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Inside Politics

Pressure on Rice to Testify; Will Boston Convention Hurt Kerry?

Aired March 28, 2004 - 10:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway at CNN Center. The headlines at this hour.
Negotiations between the government of Pakistan and tribal groups in the region near the Afghanistan border have led to the release of 11 Pakistani fighters. In return, government forces have agreed to pull back from a tribal town, although they will remain in that area.

Now, the region is the scene of intense fighting between Pakistani forces and what are believed to be Al Qaeda fighters.

And members of the Arab League called off a summit meeting set to start Sunday citing, quote, "difference in views." The meeting was to have been held in Tunisia. One official says the disagreements were over core issues of democracy and human rights.

Meanwhile, Egypt has offered to host a rescheduled conference.

And the new leader of Hamas has called President Bush a, quote, "enemy of God, an enemy of Islam and an enemy of Muslims." Abdel Aziz Rantissi delivered the speech in a memorial speech for Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, who was killed by an Israeli helicopter attack on Monday.

I'm Catherine Callaway. INSIDE POLITICS is next.

KELLY WALLACE, HOST: INSIDE POLITICS today, going after the Bush administration on national security. The White House fights back.

Should the Democrats pick their vice presidential candidate now or later? We weigh the case for an early decision.

And he doesn't talk boxers or briefs, but John Kerry makes an appearance on MTV. That's straight ahead.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, this is INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

WALLACE: I'm Kelly Wallace. Politics doesn't take weekends off, and neither do we. Thanks for joining us. It is Sunday, March 28.

Well, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY begins with the latest on the Richard Clarke controversy and the White House counter attack.

Vice President Dick Cheney tells "TIME" magazine that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is getting, quote, "a bum wrap."

Rice is featured on "TIME's" cover with this headline: "Feeling the Heat." It's a reference to her refusal to testify in public before the September 11 commission and to Clarke's charges the White House mishandled the war on terrorism.

Clarke, the former White House terrorism adviser, isn't backing away from his criticism, even as some Republicans are calling into question his credibility. Clarke appeared this morning on NBC's "Meet the Press."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTER TERRORISM ADVISER: Because I have no obligation anymore to spin. When you're in the White House you spin. People have been doing a lot of that against me this week.

You know, they're engaged in a campaign, people on the taxpayers' rolls, dozens of people on the taxpayers' rolls, are engaged in the campaign to destroy me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And we will hear more from Richard Clarke today when he appears as Judy woodruff's special guest on "LATE EDITION." That starts at 12 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Well, Condoleezza Rice makes her case on the September 11 dispute in an appearance tonight on CBS's "60 Minutes." She faces increasing bipartisan pressure to testify publicly before the commission. That is something she refuses to do, citing executive privilege.

And all this may be taking a toll on the president's approval rating.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House insists National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice refuses to publicly testify before the 9/11 commission as a matter of executive privilege, but a Republican member of the commission says by standing on legal principles they're shooting themselves in the foot politically.

JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: I think the White House is making a political blunder, an important miscalculation of the political impact of this. Condoleezza Rice should testify before our commission.

BASH: Democrats aren't letting it go.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do "60 Minutes" on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath.

BASH: The stepped up pressure for Rice to testify, even from within GOP ranks, comes as the White House continues to blanket the airwaves to try to stop political hemorrhaging over Richard Clarke's charge the president wasn't aggressive enough in confronting terror threats leading up to 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steady leadership in times of change.

BASH: Mr. Bush is building his reelection campaign around his stewardship against terrorism. It has been, aides say, his best political asset.

But a new poll suggests approval of how the president handles terrorism has dropped eight points since last month, from 65 percent to 57 percent.

Republicans say the counter offensive to discredit Clarke as someone who's changed his story must continue.

GLENN BOLGER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: There's going to be a very small group of voters in the middle who have to kind of weigh both sides and make up their mind on who they trust: Richard Clarke before he wrote his book or Richard Clarke after he wrote his book.

BASH: Democrats called it character assassination and predict it will further hurt, not help, the president.

MICHAEL FELDMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The ferocity of the attacks against Dick Clarke this week could backfire against the Bush administration, because I think Americans deserve and expect real answers to the underlying charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, as for Senator Kerry's new pressure on Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly before the commission, a Bush campaign spokeswoman said he is simply trying to politicize these hearings, even saying that he's unfairly calling into question Dr. Rice's integrity. One aide saying that this is the political overreach of the century -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Dana, you know Washington so well. One thing that many people think is the more you talk about an issue, the more it is out there in the headlines.

Is the White House hoping that after Dr. Rice's appearance tonight on "60 minutes" that's sort of the end of the television counter offensive?

BASH: Well, it's really unclear at this point. You're right, Kelly, it's sort of the classic question is whether -- how far should you go in responding because it certainly does run the risk of keeping the story alive.

But Republicans outside the administration and inside really say that at this point Clarke's accusations have gotten so much publicity, first of all, last Sunday on "65 minutes" 15 million viewers. And then, of course, blanket coverage all week. They felt that they had absolutely no choice to respond. Also, of course, you know, as I mentioned earlier it is the whole question of the subject you're talking about. It is the fight against terrorism and the whole question of that from somebody who worked within the administration, something that they really feel they cannot let go unanswered at all, Kelly.

WALLACE: Well Dana, we'll certainly be watching your reporting. Dana Bash, White House correspondent, thank you for joining us from Crawford, Texas.

Well, in the Kerry campaign, the issue of same sex marriages surfaced during the taping of a television special. The senator's interview with MTV's Gideon Yago is set to air Tuesday night.

One viewer asked the Senator why he doesn't support gay marriages over civil union. He says it is about tradition but he is also saying he's giving gay couples equal rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS: You think somebody is born gay or they choose to be gay?

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I think it's entirely who you are from birth, personally. I don't think -- I mean, some people might choose, but I think that it's who you are. It's in your system. It's in your genes. It's just the balance.

And I think that people have a right in America to be who they are, who they are born as. And we're all God's children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And the Democratic candidate is attending church this morning in St. Louis. He heads to California later in the day, where he will spend several days fund-raising. And MTV news correspondent Gideon Yago joins us later in the show.

Now let's tear into the top headlines that are shaping the campaign debate. Here to discuss the issues, Bush-Cheney national spokesman Terry Holt and for the Kerry campaign communications director Stephanie Cutter.

Thank you both for joining us.

TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY NATIONAL SPOKESMAN: It's great to be back.

WALLACE: Happy to have you. Terry, let me first go to you.

I want the viewers to see a poll that Dana Bash used in her report. A "Newsweek" poll showing when people are asked their approval of how President Bush is handling the war on terrorism.

You see it is down from 65 percent in February, down to 57 percent now. That's an eight percentage drop. It has to be some concern to you all.

HOLT: Well, I'll tell you. The polls are going to go back and forth. Ultimately, the president still has very strong numbers when it comes to being a strong and principled leader.

This last week -- The American people should be concerned about this 9/11 commission being hijacked by a political opportunist like Dick Clarke. I find it fascinating that, as a public official he said he was spinning in the White House.

And that stands in stark contrast to Condi Rice, this disciplined, informed person, determined leader who went from changing the entire national security bureaucracy from swatting at flies to targeting Al Qaeda.

That's what we learned this week. But the noise of Dick Clarke and his personal agenda got in the way of that.

WALLACE: But you heard a Republican member of that September 11 commission saying it's, quote, "a political blunder" for Dr. Rice not testify publicly.

HOLT: But the 9/11 commission -- the 9/11 commission is about finding out the facts, how we got to 9/11 and how we responded to it.

The idea that politics -- you know, national security adviser is an adviser to the president with a very specific role in the White House. And she's made herself available, widely available, to all questions from all reporters from all facets of this debate.

And she has the veracity of the arguments on her side, in stark contrast to the contradictions and the spin of Dick Clarke.

WALLACE: Stephanie, the question from the Republicans is that Senator Kerry is trying to politicize this. Politicize something like September 11 by wading into the controversy yesterday.

STEPHANIE CUTTER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Well, you know, it's interesting, Kelly, that Terry brings up spinning. Spinning is exactly what this administration has been doing for the past week.

Instead of getting to the truth, getting to the facts, Condoleezza Rice has been on over a dozen programs this week, spinning her story. And if she can spend the time going to "60 Minutes," going to network news, why can't she go under oath before the 9/11 commission?

They're precedent for it. If they are, indeed, determined to get to the truth, to get to the facts, they should go before the commission.

WALLACE: Aren't there some risks, though, for Democrats in any way to use and use this issue? Because in that same "Newsweek" poll, some 65 percent of those polled said they believe the Clinton administration did not take terrorism seriously enough. CUTTER: This is not about casting blame. This is not about who did what. This is about getting to the facts so that we can make sure that we don't have another terrorist attack.

You know, John Kerry was not stepping into politics yesterday. He was urging Condoleezza Rice to take herself out of politics and go under oath before the 9/11 commission. The families want to hear it. The 9/11 commission wants to hear it. I think the American public wants to hear it.

HOLT: It should be noted that Condoleezza Rice has already been before the commission and testified behind closed doors. She said late last week that she was willing to do so again and make herself available as long as it was required to answer all the questions the 9/11 commission...

CUTTER: Well, it is required and it is required in public under oath. I don't understand what they're hiding from. There is precedent for national security advisers to go before Congress.

WALLACE: And you can't -- Of course, I don't want you to sit here, speaking for the White House, per se. But you're a campaign strategist. Politically, is it causing you any problems to not have Dr. Rice publicly go before the commission?

