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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Did Cops Mistake Movie Star for Prostitute?; Jill Halliburton Su Found Dead in Bathtub
Aired September 15, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight breaking news in a bizarre Florida murder mystery, cops say this woman, Jill Halliburton Su, a relative of the
founder of the billion-dollar Halliburton oil empire, was found murdered in the bathtub of her mansion in an upscale gated community. Who murdered
this beautiful mother and popular philanthropist and why?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely unspeakable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was supposed to be here on Tuesday. But no one knew the reason for her absence until news emerged she had been murdered
inside her Davie home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have executed a search warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We expected to see her yesterday. Pretty devastating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say it all started when Jill`s husband, a prominent professor, tried to use his work computer to watch the live feed of
security cameras at the family`s Davie, Florida, estate where he and his wife live. That`s about 12 miles outside Ft. Lauderdale.
When he realized the home surveillance camera live feed was down, the professor immediately called his eldest son to check on his wife, Jill.
When the son arrived at his parents` home, he finds a glass door broken, a room ransacked, and his mom dead in the bathtub.
Cops are not releasing the cause of death yet. The initial call, interesting, came in as a suicide. Really? With the room ransacked? But
cops quickly realized Jill was murdered. They have no suspects tonight, but they haven`t eliminated anybody as a suspect either.
Listen to this from "GMA."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial call came in as a possible suicide, but it became evident that this was not a suicide but, in fact, a homicide. I
don`t want to say anybody has been ruled out as a suspect, but this is an active investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think? Why would anybody want to kill this very popular mom? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Could it have anything to do
with her name, Halliburton? 1-877-586-7297. Join the conversation by going to my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page or you can talk to me on
Twitter, @JVM.
The Lion`s Den, our expert panel, fired up. But first straight out to reporter Mark Starling. Mark, you`re all over this case. What is the very
latest?
MARK STARLING, REPORTER (via phone): You know, Jane, both the father and the son were questioned extensively, according to police, and now they
haven`t been ruled out as suspects, but neither one retained lawyers. So at this point neither one of them seem to be necessarily on that suspect
list.
You know, friends have commented that they don`t think that the husband or the son could be involved in this. It`s just a very random case in an area
of Florida that`s extremely, extremely nice. This house, as we saw in the pictures, just a beautiful home. So for something to happen like this in
that kind of neighborhood really, you know, lots of questions still unanswered at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that one of the keys is right there in her name. Jill Halliburton Su. Everybody knows the word Halliburton, and they
know it equates to lots of money and sometimes controversy.
Is it possible that somebody assumed she was an heiress, assumed that she was extraordinarily wealthy, based just on that name? People do it all the
time. You got a name like Rockefeller or Halliburton, people assume you`ve have money going out the wazoo.
This woman was a philanthropist. She did enjoy reading to the blind. We really do not know what the extent of her wealth was. This from "Good
Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jen was born to a poor family on November 12, 1971.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There she is reading to the blind. HLN law- enforcement analyst Mike Russ, she was the grand-niece of the founder of the Halliburton oil empire. That`s a lot of family money.
Do you think somebody might have murdered her in an attempt to perhaps get access to that money? But I think, you know, when you think about the
surveillance cameras being down, that, to me, says somebody who is rather sophisticated, not a common criminal just barging in there and making a
mess in a room.
BROOKS: Well, that`s the question. When did the system go down? You know, that`s all part of the timeline.
And you know, of course, the one thing they`re going to do, Jane, as we always talk about, they`re going to take a look at the people who are
closest to the victim. The husband and his son, who came in and discovered her in the tub.
First, when I heard tub, body, maybe suicide first. First thing I thought about was Drew Peterson. But there`s only one way in and one way out of
this gated community. So were they able to glean, possibly, any other visual evidence from maybe some other people`s surveillance cameras? Maybe
surveillance cameras there in the neighborhood? That remains to be seen.
But only one room ransacked. What was in that particular room? What room was that? Was there a safe there? Was there valuable jewelry? Why
weren`t other rooms ransacked? Just a lot of questions and also that all important timeline.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, when I find out there`s a glass door is broken, a room is ransacked. She`s in a tub and
it`s initially reported as a suicide. Hello, you don`t break your door when you`re going to commit suicide.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. And so that just screams that there was a lot of staging going on, because you want to make it look like
something that it wasn`t. It`s just not the picture that would be there if it were either a suicide or, frankly, an intruder, you know, out to
maliciously kill her for whatever reason. Those two things don`t go together.
