Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Yasser Arafat Dies; Tony Blair Heads to Washington; Supreme Court Challenges; Congress Plans Post-Election Session About Intel Reforms

Aired November 11, 2004 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This hour, Yasser Arafat's body is being flown back to the Middle East. Will the Palestinian leader's death improve prospects for peace in the Middle East?

Mr. Blair heads to Washington. The British prime minister's got the first post-election invitation to the White House, but is he truly happy to see President Bush back for a second term?

Here's last week's electoral map. So is America really this red? Some new maps tell a different story.

Supreme Court suspense.

TED OLSON, SOLICITOR GENERAL: Make no mistake about it. Any attempt at new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm.

ANNOUNCER: We'll look at the challenges President Bush could face if a seat opens up on the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now, live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us.

As President Bush put it, the death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. A plane carrying his body now is en route from Paris to Egypt. After a military funeral in Cairo, Arafat will be buried in the West Bank, where he long championed his dream of statehood for his people.

The 75-year-old Palestinian leader died earlier this morning at a Paris hospital days after suffering a brain hemorrhage and slipping into a coma. In life, Arafat was branded by some as a hero, by others, as a terrorist. In death, many world leaders see an opening for a new era in the quest for Middle East peace, with former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas elected as Arafat's successor as PLO chairman.

Turning to another flash point in the future of the Middle East, and that is in Iraq, the battle of Falluja. A top Marine commander says U.S. and Iraqi forces are engaged in a tough urban fight, going house to house and building to building in search of insurgents and their weapons.

Right now, at least 23 U.S. and Iraqi troops are reported killed in the fighting; 178 Americans, we are told, have been wounded, an estimated 600 Iraqi insurgents killed.

Well, Iraq and Middle East peace are likely to be the major topics of discussion when British Prime Minister Tony Blair arrives at the White House just a few hours from now. Both conflicts have offered tests of the special relationship between the U.S. and Britain and between Prime Minister Blair and President Bush.

CNN's Robin Oakley reports from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's got the first post-election invite to Washington, but is Tony Blair really that pleased to see George Bush back in the White House? Mr. Bush has fought and won his election. Mr. Blair has his to come. And many in his Labor Party say their potential supporters are dismayed that he must fight it tied to a president who remains deeply unpopular in the U.K.

JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: They say to me, pained expression, why is our leader so close to such a right-wing ideologue American leader? They don't understand it. And it's very damaging.

OAKLEY: It doesn't help, say the critics, that Blair's weak point with electors is Iraq.

MICHAEL ANCRAM, CONSERVATIVE PARTY SPOKESMAN: Bush is now stuck with the mire in Iraq for the foreseeable future. And because of the close relationship, we're stuck as well.

OAKLEY: Opposition politicians, too, complain Mr. Blair hasn't demanded enough in return for his loyalty.

ANCRAM: Instead of pressing the British case or British arguments, he's effectively done what the president asked him to do and forgotten that he should be there arguing in Britain's corner.

OAKLEY: The key test, say Mr. Blair's followers, is on the Middle East. And at Labor's conference in September, he seemed to agree.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think you know the depth of my commitment to the Middle East peace process and share my frustration at the lack of progress. After November, I will make its revival a personal priority.

OAKLEY: Aides now say that Mr. Blair wants to hold the president to his promise that he would invest as much effort in the Middle East as his ally has done in Northern Ireland.

(on camera): Mr. Bush has shown a personal mark of favor with his swift invitation to the prime minister, but British parliamentarians say that what Mr. Blair needs now on the Middle East and other key questions is some concrete evidence that his faithfulness as an ally actually buys him some clout in Washington. So far, they reckon, the evidence is pretty thin.

Robin Oakley, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And focusing once again on the death of Yasser Arafat and a look at the Bush administration and what might come next diplomatically, let's go to White House correspondent Dana Bash.

Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

Well, President Bush expressed his condolences for Yasser Arafat, but, Judy, you know, of course, this is a president who made it pretty clear how he has felt about Yasser Arafat through the years in office. He came into office believing that Yasser Arafat had a chance at a peace deal at the end of the Clinton administration, and that he essentially walked away from what Mr. Bush thought was a good deal, and that that essentially tainted how Mr. Bush felt about Yasser Arafat.

He decided when he came in that that particular episode showed him that Yasser Arafat was not somebody who was interested in peace. Therefore, Mr. Bush never met with Yasser Arafat. He never had him here at the White House at all. And the statement that was released late last night focused on Yasser Arafat, but particularly on what a post-Arafat era could bring.

He said -- quote -- "The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant in Palestinian history. We express our condolences to the Palestinian people. For the Palestinian people, we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspirations for an independent democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors."

Now, who Mr. Bush is sending to Yasser Arafat's funeral illustrates their relationship. He is sending an assistant secretary of state, that is William Burns, to the funeral. He is somebody who is among the lowest levels of officials going from any country, Judy. And this president, seemingly out of frustration with the Palestinians, supported Israel in a way that perhaps no U.S. president has done in the past.

He endorsed Ariel Sharon's idea of pulling out of the Gaza Strip, that at the time without prior approval from the Palestinians. Now, there is already pressure on Mr. Bush to use some of the currency that he perhaps builds up with Israelis with that move to get them to move, to have some moves of goodwill towards the new Palestinian leadership, whomever that might be.

But the whole question of who the Palestinian leadership will be also is something that the Bush administration is taking very -- it's moving forward with in terms of their public statements very cautiously. They are well aware that, over the next 60 days, they need to be careful about what they say about who they may want to deal with, because they do understand here at the White House that there is some distress of the U.S. government, of the Bush administration, on the Palestinian street, and that perhaps endorsing anybody or talking well of any leader, that might hurt the chances of that leader in the elections, Palestinian elections in 60 days.

Now, Mr. Bush did have one public event on this Veterans Day, made no mention of the Mideast peace process, moving forward with it. He simply laid a tomb -- a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers at Arlington Cemetery, as is practice for presidents on Veterans Days.

And tonight, though, Judy, Mr. Bush will host the first foreign leader here at the White House since winning his second term. That is Tony Blair, the British prime minister. He will be coming tonight for dinner and then will be meeting with Mr. Bush tomorrow. And certainly, Prime Minister Blair is somebody who has tried to push President Bush, somebody who is probably his closest ally, to be more engaged in the Mideast peace process.

And it is certain that this issue is going to top the agenda tonight and tomorrow with the two leaders in terms of their discussions -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: In fact, Dana, it's been pretty clear there's been a disagreement between Tony Blair and President Bush over what the approach to the Middle East should be.

BASH: That's right, certainly not as much of a disagreement perhaps as President Bush has had with other European leaders, like, for example, the French president and even the Germans.

The White House had had some frustration that they were trying to convince those leaders not to deal with Yasser Arafat and was frustrated that they essentially didn't listen to the United States. Prime Minister Blair has certainly been, as you said, behind the scenes trying to push the president to deal more with the Palestinians, but he was very careful not to talk specifically about Yasser Arafat, at least in public.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dana Bash bringing us the latest from the White House -- thank you, Dana.

BASH: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Well, another view of the Middle East ahead. After U.S. failures to bring about a lasting peace, what are the prospects now after the death of Yasser Arafat? I'll ask former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger.

Also ahead on this Veterans Day, reflections on those who served, how they influence American politics.

And later, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on her party's future and her private talks with John Kerry.

This is INSIDE POLITICS, the place for campaign news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we've been reporting, the body of Yasser Arafat is en route to Cairo, Egypt, where a military funeral will be held tomorrow.

So, what does the death of the longtime Palestinian leader mean for the prospects for peace in the Middle East?

We're joined now by former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger.

Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us.

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: My pleasure.

WOODRUFF: What do you think it does mean in the short run?

EAGLEBURGER: Oh, boy. You know, anybody who can answer that question is clairvoyant, I think.

But I guess the point I would make is, it really -- in the short run, I think it means probably a hiatus on any talk about a peace process until the Palestinians sort out their leadership. And I don't know how long that's going to take. I don't know how long -- how bloody it's going to be. You know, I think there's some hope that the moderates might be able to win out by this time, because we've seen some evidence over the last six months or so of a lot of unhappiness with Arafat.

At the same time, the guys with the guns oftentimes win these things and the guys with the guns are, by and large, hard-liners. So that is a long way of answering your question, Judy, by telling you I don't know.

WOODRUFF: Well, is there any reason to believe, do you think, that the next Palestinian leader is going to be any better able to control the violent elements, the suicide bombers, than Yasser Arafat was?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, no.

But to the degree that I think Yasser Arafat was, to some degree, if not egging those people on, at least taking a -- you know, looking the other way when they did their thing, if you get a leader who is at least actively trying to stop some of that, it could make some difference. The question is still going to be how much influence he'll have within the Palestinian population, and secondly, whether the -- again, the guys with the guns will let these moderates have more influence.

WOODRUFF: Is the United States, the Bush administration pretty much wedded to permanently the Sharon plan of pulling out of all of the settlements in the West Bank -- or, rather in Gaza, and some in the West Bank? Is that pretty much what there is and what it's going to be?

EAGLEBURGER: I would think so.

You're going to get -- you may get, in a second administration, a push to move out of some more of the settlements than the Sharon plan would call for, but not by -- certainly not anything in and around Jerusalem. I think the administration would leave all of that alone. They might get tougher with Sharon on the question of getting out of more settlements.

But the real question is going to be again their decision on what it is they will be working with on the Palestinian side.

WOODRUFF: What do you mean?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I mean, again, is it going to be Arafat all over again, or will it be some of the more moderate leadership? And if it is, I think the administration would, I would hope and I would think, would become much more readily and deeply involved.

But if it's the old-line Arafat types that are running things, I'm not sure this administration, and I think correctly, I think they would judge there isn't much they can do.

WOODRUFF: So it sounds as if you're saying it doesn't really matter what the elements are, what the options are that are laid out there. If you don't have the right actor on the side of the Palestinians, then it doesn't matter.

EAGLEBURGER: You got it.

WOODRUFF: Are you saying it doesn't matter what the U.S. role is either?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I got to -- again, let me say, if the U.S. is looking at another Arafat, I don't think that there is a great deal that the U.S. can do, as indeed we weren't prepared to do much with Arafat, and I think again, for the right reasons, because we'd gone up that hill once with President Clinton and come very close. And in the last analysis, Arafat showed that he couldn't cut the deal.

Now, if we have somebody new who has a more moderate view and has a fairly strong following of Palestinians who are just fed up with all this bloodshed for so long, then I think there's something that can be worked with. And by the way, then I think it's going to be important that we also tell the Israelis they've got to be a bit more moderate than they have been. Under the circumstances, with that kind of a leadership, I think the U.S. could do a lot. But with a Palestinian leadership that is not much more or less than Arafat was, I don't personally see how we can be of any use.

WOODRUFF: That's a pretty discouraging outlook, isn't it?

EAGLEBURGER: I'm not saying we shouldn't try.

WOODRUFF: Because one wonders what incentive -- one wonders what incentive there is for the Palestinians to come up with a more moderate...

EAGLEBURGER: Well, the incentive for the Palestinians is to choose a leadership that can do business.

Again, I come back to saying that, in the last six months, as you will recall, of the Clinton administration, Arafat was offered the best deal in the world, the best deal he would ever, ever be possible -- it would be possible for him to get, and, in the end, he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it for a number of reasons, I think, one of which was, he wasn't sure he'd be shot in the back of the head by those who didn't want it done.

Secondly, I suspect he recognized he couldn't run a country anyway, if he ever got one. So there were a number of reasons. Some of them I think would take a psychiatrist to answer. But there were a number of reasons that he couldn't cut the deal.

