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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Where is Hannah Graham?; Another Racial Profiling Case? Utah Teen Shot by Police Six Times; Robin Thicke`s "Blurred Lines" Confession
Aired September 16, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, that`s just my little evangelizing to you, for what it`s worth.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, brand-new information in the desperate, frantic search to find a beautiful missing University of
Virginia student. Cops just released these surveillance photos taken at the missing woman`s apartment just hours before she vanished. Look at this
beautiful young lady. Where is she? Did a stranger abduct Hannah Graham when she was walking home from a party, albeit intoxicated?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live. Let`s help her family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re really concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late Friday night, investigators say Hannah and a friend went to a party just a few blocks from her house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unusual for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around 1 a.m., investigators say Hannah`s phone either died or was turned off. No one has heard from her since.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s frightening. This isn`t something that happens often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Investigators say 18-year-old Hannah Graham was last seen early last Saturday morning leaving a party on foot. This was around
midnight. Now, according to cops, Hannah was drunk, and a male friend offered to walk her home, but she told him no. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had been drinking quite a bit. She told him that she was leaving and going home. He asked if he could walk her home. She
said no, she was fine. He stayed. She left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Friends say Hannah texted them after she left the party, and everybody seemed OK, because she seemed fine. But then, at 1:20 in the
morning, Hannah sent friends her text: an alarming message, saying she was lost. And then she proceeded to vanish into thin air. Her phone was
either turned off or it went dead. And nobody has heard from Hannah since that early Saturday morning text.
Then, in an unfortunate delay, her friends didn`t actually report her missing since Sunday. We`re talking about 36 hours after that final text,
where Hannah said she was lost. What happened to Hannah Graham?
Call me. We want to help her devastated, frantic family: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. We want to find this girl and bring her home. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Please, join the conversation. Go to my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page. Or you can talk to me on Twitter at my handle, @JVM.
Now our expert Lion`s Den panel is ready to debate. They`re standing by. But first, straight out to WVIR reporter Henry Graff, who is on the ground
in Charlottesville, Virginia, where Hannah disappeared. Henry, you are all over this. What is the very latest?
HENRY GRAFF, REPORTER, WVIR (via phone): Yes, Jane. What we know right now is a Virginia state police chopper is in the sky retracing the steps of
a blood hound that was brought out today in the search for Hannah Graham. The FBI is now involved in this case.
And new today, we also heard told surveillance video places Hannah in front of a restaurant in Charlotte. So a half hour after she had last been
reported to be seen. So those are the new developments we`re working with right now here in Charlottesville, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Vinnie Parco, private investigator, the trouble with bloodhounds is they can`t follow a vehicle. If this was a stranger
abduction, God forbid, but it kind of has signs of that, and she was taken in a car, bloodhounds are relatively useless. Am I correct or not, Vinnie?
VINNIE PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR (via phone): You`re correct. I believe she was picked up by some guy in the car. He must have saw the way she was
dressed. She was walking funny. She looked drunk or she was staggering. And he might have picked her up and dropped her off somewhere. That`s
where she was lost. Now it`s possible that she could be far away from her house and still be missing and be alive, but I don`t know. After so many
days, I doubt it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, if her family is watching, we want to help. We don`t want to add to their heartache. We want to try to find her OK and
alive and bring her back, but you raised an important point.
Lisa Bloom, legal analyst, Avvo.com, if indeed she was lost -- and the evidence is that she essentially went in a big circle. She left the party
after midnight, shortly after; ends up being seen walking around a pub. And then, when she texts that she is lost, she`s back around the area of
the party, which is also near where she lives off campus of the University of Virginia. So is it possible that somebody might have said, "Hey, I`ll
give you a ride. You`re lost? Let me help you out."
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Well, that`s very possible, Jane. It`s possible that, God forbid, she passed out somewhere and she hasn`t
been found, but certainly, I think all the indications are foul play, that she was abducted, that she was taken by someone.
Listen, I don`t want to blame any victims here, but I do want to give lessons for young people. If your friend is drunk, you walk her home. It
doesn`t matter if she objects. If it`s a woman alone, you walk her all the way home. It doesn`t matter if she objects. And if somebody is missing,
you`ve got to call 911 right away, because the first 24 hours are the most important for the cops.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, people are calling in. Everybody wants to find this beautiful young woman who, by the way, is very tall, 5`11". So she`s not
that petite. She`s slim but very tall.
