Return to Transcripts main page

Jane Velez-Mitchell

Woman Held Captive in Wooden Cage?; Roger Goodell: We Asked For Video; TMZ: NFL Never Asked to See Punch Video; Janay Rice: We`ll Show "What Real Love Is"

Aired September 09, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the shape of an "F" and an "L" and an "R," and just scratchings on a piece of paper.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, as the desperate search continues for beautiful missing 27-year-old Kristy Kelly in Indiana, another woman who

went missing around the same time in the same area is found alive, unbelievably, being kept in a wooden cage with a belt as a dog collar and

working as alleged sex slave. What happened to 30-year-old Joelle Lockwood inside the trailer of horrors we will show you? And is it connected to the

disappearance of still missing Kristy Kelly?

Good evening, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my daughter. I will do whatever I have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brave and difficult fight of holding onto hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please take that extra moment and just look to the side of the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Towering over a map, volunteers mark areas that have been combed. What areas have been searched? Where do we need to go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundreds have joined in the search.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, please, I`m begging you from one mother to another mother. We won`t give up, Kristy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mother of two, Kristy Kelly vanished into thin air in Boonville, Indiana, way back on August 15 after leaving a VFW post about

4:30 in the morning. She had been hanging out with some friends. She left her cell phone in the bathroom. And neither Kristy nor her car was ever

seen again.

It was just 20 miles away and five weeks earlier that another mother of two, Joelle Lockwood, disappeared after leaving a party. We are now

learning that after that party, Joelle accepted a ride with one of her captors, this man, 37-year-old Ricky Roy House. They had apparently known

each other since high school. And that`s the woman with House.

Things took an ugly turn with Joelle agreed to go to House`s trailer, OK, the trailer he shares with his girlfriend, that woman right there. Cops

say once Joelle arrived, she was held as a prisoner, raped, beaten, and forced to remain in a two-and-a-half-foot-tall wooden cage wearing a

collar. She was discovered eventually by one of her captors` friends, who just stopped by the trailer for a visit. He said Joelle was wearing just a

T-shirt and a collar, begging to be rescued.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD HIGGS, RESCUER: I`m not leaving this house without her. I don`t care what I`ve got to do. She`s coming home. Stuffed that shotgun right

here under my chin with his finger on the trigger. He said, "I`m going to kill you."

And you`ll probably bleep this out, but I said, "If you`re going to F-ing kill me, you`d better do it now. I`m going to take this F-ing away from

you and beat you to death with it."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That man is a hero. He got Joelle out.

Joelle`s dramatic reappearance, does it mean police are any closer to finding this woman, Kristy Kelly? I want to hear from you. Do you think

these cases are related? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Join the conversation. Go to my Facebook page, Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook.

Or talk to me on Twitter, @JVM.

We have a fantastic Lion`s Den panel ready to debate these issues, but first out to my very special guest, missing woman Kristy Kelly`s father,

Todd Scales.

Todd, if I may call you that, thank you so much for joining us on the phone as our expert panel listens. With the news that Joelle Lockwood has been

found, I have to ask you, sir, does that give you -- and I know you`re going through a nightmare of a situation right now, does it give you any

hope that your daughter who vanished just 20 miles away in the same time frame could also somehow disappear?

TODD SCALES, KRISTY KELLY`S FATHER (via phone): We can all hope so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there...

SCALES: We cling to that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have police told you anything about your daughter`s disappearance?

SCALES: No, they haven`t. We`re still kind of waiting, I suppose. We know there`s still no clues, no evidence of anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s unbelievable.

Now, the night your daughter vanished, she was out having a few drinks with some friends at a VFW hall.

Her cell phone was found inside the bathroom. The last trace of Kristy came from a surveillance camera down the street at a Tasty Freeze. And you

see it right there. It looks like Kristy`s SUV driving past about 20 minutes after she was last seen at the bar. But of course, it`s difficult

to tell who`s driving the SUV. Kristy drives a silver 2003 Nissan Xterra, license plate ZF858 [SIC]. She lives, I understand, just over a mile with

you, with the parents, with you, Todd, I understand, just about a mile away from the VFW hall she was hanging out at.

