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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Link in Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington Cases; Arias Faces Potential Jurors
Aired September 29, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a bunch of corrupt (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They can`t even frame anyone right. That`s how stupid them college (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
are.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news as the man accused of kidnapping co-ed Hannah Graham is locked into a Virginia jail. Cops make
an explosive announcement, saying they have found a forensic link between Hannah`s alleged kidnapper, Jesse Matthew, and the abduction and murder of
beautiful co-ed Morgan Harrington five years ago. Was Jesse Matthew living a double life, involved in the community by day and alleged serial rapist
and killer by night? And can this new shocker help cops find missing Hannah Graham?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A possible link between Graham and Harrington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Matthew`s arrest has provided them with what they`re called a forensic link to the abduction and death of Morgan
Harrington.
CHIEF TIMOTHY LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE: Jesse grew up here. He grew up in this community. He went to school here. He has family here. He
went to church here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: and we will not stop until that person is brought to justice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just last week, police arrested 32-year-old hospital nursing assistant Jesse Matthew and charged him with kidnapping 18-year-old
University of Virginia sophomore Hannah Graham with the intent to defile. That means a sexually related crime.
Hannah vanished over two weeks ago from Charlottesville after a night of partying, and cops believe Matthew was the last person to see Hannah that
night. And she`s still missing.
Now, police have just made a jaw-dropping announcement: a forensic connection between Matthew and the violent murder of 20-year-old Morgan
Harrington. Morgan vanished from a Metallica concert in the same town, Charlottesville, back in 2009. Her body was found just a few months later
in a remote field. Her killer was never caught, although police did link DNA in her case to the unsolved abduction and sexual assault of a woman in
the general area back in 2005. We`re talking about three links now, three women linked.
Morgan`s mom spoke out just moments ago about this new forensic link to her daughter`s possible killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIL HARRINGTON, MOTHER OF MORGAN HARRINGTON: I didn`t want him to be found in this way, but I can accept it, because I`ve fought vigorously, just like
Morgan did that night, I`ve fought vigorously for five years to prevent him from killing another person.
We know where Morgan is. Morgan is in a box over there. Hannah Graham is still missing, and her family needs to know where she is. We need to bring
Hannah home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If this is true, we`re talking about an alleged serial killer and serial rapist who has lived and worked in this community as a
respected member for at least ten years. Jesse worked as a taxi driver. Who knows how many women were in the back seat of his cab.
And just recently, Jesse was working at a hospital, and he volunteered -- right there -- as a football coach. That`s from the day Hannah vanished.
If true, can cops use this new shocker to pressure him into leading them to Hannah?
Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. And please join the conversation. Go to my Jane Velez-Mitchell Facebook page or you can talk
to me on Twitter, @JVM.
My expert Lion`s Den panel ready to debate. But first, straight out to reporter Marcello Rolando, on the ground in Charlottesville. Marcello,
what is the latest? What`s the reaction in Charlottesville to this explosive new development?
MARCELLO ROLANDO, REPORTER (via phone): Well, it`s a reaction of extremes, I`ve got to tell you. And everyone on the street is wondering, you know,
does this mean that Hannah is not coming home? And the media is going crazy, understandably.
But the police statement goes right up to the edge and not quite step over the line. It says there is forensic evidence, which is a pretty heavy-duty
word, as you pointed out. Forensic means something serious, something scientific, but they don`t -- they don`t quite commit to what that means.
However, I`ve been reporting for five years on Jill Harrington, and she`s not the type to deal in hyperbole. So if she -- if she says the state
police told her something, I believe her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you so much. Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author, "Undercover Angel," a forensic link. That does not
mean videotape. That does not mean somebody talking. That means something scientific. What are they talking about?
LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR: This can be a myriad of things. It could -- it -- possibly, they found skin cells underneath her nails, possible blood
from him that was transferred onto his body as she tried to fight for her life, a hair strand, anything like that.
One of the things if I didn`t -- if I may add, they talk about three months for them to find Morgan`s body, and I know they`re doing what they can to
go ahead and try to find Graham`s body. But they need to look at the clues they had with how far he dumped that body in order to find Heather [SIC].