Melissa, Kentucky, what do you have to say? Melissa, Kentucky.
CALLER: Hey, honey. I`m just curious about why they didn`t contact her parents. You know, she`s been gone for 36 hours. It takes them 36 hours
to contact anyone. I don`t understand that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Elizabeth Espinosa, KFI-AM, we know the first moments are crucial, and unfortunately, the longer there is a delay, the
less chance of somebody being recovered OK.
She texted at 1:20 a.m. Saturday that she was lost. Her friends knew that she was intoxicated. Why on earth is there a 36-hour delay between when
she says, "I`m lost" and when they have the alarm bell go off in their heads or the light bulb go off that, "Oh, my gosh, something bad happened"?
ELIZABETH ESPINOSA, KFI-AM: It`s terrible. And you know, my heart and prayers go out to the family. But you`re absolutely right, Jane.
And I agree with that caller, Melissa. I think it`s ridiculous. And I would fire those friends, because after 24 hours -- don`t even wait that
long. You knew your friend was drunk. She was intoxicated. She went home by herself. And the last text you get is, "I`m lost," and you`ve got to
wait 36 hours until you think, "Hmm. Maybe we should call police. Maybe there`s something wrong here"? That`s insane.
I really hope that the police department has thrown everything at this right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In their defense, this is a very quaint town. I was looking at photos, and we have some video, as well, of Charlottesville, in
general. Historic town but also very quaint town. And the area around University of Virginia super charming. This is in the area and, indeed,
the campus of the University of Virginia. And all of this is happening off campus, but in the vicinity.
Hannah and her family, originally from England. They had been living in the United States for several years, at least since Hannah was in high
school. Hannah disappeared right around the corner from her school. Again, the University of Virginia, UVA in Charlottesville, the classic
college town. Historic, quaint, with restaurants, bars. Lots of students walking around on foot. Hannah does not own a car, by the way. I think,
Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist, that this kind of atmosphere breeds a false sense of security, especially of young women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. You`ve got to say.
JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I do want to give the benefit of the doubt to the friends that perhaps they felt someone that found her, someone
had offered to walk her home, that she found safe haven somewhere, or that she got home or got someplace and was sleeping it off. So let`s just hope
that there were the best of intentions and the friends fell asleep at the wheel, if you will, with this particular situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vertella (ph), North Carolina, what do you have to say?
CALLER: You know, I think if she was picked up, I honestly think that she would have been found by now. Somebody would have dropped her off in a
safe place. You know, by her not having a vehicle, it is clear that somebody either picked her up or she`s somewhere passed out, but don`t
nobody want to think the worst about her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I certainly do not. And look at this beautiful young woman. And this is, it`s believed, what she was wearing when she went to
the party. So it`s sort of a halter top. I mean, she`s a really, really gorgeous young lady. And unfortunately, this is a very combination in the
sense, Evangeline Gomez, that she`s a beautiful young lady. She`s on foot, and she`s wearing this outfit, which is kind of a standout outfit. You can
see, it has a little glimmer. I mean, unfortunately, it`s very possible that somebody saw her disoriented, walking around in circles, and followed
her and looked for an opportunity to take advantage, but what do cops do now?
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s it, Jane. You`ve got it. And the problem is, when you have these quaint towns, you
have predators who go around there and look for drunk college girls. That`s why it`s really important for young women who are in college to
understand, if you`re going to be drinking, it`s your choice and you`re of age, that you`re around people and that you`re not inebriated, walking
alone in the streets.
My fear is that what happened is she was with her friends. They were probably drinking, too. That`s probably why you have the delay. They
probably didn`t realize it until Sunday afternoon or Monday morning once they sobered up and said, "Wow, you know, we haven`t heard from her.:
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sunday afternoon. Sometime Sunday; 36 hours at least.
GOMEZ: That`s -- and that`s a problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a long time.
GOMEZ: That is a long time, but that is one of the risks you assume when you engage in college drinking. That`s a problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. And here`s what Linda says on Facebook: "Even though she said no to having her male friend walk her home, why would they
allow her to go?" And that`s a really good question.
