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Jane Velez-Mitchell
`7th Heaven` Dad Confesses to Child Molestation; Woman Disappears Barefoot in the Rain; Routine Traffic Stop Turns Violent
Aired October 07, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Shock waves through Hollywood and around the country. Indeed, the world. As one of the most
recognizable faces on television is accused of being a pedophile.
You know him as the star of the long-running hit TV show "7th Heaven." Now the estranged wife of TV and movie star Stephen Collins makes this jaw-
dropping allegations against him in divorce documents.
In a declaration, Faye Grant claimed that in January of 2012, she learned for the first time that her husband had allegedly engaged in a long-term
pattern of sexually molesting children. Grant alleges that her husband admitted that over a decade ago, he sexually molested three girls in the
range of an age of 11 to 13. The alleged victims are now adults.
The actor`s representatives have not returned our calls seeking comment. They are invited on anytime. We want to hear his side of the story.
This story blew on earlier today when TMZ released an audio tape that is purportedly from a therapy session with the estranged couple. TMZ says
Collins made incriminating admissions on the tape. HLN cannot confirm the authenticity of the tape, whether it`s actually Collins` voice, or whether
it`s been edited.
We can tell you, though, that Stephen Collins and Faye Grant have been in a very nasty divorce.
He starred in lots of movies, but he`s probably best known for his role as the father and pastor in the squeaky-clean family drama "7th Heaven." Here
is a clip from Paramount.
All right. Straight out to TMZ news manager, Mike Walters. TMZ broke this story. What are you learning tonight?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ NEWS MANAGER: The audio tape, which is shocking, obviously, I can tell you that one of the victims came forward in 2012 in
New York and actually was interviewed by two detectives from the NYPD`s SVU unit. And they were told the exact same things that he says in what I like
to call the confession on these tapes.
So besides the tape, NYPD is conducting an active, formal investigation into these exact specific allegations with a 10-year-old girl. Now I can
tell you that it was in the 70s. It was also a relative of his first wife.
And this lady told the NYPD this is what happened. She went blow by blow through the abuse, and now they`re investigating. I am told they were here
in Los Angeles last week, interviewing people that were possibly involved in the tape or sitting in the room during the recording of that tape, and
the NYPD is taking it seriously.
And Jane, for your legal viewers, they believe they`re within the statute of limitations, because it was reported in 2012, and it starts to run in
the state of New York when reported. So they believe they can prosecute this case, and Stephen Collins is the target of this investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, again, TMZ breaking the story. It is a shocker. We have to stress that HLN and CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of the
tape. We cannot confirm whether it`s actually Stephen Collins` voice or whether it`s been edited. Stephen Collins` representatives have not yet
returned our calls, but I want to stress to Collins and/or his reps are invited on our show any time. Again, Mike Walters, always breaking news on
TMZ, great to talk to you.
Now, we`ve got more breaking news that`s just in. It`s coming in as we speak. We have just learned of major fallout from these allegations.
Reruns of "7th Heaven" have been pulled off the air. Actor Stephen Collins has just been fired from the film "Ted 2." Collins has just left the
Screen Actors Guild, resigning from the board`s organization. Here is another clip of Stephen Collins from his most famous role as the pastor dad
in "7th Heaven."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLLINS, ACTOR: Sooner or later, Maryann Wilson will show up, and when they do, I`ll be here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With me.
COLLINS: I`m sorry. I had to get out of there. I mean, it`s so surreal. I feel like my world, our world, has stopped and the rest of the world is
speeding along at an ever increasing rate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Again, I would just love to hear what he has to say about all this, but next best, we`ve got Kyle Searles. This is an
exclusive interview with an actor who worked with Stephen Collins on the show that you`ve been watching, "7th Heaven."
First of all, Kyle, thank you so much for joining us. What is your reaction to these stunning allegations against this man, one of the most
recognizable faces on television?
KYLE SEARLES, ACTOR (via phone): Thank you, first of all, for taking my call, Jane. I appreciate that. And you know, just to preface what I`m
about to say, you know, I can`t really comment on all these new allegations that came out on Mr. Collins this morning when I woke up. But what I can
comment on is what type of person he was in my eyes when I had the opportunity to work with him for a little over three seasons on "7th
Heaven."