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there are many similarities between Morgan Harrington`s abduction and murder and Hannah Graham`s unsolved abduction.
Both crimes occurred in the very same town, Charlottesville, Virginia. One happened in September. One in October. They`re five years apart.
Both women have a very similar look. They could be sisters. Both are pretty, young, blond. Both are university students. Both were partying
and drinking. Starting the night with friends, ending up alone.
Morgan -- and outdoors. Morgan was at a Metallica concert when she got separated from her friends, left the arena, repeatedly denied reentry. So
she`s by herself. She`s had something to drink. They see her walking alone. Neighbors and friends do, on a nearby road.
Hannah was a party with friends when she decided to leave alone. She ended up wandering around downtown Charlottesville alone, supposedly in search of
another party. She ran into Jesse Matthew, and witnesses saw her with Jesse Matthew at a restaurant.
So if Jesse Matthew is responsible for Morgan`s murder and Hannah`s disappearance, is there a clear-cut pattern there, Wendy Murphy, former
prosecutor?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, you don`t have to give me much more than the fact that he`s connected in a meaningful way to both cases. I
don`t necessarily think the victims involved have to have been involved in any particular kind of conduct to look at this guy as a potential pattern
offender.
Let`s remember: He was thrown out of Liberty University as a football player. Bumped, gone. Why? Alleged sexual assault of another woman. I
mean, come on. How many bites at the apple does one bum get? That`s what I see here: A pattern of not just bad behavior, but getting away with it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you this. First of all, he deserves his day in court. Let`s not rush and convict this person.
But I`ve got to ask you, Adam Thompson, given all of this, given the fact that Morgan Harrington`s parents, when her bones were found in a field -- I
think it was about ten miles away from Charlottesville -- and it was clear that her killer had been violent with her, had shattered her bones, this
young lady`s bones, and Morgan`s parents, who are my heroes, warned -- warned the world, they said, "We believe there`s a predator roaming the
streets of Charlottesville who could would be targeting University of Virginia co-eds." This was several years ago. Could the authorities have
done something -- well, something more to protect those co-eds so that Hannah Graham would not have been abducted?
ADAM THOMPSON, ATTORNEY: Well, you would think, in an act of good faith, the local law enforcement would do things like that. And as we see, it`s
certainly different from back then until now. There appears to be a lot more of a video link. So cameras, obviously, from back then until now have
been put in place that we were able to trace the paths in the newer case with Hannah. We didn`t have that back then.
So obviously, a lot has been done. Is it enough? Is it all that needs to be done? You know, in this day and age with so many abductions that things
had to go and go on of this nature, you want some kind of protection at a high level.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Cheryl Arutt, psychologist, what I`m saying is, this was foreshadowed. If indeed -- he deserves his day in court. But if,
indeed, this same person is responsible for Morgan Harrington`s abduction, assault, and vicious murder, breaking her bones.
And her parents warned the world that there`s a predator on the loose who could likely target University of Virginia co-eds, and then this happens
five years later. Was there something that could have been done? Could we have reminded the co-eds there might be a predator on the loose? Could we
have told Hannah, as a hand-out: "Here, there`s somebody who`s missing. Look out for this guy." Because remember, there ended up being a
description of the suspect, because even though they didn`t know who it was, they had a description, because he had been involved in a rape in
2005.
DR. CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: There is always more that can be done, and I think we need to be doing more. And there are organizations like PAVE
that are doing bystander intervention, focusing on college campuses with abductions and assault.
What we need to remember is that predators are going to look for the vulnerable person who is alone, who`s been either cut off from their group
of support or they cut them off themselves and get them alone. There`s a process that happens. And very often, a process of escalating, in terms of
violence of the crime.
The forensic evidence here, if that`s there, that`s enormously helpful. Forensic is a broad term that has to do with having to do with the legal
system. Science that`s connected to the legal system. So it could be forensic pathology like blood or samples of his DNA on her or her DNA on
his.
I do think that more needs to be done. I do think that college campuses need to do more in terms of educating about what you can do if you see
something that seems strange, what you can do...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s even more than that. They had a suspect description. And we`re going to show that suspect description.