GOMEZ: That`s a very good question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to bring it back to Lisa Bloom. You`ve written books about young men. I don`t want to blame him. He`s not a suspect.
He`s not considered a suspect, because he has an alibi. He stayed at the party. He did not walk her home. But is there -- there is something to
learn from all of this. A lot of mistakes along the way.
BLOOM: Listen, the ethic with my friends when I was that age, and with my kids` friends, is you walk somebody home when they`re drunk or when they`re
high or when they`re a woman alone. It doesn`t matter if they say no; you have to physically hold onto them and say, "I`m walking you home." That`s
what you do. I mean, it`s that important.
And I don`t want to say this is a risk young women assume when drinking, by the way. I object to that comment. The risk of being, god forbid,
abducted, raped, murdered -- we don`t know what happened here. That`s not a risk you assume when you`re drinking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is it only the purview of a woman to get drunk?
GOMEZ: But you have to take steps to protect yourself as a woman, because if not, you put yourself out there to be a victim. And that`s sad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline, go ahead.
GOMEZ: I`m sorry. No, the problem is, if you`re drinking too much, you do assume some risk. And you have to be careful. Because you lose choice and
you lose control when you`re out drinking.
BLOOM: But that`s blaming the victim.
GOMEZ: And if you`re out walking the streets alone, if you`re out walking the streets alone, somebody views you as being vulnerable and views you as
being prey. And guess what? If you`re alone, there`s no way you`re going to protect yourself. That is just reality.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s take a quick break. I want to talk about this on the other side. We don`t want to blame her, because, as I
said, is the -- intoxication is only the purview of frat boys? What`s next? We`re going to outlaw drinking for women?
Let`s debate it on the other side. Don`t forget: check out my Facebook page. And please do me a favor: like it while you`re there, all right?
Share it, Facebook.com. All right?
And I`ve got to tell you, we`re just getting started on the disappearance of Hannah Graham. What happened to this beautiful young woman? This is
the last -- one of the last images of her before she vanished hours later. Who has her? We need to help her frantic family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s frightening. This isn`t something that happens often.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Students are worried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re really concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Charlottesville police release these images of Hannah Graham taken just hours before she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re checking her cell-phone records, computer, bank accounts, everything we can possibly do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say either Hannah`s phone died or was turned off. No one has heard from her since.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s frightening. This isn`t something that happens often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eighteen-year-old Hannah Graham missing from Charlottesville, Virginia. She was caught on surveillance cameras leaving
her apartment building around 9:30 Friday night. She allegedly went to a party with a male friend in the same area, left alone at 12:15 a.m.
Saturday morning.
Now we`re learns she was spotted outside McGrady`s Pub at about 12:45. That`s the same area.
Then, 35 minutes later, she sends a disturbing message saying she`s lost.
Now, a couple of things. One, on Facebook we have Christina saying, "I don`t believe it was Hannah who sent the text that `I am lost.`" And I
think that`s a very interesting point, Vinnie Parco, private investigator, because her phone goes off right after that.
PARCO: Yes, but you know what? They could check her call logs from the Internet. The phone company could give them a location where the last
message was sent from. And with that, they`d at least have a focus point to start.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They do. They, in fact, do have that. The pings match the last place where her phone, whoever sent it, but her phone sends a
message, "I`m lost."
Now here`s another thing that`s interesting. Evangeline Gomez, it`s only a 14-minute walk between that pub, where she was spotted, and where she texts
"I`m lost." But it took her 35 minutes when the surveillance pics are up at the pub to get to the spot. So I`m wondering, could somebody have
realized that she was sort of out of it, intoxicated, and in that 35 minutes created a plan to take advantage of her?
GOMEZ: Yes. And I think that`s an excellent point, Jane, that you bring on up, because if you`re intoxicated and as inebriated as police reports
have said that she was, you`re going to have some stumbling. By the way you speak. There`s going to be a loss of motor control, and somebody is
going to be able to pick this up.
And college campuses, again, I mean, this is a very typical scenario on college campuses. They are grounds for being targeted by predators who are
looking for women in these types of situations. Who are walking from the sorority house to the fraternity house.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: To Lisa Bloom`s point, we are not going to blame this woman, OK?