HOLT: Well, the American people get this story. In the same poll, a huge number of people, I think more than 50 percent, said that Dick Clarke's motives were political. They obviously were. He's trying to sell a book.

So you can -- you can spin this any way you want. But ultimately, people wanted to hear the facts out of the 9/11 commission. They were hearing it, except for that noise. And you know, they filtered that noise out from Dick Clarke this week.

CUTTER: If this is not about politics and if this is getting to the facts and if Richard Clarke is, indeed, playing politics, why did this administration launch the most ferocious attack and smear campaign against him?

On one hand, you have Condi Rice putting him at the center of the tragedy on 9/11.

HOLT: We just put his own words out there, Stephanie. Just showed what he said.

CUTTER: What we want your own words. We want your own words. We want to get to the bottom of this.

WALLACE: Let me get in. Senate Republican leader, Majority Leader Bill Frist on the Senate floor Friday, raising many questions about Richard Clarke's credibility and calling for a declassification of his testimony before a House-Senate intelligence panel.

My question to you, did the campaign or the White House have any heads up about what the senator was going to do, and do you support it?

HOLT: In fact, I was watching the senator's speech as it was going on. The senator raises serious questions. If you say one thing here and another thing there, and the ultimate goal of the commission is to get the straight answers, we should reconcile Dick Clarke's contradictions.

WALLACE: All right. We'll pick up here. We'll take it to the economy, politics, much more. Sit tight right there. We have a lot to talk about, including a new ad.

And later, rolling out the big rig to attract the MTV crowd. Both parties are going the extra mile to court younger voters.

And coming up, our very own Bill Schneider will join us from the Bay State to talk about the hometown of the other JFK from Massachusetts.

This is INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And we've been talking about the stories that are shaping the presidential race, continuing that discussion now with Bush-Cheney national spokesman Terry Holt and Kerry campaign communications director Stephanie Cutter.

Let's focus on the economy, shall we? First, let's take a listen to a new ad released by the Bush-Cheney reelection team targeting John Kerry. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got tax cuts in place that will help the economy grow. We've also got plans to help people get the skills necessary to fill the new jobs of the 21st Century. I'm optimistic about America because I believe in the people of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And we're giggling because that ad the president is talking about himself. It's a great spot, exactly.

But Stephanie, the ad that we wanted to show...

CUTTER: Right.

WALLACE: ... Bush-Cheney team talking about John Kerry, saying he voted in the past to raise taxes on Social Security benefits, on gasoline, saying that, in essence, to pay for all his spending proposals he'll have to raise taxes on the American people.

Is this a problem for you? That ad is appearing in many states across the country. CUTTER: No. I think that the votes that they are talking about are votes that have to do with the 1993 economic plan that Bill Clinton put in place and John Kerry fought for on the Senate floor.

That economic plan was responsible for 23 million jobs. What is it that this administration has against jobs?

HOLT: The 1993 bill increased taxes on seniors. They tried to impose a 50-cent per gallon tax on gasoline. If you think gas prices are expensive out there today, add 50 cents and that would be the Kerry economy. That would kill the economy.

CUTTER: Can we just get off the gas tax for one second?

HOLT: And you know, he was in Detroit the other day. It was in Detroit the other day, giving a speech about gimmicks that he wants to raise -- increase taxes on small business while he gives tax cuts for corporations.

WALLACE: Let me -- I want to say that, because you talked about a five percent cut in a corporate tax rate, and quoting the Senator there, he says, quote, "Some may be surprised to hear a Democrat call for lower corporate tax rates."

This has to be a real good...

HOLT: The Benedict Arnolds are going to get the first tax relief of the Kerry administration. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

WALLACE: But isn't it a bigger problem to paint him as a taxer and spender if he's coming out to sort of say, "Hey, I'm a moderate pro-business guy. I'm cutting taxes."

HOLT: That's a flip-flop, because in May of last year he voted against the very same proposal that he put forth in his speech the other day.

WALLACE: He did vote against...

CUTTER: He did. You're right he did, because he believes any type of tax incentive has to be part of an overall growth package. What he introduced on Friday was a pro-growth, pro-jobs package.

You know, it's interesting to hear Terry attack this package, because it is widely recognized by the nation's leading labor economists as something that really will spur job growth.

We know what we're doing. We were here in the '90s; we produced 23 million jobs. But all they have is excuses. Where is the president's plan to create jobs? Tax cuts for the rich is not going to create jobs.

WALLACE: Very quickly. We're running out of time. Two news items: Karen Hughes, one of the president's top advisers, "The New York Times" saying she is coming back and will be back in a full-time capacity. What is this about?

HOLT: Well, she moved back to Texas and she's written a book, but she's always been deeply involved with our effort. You know, we trust and respect her judgment. And anybody who doesn't know she hasn't been around hasn't been paying much attention, because she's always with us.

WALLACE: And one question for you. The senator's surgery coming up this week on Wednesday, serious? A voter said does he have a Dick Cheney problem on the stomach yesterday?

CUTTER: No. The senator is very athletic and very active. And you know, we have all seen him bike riding and skiing and playing football.

He has a -- just a slight tear in a tendon that he has to get fixed now. Otherwise, it will grow into a more serious problem. So he's going to take a day to get it done.

WALLACE: And five seconds, you've heard a story about the FBI files and all through his files relating to Vietnam Veterans Against the War, John Kerry, they've been stolen. Any comments that you know about that?

CUTTER: He was very surprised to hear of this. I mean, this is a man who fought for his country and came back and fought against a war that he thought was wrong. And to hear that the FBI was following him was, you know, shocking, surprising and really disturbing.

WALLACE: OK. We've got to leave it there. Stephanie Cutter with the Kerry campaign; Terry Holt, Bush-Cheney reelection team. We hope you'll make this a regular stop, on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Thanks so much.

Well, we are now checking the headlines in the Sunday edition of our "Campaign News Daily."

Chasing NASCAR votes. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist heads to the Bristol Motor Speedway in Tennessee for a stock car race this afternoon where he will gather with thousands of NASCAR families.

And Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo hits the airwaves this Wednesday on the new liberal radio network, Air America. Shows like "The O'Franken Factor" will be heard in New York, Chicago, L.A. and San Francisco.

And not to be outdone a former Bush administration official is getting her message out as well. We've just been talking about her.

Karen Hughes, former adviser and close friend of President Bush, releases her book this week. It is called "Ten Minutes from Normal." The title is taken, she says, from a train conductor's announcement she heard while on the campaign trail.

And it seems that Ralph Nader has found an unexpected source of campaign contributions for his presidential run. Some ardent Republicans are sending him cash.

The "Dallas Morning News" newspaper did an analysis of federal campaign contribution records. They show that nearly 10 percent of Nader contributions are coming from people in the past have strongly supported Republican candidates.

Several of those donors contacted by the paper said they don't expect him to win and that they're giving to President Bush, as well.

Well later, a new addition to the V.P. list. You won't believe whose name is being mentioned now.

Plus, same sex marriages can begin in Massachusetts just months before the Democratic convention. Will this reinforce the state's, quote, "liberal image"? The story behind the story from our political analyst, Bill Schneider.

And...

DAVID LETTERMAN, "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN" HOST: Here we go top ten ways Dennis Kucinich can still be the next president of the United States.

No. 10...

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... keep doing what I'm doing. I'm winning, right?

LETTERMAN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: We catch up with the late night comics on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Our own Bill Schneider joins us from Boston today with the latest on another JFK's run for the White House.

Good morning, Bill, great to see you.

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Kelly.

You know, in four months the Democrats will be coming here to Boston to nominate a son of Massachusetts for president. Question, is this a good place for Democrats to be doing that?

Let's look at the story behind the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Could this be a latter day warning from Paul Revere: the Democrats are coming, the Democrats are coming!

Boston is the famously liberal capitol of a famously liberal state, a state whose highest court has ruled that same sex couples must be allowed to marry, a position John Kerry doesn't happen to agree with.

KERRY: I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

SCHNEIDER: Though he disagrees with President Bush on the need for a federal constitutional amendment to ban it.

KERRY: For 200 years we have left marriage up to the states.

SCHNEIDER: In Massachusetts, that means same sex marriages can begin in May, just in time for the Democratic convention, which will have a tribute to Senator Edward Kennedy on the first night. Kennedy, the lion king of liberals.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: War in Iraq was a war of choice, not a war of necessity.

SCHNEIDER: Whoops, Kerry voted to authorize that war.

Kerry hopes the convention will evoke the image of another Kennedy, not the one who was famously liberal, the one who is famously tough.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not intend to be lectured on intervention by those who character was stamped for all times on the bloody streets of Budapest.

SCHNEIDER: That's how Kerry wants to be seen.

KERRY: And if George Bush wants to make national security the centerpiece of this campaign, we have three words for him that we know he understands, bring it on!

SCHNEIDER: Republicans have other plans.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people will have a clear choice in the election of 2004, at least as clear as any since the election of 1984.

SCHNEIDER: In 1984 the Democrats met in San Francisco, and Republicans wouldn't let voters forget it.

JEANE KIRKPATRICK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: The American people, proud of our country, proud of our freedom, proud of ourselves, will reject the San Francisco Democrat and send Ronald Reagan back to the White House.