Having said that, when you have a lot of money, there are lots of different potential motives. Is she -- does she stand to inherit or did she just
recently inherit? I know her father died about a year ago. That could mean she came into a lot of money recently. Who gains money when you die?
Your heirs. Does she have a will? Did she promise in that will to give lots of money to one of these foundations that she volunteers for? You`ve
got to think about that question.
There`s no doubt that, if you want money from a rich person and you`re just a bad guy running around breaking into houses, you can`t kill them. You`ve
got to kidnap them maybe, but you don`t kill them, because you`re not going to get a dime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Abby, there`s a big question as to how much money she did or did not have. The house was purchased for half a million
dollars, which you know, is chump change in today`s high-flying real-estate market when you`re dealing with millionaires. It was apparently worth a
million. So you might say, well, if she was a real heiress, she wouldn`t be in a house that modest, even though it`s considered a mansion or an
estate.
But then, you know that people with really old money often disguise their wealth; and those are the people most likely, sometimes, to be driving
around in beaten-up cars, because they don`t want people to know how rich they are.
Let`s go out to the phones. Debbie, New York. What do you have to say about this, Debbie, New York?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. First thing I said was Peterson. I agree with Mike Brooks. I was under the impression that her husband from work had some
kind of remote that she -- that he watched the house inside the house. Is that correct?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let me -- let me get to that. First of all, again, there are no suspects. Nobody is ruled out as a suspect. But we
just want to give you the facts of this case.
Jill was married to a prominent professor at the University of Florida, who asked his eldest son to check on his wife after he was unable to watch home
surveillance video from the office. It`s a very, very well-respected professor. And again, not considered a suspect whatsoever. Here`s video
of the professor`s work from YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAN YAO SU, HUSBAND OF JILL HALLIBURTON SU: The main focus of this laboratory is to do the research on the biology and control of
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And friends of the couple say they are very happy. They`re a happy family. You see them there smiling. Police say
they`ve interviewed the husband at length. He is fully cooperative. And we`ve tried to reach the husband, haven`t been able to.
So let me -- let me switch gears here a little bit and ask this question of J. Wyndal Gordon. What might be the many reasons -- he`s at work, and he`s
trying to access the home surveillance cameras. And there could be many reasons that might have triggered him to check up on the security system at
home.
Is it possible that his wife said she saw somebody who looked odd or suspicious around the home? Maybe she`d expressed fear of somebody
recently?
J. WYNDAL GORDON, ATTORNEY: Well, that could very well be. I mean, we`re all shooting in the dark.
However, with these cameras, some people just like to tinker around at work. They`re not very busy at work, and looking at your home video camera
is like looking through -- strolling through Facebook or Twitter or something like that. He`s probably just using the time idly to see what
was going on at his home.
When he realized that the cameras were down, then it startled him. And I think he should be. It seems to be the work of someone who knows the
family or who may be even a part of the family. Perhaps someone who may have a drug problem, who ransacked the room because that`s where they
thought the drugs -- I mean, that`s where they thought money could be and ended up killing her in the long run. It just, to me, it seems like it`s
somebody who the family knows under the circumstances.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does -- what does it say about -- and I understand your point, J. Wyndal. What does it say, Wendy Murphy, about her being in
the tub, I mean, and this initial report of, well, it was a suicide. And then police lickety-split realize no, it`s a homicide. I mean, why the tub
and what might have been her condition in the tub that would have initially led somebody to think, "Oh, suicide"?
MURPHY: Well, I mean, look, it strikes me that there had to have been a lot of blood. And the idea that there were perhaps indicators, I don`t
know, slicing of the wrists or something.
But if you`re in the tub and somebody thinks it`s suicide, No. 1, they have to think that you were contemplating suicide, because you wouldn`t assume
that if your mother was otherwise happy. Right?
And the notion of dying in the tub, it really suggests that there was -- you know, that she was either there taking a bath and that was ordinary and
then the thing happened while she was in there, or, again, that this was some attempt to cover up the evidence.
And I can imagine wanting to wash off some of the evidence. I can imagine wanting to interfere with perhaps something that might be toxic in the
lungs. Was she underwater or above water? These are important questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to jump in and say...