So what on earth, Todd, could have happened during that one mile or just over a mile after she`s last seen at the bar on August 15 and, in the early

morning hours, about 1:30 decides to leave?

SCALES: That is the question we would like some answers to also. Believe me, it`s ran through our mind many of times. It`s about a four-minute

drive from the VFW, so we have no idea what has happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now I remember that we`ve covered this story before. She was talking to two friends. She happens to be friendly with the bartender.

I believe that bartender is a woman. She had just started at the bar, and she was being instructed, kind of, by the manager. And those two went off

to cash out the bar at the end of the night, and when they came back, your daughter was gone. But she had left her cell phone in the bathroom. Is

that accurate, sir?

SCALES: Yes, that would be accurate.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`ve talked to both those people, the manager, undoubtedly, and the female bartender. Did they get any sense that there

was any creep weirdo hanging out there that night who may have gotten fixated on your beautiful daughter? Any tips offered by these two

individuals? Have you talked to them?

SCALES: We have spoken with them, and no there was nothing like that going on that we`re aware of. Unfortunately, the VFW doesn`t have any

surveillance cameras in their parking lot. So once she went out to her car, we really have no idea what happened at that point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Well, I want to stop for one second. Let me ask you one more question, Todd, if I may call you that. Did your

daughter have any romantic interests, any boyfriend that she may have had a fight with, anything of that nature?

SCALES: None that she would have had a fight with that -- again, that I`m aware of. She was seeing a gentleman. He`s been helping in the search

efforts and doesn`t seem to be a suspect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the cops won`t tell you a thing?

SCALES: Well, they`re like us. They`re still searching for answers also.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Let`s go to that nearby case that was just solved. Joelle Lockwood`s family shocked when she suddenly arrived home.

Listen to her mother`s 9/11 call after her daughter suddenly showed up on her doorstep.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have got her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have Joelle?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she`s -- she`s fine. But we have not talked to her at any length yet. I don`t know -- but a man found her, and she`s

alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author of "Undercover Angel," initially when we covered these stories, you said that

you thought there could very well be a connection between these two disappearances. Both women are about the same age. Both have two

children, two young children. Both were even wearing similar outfits, jean shorts and shirts. Both vanished within 20 miles and five weeks of each

other.

Now that Joelle has been discovered and went through this horrific horror, allegedly, where she was kept in a cage and raped, but rescued by that man

that we saw a second ago, does that give you any new insight into whether these two are connected?

LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR/AUTHOR: I absolutely thought initially that that was the case, that they were connected. And I`m not even saying right

now that they cannot be. I know what police are doing, though. They are searching that area. They`re probably looking for evidence within that

mobile home and that community. They`re interviewing and canvassing every single neighbor to see if there was any suspicious in those hours, on that

exact day that Kristy Kelly had disappeared.

So I`m not saying that they`re still not connected, but what this does is it gives me incredible hope that Kristy may still be alive.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. David, Nova Scotia, what do you have to say? David, Nova Scotia.

CALLER: Jane, this is a pleasure to talk to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: This is great. It kind of reminds me of the Cleveland story where the guy had the three women, was it, down in his basement locked up?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Ariel Castro.

CALLER: Yes, that guy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those were all connected. Those were women from the neighborhood. And there had been sort of a general extensive sort of

network of friends and family they were somehow intertwined with.

My gosh, Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, It`s not farfetched to ask the question could these cases be connected? Anybody who`s crazy enough to

allegedly kidnap a high-school friend, he`s charged with unlawful confinement and rape, and then rape her, allegedly, and keep her in a cage,

naked in a dog collar, is capable of doing something to two women.

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely, Jane. What we don`t know at this point, we have heard from some of the initial reports and interviews

that the reason he kidnapped her was he wanted to impregnate her, because his own girlfriend could no longer have children.