SCHNEIDER: You may be hearing the same speech at this year's Republican convention about Boston Democrats and George Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: You may also be hearing Democrats here at the Boston convention chanting "JFK, JFK!" For John Forbes Kerry, of course -- Kelly. WALLACE: Well, Bill, putting on your political strategist cap, with the tribute to Senator Ted Kennedy and with the possibility that you'll have same sex marriages actually taking place during the convention, is it possible for John Kerry to shed the sort of Massachusetts liberal label and portray a tough Democrat at this convention?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I think he can certainly stand up before that convention, make known his views on the issue of same sex marriage.

And right now, this coming week, the Massachusetts constitutional convention will be meeting to consider a constitutional amendment that would override the court and carry out exactly what he wants. That is, that would reserve marriage for a man and woman. In which case he'll be fine.

WALLACE: Well, he'll be watching that closely. Bill Schneider, enjoy Boston.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

WALLACE: We'll see you back here in Washington.

Well, up ahead another deadly blast in Iraq overnight. We will check the stories making headlines this hour.

Also, no word yet from the Kerry campaign on its V.P. search, but a few names are being tossed around. We'll find out in our "Morning Grind."

And we'll examine the latest effort to get the MTV generation to the polls. That is all ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway in Atlanta. We have the latest developments for you.

British officials in Iraq say that two civilians have been killed in the northern city of Mosul. One was British, but details of the incident were not released. And 30 miles north of Baghdad, a roadside bomb hit two U.S. Humvees, leaving at least three U.S. soldiers wounded.

And in Israel, the chief prosecutor is recommending the indictment of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. At issue: his alleged role in a bribery scandal in the 1990s, when Mr. Sharon was foreign minister. An Israeli businessman has already been charged in that case. And Israel's attorney general must approve before any indictment a decision which is at least a month away.

National elections are postponed in Afghanistan. President Hamid Karzai says that they will be delayed three months, from June to September. He says too few voters are registered yet among Afghanistan's population of 11 million. The country plans both parliamentary and presidential elections. Afghanistan is trying to rebuild after a quarter century of war.

I'm Catherine Callaway in Atlanta. INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY continues.

WALLACE: And welcome back.

Here with our Sunday cup of "The Morning Grind," our very own CNN political editor, John Mercurio.

Good morning, John.

JOHN MERCURIO, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Good morning, Kelly. Good to see you.

WALLACE: Great to see you.

Well, of course, the Kerry campaign doesn't want to talk at all about the search for a vice president, but everybody likes talking about. What's the latest?

MERCURIO: It's America's favorite parlor game.

WALLACE: Absolutely.

MERCURIO: We know that three of four -- three of four Democrats or Democratic insider who presumably have John Kerry's ear at this point told The National Journal last week that they want Kerry to make a decision quickly, and it's a very simple reason: they think that it can help him with fund raising. I mean, he needs -- it's easier to make money with two people than with one, and they want a surrogate to be able to get out there as soon as possible to help him raise money.

The National Journal has been polling for the past 19 weeks on Democratic prospects. The same five people who led earlier this month still lead. You have John Edwards, Dick Gephardt, current New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson -- sorry I couldn't read that name -- Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack and Florida Senator Bob Graham. Those are sort of like the top dive candidates. And these are according to Democratic insiders.

WALLACE: Any way to tell who's up, who's down, who scores points?

I will just tell you one funny thing; some people noticed that John Edwards got in between President Clinton and John Kerry at the unity dinner the other night...

MERCURIO: Oh, absolutely.

WALLACE: ...and it sounded like the Kerry team wasn't so happy about that.

MERCURIO: Well, that's exactly a -- that's a very good point.

I mean, Kerry was really upset with the way things were handled in 2000. He didn't like the very public way that Gore -- that Al Gore handled his search process. So what Kerry really sort of dislikes now, I think, is the Democrats who are sort of self-promoting, who are out there sort of pushing their own name. You hear people's names like New Mexico Governor Richardson and Bob Graham, whose names were up there.

I think that the more you kind of self-promote right now, the less likely you are to be chosen. But again, it's so far off nobody's -- nobody with -- nobody who knows anything is saying anything, so....

WALLACE: So memo to anyone watching: be quiet to keep your name...

MERCURIO: One name that people are talking about this week is Bob Kerrey, the former senator from Nebraska who is serving on the September 11 Commission, who was very prominent this week, a very partisan defender of the -- a very -- he spoke like a good Democrat, I guess, would.

So I think a lot of people are talking about him as a possible candidate. A Kerry-Kerrey ticket be hard to swallow for some people. But I guess...

WALLACE: Hard to say, right? Kerry-Kerrey.

MERCURIO: Hard to say, yes.

WALLACE: What -- speaking of the September 11 Commission, and you know, of course, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist on the floor Friday, calling for declassifying Richard Clarke's testimony before the House and Senate intelligence panels.

What are you sensing from your source about Democrats, how they're responding?

MERCURIO: Democrats were a little surprised by Frist's speech. I mean, a lot of people weren't -- didn't see it coming at all. I mean, you had Terry Holt on earlier who said he sort of watched it happen, as it happened.

So they were caught a little flatfooted, but I talked to some democrats this weekend who said they're going to come out this week strong. You're going to Tom Daschle., the minority leader; you're going to see Harry Reid, his assistant, and all sorts of other Democrats on the Intelligence Committee come out and demand that if the White House declassifies those documents that they also demand that Condi Rice testify under oath in public before the commission.

The other thing I'm hearing you're going to see that's sort of interesting is former national security advisers, both Democrat and Republican, coming out and requesting that Condi Rice testify. It will be interesting -- I don't have the actual names of any Republicans. But remember that Brent Scowcroft early last year was sort of an early critic of going to war so quickly against Iraq, so...

WALLACE: Are your sources -- I heard from a couple of people -- these are Democrats, but they thought that ultimately the pressure is just going to be too much, that Dr. Rice is eventually going to have to testify publicly under oath.

MERCURIO: That's exactly what I'm hearing.

I mean, she's going to go on "60 Minutes" tonight. I mean, as you were talking to people earlier today. I don't think this puts -- I think you talked to Dana Bash about this. I don't think it's going to put the issue to rest. I think it's just going to sort of revive the news for next week.

WALLACE: OK. John Mercurio, CNN's political editor, great to see you.

MERCURIO: Great to see you, too.

WALLACE: Thanks.

And for the best and funniest and sometimes sarcastic daily briefing on politics, don't miss John's "Morning Grind." Got to www.cnn.com/grind for all the latest political news.

Well, up next, MTV and Rock the Vote team up. Their goal: mobilizing 20 million voters between 18 and 30 to get to the polls this November. We'll talk to MTV's Gideon Yago about his one-on-one interview with Senator John Kerry and the senator's memory of his own rock n' roll band.

That's next on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Every presidential election cycle, candidates do their best to capture young voters. And without a doubt, one of the places that professional politicians turn to for exposure is MTV.

Coming up this Tuesday is a new MTV News special. It's called "Choose or Lose: 20 Million Questions for John Kerry."

And with me now from New York is Gideon Yago. He is an MTV News correspondent.

And here in Washington is Hans Reimer. He is the political director of Rock the Vote.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today.

GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Thanks a lot, Kelly.

WALLACE: Gideon, let me begin with you.

What an exclusive for you. Very exciting, an interview with John Kerry. Set the stage for us. What was it like and how much access did you get to the Democratic candidate?

YAGO: Well, this is actually the fourth time that we've had a chance to go face to face with John Kerry. But it was the first time that we did a really protracted sit-down interview where we took questions from the MTV audience and brought them to the man himself. They were straight from kids, undecided voters and I thought he did a very good job.

WALLACE: Let's show, Gideon, our viewers one question -- I believe one of the people that you had ask him a question was asking him about kind of John Kennedy inspired John Kerry, but then John Kerry was asked who really inspires young voters right now.

Let's listen to what Senator Kerry said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: That's a good question.

You know, it's just a different time right now. And as I talk to my daughters, who are, you know, recent graduates of college and out there, they tell me that a lot of young people just don't have that kind of feeling right now, certainly not about politics. And I regret that. That's one of the things that I would like to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: So Hans, let me bring you in. Are young voters not inspired right now?

HANS REIMER, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, ROCK THE VOTE: I would actually disagree. I think they are engaged in this election cycle, and that the 9/11 -- the events of 9/11 have created a different atmosphere for young people today.

And we're seeing anecdotally -- we had 12,000 people filled out voter registration forms on our Web site last week. We're seeing a lot of interest peaking. People are paying more attention.

And sure, candidates will have to do a better job inspiring them and capturing their imagination. But we're looking towards a big increase in turnout for November.

WALLACE: Gideon, from the interview with Senator Kerry and the questions from young voters, what are the key issues that young voters care about right now?

YAGO: It's jobs, it's paying for college and it's foreign policy, namely the fact that it's young people fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

WALLACE: So it's a lot of the same issues, then, Gideon, that adults, older voters -- we don't like to call ourselves old -- but, older voters.

YAGO: To a certain extent, though, they approach from a different angle. It's young people that are just really breaking into the job market. So when you talk about there not being a lot of jobs created, it's young people who really feel that most extremely.

Also, when it comes to paying for college, and college education, it's young people who take out massive loans and go into massive debt to basically get a college degree so that they can get a job.

And, like I said, it's young people that are fighting these wars.

So their experience when it comes to the issues is a little different from the rest of the population at large.

WALLACE: Very interesting, though, to watch the courting of the young voters. We saw what the Republicans call Reggie, the registration rig, sitting in Times Square.

You had Ed Gillespie, the Republican...