GOMEZ: No, she`s not being blamed at all. Not at all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What college kids do is get drunk. I`m the first to admit it: I got drunk in college. OK? I got drunk in college. Does that mean I
deserved to die? No.
GOMEZ: No. You`re absolutely right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, I want you to elaborate on what you were saying about that.
BLOOM: Well, what I objected to is the phrase, "assumed the risk." She assumed the risk because she got drunk and she was walking around alone.
No. "Assumed the risk" is a legal phrase, and it absolutely does not apply here. No one woman assumes the risk of being abducted, raped, murdered or
anything else.
GOMEZ: That`s right.
BLOOM: Now look, is it smart for young women to walk around alone? No. No, it`s not. To be drunk and walk around? No, it`s not. And I encourage
them not to. But if my car is stolen out in front of my own house, which is was, nobody says I assumed the risk because I left it out on the street
all night. Nobody blames me. Let`s not blame women for the bad things that happen to them.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That doesn`t mean I deserve to be mugged.
GOMEZ: If you behind a wheel and you`re drunk, you assume a risk that you`re going to hit somebody. I mean, that`s just common sense here. OK.
And that`s the thing I`m explaining. If I go out walking...
BLOOM: It`s not common sense.
GOMEZ: ... inebriated...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No.
GOMEZ: ... inebriated, somebody is going to look at me and say, "Hmm, Ms. Gomez tends to be out of control. She looks pretty vulnerable. Maybe I
should go up to her. Maybe I should..."
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Jeff Gardere. Jeff Gardere.
GARDERE: I think -- I think we really need to be sensitive about this, because there is a family who is right now scared to death. Hopefully,
they will not be grieving. And the last thing we want to do is to blame the victim, that she put herself at risk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
GOMEZ: That`s right.
GARDERE: The reality in this society is that here is a lovely tall woman wearing very nice clothing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s show her photo.
GARDERE: And she now became a possible victim for a predator because men - - let`s say the truth here. Men see a woman who they believe may be vulnerable and try to take advantage of her.
GOMEZ: That`s absolutely right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. We have to -- we have to settle down, because the most important point is to show this woman`s face. If anybody has any
information, has spotted this woman, knows anything that happened in that area of Charlottesville outside the University of Virginia, please
immediately call law enforcement. We want to stay on top of this. We want to find this young woman. And we certainly want to find whoever may have
taken her.
Next, the "Naked Truth." A firestorm erupts over the death of a young man gunned down police. His family says he was shot repeatedly in the back as
he ran away. And they say the only reason it happened is because he`s black.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t care what he looks like. You know what they said to me? "He`s brown and he has an afro."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight`s "Naked Truth," a young African-American man shot dead by two white cops in Utah. His family says he was shot six times in
the back and say he`s a victim of racial profiling. But cops say 22-year- old Darrien Hunt was on the attack, that he lunged at them with a three- foot sword. Cops say race had absolutely nothing to do with his deadly shooting.
Darrien`s mom says her son was carrying a decorative sword that he bought at a gift shop while he was heading to Panda Express restaurant to apply
for a job.
Cops say they responded to reports of a suspicious man, walking around local shops with a samurai sword. Cops insist when they make contact,
Darrien, quote, "brandished the sword and lunged toward the officers, causing them to shoot." But several witnesses claim he was running away
from the cops. And his family says an independent autopsy shows Darrien was shot six times, all from behind.
The dead young man`s father is black. His mother`s white. Listen to Darrien`s mom explain her conversation with cops moments after her son was
killed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They wouldn`t let me see him. They wouldn`t let me hold him. I said, "What does he look like?"
You know what they said to me? "He`s brown and he has an afro."
Really? But did he have on a red shirt?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Devastated mother, both officers on paid administrative leave while authorities investigate. The county attorney`s office says,
"There`s currently no indication that race played any role in the confrontation between Mr. Hunt and the police officer."
Straight out to my fired-up "Naked Truth" debate panel. I want to start with Mo Ivory, radio personality out of Atlanta. Cops say race has
absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever. The family says Darrien was shot precisely because he`s black. Who`s right?