So if you`re going to take one woman for that particular use, why would you not have a back-up plan? I agree with our investigator that this still

could still be linked. And perhaps, if he did try to abduct Kristy Kelly, something went wrong, and that`s why she was not found there at the house.

So they`re going to continue to look into this, but let`s just hope that we find Kristy alive like we did Joelle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you know, Heather Hanson, criminal defense attorney, it makes sense. The guy who rescued them said this, which I think is one

of the most bizarre things. He says this couple, who had been arrested -- and we`ve got footage of them. You saw them being arrested -- this is the

woman who was rescued, Joelle. And there is the man who allegedly kept her in a cage and raped her, and there is his girlfriend.

And here`s what the hero, who rescued her, said. "The whole time, it was all they was talking about was a baby. She`s not leaving here until she

has the baby. I`m not selling her. You`re not taking her. You`re not doing nothing. She told me Ricky was raping her, making her have oral sex.

Kendra can`t have more children. Ricky doesn`t have any children of his own. I hate to say this to the public, or even hearing it, but I think

they were just going to have a baby and we`d never see her again."

Heather Hanson, there`s still a missing woman.

HEATHER HANSON: Yes, I mean, it`s very concerning. And the hope is that, now that we have these suspects and they`ve been arrested, they can search

the home, they can search the area around the home.

The other thing that you pointed out, Jane, that`s a point well-taken, is that they`re going to look for connections between Kelly and this couple to

see -- because more often than not, people are abducted or kidnapped by people they know. We know that they knew their victim that was returned

home.

So these are the connections that the police will be trying to make to see whether or not, in fact, there was some relationship between Kelly and this

couple.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Chris on Facebook says, "Thank you to the friend who rescued her and praying the other woman is found alive." Absolutely.

Amy on Facebook: "Too much of a coincidence."

So we`re going to take a short break. On the other side, we`re going to continue to talk to the father of missing Kristy Kelly. We want to hear

from you. What are your theories? Might these two be connected?

I want to ask the dad, have the police come to him and, "No, it`s not connected or it is connected"? Have they said anything to him? Have

police looked at the possibility that these two who they`ve arrested might hold the key to this other disappearance? Or are they saying flat-out no

connection whatsoever?

Stay right there. We`re going to be back with more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My granddaughter told me today, because I had to go see my grandbabies. I hadn`t seen them for five days. My grandbaby told

me, she said, "Nana, you need to take my back to my daddy`s, because you need to go look for my mommy."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have her now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of holding a woman captive in their home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Confined to a small wooden cage and forcing her to wear a dog collar and leash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say they found multiple Bungee cords, zip ties and various other restraints.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man found her and she`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every night they locked her in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two Indiana women abducted. One has been found, the other still missing. Are they connected?

According to investigators, Joelle Lockwood, the woman who was found, spent months in sheer hell while she was held prisoner as a slave in a cage.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HIGGS: Sat over on the couch beside me and says, "I got a girl back here in a cage."

I said, "You got a girl back there in a cage? What are you talking about?"

Well, she cooked all of our meals. She said, "Can I have something to eat?"

And they said, "If there`s something left, you can have something to eat."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That man, police have described him as a hero. He`s the one who said, "You`re coming with me," and rescued her from that hell hole.

Investigators say Joelle has been abducted after a party on July 9.

Let`s go to the other case now, the woman who is still missing. Kristy Kelly, she vanished on August 15 after leaving a VFW -- there she is, this

beautiful young lady -- at about 1:30 in the morning. It`s only about a mile from the home she shares with her parents. She also has two children.

So a lot of people are saying these are possibly connected.

I mean, Amy on Facebook says, "Too much of a coincidence."

I want to go back to the father of the still-missing woman, Todd Scales, father of Kristy Kelly.

Have police told you -- after Joelle was found, did they call you up and say, "Sir, there`s no connection here" or "We think there is a connection"?

Did they tell you anything?

SCALES: Nope. We don`t believe at this time there is any connection between the two. That`s as I understand it from the police.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the police did call you and tell you that, because you`ve been saying -- and, you know, I understand that this is -- this is a

lot to deal with, but that they`ve essentially told you nothing, but they did tell you that?