YAGO: On Total Request Live.

WALLACE: Yes! National committee chairman speaking on MTV.

Hans, give me a sense -- how active are both parties right now compared to years past, in terms of getting the young vote?

REIMER: I think it's way up, and it's exciting to see. The fact that the Republican Party would target TRL to bring their truck through; they have X-Box on the truck. They have a whole suite of idea about how to reach this population. John Kerry the same day doing an MTV interview.

I think it's really exciting to see that they're taking young voters seriously. And that is going to have a result.

WALLACE: One interesting thing we saw -- and I want our viewers to see this. A poll -- a Newsweek poll asking young people 18- to 29-year-olds who they support. And if you take a look at it, 38 percent for President Bush, 47 percent for John Kerry but Ralph Nader getting 12 percent. And you have heard some political analysts expressing some concern that Ralph Nader could attract young voters away from the other candidates.

Gideon, what did you pick up from your interviewing about the Nader factor?

YAGO: We didn't really pick up much. I mean, I am waiting to see if he gets actually on the national ticket before I start prognosticating on that.

WALLACE: And Gideon, I guess we have to ask you, when are you going to get President Bush to appear on an MTV News "Choose or Lose" special?

YAGO: We're hoping. He's done it in the past. We're really hoping that the Republicans and the White House, just as the Democrats have already started to do, realize that the young voter is the swing voter, and that they're up for grabs and that getting 20 million of them to the polls this election year could swing this election one way or another.

WALLACE: Hans, last word from you. Young voters, are they swing voters? REIMER: Oh, absolutely. Clinton won them by 20 percent. Bush cut that margin to almost nothing. They go back and forth, and I think they're both going after them right now.

They're surge voters and they're swing voters, and however they come down on Election Day is really going to make a difference.

WALLACE: Well, great work you both are doing.

Hans Reimer, political director for Rock the Vote.

Gideon Yago, MTV news correspondent.

Again, the plug, MTV News special, Tuesday night, 10:30 p.m., be sure to catch that.

Well, coming up now, in the September 11 blame game, who was up and who was down? Or does everybody lose? Stay tuned for our reporter roundtable. That is coming up just ahead on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): And now a campaign flashback, the election of 1952. On March 29, President Harry Truman announced he would not seek re-election and threw his support behind Governor Adlai Stevenson of Illinois. Stevenson won the Democratic nomination, but lost the election to General Dwight Eisenhower. In 1956, Stevenson lost his second presidential bid, again to Eisenhower.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: The Bush administration believes its strong suit in the campaign is the president's record on fighting terrorism. But the recent September 11 commission public hearings, both what was said by Richard Clarke and what hasn't been said by Condoleezza Rice, who won't agree to testify publicly, are bound to be having an impact.

Well, with me now to share their insight into this growing problem for the Bush administration is Steve Hayes with The Weekly Standard and Peter Beinart with The New Republic.

Gentlemen, thanks for joining us.

STEPHEN HAYES, WEEKLY STANDARD: Good to be her.

PETER BEINART, NEW REPUBLIC: Nice to be here.

WALLACE: Steve, want to begin with you.

End of a week. How politically damaging has this all been for the Bush administration?

HAYES: Oh, well, I would say it hasn't been helpful, but it wasn't nearly as damaging as it could have been. I mean, Richard Clarke being one of the top counterterrorism officials, you know, in administrations going back, coming out and making the kinds of claims that he made was not going to be helpful in -- you know, in any set of circumstances.

But I think the fact that he damaged his own credibility with his own statements, his own previous statements, which have come to light, really helps the Bush administration. I mean, they haven't had to resort to the kinds of character assassination. They can just basically say, Well, this is what he said two years ago, this is what he's saying now. Those two don't match. So I don't think it's been as bad as it could have been.

WALLACE: Peter, I bet you don't exactly agree.

BEINART: I don't agree, and I think to be fair, to say they were not engaged in character assassination is not true. Most of what they did was attack his motives, rather than -- and the statement that he had said different things before, I think he responded to quite well, which was to say, I was working for the Bush administration. I was not at liberty to say everything I thought.

I think they might have done better to take the high road. Let's remember, one of the great strengths of 9/11 for this president was the sense that in the -- after 9/11 he was a uniter. And that was -- the association of 9/11 with him being a uniter was valuable. Now you see it associated with all of this partisan sniping. I think that could be a problem.

WALLACE: I want to play for our viewers -- I happened to be in the room at the hearings -- I know you both were covering them as well. And one of the more dramatic moments was when Richard Clarke started to testify and he opened by publicly apologizing to the families who lost loved ones on September 11.

Let's listen to that for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARKE: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you, failed you. And I failed you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Steve, does this hurt the White House in any way, because you had some family members saying Richard Clarke has publicly apologized, but they haven't heard that from President Bush or any of the other Bush administration officials.

HAYES: Right. You know, I don't think it does.

I mean, this is -- we wrote an editorial about it this week, in which we said, it's no more appropriate for the Bush White House to apologize for September 11, which we must remember was an act of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden -- than it would have been for President Roosevelt to apologize for Pearl Harbor. I mean, this is -- you know, clearly there were mistakes made, clearly there were intelligence failures and Richard Clarke has articulated that time and time again. But to apologize to the families, I just I think it's political theater.

WALLACE: And Peter, isn't it a difficulty, though, for the Democrats to use this issue in any way, because we were discussing earlier in the show, a Newsweek poll saying that some 65 percent of Americans polled think the Clinton administration didn't take the threat of terrorism seriously enough.

BEINART: No, there's no question about that, and I think Democrats should acknowledge that, sand say -- and say, Look, very few people in the 1990s did take it seriously enough.

But the Clinton administration is not up for re-election. And the basis of the Clinton administration's residual popularity or the Democrats' popularity is not as related to terrorism. It's related to domestic economic issues.

So it is a bigger issue for the Bush administration because terrorism is their key selling point.

WALLACE: Let's focus on Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser. You know, she is going to go on "60 minutes" tonight. You have a Republican member of the commission who is saying it's a political blunder that the White House doesn't allow her to testify publicly.

Putting on your strategist cap, are you seeing any political damage, even though they're exerting executive privilege -- but political damage because she's not going to go publicly before the commission?

HAYES: Yes. You know, I do. And I understand their case on principle on the separation-of-powers argument that they've articulated.

I do think it's a mistake not to have her testify. She has been on, you know, TV shows all week. She's been talking about this openly for a long time. And commission members I have spoken to have said she has done a wonderful job behind the scenes. She has explained things. She's been straightforward. She doesn't have anything to hide.

So I don't understand why they don't put her out. I mean, if she's going to do -- I mean, I had to use a John Kerry soundbyte -- if she's going to do "60 Minutes" tonight, she should be able to give the commission an hour.

WALLACE: You're picking up from any sources within the White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign that there is some real thought about having her ...

HAYES: No, I think they're sort of digging in, and I don't understand it. I mean, they have done it with the commission from the beginning. The commission -- you know, they didn't want the commission to exist, then they didn't want the president to testify, then they were talking about how long he was going to testify. Then they caved on the time he was going to testify. I just think they should just have her testify and settle the questions.

WALLACE: Peter, final word from you. I just want to get a final word from you.

John Kerry saying something sort of interesting on Friday, where he said that, you know, if the Republicans think Clark has lied, well then they should kind of do an investigation and try him for perjury.

Did you think that was smart politically?

BEINART: No, I don't think that made a lot of sense.

But I do think there is a real concern about what Condi Rice would say under oath. What she said has been contradicted by Rice and by Richard Armitage in this own administration. Putting her under oath is a serious matter.

WALLACE: OK. Peter Beinart. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there -- The New Republic. Steve Hayes -- Hayes, from the Weekly Standard.

Thank you both for joining us. We'll see you again soon.

Well, coming up next, poking fun, something lighter at the political landscape. Straight ahead, our weekly review of the late- night laughs.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And time for a favorite here: This week's edition of late-night laughs.

As David Letterman shows, we haven't heard the last from John Kerry's only remaining Democratic rival, Dennis Kucinich.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, THE LATE SHOW: Here we go. Top ten ways he can still be the next president of the United States.

No. 10.

REP. DENNNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Keep doing what I'm doing. I'm winning, right?

LETTERMAN: Yes.

CLARKE: I'm sure I'll be criticized for lots of things. I'm sure they will launch their dogs on me.

JON STEWART, HOST, THE DAILY SHOW: Mr. Clarke? Consider those dogs launched.

(MUSIC, BAHA MEN, "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?") LETTERMAN: No. 4.

KUCINICH: Just wait until I unleash my new campaign slogan, Kucizzle in the hizzle.

CLARKE: I made the case I was asked to make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying you were asked to make an untrue case to the press and the public and that you went ahead and did it?

STEWART: Oh, snap! Game, set, match. Checkmate. You sunk my battleship. Yahtzee!

LETTERMAN: And the No. 1 way Dennis Kucinich can still be the next president of the United States:

KUCINICH: I'm praying for a sex scandal.

LETTERMAN: There you go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Tough to follow that.

Well, thank you for joining us on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

Tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, a tale of political intrigue. John Kerry's FBI files are missing. Gerald Nicosia, from whose house those files were stolen, joins us on CNN.

And in just a little bit, Richard Clarke is Judy Woodruff's guest on "LATE EDITION." Be sure to watch that at 12 noon Eastern.

Have a terrific Sunday. Thanks again for joining us.