MO IVORY, RADIO PERSONALITY: Jane, have you ever heard a police officer come out and say, "Race had everything to do with it?" I mean, come on.
That is the exact statement...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
IVORY: ... that a police officer is going to give or an attorney for the police department or the spokesperson. That is what they are going to say
until the facts begin to unwind. And that is what`s happening in this case, as we`ve seen in many cases before it.
Now they say from the independent autopsy that the family had that he was shot from the back, behind, all six shots from behind.
We do not have the state medical examiner`s autopsy. They haven`t released it yet. So why don`t we get the information that the state has? Let`s see
what that autopsy says, and then let`s decide if race was a factor.
But I don`t think that any police department is going to ever, in America, come out and say, "Oh, from the very beginning, race was a factor in our
shooting somebody who was turned from behind." So let`s be real realistic about what we are going to have to look at and to examine in the very
beginning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. But I have to point this out. This is -- and I don`t think you can see the whole thing. But there we go. That`s three
feet. That is a sword that`s three feet long. Now, even if it was 2 1/2 feet, that`s still -- that`s still a large sword. So does that factor into
it, Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney?
GOMEZ: Well, according to "AP" reports, the police are saying that this was a real samurai sword and that it was not wooden; it was not plastic
like the parents are arguing.
Also, in this situation, the Utah police can use excessive force -- it`s justifiable -- if he was resisting arrest, if they perceived him to be a
threat to themselves, the officers, or the public. And if somebody is carrying a samurai sword, the police officers can`t sit there for three
seconds or five minutes and figure out, "Oh, is this real? Is he not going to use..."
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. One at a time. Elizabeth Espinosa.
GOMEZ: Bottom line, that is the law.
ESPINOSA: Here`s the problem. The facts are going to be there. But what drives me crazy -- look, let`s for a second take out race out of this.
There`s always implicit bias, right, in someone`s mind. But let`s even take race out of this card.
If, in fact -- the evidence is he was shot in the back six times. I`m done.
I think this goes back to an issue of training. Why is this man a threat towards you if he`s running in that direction and you`re over there? It
doesn`t make sense.
GOMEZ: We don`t know that. You don`t know that, Elizabeth. You don`t know that.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, guys. Hold on. We`ve been trying to get this photo all day, but we weren`t able to. But here`s a photo. I`m going to
get in trouble for showing it on TV but it was part of my research. Here he is minutes before he is shot dead. And there`s an officer here and
there`s an officer there. Maybe the cop car is hiding it but you don`t see him brandishing a weapon.
BLOOM: That`s right -- Jane.
GOMEZ: He doesn`t have to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, is it possible because as his mother points out he has a big afro. That the people -- the 911 caller who said he looks
suspicious assumed the worst.
ESPINOSA: Yes, right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If it was a 70-year-old white woman walking around with a samurai sword would they have assumed, Lisa Bloom, legal analyst, avo.com
that well, she just went shopping.
BLOOM: So I write all about this all in my book "Suspicion Nation" of why we see these cases over and over and over again. He lunged at the police,
really? You mean to tell me we have an epidemic of young black men in America lunging at police, reaching for their guns at police? They know
that`s suicidal unless somebody is mentally ill which this young man was not. There`s no reason to believe that that`s true.
In fact I`ve seen videos where police say that happened and then it turns out it didn`t happen at all. There`s one in St. Louis where that was the
case. There`s no question that we all have implicit racial biases, that we think an African-American walking down the street with a sword is more
dangerous than a white person. There`s a mountain of data about it. We don`t like to think we have these biases, but in fact we do.
IVORY: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right -- listen. Hang on. We`re going to take a very short break. We`re going to take a short break. On the other side, we`re
going to talk about this young man`s past. He has some problems in his past. Is that a factor or is it completely irrelevant?
Stay right there and weigh in. We`ll be right back in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shot that did kill him hit him right in the back. Obviously, he was running away at the time that he was shot and killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His life was taken needlessly. I can`t walk away from a situation like this and just say, "Oh, well."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot believe that he is really gone and killed so unjustly in my eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he`s gone. Darrien Hunt, 22 years old, he was carrying a samurai sword. He was in a business area going to a restaurant.