GORDON: I don`t think she died right off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... from the air this house does look quite, quite large. And by the way, if you take a look there, authorities are diving into the
lake in the area in the hopes of finding evidence that might have been discarded. So what does that tell you, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: Well, they live right on the water. So is there a possibility that the people could have approached the house from the water? You know,
we had that murder here in Reynolds Plantation just outside of Atlanta, and that`s still unsolved, where the perpetrators came from the lake and into
the house.
So, again, how -- I want to know where the window was broken. Was it broken right there by possibly the little dock? We see a pool in the back.
But the condition of the body, we do not know a cause of death as of yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And you know, the name Halliburton is a famous name. It came up during the Iraq war. It came up during the Deepwater Horizon
disaster. This is a massive company traded on the New York Stock Exchange. She was the grand-niece of the founder. But he died more than a half a
century ago. We have no knowledge whatsoever that she inherited anything. She wasn`t a direct descendant. She was a grand-niece.
All right. We`re going to stay on top of this case.
Don`t forget to check out my Facebook page. Please do me a favor, like it while you`re there. And we got to tell you, coming up, boy, have we got a
story for you. A "Naked Truth." Did LAPD officers mistake a Hollywood star for a hooker? And did they cause this injury you`re looking at here?
Wait until you hear the tape of this sobbing actress begging cops to leave her alone. You won`t believe it. It`s the "Naked Truth" on the other
side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight`s "Naked Truth," another case of alleged racial profiling, except this one involves a Hollywood movie star. You may know
her from the hit TV show "We" and the Oscar-winning movie "Django Unchained."
Actress Danielle Watts is outraged, after she was handcuffed and detained by cops in L.A. after refusing to show her I.D. Danielle claims cops
racially profiled her and thought she was a hooker after kissing her white boyfriend in their car outside CBS Studios in Studio City.
Now, Danielle says she was fully clothed, just showing affection to her boyfriend, celebrity chef Brian Lucas, when two cops approached them.
Officers say they were simply responding to a 911 call complaining that a man and a woman were involved in, quote, "indecent exposure," allegedly a
sexual act in their Mercedes with the car door open.
Danielle insists they were just making out like any other couple. So which version is the truth? Listen closely to brand-new audio of Danielle`s very
fiery angry exchange with the officer from TMZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody called the police saying there was lewd acts in the car.
DANIELLE WATTS, ACTRESS: There was no lewd acts happening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t matter. I have to I.D. you.
WATTS: We`re not doing anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody called.
WATTS: I`m on the phone with my dad. This is my boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I want to see your I.D. Somebody called, which gives me the right to be here. So it gives me the right to identify you.
WATTS: Do you know how many times I`ve been called, the cops have been called just because I`m black? Because we`re black? I`m just being really
honest, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who brought up the race card?
WATTS: I`m bringing it up, because I have every right to be here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said nothing about you being black. And I have every right to ask your I.D.
WATTS: I have every right to say no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you do have every right to say no.
WATTS: And if you`d like -- if you`d like to demand it, you can take me down to the court office, and I can make a scene about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WATTS: I mean, I want to have a publicist and I work...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m mildly interested. I`m mildly interested you have a publicist, but I`m going to get your I.D.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. LAPD doing an internal investigation. My "Naked Truth" panel standing by, ready to fight this one out.
Cops, again, say they were legitimately responding to complaints. Danielle says she was targeted because of her race.
Straight out to Mike Walters, news manager, TMZ. TMZ broke this story. What do you know? Was it sex in the car with the door open, or was it two
couples -- a couple, a man and a woman who happened to be black and white, making out?
MIKE WALTERS, NEWS MANAGER, TMZ: Well, Jane, to start, this young lady was very quick to go to the media, to tell her story, to put up the video and
make it clear that the LAPD is racist, that the only reason she was targeted was because she`s a black woman, he`s a white male. And the lewd
acts that were committed in the car. Basically, she`s saying that the LAPD targeted her because she looked like a prostitute. And that`s in her
words.
The problem with her story, Jane, is we got a hold of the audio, which you just heard, which clearly paints a different story. This officer is calm.
He says, "Listen, we got a 911 call." Which I can confirm to you. Came in. That said that there was somebody having sexual relations in a car.
Specifically what`s not in that audio, Jane, is that someone was straddling another person, and they could actually see with the door open a sexual act
going on in broad daylight in a crowded area.
So when you listen to that audio clearly, the officer is calm. He does have the right to I.D. her, especially if a call comes in for lewd acts.