ARUTT: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right now. This case is very similar to a lot of other cases, but I`m being told that Athena Jones, CNN correspondent who is on
the ground in Charlottesville, is joining us now.
Athena, I want to go out to you. There is the sketch of the suspect in the 2005 abduction and rape of a woman in a nearby city. They connected this
forensically to Morgan Harrington`s murder. So they had a description of Morgan Harrington`s suspect. It was an unsolved case.
Morgan Harrington`s parents had warned, publicly, that they felt a predator was on the loose targeting University of Virginia co-eds. Could more have
been done? Is there talk in the community whether more could have been done to alert, for example, Hannah Graham, that there might be somebody
there on the loose that you should watch out for?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jane, I don`t know about talk in the community about that specifically. Because my understanding is that
that link -- certainly, they were able to link Morgan Harrington to that 2005 case, but they hadn`t yet probably gotten the evidence to this
forensic evidence that we have heard the police talking about, to link Jesse Matthew to Morgan Harrington. So it`s possible that they weren`t
able to put together all those connections and put out a clear warning to the community, but I can tell you there`s a lot of concern in this
community.
Hannah Graham is still missing. Authorities don`t know where she is. We know there have been extensive searches. Searches continue.
Now, the police, the Virginia State Police, when they put out that statement today talking about this forensic link between Jesse Matthew and
Morgan Harrington, they didn`t specify what they forensic evidence was, and so we`re still waiting to hear more about that.
But we do know that they`re going to continue pursuing this link. They have a lot more work to be done, the Virginia State Police say. But they
also say that they don`t want the focus off finding Hannah Graham. And so that`s where a lot of the concern in this community is right now. Not
knowing where she is and, of course, a generalized concern about the safety of these young women attending college around here.
But when it comes to being able to warn the community specifically about that 2005 case, it`s not clear yet that they had all of those links that
they would be able to put that warning out. But I haven`t heard much about that from the community here linking all the way back to 2005 -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Athena Jones, thank you so much for your excellent reporting on the ground.
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, Barb on Twitter says, "Of course Jesse Matthew`s DNA matches. Have you seen the sketches from Morgan`s case,
compared to his pic?"
Now, we know that`s a leap. That`s a leap. But I want your reaction to my point. My point is that they had an unsolved abduction and rape of a
woman. That woman, by the way, survived.
Now here`s a question: Can they bring that woman in, put Jesse Matthew in a lineup and say, "Is this the person who committed your abduction and rape
back in 2005 for which -- for whom you gave that sketch?" And we could show the sketch again.
MURPHY: Well, one of the things they have to be careful about is just showing her this guy`s picture after we all see him and think he`s a
monster. They should just give her a line-up, put his face in there with some similar faces and let her pick.
Here`s the thing I don`t understand. This guy was working at UVA`s medical facility. Why would UVA hire a guy like this to work in their medical
facility, knowing from 2002 he was kicked out of Liberty University for sexual assault? `05, he`s suspected in a nearby sexual assault. 2010,
he`s suspected in this murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was not suspected in `05. It was this suspect`s description. It was only today that they connected the dots.
MURPHY: Jane -- Jane. Common sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was never charged in the 2002 case, where he was reportedly, allegedly...
MURPHY: He was named.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... expelled. But he wasn`t criminally charged.
MURPHY: He was named.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to take a short break. This is a complex case, but it`s an explosive development. On the other side of the break,
we`re going to talk to a UVA professor who is the host of "Inside Charlottesville," who has got some extraordinary information on the evening
Hannah Graham went missing. And folks who were in the bar who said they were interacting with Jesse Matthew and have some shocking claims. Stay
right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The still unsolved abduction and murder of 20-year-old Virginia Tech student Morgan Harrington. She disappeared after attending a
rock concert on the UVA campus in October 2009. Months later, her body was found on a Virginia farm along Route 29.
A possible link between Graham and Harrington? The T-shirt Harrington was wearing the night she disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesse Matthew is in custody in Galveston, Texas.
