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Top Aide: Trump "Evolving" After Playing a Part; What Will Sanders Do After Tuesday?; Running Mate Guessing Games Begin. Aired 8- 9a ET

Aired April 24, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[08:00:42] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Donald Trump says not to worry.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At some point, I'm going to be so presidential that you people will be so bored.

KING: But his new campaign manager tries to explain away, suggesting Trump is just acting.

PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Nowhere was he talking about there being a different Donald Trump.

KING: The GOP reality's show next big stage could be a chaotic convention.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: You need a majority. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

KING: Plus, Hillary Clinton looks for the knockout punch.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tuesday is a great opportunity to start us on the path to the White House.

KING: Five-state Super Tuesday is a defining test for Bernie Sanders.

INSIDE POLITICS, the biggest stories sourced by the best reporters, now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thanks for sharing your Sunday morning.

The last week of April includes a five-state Super Tuesday and three questions dominate.

Number one: Is Donald Trump already at odds with his new top campaign hand or all just a calculated good cop/bad cop routine

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: You know, being presidential is easy, much easier than what I have to do. Here I have to rant and rave. I have to keep you people going otherwise you'll fall asleep on me, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Right. Question two, can the GOP establishment make peace or at least detente with the Trump campaign urging its supporters to complain the system is rigged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Majority rule is as American as apple pie and opening day. If no candidate reaches a majority of bound delegates during the primary process, we go to an open or a contested convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And question three, if Tuesday brings a knockout blow in the Democratic race, will Bernie Sanders acknowledge the math or sharpen the attacks in search of a May miracle?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On Tuesday, the people of Maryland will be able to say loudly and clearly that it is too late for establishment politics or establishment economics.

(CHEERS)

And on Tuesday, the people of Maryland can say it is time for a political revolution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Big week ahead. With to us share the reporting and their insights, Julie Pace of "The Associated Press", Dan Balz of "The Washington Post", CNN's Manu Raju, and Ashley Parker of "The New York Times."

Now, we knew from day one Donald Trump is a performer, a billionaire- businessman-turned-tabloid-celebrity-turned-reality-TV-star-turned- politician. Being provocative and unpredictable is part of Trump's appeal and a huge part of why many Republicans predict a 2016 disaster if Trump tops the GOP ticket.

Trump's new campaign chief traveled to a big Republican meeting this past week, trying to calm those concerns in a private briefing suggested a lot of Trump's bluster is just show business and that things are about to change. That meeting, of course, was secretly recorded.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) MANAFORT: When he's out on the stage, when he's talking about the kinds of things he's talking about on the stump, he's projecting an image that's for that purpose. The part he's playing is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting. The negatives will come down, the image is going to change.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: Now, that evolution campaign strategist Paul Manafort was promising the party leaders there would bring a more measure Trump, a more presidential Trump. But if we learned anything these past nine months, it is that Trump enjoys being Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So Lyin' Ted took a really nice meeting with the RNC, Republican National Committee, had took a really, really -- Rafael. Rafael, straight out of the hills of Canada, four years in Canada, was a Canadian citizen until 14, 15 months ago.

If I was presidential, first of all, I'd have a teleprompter. You ever see crooked Hillary Clinton? She walks it.

Good afternoon, Bridgeport. How are you? This is crooked Hillary Clinton. Then people start yawning, leaving, the whole thing is a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Five states vote Tuesday and Trump appears poised to win them all, including Connecticut, where he made clear Saturday he didn't appreciate the secret recording.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:05:02] TRUMP: So to show you how honorable the people in the room were, they taped these conversations. They didn't tell anybody, probably illegal. I wonder if it's legal. Maybe they have to go to jail but you know they tape things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Maybe they have to go to jail.

Ashley Parker, you spent a lot of time on the Trump campaign. Paul Manafort goes to these party meetings, Republican leaders are very, very nervous that a Trump-led ticket causes them to lose races for Congress, for House, for Senate, for governor, for dog catcher.

Paul Manafort says, don't worry, be calm, it's mostly an act, the evolution is coming, really?

ASHLEY PARKER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Right, exactly. I think we all remember even a couple weeks ago when Donald said, you know, there are two Donald Trumps and moments later the second Donald Trump said actually, there's only one Donald Trump. And so, I think there's one version of Trump that deeply worries the party and also what worries them is that uncertainty, right?