Cops say he lunged at them with the sword and they fired, shooting him dead. His mother says he was carrying a decorative sword that was nothing
more than a glorified toy and this is a racial incident.
Now, it`s not related to this case. We must point out this young man had an arrest record. He was arrested back in January on allegations of
assault, domestic violence, child abuse and intoxication. He was ordered to get a test for substance abuse, mental health and domestic violence.
Now his side downplays that as just a fight with siblings. But as my panel -- back to Mo Ivory -- I mean is that irrelevant or does it show a pattern
of dangerous, erratic behavior?
IVORY: Well, I don`t think it`s relevant to what happened that day. And it`s also important to note that this was a plea in abeyance where he pled
guilty to the charge. He had to follow an agreement to do certain things. And this is in Utah law, a place where you can come forward and say what
you did. You can file the agreement that is set forth by the court and then you are not convicted. It falls off of your record and you actually
have no record after it. And this is done in many states. So it`s really insane --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline -- irrelevant.
(CROSSTALK)
GOMEZ: No, it is irrelevant. The record in itself is irrelevant but the fact that he had been intoxicated before -- he could have been intoxicated
this time. That could have been the situation.
IVORY: Have you ever been intoxicated before?
GOMEZ: And --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Jeff Gardere -- we don`t have the toxicology report yet.
GOMEZ: Please let me speak. Please let me speak, thank you. He could have been suffering from a mental break.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
Ok, I want to bring -- Lisa Bloom is looking very irritated -- I want to get her (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
GOMEZ: What is the police officer going to think?
GARDERE: I think what we`re seeing here, and one of the panelists made this very, very good point, that we do know that police brutality and
profiling and racism and inappropriate -- even though there are great cops -- inappropriate and racist cops somehow get through the psychological
screening process become cops. And then if they are challenged in any way, then we see that some of them do overreact with deadly consequences.
How this young man`s history may have played into this knowing what`s going on out there with cops, knowing that you`re one of the few African-
Americans in that particular area that there are many more white cops, you don`t walk around -- I`m not blaming the victim here -- but you be careful
about walking around with a samurai sword.
It doesn`t play into why they shot him six --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well wait a second. Hold on a second.
GARDERE: Hold on. It doesn`t play -- it doesn`t play --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This sounds like blaming a young woman for drinking.
GARDERE: No, it doesn`t play -- it doesn`t play into him being shot six times. He should not have been. Even if he had lunged with the sword --
what we do know now, the only report that`s come out was he was shot six times and shot in the back. So it does not in any way play into this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Lisa Bloom hasn`t been able to speak. Let Lisa speak.
BLOOM: Here`s the problem for young black men in America. Trayvon Martin was accused of walking too slowly. Mike Brown was accused of jaywalking,
walking in the street. This man was accused of walking around with a sword that he bought at a gift shop and then he was shot in the back. There is
no speed at which a young, black man can walk in America and be free from police abuse, harassment or even being shot by a vigilante.
Clearly race is at the issue of this case. We don`t want it to be but if you understand the research, you know that young black men are perceived to
be more hostile, more aggressive, more threatening for the same behavior that many of us engage in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me jump in here. Because I want to say -- hold on a second. Hold on.
Lots of people are comparing this case in Utah to the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. You know, at the hands of white
police officers. The difference is that Michael Brown was not armed -- ok. Remember everybody was saying he was putting his hands in the air?
Darrien Hunt was reportedly carrying this three-foot sword. Walking around local business. Now, Darrien`s mother has an explanation for the sword.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He actually stopped because some lady thought he looked awesome with the sword on his back and took his picture and he
smiled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, you know, I contest this idea that only certain kinds of people can buy a decorative sword at a restaurant. But I don`t know
what he was doing with that sword. I don`t know if he was brandishing it in a way that inspired somebody to call 911 saying somebody was behaving
suspiciously.
All right. This is firing up on Facebook, Twitter, et cetera. Let`s go to Jackie, Yacky Jackie Taurianen in the hash tag hub -- what are they saying?
JACKIE TAURIANEN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, I`ve been monitoring the story all day on our Facebook and Twitter pages and specifically looking at the
Darrien Hunt hash tag. And let me tell you people are fired up and really having this conversation online.
Let`s take a look at a few of what some people are saying to us.