JESSE MATTHEW, SUSPECT: Sir, I have a question for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr. is now in custody, charged with abducting missing UVA student Hannah Graham.
JOHN GRAHAM, FATHER OF HANNAH: She`s our only daughter. All we want to do now is to bring Hannah home safely. Please, please help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But she is still missing. Nobody knows where she is, except, perhaps, suspect Jesse Matthew, but his father says, no. There is
no way his son would hurt Hannah Graham. Listen to the dad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To kill or hurt somebody, that`s not my son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jesse Matthew, police say, could be connected to another incident nearly a decade ago. DNA linked Morgan Harrington`s case, her
murder, to a 2005 sexual assault in Fairfax City, which is about two hours north of Charlottesville.
In that case, a man who matched Jesse`s description, according to the sketches that we`ve seen, grabbed a woman who was walking by herself along
the side of the road after leaving a grocery store, dragged her to a park area and sexually assaulted her. She survived. And tonight we`re asking,
could that woman help authorities crack these other cases?
But I want to go to Coy Barefoot, who is the host of "Inside Charlottesville." He`s an investigative journalist. He`s also a
University of Virginia professor.
You`ve done some digging, Coy, about the night that Jesse Matthew was allegedly seen with Hannah, who is in the red shirt right there and the
light blue and dark blue top right there. They were both together in a restaurant moments before Hannah vanished into thin air, never to be seen
again. What have you learned about this suspect`s behavior that night?
COY BAREFOOT, UVA PROFESSOR/INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST (via phone): I was fortunate to talk to a number of eyewitnesses who were there that night.
They were on the downtown mall. They were in the restaurant. They were partying with Mr. Matthew. And I spoke specifically with a young woman who
met him that night for the first time.
She told me that the moment that he met her, that he picked her up and threw her over his shoulder, laughing. She demanded to be put down. He
was laughing. She was embarrassed, of course. She was humiliated.
And then she said, "He followed me around the bar, me and my friends, around the bar all night long, putting his arm around us, touching our
hair, touching our back, our faces. We kept telling him, `Leave us alone.`"
At one point, he followed them to another restaurant, another bar, and there he continued to touch them. He put his hands on their legs above and
below the knee, and she told me that she finally had to look at him and say, "Don`t `F`ing` touch me again." That was about an hour before he ran
into Hannah Graham on the downtown mall.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That`s -- that`s extraordinary information. If I could ask you to stand by, Coy. I want to bring in Lisa Lockwood,
investigator. What does that tell you, Lisa?
LOCKWOOD: Yes. Last week, I had alluded to the fact that women would be possibly coming forward talking about his behavior. Had he been in a
relationship with other girls? Was he sexually aggressive. So I have a feeling that a lot of women have surfaced and gone to the police, sharing
similar stories about this modus of operation that he has had over the years, since 2005, possibly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Judy on Facebook.
TROY SLATEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Everything that was described...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
SLATEN: Everything that was described, that`s totally innocuous. People get drunk...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What?
SLATEN: ... and they go to bars, especially in college towns, and they, you know, tussle with each other. They touch each other. If these girls
really had a problem...
LOCKWOOD: Are you kidding me? Look at the size of this man. Are you -- this is totally innocuous behavior?
SLATEN: ... inside of "20/20."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on, Troy.
ARUTT: Forcing yourself on women is not innocuous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Troy, finish your sentence and then we`ll let everybody else respond. One at a time. Finish your sentence, Troy, and then we`ll
let others.
SLATEN: If these girls had a problem with this guy, they could have gone to the bouncer. They could have easily had him kicked out. It wasn`t bad
enough for them to ask anyone else for any kind of help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to give some of the women here -- go ahead, Cheryl.
ARUTT: Excuse me. They left -- they left the place. They specifically said, "Put me down. Don`t touch me. Leave me alone." They went to
another place. He followed them.
SLATEN: They left because that`s what kids do. They go bar hopping.
ARUTT: Wait -- wait a minute.
SLATEN: They go from one bar to the other.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A, he`s not a kid. He`s a 32-year-old man who was working as a hospital nursing assistant.