She plays the race card. She brings up the other stuff.
I don`t know, Jane, we did a poll on our website.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike...
WALTERS: At the end of the day, 90 percent of the people say it`s her drumming this up, not the officer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to ask you. And by the way, congrats on another big scoop. You`ve got -- you`re on quite a roll, TMZ. But I have to ask
you a key question: Was it more than one caller saying that there was sex going on or just one person who may have been motivated by racial animus to
report this couple?
WALTERS: Great point, Jane. I can only confirm one call. You have a great point. But the one call did say, like I said, they could see actual
sexual relations with the door open, and they described it as something lewd.
So the officer does his job, and you can tell by the audio, he`s just asking for an I.D. He doesn`t even say he`s going to arrest her or she did
anything wrong. They check your I.D. for warrants or for what you`re doing in the area, depending on your I.D.
I think she goes straight to race and straight to "I`m black; my boyfriend is white." I`m not sure it would have gone that direction, Jane, if she
just would have given her I.D.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Always great to hear from you, Mike Walters. News manager, TMZ.
Let`s bring in our "Naked Truth" panel. I want to start with J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney. At warrior warrior (ph).
GORDON: Well, thank you very much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Should she have just given the cops her I.D.? Is this really a racial incident?
GORDON: Heck no. First of all, when do prostitutes kiss in a car? When do they kiss anybody? The answer is no.
BROOKS: Second what?
GORDON: The answer is no. Second of all, I don`t care what the caller said. What did the officer see? If the officer saw two people in the car,
not engaged in any criminal conduct, he didn`t have the right to do anything. There was nothing to do.
BROOKS: Oh, yes, he did, Counselor.
GORDON: No, he didn`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. I`m going to get to Mike Brooks in one moment. Finish your point.
GORDON: There was nothing -- there was nothing unusual about a male and a woman in a car.
The officer didn`t see.
BROOKS: You don`t know what you`re talking about.
GORDON: I know everything about what I`m talking about, sir.
BROOKS: Yes, OK.
GORDON: Everything, Mike. Trust me. I`ve done more of this than you have.
BROOKS: I don`t know about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s not get personal. Let`s not get personal. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
GORDON: All I`m saying is this: it doesn`t matter what the caller said.
BROOKS: Yes, it does.
GORDON: No, it doesn`t. No, it doesn`t. Can law enforcement just say, oh, OK, we`re not going out there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You obviously think it`s -- hold on one second. OK. You think, J. Wyndal, it is a racial incident and the cop was wrong.
GORDON: Absolutely. Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, what do you think?
BROOKS: If somebody calls the police, what are the police supposed to do? Are they not supposed to go and investigate that?
Her boyfriend, when they asked for I.D., he showed his I.D. And then she goes right to the race card.
And also, when asked on "NEW DAY" on CNN this morning exactly what they were doing, she wouldn`t say. She kind of talked her way around that.
He had every reasonable suspicion to ask her for her I.D. because of the call to 911.
GORDON: What was the reasonable suspicion that he actually saw?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
BROOKS: Because there could have been -- because of the call...
GORDON: No, what was his observation?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: OK. You know everything. I`ll let you talk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. One at a time.
BROOKS: He knows everything, Jane. Let`s let him tell it.
GORDON: I know something -- I know everything about this.
BROOKS: No, you don`t.
Were you there?
GORDON: He can`t articulate reasonable suspicion. You just can`t say reasonable suspicion and then just go for it. That`s not...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: J. Wyndal, I have to ask you a provocative question.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on one second. Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: Yes. Yes, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy, go for it.
GORDON: Hey, Mike, I love you, but you`re wrong.
BROOKS: No, you`re not. No, I`m not.
MURPHY: Boys, boys, boys. Take it down a notch.
BROOKS: Boys, people.
MURPHY: First of all, the first person -- the first person described what the caller said was the actress, who said in a news story I read and then a
white guy, Caucasian guy comes out of the building, and he sees us in the car and he says, "Can you do that someplace else. We`re trying to work
around here and everybody is looking at you in the car doing the nookie." Right? Or whatever he called it. I don`t know what he called it. But he
said, "We don`t want to watch you having sex in the car. Can you knock it off?" He didn`t say, "You`re black" or "I think you`re a hooker."
GORDON: So they knocked it off.
MURPHY: The guy called 911.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let her finish.