When Paul Manafort saying privately trust us, he's this calm presidential guy, and then Trump going out there and saying presidential, well you know, let's not get too presidential. You don't sort of want uncertainty in a commander in chief and that's a concern regardless of which Trump we get.

KING: So, did it work? Manafort goes into the private meeting. Dan, you know these people, you covered them for years. Lot of them know Paul from past campaigns.

When he goes in and says trust me, a lot of them are saying this guy is a serious player and looking at Trump and going back to their states, is my senator going to get washed out here, is my governor going to get washed out here? Did it work at least in the moment and then Trump defines it or is it good cop/bad cop?

DAN BALZ, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think -- I think they want to believe that this could happen, that he would become a more presidential-like candidate, and if you talked to people down there, I was there with a couple of my colleagues, you know, they're beginning to wrap themselves around the idea that he's probably going to be their nominee, but they're not happy about that, and they're not convinced that he's going to be good for the party, and so, it's an odd thing. It's like we may have to make peace with this, but it's going to be a very uneasy peace.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: And, John, the problem for Trump is that he's trying to make the case to the party establishment to make them feel OK that he won't upset them and hurt their ticket race in the general election but still facing off with Ted Cruz, trying to attack him for not being consistent on core conservative positions and Paul Manafort says something like this, it just reinforces those attacks on which the Cruz campaign started to capitalize.

KING: Right. And Paul Manafort also said Trump wants peace with the party and Trump at every rally since secretly recorded system says it's a rigged system, the party is out to get me. But you raised an important point. So, Ted Cruz, this tape gets leaked and Ted Cruz said I told you so.

Donald Trump is a fraud, Ted Cruz wants you believe, that anything he says is just an act. You don't know what to believe. Cruz trying to make this case, yes, there are five states Tuesday but Cruz is more focused on Indiana in may because of the map. We'll get to the math and the map in a minute.

But listen to Ted Cruz saying, whenever Donald Trump speaks, don't believe it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: In the past 48 hours, Donald Trump's lobbyists have taken over his campaign and gone down and told Republican Party bosses that everything Donald said on the campaign is just a show. He doesn't believe any of it. He's not going to build a wall. He's not going to deport anyone. This is just a lie.

And I will say to the millions of Americans who are frustrated with politicians who are lying to them, Donald is telling us he's lying to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's the response would you expect. Here it is the campaign strategist says it's an evolution, he suggested a lot of it is just an act, Ted Cruz tries to seize on it, but does it matter to Trump voters?

JULIE PACE, AP WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think that when Trump gets back on stage and pushes back at this idea he's going to have a shift, he is trying to push back on what Cruz is saying there, so much of Trump's appeal with voters is the idea that he is authentic, that he maybe doesn't look presidential on the stage, but he's telling them the truth. He's telling them exactly what he believes.

And he knows that if he does suddenly moderate his policy positions if he suddenly isn't quite the showman that he is, he will lose some of his crowd and he equates that to losing voters. So, he's trying to walk a fine line he wants his staff appealing to Republican elites, big wigs in the party. But he knows that for regular voters, him being out there and being the showman he's been is really effective.

RAJU: Just to oppose to also that the two audiences that these two candidates if you want to add John Kasich too but particularly Cruz and Trump are playing for, playing for the base voters and folks who are upset with the party establishment, and the delegates at the convention who a lot of them are the party establishment. So, they need to win those delegates over if this goes to a second ballot. It's the challenge that Cruz and Trump have.

KING: Trump tried to explain this away in his rallies. Sure, my campaign guy goes into a private meeting says of course I'm different at a rally, provocative, trying to get you to stand up and cheer. This is a pep rally. That would are a serious conversation about states and about money and about targeting. Trump says it's no big deal and that it's Cruz making ado about nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLI)

[08:10:01] TRUMP: When I'm in a room talking, one way. When I'm out here talking to you people, I got to be different, right? I mean, I can say basically the same thing.

So, Cruz picks it up, Lyin' Ted, he goes, "Donald Trump is kidding everybody! He's different on the trail. And he said he's going to do things differently and not going to build a wall." What the hell does this have to do with the wall? Believe me I'm building the wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I think he wants to build the wall.

(LAUGHTER)

BALZ: The one thing you have to keep remembering about Donald Trump, is more than any other candidate in this race, he has kind of mastered the modern art of political communication or in some ways redefined it. He understands the social media age in the ways most other candidates don't. He knows what he's doing when talking before the big audiences.