ARUTT: Football player sized.
SLATEN: Thirty-three, but he`s not allowed to drink?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thirty-two. He said that`s what kids do. Go ahead.
ARUTT: It`s very intimidating. You`re absolutely right, Jane. These are not two kids. To portray this as some sort of egalitarian jousting and not
lot look at the power differential in terms of size, in terms of women`s fear of rape and kidnapping and assault, in terms of the continual denying
to respect women`s boundaries and the escalation in this way, this is deeply troubling, and I don`t want it normalized.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Wendy Murphy...
SLATEN: If any of these girls had a problem, they could have gotten him kicked out of that bar, lickety-split.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not -- that`s not the point. The point is was his behavior some sort of foreshadowing of what was to come? If you look at
the sum total of this -- and remember, we don`t want to convict him. He deserves his day in court. This is all based on...
THOMPSON: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... a "forensic link" that police are saying they have found between the Morgan Harrington case and a rape ten years earlier and
the woman that you`re seeing there, the young woman the dark hair, Hannah Graham.
ARUTT: If we`re talking just about the restaurant behavior. If you take murder and rape out of it, my position is that this man, Mr. Matthew`s
behavior in those bars is unacceptable.
SLATEN: Fooling around in a bar does not a rape make.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to take a short break. We`re going to be back with more. Stay right there. We`ve got phone calls and
Facebook and Twitter comments. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill or hurt somebody, that`s not my son. The only thing I could see, him maybe trying to give the girl a ride home or help
her out.
If I did, I would go to him and bring him in myself. We`ll be right behind him, no matter what.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN HARRINGTON, FATHER OF MORGAN HARRINGTON: We now need to find the person who did this and we will not stop until that person is brought to
justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s Morgan Harrington`s father. There is now breaking news. A forensic link between Morgan`s murder and the disappearance of
Hannah Graham and the suspect is Jesse Matthew. Where is Hannah Graham? Police say they`re focusing on remote fields and farmlands in the search
for Hannah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF TIMOTHY LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE POLICE: They`re moving south of the Charlottesville into Albemarle County to search the rural parts of
farmlands and large parcels once they get the property owners` permission to do so. They`re going to be pretty aggressive following up those areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why are they searching remote areas? Well, Morgan was found in a remote field in a small farm about 10 miles from the concert
venue where she disappeared in Charlottesville.
Could cops be using Morgan`s case as a guideline to try to find Hannah Graham? And remember this is a huge job. There is a national park,
Shenandoah National Park, less than half an hour away which has hundreds of miles of land.
So I want to go to Lisa Lockwood, investigator, can they go up to this suspect, hypothetically, and they can say, "Look, we now have what we
need," if they do, "to charge you with Morgan`s murder. We can take death off the table if you lead us to Hannah." And that`s assuming that he`s
responsible for these.
LOCKWOOD: Yes, Jane. Certainly deals like that have been made in the past. And if one of these parents are ok with that -- the parents want to
know that death will not be on the table anymore but they just want to have the peace in order to find their daughter then that definitely is an
option.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: I would never --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
MURPHY: First of all, you don`t make deals with monsters. I`m sorry for the family --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me -- alleged monsters.
MURPHY: -- but why do you want to give a guy like this --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You want to find Hannah.
MURPHY: -- you don`t --
SLATEN: Deals are made with suspects all the time.
MURPHY: I understand but this happened in the Danielle -- this happened in the Danielle Van Dam case --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what we as prosecutors do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. One at a time. One at a time.
MURPHY: Listen, it`s unethical. It`s unethical to trade on the sadness of a family that`s grieving. I understand the argument, but you don`t sell
out the safety of the public, the public interest in general, to find a body. You say to this guy, you`ll die five times over and we will never,
ever let you free -- ever unless you tell us where she is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve given your opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Troy`s response.
SLATEN: Look, parents -- parents absolutely have a say. Prosecutors will listen to the parents, but they`re not the end all be all. The prosecutors
need to solve this case, and they need to, if they can, try and find Hannah alive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s gut-wrenching. Hannah`s parents have no idea where their precious daughter is right now. I say do what you have to, to find
her.