"CNN LIVE SUNDAY" continues right now from CNN Center in Atlanta.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired March 28, 2004 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway at CNN Center. The headlines at this hour.
Negotiations between the government of Pakistan and tribal groups in the region near the Afghanistan border have led to the release of 11 Pakistani fighters. In return, government forces have agreed to pull back from a tribal town, although they will remain in that area.

Now, the region is the scene of intense fighting between Pakistani forces and what are believed to be Al Qaeda fighters.

And members of the Arab League called off a summit meeting set to start Sunday citing, quote, "difference in views." The meeting was to have been held in Tunisia. One official says the disagreements were over core issues of democracy and human rights.

Meanwhile, Egypt has offered to host a rescheduled conference.

And the new leader of Hamas has called President Bush a, quote, "enemy of God, an enemy of Islam and an enemy of Muslims." Abdel Aziz Rantissi delivered the speech in a memorial speech for Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, who was killed by an Israeli helicopter attack on Monday.

I'm Catherine Callaway. INSIDE POLITICS is next.

KELLY WALLACE, HOST: INSIDE POLITICS today, going after the Bush administration on national security. The White House fights back.

Should the Democrats pick their vice presidential candidate now or later? We weigh the case for an early decision.

And he doesn't talk boxers or briefs, but John Kerry makes an appearance on MTV. That's straight ahead.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, this is INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

WALLACE: I'm Kelly Wallace. Politics doesn't take weekends off, and neither do we. Thanks for joining us. It is Sunday, March 28.

Well, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY begins with the latest on the Richard Clarke controversy and the White House counter attack.

Vice President Dick Cheney tells "TIME" magazine that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is getting, quote, "a bum wrap."

Rice is featured on "TIME's" cover with this headline: "Feeling the Heat." It's a reference to her refusal to testify in public before the September 11 commission and to Clarke's charges the White House mishandled the war on terrorism.

Clarke, the former White House terrorism adviser, isn't backing away from his criticism, even as some Republicans are calling into question his credibility. Clarke appeared this morning on NBC's "Meet the Press."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTER TERRORISM ADVISER: Because I have no obligation anymore to spin. When you're in the White House you spin. People have been doing a lot of that against me this week.

You know, they're engaged in a campaign, people on the taxpayers' rolls, dozens of people on the taxpayers' rolls, are engaged in the campaign to destroy me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And we will hear more from Richard Clarke today when he appears as Judy woodruff's special guest on "LATE EDITION." That starts at 12 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Well, Condoleezza Rice makes her case on the September 11 dispute in an appearance tonight on CBS's "60 Minutes." She faces increasing bipartisan pressure to testify publicly before the commission. That is something she refuses to do, citing executive privilege.

And all this may be taking a toll on the president's approval rating.

White House correspondent Dana Bash reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House insists National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice refuses to publicly testify before the 9/11 commission as a matter of executive privilege, but a Republican member of the commission says by standing on legal principles they're shooting themselves in the foot politically.

JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: I think the White House is making a political blunder, an important miscalculation of the political impact of this. Condoleezza Rice should testify before our commission.

BASH: Democrats aren't letting it go.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do "60 Minutes" on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath.

BASH: The stepped up pressure for Rice to testify, even from within GOP ranks, comes as the White House continues to blanket the airwaves to try to stop political hemorrhaging over Richard Clarke's charge the president wasn't aggressive enough in confronting terror threats leading up to 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steady leadership in times of change.

BASH: Mr. Bush is building his reelection campaign around his stewardship against terrorism. It has been, aides say, his best political asset.

But a new poll suggests approval of how the president handles terrorism has dropped eight points since last month, from 65 percent to 57 percent.

Republicans say the counter offensive to discredit Clarke as someone who's changed his story must continue.

GLENN BOLGER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: There's going to be a very small group of voters in the middle who have to kind of weigh both sides and make up their mind on who they trust: Richard Clarke before he wrote his book or Richard Clarke after he wrote his book.

BASH: Democrats called it character assassination and predict it will further hurt, not help, the president.

MICHAEL FELDMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The ferocity of the attacks against Dick Clarke this week could backfire against the Bush administration, because I think Americans deserve and expect real answers to the underlying charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, as for Senator Kerry's new pressure on Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly before the commission, a Bush campaign spokeswoman said he is simply trying to politicize these hearings, even saying that he's unfairly calling into question Dr. Rice's integrity. One aide saying that this is the political overreach of the century -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Dana, you know Washington so well. One thing that many people think is the more you talk about an issue, the more it is out there in the headlines.

Is the White House hoping that after Dr. Rice's appearance tonight on "60 minutes" that's sort of the end of the television counter offensive?

BASH: Well, it's really unclear at this point. You're right, Kelly, it's sort of the classic question is whether -- how far should you go in responding because it certainly does run the risk of keeping the story alive.

But Republicans outside the administration and inside really say that at this point Clarke's accusations have gotten so much publicity, first of all, last Sunday on "65 minutes" 15 million viewers. And then, of course, blanket coverage all week. They felt that they had absolutely no choice to respond. Also, of course, you know, as I mentioned earlier it is the whole question of the subject you're talking about. It is the fight against terrorism and the whole question of that from somebody who worked within the administration, something that they really feel they cannot let go unanswered at all, Kelly.

WALLACE: Well Dana, we'll certainly be watching your reporting. Dana Bash, White House correspondent, thank you for joining us from Crawford, Texas.

Well, in the Kerry campaign, the issue of same sex marriages surfaced during the taping of a television special. The senator's interview with MTV's Gideon Yago is set to air Tuesday night.

One viewer asked the Senator why he doesn't support gay marriages over civil union. He says it is about tradition but he is also saying he's giving gay couples equal rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS: You think somebody is born gay or they choose to be gay?

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I think it's entirely who you are from birth, personally. I don't think -- I mean, some people might choose, but I think that it's who you are. It's in your system. It's in your genes. It's just the balance.

And I think that people have a right in America to be who they are, who they are born as. And we're all God's children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And the Democratic candidate is attending church this morning in St. Louis. He heads to California later in the day, where he will spend several days fund-raising. And MTV news correspondent Gideon Yago joins us later in the show.

Now let's tear into the top headlines that are shaping the campaign debate. Here to discuss the issues, Bush-Cheney national spokesman Terry Holt and for the Kerry campaign communications director Stephanie Cutter.

Thank you both for joining us.

TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY NATIONAL SPOKESMAN: It's great to be back.

WALLACE: Happy to have you. Terry, let me first go to you.

I want the viewers to see a poll that Dana Bash used in her report. A "Newsweek" poll showing when people are asked their approval of how President Bush is handling the war on terrorism.

You see it is down from 65 percent in February, down to 57 percent now. That's an eight percentage drop. It has to be some concern to you all.

HOLT: Well, I'll tell you. The polls are going to go back and forth. Ultimately, the president still has very strong numbers when it comes to being a strong and principled leader.

This last week -- The American people should be concerned about this 9/11 commission being hijacked by a political opportunist like Dick Clarke. I find it fascinating that, as a public official he said he was spinning in the White House.

And that stands in stark contrast to Condi Rice, this disciplined, informed person, determined leader who went from changing the entire national security bureaucracy from swatting at flies to targeting Al Qaeda.

That's what we learned this week. But the noise of Dick Clarke and his personal agenda got in the way of that.

WALLACE: But you heard a Republican member of that September 11 commission saying it's, quote, "a political blunder" for Dr. Rice not testify publicly.

HOLT: But the 9/11 commission -- the 9/11 commission is about finding out the facts, how we got to 9/11 and how we responded to it.

The idea that politics -- you know, national security adviser is an adviser to the president with a very specific role in the White House. And she's made herself available, widely available, to all questions from all reporters from all facets of this debate.

And she has the veracity of the arguments on her side, in stark contrast to the contradictions and the spin of Dick Clarke.

WALLACE: Stephanie, the question from the Republicans is that Senator Kerry is trying to politicize this. Politicize something like September 11 by wading into the controversy yesterday.

STEPHANIE CUTTER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Well, you know, it's interesting, Kelly, that Terry brings up spinning. Spinning is exactly what this administration has been doing for the past week.

Instead of getting to the truth, getting to the facts, Condoleezza Rice has been on over a dozen programs this week, spinning her story. And if she can spend the time going to "60 Minutes," going to network news, why can't she go under oath before the 9/11 commission?

They're precedent for it. If they are, indeed, determined to get to the truth, to get to the facts, they should go before the commission.

WALLACE: Aren't there some risks, though, for Democrats in any way to use and use this issue? Because in that same "Newsweek" poll, some 65 percent of those polled said they believe the Clinton administration did not take terrorism seriously enough. CUTTER: This is not about casting blame. This is not about who did what. This is about getting to the facts so that we can make sure that we don't have another terrorist attack.

You know, John Kerry was not stepping into politics yesterday. He was urging Condoleezza Rice to take herself out of politics and go under oath before the 9/11 commission. The families want to hear it. The 9/11 commission wants to hear it. I think the American public wants to hear it.

HOLT: It should be noted that Condoleezza Rice has already been before the commission and testified behind closed doors. She said late last week that she was willing to do so again and make herself available as long as it was required to answer all the questions the 9/11 commission...

CUTTER: Well, it is required and it is required in public under oath. I don't understand what they're hiding from. There is precedent for national security advisers to go before Congress.

WALLACE: And you can't -- Of course, I don't want you to sit here, speaking for the White House, per se. But you're a campaign strategist. Politically, is it causing you any problems to not have Dr. Rice publicly go before the commission?