SCALES: I have been in contact with them, and they don`t believe there is any connection between the two. I believe they have looked into this, and

I`m sure they`re still continuing, you know, to look into it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you, did the police believe that your daughter`s disappearance is a stranger abduction or is it somebody that she

knows?

SCALES: I wish we knew the answer to that. Actually, at this time, we really don`t have an answer. We`re looking into everything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So police are basically at a dead end in your daughter`s disappearance?

SCALES: At this point, I wouldn`t say a dead end. They have a lot of leads yet that are coming in and to follow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you give us a hint? Can you give us any kind of hint so we can analyze it with our expert panel?

SCALES: To be honest, I wish I could. But at this point, we really just simply do not know. You know, it`s more than likely someone that she knew.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh.

SCALES: But, that`s speculation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Lisa Lockwood, what do you make of that? We just got a new tidbit.

LOCKWOOD: Well, in light of that, somebody had waited for her -- waited for that parking lot to clear. She was possibly one of the last people out

of the bar that night. So yes, the opportunity to get into the vehicle and abduct her was certainly there.

Now we also know that there were no cameras in that VFW parking lot. So really, we`re speculating right now. But always, always -- police will

always try to find out, did she know somebody? Did that person -- did she have a fallout? Was it an ex-boyfriend, ex-lover, et cetera? Did she have

an argument with somebody? And they`re trying to find out, basically, if she knew that person. So yes, it is a possibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bridget, Pennsylvania. Quickly, your thoughts? Bridget, Pennsylvania.

CALLER: Hi, how are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fine, thank you.

CALLER: So it`s a pleasure to speak to you, Jane. I just want to let you know that sometimes people do things out of hatred of what had happened to

them in the past. So sometimes you need to pray for people like that. Because, you know, they`re very sick in the mind.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, absolutely. And I want to go to Holly Hughes, former prosecutor. Yes, the people who held this poor woman, allegedly --

they haven`t been convicted yet. But allegedly held her in a cage with a dog collar around her neck, forcing her into sexual acts. This guy, he`s

accused of rape and unlawful confinement. Yes, they`re sick, but that doesn`t mean that they`re legally insane. They know right from wrong.

HUGHES: That`s exactly right, Jane. A lot of people think just because you`re crazy, that you`re not legally responsible and nothing is farther

from the truth. It`s what we call the McNaughton rule. And basically, if you can tell the difference between right and wrong, if you can appreciate

the nature of your actions and the very fact that they kept her locked up and had to hold onto her against her will, they knew what they were doing

was wrong. She certainly was not there voluntarily.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mr. Scales, we want to say our heart goes out to you. We want to stay on top of the Kristy Kelly disappearance. We want to

find your daughter safe and sound. If you get any leads, please call us and tell us immediately.

Up next, Ray Rice and his wife Janay reacting to the firestorm over that newly-released video showing him knocking her out cold in an elevator. Did

the NFL see that video before yesterday or not? We have just-in reaction from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY RICE, SUSPENDED NFL PLAYER: It is just totally inexcusable. And I`m here to tell you that I made the biggest mistake of my life, me. She can

do no wrong. She`s an angel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight`s "Naked Truth," new controversy over the outrageous Ray Rice punch video and his wife`s latest statement. You won`t

believe it.

Also new claims the NFL turned a blind eye to this player`s explosion of violence, captured in this brutal video. We`re going to show it to you.

Again, we`ve got to warn you: it`s disturbing.

TMZ reports the NFL never asked the hotel where this happened to see this video. NFL officials insist, "Oh, we didn`t see it until yesterday.

That`s when we decided to suspend the Ravens star indefinitely."

That`s true. NFL officials didn`t see the video until yesterday. Our question tonight, did they even try to get it?

Just moments ago, embattled NFL commissioner Roger Goodell spoke to CBS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be clear...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, so you can`t...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... did you know that a second tape existed?