I do think the question is whether Paul Manafort, who is an inside player can play an inside game at the same time Donald Trump is playing the outside game.

KING: Right, if Manafort's goal is to convince the party leadership and delegates don't turn your back on Donald Trump, even if you're not ready to commit today, keep an open mind to it, does Trump coming out and being as he was over the weekend hurt that cause?

PARKER: Well, the thing to remember about Trump, as Dan said, he gets more latitude than all of the other candidates so you have Ted Cruz trying to brand Donald Trump as a liar and disingenuous. But let's remember, Donald Trump is the one who is dubbed "Lyin' Ted", right? So, there's something tragically poignant about "Lyin' Ted" trying to convince America and Republicans that Donald Trump is the liar. It's a steep climb.

PACE: And I think one of the really important things to remember about the place we are in the campaign is that Donald Trump's best chance of becoming the Republican nominee is to do with it through the regular voting process. He needs to win in a bunch of states that vote on Tuesday, probably needs to win in Indiana and then in California.

If this does go to a convention, he's in a much more difficult position. So, whatever is working for him in terms of winning state is what he's going to stick with, because that's his best prospect of becoming the nominee.

KING: Great point in which to pause for a second, because up next, we map out the states just ahead and their place in the delegate chase.

First, though, politicians say the darnedest things, sometimes in German.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN: Would you accept the nomination?

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: No, Steven, I have said I do not want nor would I accept the Republican nomination.

COLBERT: Got it. So you're considering the nomination.

RYAN: No, I'm not.

COLBERT: OK, I'll give you some time to mull this one over.

PAUL: Let me say it in clear English. No.

COLBERT: OK, how about clear German?

PAUL: Nein.

COLBERT: Clear Russian?

PAUL: Niet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:58] KING: Welcome back.

You win a presidential nomination with delegates and you see Donald Trump, he's just shy of 850 in our CNN delegate count. That leaves him 389, 390 roughly shy of the 1,237 you need to clinch the Republican nomination.

Donald Trump all believe is poised for a big five-state sweep, win Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland go to the polls on Tuesday. Now, that could take 80, another 100, stretch it out for Donald Trump, leaves Ted Cruz back here.

Senator Cruz keeps saying he's the guy who will stop Trump. But as you can see, this part of the map hardly appears to be Cruz country.

But Cruz is organizing convention delegates, and even as he's poised for some big victories, Donald Trump isn't happy with that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have even more delegates than Cruz even though it's a crooked system they take him out to dinner, they send them to hotels. It's such a crooked system. It's disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Cruz gets shut out in New York. It looks like Donald Trump is going to win all five on Tuesday.

How important, Dan, are the margins in the sense if Trump can get another 80, maybe as many as 100 more delegates on Tuesday. I don't know if he can get to 1,237 by the time we're done in June 7th. But if he can get really close to 1,200 you have time between the end of the primaries and convention to go 54 delegates from Pennsylvania, for example, unbound. If Donald Trump wins with 50 plus he'll say you owe me votes. He got uncommitted delegates from places like Guam, and American Samoa, North Dakota. How big is Tuesday to convincing the party establishment the math is inexorably going his way?

BALZ: You know, it's very important, John. New York was very important because he broke the 60 percent barrier and Ted Cruz had a terrible night and that changed in an important way the kind of the psychology of this. It was maybe he is going to make it or come awfully close.

I don't know what that magic number is in terms of the threshold he's got to reach in order to, if he's short of 1,237 which people kind of say, well, he is going to get it, but a big day on Tuesday will be an important step forward for him in order to convince people that he's probably going to make it.

KING: Now, the anti-Trump people say if she shows up at the convention, with 1,236 they're going to stop him. I don't know if they can. But that's their line at the moment. If he doesn't have 1,237, we're going to stop him.

We all agree if he doesn't win on the first ballot, there's trouble for Trump, because Cruz locked up a lot of delegates pledged to Trump on the first ballot and will bolt if there's a second ballot.

Listen to the chairman. The meeting you're at in Hollywood, Florida, Chairman Reince Priebus, he has a tough job. At the beginning of the cycle, he told us, no question, Republicans will have a nominee by March. It didn't turn out that way.

And now, the question is will they have a nominee June 7th the last day of voting?