Meantime, Jodi Arias, she`s back in a big way. It`s the start today of her retrial. Will she get life or death by lethal injection for the brutal,
vicious murder of her on and off again boyfriend, Travis Alexander?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.
Count 1: First degree murder, premeditated murder.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Once she begins stabbing him, it`s not a situation where she stopped. She killed him three times over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, FOUND GUILTY OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S MURDER: Oh, holy night. The stars are brightly shining.
I wouldn`t use obsession. It was a two-way street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caused the death of Travis V. Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First degree murder -- guilty.
ARIAS: I guess. I don`t know.
MARTINEZ: No, no, no. There`s no guessing here now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s all coming back and it`s bigger than ever. Tonight is Jodi Arias`s life flashing before her eyes? It`s day one of the
convicted killer`s retrial and the case has already hit a major roadblock. One potential juror after another saying, "No, we`ve made up our minds. We
cannot be impartial."
Jodi was convicted of murdering her lover Travis Alexander in horrific fashion. 30 stab wounds, a bullet to his head, his throat sliced ear to
ear all the way down to the spine. The graphic details of the murder and the couple`s x-rated sex life played out on TV before captivated millions.
The judge now finding out how tough it will be to seek an impartial jury who`ll decide whether Jodi deserves a death sentence. Many potential
jurors said they could not follow instructions to be unbiased. One of them told the judge, "I couldn`t erase the information from my mind." Maybe he
means the blood. Everybody`s got an opinion about this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My friend is stabbed in his bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.
Count one, first-degree murder, premeditated murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has.
ARIAS: I wouldn`t use obsession. It was a two-way street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caused the death of Travis V. Alexander.
ARIAS: I need to be honest. And the evidence is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go straight out to Dave Hall, a good friend of the victim, Travis Alexander. This is already a frustrating experience.
What are your frustrations as a man who loved this guy who was brutally and viciously murdered by this woman?
DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, it is frustrating to be going back through this whole scenario again. You know, it conjures up
frustrations at the previous jury because they deliberated for only 13 hours before throwing in the towel and saying, you know, we just can`t make
this work. And now here we are 17 months later, still many more months to go, millions and millions of dollars spent during this time to make one
decision.
I think they should have put in a little bit more time and finished the job the first time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, all it takes is one person. In the last case, when she was convicted and then they deliberated
whether she`d live or die, it was eight to have her killed and four against.
But in this go round, all they need is one. And we know statistically it is harder to put a woman to death. Since 1976, only 14 women have been
executed in America versus 1,300 men.
MURPHY: Yes, I mean I don`t particularly like the death penalty, but I don`t like sexism either even when it works to the advantage of women who
don`t deserve it. It`s just not right.
Look, I don`t think any juror is going to be able to say, I don`t have strong feelings about the case. The question they should be asked is not
"do you have feelings". It`s did you have an erection during the first trial? That`s really the problem here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh please. Come on.
MURPHY: I`m serious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean by that?
MURPHY: I`m serious because the erotic --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean by that?
MURPHY: Look, the erotic nature of the trial, the what I call the frenzy in the boxers. The fact she was playing to the pornography of the jury
that a lot of the guys couldn`t quite vote to kill her because they couldn`t think of killing their favorite porn star. That`s a problem in
this case.
THOMPSON: Wendy that`s that`s ridiculous. That`s ridiculous.
MURPHY: The good news is --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Hold on -- give Adam Thompson a chance to respond.
MURPHY: Just let me finish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Finish Wendy and then we`ll give Adam a chance to respond. Go ahead.
MURPHY: My point is the two advantages this time around are there won`t be television so she won`t be hamming it up because she`ll get no juice out of
that -- number one. And number two because the question will be did you kill with extreme atrocity or cruelty, it really doesn`t matter that she
was laying in bed and oral sex was going on. That`s not going to be relevant this time around. Hallelujah.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`ve made your point.
Adam Thompson, attorney, respond to this idea that somehow sex and the graphic nature of this trial made it impossible for male jurors to sentence
her to death.