Now, if he's not willing -- wasn't willing to do it, and you get somebody in there who is also a hard-liner, I'm not at all sure I can see that there will be much change. And under those circumstances, the U.S. can yell and scream and stamp its foot, but we can't force the Palestinians to cut a deal.

WOODRUFF: Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, with some pretty sobering words, thank you very much.

EAGLEBURGER: Sorry. Sorry.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

EAGLEBURGER: OK.

WOODRUFF: Well, we only ask to you tell us what you think. We appreciate it.

EAGLEBURGER: OK. Right.

WOODRUFF: Thank you.

And honoring America's veterans this day -- just ahead, a report on Veterans Day ceremonies, including Bruce Morton's essay on why it's about the warriors, not the wars they fight.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: There were solemn ceremonies today to honor the nation's veterans, including troops currently fighting in Iraq. President Bush marked the day by laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery. He said America owes veterans a debt of gratitude.

Now our Bruce Morton with his reflections on Veterans Day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's Veterans Day now, meant to honor all warriors who fought in all our wars. But this date used to be Armistice Day, marking the time, the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, when the guns fell silent and weary men stumbled out from bloody trenches and World War I was over.

It was very bloody. No one bombed cities and killed civilians, but the men in the trenches, draftees mostly, died by the hundreds of thousands to gain or lose a few yards of ground in a cause few, if any, understood.

Wilfred Owen, a British poet who died in the war, wrote that: "If those who weren't there knew what it was like, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for some desperate glory the old lie, dolce et decorum est pro patria mori. It is sweet and proper, the Latin means, to die for your country.

But it wasn't. The war produced the Versailles peace treaty,which led pretty directly to World War II, not much sweet and proper in that. World War II itself was different. Most Americans thought it was a good war. Bill Mauldin, its most famous cartoonist, said, well, you had to kill Hitler.

Korea. President Harry Truman was bitterly criticized for that. Vietnam, draft aged young people stood outside Lyndon Johnson's White House chanting, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?" Americans have always understood the difference between supporting the warriors and supporting the war. Still, that Vietnam bitterness lingers. Some veterans criticized John Kerry for opposing the war after fighting in it.

This time, President Bush wants to defeat terror and spread democracy. Most Americans supported going into Afghanistan to get al Qaeda, but many opposed the invasion of Iraq and it's not clear yet how successful the effort to implant democracy there will be. Departing Attorney General John Ashcroft wrote the president: "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." But he probably should have added so far.

The terrorists haven't quit, and that fight surely is waged one day at a time. So this is a day to honor the warriors. Never mind what history makes of the causes in which they fought.

Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And we honor America's veterans.

Democrats lost ground in Congress in last week's elections. So how do they regroup? I asked that question to Nancy Pelosi. My conversation with the House minority leader when we come back.

Plus, do questions still linger from the vote count in Ohio? Some lawyers from the Kerry campaign are curious. We'll tell you why. (STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We'll have more INSIDE POLITICS in just a moment, but first a quick check of what is happening now in the news.

The body of Yasser Arafat is en route to Cairo, Egypt, where dignitaries from around the world will gather for a military funeral tomorrow. The Palestinian leader died early today in a Paris hospital. Former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas has been chosen to replace Arafat as head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

A top U.S. Marine general in Iraq says operations in Falluja are, in his words, ahead of schedule. He says troops are now going to building to building in an effort to capture weapons supplies. Officials say that so far 18 U.S. troops and five Iraqi soldiers have been killed in the offensive. At least 178 Americans wounded.

ABC affiliates in at least eight states will opt out of the network's airing of the World War II film "Saving Private Ryan" tonight because they say they fear FCC repercussions. The film depicts several violent battle scenes and uses graphic language. Regulators have declined to say in advance whether the film would violate indecency rules.

The second half-hour of INSIDE POLITICS begins right now.

A Supreme battle? If a vacancy occurs on the high court, how fierce a confirmation fight will the president have on his hands?

Welcome back to INSIDE POLITICS. We'll go in-depth on a possible Supreme Court opening in just a few minutes.

But first, Congress is preparing for a post-election session to consider intelligence reforms. But Democrats already are thinking about next year. When January arrives, they will be even more of a minority on Capitol Hill, having lost four Senate seats and, as you can see here, at least two seats in the House, with three more still undecided.

Just a little while ago I spoke with the House Minority leader, Nancy Pelosi. She's on record as saying she thought her party would perform better on Election Day. I asked her what went wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) MINORITY LEADER: Yes, we did think we would do better. In fact, I was absolutely certain that we would have a Democratic president of the United States. I'm still getting over that. But I congratulate President Bush and look forward to working with him.

It was a difficult terrain for us. As I say to my colleagues, the Republicans "altared" the political terrain, a-l-t-a-r-e-d, and that made a bigger challenge for us out there.

As the red states got more redder, it became more difficult for us to -- to win some of the races we had hoped to. But we were proud of our victories.

We held most of our Democratic seats. We only lost one Democratic seat outside of Texas, and I know that's a big "outside."

We won in upstate New York. We won in Georgia. We won in Colorado. We took out, politically speaking, the longest serving Republican in the Congress, Phil Crane, with Melissa Bean in Illinois. She ran a terrific race.

Chet Edwards was elected in Texas. The president's congressman, in his own district, in the president's own district of Crawford, Texas, Chet Edwards, a Democrat, was reelected to Congress.

WOODRUFF: So are the Democrats weaker than they were before?

PELOSI: We went after some incumbents. Our candidates did well. Many of them stand ready to go again.

We'd have an easier time next time because we don't have to defend the five seats in Texas. Hopefully they will be redistricting there and that will be easier for us. But whether it is or not, we'll have plenty of opportunity in the rest of the country without having to be weighted down in taxes. There's absolutely no question that Tom DeLay's strategy in Texas to illegally redistrict -- reapportion the state cost us six seats.

WOODRUFF: But let me just ask you this, is it smarter now for Democrats to work with President Bush on some issues, or to stand your ground?

PELOSI: Well, I think there has to be both. First of all, we always have a responsibility to the public to find our common ground with Republicans and with the president. That's what we are sent here to do. That's what the public expects and deserves. But where we don't find our common ground, they also expect us to stand our ground.

And so people hear about all the fights that we have here, but what we set out to do is get a job done for the American people. But the issues of jobs, health care, education, safe neighborhoods, a safe environment, how we protect and defend the American people, accountability on the budget, these are areas where there's disagreement, and we must have that legitimate debate.

WOODRUFF: Well, now we are being told that the president's -- one of his main priorities next year is going to be reforming, overhauling Social Security, letting younger workers have the option of putting their money, their retirement money into personal, private investment accounts. Are Democrats going to have to go along with that, or do you have a better plan?

PELOSI: No, it's not a question of having a better plan. A better plan would be for Democrats and Republicans together to go to the table with no preconditions and to say, how do we ensure that Social Security will be there for a future generation, and seniors coming up the age pipeline?

We -- the idea that the younger generation would invest their money, they can do that. That is called an add-on. But the safety net of Social Security should be there. And again, with no preconditions, we should go to the table, make sure that Social Security is secure.

When we had the prospect of a giant surplus, as we did coming out of the Clinton administration, Social Security was less in jeopardy. That's not there now, and the proposal that the president is making will cost about $2 trillion over the next 20 years.

That's extremely expensive. It will have to necessitate cutting benefits.

So -- but as far as Social Security reform, so-called reform is concerned, let's get together, let's work on it, make sure that the safety net is there, and talk about how we can increase savings. We're all for that.

WOODRUFF: What was your sense of the meeting with John Kerry, I think it was Tuesday or Monday? I've lost track of days now. Today is Thursday. The day that you met with Senator Kerry, what came across to you from him in that meeting?

PELOSI: Well, in our meeting with Senator Kerry, what came across was the confidence of a person who had proudly carried the banner of the Democrats in this past election, a man who had received 55 million votes and knew that there was strong support in our country for expanding access to health care, reducing dependence on foreign oil, having a jobs initiative that would expand opportunity for all Americans. The list goes on and on.

So it was -- he came in as a person of confidence. We received him with great pride for the job that he did in the race for president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

Well, we have more news about the Democratic Party and who will help to plot its strategy. That's leading the headlines in our "Campaign News Daily."

You can add the name of Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack to the list of potential candidates to lead the Democratic National Committee. A spokesman for Vilsack says the governor would consider running if by doing so he could preserve the first in the nation's status of the Iowa caucuses and also provide "a stronger message for the DNC."

Independent candidate Ralph Nader says the presidential race is not over because every vote still has not been counted. Nader wants a nationwide audit of Election Day problems. In today's "Hartford Courant," he also warns of a "constitutional crime."

Nader has already requested a full recount in New Hampshire. And he accuses John Kerry of going back on his promise that every vote would be counted.

The Kerry campaign is not calling for a recount anywhere, but campaign lawyers are gathering information about voting irregularities in Ohio. A campaign attorney calls the effort a "fact-finding mission."

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton excited a crowd at Tufts University last night in Boston with the mere mention of a woman running for president. About 5,000 people showed up to hear Senator Clinton, who praised the courage of a woman who recently ran for president in Afghanistan. The crowd erupted in cheers as Senator Clinton described the woman's campaign as a "remarkable feat" that she says puts Afghanistan's women ahead of America's women.

Well, we've all seen maps of the United States, which these days show a sea of red, signifying areas won by Bush. And much smaller patches of blue signifying areas won by John Kerry. So if red really dominates America, why was the election so close? Well, you could say when it comes to maps, at least, it depends on how you look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF (voice-over): This is your country, red, almost from sea to shining sea. Red in the North, red in the South. Huge swathes of red in the middle.

Enough to give any Democrat the blues. Right? Well, maybe not. Here's why.

What the red states have is a whole lot of land. But the blue states have a whole lot of people. And in electoral politics, people have the power.

Let's go back to our map and tweak it, like three professors at the University of Michigan have done. This is your country, too, in cartogram form. The size of the states has been adjusted to reflect the size of their populations. California's not so slim anymore, and America's not so red.

The new map gives a better picture of why the popular vote's been so close of late. Let's look at it another way.

Here we see the Republican and Democratic counties. Again, lots of red. Now, here's the cartogram as counties are adjusted for population. A swirling nation.

But get this: red and blue is not always black and white. The University of Michigan folks point out many red counties are barely red. In other words, they have a slim Republican majority. So they're more purplish, really.

See? Pretty cool, huh? Wait. Here comes the cartogram. Purple haze, electoral map for the Jimi Hendrix in all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And we invite your version of the map of the United States. We're welcoming all suggestions. And our thanks to those scientists, political scientists at the University of Michigan.

Well, President Bush could have a historic chance to remake the U.S. Supreme Court. Up next, our Bob Franken profiles a potential Bush nominee and looks ahead to the confirmation battles that loom on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: With several members of the Supreme Court facing health-related problems, some court watchers predict that President Bush will name at least one, and maybe more new justices. CNN's Bob Franken profiles a prominent figure in conservative legal circles who is often mentioned as a potential nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Bush solicitor General Theodore Olson is well aware he's being mentioned as a possible nominee for chief justice.

THEODORE OLSON, FMR. SOLICITOR GENERAL: They're using my name to scare (INAUDIBLE).

FRANKEN: Olson wishes the current chief justice, William Rehnquist, a speedy recovery, and is quick to say there is no opening on the court. But if there is one...

OLSON: I don't think about things like that. I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

FRANKEN: As Olson made clear, though, speaking for the conservative legal organization, The Federalist Society, he's given it a lot of thought.