Jenee says, "If a guy has a toy sword and the cops have a gun, why is it necessary to shoot not once, but six times?"
BLOOM: Thank you.
TAURIANEN: Olivia says, "If you think the slaying of Darrien Hunt had no racial component, you are willfully blind to reality."
We have NYG saying, "Running away from police does not justify shooting. If that`s the case, every episode of "Cops" would have ended with dead
suspects. #Darrien Hunt."
And last but not least Devi tells us, "We need cameras on cops and neutral third parties investigating cop and citizen shooting. No more cops
investigating cops.
IVORY: That`s correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting. Joshia, North Carolina -- Joshia, North Carolina, what do you have to say?
JOSHIA, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): I feel like the officers were absolutely wrong because if he lunged at there were other ways to subdue
him, such as tasing him. They were absolutely wrong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Elizabeth Espinosa, you haven`t had a chance to talk -- what do you have to say.
ESPINOSA: No words -- I just want to say look, these are state of mind shootings. And look, I get it. Police officers have a very difficult job.
But what scares me is that they control the narrative, right? And they`re state of mind shootings. So if I`m fearful of just anything and
everything, that I can just shoot? I want to circle back to that call to action, Jane, that you made for badge cams. This is why. Because how is
it that there`s a dispute in the first place that a sword was real and then the family says it`s a plastic sword. Who is handling that evidence?
(CROSSTALK)
IVORY: They don`t only control the narrative. They control the investigation. So not only the narrative -- ok, well, this is what
happened immediately after the incident happened. So let`s frame this in everybody`s mind that this guy was out of control and then we`re also going
to have the investigation, which we`re going to back up what we first said. We already see the police department retracting what they said the first
time with a second set of circumstances. So we know there is something not right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You probably can`t read my handwriting because I wrote it better the last time around. But #badgecamsnow -- I`m bringing
it back. I started it in Ferguson. It took off. It hit the top of Twitter. I`m bringing it back -- #badgecamsnow. Video should tell the
story. Not people with vested interests.
Next, Robin Thicke comes clean about his megahit "Blurred Lines". Should they have called it "Blurred Vision"? That`s a hit. He`s in hot water.
He`s being sued. What until you hear what he had to say under oath -- it`s a shocker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN THICKE, SINGER: I just want people to know that, you know, that I make this music because it comes from the heart not for some other special
accolade, but just to connect, you know. All my friendships, my family, my lover, it`s all about connection.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surprise admissions under oath from Robin Thicke when it comes to his hit song, "Blurred Lines".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was high and drunk every time I did an interview last year.
THICKE: I make this music because it comes from the heart
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. Bombshell is the definition -- singer Robin Thicke is being sued over his hit, "Blurred Lines". Robin says he was
drunk and high on Vicodin when he and Pharrell wrote the song or worked on it. He implies his drug and alcohol problems may have been one of the
reasons his wife, actress Paula Patton, left him earlier this year. The family of legend Marvin Gaye claims that Robin, Pharrell Williams and
rapper T.I. ripped off Gaye`s classic "Got to Give It Up".
Now I want you at home to listen to both songs and see if you notice a similarity and see if you think it`s a rip-off.
(MUSIC)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Definitely some similarities there -- just saying. Robin admits he`s a huge Marvin Gaye fan, saying he`s been called the white
Marvin Gaye throughout his career. He has a 20 percent co-writing credit on the contested song, "Blurred Lines", but now he`s saying, "I wasn`t
actually involved, I was drunk and high. I just wanted credit when the song became a big hit."
We reached out to Robin`s attorney and he told us, quote, "Robin`s moment of personal vulnerability is being exploited in the hopes of diverting
attention from the obvious weakness of their legal claim." He`s invited on our show any time.
Straight out to pop culture expert, Stuart Brazell. What is your reaction to his claim of being drunk and high a lot of the times, and actually
filling a water bottle up with vodka and slugging it, pretending it to be water?
STUART BRAZELL, POP CULTURE EXPERT: Jane, I am so shocked by this claim. He`s basically saying that the whole year was a big blur, talking about
"Blurred Lines", and he`s almost using this as an excuse to say, oh, I don`t really remember being in the studio and then throwing Pharrell under
the bus.