Listen carefully here, Reince Priebus says we might have an open convention but listen to what sneaks in here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRIEBUS: We are preparing for all possible scenarios. We might have a nominee by July or we might have a nominee through a balloting process at the convention.

The rules say you have to have 1,237 delegates to be the nominee.

[08:20:00] We aren't going to hand the nomination to anyone with a plurality, no matter how close they get to 1,237.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now it's interesting there, he says we may have a nominee by July, meaning he's acknowledging there that the primaries on June 7th, the convention before the ballots, we may have a whole new election between the end of the primaries until we get to the convention.

Donald Trump is out there saying it's a crooked system. If I have the most delegates, you should give me the nomination.

Reince Priebus was promising to be fair, but he was also being pretty clear there to Donald Trump -- no, you need 1,237, period.

PARKER: Yes, he was, although I again return to Donald Trump being an expert brander and what we've seen is he's sort of created the sense that even if I don't get to the magic number, which he probably won't, he may come close but will not get there, that he's created the sense if he doesn't get there and if doesn't get the nomination that would be subverting the will of the people undemocratic and that creates a huge problem for the Republican Party to try to take it away from him that way.

RAJU: The real challenge for Cruz particularly is that if he doesn't -- we're not expecting him to do well on Tuesday. I talked to Cruz official last night who said it's going to be a big night for Donald Trump, they're already essentially conceding Tuesday. What happens the following week in Indiana which of course he's making as his firewall.

Polls show Trump ahead in Indiana, and if Trump does well there and does well in some of the states after that, including in California, but still falls short of the 1,237, what is Cruz's claim to the delegates particularly if he has this really rough stretch headed into the convention.

KING: Cruz was ahead in Indiana a few weeks ago. But the polling has changed, the FOX News poll shows Trump ahead and Cruz is trying to stop that state, trying to stop the movement in that state by bringing up comments Donald Trump made first on the "Today" show the other day, asked about North Carolina's law that says you can only go to a public bathroom in the gender of your birth. So, if you're a transgender person, born a man and you become a woman in the North Carolina law you have to go to the men's bathroom.

Donald Trump on the "Today" show trying to explain he does not think this is a big deal. He said if Caitlyn Jenner came to the Trump Tower, she could use any bathroom she wanted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: North Carolina did something was very strong and they're paying a big price and there's a lot of problems. Leave it the way it is. There have been very few complaints the way it is. People go, they use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate. There has been so little trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Trump says he thinks this is much ado about nothing, that this is a very rare circumstance and let people figure it out. He then in I call the latest example of Sean Hannity trying to lead Donald Trump to the water, he had a conversation on FOX News, Hannity got him to agree this should be left to states and local communities, the federal government should not be involved in this.

But Ted Cruz, listen to him, he understands Indiana has a socially conservative primary electorate, Ted Cruz said it's a big deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Let me ask you, have we gone stark raving nuts? I'm the father two of little girls. Here is basic common sense. Grown adult men, strangers, should not be alone in a bathroom with little girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Now, Ted Cruz playing to social conservative principles there, which in a Republican presidential primary is usually safe ground. If Ted Cruz has a horrible Tuesday and then cannot win in Indiana, what does it say?

PACE: If Ted Cruz can't win Indiana, then his path is extremely difficult. You see him with the issue, other things he's been saying trying to get back to the core of his campaign, which is appealing to conservatives, trying to appeal to social and religious conservatives in particular.

I think Trump's comments on this are fascinating, though, because you have to keep in mind this is a businessman and there's a wing of the Republican Party, a more business-minded wing that looks at things that happened in North Carolina and Mississippi and sees this as bad for business, bad for the party.

So, in some ways you've seen candidates now aligning on the traditional Republican split that we had thought this election might be about. I don't know if that is purposeful by Donald Trump, but it is interesting to watch that happen.

RAJU: And to watch them walk it back afterwards. I mean, that's what you've seen him time and again with Donald Trump, he'll say something on social conservative issue like abortion, saying women should be prosecuted if abortion became illegal, and then realized it's something you probably shouldn't say and try to clean it up afterwards because realizing that some social conservative voters could be important.

One point I want to make on Indiana, what's interesting, and they know of how Cruz is approaching Indiana, is that super PAC and allies are going after John Kasich because they're concerned that John Kasich could eat away at his support, knowing how critical it is, that's their focus over the next week.