And to be perfectly honest with you, and anybody that knows me and my experience as an actor in Los Angeles at that time, you know, the No. 1
person I would say that I enjoyed working with the most out of everybody that I worked with was Stephen Collins. He was a tremendous person in my
eyes. I really, really admired him. I looked up to him. He was very engaging, very genuine, very personable.
Anybody -- didn`t matter if you were an extra on the set or a -- you know, a lighting guy or an actor, you know, you could walk right up to him and
strike up a conversation, and it was genuine on his end. And you could tell that; you could feel that. He was not only the father on "7th
Heaven," but he was also the father on the set for all of us.
And never once did I ever get any sort of weird inclination that maybe he was not who he says that he was. So it was definitely very disturbing news
to wake up to this morning. I didn`t believe it at first. And I still feel like I`m in state of shock. It`s a lot to really -- it`s just a lot
to take all in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you think he resigned from the Screen Actors Guild board, national board?
SEARLES: I -- I`m not quite sure, to be honest with you. You know, I haven`t had any contact with Mr. Collins since we wrapped "7th Heaven" a
number of years ago, so I`m not quite sure. I think that it might just be something where, you know, it`s best for him to take a step back amid all
of these allegations and really try to focus on the task at hand, unfortunately. Other than that, I really couldn`t tell you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank you so much for coming on.
SEARLES: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the bottom line is, you`re saying you never got a creepy vibe off him. You never saw him getting, for lack of a better word,
handsy when he was working with child actors on the show. You never -- nothing ever gave you the creeps. You can see him right here. He`s with
children. I mean, nothing ever gave you the sense that there was something about this man where he was living, in the words of his ex, a secret double
life?
SEARLES: No. To be perfectly honest, no, I didn`t. And, you know, I saw him interact with a number of the younger child actors on the show. And
never once did I get any sort of vibe whatsoever.
And, you know, I`d like to think that most people that deal with this type of issue that has come out with Mr. Collins, is that, you know, they are
very private people, whereas Mr. Collins, Stephen Collins, he was very personable. He was very social, very active. He wasn`t overly private.
So it didn`t ever seem like he had anything to hide.
So I`m still in shock. And this is very, very sad news. And I really -- as a parent now, I have got even more mixed emotions and -- that I`m kind
of dealing with myself. And but I do -- I would like to encourage all parents to please talk to your kids. Don`t be afraid to ask them
questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
COLLINS: If you`re uncomfortable to talk to them about situations like this, then they`re going to be uncomfortable to approach you the same way.
And -- yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank you for taking the time. That`s excellent advice to children and parents. Again, you worked with Stephen Collins on
his most famous show, "7th Heaven."
Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox." The accusations, and I want to stress I`m holding the lawsuit in my hand. It`s
one shocker after the next. And I`ll tell you a little bit about the timeline. Then I want to get reaction to what Kyle said. He worked with
him, said never got creeped out at all.
In her declaration, the actor`s estranged wife said during the couple`s 27- year marriage, she says she was clueless. She never had any clue that her husband was doing anything wrong.
Now, the divorce filing, she says in this she learned of her husband`s, quote, "husband`s secret life" in 2012. She refers to therapy session
during which she claims that he admitted molestation, and it left her sickened. The next month they separated. Later that year, the wife claims
she was contacted by the husband of one of the alleged victims, who is now an adult.
And she claims that the man threatened a lawsuit and berated her for not turning Collins in.
So I just want to get your stance of what`s going on here. We know divorces can get very ugly. We know these are just accusations. No
criminal charges have been filed against him. And we know this man who worked closely with him for a long time for several seasons never got an
inkling of anything untoward. Your reaction as a psychologist.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I have two things to say, Jane. One is that sometimes people have a public and private personality that can be
completely different.