MURPHY: The cop showed up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who calls 911?
MURPHY: Nobody said -- nobody said, "There`s a black woman. I think she`s a hooker, in the car having sex with a guy."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not true, actually. I`ve got to get.
MURPHY: There`s a couple having sex in the car. And that`s illegal.
BROOKS: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no, no. OK. I have to correct you. Hold on. I have to correct you in the sense that Officer Sally Madeira said, quote, "There
was an indication on the radio call that a male white and a female black were involved in a sexual act inside a Mercedes with the vehicle door
open," end quote. So I`m just saying that race was mentioned by the law enforcement.
BROOKS: That was the lookout. When asked to describe who was involved in it, in the vehicle, that`s what was told.
GORDON: Mike, if you`re in the car with your wife and you share a kiss...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guys, one at a time.
BROOKS: So someone holds up a bank, we`re not supposed to give a description of who perpetrated a crime?
GORDON: Mike, if you`re in the car with your wife and you share a kiss...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve got to do it one at a time. One at a time. One at a time.
MURPHY: Jane, it`s standard protocol -- standard for the police to say when they get a 911 call and they`re describing something, are they black,
white or Hispanic? That`s a requirement.
BROOKS: Thank you.
MURPHY: It`s not racism.
GORDON: Nobody says that`s a racism card.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about other ethnicities? First of all, I always like to point out that Hispanic isn`t a race. It is an ethnicity, and we love
the fact there are all colors of the rainbow...
MURPHY: Agreed. But that`s the requirement.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... in the 28 countries that comprise Hispanic countries.
BROOKS: Thank you, professor.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what about -- what about other ethnicities? What about other ethnicities? Here`s the question that I have. First of all,
we`re going to take a short break. Is it illegal to have sex in your car?
BROOKS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve been asking...
BROOKS: In public.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... a variety of answers -- a variety of answers on that subject.
And we`re also going to check in with Yacky (ph) Jackie, Jackie Geranium (ph) and the hash tag hub. Because people are en fuego talking about this.
Stay right there. We`re going to be right back in a second. We`re just getting started. What do you think?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTS: If we`re a country that`s supposed to be representing freedom and equality for all, then I think that our police officers should be trained
in treating people with that sort of dignity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DANIELE WATTS, ACTOR: If we`re a country that`s supposed to be representing freedom and equality for all, then I think that our police
officers should be trained in treating people with that sort of dignity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did that couple have illegal hot sex in a car with the door open or were they just having an innocent make-out? There`s
disagreement about that. This whole thing went down just outside CBS in Studio City in Los Angeles where Daniele is filming a project. Let`s
listen again to a key part of her argument with the cop who asked for her I.D. and she said no. This is from TMZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have every right to ask her I.D.
WATTS: And I have every right to say no. If you`d like to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you do not have every right to say no.
WATTS: And if you`d like to demand it -- you can take me down to the court office and I can make a scene about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WATTS: I mean I went out of a publicist and I want --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not interested you have a publicist. But I`m going to get your I.D.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the idea when she mentions the publicist thing, she kind of loses me. J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney, there are those cynics who
were saying maybe this was a publicity stunt on her part or maybe she was using her stardom to make a political point.
But here`s my question. If indeed this wasn`t a racial incident by claiming it`s a racial incident, do you hurt real victims of racial
profiling by trivializing the entire issue?
J. WYNDAL GORDON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Publicity stunt is absurd. First of all, if he`s there to investigate lewd or sexual activity in the
car, I at least expect for him to see something. How is he going to investigate? What -- he`s going to go around smelling their fingers or
something? This is absolutely --
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh, God.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oh, really?
GORDON: Yes, oh, God. What is he going to do?
How is he going to investigate it? When he got there, there was no sex acts going on. He`s got a phone call. You see two people in the car and
they`re not doing anything but talking. So why are you messing with these guys? Nothing to see here -- why are you messing with these people?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Dr. Cheryl Arutt, you`re a forensic psychologist, you`re seeing her. She`s doing the rounds on news media. Is this a
publicity stunt? Was it real racial profiling or is she using her fame to make a political point?
DR. CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, first of all, I think there is racism in someone making a 911 call about seeing a couple in a car
when they weren`t concerned about sexual assault, they weren`t concerned about somebody being hurt. When the police officer showed up, he was
appropriate and calm in the way that he spoke to her asking for her I.D. But in California, she absolutely does have the right not to produce her
I.D. unless she`s charged with a crime.