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: Well, we had not seen any videotape of what occurred in the elevator. We assumed that there was a video. We

asked for a video. We asked for anything that was prudent, but we were never granted that opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to get TMZ`s response to that in a second. And the only thing we`ve heard from disgraced Ravens star since

the video came out is this text, this from Ray Rice: "I`m just holding strong for my wife and kid. That`s all I can do right now," end quote.

But his wife, seen facedown, OK? -- there she is, face down after Ray Rice knocks her out with a single punch. She is lashing out not at her abusive

husband, but at the media and the NFL.

Janay Rice posted a long message on Instagram today. Here are a couple of parts that a lot of people find troubling. Quote, "To make us relive a

moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing."

Why does she regret it along with him? What did she do?

And also, "Just know, we will continue to grow and show the world what real love is," end quote. Real love? Real love? You know, a lot of people

look at that punch and say, that`s not real love. And they see that punch, and they say she has nothing to regret. She has nothing to apologize for.

We`re going to go straight out to Evan Rosenblum, executive producer of TMZ. And my dear friend, who I once worked with, you have basically done

it again. TMZ just creating a firestorm of controversy. You managed to get the video, but you heard the NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell, "Oh, you

know, we couldn`t find it."

What have you learned about whether they really tried very hard to get this incriminating video?

EVAN ROSENBLUM, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: Here`s what I learned, Jane. If Roger Goodell worked as a reporter for Harvey or Jane, he would have been

fired. Because he did a terrible job investigating this.

He just released a statement, you heard him say to CBS, that they waited to get the video. They went and talked to law enforcement, and they never

went to the casino. They said he only trusted law enforcement to give him the video. He felt like going to the actual casino itself wouldn`t have

been as credible as police, so they never bothered to go to the casino, even though we posted that video back in February of Ray dragging Janay out

of the elevator. So clearly, you knew there was an incident there. You knew there was a video camera in the elevator recording stuff. But they

still felt like going to the actual casino wouldn`t have been as credible as going to police. Terrible investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, they stuck their head in the sand. See no evil, hear no evil. We don`t really want to find it. So, we can say,

upswell, you know, we ask the police for it. Police don`t hand out video like that. If you`re going to get it, you`re going to do it the way you

did it. You found it. You`re not going to reveal your sources. But you were able to find it. The NFL is one of the most powerful institutions in

the United States. You think they`d be able to find it. So many of us are wondering, OK, TMZ these guys. OK?

Evan Rosenblum, Ray Rice`s attorney, they all had access to the video. So, why didn`t the NFL say to Ray Rice, hey, you better give us the video or

we`re not going to let you play? Here`s what Roger Goodell just told CBS. It`s coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O`DONNELL, CBS NEWS HOST: Did the NFL drop the ball or was the NFL willfully ignorant about what was on this tape?

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: Well, we certainly didn`t know what was on tape, but we have been very open and honest. And I have also from two

weeks ago when I acknowledged that we didn`t get this right. That`s my responsibility and I`m accountable for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, former prosecutor. You know, the prosecutor had this tape. Ray Rice himself had the tape, and you know that he`s going

to get the tape as part of the discovery process. Do you buy that, oh, the NFL, one of the most powerful institutions in the world just couldn`t

figure out a way to get their hands on this tape so they could punish this guy appropriately from the get-go?

HUGHES: No, Jane. I don`t think you can find anybody alive who believes that load of crap, OK? Go ask for it. Ask him for it. He`s your player.

He is a person you`re putting on the field to play not just to play football and make a million of dollars as a franchise, but you`re holding

this man up as a role model to America`s youth. So, before you go ahead and make the big pronouncement that we`re just going to suspend him for two

games, get your ducks in a row.

What are you suspending him for if you haven`t seen the video? If you don`t know what happened, you can`t make any kind of a decision. So,

that`s just a load of b.s. They didn`t do their homework. They didn`t want to know. And now that they have been caught with their pants done, we

have this knee-jerk reaction where we go from a two-game suspension to a lifetime ban. And that`s Goodell trying to cover his own butt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, it`s not a lifetime ban yet. Some people think it should be a lifetime band. But he is suspended indefinitely and that

raises the question, well, if you say to somebody they`re suspended indefinitely, what do you do? Indefinitely isn`t forever. What`s the

ultimate decision is going to be. We`re going to debate that on the other side. Do you think that Ray Rice should be banned for life from football?