THOMPSON: I think that`s nonsensical. Listen, you know, the bottom line is this. This is such a sensational case and the facts are so horrific and
you have a personality like her. I said it around the first time of the trial. The fact that she was on the witness stand for so long, as good as
a job the prosecutor did cross-examining her -- and I think we all agree on that -- the longer people see someone, the overall horror of things start
to take less and less effect and you get a little numb to it. I think that`s what the problem is.
Now when we see the new jurors being brought in, there`s not a person out there that hasn`t been exposed to the media -- I`ll say your fine book for
that example Jane -- that paints such a clear picture of this case and the facts and the nature of it that everyone has an opinion and it`s a strong
opinion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --
THOMPSON: So trying to find that small niche of a juror who will say, I know what happened but I`m able to form an impartial opinion and base it on
fact is going to be hard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to explore Wendy`s theory for a second. How much will this new jury hear about the naked photos? Will they hear the phone
sex tape again? Will they hear the x-rated text messages again? If it`s anything like the first trial, there`s going to be a lot -- I mean a lot of
blush-worthy moments.
And here`s one for the record books.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: "If you`re a lucky boy and you promise to give me a good well- deserved spanking," and then there`s a period there, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Then you also say, "Maybe you could give my ass a too much needed pounding too -- kidding." Correct?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: You`re kidding about the second portion, but not the first portion, correct?
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean Dr. Cheryl Arutt, there was a lot of -- I mean I`ve said it repeatedly. This case makes "50 Shades of Grey" seem like an
episode of "The Waltons". I mean does that however impact the ability of jurors, male or female, to say you deserve to die?
ARUTT: I think that the coverage -- and we covered this coverage daily with this trial -- having her on the stand like that, even though it was
lurid and it was really gripping, I think people felt that they got to know her a little bit, even if they loved to hate her. I think that it is hard
to kill somebody that you feel like you have gotten to know.
When people are talking about, can I be impartial it`s that much harder when you`re coming in for only the penalty phase of this case. These are
people who are not going in with the idea that maybe I`ll have to (inaudible) this life or death decision, maybe not. It`s for sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: I disagree. I think it`s going to be easier for them to vote for death because number one, we heard a lot of stuff about her lies and
manipulation, and the jurors are going to know that she isn`t all what she was cracked up to be. That she put on an act during the first trial. Then
the truth came out that she was a manipulative piece of you-know-what. She can soon --
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: You`re wrong -- Wendy. You`re wrong. It`s going to be a hung jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Hold on. Let`s get predictions. Let`s get predictions starting with Jordan Rose. You`re an attorney in Phoenix. You
know a lot of the key players that are litigating this case. What`s your prediction?
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Prediction is that find an impartial jury, the jury that`s not out seeking fame, and that`s going to be hard to do because
people see this tremendous upside with book deals and TV interviews afterwards. And it`s going to hard for these lawyers to flesh it out and
make sure we don`t get that guy or girl in the jury.
And I predict that the defense is going to want as many men as humanly possible on that jury because they only need one to sort of fall in love
with her or think she might date him and save her from death. And if that`s what happens, I think she has life in prison. And I don`t like
that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go back to Dave Hall, friend of Travis Alexander. What do you and your buddies and by extension the family of Travis, think
about this possibility of all they need is one? All she has to do is connect with one juror?
HALL: You know, I have to agree with Wendy. I think she nailed it on the head here because specifically I`m going to call out if the jury foreman of
the previous trial. Because here you have someone who was elected by the other members of that jury to be their leader so he was obviously
influential to be the one voted to lead them. He was the one that voted against the death penalty and hung it.
But then in an interview afterwards, he said the state did not prove their case of premeditation, as if staging that break-in at her grandparents
house, stealing their gun which happened to be the same caliber that he was shot with, taking her battery off her phone, getting three gas cans and
driving all the way to Arizona is not premeditated enough, weighed against her version of what happened that she dropped his camera and he attacked
her. There`s no proof of any balance in that relationship ever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I agree with you. Premeditation and she`s a pathological liar. But again, my question -- and on the other side of the
break -- will this woman take the stand again and hijack the trial for 18 days the way she did the last time? What do you think?