And I think when she --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait, Mike Brooks, you disagree with that. You`re thinking that she has a legal obligation to present her I.D. I want to
clear this up once and for all.
BROOKS: If they received a call and the description of the vehicle and the description of the two people inside, even if they weren`t doing anything,
he still has an obligation to investigate whether or not a crime was committed. Thus, he would go ahead and ask them for identification to
identify the people who possibly may, could have been the victim or perpetrator of a crime inside that Mercedes.
So yes, he does have the right because of him going there he does have the right to ask them for identification.
GORDON: If the car is legally parked --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: YackyJackie in the hash tag hub -- Jackie.
GORDON: -- a misdemeanor.
JACKIE TAURIANEN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, you`re right. I have been monitoring the Facebook and Twitter pages all day today. Let me tell you,
no matter what side people are falling on this, they`re passionate about it.
Let`s take a look at a few of our viewer comments. Dwight says, "Daniele Watts, you`re the woman. #DjangoUnchained, #SpeakYourMind."
Renkian shared this photo with us and said "This film was a creative script. This is real life."
Sonia had to say "A lot of white folks are saying Daniele Watts should have just shown her I.D. It just shows they have no clue what it`s like to be
abused by cops."
And then you have people on the other side of this. Like Chris saying "People are seriously calling Chef Be Live and Daniele Watts brave.
There`s nothing brave about not following simple directions. #fail."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
TAURIANEN: I`ve got me one more good sampling.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, one more. Go for it.
TAURIANEN: So we have Judy and she`s saying "This is an obvious play for a publicity stunt by this actress and her goofy boyfriend. Shame, shame,
Daniele Watts." This just goes back to what you`re saying.
Was this for a publicity or was this an actual incident that needs to be addressed?
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The reactions are all over the map. We`re going to take a short break. On the other side, is it illegal to have sex in a car? Stay
right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Let me ask you, why not? Extrapolate on that a little bit more Daniele because I think some people might not understand
why you wouldn`t just easily give him your I.D. And let them carry on their way and you on yours?
WATTS: Well, it`s because I believe in America and what it stands for and I believe in freedom. And I think that a country that calls itself the
land of the free and the home of the brave, if I`m within my amendment rights, my constitutional rights to say no, unless you`re charging me with
a crime, I will not be giving you my I.D.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN LUCAS: In the beginning he came up and said I had a call that there was a black and white couple. He`s the one that actually brought that up.
He was definitely like edging me on a bunch as well. Like when he pulled up, he asked me questions that no, he didn`t ask me directly about the fact
that I -- it just made me feel like I was like a client and she was a prostitute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think, Mike Brooks, that that feeling that he had was justified?
BROOKS: Well, the chef can`t even finish a statement of exactly what was said. So it`s kind of hard to interpret what was really said because all
this "prostitute/client" talk is coming from them.
MURPHY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is it illegal to have sex in a car, yes or no, Wendy Murphy?
BROOKS: Where is the recording of the conversation with him?
MURPHY: Well, listen. Let me say this about what`s legal and illegal. Because I`m torturing myself trying to understand why they think they
shouldn`t be explaining, number one, what they were doing. Number two, why they were doing it in the car with the door open in the middle of the day.
Children --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe they were just making out.
GORDON: It`s called constitutional right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My question is it illegal to have sex --
MURPHY: They were clearly not making out. Here`s the law. Here`s the law. You cannot --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quickly.
MURPHY: Engage in sex in public. But it`s a hard crime to prove if one of the people doesn`t say which part was going where. And they don`t have any
evidence unless one or the other says what was happening.
GORDON: So why accost these people at all?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quickly, Lisa, New Jersey.
LISA, NEW JERSEY: I`m a police officer. And your guess is misinformed. As a police officer --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Which one?
LISA: -- I can pull over anybody and ask for I.D. And why isn`t your guest happy that he went over to that vehicle to check out the big white
guy maybe possibly raping the young black girl?
BROOKS: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. J. Wyndal I want to give you a couple seconds to respond.
GORDON: Well, you know --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: J. Wyndal 10 seconds.
GORDON: Law enforcement officers often get the law wrong and enforce it improperly. If you don`t observe any sex acts going on, yes, sure you can
ask questions and sure, you can request an I.D. And just like she says, she has a right not to give it to you. And that`s part of your job too.