HOLT: Well, the American people get this story. In the same poll, a huge number of people, I think more than 50 percent, said that Dick Clarke's motives were political. They obviously were. He's trying to sell a book.

So you can -- you can spin this any way you want. But ultimately, people wanted to hear the facts out of the 9/11 commission. They were hearing it, except for that noise. And you know, they filtered that noise out from Dick Clarke this week.

CUTTER: If this is not about politics and if this is getting to the facts and if Richard Clarke is, indeed, playing politics, why did this administration launch the most ferocious attack and smear campaign against him?

On one hand, you have Condi Rice putting him at the center of the tragedy on 9/11.

HOLT: We just put his own words out there, Stephanie. Just showed what he said.

CUTTER: What we want your own words. We want your own words. We want to get to the bottom of this.

WALLACE: Let me get in. Senate Republican leader, Majority Leader Bill Frist on the Senate floor Friday, raising many questions about Richard Clarke's credibility and calling for a declassification of his testimony before a House-Senate intelligence panel.

My question to you, did the campaign or the White House have any heads up about what the senator was going to do, and do you support it?

HOLT: In fact, I was watching the senator's speech as it was going on. The senator raises serious questions. If you say one thing here and another thing there, and the ultimate goal of the commission is to get the straight answers, we should reconcile Dick Clarke's contradictions.

WALLACE: All right. We'll pick up here. We'll take it to the economy, politics, much more. Sit tight right there. We have a lot to talk about, including a new ad.

And later, rolling out the big rig to attract the MTV crowd. Both parties are going the extra mile to court younger voters.

And coming up, our very own Bill Schneider will join us from the Bay State to talk about the hometown of the other JFK from Massachusetts.

This is INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And we've been talking about the stories that are shaping the presidential race, continuing that discussion now with Bush-Cheney national spokesman Terry Holt and Kerry campaign communications director Stephanie Cutter.

Let's focus on the economy, shall we? First, let's take a listen to a new ad released by the Bush-Cheney reelection team targeting John Kerry. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got tax cuts in place that will help the economy grow. We've also got plans to help people get the skills necessary to fill the new jobs of the 21st Century. I'm optimistic about America because I believe in the people of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And we're giggling because that ad the president is talking about himself. It's a great spot, exactly.

But Stephanie, the ad that we wanted to show...

CUTTER: Right.

WALLACE: ... Bush-Cheney team talking about John Kerry, saying he voted in the past to raise taxes on Social Security benefits, on gasoline, saying that, in essence, to pay for all his spending proposals he'll have to raise taxes on the American people.

Is this a problem for you? That ad is appearing in many states across the country. CUTTER: No. I think that the votes that they are talking about are votes that have to do with the 1993 economic plan that Bill Clinton put in place and John Kerry fought for on the Senate floor.

That economic plan was responsible for 23 million jobs. What is it that this administration has against jobs?

HOLT: The 1993 bill increased taxes on seniors. They tried to impose a 50-cent per gallon tax on gasoline. If you think gas prices are expensive out there today, add 50 cents and that would be the Kerry economy. That would kill the economy.

CUTTER: Can we just get off the gas tax for one second?

HOLT: And you know, he was in Detroit the other day. It was in Detroit the other day, giving a speech about gimmicks that he wants to raise -- increase taxes on small business while he gives tax cuts for corporations.

WALLACE: Let me -- I want to say that, because you talked about a five percent cut in a corporate tax rate, and quoting the Senator there, he says, quote, "Some may be surprised to hear a Democrat call for lower corporate tax rates."

This has to be a real good...

HOLT: The Benedict Arnolds are going to get the first tax relief of the Kerry administration. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

WALLACE: But isn't it a bigger problem to paint him as a taxer and spender if he's coming out to sort of say, "Hey, I'm a moderate pro-business guy. I'm cutting taxes."

HOLT: That's a flip-flop, because in May of last year he voted against the very same proposal that he put forth in his speech the other day.

WALLACE: He did vote against...

CUTTER: He did. You're right he did, because he believes any type of tax incentive has to be part of an overall growth package. What he introduced on Friday was a pro-growth, pro-jobs package.

You know, it's interesting to hear Terry attack this package, because it is widely recognized by the nation's leading labor economists as something that really will spur job growth.

We know what we're doing. We were here in the '90s; we produced 23 million jobs. But all they have is excuses. Where is the president's plan to create jobs? Tax cuts for the rich is not going to create jobs.

WALLACE: Very quickly. We're running out of time. Two news items: Karen Hughes, one of the president's top advisers, "The New York Times" saying she is coming back and will be back in a full-time capacity. What is this about?

HOLT: Well, she moved back to Texas and she's written a book, but she's always been deeply involved with our effort. You know, we trust and respect her judgment. And anybody who doesn't know she hasn't been around hasn't been paying much attention, because she's always with us.

WALLACE: And one question for you. The senator's surgery coming up this week on Wednesday, serious? A voter said does he have a Dick Cheney problem on the stomach yesterday?

CUTTER: No. The senator is very athletic and very active. And you know, we have all seen him bike riding and skiing and playing football.

He has a -- just a slight tear in a tendon that he has to get fixed now. Otherwise, it will grow into a more serious problem. So he's going to take a day to get it done.

WALLACE: And five seconds, you've heard a story about the FBI files and all through his files relating to Vietnam Veterans Against the War, John Kerry, they've been stolen. Any comments that you know about that?

CUTTER: He was very surprised to hear of this. I mean, this is a man who fought for his country and came back and fought against a war that he thought was wrong. And to hear that the FBI was following him was, you know, shocking, surprising and really disturbing.

WALLACE: OK. We've got to leave it there. Stephanie Cutter with the Kerry campaign; Terry Holt, Bush-Cheney reelection team. We hope you'll make this a regular stop, on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Thanks so much.

Well, we are now checking the headlines in the Sunday edition of our "Campaign News Daily."

Chasing NASCAR votes. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist heads to the Bristol Motor Speedway in Tennessee for a stock car race this afternoon where he will gather with thousands of NASCAR families.

And Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo hits the airwaves this Wednesday on the new liberal radio network, Air America. Shows like "The O'Franken Factor" will be heard in New York, Chicago, L.A. and San Francisco.

And not to be outdone a former Bush administration official is getting her message out as well. We've just been talking about her.

Karen Hughes, former adviser and close friend of President Bush, releases her book this week. It is called "Ten Minutes from Normal." The title is taken, she says, from a train conductor's announcement she heard while on the campaign trail.

And it seems that Ralph Nader has found an unexpected source of campaign contributions for his presidential run. Some ardent Republicans are sending him cash.

The "Dallas Morning News" newspaper did an analysis of federal campaign contribution records. They show that nearly 10 percent of Nader contributions are coming from people in the past have strongly supported Republican candidates.

Several of those donors contacted by the paper said they don't expect him to win and that they're giving to President Bush, as well.

Well later, a new addition to the V.P. list. You won't believe whose name is being mentioned now.

Plus, same sex marriages can begin in Massachusetts just months before the Democratic convention. Will this reinforce the state's, quote, "liberal image"? The story behind the story from our political analyst, Bill Schneider.

And...

DAVID LETTERMAN, "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN" HOST: Here we go top ten ways Dennis Kucinich can still be the next president of the United States.

No. 10...

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... keep doing what I'm doing. I'm winning, right?

LETTERMAN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: We catch up with the late night comics on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Our own Bill Schneider joins us from Boston today with the latest on another JFK's run for the White House.

Good morning, Bill, great to see you.

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Kelly.

You know, in four months the Democrats will be coming here to Boston to nominate a son of Massachusetts for president. Question, is this a good place for Democrats to be doing that?

Let's look at the story behind the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Could this be a latter day warning from Paul Revere: the Democrats are coming, the Democrats are coming!

Boston is the famously liberal capitol of a famously liberal state, a state whose highest court has ruled that same sex couples must be allowed to marry, a position John Kerry doesn't happen to agree with.

KERRY: I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

SCHNEIDER: Though he disagrees with President Bush on the need for a federal constitutional amendment to ban it.

KERRY: For 200 years we have left marriage up to the states.

SCHNEIDER: In Massachusetts, that means same sex marriages can begin in May, just in time for the Democratic convention, which will have a tribute to Senator Edward Kennedy on the first night. Kennedy, the lion king of liberals.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: War in Iraq was a war of choice, not a war of necessity.

SCHNEIDER: Whoops, Kerry voted to authorize that war.

Kerry hopes the convention will evoke the image of another Kennedy, not the one who was famously liberal, the one who is famously tough.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not intend to be lectured on intervention by those who character was stamped for all times on the bloody streets of Budapest.

SCHNEIDER: That's how Kerry wants to be seen.

KERRY: And if George Bush wants to make national security the centerpiece of this campaign, we have three words for him that we know he understands, bring it on!

SCHNEIDER: Republicans have other plans.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people will have a clear choice in the election of 2004, at least as clear as any since the election of 1984.

SCHNEIDER: In 1984 the Democrats met in San Francisco, and Republicans wouldn't let voters forget it.

JEANE KIRKPATRICK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: The American people, proud of our country, proud of our freedom, proud of ourselves, will reject the San Francisco Democrat and send Ronald Reagan back to the White House.

