victor that`s untoward. We need a transparent and objective investigation to find

out what it is. And that has not happened to date.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would agree with you that we do need a special prosecutor in this case. It has to be taken out of the hands of the local

authorities because of the controversy. And I just leave you with one thing. I`ve been trying to do this all day. I don`t want to take sides,

but I`m trying to get my head around if you are handcuffed from the back, how are you going to shoot yourself in the chest? How are you going to do

that? Try it at home. If you can do it, take a video and send it to us because I`d like to see.

Nude photos of Jennifer Lawrence, Kate Upton and other huge stars. How did those naked pictures end up online? It`s a question we all need to

find out. The answer to because, it could happen to any one of us. Not that I have naked pictures, I don`t. But anything that you have taken a

photograph on your cell phone and if it`s gone up to a cloud, watch out. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hacker hunt. Nude pictures stolen from celebrity phones, the FBI now on the case.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Agents will be interviewing the alleged victims and will likely be in touch with Apple in an effort to find out who the

hacker or hackers are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Hacked celebrities are firing back.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I have no idea what I`m doing here. This just feels insane.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Oscar winner Jennifer Lawrence and supermodel Kate Upton were among the celebrities who had their private photos released

online.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Now all the stars are admitting that these nude shots are real.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: That the FBI and Apple are investigating.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Allegedly obtained through a massive online hack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is outrageous. Tonight a slew of Hollywood stars have become victims of a massive hacking scandal. Some are calling

it a sex crime. That mystery hacker`s leak of naked photos tonight being investigated by the FBI. One star whose naked photo is out there now for

the world to see, stunning "American Hustle" actress and Oscar winner Jennifer Lawrence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: He`s always going to want me. And I will make you so sorry, Edith. I will make you so sorry for what you`ve

done to my family. Mark my words.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight JLaw is vowing to make that hacker who leaked her personal photos very, very sorry. Her lawyer calls this a

flagrant violation of privacy. You think? Of course it is. Other stars involved in the naked photo leak include actress Kirsten Dunst and "Sports

Illustrated" model Kate Upton. She`s also threatening legal action. There are dozens reportedly of starlets, stars, beautiful young actresses who

were hacked.

Straight out to Dana Ward, host of ClevverTV. This has got to be sending shock waves of fear through Hollywood.

DANA WARD, HOST, CLEVVERTV: Oh, my goodness from. From a digital news coverage standpoint, this spread like wildfire over the weekend. And

it`s probably because this is celebrity and it`s nude photos. That combined together is just going to take over the internet. And it really,

really did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I got to say that it terrifies everybody who uses a cell phone to take photos. And I can tell you, I have not used a

cell phone to take naked photos of myself, but you start wondering what photos did I take? What photos were sent to me that are up in the cloud?

I want to go to Vinnie Troia, computer security expert. We want to know how did this happen? Apparently according to Apple, it wasn`t like

their entire system was hacked, but there was an aggressive use of passwords and the codes -- in other words, somebody going in saying oh, I

bet you this actress uses Oscar winner one and they finally get into their account.

VINNIE TROIA, COMPUTER SECURITY EXPERT: Yes. I mean, one of the things that we see time and time again is that, you know, with recently e-

bay was breached, for example. And so you have, you know, 40, 80 million user names and passwords that were just kind of floating out there in cyber

space. And so people will take those user names and a passwords and try them on different services like we saw in stub hub and now again like we`re

seeing with Apple or even, you know, drop box and things like that. And they are going to see if they can get in. And so when Apple is saying that

it`s targeted against these actresses or, you know, these people, I mean, that`s very likely. I mean, they may just already note the e-mail

addresses and now they`ve got a cache of passwords, and look it up, they see that the passwords there, they tried, it happens to be the same, and

now they got access to their iPhoto.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When it comes to superstars, there`s so much information about them on Wikipedia. Yes. What`s your mother`s maiden

name? Okay, Wikipedia will tell me that. And then they use that and then they say, oh, I forgot my password and they pretend to be these stars.

Model and actress Kate Upton was also targeted. She`s known for her beauty showcased in the movie "The Other Woman."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Are you kidding me? She makes me look like I`m wearing a diaper.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I can`t believe you lie. We got played by the same guy. Let`s take him down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Claypool, a couple of seconds. What could the creep who did this get?

CLAYPOOL: Jane, this creep is in a heap of trouble. There`s a federal law called the computer fraud and abuse act. And he could serve up

to 20 years in jail for what he did. So look out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s it. We`re out of time. Be careful with your passwords and user names. Nancy next.

END