But secondly, I`m always suspect when this stuff happens to come out during a divorce trial. And, you know, we don`t really know the quality of the
video. We don`t know if it`s been edited. We don`t know if it`s been taken out of context. We don`t know what he was really saying. I want to
reserve judgment here, really, until we get far more information. Now, this is not to say that this isn`t a terrible crime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Wait, you`re -- Wendy Murphy, you`re holding your head in your hands, former prosecutor.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I mean, come on. You want to reserve judgment until after how many confessions about how many kids? I can
understand if it was an allegation from one person sometime, one place. He confessed. Than he resigned from the Screen Actors Guild. And what he
describes putting children`s hands on his penis, what are you trying to reserve judgment for?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let Wendy respond. Wendy Walsh. Wendy Walsh, you respond.
WALSH: What the ex-wife really had involved in this, she waits until the 11th hour and there`s money involved in this, alimony lost with this
divorce...
MURPHY: She didn`t say it. The kids did. He confessed. The wife isn`t the accuser. He`s a confessor. There`s a difference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say this. They are in a very -- they have been -- and I don`t know if it`s finalized. These documents date back to 2012.
But they had been in a very nasty divorce. And there`s a lot of money issues, which we`re going to get to right on the other side of the break.
Millions and millions and millions of dollars are involved here, as well.
So we`re going to take a pause. On the other side, we`re going to hear from a reporter who has been all over this case from the start. She`s got
new details about the ages of these purported victims and how far this goes back.
And later, an Indiana family horrified after being stopped by the cops. You will not believe what happens next. It is beyond shocking. It`s
terrifying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... asking me to open my door so I can get out. I`m scared. If you can pull out a gun in front of two -- there`s two kids in
the backseat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Come here. Come here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news. The actor you`re looking at, one of the most recognizable faces on television and in the movies, there he is
costarring with famous actress Diane Keaton in "The First Wives Club." And he always played these clean-cut characters.
Tonight breaking news. This man has been accused in the divorce documents that I`m holding in my hands, by his ex, of being a pedophile, a child
molester. He has resigned from the national board of the Screen Actors Guild. He`s just been fired from an upcoming movie, "Ted 2."
We can tell you that no criminal charges have been filed against him. For the very latest, let`s go to Sara Sidner, CNN correspondent. What are you
learning tonight, Sara?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here`s what we can tell you, Jane. The actor became the target of that child molestation investigation in 2012,
actually in New York City. A police official telling CNN the New York City Police Department probe involves an alleged incident that happened 40 years
ago in New York that was reported to police by an alleged victim in the case. As you mentioned, no charges have ever been filed in this case.
The case has come to light now because TMZ released an audiotape today that it alleges is a recording where Collins makes incriminating statements
about the case. And TMZ says that the recordings were taken by Collins` estranged wife, Faye Grant, during a November 2012 therapy session that the
couple both attended. CNN at this point hasn`t been able to confirm the authenticity of the tape. We don`t know if it`s been edited. We don`t
know if it`s actually his voice.
But today Faye Grant spoke out, telling "E! News" that she did take a recording and handed it over to authorities in 2012. She says, though,
she`s not responsible for the recent leak of the tape to the media. And the NYPD will not confirm or deny whether they have actually heard that
audiotape or have a copy of that recording.
We do now know, and this is just coming in to us, that the New York County District Attorney`s Office told CNN it cannot prosecute this case, because
the statute of limitations has run out.
We know also that the couple is going through a contentious divorce for the past two years.
We know also that the Los Angeles Police Department in 2012 was looking into allegations of criminal behavior involving Collins. That case was
opened, but then it was closed; and there was no crime report and no verified victim. That might explain why the case was closed by the LAPD.
They are reviewing that investigation to make certain that nothing was missed. And the LAPD says they will collaborate with the NYPD if needed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, very thorough report, Sara Sidner, CNN correspondent. Thank you for that breaking news update.
Here`s what`s coming in on Facebook and Twitter, Collins -- this story. "I really like this guy, but if he`s a pervert, he belongs in jail and not to
be let out." Somebody else says, "I don`t believe it. The timing of this coming out is just too convenient." "Forty years later is better than
never. Wrong is wrong, no matter when it happened." So those are different viewpoints coming out.
And let`s go out to the phone lines. Pauline, Virginia. What do you have to say, Pauline, Virginia?
CALLER: Hello, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: This -- hi. This is the -- first of all, I want to say this is the first time I have ever called a television show. But I just had to
call about this particular situation.