(CROSSTALK)

BALZ: Indiana is a little bit of a split personality. In the northern part of Indiana is a little bit more like Ohio. I mean, it's an industrial -- you know, it's a Midwest industrial state. Southern Indiana is more southern, and so you've got this kind of split electorate, which is the one who's going to dominate on May 3rd.

KING: I nominate Dan Balz to come in her Indiana primary night and work the magic wall. That's going to be excellent.

To the Democrats, next, and the math lesson Hillary Clinton hopes to teach Bernie Sanders come Tuesday.

[08:25:02] But, first here is our INSIDE POLITICS quiz question for the week, should any of the current candidates pick a rival as their running mate? Yes or no. Vote online at CNN.com/vote.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back.

Hillary Clinton is banking on a big night Tuesday in Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Delaware vote. And if she can win four out of the five her pledge delegate lead, which is about 253 right now, could be in the ballpark of 290, maybe more when the votes are counted.

Now, she has an even bigger lead, first, let's project out Tuesday night. That's the wrong race. Democrats here, Hillary Clinton thinks she'll win four out of the five, stretch out to here.

Now, much bigger lead if you bring in the superdelegates, gets Hillary Clinton way out here, even close to the finish line, right? You see that? Senator Sanders back here unless he has a big night on Tuesday.

But let's forget the super delegates for a moment, set them aside.

[08:30:02] If her pledged delegate lead is in the 290, 300 ball park, Wednesday morning, Senator Sanders would then have to win about 63 percent of the remaining pledged delegates to catch Clinton on that count. Now, that's an unlikely scenario. One of the things Senator Sanders doesn't like, like in New York, four of the five states voting Tuesday are so-called close primaries. Only in Rhode Island can independents vote.

Senator Sanders doesn't like that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind losing, but 3 million people in New York state, 3 million people who registered as independents did not have the right to participate in the Democratic or Republican primary.

(BOOS)

That really is not democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Not in Senator Sanders' view democracy but it is the Democratic Party and the party as we've seen on the Republican side with Donald Trump complaining about a rigged and a crooked system, the parties make their own rules, and in this case, the closed primaries not good news for Senator Sanders, had a tough time in the campaign.

PACE: Yes, this is a tough moment. He's making a similar argument in different words to what Trump is saying, the system is disenfranchising a lot of American voters. I think there are merits to that. We go through this every four years parties realize, remember what their rules are.

But the math is just incredibly difficult for Sanders. He's learning what Hillary Clinton learned in 2008, which is based on the way that Democrats run their primaries, once a candidate pulls out to a fairly good sized lead, it's really difficult to catch up. And he is continuing to make the case there is a pathway to him. His

campaign manager is talking about flipping super delegates. But there's no sign that super delegates are looking to move away from Hillary Clinton toward Bernie Sanders and that's really his only option at this point.

KING: And when she went through this in 2007 and 2008 ultimately, I think most people in the party knew she was a lifelong Democrat, that as hard as it was, she was going to figure it out, that she was going to find a way to embrace then-Senator Obama and try to bring the party together and she did that, and Obama was grateful enough to make her secretary of state when he won the election.

It's more of a question mark for Bernie Sanders because he was an independent before he became a Democrat. A lot of the Clinton people are suspicious or skeptical that he's ready to be a big "D" Democrat. And they also see this online stuff, where supporter of both campaigns are in a nasty world in the social media. And sometimes the surrogates at events, what is the calculation Wednesday morning for Bernie Sanders if he has a 290, 300-pledged delegate lead and the math is, frankly, it's hard as it is to understand for the Sanders people, impossible?

BALZ: I think there's two calculations. The first is what kind of a campaign does he run between now and the end of the primaries? Everybody knows he's going to run through California and the District of Columbia on the last day of the primaries.

But what does he say about her? How does he prosecute the case? Eight years ago when she was in a similar position she told her aides I'm going to run to the end but I don't want to do anything or say anything that would make it more difficult for Barack Obama to become president in November. That's a question for him.

The second thing is what does he want at the convention? What does he want in terms of the platform? What does he want in terms of how the system will work going forward? Will there be rules changes?

And then the third is, what does he do and say to his supporters to make it clear that he wants to win in November and have a Democrat in the White House?