OLSON: There may soon be a vacancy for the president to fill, perhaps two or three on the Supreme Court of the United States. The opportunity to change our cultural and legal landscape for a generation may therefore be a part of the president's victory last week.

FRANKEN: Olson organized the Bush side before the Supreme Court in Bush versus Gore. After his wife, Barbara Olson, was killed on 9/11 in the hijacked plane that crashed into the Pentagon, he became as solicitor general a principle legal advocate of the administration's arguments that the president had near unlimited power to conduct the war on terror and detain enemy combatants. Any nominee with strong conservative credentials can expect a tough fight in the Senate. NAN ARON, PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR JUSTICE: We don't want an individual who comes to the court with views that would essentially turn back the clock for all Americans.

OLSON: Make no mistake about it, any attempted new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: A warning perhaps that any effort by the president to avoid a bitter fight by choosing a consensus nominee for the Supreme Court would probably be futile -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So Bob, how much resistance would Ted Olson face if he were named?

FRANKEN: Well, we would face quite a bit because he has a conservative track record. And there are going to be groups that describe themselves as progressive, who are going to say that his record is one that they can't accept.

However, he is a longtime established institution in Washington. He is an affable person who gets along well with people on the other side. And there could be a feeling this would be somebody who is conservative, pleasing the conservatives, that the Democrats and progressives might swallow and support.

WOODRUFF: OK. Bob Franken on the story. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

A familiar voice in the debate over faith and values is reviving his political organization. The Reverend Jerry Falwell has launched the "Faith and Values Coalition," which he describes as a "21st century resurrection of the moral majority." Falwell will serve as chairman of the group, which is designed, we are told, to encourage evangelical voters to remain active in the political process.

The world is preparing to bid a final farewell to Yasser Arafat. Will the death of the longtime Palestinian leader usher in an new era in Arab-Israeli relations? We'll talk about the prospects for peace with Middle East experts after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: More now on the death of Yasser Arafat and what it may mean for the future of Arab-Israeli relations. For some perspective, we're joined by Ed Djerejian. He is a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, and now he's the director of Rice University's James Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Ambassador Djerejian, thank you for joining us. In the short run, what effect will the death of Yasser Arafat have?

EDWARD DJEREJIAN, DIRECTOR, BAKER INSTITUTE, RICE UNIVERSITY: Well, in the short run, there will be a great deal of popular emotions and feelings since he was the symbolic leader of the Palestinian cause, resistance, nationalism. But in the near term, and in the longer term, this is a moment of incredibly important transition for the Palestinian people and their institutions for an elected leadership that might be able to do things that Arafat was not able to do.

WOODRUFF: In what way? I mean, is it -- they've already said who the next leader will be taking his place. So what are the decisions to be made that will have a bearing down the road?

DJEREJIAN: Well, the first decisions that have to be made, Judy, is that the new leadership has to reestablish public order, be able to control the territories, assure that civil life continues in an orderly manner. And then start taking on the key issues, economic, social, and most important, in terms of the future of the Palestinian people, negotiations with Israel.

WOODRUFF: Do you believe that the next leader of the Palestinians will be better able to control the violent elements in -- in that society, the suicide bombers, better able than Yasser Arafat was?

DJEREJIAN: That's an important question. We don't know the answer to that.

However, if there is a collective effort on the part of the major parties and groups within the Palestinian movement, and that's obviously Fatah, the PLO, and then reaching out to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, to perhaps make some sort of political opening to them, as has been done in countries like Jordan and Morocco with some success, to the more extremist parties within their countries, there may be some hope. But I think the crunch point is going to come when some very important decisions have to be made by the new leadership to control the security environment.

Which means that some groups may be asked to give up weapons, to end violence, to stop suicide attempts and suicide operations. That's when -- that will be a moment of reckoning to see how successful any new leadership will be.

WOODRUFF: Why is that a crunch point?

DJEREJIAN: Well, because if these groups both, if they do not agree to do that, there can be confrontations between the new leadership and these groups, which could devolve into an unstable situation. But I don't think -- that would be a worst-case analysis.

I really do think that the Palestinians now will try to build their institutions. Of all the people in the Arab world, Judy, I really feel that the Palestinians have an inherent ability to start building democratic institutions. And they may very well start doing that.

WOODRUFF: There's a lot of talk right now. President Bush himself talked about this as a -- as a potential great opportunity for there to be some movement toward peace in the Middle East. But are you suggesting that, unless the Palestinians, in so many words, "get their act together," that it's going to be difficult for anyone else to effect the move toward peace in that part of the world?

DJEREJIAN: Yes. What I'm saying is that the new leadership has to control its security environment in the West Bank and in Gaza. That's a very important first step.

Without public security on the ground, it's going to be very difficult to move forward politically, economically, socially, all of these important objectives that need to be met for the Palestinian people. And then to get to the point where the opportunity is with Sharon's unilateral disengagement from Gaza, if that can be now done as a trilateral consultant process between the Israelis, the Palestinians and third parties, basically the United States, the quartet, and that could be successfully accomplished, it could become a major step toward the third stage of the roadmap and final status negotiations.

This should be the goal. This, in my eyes, is the goal. But it means that the Palestinian Authority, the new leadership has to be able to control its environment.

WOODRUFF: The perspective of Ed Djerejian, former ambassador to Israel. Now with the James Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University. We thank you very much.

DJEREJIAN: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: It's good to talk to you.

DJEREJIAN: Good to be with you.

WOODRUFF: Thanks again.

Well, the Democrats are trying to carry on after John Kerry's defeat, but who will lead them out of the wilderness? Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan will chew on that question.

And whether Republicans really have it al together after President Bush's election win. That's ahead on INSIDE POLITICS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It is just before 4:00 in the East. And as the markets get set to close on Wall Street, I'm joined by Lou Dobbs in New York for "The Dobbs Report."

Hi, Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Hi, Judy.

The post-election rally, the Bush rally, if you will, continues. The Dow Jones industrials today moving higher and into positive territory for the year.

As the final trades are now being counted at this hour, the Dow Jones industrials up just about 90 points, and sending about 2000 -- 10000, rather, 10,475. That's just slightly higher than where it all began back in January. The Nasdaq adding a little more than one percent on the day.

Oil prices falling more than $1, resuming a two-week slide that's cut 15 percent from the recent records. Rising inventories are easing concerns over the supplies of winter and home heating oil.

New York Stock Exchange regulators say they've launched an investigation into so-called late trading at the Exchange. That occurs when firms send in trades in the last seconds of the day, trying possibly to manipulate the final prices at the bell.

Microsoft has launched its own web search engine to compete with both Google and Yahoo! The new search service scans some 5 billion pages on the web, but Google is ready for a fight. In response, the company says it's nearly doubling the size of its search index up to more than 8 million web pages so the fight is on.

And Blockbuster trying to buy out its main rival in video rentals, Hollywood Entertainment, offering $700 million for that Hollywood Video chain. The combined company would control nearly half the movie rental market in the country.

Controversy over ABC's decision to run "Saving Private Ryan" in honor of Veterans Day. More than 20 affiliates are refusing to air the war drama. They are concerned the Oscar-winning film's violence and crude language would draw sanctions from the FCC. The movie already has aired on the network profanity and all back in 2001 and in 2002. And we'll have much more on this story on CNN here at 6:00 p.m. Eastern on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT." With the FCC crackdown on broadcasting indecency, we take a look at why ABC would even bother to run such a controversial movie in prime time.

Also on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" we take a look at the prospects for peace in the Middle East following the death of Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat Arafat. The PLO's legal adviser Diana Buttu is my guest.

And former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations Dore Gold will be here. He is the author of a new book accusing the United Nations of fueling and sustaining global chaos. "The Tower of Babel," the title of the book.

And Florida's Senator-Elect Mel Martinez will join me. We'll be talking about the Bush agenda and his goals for the U.S. Senate.

That's it from New York. Now back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Lou, the story you're reporting on, this controversy over the airing of "Saving Private Ryan" on these ABC affiliates, what is really going on there, do you think?

DOBBS: The question is as you put it. What is going on? Because three broadcast groups, Citadel, Belo, and Scripps have all decided not to air this movie in prime time because they're afraid of fines from the FCC. But it's as you suggest, entirely possible that something else is at work here. A conflict of values and perhaps an engagement on this issue, this cultural battle that may be well under way given the outcome of the election. We'll be reporting on that tonight.

WOODRUFF: We will be watching. 6:00 Eastern. Lou, thank you very much. And INSIDE POLITICS continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: He's being revered as a Palestinian hero and reviled as a terrorist. But will Yasser Arafat's death open diplomatic doors in the search for Middle East peace?

DAVID MAKOVSKY, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: I think the president and the Bush administration will be tested these next six to nine months.

ANNOUNCER: They were united as never before during the campaign but with the election over are cracks appearing in the Democratic party? Now, live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. The first leg of Yasser Arafat's final journey home is now over. The plane carrying the Palestinian leader's body landed just moments ago in Cairo. These are live pictures coming into CNN. Egyptian officials will be holding a military funeral for Arafat before he is buried in the West Bank. Arafat's death in Paris early this morning at age 75 possibly could be a turning point in the long search for peace in the Middle East.

Marking Arafat's death President Bush said that he hopes the future will bring peace for the Palestinian people but achieving that goal is a formidable challenge, we know. Here is our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Yasser Arafat's death presents a test for President Bush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president and the Bush administration will be tested in these next six to nine months.

SCHNEIDER: What is required is caution, nuance. Makovski says the United States has to encourage a more moderate Palestinian leadership without embracing it too tightly and discrediting it.

ARI SHAVIT, HA'ARETZ: These gestures have to be very well calculated so they're not interpreted as forgiveness for terror and willing to accept terror. But really as a kind of reaching out to the Palestinian people.

SCHNEIDER: The same more pragmatic Palestinians were in power last year but nothing came of it in part because Arafat was still in control.

MAKOVSKY: Nobody did enough during that very brief Ramallah spring of 130 days and let's try to ensure that this opportunity is not missed.

SCHNEIDER: President Clinton knows something about missed opportunities in the Middle East and about Arafat's role in creating them.

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made a peace proposal and Mr. Arafat turned it down, Prime Minister Barak of Israel took it, a year and a half later Arafat said he wanted it and by then he had an Israeli government that wouldn't give it to him.

SCHNEIDER: President Bush often thinks in absolute terms. Good and evil. Right and wrong.

MAKOVSKY: I think we have to avoid falling into what I call an all or nothing trap which is belief that here's the moment. Tomorrow morning we are going to solve a century-old conflict called the Arab- Israeli conflict.

SCHNEIDER: What is required is an unBush-like subtlety and compromise. That's what Israelis and Palestinians are demonstrating right now over of all things the issue of where Arafat will be buried.

SHAVIT: The Israelis wanted at first to have Mr. Arafat buried in Gaza. The Palestinians wanted him to be buried in Jerusalem. The fact that both sides really gave up on their original position and did not make a fuss, did not get into some sort of conflict is really part of this new attempt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: The Israeli statesman Abba Eban once said, "the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

Well, now there is a new opportunity just as President Bush's partner in war, British Prime Minister Tony Blair is arriving in Washington and Blair would like nothing more than to be Bush's partner in peace -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: That may be but just about an hour ago I interviewed former secretary of state Lawrence Eagleburger on the program and he said in effect that if the Palestinians choose another hardline leader like Yasser Arafat, he said that there is really little or nothing the United States can do to move the process forward.

SCHNEIDER: That is absolutely true. That would bear out Abba Eban's statement. Again, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

WOODRUFF: All right. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.