Remember, Donald Sterling was banned from the NBA for life for racist comments. This guy slugs his wife, knocks her out cold. Does that warrant

being banned for life, you think? Stay right there. More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, we came out here to the street to find out what should happen to Ray Rice.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Long-term, he should have been arrested and punished because that is assault and battery against a female.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think she should have been prosecuted?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yes, he should have because we have footage of him actually punching his wife out in the elevator.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He should be prosecuted, plain and simple.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecutor did not take him to trial on assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That`s crazy. I mean, how would it be dealt with if it were anybody else?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In her Instagram post today, Janay Rice refers to what happened in that elevator to her as something, quote, "we regret, we

regret." She doesn`t say he regrets. What does she have to regret? She`s the one who got knocked unconscious. Now this kind of echoes the same

theme that she expressed back in May when she made excuses for her abusive partner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANAY PALMER, WIFE OF RAY RICE: I do deeply regret the role that I played in the incident that night, but I can say that I`m happy that we continue

to work through it together. I love Ray and I know he will continue to prove himself to not only you all but the community and I know he will gain

your respect back in due time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This poor woman, this poor woman, look at her. She is the victim here, make no mistake. Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, how do you

explain her behavior and not to blame her, this is part of being a domestic violence victim that quite often part of the entire syndrome is standing up

for the man who has beaten you?

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: My impression, when I look at the tape, first of all, I get the impression that this is not the first time that Ray

has beat up Janay, because she doesn`t look upset when she`s knocked unconscious. I think somebody who perhaps did this for the first time and

knocked out their wife, girlfriend, fiancee unconscious, that would be a very frightening scene. He seems to kind of normalize it. What we see

with Janay is that she loves Ray, she makes him right, and she assigns herself as playing a role in his behavior. And that is not so uncommon for

certain people who find themselves in abusive situations. They say, what did I do? How can I be different so I don`t cause the person I love to

beat me up, to punish me? So, she`s also a participant in the sense that she doesn`t see that she`s in some way going along with this and not

saying, I`m out of here. This is not normal. This is not OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this is what you`re referring to, the callous behavior after he knocks her out. He`s kicking her with his foot to close her legs.

He doesn`t lean down to check her vital signs or anything of that nature. She`s lying there with her legs -- while a bunch of guys walked around. I

mean, Heather Hansen, criminal defense attorney, what does that tell you about his attitude toward her?

HEATHER HANSEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The whole thing shows, I agree with Robi that this has probably happened before. But the tragedy of this

is that she feels as though the system hasn`t supported her. You know, she`s apologizing. And the system, the prosecutor, both of the people that

you talked to on the street there Jane said, this case should have been prosecuted. And for her to say, well, we both regret it, neither of them

paid any criminal price for this. So, if the system is sort of supporting this idea that she`s to blame as well. And I think that`s a big part of

the problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Yvette Cade, domestic violence survivor. Your ex-husband set you on fire. OK? If you want to know, you

can go to YvetteCade.org and learn about some of the important work you do. Do you understand as a survivor of horrific domestic violence -- we`re

going to show the video of when you were literally set on fire by your ex- husband. Do you understand the aspect of domestic violence where a woman will stand up for the man who is abusing her?

YVETTE CADE, DOMESTIC ABUSE SURVIVOR: Yes. I placed myself in her shoes. She`s just trying to keep her family together, continuing the cycle of

abuse. She may be under pressure right now because she`s still in the home with her husband. You don`t know what`s going on. He may have told her to

put that out there on twitter. You know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s a very interesting point.

CADE: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, in other words, she may not be acting of her own volition. She may be under the influence. And, you know, there`s

something called the power and control wheel where they show how women get themselves into a situation where they are so controlled by their husbands.