KING: So, what is -- if Senator Sanders, and you could tell he's starting to think about this, been a bit of a divide publicly in his campaign. Tad Devine, the campaign strategist, is saying, let's see how he do on Tuesday and we think about it, the Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager, saying we're going full bore to the end, it's up to the candidate in the end. If Senator Sanders moderates his tone, if Senator starts thinking about what I want in the platform, starts being a big "D" Democrat what is the burden on Hillary Clinton to reach out to his people? The younger ones say never vote for Clinton.

PARKER: I mean, there is some polling and evidence that shows if Hillary Clinton is the nominee, that those Sanders supporters in that progressive wing of the Democratic Party will come over and support Hillary especially if she's running against some like Donald Trump. There certainly is sort of an impetus on Hillary to reward him in some

way especially if he stops persecuting sort of the personal case against her, which is sort of the nightmare scenario for Democrats, right? Because he's going to say something the Republicans can use against her in the fall, we already saw that happen with Donald Trump.

Donald Trump the other day stood up at an event and he said Bernie Sanders says that Hillary Clinton's not qualified to be president. Not me, Bernie. So now I'm going to say it.

So, I think if that stops she'll be grateful and going to need to find a way to repay him.

RAJU: And one of the things we've seen so far is that a lot of the Hillary supporters who are party establishment types and Democrats have not really pushed Bernie to get out of the race because they don't want to alienate his legions of supporters, but at the same time, he's not really said a lot of things sharply barbed attacks until the unqualified line.

If he continues that aggressive line of attack after a bad day on Tuesday and if he loses Pennsylvania in particular, that's going to be a problem for him from his colleagues, who are going to come after him pretty hard and how does he deal with that pressure.

[08:35:02] I think he'll have to consider that going forward, given that he says something strongly, sharply worded against her, it's going to probably come back and bite him.

BALZ: You know, we talked about this every time there's a competitive primary, what will it take to bring the party back together. But there does seem to be something about this year in which you've got different kinds of an electorate and I think we've reached the point in the Democratic race where it might be difficult, it might take time, by November maybe they'll all be back on the same page, but I think it's incumbent on both sides to work to make that happen.

KING: She has for the most part dialed back her criticism of him. She was tough in Connecticut this week, which if you look at the demographics of the states Tuesday, Rhode Island and Connecticut, probably the toughest for Hillary Clinton and she brought up the gun voting record in Connecticut because of Sandy Hook. She brought up his gun voting record there.

But more and more, she's trying to focus on Donald Trump. Listen to Hillary Clinton here. We heard Ted Cruz earlier in the show saying when Donald Trump's campaign manager says it's an act or it's a performance, Ted Cruz says don't believe anything he says. Hillary Clinton take is different. Don't let him get away from what he says about the wall, what she says about Muslims because he means it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Trump keeps saying things like well you know, I didn't really mean it. It was all part of my reality TV show, running for president will be on your screen. Well, you know what? If we buy that, shame on us. He's already showed us what he believes and he's already said what he wants to do, and he wants to go after every one of the rights we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: To Ashley's point, Julie, a lot of Democrats think if Trump rater for party unity even if you don't like Clinton and you're for Sanders and disappointed that Trump is the motivator. In the Clinton campaign do they believe that's enough or she has to do more than just saying I want to you join me, to say something about campaign finance reform to be more direct about political reforms and Wall Street reforms?

PACE: They definitely see Trump as a motivator, something they could go to young voters could you stay at home and let Donald Trump be president but they also know they can't spend the entire summer and the entire fall campaign talking about Trump, responding to him. There has to be some proactive message from her, some vision of what she would do but how to do that especially in this environment where Donald Trump is so skilled at controlling the narrative and being at the center of attention, it's really an unanswered question.

It's actually I think one of the biggest questions they face going into the fall campaign how she carves out space for her own message but doesn't let his attacks on her go unanswered.

RAJU: And how to define Donald Trump, that's one of the things that Republicans are realizing they tried to define him early this election season, didn't quite work and for Democrats, when do you begin that effort to truly try to define him in the eyes of general election voters.

KING: General election voters -- run in a general reaction, you need a running mate, right? Clinton/Warren, Trump/Rubio? Ready or not, the veep stakes buzz is ramping up, the reason it isn't all idle speculation, well, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Of course, Hillary Clinton is open to a woman as her vice presidential running mate. That's what her campaign chairman told "The Boston Globe" this past week. And, of course, the inevitable, Clinton/Warren as in the liberal darling and anti-Wall Street crusader Elizabeth Warren? That possibility had Democrats talking and debating.