Democrats are facing a different kind of test right now as they struggle to find their footing after their election day losses. Coming up will division and second guessing keep them from getting their act together? We'll have a report on the latest infighting.

And then we'll let Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan have at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: These are live pictures from Cairo, Egypt, coming into CNN. This is the plane that carried the body of Yasser Arafat home, in effect. He was born in Cairo in 1929. His body is being brought back to that city where there will be a funeral this Friday. After that he'll be flown to the occupied territories and buried in Ramallah.

This is his widow, Suha Arafat, coming off of the plane. Again, the plane landed just moments ago in Cairo. The funeral services -- we are told that the body of Yasser Arafat is going to be taken off the plane and transported to a military hospital. And then, services are planned in Cairo for some time between around 4:00 a.m. Eastern time, 11:00 a.m. local time on Friday.

Then, he will be flown -- the body will be flown to Ramallah where burial is scheduled to take place also Friday between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. local time, between 7:00 and 8:00 a.m. Eastern time on Friday.

Suha Arafat with -- arriving in Cairo with the body of her late husband Yasser Arafat.

Well, as you saw earlier on INSIDE POLITICS, Democrats such as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi are trying to put the best face on their Election Day losses. But in-fighting over who's to blame and what happens now seems to be spilling out in public, or at least in newspapers and during party postmortems.

Here now, CNN's Jennifer Michael.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER MICHAEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats presented a united front during the presidential campaign, but now splinters are showing and all those pointing fingers and wringing hands. Under the microscope, reported rifts that plagued the Kerry campaign.

As Arianna Huffington tells it in "The Los Angeles Times," Bob Shrum and campaign late-comers from the Clinton era successfully pushed their once-winning, "It's the economy, stupid!" theme, only to lose the election.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want an economy where Americans aren't just working for the economy, the economy is working for Americans.

MICHAEL: A rival camp within the campaign dubbed the "Truth and Trust Team" reportedly remains bitter that Iraq got sidelined as Kerry's dominant issue. In a variety of op-eds and articles, recriminations are flying, often with an eye toward saving face and salvaging reputations. Many other Democrats prefer to look forward, but they do so with high anxiety.

DOUG SOSNIK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: We're completely out of power right now. We are the opposition party.

MICHAEL: Amid the soul searching over how to get party back on track, yet another centrist Democratic group has been formed. This one, called "Third Way," hopes to wield influence through moderate Senate Democrats, such as Evan Bayh, Thomas Carper, Mary Landrieu, and Blanche Lincoln.

One of their goals -- to promote a third way on the moral values issues that were so key to voters this year.

SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN (D), ARKANSAS: Whatever that value is, they want to know where it comes from, not necessarily just that it is a way to get one step further in an elected position.

MICHAEL: Third Way organizers are quoted as saying they will have their own niche in the alphabet soup of centrist Democratic organizations, including the DLC, PPI, and NDN.

But as they lick their wounds, Democrats may risk dividing themselves into too many factions in their quest to get it together before the next election. And a possible tussle over who will take over leadership of the Democratic National Committee, a liberal or a moderate, could further expose party splinters.

Jennifer Michael, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And by the way, John Kerry's close friend and his former brother-in-law, David Thorne, will be the guest here on INSIDE POLITICS tomorrow. He reportedly was part of the so-called Truth and Trust Team, urging Kerry to emphasize the war in Iraq during the campaign. Again, he'll be a guest on our program tomorrow.

I want to take you back to live pictures coming into CNN from Cairo. We are told, yes, this is the body of Yasser Arafat being carried from the plane that brought him from Paris to Cairo, where a funeral will take place early tomorrow.

Suha Arafat, the widow of the late Palestinian leader, flew with her husband's body. And she is part of a small group gathered there at the airport in Cairo, watching as he is carried to a waiting vehicle. And from there, he'll be taken to -- the body will be taken to a military hospital.

CNN's Cairo Bureau Chief Ben Wedeman joins us now by telephone -- Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Judy. Well, what we see here is, yes, we're seeing Suha Arafat at the Cairo International Airport. What is interesting is that Yasser Arafat is returning here to his birthplace. He was born in Cairo in 1929. His father was a Palestinian businessman from Gaza who moved from Palestine -- which at the time was considered something of a backwater -- to Cairo, which obviously is the commercial center for the entire region.

Yasser Arafat spent many years of his youth here. He studied at the Cairo University where he studied engineering. He spoke, interestingly enough, Arabic with an Egyptian accent.

So, Cairo very much an important city for Yasser Arafat, and one where, as we have seen over the last few days, he has many connections. In fact, yesterday we went to his old neighborhood where some people still remembered him as a young revolutionary -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Ben, we know that the military funeral will be taking place tomorrow morning near -- we're told near Cairo's airport. There are three full days of official mourning in Egypt.

How are the people there receiving this? Is it the subject of much conversation?

WEDEMAN: It certainly is, Judy. Yasser Arafat was a man who had a certain amount of street popularity, credibility among ordinary Egyptians. They saw him at the end of his life as something of a tragic figure. He was often described as a prisoner of Ramallah. Somebody who, unlike many Arab leaders, as a matter of fact, did not live a sumptuous life in villas and palaces. Somebody who clearly did not spend a lot of money on himself -- although, we have heard so many stories of corruption. But the money that (INAUDIBLE) through him, it appears went really to maintain the loyalty of those around him.

So, Yasser Arafat, a popular figure. Something of a folk hero, as a matter of fact, among Egyptians. And what is interesting, Judy, is the funeral is not going be open to the public. It is by invitation only. This evening, in fact, we heard an Egyptian official from the Ministry of the Interior making the point on Egyptian television that the funeral is not open to the public. Some analysts suggesting that Arab leaders don't want a display of affection and love for somebody who might hurt eclipse their own often kind of state-sponsored image in the region -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Ben Wedeman, CNN's Cairo bureau chief.

We are watching the remains of Yasser Arafat, the body brought home to Cairo, the city of his birth 75 years ago. He died early this morning in Paris. And he has just been brought to Cairo. The funeral, tomorrow morning. Burial, later tomorrow in Ramallah in the West Bank.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: With me now, former Gore campaign manager Donna Brazile, and Bay Buchanan, president of American Cause. So much to talk about, so little time. Let's get right to it.

Donna, the fingers are already pointing frantically from inside the former John Kerry campaign. An article in "The L.A. Times" today saying that David Thorne, who is very close to John Kerry, and others, are really not happy with people like Bob Shrum and James Carville, who were out there saying John Kerry should have focused on the economy. He says he should have focused on Iraq.

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: There's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking. But the fact is that John Kerry lost by 75,000 votes. Had 75,000 went in the other direction, he would've won Ohio. They shouldn't just focus on what John Kerry did wrong but perhaps look at the larger issue of how to go about changing the party without finger-pointing and getting to second-guessing.

I learned a valuable lesson four years ago after the Gore campaign. That is, it proves nothing to go around and criticize individuals. What needs to happen now is somebody needs to take a look at what happened and then where do we go from here.

BAY BUCHANAN, PRES., AMERICAN CAUSE: You know, it is clear what happened. It is very simple. They had all the money. They had the media working with them. They had Hollywood. They had all of these paid consultants trying to beat George W. Bush and he beat them.

George W. Bush, with everything thrown at him, took them all on and he beat them. That's what they should focus on is how George W. Bush, the man from Crawford, Texas, could beat them with all that they had going for them.

WOODRUFF: So you're saying even if John Kerry had been talking more about Iraq, it wouldn't have made any difference?

BUCHANAN: He did talk about Iraq. If I remember correctly, the last 10 days, you all were working on that 385...

WOODRUFF: We were.

BUCHANAN: You know, pounding it out there. They were moving around the message a little bit, left and right, trying to figure out the right message. They couldn't beat George W. Bush, that's the bottom line.

BRAZILE: But they -- first of all, George Bush could have been beaten and it is too bad that John Kerry didn't beat him this time around. But the truth of the matter is that the party has to begin the rebuilding process. And part of rebuilding is to analyze what happened.

But I think pointing fingers at individuals as opposed to looking at overall how well the party did against a very strong entrenched incumbent president, a wartime president, I think, would be a more wiser step than just fighting among ourselves.

BUCHANAN: There is no question, they have got to figure out why 3.5 million Americans more voted for Bush than John Kerry. BRAZILE: We're still counting the votes, Bay.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: I know. You guys do that for years.

(CROSSTALK)

WOODRUFF: Bay, let me ask you about a comment made in the last few days by a Republican consultant, Arthur Finkelstein, talking to some press in Israel. And I'm just quoting here. He said: "The political center," he said, "has disappeared, the Republican Party has become the party of the Christian right more so than in any other period in modern history."

He goes on to basically say that if you're pro-life, you're fine in the Republican Party. You're going to be able to get the nomination. But if you're pro-choice, forget it. And he specifically talks about George Pataki.

BUCHANAN: Mr. Finkelstein is an extremely talented consultant. He's also a moderate Republican, always has been. As talented as he is, he knows as well as I do that this has always been the case, always in Republican primaries, anyone who is pro-choice, us pro- lifers are looking out for them. We work those primaries and we always deliver a pro-life nominee.

BRAZILE: Bay, whatever happened to the big tent? It's a narrow door to get through the Republican nominating process. Look, I think Arthur Finkelstein, who, in many ways, is the architect of some of the divisive politics of the Republican Party, is speaking truth. The problem is that the moderate Republicans have no place to go, so hopefully some of them will just flip the script and come and join those moderate Democrats and we can have a majority again.

BUCHANAN: Us conservatives had felt we had nowhere else to go for a couple of years, now we've delivered the White House and a number of those Senate seats right back to the Republicans.

WOODRUFF: But in essence what he's saying is that, you know, whether it is Rudy Giuliani, who appears to be very interested in running, George Pataki and others might as well forget it.

BUCHANAN: No. They have as much opportunity to run as our pro- life leaders. And let them all run and let's see who is going to win.

WOODRUFF: But you're saying they don't have a chance.

BUCHANAN: But I'm telling you that those pro-lifers out there are the heart and soul of our party. They're the hardest workers. And they work those primaries. They know how to. And they are going to make certain it is a pro-life president.

BRAZILE: There's a home in the Democratic Party for the pro- life, pro-choice and everyone else in between. The fact is, Judy, is that... BUCHANAN: Yes, they have got empty rooms over there

BRAZILE: They have a couple of bodies in a couple of those rooms. But the fact is is that the Republican Party now has a large segment of its population that has no place to call home.

BUCHANAN: That is just so false. This party -- the Republican Party has always reached out. We have all kinds of people in that party. But the pro-lifers and those who really believe strongly in social agenda have said, look, you put our issues on the back burner for way too long. We came forward and we basically put the man back in the White House.

WOODRUFF: But the extension of his point is that if the party continues in this direction, it's going to get smaller because...

BUCHANAN: Well, we got bigger, Judy, because we have a pro-life strong leader who is solid on the social issues. And George W. Bush and the party has grown. We became -- we had more people vote this time than ever before. It has been good for the party. So now for moderates who say, oh my gosh, his client, Pataki, is going to have a much tougher time, that's the way it is. We have spoken out. We're now a loud voice. We're no longer timid in our party.

BRAZILE: And from the mouth of God...

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: Bay Buchanan has spoken, Donna Brazile has spoken. And we're glad for them. Thank you both. We appreciate it.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

BUCHANAN: Good to be with you.

WOODRUFF: INSIDE POLITICS will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: That's it for this INSIDE POLITICS on November 11. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thank you for joining us. "CROSSFIRE" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 11, 2004 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This hour, Yasser Arafat's body is being flown back to the Middle East. Will the Palestinian leader's death improve prospects for peace in the Middle East?