People act like molesters have written on the forehead "I`m a molester." They`re supposed to be personable and nice and kind. That`s how they get
the children in. I don`t understand why people think, because he`s a star and he`s good-looking -- he`s drop-dead gorgeous, but it doesn`t mean he`s
not a child molester.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you for that comment, Pauline, Virginia.
Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author of "Undercover Angel," you know, something is troubling me about this. The 40 years, 40 years ago. Also,
the phrase "no verified victims." I mean, I`m not saying it happened or didn`t. I don`t know. I wasn`t there. I know that the allegations in
this nasty divorce battle are contained. They`re jaw-droppers. But where are the victims, and why are they not coming forward?
LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR/AUTHOR: I`m going to tell you right now there are thousands and thousands of victims out there who have not come forward
and would rather this just completely go away. They`re so embarrassed about having -- having that happen to them, and they`re told to repress.
And they`re told, when they do bring it to one adult, one adult may say to them, "You know what? Maybe you`re confused about what happened," and
they`re trying to protect the father. Or, you know, there`s a myriad of cases. And it`s the embarrassment now after 40 years to have one of these
victims come toward and say, "I`m ready to go ahead and prosecute this" when they just want to put it aside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, what about the issue of the statute of limitations. Forty years ago. You heard that there are reports now that
the statute of limitations may have run out in some of these cases.
MURPHY: Yes. And by the way, can I just add to what Lisa says?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
MURPHY: For somebody who`s pretty wealthy, one of the other reasons the victims managed not to press charges is, you know, cha-ching. "Here`s a
check; shut up." That happens far too often. I`m not saying it happened here, but you don`t know.
The statute of limitations is different in every state. This guy was clearly in a lot of jurisdictions. I have no doubt that some of these
cases, at least, could land in civil court, because those statutes of limitation are much longer. If he is in a different jurisdiction,
sometimes the clock stops running. It really depends on the state law in each case.
But I will tell you this. I`m suspicious. So far, according to these documents, he`s admitted -- admitted doing incredibly disgusting --
sexually inappropriate, disgusting things to three little girls.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to his ex-wife. Let me just say this.
MURPHY: No. They`re by his own mouth in the confession, assuming the confession exists, OK?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Allegedly. Yes.
MURPHY: What I`m saying is where there are three, I`m worried there might be 53.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or maybe this is about money. Now I`ve got to tell you: the divorce documents make it clear that there`s a lot of money involved in
here.
Faye Grant expresses in these 2012 documents she`s anxious to divvy up the couple`s assets. Grant says the couple has, wow, about $5 million in the
bank, another $4 million in retirement accounts. They`ve got two adjacent homes in Brentwood worth many millions of dollars.
So Wendy Walsh, psychologist, once their assets are divided up, she in these documents said she basically wants to be free from liability, if an
alleged victim tries to sue. She wants to separate her money out. Is this about money or is this about doing the right thing?
WALSH: I think it might be a bit of both. I think that always, Jane, you`re on the right track when it comes to follow the money. Follow the
money will give you a lot more information than anything else.
And by the way, talking about victims and you saying that they really do need to come forward, I understand what your other guests said, that so
many families of victims don`t want to put the children through it. I mean, I just read Goldie Hawn`s memoir, and she talks about how she was
molested as a girl, and her parents just very kindly said, "Oh, he`s just a bad guy, but you`re OK."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.
WALSH: And therefore, she doesn`t feel too damaged about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I don`t know anything about that. That -- yes.
But getting back to this case, we`re going to stay on top of it. More will undoubtedly will be revealed in the coming days and weeks. But I`ve got to
tell you, this is -- I`ve seen a lot of nasty -- a lot of nasty divorce documents. This one takes the cake. This is the most shocking divorce
document I have ever read, packed with very serious allegations.