Donald Trump says, don't ask me that question until I clinch the nomination. Why then are the two candidates way behind him, Ted Cruz and John Kasich, already their campaigns say building VP lists. We're at the fun part of the campaign.

Let's start with Clinton. Her campaign team does think after Tuesday night the path is pretty inevitable and start kicking around the names.

I'm going to start, Dan, I think it's unlikely. I know John Podesta is doing the right thing of course, she'll consider women, of course, she'll consider a broad slate of candidates.

Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren as a ticket, number one, two people who don't see eye to eye on a number of issues. And would she take risk? You know, we're old enough to remember Bill Clinton picking Al Gore, a lot of people said this makes no sense, two Southerners, two young men, two moderate Democrats.

Would you take two women who have a geographical base in the Northeast who are left of center?

BALZ: John, I've been so wrong about vice presidential nominees over the years that I will hedge.

I think it's unlikely. I think it's -- she's probably going to go somewhere else. If she needs to bring the Sanders people in, there may be other options she'll be able to look at. But we are so far away from a final decision on it or a genuine short list that the idea that we can narrow it down to two or three people.

KING: The Labor Secretary Tom Perez comes up a lot. Most Americans probably have no idea who he is. Julian Castro, the HUD secretary, comes up sometimes. The two senators from Virginia, Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, both come up in that list.

If you're Hillary Clinton, is that how you get the piece with the Sanders movement by picking somebody to the left or traditionally in a general election, you try to be more to the middle?

PACE: I think Hillary Clinton needs to do that work herself, frankly, I think that she can send a message with her vice presidential pick in a couple of different directions. I think it's going to be very hard for her to find someone maybe short of Elizabeth Warren who I agree is probably unlikely to actually end up being the VP who will be enough in and of themselves to bring Sanders voters over.

She is going to have to do this work. She -- from what I understand, she is looking for someone as VP, who has one simple qualification and that is someone who she thinks could be president. That is important to her at this point.

KING: That's what they always say. But don't you look for a state or look at a demographic, look to a state, I need a state in the old days, that was Ohio and that was Florida. Are the Democrats certainly enter with a demographic advantage in the electoral map if you look at the last two Obama victories. Are you looking for a stay, are you looking to say it's time for Latinos to have a place on the ticket, maybe dramatic statement to women?

RAJU: On the Latino front maybe not as important with Donald Trump as the Republican nominee because he already is firing up Latino voters but of course we want historic pick, pick someone like Tom Perez, Julian Castro, of course, Elizabeth Warren I agree is unlikely.

Interesting her name after Podesta made the comments, I started to some pushback from Democratic corners about Warren. They're worried whether she can handle the spotlight the way, you know, as vice presidential candidate, given she has sort of avoided the spotlight and her time as a senator, pick and choose the issues that she wanted to focus, gotten a lot of attention on those issues, but we get into a presidential race, issues span the gamut. You hear concerns just by virtue of her name being floated.

KING: Let's flip to Republicans. Trump has said he would pick somebody with Washington experience or political experience because he has none of those things which is smart, makes sense. You want to pick somebody who knows the game if you're, as he says, an outsider, who's been insider but we'll leave that for another day.

But the fact that Cruz and Kasich campaigns say they're building lists, is that a serious enterprise to pick a running mate, is part of if you're them and get to a chaotic convention that's your play, or do it before the convention, in that month between June 7th and the convention, where you're trying to court the uncommitted delegates, do you try to block Donald Trump saying here's the dramatic ticket I want to you vote for in Cleveland?

PARKER: Not only is it a potential convention play, right, to maybe help -- boost yourself bring super legates but also what you do to make yourself seem more presidential when you're not winning.

So, Donald Trump is getting closer to the nomination by winning votes in each primary or caucus. And these people are not. So, one thing they can do to sort of add the aura of the presidency is begin choosing a VP for a nomination there, increasingly unlikely to secure.

KING: And do you allow yourself to get -- I don't demean sound cynical. If you're Joni Ernst, senator from Iowa, and Ted Cruz calls and says, I'd like to announce that you'd be my running mate when I don't even have the nomination yet. Do you get stuck in that?

RAJU: It's a big, big risk.

KING: Yes.