Mr. Blair heads to Washington. The British prime minister's got the first post-election invitation to the White House, but is he truly happy to see President Bush back for a second term?

Here's last week's electoral map. So is America really this red? Some new maps tell a different story.

Supreme Court suspense.

TED OLSON, SOLICITOR GENERAL: Make no mistake about it. Any attempt at new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm.

ANNOUNCER: We'll look at the challenges President Bush could face if a seat opens up on the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now, live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us.

As President Bush put it, the death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. A plane carrying his body now is en route from Paris to Egypt. After a military funeral in Cairo, Arafat will be buried in the West Bank, where he long championed his dream of statehood for his people.

The 75-year-old Palestinian leader died earlier this morning at a Paris hospital days after suffering a brain hemorrhage and slipping into a coma. In life, Arafat was branded by some as a hero, by others, as a terrorist. In death, many world leaders see an opening for a new era in the quest for Middle East peace, with former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas elected as Arafat's successor as PLO chairman.

Turning to another flash point in the future of the Middle East, and that is in Iraq, the battle of Falluja. A top Marine commander says U.S. and Iraqi forces are engaged in a tough urban fight, going house to house and building to building in search of insurgents and their weapons.

Right now, at least 23 U.S. and Iraqi troops are reported killed in the fighting; 178 Americans, we are told, have been wounded, an estimated 600 Iraqi insurgents killed.

Well, Iraq and Middle East peace are likely to be the major topics of discussion when British Prime Minister Tony Blair arrives at the White House just a few hours from now. Both conflicts have offered tests of the special relationship between the U.S. and Britain and between Prime Minister Blair and President Bush.

CNN's Robin Oakley reports from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's got the first post-election invite to Washington, but is Tony Blair really that pleased to see George Bush back in the White House? Mr. Bush has fought and won his election. Mr. Blair has his to come. And many in his Labor Party say their potential supporters are dismayed that he must fight it tied to a president who remains deeply unpopular in the U.K.

JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: They say to me, pained expression, why is our leader so close to such a right-wing ideologue American leader? They don't understand it. And it's very damaging.

OAKLEY: It doesn't help, say the critics, that Blair's weak point with electors is Iraq.

MICHAEL ANCRAM, CONSERVATIVE PARTY SPOKESMAN: Bush is now stuck with the mire in Iraq for the foreseeable future. And because of the close relationship, we're stuck as well.

OAKLEY: Opposition politicians, too, complain Mr. Blair hasn't demanded enough in return for his loyalty.

ANCRAM: Instead of pressing the British case or British arguments, he's effectively done what the president asked him to do and forgotten that he should be there arguing in Britain's corner.

OAKLEY: The key test, say Mr. Blair's followers, is on the Middle East. And at Labor's conference in September, he seemed to agree.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think you know the depth of my commitment to the Middle East peace process and share my frustration at the lack of progress. After November, I will make its revival a personal priority.

OAKLEY: Aides now say that Mr. Blair wants to hold the president to his promise that he would invest as much effort in the Middle East as his ally has done in Northern Ireland.

(on camera): Mr. Bush has shown a personal mark of favor with his swift invitation to the prime minister, but British parliamentarians say that what Mr. Blair needs now on the Middle East and other key questions is some concrete evidence that his faithfulness as an ally actually buys him some clout in Washington. So far, they reckon, the evidence is pretty thin.

Robin Oakley, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And focusing once again on the death of Yasser Arafat and a look at the Bush administration and what might come next diplomatically, let's go to White House correspondent Dana Bash.

Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

Well, President Bush expressed his condolences for Yasser Arafat, but, Judy, you know, of course, this is a president who made it pretty clear how he has felt about Yasser Arafat through the years in office. He came into office believing that Yasser Arafat had a chance at a peace deal at the end of the Clinton administration, and that he essentially walked away from what Mr. Bush thought was a good deal, and that that essentially tainted how Mr. Bush felt about Yasser Arafat.

He decided when he came in that that particular episode showed him that Yasser Arafat was not somebody who was interested in peace. Therefore, Mr. Bush never met with Yasser Arafat. He never had him here at the White House at all. And the statement that was released late last night focused on Yasser Arafat, but particularly on what a post-Arafat era could bring.

He said -- quote -- "The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant in Palestinian history. We express our condolences to the Palestinian people. For the Palestinian people, we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspirations for an independent democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors."

Now, who Mr. Bush is sending to Yasser Arafat's funeral illustrates their relationship. He is sending an assistant secretary of state, that is William Burns, to the funeral. He is somebody who is among the lowest levels of officials going from any country, Judy. And this president, seemingly out of frustration with the Palestinians, supported Israel in a way that perhaps no U.S. president has done in the past.

He endorsed Ariel Sharon's idea of pulling out of the Gaza Strip, that at the time without prior approval from the Palestinians. Now, there is already pressure on Mr. Bush to use some of the currency that he perhaps builds up with Israelis with that move to get them to move, to have some moves of goodwill towards the new Palestinian leadership, whomever that might be.

But the whole question of who the Palestinian leadership will be also is something that the Bush administration is taking very -- it's moving forward with in terms of their public statements very cautiously. They are well aware that, over the next 60 days, they need to be careful about what they say about who they may want to deal with, because they do understand here at the White House that there is some distress of the U.S. government, of the Bush administration, on the Palestinian street, and that perhaps endorsing anybody or talking well of any leader, that might hurt the chances of that leader in the elections, Palestinian elections in 60 days.

Now, Mr. Bush did have one public event on this Veterans Day, made no mention of the Mideast peace process, moving forward with it. He simply laid a tomb -- a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers at Arlington Cemetery, as is practice for presidents on Veterans Days.

And tonight, though, Judy, Mr. Bush will host the first foreign leader here at the White House since winning his second term. That is Tony Blair, the British prime minister. He will be coming tonight for dinner and then will be meeting with Mr. Bush tomorrow. And certainly, Prime Minister Blair is somebody who has tried to push President Bush, somebody who is probably his closest ally, to be more engaged in the Mideast peace process.

And it is certain that this issue is going to top the agenda tonight and tomorrow with the two leaders in terms of their discussions -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: In fact, Dana, it's been pretty clear there's been a disagreement between Tony Blair and President Bush over what the approach to the Middle East should be.

BASH: That's right, certainly not as much of a disagreement perhaps as President Bush has had with other European leaders, like, for example, the French president and even the Germans.

The White House had had some frustration that they were trying to convince those leaders not to deal with Yasser Arafat and was frustrated that they essentially didn't listen to the United States. Prime Minister Blair has certainly been, as you said, behind the scenes trying to push the president to deal more with the Palestinians, but he was very careful not to talk specifically about Yasser Arafat, at least in public.

WOODRUFF: All right, Dana Bash bringing us the latest from the White House -- thank you, Dana.

BASH: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Well, another view of the Middle East ahead. After U.S. failures to bring about a lasting peace, what are the prospects now after the death of Yasser Arafat? I'll ask former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger.

Also ahead on this Veterans Day, reflections on those who served, how they influence American politics.

And later, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on her party's future and her private talks with John Kerry.

This is INSIDE POLITICS, the place for campaign news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: As we've been reporting, the body of Yasser Arafat is en route to Cairo, Egypt, where a military funeral will be held tomorrow.

So, what does the death of the longtime Palestinian leader mean for the prospects for peace in the Middle East?

We're joined now by former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger.

Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us.

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: My pleasure.

WOODRUFF: What do you think it does mean in the short run?

EAGLEBURGER: Oh, boy. You know, anybody who can answer that question is clairvoyant, I think.

But I guess the point I would make is, it really -- in the short run, I think it means probably a hiatus on any talk about a peace process until the Palestinians sort out their leadership. And I don't know how long that's going to take. I don't know how long -- how bloody it's going to be. You know, I think there's some hope that the moderates might be able to win out by this time, because we've seen some evidence over the last six months or so of a lot of unhappiness with Arafat.

At the same time, the guys with the guns oftentimes win these things and the guys with the guns are, by and large, hard-liners. So that is a long way of answering your question, Judy, by telling you I don't know.

WOODRUFF: Well, is there any reason to believe, do you think, that the next Palestinian leader is going to be any better able to control the violent elements, the suicide bombers, than Yasser Arafat was?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, no.

But to the degree that I think Yasser Arafat was, to some degree, if not egging those people on, at least taking a -- you know, looking the other way when they did their thing, if you get a leader who is at least actively trying to stop some of that, it could make some difference. The question is still going to be how much influence he'll have within the Palestinian population, and secondly, whether the -- again, the guys with the guns will let these moderates have more influence.

WOODRUFF: Is the United States, the Bush administration pretty much wedded to permanently the Sharon plan of pulling out of all of the settlements in the West Bank -- or, rather in Gaza, and some in the West Bank? Is that pretty much what there is and what it's going to be?

EAGLEBURGER: I would think so.

You're going to get -- you may get, in a second administration, a push to move out of some more of the settlements than the Sharon plan would call for, but not by -- certainly not anything in and around Jerusalem. I think the administration would leave all of that alone. They might get tougher with Sharon on the question of getting out of more settlements.

But the real question is going to be again their decision on what it is they will be working with on the Palestinian side.

WOODRUFF: What do you mean?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I mean, again, is it going to be Arafat all over again, or will it be some of the more moderate leadership? And if it is, I think the administration would, I would hope and I would think, would become much more readily and deeply involved.

But if it's the old-line Arafat types that are running things, I'm not sure this administration, and I think correctly, I think they would judge there isn't much they can do.

WOODRUFF: So it sounds as if you're saying it doesn't really matter what the elements are, what the options are that are laid out there. If you don't have the right actor on the side of the Palestinians, then it doesn't matter.

EAGLEBURGER: You got it.

WOODRUFF: Are you saying it doesn't matter what the U.S. role is either?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I got to -- again, let me say, if the U.S. is looking at another Arafat, I don't think that there is a great deal that the U.S. can do, as indeed we weren't prepared to do much with Arafat, and I think again, for the right reasons, because we'd gone up that hill once with President Clinton and come very close. And in the last analysis, Arafat showed that he couldn't cut the deal.

Now, if we have somebody new who has a more moderate view and has a fairly strong following of Palestinians who are just fed up with all this bloodshed for so long, then I think there's something that can be worked with. And by the way, then I think it's going to be important that we also tell the Israelis they've got to be a bit more moderate than they have been. Under the circumstances, with that kind of a leadership, I think the U.S. could do a lot. But with a Palestinian leadership that is not much more or less than Arafat was, I don't personally see how we can be of any use.

WOODRUFF: That's a pretty discouraging outlook, isn't it?

EAGLEBURGER: I'm not saying we shouldn't try.

WOODRUFF: Because one wonders what incentive -- one wonders what incentive there is for the Palestinians to come up with a more moderate...

EAGLEBURGER: Well, the incentive for the Palestinians is to choose a leadership that can do business.

Again, I come back to saying that, in the last six months, as you will recall, of the Clinton administration, Arafat was offered the best deal in the world, the best deal he would ever, ever be possible -- it would be possible for him to get, and, in the end, he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it for a number of reasons, I think, one of which was, he wasn't sure he'd be shot in the back of the head by those who didn't want it done.

Secondly, I suspect he recognized he couldn't run a country anyway, if he ever got one. So there were a number of reasons. Some of them I think would take a psychiatrist to answer. But there were a number of reasons that he couldn't cut the deal.