This has been the biggest song of Robin`s career. And when it was number one, he was, oh, yes, I`m right there with Pharrell, but now that things
are getting legally not so good for him, he`s so apt to throw everyone under the bus and just go I don`t remember. But the thing I`m most upset
about is that he`s admittedly still drinking after he`s basically blaming being drunk that he did all of that. So I`m very appalled.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, sorry. It`s Pelegrino, it`s not vodka. I`m actually a recovering alcoholic with 19 years of sobriety. So I don`t even joke --
I don`t even take a photograph of any kind of glass in my hand because people say she`s drinking again.
A lot of people are saying that, as you just said, Stuart Brazell, Robin Thicke is throwing his buddy, Pharrell, under the bus now that they`re
being sued over this song, "Blurred Lines".
Listen to Pharrell`s recent mega-hit, "Happy".
(MUSIC)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Robin told conflicting stories about his involvement or lack of in writing "Blurred Lines", the song they`re being
sued over. During the depo, he said, "Hey, I was high on Vicodin and alcohol when I showed up at the studio." And then he said, "Well, Pharrell
had the beat and he wrote almost every single part of the song."
But during an earlier interview he said, quote, "I told Pharrell, I want to do something kind of like Marvin Gaye`s "Tot to Give It Up", that kind of
feel because it`s one of my favorite songs of all time.
So Elizabeth Espinosa, KFIAM, which version of these three totally different stories do you believe?
ESPINOSA: Oh, my god, my eyes are rolling back. Mr. "Blurred Lines" is Mr. Blah. He totally ripped this off. He needs to man up. Pharrell, I
hope you never talk to Robin Thicke again, seriously. Come on -- this is ridiculous.
Here`s my question. Do you think perhaps he`s been hanging out with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. Because he said the same thing like, "Well,
Ray Rice didn`t tell me about the punch." And now this guy`s like no, no, I promise I was just jealous, I wanted credit. What a joke. Oh my God, no
wonder she left him, I would have too. Who is this guy?
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`m not saying for sure it`s a rip-off. There are influences. There are influences in many songs. And there`s so many
songs, you say, oh, that reminds me -- quite often I`ll say, that`s my favorite song on the radio, and then after a few bars, I`ll say, no, it`s
not that one, it`s a similar song.
I don`t know if we can say that it`s for sure ripped off, but I will say that some of these explanations are probably doing Robin Thicke more
harm than good.
On the other side -- we`re going to talk about where his whole career started going a little south -- can you say, twerking -- you know what I`m
talking about -- the infamous twerk. Was he high on Vicodin and alcohol when he had that encounter with Miley Cyrus` you-know-what? On the other
side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, a lot of people say, this is where Robin Thicke`s problem started -- the infamous twerk incident with Miley
Cyrus that was so controversial -- remember this is a married man. And you got to wonder Stuart Brazell, pop culture expert if Vicodin and alcohol
were clouding his judgment when he decided that this was a good idea.
BRAZELL: This Beetlejuice suit. That would just make me feel a little bit better about his fashion choices, if this is where this all started because
this was a disaster. Her bending over twerking, everything about this was total, total catastrophe for Robin and his image.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and you know, definitely, the Beetlejuice outfit, the twerking, the tongue hanging out on Miley Cyrus` part, and then, it was
after that that he and his wife seem have some problems. His wife, actress Paula Patton has left him, and he`s been on a very public mission to win
her back. He named his most recent album "Paula". You can watch this video for his song, "Get Her Back" from Interscope Records.
(MUSIC)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I hope it works out for them, Elizabeth Espinoza, but wow, "I can`t make love to you anymore" -- what?
ESPINOSA: Yes. And you know what -- here`s something, too, Jane. I will say this though. Like don`t -- this is why I said man up earlier. I got a
lot of Twitter reaction to that. Because, listen, there are people who really do struggle with alcohol. You know this with drugs -- don`t use
that as an excuse. That`s why I made up this lie. Guess what -- you dug your own whole. You said that lie -- you`re the guy --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it there but I don`t it`s a defense in the music department because some of the most famous songs were written
obviously when people were stoned out of their minds. Let`s be real.
ESPINOSA: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you.
Nancy`s next.
END