Now coming up next, a beautiful young woman steps outside her condo barefoot in the pouring rain, never comes back. Her family frantic,
devastated. They are living a nightmare. What happened to Kayelyn Louder? We`re going to talk exclusively with her sister and her close friend next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her dog, Phyllis, which she loved, and she would never leave that poor little dog anywhere. And she also left barefoot, and she
is very phobic of bugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People don`t just disappear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where 30-year-old Kayelyn Louder lives and was last seen Saturday, September 27.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just at a loss, because I feel like we`ve done everything in our power that we know how to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surveillance footage from outside of Louder`s condo shows her come out in the pouring rain, in bare feet and a tank top, and
never return.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my heart, I know that she has every intention of returning home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a frantic race against time. Friends and family in Utah desperately searching for this beautiful missing woman.
Cops say 30-year-old Kayelyn Louder was last seen ten days ago, leaving her condo in Murray, Utah, which is about 10 miles outside Salt Lake City. She
was barefoot. It was pouring rain. She did not take her keys. She did not take her cell phone. She didn`t take her dog, nothing.
Now we`re hearing that earlier, the day she vanished, Kayelyn called 911 and complained to cops she thought somebody was trying to break into our
condo. Police say they haven`t found any signs of foul play, but friends and neighbors are absolutely terrified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to believe that she was abducted or injured, but at this point, those are the only two options I can see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People don`t just disappear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where 30-year-old Kayelyn Louder lives and was last seen Saturday, September 27th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just at a loss because I feel like we have done everything in our power that we know how to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surveillance footage from outside of Louder`s condo shows her come out in the pouring rain, in bare feet and a tank top and
never return.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my heart I know that she had every intentions of returning home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight a frantic race against time: friends and family in Utah desperately searching for this beautiful missing
woman. Cops say 30-year-old Kayelyn Louder was last seen ten days ago leaving her condo in Murray, Utah which is about 10 miles outside Salt Lake
City. She was barefoot. It was pouring rain. She did not take her keys. She did not take her cell phone. She didn`t take her dog -- nothing.
Now we`re hearing that earlier, the day she vanished, Kayelyn called 911 and complained to cops she thought somebody was trying to break into her
condo. Police say they haven`t found any signs of foul play but friends and neighbors are absolutely terrified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to believe she was abducted or injured, but at this point those are the only two options that I can see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did cops drop the ball? We`re just learning that in the days before she vanished, Kayelyn was in contact with an ex-boyfriend and
the missing woman`s roommate says she saw the ex being nasty to her. Does this mystery ex-boyfriend know where Kayelyn is.
Our "Lion`s Den" panel fired up and ready to debate. But first to my two exclusive guests -- Kayelyn`s close friend Riley and Kayelyn`s sister,
Madi. Madi, thank you so much for joining us. My heart goes out to you. I know you`re living a nightmare. First of all, let me ask you, what has
this been like, these past ten days, for you and your family?
MADI LOUDER RODRIGUEZ, KAYELYN`S SISTER: Just the only way I can explain it is it`s like a nightmare that -- just an out of body experience. It
doesn`t even seem real. Like you never expect that it could ever happen to somebody that you love.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sorry you`re going through this. Now, I was very struck by the fact that she called 911 earlier in the day before she
disappeared and said, I think somebody is trying to break into my condo. What do you know about that and why on earth then wouldn`t police
immediately assume when she vanishes later in that day that it`s foul play? Because apparently they say -- they can`t say for sure it`s foul play.
Come on.
RODRIGUEZ: LOUDER: It`s very frustrating. We just have no evidence of anything. She did call 911. Cops did come out and they checked the area
and said everything was fine, but then again it was way early in the morning and maybe if somebody saw the cops come, they ran or hid or
something. I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Investigators say your sister left her condo in the pouring rain -- no shoes, just shorts and a t-shirt. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her phone, her wallet, purse, her dog that she loves more than anything, was at home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It struck me as odd because she left her dog, Phyllis, which she loved, and she would never leave that poor little dog anywhere
and she also left barefoot and she is very phobic of bugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, so again, why would she leave her keys, her phone, her purse, her wallet, her shoes, and her beloved dog Phyllis to run out into
the rain? Now, the only thing I can think of -- and I`ll go to Riley Welsh, a close friend of the missing young woman -- either she got a call
from somebody that said come on out, I`m going to pick you up, I`ve got a gift for you or something like that. Or, she may have gone to the condo
clubhouse -- it`s a very nice condo.