Now, if he's not willing -- wasn't willing to do it, and you get somebody in there who is also a hard-liner, I'm not at all sure I can see that there will be much change. And under those circumstances, the U.S. can yell and scream and stamp its foot, but we can't force the Palestinians to cut a deal.

WOODRUFF: Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, with some pretty sobering words, thank you very much.

EAGLEBURGER: Sorry. Sorry.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

EAGLEBURGER: OK.

WOODRUFF: Well, we only ask to you tell us what you think. We appreciate it.

EAGLEBURGER: OK. Right.

WOODRUFF: Thank you.

And honoring America's veterans this day -- just ahead, a report on Veterans Day ceremonies, including Bruce Morton's essay on why it's about the warriors, not the wars they fight.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: There were solemn ceremonies today to honor the nation's veterans, including troops currently fighting in Iraq. President Bush marked the day by laying a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery. He said America owes veterans a debt of gratitude.

Now our Bruce Morton with his reflections on Veterans Day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's Veterans Day now, meant to honor all warriors who fought in all our wars. But this date used to be Armistice Day, marking the time, the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, when the guns fell silent and weary men stumbled out from bloody trenches and World War I was over.

It was very bloody. No one bombed cities and killed civilians, but the men in the trenches, draftees mostly, died by the hundreds of thousands to gain or lose a few yards of ground in a cause few, if any, understood.

Wilfred Owen, a British poet who died in the war, wrote that: "If those who weren't there knew what it was like, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for some desperate glory the old lie, dolce et decorum est pro patria mori. It is sweet and proper, the Latin means, to die for your country.

But it wasn't. The war produced the Versailles peace treaty,which led pretty directly to World War II, not much sweet and proper in that. World War II itself was different. Most Americans thought it was a good war. Bill Mauldin, its most famous cartoonist, said, well, you had to kill Hitler.

Korea. President Harry Truman was bitterly criticized for that. Vietnam, draft aged young people stood outside Lyndon Johnson's White House chanting, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?" Americans have always understood the difference between supporting the warriors and supporting the war. Still, that Vietnam bitterness lingers. Some veterans criticized John Kerry for opposing the war after fighting in it.

This time, President Bush wants to defeat terror and spread democracy. Most Americans supported going into Afghanistan to get al Qaeda, but many opposed the invasion of Iraq and it's not clear yet how successful the effort to implant democracy there will be. Departing Attorney General John Ashcroft wrote the president: "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." But he probably should have added so far.

The terrorists haven't quit, and that fight surely is waged one day at a time. So this is a day to honor the warriors. Never mind what history makes of the causes in which they fought.

Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And we honor America's veterans.

Democrats lost ground in Congress in last week's elections. So how do they regroup? I asked that question to Nancy Pelosi. My conversation with the House minority leader when we come back.

Plus, do questions still linger from the vote count in Ohio? Some lawyers from the Kerry campaign are curious. We'll tell you why. (STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: We'll have more INSIDE POLITICS in just a moment, but first a quick check of what is happening now in the news.

The body of Yasser Arafat is en route to Cairo, Egypt, where dignitaries from around the world will gather for a military funeral tomorrow. The Palestinian leader died early today in a Paris hospital. Former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas has been chosen to replace Arafat as head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

A top U.S. Marine general in Iraq says operations in Falluja are, in his words, ahead of schedule. He says troops are now going to building to building in an effort to capture weapons supplies. Officials say that so far 18 U.S. troops and five Iraqi soldiers have been killed in the offensive. At least 178 Americans wounded.

ABC affiliates in at least eight states will opt out of the network's airing of the World War II film "Saving Private Ryan" tonight because they say they fear FCC repercussions. The film depicts several violent battle scenes and uses graphic language. Regulators have declined to say in advance whether the film would violate indecency rules.

The second half-hour of INSIDE POLITICS begins right now.

A Supreme battle? If a vacancy occurs on the high court, how fierce a confirmation fight will the president have on his hands?

Welcome back to INSIDE POLITICS. We'll go in-depth on a possible Supreme Court opening in just a few minutes.

But first, Congress is preparing for a post-election session to consider intelligence reforms. But Democrats already are thinking about next year. When January arrives, they will be even more of a minority on Capitol Hill, having lost four Senate seats and, as you can see here, at least two seats in the House, with three more still undecided.

Just a little while ago I spoke with the House Minority leader, Nancy Pelosi. She's on record as saying she thought her party would perform better on Election Day. I asked her what went wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA) MINORITY LEADER: Yes, we did think we would do better. In fact, I was absolutely certain that we would have a Democratic president of the United States. I'm still getting over that. But I congratulate President Bush and look forward to working with him.

It was a difficult terrain for us. As I say to my colleagues, the Republicans "altared" the political terrain, a-l-t-a-r-e-d, and that made a bigger challenge for us out there.

As the red states got more redder, it became more difficult for us to -- to win some of the races we had hoped to. But we were proud of our victories.

We held most of our Democratic seats. We only lost one Democratic seat outside of Texas, and I know that's a big "outside."

We won in upstate New York. We won in Georgia. We won in Colorado. We took out, politically speaking, the longest serving Republican in the Congress, Phil Crane, with Melissa Bean in Illinois. She ran a terrific race.

Chet Edwards was elected in Texas. The president's congressman, in his own district, in the president's own district of Crawford, Texas, Chet Edwards, a Democrat, was reelected to Congress.

WOODRUFF: So are the Democrats weaker than they were before?

PELOSI: We went after some incumbents. Our candidates did well. Many of them stand ready to go again.

We'd have an easier time next time because we don't have to defend the five seats in Texas. Hopefully they will be redistricting there and that will be easier for us. But whether it is or not, we'll have plenty of opportunity in the rest of the country without having to be weighted down in taxes. There's absolutely no question that Tom DeLay's strategy in Texas to illegally redistrict -- reapportion the state cost us six seats.

WOODRUFF: But let me just ask you this, is it smarter now for Democrats to work with President Bush on some issues, or to stand your ground?

PELOSI: Well, I think there has to be both. First of all, we always have a responsibility to the public to find our common ground with Republicans and with the president. That's what we are sent here to do. That's what the public expects and deserves. But where we don't find our common ground, they also expect us to stand our ground.

And so people hear about all the fights that we have here, but what we set out to do is get a job done for the American people. But the issues of jobs, health care, education, safe neighborhoods, a safe environment, how we protect and defend the American people, accountability on the budget, these are areas where there's disagreement, and we must have that legitimate debate.

WOODRUFF: Well, now we are being told that the president's -- one of his main priorities next year is going to be reforming, overhauling Social Security, letting younger workers have the option of putting their money, their retirement money into personal, private investment accounts. Are Democrats going to have to go along with that, or do you have a better plan?

PELOSI: No, it's not a question of having a better plan. A better plan would be for Democrats and Republicans together to go to the table with no preconditions and to say, how do we ensure that Social Security will be there for a future generation, and seniors coming up the age pipeline?

We -- the idea that the younger generation would invest their money, they can do that. That is called an add-on. But the safety net of Social Security should be there. And again, with no preconditions, we should go to the table, make sure that Social Security is secure.

When we had the prospect of a giant surplus, as we did coming out of the Clinton administration, Social Security was less in jeopardy. That's not there now, and the proposal that the president is making will cost about $2 trillion over the next 20 years.

That's extremely expensive. It will have to necessitate cutting benefits.

So -- but as far as Social Security reform, so-called reform is concerned, let's get together, let's work on it, make sure that the safety net is there, and talk about how we can increase savings. We're all for that.

WOODRUFF: What was your sense of the meeting with John Kerry, I think it was Tuesday or Monday? I've lost track of days now. Today is Thursday. The day that you met with Senator Kerry, what came across to you from him in that meeting?

PELOSI: Well, in our meeting with Senator Kerry, what came across was the confidence of a person who had proudly carried the banner of the Democrats in this past election, a man who had received 55 million votes and knew that there was strong support in our country for expanding access to health care, reducing dependence on foreign oil, having a jobs initiative that would expand opportunity for all Americans. The list goes on and on.

So it was -- he came in as a person of confidence. We received him with great pride for the job that he did in the race for president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

Well, we have more news about the Democratic Party and who will help to plot its strategy. That's leading the headlines in our "Campaign News Daily."

You can add the name of Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack to the list of potential candidates to lead the Democratic National Committee. A spokesman for Vilsack says the governor would consider running if by doing so he could preserve the first in the nation's status of the Iowa caucuses and also provide "a stronger message for the DNC."

Independent candidate Ralph Nader says the presidential race is not over because every vote still has not been counted. Nader wants a nationwide audit of Election Day problems. In today's "Hartford Courant," he also warns of a "constitutional crime."

Nader has already requested a full recount in New Hampshire. And he accuses John Kerry of going back on his promise that every vote would be counted.

The Kerry campaign is not calling for a recount anywhere, but campaign lawyers are gathering information about voting irregularities in Ohio. A campaign attorney calls the effort a "fact-finding mission."

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton excited a crowd at Tufts University last night in Boston with the mere mention of a woman running for president. About 5,000 people showed up to hear Senator Clinton, who praised the courage of a woman who recently ran for president in Afghanistan. The crowd erupted in cheers as Senator Clinton described the woman's campaign as a "remarkable feat" that she says puts Afghanistan's women ahead of America's women.

Well, we've all seen maps of the United States, which these days show a sea of red, signifying areas won by Bush. And much smaller patches of blue signifying areas won by John Kerry. So if red really dominates America, why was the election so close? Well, you could say when it comes to maps, at least, it depends on how you look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF (voice-over): This is your country, red, almost from sea to shining sea. Red in the North, red in the South. Huge swathes of red in the middle.

Enough to give any Democrat the blues. Right? Well, maybe not. Here's why.

What the red states have is a whole lot of land. But the blue states have a whole lot of people. And in electoral politics, people have the power.

Let's go back to our map and tweak it, like three professors at the University of Michigan have done. This is your country, too, in cartogram form. The size of the states has been adjusted to reflect the size of their populations. California's not so slim anymore, and America's not so red.

The new map gives a better picture of why the popular vote's been so close of late. Let's look at it another way.

Here we see the Republican and Democratic counties. Again, lots of red. Now, here's the cartogram as counties are adjusted for population. A swirling nation.

But get this: red and blue is not always black and white. The University of Michigan folks point out many red counties are barely red. In other words, they have a slim Republican majority. So they're more purplish, really.

See? Pretty cool, huh? Wait. Here comes the cartogram. Purple haze, electoral map for the Jimi Hendrix in all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And we invite your version of the map of the United States. We're welcoming all suggestions. And our thanks to those scientists, political scientists at the University of Michigan.

Well, President Bush could have a historic chance to remake the U.S. Supreme Court. Up next, our Bob Franken profiles a potential Bush nominee and looks ahead to the confirmation battles that loom on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: With several members of the Supreme Court facing health-related problems, some court watchers predict that President Bush will name at least one, and maybe more new justices. CNN's Bob Franken profiles a prominent figure in conservative legal circles who is often mentioned as a potential nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Bush solicitor General Theodore Olson is well aware he's being mentioned as a possible nominee for chief justice.

THEODORE OLSON, FMR. SOLICITOR GENERAL: They're using my name to scare (INAUDIBLE).

FRANKEN: Olson wishes the current chief justice, William Rehnquist, a speedy recovery, and is quick to say there is no opening on the court. But if there is one...

OLSON: I don't think about things like that. I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

FRANKEN: As Olson made clear, though, speaking for the conservative legal organization, The Federalist Society, he's given it a lot of thought.

OLSON: There may soon be a vacancy for the president to fill, perhaps two or three on the Supreme Court of the United States. The opportunity to change our cultural and legal landscape for a generation may therefore be a part of the president's victory last week.