Accept it.
Now you want to ask, what`s going on? Nothing. Ok. Then what else are you going to do? As I said what type of evidence do you have that any sex
acts are going on? Are you going to start to investigate? Are you going to grab them by the hands and do some of the stuff that we talked about
earlier.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Guess what -- we`ve got to leave it there. We`ve got to leave it there. Food for thought. Wow.
Another controversy next and these guys are going to jump on this one, too. An NFL superstar arrested; accused of beating his 4-year-old son. Was it
abuse or just good old-fashioned discipline? You decide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s in the middle of a seven-year deal with the team with a whopping maximum of $100 million. His face is on today`s tickets.
But it`s also yesterday`s mugshot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adrian Peterson, star running back for the Minnesota Vikings, deactivated after he was indicted on felony child abuse charges
for whipping his four-year-old son repeatedly with a switch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s personal life. I care about what he does on the field. That`s all I care about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn`t do anything bad. He just disciplined his kid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another NFL star in hot water after shocking abuse allegations. Star Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson charged
with tonight felony child abuse for admittedly hitting his son with a switch.
Now this is a photo -- we`re about to show you the four-year-old`s injuries. Look at that from TMZ and the child`s mom allegedly took this
photo, days after the incident. Reports claim Peterson grabbed a tree branch, removed the leaves and put the leaves in the child`s mouth and then
hit him with the branch.
The Vikings forced Peterson to sit out yesterday`s game but he will be able to play next Sunday. Should he be allowed to play next Sunday? He turned
himself in to Texas authorities Saturday. He got out on $15,000 bond. His arraignment set for next month.
Making all this more shocking, Peterson`s two-year-old son, another son was allegedly beaten to death by his mom`s boyfriend last year -- physically
disciplining a child is legal in Texas. But a grand jury decided Peterson went too far. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASST. D.A. PHIL GRANT, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, TEXAS: Obviously, parents are entitled to discipline their children as they see fit except for when that
discipline exceeds what the community would say is reasonable. And so a grand jury having indicted this case looked at the injuries that were
inflicted upon this child and determined that that discipline was not reasonable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, should this guy be charged with felony child abuse as he is? Should he be convicted? He
could go to jail for up to two years.
MURPHY: Well, I`m not sure he`ll go to jail at all. I do think he deserves to be charged and I -- frankly, I hope he`s convicted. Here`s
why. I don`t buy it for a minute. I do have some compassion for the guy because he felt bad right away. And I think that`s a good sign. He`s not
trying to cover it up. That`s good.
But the fact that he was abused as a child is no excuse. And that`s what he`s been saying. That bothers me. Most people who are abused as children
go out of their way not to abuse their own children because they know how bad it is, number one.
Number two, let`s be clear. Violent men are abusive either women or children, not because of things that happened to them in childhood but
because they have been raised to believe they can do what they want, especially when they`re millionaire NFL players. And they know they`re not
going to be held accountable and they act on impulse and they don`t care about consequences.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. J. Wyndal Gordon.
MURPHY: I think he has to face consequences.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He said this was just the same kind of discipline he experienced growing up in east Texas. Is that an excuse?
GORDON: It is not an excuse. But it certainly is an explanation. Quite frankly, I have some compassion for Adrian Peterson. Look, there`s no
manual to raising children. Did he cross the line? Absolutely. Did he go too far? He absolutely did. You can discipline your child. Corporal
punishment is legal in most states, certainly here where I practice law.
However, I`m looking toward education and parenting classes. I think that`s the best way to resolve this case. I`m willing to bet you that
that`s how this case will be resolved. I don`t want him to be convicted. He doesn`t need a G on his record. He maybe should get something short of
a conviction. In Maryland we have probation before judgment and I`m sure they have something in Minnesota similar.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sorry, I have to say. It`s a four-year-old boy, ok?
GORDON: Yes, I get it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If this allegation, the thing that bothers me the most, Dr. Cheryl Arutt if indeed -- and we cannot independently confirm this so I
just want to make that clear. But if indeed he stuck the leaves of this tree branch that he was using to hit the son -- in the boy`s mouth, to me
that`s humiliation and degradation and that puts it in a whole other category of sinister.