SCHNEIDER: You may be hearing the same speech at this year's Republican convention about Boston Democrats and George Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: You may also be hearing Democrats here at the Boston convention chanting "JFK, JFK!" For John Forbes Kerry, of course -- Kelly. WALLACE: Well, Bill, putting on your political strategist cap, with the tribute to Senator Ted Kennedy and with the possibility that you'll have same sex marriages actually taking place during the convention, is it possible for John Kerry to shed the sort of Massachusetts liberal label and portray a tough Democrat at this convention?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I think he can certainly stand up before that convention, make known his views on the issue of same sex marriage.

And right now, this coming week, the Massachusetts constitutional convention will be meeting to consider a constitutional amendment that would override the court and carry out exactly what he wants. That is, that would reserve marriage for a man and woman. In which case he'll be fine.

WALLACE: Well, he'll be watching that closely. Bill Schneider, enjoy Boston.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

WALLACE: We'll see you back here in Washington.

Well, up ahead another deadly blast in Iraq overnight. We will check the stories making headlines this hour.

Also, no word yet from the Kerry campaign on its V.P. search, but a few names are being tossed around. We'll find out in our "Morning Grind."

And we'll examine the latest effort to get the MTV generation to the polls. That is all ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway in Atlanta. We have the latest developments for you.

British officials in Iraq say that two civilians have been killed in the northern city of Mosul. One was British, but details of the incident were not released. And 30 miles north of Baghdad, a roadside bomb hit two U.S. Humvees, leaving at least three U.S. soldiers wounded.

And in Israel, the chief prosecutor is recommending the indictment of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. At issue: his alleged role in a bribery scandal in the 1990s, when Mr. Sharon was foreign minister. An Israeli businessman has already been charged in that case. And Israel's attorney general must approve before any indictment a decision which is at least a month away.

National elections are postponed in Afghanistan. President Hamid Karzai says that they will be delayed three months, from June to September. He says too few voters are registered yet among Afghanistan's population of 11 million. The country plans both parliamentary and presidential elections. Afghanistan is trying to rebuild after a quarter century of war.

I'm Catherine Callaway in Atlanta. INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY continues.

WALLACE: And welcome back.

Here with our Sunday cup of "The Morning Grind," our very own CNN political editor, John Mercurio.

Good morning, John.

JOHN MERCURIO, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Good morning, Kelly. Good to see you.

WALLACE: Great to see you.

Well, of course, the Kerry campaign doesn't want to talk at all about the search for a vice president, but everybody likes talking about. What's the latest?

MERCURIO: It's America's favorite parlor game.

WALLACE: Absolutely.

MERCURIO: We know that three of four -- three of four Democrats or Democratic insider who presumably have John Kerry's ear at this point told The National Journal last week that they want Kerry to make a decision quickly, and it's a very simple reason: they think that it can help him with fund raising. I mean, he needs -- it's easier to make money with two people than with one, and they want a surrogate to be able to get out there as soon as possible to help him raise money.

The National Journal has been polling for the past 19 weeks on Democratic prospects. The same five people who led earlier this month still lead. You have John Edwards, Dick Gephardt, current New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson -- sorry I couldn't read that name -- Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack and Florida Senator Bob Graham. Those are sort of like the top dive candidates. And these are according to Democratic insiders.

WALLACE: Any way to tell who's up, who's down, who scores points?

I will just tell you one funny thing; some people noticed that John Edwards got in between President Clinton and John Kerry at the unity dinner the other night...

MERCURIO: Oh, absolutely.

WALLACE: ...and it sounded like the Kerry team wasn't so happy about that.

MERCURIO: Well, that's exactly a -- that's a very good point.

I mean, Kerry was really upset with the way things were handled in 2000. He didn't like the very public way that Gore -- that Al Gore handled his search process. So what Kerry really sort of dislikes now, I think, is the Democrats who are sort of self-promoting, who are out there sort of pushing their own name. You hear people's names like New Mexico Governor Richardson and Bob Graham, whose names were up there.

I think that the more you kind of self-promote right now, the less likely you are to be chosen. But again, it's so far off nobody's -- nobody with -- nobody who knows anything is saying anything, so....

WALLACE: So memo to anyone watching: be quiet to keep your name...

MERCURIO: One name that people are talking about this week is Bob Kerrey, the former senator from Nebraska who is serving on the September 11 Commission, who was very prominent this week, a very partisan defender of the -- a very -- he spoke like a good Democrat, I guess, would.

So I think a lot of people are talking about him as a possible candidate. A Kerry-Kerrey ticket be hard to swallow for some people. But I guess...

WALLACE: Hard to say, right? Kerry-Kerrey.

MERCURIO: Hard to say, yes.

WALLACE: What -- speaking of the September 11 Commission, and you know, of course, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist on the floor Friday, calling for declassifying Richard Clarke's testimony before the House and Senate intelligence panels.

What are you sensing from your source about Democrats, how they're responding?

MERCURIO: Democrats were a little surprised by Frist's speech. I mean, a lot of people weren't -- didn't see it coming at all. I mean, you had Terry Holt on earlier who said he sort of watched it happen, as it happened.

So they were caught a little flatfooted, but I talked to some democrats this weekend who said they're going to come out this week strong. You're going to Tom Daschle., the minority leader; you're going to see Harry Reid, his assistant, and all sorts of other Democrats on the Intelligence Committee come out and demand that if the White House declassifies those documents that they also demand that Condi Rice testify under oath in public before the commission.

The other thing I'm hearing you're going to see that's sort of interesting is former national security advisers, both Democrat and Republican, coming out and requesting that Condi Rice testify. It will be interesting -- I don't have the actual names of any Republicans. But remember that Brent Scowcroft early last year was sort of an early critic of going to war so quickly against Iraq, so...

WALLACE: Are your sources -- I heard from a couple of people -- these are Democrats, but they thought that ultimately the pressure is just going to be too much, that Dr. Rice is eventually going to have to testify publicly under oath.

MERCURIO: That's exactly what I'm hearing.

I mean, she's going to go on "60 Minutes" tonight. I mean, as you were talking to people earlier today. I don't think this puts -- I think you talked to Dana Bash about this. I don't think it's going to put the issue to rest. I think it's just going to sort of revive the news for next week.

WALLACE: OK. John Mercurio, CNN's political editor, great to see you.

MERCURIO: Great to see you, too.

WALLACE: Thanks.

And for the best and funniest and sometimes sarcastic daily briefing on politics, don't miss John's "Morning Grind." Got to www.cnn.com/grind for all the latest political news.

Well, up next, MTV and Rock the Vote team up. Their goal: mobilizing 20 million voters between 18 and 30 to get to the polls this November. We'll talk to MTV's Gideon Yago about his one-on-one interview with Senator John Kerry and the senator's memory of his own rock n' roll band.

That's next on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Every presidential election cycle, candidates do their best to capture young voters. And without a doubt, one of the places that professional politicians turn to for exposure is MTV.

Coming up this Tuesday is a new MTV News special. It's called "Choose or Lose: 20 Million Questions for John Kerry."

And with me now from New York is Gideon Yago. He is an MTV News correspondent.

And here in Washington is Hans Reimer. He is the political director of Rock the Vote.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today.

GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Thanks a lot, Kelly.

WALLACE: Gideon, let me begin with you.

What an exclusive for you. Very exciting, an interview with John Kerry. Set the stage for us. What was it like and how much access did you get to the Democratic candidate?

YAGO: Well, this is actually the fourth time that we've had a chance to go face to face with John Kerry. But it was the first time that we did a really protracted sit-down interview where we took questions from the MTV audience and brought them to the man himself. They were straight from kids, undecided voters and I thought he did a very good job.

WALLACE: Let's show, Gideon, our viewers one question -- I believe one of the people that you had ask him a question was asking him about kind of John Kennedy inspired John Kerry, but then John Kerry was asked who really inspires young voters right now.

Let's listen to what Senator Kerry said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: That's a good question.

You know, it's just a different time right now. And as I talk to my daughters, who are, you know, recent graduates of college and out there, they tell me that a lot of young people just don't have that kind of feeling right now, certainly not about politics. And I regret that. That's one of the things that I would like to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: So Hans, let me bring you in. Are young voters not inspired right now?

HANS REIMER, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, ROCK THE VOTE: I would actually disagree. I think they are engaged in this election cycle, and that the 9/11 -- the events of 9/11 have created a different atmosphere for young people today.

And we're seeing anecdotally -- we had 12,000 people filled out voter registration forms on our Web site last week. We're seeing a lot of interest peaking. People are paying more attention.

And sure, candidates will have to do a better job inspiring them and capturing their imagination. But we're looking towards a big increase in turnout for November.

WALLACE: Gideon, from the interview with Senator Kerry and the questions from young voters, what are the key issues that young voters care about right now?

YAGO: It's jobs, it's paying for college and it's foreign policy, namely the fact that it's young people fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

WALLACE: So it's a lot of the same issues, then, Gideon, that adults, older voters -- we don't like to call ourselves old -- but, older voters.

YAGO: To a certain extent, though, they approach from a different angle. It's young people that are just really breaking into the job market. So when you talk about there not being a lot of jobs created, it's young people who really feel that most extremely.

Also, when it comes to paying for college, and college education, it's young people who take out massive loans and go into massive debt to basically get a college degree so that they can get a job.

And, like I said, it's young people that are fighting these wars.

So their experience when it comes to the issues is a little different from the rest of the population at large.

WALLACE: Very interesting, though, to watch the courting of the young voters. We saw what the Republicans call Reggie, the registration rig, sitting in Times Square.

You had Ed Gillespie, the Republican...

YAGO: On Total Request Live.