FRANKEN: Olson organized the Bush side before the Supreme Court in Bush versus Gore. After his wife, Barbara Olson, was killed on 9/11 in the hijacked plane that crashed into the Pentagon, he became as solicitor general a principle legal advocate of the administration's arguments that the president had near unlimited power to conduct the war on terror and detain enemy combatants. Any nominee with strong conservative credentials can expect a tough fight in the Senate. NAN ARON, PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR JUSTICE: We don't want an individual who comes to the court with views that would essentially turn back the clock for all Americans.

OLSON: Make no mistake about it, any attempted new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: A warning perhaps that any effort by the president to avoid a bitter fight by choosing a consensus nominee for the Supreme Court would probably be futile -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: So Bob, how much resistance would Ted Olson face if he were named?

FRANKEN: Well, we would face quite a bit because he has a conservative track record. And there are going to be groups that describe themselves as progressive, who are going to say that his record is one that they can't accept.

However, he is a longtime established institution in Washington. He is an affable person who gets along well with people on the other side. And there could be a feeling this would be somebody who is conservative, pleasing the conservatives, that the Democrats and progressives might swallow and support.

WOODRUFF: OK. Bob Franken on the story. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

A familiar voice in the debate over faith and values is reviving his political organization. The Reverend Jerry Falwell has launched the "Faith and Values Coalition," which he describes as a "21st century resurrection of the moral majority." Falwell will serve as chairman of the group, which is designed, we are told, to encourage evangelical voters to remain active in the political process.

The world is preparing to bid a final farewell to Yasser Arafat. Will the death of the longtime Palestinian leader usher in an new era in Arab-Israeli relations? We'll talk about the prospects for peace with Middle East experts after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: More now on the death of Yasser Arafat and what it may mean for the future of Arab-Israeli relations. For some perspective, we're joined by Ed Djerejian. He is a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, and now he's the director of Rice University's James Baker Institute for Public Policy.

Ambassador Djerejian, thank you for joining us. In the short run, what effect will the death of Yasser Arafat have?

EDWARD DJEREJIAN, DIRECTOR, BAKER INSTITUTE, RICE UNIVERSITY: Well, in the short run, there will be a great deal of popular emotions and feelings since he was the symbolic leader of the Palestinian cause, resistance, nationalism. But in the near term, and in the longer term, this is a moment of incredibly important transition for the Palestinian people and their institutions for an elected leadership that might be able to do things that Arafat was not able to do.

WOODRUFF: In what way? I mean, is it -- they've already said who the next leader will be taking his place. So what are the decisions to be made that will have a bearing down the road?

DJEREJIAN: Well, the first decisions that have to be made, Judy, is that the new leadership has to reestablish public order, be able to control the territories, assure that civil life continues in an orderly manner. And then start taking on the key issues, economic, social, and most important, in terms of the future of the Palestinian people, negotiations with Israel.

WOODRUFF: Do you believe that the next leader of the Palestinians will be better able to control the violent elements in -- in that society, the suicide bombers, better able than Yasser Arafat was?

DJEREJIAN: That's an important question. We don't know the answer to that.

However, if there is a collective effort on the part of the major parties and groups within the Palestinian movement, and that's obviously Fatah, the PLO, and then reaching out to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, to perhaps make some sort of political opening to them, as has been done in countries like Jordan and Morocco with some success, to the more extremist parties within their countries, there may be some hope. But I think the crunch point is going to come when some very important decisions have to be made by the new leadership to control the security environment.

Which means that some groups may be asked to give up weapons, to end violence, to stop suicide attempts and suicide operations. That's when -- that will be a moment of reckoning to see how successful any new leadership will be.

WOODRUFF: Why is that a crunch point?

DJEREJIAN: Well, because if these groups both, if they do not agree to do that, there can be confrontations between the new leadership and these groups, which could devolve into an unstable situation. But I don't think -- that would be a worst-case analysis.

I really do think that the Palestinians now will try to build their institutions. Of all the people in the Arab world, Judy, I really feel that the Palestinians have an inherent ability to start building democratic institutions. And they may very well start doing that.

WOODRUFF: There's a lot of talk right now. President Bush himself talked about this as a -- as a potential great opportunity for there to be some movement toward peace in the Middle East. But are you suggesting that, unless the Palestinians, in so many words, "get their act together," that it's going to be difficult for anyone else to effect the move toward peace in that part of the world?

DJEREJIAN: Yes. What I'm saying is that the new leadership has to control its security environment in the West Bank and in Gaza. That's a very important first step.

Without public security on the ground, it's going to be very difficult to move forward politically, economically, socially, all of these important objectives that need to be met for the Palestinian people. And then to get to the point where the opportunity is with Sharon's unilateral disengagement from Gaza, if that can be now done as a trilateral consultant process between the Israelis, the Palestinians and third parties, basically the United States, the quartet, and that could be successfully accomplished, it could become a major step toward the third stage of the roadmap and final status negotiations.

This should be the goal. This, in my eyes, is the goal. But it means that the Palestinian Authority, the new leadership has to be able to control its environment.

WOODRUFF: The perspective of Ed Djerejian, former ambassador to Israel. Now with the James Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University. We thank you very much.

DJEREJIAN: Thank you, Judy.

WOODRUFF: It's good to talk to you.

DJEREJIAN: Good to be with you.

WOODRUFF: Thanks again.

Well, the Democrats are trying to carry on after John Kerry's defeat, but who will lead them out of the wilderness? Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan will chew on that question.

And whether Republicans really have it al together after President Bush's election win. That's ahead on INSIDE POLITICS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: It is just before 4:00 in the East. And as the markets get set to close on Wall Street, I'm joined by Lou Dobbs in New York for "The Dobbs Report."

Hi, Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Hi, Judy.

The post-election rally, the Bush rally, if you will, continues. The Dow Jones industrials today moving higher and into positive territory for the year.

As the final trades are now being counted at this hour, the Dow Jones industrials up just about 90 points, and sending about 2000 -- 10000, rather, 10,475. That's just slightly higher than where it all began back in January. The Nasdaq adding a little more than one percent on the day.

Oil prices falling more than $1, resuming a two-week slide that's cut 15 percent from the recent records. Rising inventories are easing concerns over the supplies of winter and home heating oil.

New York Stock Exchange regulators say they've launched an investigation into so-called late trading at the Exchange. That occurs when firms send in trades in the last seconds of the day, trying possibly to manipulate the final prices at the bell.

Microsoft has launched its own web search engine to compete with both Google and Yahoo! The new search service scans some 5 billion pages on the web, but Google is ready for a fight. In response, the company says it's nearly doubling the size of its search index up to more than 8 million web pages so the fight is on.

And Blockbuster trying to buy out its main rival in video rentals, Hollywood Entertainment, offering $700 million for that Hollywood Video chain. The combined company would control nearly half the movie rental market in the country.

Controversy over ABC's decision to run "Saving Private Ryan" in honor of Veterans Day. More than 20 affiliates are refusing to air the war drama. They are concerned the Oscar-winning film's violence and crude language would draw sanctions from the FCC. The movie already has aired on the network profanity and all back in 2001 and in 2002. And we'll have much more on this story on CNN here at 6:00 p.m. Eastern on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT." With the FCC crackdown on broadcasting indecency, we take a look at why ABC would even bother to run such a controversial movie in prime time.

Also on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" we take a look at the prospects for peace in the Middle East following the death of Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat Arafat. The PLO's legal adviser Diana Buttu is my guest.

And former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations Dore Gold will be here. He is the author of a new book accusing the United Nations of fueling and sustaining global chaos. "The Tower of Babel," the title of the book.

And Florida's Senator-Elect Mel Martinez will join me. We'll be talking about the Bush agenda and his goals for the U.S. Senate.

That's it from New York. Now back to Judy Woodruff in Washington -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Lou, the story you're reporting on, this controversy over the airing of "Saving Private Ryan" on these ABC affiliates, what is really going on there, do you think?

DOBBS: The question is as you put it. What is going on? Because three broadcast groups, Citadel, Belo, and Scripps have all decided not to air this movie in prime time because they're afraid of fines from the FCC. But it's as you suggest, entirely possible that something else is at work here. A conflict of values and perhaps an engagement on this issue, this cultural battle that may be well under way given the outcome of the election. We'll be reporting on that tonight.

WOODRUFF: We will be watching. 6:00 Eastern. Lou, thank you very much. And INSIDE POLITICS continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: He's being revered as a Palestinian hero and reviled as a terrorist. But will Yasser Arafat's death open diplomatic doors in the search for Middle East peace?

DAVID MAKOVSKY, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: I think the president and the Bush administration will be tested these next six to nine months.

ANNOUNCER: They were united as never before during the campaign but with the election over are cracks appearing in the Democratic party? Now, live from Washington, JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. The first leg of Yasser Arafat's final journey home is now over. The plane carrying the Palestinian leader's body landed just moments ago in Cairo. These are live pictures coming into CNN. Egyptian officials will be holding a military funeral for Arafat before he is buried in the West Bank. Arafat's death in Paris early this morning at age 75 possibly could be a turning point in the long search for peace in the Middle East.

Marking Arafat's death President Bush said that he hopes the future will bring peace for the Palestinian people but achieving that goal is a formidable challenge, we know. Here is our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Yasser Arafat's death presents a test for President Bush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president and the Bush administration will be tested in these next six to nine months.

SCHNEIDER: What is required is caution, nuance. Makovski says the United States has to encourage a more moderate Palestinian leadership without embracing it too tightly and discrediting it.

ARI SHAVIT, HA'ARETZ: These gestures have to be very well calculated so they're not interpreted as forgiveness for terror and willing to accept terror. But really as a kind of reaching out to the Palestinian people.

SCHNEIDER: The same more pragmatic Palestinians were in power last year but nothing came of it in part because Arafat was still in control.

MAKOVSKY: Nobody did enough during that very brief Ramallah spring of 130 days and let's try to ensure that this opportunity is not missed.

SCHNEIDER: President Clinton knows something about missed opportunities in the Middle East and about Arafat's role in creating them.

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made a peace proposal and Mr. Arafat turned it down, Prime Minister Barak of Israel took it, a year and a half later Arafat said he wanted it and by then he had an Israeli government that wouldn't give it to him.

SCHNEIDER: President Bush often thinks in absolute terms. Good and evil. Right and wrong.

MAKOVSKY: I think we have to avoid falling into what I call an all or nothing trap which is belief that here's the moment. Tomorrow morning we are going to solve a century-old conflict called the Arab- Israeli conflict.

SCHNEIDER: What is required is an unBush-like subtlety and compromise. That's what Israelis and Palestinians are demonstrating right now over of all things the issue of where Arafat will be buried.

SHAVIT: The Israelis wanted at first to have Mr. Arafat buried in Gaza. The Palestinians wanted him to be buried in Jerusalem. The fact that both sides really gave up on their original position and did not make a fuss, did not get into some sort of conflict is really part of this new attempt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: The Israeli statesman Abba Eban once said, "the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

Well, now there is a new opportunity just as President Bush's partner in war, British Prime Minister Tony Blair is arriving in Washington and Blair would like nothing more than to be Bush's partner in peace -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: That may be but just about an hour ago I interviewed former secretary of state Lawrence Eagleburger on the program and he said in effect that if the Palestinians choose another hardline leader like Yasser Arafat, he said that there is really little or nothing the United States can do to move the process forward.

SCHNEIDER: That is absolutely true. That would bear out Abba Eban's statement. Again, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

WOODRUFF: All right. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.