ARUTT: Jane, there`s no question that this is abuse. And when you think about a huge, powerful football player and a little four-year-old boy
especially when this man lost another son to child abuse, it`s a horrific image. But what I think we need to look at here is that pro athletes
understand that they need training in order to master and excel in their sport. Well guess what, they also need training in alternatives to
violence so they can leave the violence on the field and manage conflict effectively at home.
Let`s not mix up batterers and domestic violence and child abuse. This is a repetition of trauma and he needs new tools.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, people are mixing it up. They`re saying what`s going on --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. I got to say, the photos were a shock to me when I saw them. Adrian Peterson admits that he used a switch on his four-year-
old son. Look at those marks. Now, the Vikings forced Peterson to sit out yesterday`s game but he is going to be allowed to play next Sunday.
Meanwhile, he`s been indicted on a charge of felony child abuse. He`s going have to face a jury.
Look at these images. I`m sorry. I don`t believe that this is discipline. I believe this is abuse, and I don`t think that he should be allowed to
play next Sunday. That`s saying basically, given what happened to Ray Rice that child abuse is not as important as the abuse of a woman. They are
both horrible, Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: Yes, they are. I don`t want to compare and contrast. And we`ve never valued children`s and women`s lives enough. I hope -- I hope his
teammates no matter what happens in terms of the NFL shame him relentlessly because not only is he a brute and won`t be perceived well -- look, we, the
New England Patriots, kicked their butt because he wasn`t there and that cost the team a lot and he should suffer shame for that too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what part of Minnesota Vikings star Chris Carter said on ESPN yesterday. Let`s listen to him and then we`ll debate this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CARTER, MINNESOTA VIKINGS: You can`t beat a kid to make him do what they want to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
CARTER: Take him off the dang old field because you know what -- as a man, that`s the only thing we really respect. We don`t respect no women. We
don`t respect no kids. The only thing Roger can do is take them off the field because they respect that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: J. Wyndal Gordon, how is it possible that this guy is going to be allowed to play next Sunday given all of this? Should he be
fired?
GORDON: Absolutely not. He`s a professional. He should be able to put these things behind him and focus on the game for the good of the team.
And you know, he`s suffered enough. He made a mistake. You know, you all want to demonize him and have this visceral response to what you see in the
photographs --
MURPHY: Damn right.
GORDON: That`s your opinion. However, I feel quite differently and I`m sure I`m not alone out here. His livelihood has nothing to do with what`s
going on in the home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But J. Wyndal, he was only off the field for one game. How can you say he suffered enough?
GORDON: That is enough. That is enough because he`s still got to deal with court. He`s still going to have to deal with whatever the court
intends to do with him. There will be punishment meted out. He`s not going to get off the hook.
For people not to be allowed to make mistakes even in parenting -- and yes this went over the line but it doesn`t --
MURPHY: It`s not a mistake. Abuse is not a mistake.
GORDON: -- it should not affect a man -- it was a mistake. And you know what --
MURPHY: No, abuse is intentional.
GORDON: It`s going to hurt the child more -- it`s going to hurt the child more if he loses his pay and he can`t take care of his children. So now
his livelihood cannot be affected by this --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My producer points out it took longer for his injuries to heal than he was off the field. So what kind of message Dr. Cheryl Arutt
would that send to others who are using stuff -- a whip, a tree branch to discipline their children?
GORDON: It`s wrong. It`s wrong but he`ll get through it.
ARUTT: Here`s the message. Here`s the problem that I just want to say. Zero tolerance policies do not work because if we make it worse for people
to come forward, it doesn`t make anybody safer and this stuff goes underground. What we need to do is link being able to play with getting
help for the behaviors that are not ok to get things safer.
For example, with Rice, if Rice loses his livelihood, Janay is not safer. That baby is not safer. That all gets worse and it makes the NFL wives
want to cover up for violence and abuse.
MURPHY: Oh come on.
ARUTT: We need to -- I`m not saying the abuse is ok Wendy but we need to - -
GORDON: I agree with the doctor.
MURPHY: All right. That is not humane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got ten seconds. What do you have to say, Wendy?
GORDON: She said it`s not humane. I don`t think anyone disagrees with that.
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: Look, you just can`t just factor into the value of the business of sports, whether you can afford to beat the hell out of a woman or child.
GORDON: Poor people abuse too, Wendy.
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: You`re not a man -- you are not a man if you do --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re absolutely right about that, J. Wyndal. Abuse knows is no economic or social boundaries, but it`s got to stop.
Nancy is next.
END