Essentially, you`re suggesting this Instagram may have been sort of ordered or directed by her husband, who was the one who socked her, who she is

still living with, who she has a child with.

I want to go to Kevin Powell, president of BK Nation. You`ve been very honest. Then you do a lot of important work. And you`ve been honest about

the fact that you were involved in an abusive situation. You were involved in domestic violence. First of all, what does it feel like to be somebody

who commits domestic violence? What does that side of the equation feel like?

KEVIN POWELL, PRESIDENT, BK NATION: Well, number one, I call myself an anti-gender violence activist today. That was 23 years ago. The thing is

that the other guest said that`s very important, you`re talking about two very serious issues here. One, how we as men and boys define manhood. It

often times, it`s about violence, it`s about power. It`s about aggression. It`s about domination. It`s about control. Unless if there`s actually

been intervention in our lives either pre-battering or after batter where we`ve been in serious council where we`ve in take -- we`ve had

conversations and done real serious work around why any form of violence is unacceptable?

The behavior becomes habitual. It goes on and on. The second part of it is watching the responses, looking at what Ms. Janay, his wife, is going

through. That`s classic battered victim`s syndrome, where there`s all these kinds of excuses being made for the batterer. And I think you have

three tragedies happened here. The third tragedy which is the biggest one to me is the patriarchy, the sexism known as the NFL, the Boys Club, the

commissioner, the folks who run the Baltimore Ravens who`ve been trying to cover this up, protect this all along, whether they saw the video or not of

him actually punching out Janay, to me is irrelevant. Just the fact that the first video came out where you saw him dragging her out of the

elevator. She was unconscious. Should have been enough to say that this is unacceptable behavior. But as you all know, Jane and everyone else

there, this has been going on for several years. This is Ben Roethlisberger with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Ray Rice`s teammates --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t want to get into names, because I can`t independently verify everything you`re saying, but I get your point.

I want to go to Holly Hughes, former prosecutor. What do you make of What Yvette Cade said that maybe this Instagram where she basically once again,

continues this esteem of taking some of the blame might have been directed. In other words, she is still living in the home. Either verbally or

subconsciously or nonverbally directed.

HUGHES: Right. And I think that in that point was, that this woman at this point, she is trying to keep her family together. But if I could just

speak to her, what I want to say is, what is your little girl going to learn? Is your little girl going to learn that this behavior is OK? You

know, what? If she wants to keep her family together, that`s her personal business. I don`t know the lady. I`ve never met her, but it cannot

continue like this. She has to say his behavior is inappropriate. Not turn her back and say, it`s my fault. There is no response. You know, we

say that, oh, she spit on him on the video.

Jane, I don`t care if she spit on him. Punching her unconscious is not the appropriate response to being spit on, or cursed at, or anything else. And

what she needs to consider is she is raising a baby girl up in that house. Forgive him, but you know what? Call it what it is. Don`t make excuses

for it. See that he gets the help he needs. See that he answers for it in the criminal justice system, and send the message loud and clear to your

daughter that you are not a punching bag because you`re female.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Twitter, Facebook, exploding on the other side. What you have to say. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOODELL: I think what`s important here is that Ray has taken responsibility for this. He`s been accountable for his actions. He

recognizes he made a horrible mistake that is unacceptable by his standards, by our standards, and he`s got to work to re-establish himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, there`s a cycle of abuse when it comes to domestic violence. There`s the explosion, then, after something

bad happens, there`s the honeymoon phase, you know, the apologies, the flowers. Then, of course, the tension builds up, next explosion. After

Rice exploded in that elevator, he was on best behavior at a news conference where he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY RICE, BALTIMORE RAVENS: My job is to lead my family, my job is to lead my wife. My job is to lead in whatever I do. And if I`m not being the

example, then my family crumbles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, I find it offensive that he`s saying, my job is to lead my wife. He slugged her unconscious.