Democrats are facing a different kind of test right now as they struggle to find their footing after their election day losses. Coming up will division and second guessing keep them from getting their act together? We'll have a report on the latest infighting.

And then we'll let Donna Brazile and Bay Buchanan have at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: These are live pictures from Cairo, Egypt, coming into CNN. This is the plane that carried the body of Yasser Arafat home, in effect. He was born in Cairo in 1929. His body is being brought back to that city where there will be a funeral this Friday. After that he'll be flown to the occupied territories and buried in Ramallah.

This is his widow, Suha Arafat, coming off of the plane. Again, the plane landed just moments ago in Cairo. The funeral services -- we are told that the body of Yasser Arafat is going to be taken off the plane and transported to a military hospital. And then, services are planned in Cairo for some time between around 4:00 a.m. Eastern time, 11:00 a.m. local time on Friday.

Then, he will be flown -- the body will be flown to Ramallah where burial is scheduled to take place also Friday between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. local time, between 7:00 and 8:00 a.m. Eastern time on Friday.

Suha Arafat with -- arriving in Cairo with the body of her late husband Yasser Arafat.

Well, as you saw earlier on INSIDE POLITICS, Democrats such as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi are trying to put the best face on their Election Day losses. But in-fighting over who's to blame and what happens now seems to be spilling out in public, or at least in newspapers and during party postmortems.

Here now, CNN's Jennifer Michael.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER MICHAEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats presented a united front during the presidential campaign, but now splinters are showing and all those pointing fingers and wringing hands. Under the microscope, reported rifts that plagued the Kerry campaign.

As Arianna Huffington tells it in "The Los Angeles Times," Bob Shrum and campaign late-comers from the Clinton era successfully pushed their once-winning, "It's the economy, stupid!" theme, only to lose the election.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want an economy where Americans aren't just working for the economy, the economy is working for Americans.

MICHAEL: A rival camp within the campaign dubbed the "Truth and Trust Team" reportedly remains bitter that Iraq got sidelined as Kerry's dominant issue. In a variety of op-eds and articles, recriminations are flying, often with an eye toward saving face and salvaging reputations. Many other Democrats prefer to look forward, but they do so with high anxiety.

DOUG SOSNIK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: We're completely out of power right now. We are the opposition party.

MICHAEL: Amid the soul searching over how to get party back on track, yet another centrist Democratic group has been formed. This one, called "Third Way," hopes to wield influence through moderate Senate Democrats, such as Evan Bayh, Thomas Carper, Mary Landrieu, and Blanche Lincoln.

One of their goals -- to promote a third way on the moral values issues that were so key to voters this year.

SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN (D), ARKANSAS: Whatever that value is, they want to know where it comes from, not necessarily just that it is a way to get one step further in an elected position.

MICHAEL: Third Way organizers are quoted as saying they will have their own niche in the alphabet soup of centrist Democratic organizations, including the DLC, PPI, and NDN.

But as they lick their wounds, Democrats may risk dividing themselves into too many factions in their quest to get it together before the next election. And a possible tussle over who will take over leadership of the Democratic National Committee, a liberal or a moderate, could further expose party splinters.

Jennifer Michael, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And by the way, John Kerry's close friend and his former brother-in-law, David Thorne, will be the guest here on INSIDE POLITICS tomorrow. He reportedly was part of the so-called Truth and Trust Team, urging Kerry to emphasize the war in Iraq during the campaign. Again, he'll be a guest on our program tomorrow.

I want to take you back to live pictures coming into CNN from Cairo. We are told, yes, this is the body of Yasser Arafat being carried from the plane that brought him from Paris to Cairo, where a funeral will take place early tomorrow.

Suha Arafat, the widow of the late Palestinian leader, flew with her husband's body. And she is part of a small group gathered there at the airport in Cairo, watching as he is carried to a waiting vehicle. And from there, he'll be taken to -- the body will be taken to a military hospital.

CNN's Cairo Bureau Chief Ben Wedeman joins us now by telephone -- Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Judy. Well, what we see here is, yes, we're seeing Suha Arafat at the Cairo International Airport. What is interesting is that Yasser Arafat is returning here to his birthplace. He was born in Cairo in 1929. His father was a Palestinian businessman from Gaza who moved from Palestine -- which at the time was considered something of a backwater -- to Cairo, which obviously is the commercial center for the entire region.

Yasser Arafat spent many years of his youth here. He studied at the Cairo University where he studied engineering. He spoke, interestingly enough, Arabic with an Egyptian accent.

So, Cairo very much an important city for Yasser Arafat, and one where, as we have seen over the last few days, he has many connections. In fact, yesterday we went to his old neighborhood where some people still remembered him as a young revolutionary -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Ben, we know that the military funeral will be taking place tomorrow morning near -- we're told near Cairo's airport. There are three full days of official mourning in Egypt.

How are the people there receiving this? Is it the subject of much conversation?

WEDEMAN: It certainly is, Judy. Yasser Arafat was a man who had a certain amount of street popularity, credibility among ordinary Egyptians. They saw him at the end of his life as something of a tragic figure. He was often described as a prisoner of Ramallah. Somebody who, unlike many Arab leaders, as a matter of fact, did not live a sumptuous life in villas and palaces. Somebody who clearly did not spend a lot of money on himself -- although, we have heard so many stories of corruption. But the money that (INAUDIBLE) through him, it appears went really to maintain the loyalty of those around him.

So, Yasser Arafat, a popular figure. Something of a folk hero, as a matter of fact, among Egyptians. And what is interesting, Judy, is the funeral is not going be open to the public. It is by invitation only. This evening, in fact, we heard an Egyptian official from the Ministry of the Interior making the point on Egyptian television that the funeral is not open to the public. Some analysts suggesting that Arab leaders don't want a display of affection and love for somebody who might hurt eclipse their own often kind of state-sponsored image in the region -- Judy?

WOODRUFF: Ben Wedeman, CNN's Cairo bureau chief.

We are watching the remains of Yasser Arafat, the body brought home to Cairo, the city of his birth 75 years ago. He died early this morning in Paris. And he has just been brought to Cairo. The funeral, tomorrow morning. Burial, later tomorrow in Ramallah in the West Bank.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: With me now, former Gore campaign manager Donna Brazile, and Bay Buchanan, president of American Cause. So much to talk about, so little time. Let's get right to it.

Donna, the fingers are already pointing frantically from inside the former John Kerry campaign. An article in "The L.A. Times" today saying that David Thorne, who is very close to John Kerry, and others, are really not happy with people like Bob Shrum and James Carville, who were out there saying John Kerry should have focused on the economy. He says he should have focused on Iraq.

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: There's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking. But the fact is that John Kerry lost by 75,000 votes. Had 75,000 went in the other direction, he would've won Ohio. They shouldn't just focus on what John Kerry did wrong but perhaps look at the larger issue of how to go about changing the party without finger-pointing and getting to second-guessing.

I learned a valuable lesson four years ago after the Gore campaign. That is, it proves nothing to go around and criticize individuals. What needs to happen now is somebody needs to take a look at what happened and then where do we go from here.

BAY BUCHANAN, PRES., AMERICAN CAUSE: You know, it is clear what happened. It is very simple. They had all the money. They had the media working with them. They had Hollywood. They had all of these paid consultants trying to beat George W. Bush and he beat them.

George W. Bush, with everything thrown at him, took them all on and he beat them. That's what they should focus on is how George W. Bush, the man from Crawford, Texas, could beat them with all that they had going for them.

WOODRUFF: So you're saying even if John Kerry had been talking more about Iraq, it wouldn't have made any difference?

BUCHANAN: He did talk about Iraq. If I remember correctly, the last 10 days, you all were working on that 385...

WOODRUFF: We were.

BUCHANAN: You know, pounding it out there. They were moving around the message a little bit, left and right, trying to figure out the right message. They couldn't beat George W. Bush, that's the bottom line.

BRAZILE: But they -- first of all, George Bush could have been beaten and it is too bad that John Kerry didn't beat him this time around. But the truth of the matter is that the party has to begin the rebuilding process. And part of rebuilding is to analyze what happened.

But I think pointing fingers at individuals as opposed to looking at overall how well the party did against a very strong entrenched incumbent president, a wartime president, I think, would be a more wiser step than just fighting among ourselves.

BUCHANAN: There is no question, they have got to figure out why 3.5 million Americans more voted for Bush than John Kerry. BRAZILE: We're still counting the votes, Bay.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: I know. You guys do that for years.

(CROSSTALK)

WOODRUFF: Bay, let me ask you about a comment made in the last few days by a Republican consultant, Arthur Finkelstein, talking to some press in Israel. And I'm just quoting here. He said: "The political center," he said, "has disappeared, the Republican Party has become the party of the Christian right more so than in any other period in modern history."

He goes on to basically say that if you're pro-life, you're fine in the Republican Party. You're going to be able to get the nomination. But if you're pro-choice, forget it. And he specifically talks about George Pataki.

BUCHANAN: Mr. Finkelstein is an extremely talented consultant. He's also a moderate Republican, always has been. As talented as he is, he knows as well as I do that this has always been the case, always in Republican primaries, anyone who is pro-choice, us pro- lifers are looking out for them. We work those primaries and we always deliver a pro-life nominee.

BRAZILE: Bay, whatever happened to the big tent? It's a narrow door to get through the Republican nominating process. Look, I think Arthur Finkelstein, who, in many ways, is the architect of some of the divisive politics of the Republican Party, is speaking truth. The problem is that the moderate Republicans have no place to go, so hopefully some of them will just flip the script and come and join those moderate Democrats and we can have a majority again.

BUCHANAN: Us conservatives had felt we had nowhere else to go for a couple of years, now we've delivered the White House and a number of those Senate seats right back to the Republicans.

WOODRUFF: But in essence what he's saying is that, you know, whether it is Rudy Giuliani, who appears to be very interested in running, George Pataki and others might as well forget it.

BUCHANAN: No. They have as much opportunity to run as our pro- life leaders. And let them all run and let's see who is going to win.

WOODRUFF: But you're saying they don't have a chance.

BUCHANAN: But I'm telling you that those pro-lifers out there are the heart and soul of our party. They're the hardest workers. And they work those primaries. They know how to. And they are going to make certain it is a pro-life president.

BRAZILE: There's a home in the Democratic Party for the pro- life, pro-choice and everyone else in between. The fact is, Judy, is that... BUCHANAN: Yes, they have got empty rooms over there

BRAZILE: They have a couple of bodies in a couple of those rooms. But the fact is is that the Republican Party now has a large segment of its population that has no place to call home.

BUCHANAN: That is just so false. This party -- the Republican Party has always reached out. We have all kinds of people in that party. But the pro-lifers and those who really believe strongly in social agenda have said, look, you put our issues on the back burner for way too long. We came forward and we basically put the man back in the White House.

WOODRUFF: But the extension of his point is that if the party continues in this direction, it's going to get smaller because...

BUCHANAN: Well, we got bigger, Judy, because we have a pro-life strong leader who is solid on the social issues. And George W. Bush and the party has grown. We became -- we had more people vote this time than ever before. It has been good for the party. So now for moderates who say, oh my gosh, his client, Pataki, is going to have a much tougher time, that's the way it is. We have spoken out. We're now a loud voice. We're no longer timid in our party.

BRAZILE: And from the mouth of God...

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: Bay Buchanan has spoken, Donna Brazile has spoken. And we're glad for them. Thank you both. We appreciate it.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

BUCHANAN: Good to be with you.

WOODRUFF: INSIDE POLITICS will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: That's it for this INSIDE POLITICS on November 11. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thank you for joining us. "CROSSFIRE" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com