But I understand that call -- the last call that she made was at 11:00 a.m. and she disappeared around 6:57 p.m. in the evening. So what are your
theories -- Riley? Do you think she was abducted by a stranger? Somebody that she knows? What?
RILEY WELSH, FRIEND OF KAYELYN LOUDER: I mean we have a hundred different scenarios runs through our head just because we`re left with such a lack of
evidence, you know. We`re really hoping that someone out there will see her. We really are still hopeful that she`s alive. We thought that maybe
she`s running outside to meet somebody.
In the video though -- in the surveillance video, you can see her looking back, almost like someone was chasing her, but we can`t be for sure. And
that`s just really scary especially with that 911 call earlier in the morning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she have anything in her hands at all?
WELSH: No, we have not found her car keys, but her car is in front of the condo, so she didn`t leave with that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This ex-boyfriend that appeared recently -- we don`t need to mention his name -- but Madi had she complained about him and said "he`s
bugging me"?
RODRIGUEZ: No, I mean they had broken up quite a while ago. And I`m not for sure if they did stay in contact. I mean she`s 30. She`s her own
person. So a lot of --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently, though -- not to interrupt, but we`re short on time and I want the get the key facts. He had talked to her approximately
four days before, is what I understand. Did she ever complain about anybody harass -- she`s a beautiful young woman -- did she ever complain
about anybody harassing her? Did she call you after she called 911?
WELSH: I mean she was a social worker so she oftentimes ran into a lot of people that were a little off their rocker. So that definitely gives us a
little bit of fright. But I mean no one in particular in the last little while. You know, throughout the years, we have definitely heard of some
people that have been at her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. I want to ask you to stand by, if you could, because we have some of the nation`s top investigators and criminal minds -
- people who can really analyze this stuff with us tonight.
Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author of "Undercover Angel", you`ve been listening to all this. By the way, the cops are not giving us the
surveillance video. I don`t know why not. Wouldn`t that be very useful to show to the world and maybe that would trigger somebody`s recollection, "I
saw her in that outfit"? Or "I saw her around complex".
LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, what do you make of it?
LOCKWOOD: Absolutely, even as part of the neighbor canvass -- allowing people to see. Did you see this at this particular time? Did you see a
vehicle outside?
The fact that she ran out with no shoes, no umbrella, no keys, no purse, no wallet, no dog, all of that -- it appears to me -- my hunch is that she was
spooked by something. She had a 911 call earlier in the day where she thought that somebody may have been breaking in or tampering with her home.
And the next thing you know later on in the afternoon, she`s running from her home, trying to get out as if she was spooked.
Did somebody set something up? Did somebody -- was there a ruse? Was somebody saying that they were going to get her or come outside right now
or this is going to happen? My hunch is that she was spooked, she ran out, and unfortunately there possibly was foul play involved with an abduction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what can we do to find her? Very quickly Britney, Georgia -- what do you have to say?
BRITNEY, GEORGIA (via telephone): I have a question. It always seems that when people call the police and they`re telling them what their issues are,
the police come out for about five or ten minutes and then after that that`s when the issues arrive. That`s when somebody is abducted or that`s
when somebody`s killed. When are the police going to get on their job and actually monitor what`s going on?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s ask on the other side of the break. Did cops drop the ball? I don`t say that just to say it, but the fact is that
they`re saying they don`t see anything that necessarily points to foul play.
Hello, beautiful young woman, barefoot, leaves her precious dog behind, goes out into the rain, is never seen again and she had called 911 earlier
in the day saying somebody was trying to break into her house.
We`ll be back and we`re going to analyze that on the other side.
And then later, a supposedly routine traffic stop explodes in violence. This is how it begins. We`re going to show you how it ended in a second.
It`s unbelievable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- open my doors so I can get out. I`m scared. You get out in front -- there`s two kids in the backseat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just at a loss because I feel like we have done everything in our power that we know how to do. We`ve had friends and
family for the last four days searching for her, putting posters out everywhere that we could imagine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is Kayelyn Louder? Ten days ago, she ran out of her condo apartment leaving her dog and her cell phone behind. She loved her
dog. There`s dozens of photos that we were sent of her holding her dog. She had been, apparently, down in the dumps a little bit lately because she
was out of work.
But Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "30-Day Love Detox", I don`t see a young woman running out barefoot in the pouring rain to commit suicide. It
just doesn`t go that way, does it?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: No. That`s not a suicide, Jane. You can trust me on that. I actually would love to know that when she called 911
earlier, if the police completely searched her entire condo because perhaps whoever was breaking in concealed himself. The police left and now he`s
kidnapped her. And maybe by 6:00 p.m. she was able to escape and that`s why she ran out into the rain. But he went out the same way he had broken
and got her somewhere else.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, what should cops do now to try to find this young woman? Obviously, you know, fingerprint the entire apartment
and do forensic testing, even if it looks neat. Maybe those fingerprints are on there.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. I don`t agree with Wendy Walsh that that`s the scenario that makes sense because she didn`t run screaming. You
know, she lives in a condo building. If you are afraid of somebody and you run screaming, somebody can help you, it doesn`t make sense.
WALSH: But she looked behind her.
MURPHY: But I think what makes more sense is that she was vulnerable. She clearly was struggling with some mental health issue. She was out of work.
People who are vulnerable are, you know, they`re targets for the bad guys in the world who take advantage. Come with me. I`ll help you. I`ll give
you money. I`ll give you whatever it is you need. I`ll take care of you. They`re desperate.
I think it`s somebody she knew. I think the cops should release the 911 tape. They should release the picture of what she looked like when she
left. Then we can all help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Madi Louder Rodriguez, I want to give you a chance to comment. Your sister -- do you think someone might have preyed on her,
in a sense like, I can help you find a job. Come with me. But she wouldn`t be running out in the rain, barefoot to go -- none of it makes
sense. Nothing makes sense.
RODRIGUEZ: No, I just know my sister is a very, very friendly person. Everybody in her condo that we have talked to just said, she`d always come
up to me and, you know, say hi, how are you. And I just know that if somebody were to prey on somebody like her that she would be very friendly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`ve got to get on all the surveillance video on all the stops in the area. They`ve got to find out if somebody did have
her in a car -- where did they go? My heart goes out to both you, Riley and Madi. Keep in touch. Tell us every little bit. And try to get the
cops to release that the surveillance video. We want to do the story again and the 911 call.
WELSH: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good luck to you. Keep us posted. My heart`s with you.
RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.
Next, did cops cross the line during this traffic stop? You have to see it to believe it. See the ending. It`s bizarre and just shocking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s two kids in the backseat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In tonight`s "Naked Truth": a terrified family faces off with cops. It`s all caught on cell phone video. An Indiana woman says she
was driving to see her dying mother who was in the hospital. Her boyfriend is in the passenger seat. Her two kids ages 7 and 14 are in the backseat.
They are pulled over by police because she, the driver, allegedly isn`t wearing a seat belt.
Now the cops asked the male passenger sitting next to her for ID and as he reaches for some document, the guns get drawn by cops. His girlfriend, the
driver, who is on the phone with a 911 operator, says they are in fear for their lives because the cops are acting very aggressively according them.
The cops repeatedly asked the man to get out of the car from the passenger side. He refuses and that`s when the cops -- well guess what -- you get to
watch and after you watch, we`ll debate. What`s going on here?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now they`re asking me to open my door so I can get out. I`m scared. If you can pull out a gun in front of two -- there`s
two kids in the backseat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, don`t listen. Now they`re about to bust -- no.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, they busted my window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not operating this vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to open the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say somebody`s not going to hunt you? People are getting shot by the police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- wait, wait -- are you recording?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- is videotaping. They are now suing.
Wendy Walsh, psychologist, I can see that you`re very upset by this.
WALSH: I`m upset by the crying child. That`s what I heard this. This was absolute undue use of force. This is child abuse -- these poor children.
The trauma these children went through witnessing them, witnessing this just because a man who they know was sitting in the passenger`s seat.
That`s all he was doing. He wasn`t even driving while black. He was riding while black.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Lockwood, I know some people say, well, if he just got out of the car. But the point is, they are driving. And she is pulled
over for -- not for armed robbery -- for not having her seatbelt on.
LOCKWOOD: Seatbelt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she is going to visit her mother who is sick in the hospital. Why do they need his ID?