WALLACE: Yes! National committee chairman speaking on MTV.

Hans, give me a sense -- how active are both parties right now compared to years past, in terms of getting the young vote?

REIMER: I think it's way up, and it's exciting to see. The fact that the Republican Party would target TRL to bring their truck through; they have X-Box on the truck. They have a whole suite of idea about how to reach this population. John Kerry the same day doing an MTV interview.

I think it's really exciting to see that they're taking young voters seriously. And that is going to have a result.

WALLACE: One interesting thing we saw -- and I want our viewers to see this. A poll -- a Newsweek poll asking young people 18- to 29-year-olds who they support. And if you take a look at it, 38 percent for President Bush, 47 percent for John Kerry but Ralph Nader getting 12 percent. And you have heard some political analysts expressing some concern that Ralph Nader could attract young voters away from the other candidates.

Gideon, what did you pick up from your interviewing about the Nader factor?

YAGO: We didn't really pick up much. I mean, I am waiting to see if he gets actually on the national ticket before I start prognosticating on that.

WALLACE: And Gideon, I guess we have to ask you, when are you going to get President Bush to appear on an MTV News "Choose or Lose" special?

YAGO: We're hoping. He's done it in the past. We're really hoping that the Republicans and the White House, just as the Democrats have already started to do, realize that the young voter is the swing voter, and that they're up for grabs and that getting 20 million of them to the polls this election year could swing this election one way or another.

WALLACE: Hans, last word from you. Young voters, are they swing voters? REIMER: Oh, absolutely. Clinton won them by 20 percent. Bush cut that margin to almost nothing. They go back and forth, and I think they're both going after them right now.

They're surge voters and they're swing voters, and however they come down on Election Day is really going to make a difference.

WALLACE: Well, great work you both are doing.

Hans Reimer, political director for Rock the Vote.

Gideon Yago, MTV news correspondent.

Again, the plug, MTV News special, Tuesday night, 10:30 p.m., be sure to catch that.

Well, coming up now, in the September 11 blame game, who was up and who was down? Or does everybody lose? Stay tuned for our reporter roundtable. That is coming up just ahead on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): And now a campaign flashback, the election of 1952. On March 29, President Harry Truman announced he would not seek re-election and threw his support behind Governor Adlai Stevenson of Illinois. Stevenson won the Democratic nomination, but lost the election to General Dwight Eisenhower. In 1956, Stevenson lost his second presidential bid, again to Eisenhower.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: The Bush administration believes its strong suit in the campaign is the president's record on fighting terrorism. But the recent September 11 commission public hearings, both what was said by Richard Clarke and what hasn't been said by Condoleezza Rice, who won't agree to testify publicly, are bound to be having an impact.

Well, with me now to share their insight into this growing problem for the Bush administration is Steve Hayes with The Weekly Standard and Peter Beinart with The New Republic.

Gentlemen, thanks for joining us.

STEPHEN HAYES, WEEKLY STANDARD: Good to be her.

PETER BEINART, NEW REPUBLIC: Nice to be here.

WALLACE: Steve, want to begin with you.

End of a week. How politically damaging has this all been for the Bush administration?

HAYES: Oh, well, I would say it hasn't been helpful, but it wasn't nearly as damaging as it could have been. I mean, Richard Clarke being one of the top counterterrorism officials, you know, in administrations going back, coming out and making the kinds of claims that he made was not going to be helpful in -- you know, in any set of circumstances.

But I think the fact that he damaged his own credibility with his own statements, his own previous statements, which have come to light, really helps the Bush administration. I mean, they haven't had to resort to the kinds of character assassination. They can just basically say, Well, this is what he said two years ago, this is what he's saying now. Those two don't match. So I don't think it's been as bad as it could have been.

WALLACE: Peter, I bet you don't exactly agree.

BEINART: I don't agree, and I think to be fair, to say they were not engaged in character assassination is not true. Most of what they did was attack his motives, rather than -- and the statement that he had said different things before, I think he responded to quite well, which was to say, I was working for the Bush administration. I was not at liberty to say everything I thought.

I think they might have done better to take the high road. Let's remember, one of the great strengths of 9/11 for this president was the sense that in the -- after 9/11 he was a uniter. And that was -- the association of 9/11 with him being a uniter was valuable. Now you see it associated with all of this partisan sniping. I think that could be a problem.

WALLACE: I want to play for our viewers -- I happened to be in the room at the hearings -- I know you both were covering them as well. And one of the more dramatic moments was when Richard Clarke started to testify and he opened by publicly apologizing to the families who lost loved ones on September 11.

Let's listen to that for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARKE: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you, failed you. And I failed you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Steve, does this hurt the White House in any way, because you had some family members saying Richard Clarke has publicly apologized, but they haven't heard that from President Bush or any of the other Bush administration officials.

HAYES: Right. You know, I don't think it does.

I mean, this is -- we wrote an editorial about it this week, in which we said, it's no more appropriate for the Bush White House to apologize for September 11, which we must remember was an act of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden -- than it would have been for President Roosevelt to apologize for Pearl Harbor. I mean, this is -- you know, clearly there were mistakes made, clearly there were intelligence failures and Richard Clarke has articulated that time and time again. But to apologize to the families, I just I think it's political theater.

WALLACE: And Peter, isn't it a difficulty, though, for the Democrats to use this issue in any way, because we were discussing earlier in the show, a Newsweek poll saying that some 65 percent of Americans polled think the Clinton administration didn't take the threat of terrorism seriously enough.

BEINART: No, there's no question about that, and I think Democrats should acknowledge that, sand say -- and say, Look, very few people in the 1990s did take it seriously enough.

But the Clinton administration is not up for re-election. And the basis of the Clinton administration's residual popularity or the Democrats' popularity is not as related to terrorism. It's related to domestic economic issues.

So it is a bigger issue for the Bush administration because terrorism is their key selling point.

WALLACE: Let's focus on Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser. You know, she is going to go on "60 minutes" tonight. You have a Republican member of the commission who is saying it's a political blunder that the White House doesn't allow her to testify publicly.

Putting on your strategist cap, are you seeing any political damage, even though they're exerting executive privilege -- but political damage because she's not going to go publicly before the commission?

HAYES: Yes. You know, I do. And I understand their case on principle on the separation-of-powers argument that they've articulated.

I do think it's a mistake not to have her testify. She has been on, you know, TV shows all week. She's been talking about this openly for a long time. And commission members I have spoken to have said she has done a wonderful job behind the scenes. She has explained things. She's been straightforward. She doesn't have anything to hide.

So I don't understand why they don't put her out. I mean, if she's going to do -- I mean, I had to use a John Kerry soundbyte -- if she's going to do "60 Minutes" tonight, she should be able to give the commission an hour.

WALLACE: You're picking up from any sources within the White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign that there is some real thought about having her ...

HAYES: No, I think they're sort of digging in, and I don't understand it. I mean, they have done it with the commission from the beginning. The commission -- you know, they didn't want the commission to exist, then they didn't want the president to testify, then they were talking about how long he was going to testify. Then they caved on the time he was going to testify. I just think they should just have her testify and settle the questions.

WALLACE: Peter, final word from you. I just want to get a final word from you.

John Kerry saying something sort of interesting on Friday, where he said that, you know, if the Republicans think Clark has lied, well then they should kind of do an investigation and try him for perjury.

Did you think that was smart politically?

BEINART: No, I don't think that made a lot of sense.

But I do think there is a real concern about what Condi Rice would say under oath. What she said has been contradicted by Rice and by Richard Armitage in this own administration. Putting her under oath is a serious matter.

WALLACE: OK. Peter Beinart. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there -- The New Republic. Steve Hayes -- Hayes, from the Weekly Standard.

Thank you both for joining us. We'll see you again soon.

Well, coming up next, poking fun, something lighter at the political landscape. Straight ahead, our weekly review of the late- night laughs.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And time for a favorite here: This week's edition of late-night laughs.

As David Letterman shows, we haven't heard the last from John Kerry's only remaining Democratic rival, Dennis Kucinich.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, THE LATE SHOW: Here we go. Top ten ways he can still be the next president of the United States.

No. 10.

REP. DENNNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Keep doing what I'm doing. I'm winning, right?

LETTERMAN: Yes.

CLARKE: I'm sure I'll be criticized for lots of things. I'm sure they will launch their dogs on me.

JON STEWART, HOST, THE DAILY SHOW: Mr. Clarke? Consider those dogs launched.

(MUSIC, BAHA MEN, "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?") LETTERMAN: No. 4.

KUCINICH: Just wait until I unleash my new campaign slogan, Kucizzle in the hizzle.

CLARKE: I made the case I was asked to make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying you were asked to make an untrue case to the press and the public and that you went ahead and did it?

STEWART: Oh, snap! Game, set, match. Checkmate. You sunk my battleship. Yahtzee!

LETTERMAN: And the No. 1 way Dennis Kucinich can still be the next president of the United States:

KUCINICH: I'm praying for a sex scandal.

LETTERMAN: There you go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Tough to follow that.

Well, thank you for joining us on INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY.

Tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, a tale of political intrigue. John Kerry's FBI files are missing. Gerald Nicosia, from whose house those files were stolen, joins us on CNN.

And in just a little bit, Richard Clarke is Judy Woodruff's guest on "LATE EDITION." Be sure to watch that at 12 noon Eastern.

Have a terrific Sunday. Thanks again for joining us.

"CNN LIVE SUNDAY" continues right now from CNN Center in Atlanta.

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