LUDWIG: I find that very offensive too. But that`s what`s going on in his mind. He`s going to lead her, and if she misbehaves, well, then he is

entitled to punish his wife. But very often with abusive men, we see, that they`re very able to keep it together for the outside world. It`s just the

expectations they of their wives are so extreme and they get punished in such a disastrous way. And we`re seeing that with this man, Ray Rice. And

I think the NFL should punish him. I think he should be made an example of that we have zero tolerance for men who behave this way. If he`s wife

wants to accept it that`s on her, but I don`t think he should have a career that pays him a lot of money where he`s a role model, when he behaves in

such a horrible and dangerous way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I agree with you 100 percent.

POWELL: I also think it`s not just Ray Rice, it`s also Commissioner Roger Goodell. I don`t think he should be the commissioner any longer, because

he is overseeing this situation and other situations like it. I think you`re talking about the leadership of the Baltimore Ravens football team.

They`ve seen this happen and they turned a blind eye to it. They say they`re going to stand by him. And so, you`re talking about a whole bunch

of men who are involved in a situation of quote/unquote, condoning, you know, this type of violence against women and girls. It`s across the

board, so it`s not this one personally --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are talking about a boy`s club. Quickly, who wants to say something?

HANSEN: But Jane, the thing is, we`re talking about the NFL. It`s really not the NFL`s job to be policed or judged. That comes back to the legal

system.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it is! Yes, it is!

HANSEN: But they have a moral --

(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Donald Sterling for life for racist comments, as they should have.

HANSEN: Yes. But, Jane, Jane --

POWELL: It`s a multi-billion dollar industry.

HANSEN: It should have started with the prosecutor in this case. He was never even tried. A grand jury came back with an indictment, a grand jury

of people like you and me, came back with an indictment against him. And the prosecutor in this case, they made a deal. And they put him into a

program that most serious violent criminals are not placed into it. That other people are not placed into --

POWELL: But starting with Commissioner Roger Goodell, if any workplace that should be zero tolerance for any form of violence, any form of

harassment, and that`s not the case with the NFL under the leadership of Roger Goodell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`ve got to go to jump in one second. We`ve got to go to Jackie Taurianen in our hashtag hub. What are the folks at

home saying, because twitter and Facebook are exploding.

JACKIE TAURIANEN, PRODUCER, "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Jane, you are right. Twitter and Facebook are absolutely exploding, especially with two

hashtags. The first is #WhyIStayed. Which is what people are using to explain why getting out of an abusive relationship is not always as simple

as well, this is bad, let me leave. We can take a quick look at an example.

Beverly Gooden (ph) actually started this hashtag says, "All these folks trashing women for staying in abusive situation have no clue what happens

the moment you reach for a door handle." She goes on, "I had to plan my escape for months before I even had a place to go and money for the bus to

get there. #WhyIStayed" Bobby says, #WhyIStayed because I couldn`t stop asking myself, what if this really is the last time. What if I`m giving up

too soon?" Katie says, "Few people believed me. The ones that did blamed me. #WhyIStayed."

The second big hashtag surrounding this is, "WhyILeft." Which is people are using to tell their story of courageous why they were finally able to

leave. Let`s take another example here. K. Waters says, "Because the body bag he promised me became less terrifying than my daughters growing up to

be just like me, #WhyILeft." Miss Jenkins says, #WhyILeft, seeing how scared my son was while he`s watching his father ram his mother`s head into

a door." And he sends, "You are all worthy of real love."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, what? I have to cut you`ve off there. Those were extraordinary. And, you know, I`ve got to go back to Holly

Hughes, former prosecutor. You know, there is an intimidation factor, as long as a woman`s under the same roof and has a child with the man, she`s

really not free, like a hostage, to say whatever she wants to say.

HUGHES: That`s correct, Jane. And statistics will bear this out. That the most dangerous time for a woman is when she makes a decision to leave.

And that hashtag where she says, because you know, I don`t know what was going to happen if I tried to go, you do need to plan ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. I got to say, there`s one other hashtag, #Goodellmustgo. We have to send a message, women have zero tolerance and

we`re speaking up. Nancy, next.

END