LOCKWOOD: This is the good -- here is the greatest question. Why was this so escalated? Yes, they have a right to ask the passenger for their
identification to identify them. It is part of the stop. So legally they can ask for their identification. Did he have to exit the vehicle?
Absolutely not. Did he reach for his citations in an attempt to give it to the officer? Yes, he did, according to reports. Did he need to roll his
window down completely? No. He had verbal communication with that police officer.
Why was there a stopstick put in front of that vehicle? What did the police think prior to that stop? Because we know police make stops not
just for seatbelt violations. Did they think that something had gone on prior to that and used the seatbelt violation as a probable cause to find
out who is inside the vehicle and for what reason.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he`s tased, by the way, not once but allegedly twice. And now they`re suing.
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, here`s my question to you. Usually when things go wrong no one is 100 percent right or wrong, it`s usually a
combination of factors. But the bottom line, I have to ask you, had it been a middle-aged white couple in a Mercedes Benz doing the same thing,
would it have ended up this way? Would they have put a spike strip, which destroys the tires allegedly is what they did, in front of the vehicle.
Would they have demanded the passenger`s ID? I mean what is going on here?
MURPHY: Of course not. Look, from what we know, this looks to be a cop who was suspicious about this guy. Maybe thought he was a drug dealer. I
don`t know. But the cop was clearly not going to respect this guy`s right to say get out of my face. On the other hand, the guy sat with his window
down like this much for 13 minutes while the woman`s mother is dying in a hospital. Do you have to have your civil rights protested while this
woman`s mother is dying in the hospital? Can`t you have your protest another day?
I just don`t understand. Why did it escalate? Because the cops were needlessly suspicious, probably because he was black and the guy was being
obstinate probably because he felt, you know, discriminated against because he`s black. But had he just gotten out of car, none of this would have
happened. Let`s be clear about that. I`m not sure the cops would disagree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Watch what happened.
WALSH: I don`t know that that`s true. I don`t know that that`s true, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
WALSH: I think if he had gotten out of this car, these men had guns pulled on him. They didn`t know what was going to happen. You heard the woman
saying that on the phone. They have guns pulled and they want us to get out of the car, we are afraid. She basically said we`re too afraid to get
out of the car.
MURPHY: Oh please, I`m not going to get out of the car for a cop because I think the cop`s going to shoot me. That`s outrageous -- that`s ridiculous.
WALSH: Well, it happens in America.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. Hold on, hold on.
They do express fear during the call. And I think that part of it is, that in the wake of a lot of things that have happened, Ferguson, et cetera,
you`re seeing a lot of people, particularly African-Americans who are apprehensive of what is going to happen in an interaction.
MURPHY: The cops are afraid too, Jane. There was a cop not too far down the road who got shot that same day. Cops are afraid too. Everybody is
afraid. That doesn`t make either side right in this mess.
LOCKWOOD: The piece that we`re missing is what was the real reason for the stop? Why were they so suspicious about that passenger? What happened
prior to that vehicle being stopped? That`s what we need to know. Did the police officers actually see something? Possible drug transaction --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. I got read the statement. Police -- this is Hammond, Indiana Police Department. "Police officers who make legal
traffic stops are allowed to ask basically for ID and to request that they exit a vehicle for the officer`s safety without a requirement of reasonable
suspicion."
So they`re saying it was in their rights to ask this man to get out of the vehicle and he did not get out of vehicle. Therefore, they had the right
to smash the window and taser him -- the legal right, according to them. My question is why the attitude from the get-go when you have two kids in
the back seat? You`ve got a seven-year-old girl, the one who ends up, she says, being showered with glass. This is part of the lawsuit.
When you see people with children -- and I`m going to give Wendy Walsh the last word on this -- should that change the equation?
WALSH: Absolutely. The police officers see the children. They know there are minors at risk. Everyone needs to be more careful. As you know, Jane,
my children are African-American. This whole scene terrifies me. And my daughter just started driving this week. Ok, America, she is on the roads
with you. I have given her such a lecture, about if she gets pulled over, do everything the police officer says. Make sure --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to leave it there but we hear your message. It`s sad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