And a great primer for the death penalty phase in the Jodi Arias case is my "New York Times" best-seller "Exposed: the Secret Life of Jodi Arias".
It`s the definitive book on this case. And it`s just out in paperback right now with details that never came out at trial about Jodi`s past.
Up next, will Jodi`s ongoing feud with her attorneys torpedo her defense?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: I`m asking you to tell me whether or not this fog that you`ve been telling us about increases your ability to remember, even though
you`re going into this fog.
ARIAS: I would not say that it increases, but I don`t know. I don`t remember.
MARTINEZ: You`re the only one that knows about this memory stuff, right, because according to you it happened to you, right?
ARIAS: I don`t think I`m the only one that knows.
MARTINEZ: I`m not asking if you`re the only one that knows. I`m asking you whether or not you`re the one that has the best knowledge about what
happens to you when this fog rolls in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: And I woke up and he was on top of me. He had already penetrated and started having sex. I kind of felt like, like a prostitute, sort of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The penalty phase of the trial has started. The big question will she live or die? And to that end, another question -- will
Jodi take the stand again? We`re going to debate it starting with Jordan Rose, attorney out in Phoenix -- will she take the stand?
ROSE: Jane, absolutely. She`ll take the stand despite pleas from her lawyer not to. She is such a narcissist. I mean this is the woman who --
a monster who wanted to represent herself. There`s no way you could keep her off the stand. She thinks she has this incredible Jedi mind trick on
men and jurors and the whole nation. And so she`s going to use that. Absolutely she`s taking the stand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. Adam Thompson, there are some experts who say first of all the jury foreperson in the trial that convicted her
told the defense she was a horrible witness. They said do yourself a favor, tell her not to take the witness stand. Also she opens herself up
to cross-examination. So a lot of experts think she won`t take it. What do you think, Adam?
THOMPSON: She`s 100 percent going to testify for a bunch of reasons. First of all, even though her lawyers advise her not to, even though the
jury foreperson said it probably hurt her more than helped. If she`s really pathological and likes the stage, she`s going to do it for that
reason. And to spite the lawyers she wanted to fire. In her mind, she thinks look I was up there for 19 days or more and with all that damage
done --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she got convicted.
THOMPSON: -- yes but ultimately in this thing it didn`t work. With all the news and everything that surrounded she still wasn`t found guilty in
the death penalty phase of this. So in her mind she`s going to do what she did before and hope it will be successful and get the same result.
MURPHY: No way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me clarify, she`s guilty. And they`ll decide whether she lives or dies -- Wendy.
MURPHY: No. There`s no way. I don`t think she`ll take the stand unless she has already been given permission to talk about oral sex and all that
nonsense. That`s the only thing that helped her at the trial. And if she`s forbidden to do that this time, she gets nothing out of taking the
stand because then she looks even more like an ice cold sociopath where all she gets to talk about is "I sliced his neck and then stabbed him again 35
times."
And make the prosecution this time around will be laser sharp, not only with the vicious details of what she did and she won`t be able to escape
but with each and every lie she told the first time around. It would be brutal. She will go to the death penalty fast.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to go back to Dave Hall friend of Travis Alexander - -
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: Can I jump in. You know why you`re wrong -- Wendy. You know why you`re wrong. Because this judge doesn`t want an appeal issue -- he
doesn`t want an appeal issue to come up so on all those issues she`s going to give Jodi Arias and her side the opportunity to present these things.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to give Dave Hall the last word. Will she try to attack Travis`s character again? 30 seconds.
HALL: I absolutely believe she will. I guarantee you. They didn`t want her on the stand the first time around. But she didn`t care. She took the
stand.
And for William (inaudible) he was the jury foreperson who comes on and says she made a bad witness and it would be a mistake he`s now consulting
Wilma Nurmi (ph) trying to advise them how she can do better the second time around. He said she wasn`t a good witness, well it worked good enough
for him to vote not to give her death. So you got to look at the proof in the pudding. It worked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Great to see you -- Dave Hall.
Nancy is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