RAJU: I mean, it's interesting Trump saying he may want a Washington insider candidate to be his VP. But perhaps that's a play for convention delegates who want a more stable campaign.

BALZ: There's a big risk in that as we know from what Ronald Reagan did in 1976 when he announced a running mate ahead of the convention, picked Dick Schweiker from Pennsylvania and a lot of conservatives were alarmed by that and he lost votes.

So, the political aspect of this is tricky. I mean, at its core I think this is ultimately two things, one is who actually is presidential or who can actually do the job, and what's the chemistry like? I mean, what we saw in 2012 with Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan instant chemistry, and that counted in the end, I think, in a huge way.

KING: I'd love to see the Trump calculations on that, how to figure that out. It's a fascinating conversation just starting. We'll carry it through to July. Pick your veep at home everybody. Our reporters empty their notebooks next, insights into why John Kasich is staying in the race despite the long, long odds against him.

But, first, here's the result of our inside politics quiz question. We asked, should any of the current candidates choose a rival as running mate? The majority, 59 percent of you, say no.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:31] KING: Let's head around the INSIDE POLITICS table and ask our great reporters to share a headline that gets you out ahead of the political news around the corner.

Julie Pace?

PACE: I sat in on focus groups with swing voters and Republican voters and some of the questions they were asked about the Supreme Court nomination of Merritt Garland. This was a reality check for anyone in Washington who think the issue is generating voters across the country.

I was struck how these voters seemed completely uninterested in the nomination fight. Among the swing voters, not one of them said this was something that would impact their vote in the fall. Even among the Republican voters who felt like this nomination should wait until the next president, almost none felt like this was an issue that was going to affect their vote either in the presidential race or in their Senate race.

KING: Nice try Mr. President I guess.

Dan?

BALZ: John, this is a week we'll get ate better look whether there's a new Trump or old Trump or multiple Trumps. I mean, we're going to see in a variety of situations this week, a foreign policy speech, an election night, and they will be enhancing or adding to the new operation. I think we'll get a better sense by the end of the week of what we are seeing in the future.

KING: And whether NATO is still obsolete, I guess.

Manu?

RAJU: John, Senate Democrats are already plotting their path back to majority. They have raised $40 million, actually reserved $40 million in air time in five battleground states this election cycle, three of which are Republican House seats, two are Democrats defending, including Nevada and in Colorado, but the big test will come on Tuesday in Pennsylvania. Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee put close to $2 million behind Katie McGinty, their favorite candidate in this primary, but she could lose despite having support of party establishment, President Obama, Joe Biden and lose to Joe Sestak, a former congressman and a fear among the party establishment if Sestak wins, it could undermine their ability to take back the Senate this fall. KING: Senate race is very important.

Ashley?

PARKER: So, we've all heard Donald Trump rail against the rigged and crooked system and says even though he has the biggest toys and the best toys, he's not going to play this game and bribe delegates.

When I interviewed him last week at Trump Tower, he refused to rule that out and talking to his aides privately, they say he's going to do just that, use the trappings of his celebrity, so the plane, trips to Mar-A-Lago, cocktail parties at Trump Tower, maybe having his kids start calling delegates and if and when we see that happen that will be a sign he's getting serious about running a real campaign.

[08:55:03] KING: Perhaps take the Trump plane to Guam and American Samoa, get the uncommitted delegates.

PARKER: Exactly.

KING: I'll close with this.

At the moment, John Kasich is running fourth in a three-man race. Meaning he continues to trail Marco Rubio and delegates a full six weeks since the Florida senator quit the race. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz ask on a near daily basis why Kasich is still running and so do many Republicans sympathetic to the Ohio governor but see zero chance he will be the party's nominee. Now Kasich has no money for any sustained TV ads, little prospect of raising much more and has yet to prove he can break through outside of his home state of Ohio.

But he left the National Republican Committee meeting a few days ago, believing there wild be an opening if the convention goes beyond two ballots and party leaders suddenly looking for an alternative to Trump and Cruz. His goal is to win 250 to 300 votes on the first ballot and then to try to build from there.

Wishful thinking? Probably. But Kasich is enjoying the campaign despite the results so far and figures in this whacky year the long odds don't mean impossible odds. OK, Governor.

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS. Again, thanks for sharing your Sunday morning. We'll see you soon including touring our special election coverage Tuesday night.

"STATE OF THE UNION" is next.