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Inside Politics
Trump Rips "All Talk... No Action" Civil Rights Icon Lewis; Senate Probe Into Possible Kremlin Connections. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired January 15, 2017 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[08:00:12] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): His final days.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Change only happens when ordinary people get involved and they get engaged and they come together to demand it.
KING: And his feisty style.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: It's all fake news. It's phony stuff. It didn't happen.
KING: It's inauguration week, and the president-elect promises a quick start.
TRUMP: It will be repeal and replace. It will be essentially simultaneously.
KING: But who to believe? Trump's top national security picks split from the boss on Russia and more.
REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE: Russia must know that we will be accountable to our commitments and those of our allies and that Russia must be held to account for its actions.
KING: INSIDE POLITICS, the biggest stories sourced by the best reporters, now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thanks for sharing your Sunday morning as we brace for a dramatic week here in Washington.
The inauguration of a new president is the celebration of our democracy, peaceful transition of power even after the most bruising election of seasons. But like everything involving Donald Trump, this one is different.
The election was 67 days ago, but emotions remain raw. Democrats didn't like Trump or his agenda to begin, and the more they learn about Russian hack and meddling, the more chances for bipartisan dwindle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: I don't recognize the president-elect as a legitimate president. I think the Russians participated in helping this man get elected, and they helped destroy the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Raw. And the president-elect's response to civil rights icon John Lewis, well, it only intensified the fight.
Plus, it's hardly just Washington on end. China is in a weekend war of words with the president-elect. And Mexico, too, raising the prospect of trade wars and more in the early days of the new administration.
And in this tense environment, add in this question. Which will count more with big moments of truth, the views of candidate Donald Trump or the very different views of the new men taking critical cabinet jobs for President Donald Trump?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLERSON: My view of Putin is that he has chosen to be both a strategic competitor and an adversary.
TRUMP: If he says great things about me, I'm going say great things about him. I've already said he is really very much of a leader.
TILLERSON: I do not oppose TPP. I share some of his views regarding whether the agreement that was negotiated serves all of America's interests best.
TRUMP: We will also immediately stop the job-killing Trans Pacific Partnership, a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: With us this Sunday to share their reporting and their insights. Julie Pace of "The Associated Press", CNN's Manu Raju, Lisa Lerer of "The Associated Press", and Mary Katharine Ham of "The Federalist".
Donald Trump was a disruptive, unapologetic and confrontational force as a candidate. There is every reason to believe he plans a disruptive, apologetic and confrontational presidency.
In a moment what that means on the world stage. A new Trump interview with "The Wall Street Journal", for example, has China on edge, and those who think the president-elect is naively soft on Vladimir Putin up in arms again, first though, his counter punch to congressman and civil rights icon, John Lewis, and what it tells us about the distrustful and partisan mood here in Washington and what it tells us about the street-fighting style of the soon-to-be 45th president of the United States.
The Trump inauguration is Friday. Democratic Congressman Lewis was already planning to skip it and then he upped the ante, making clear in an interview with NBC, this is no one-day protest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: Do you plan on trying to forge a relationship with Donald Trump?
LEWIS: You know, I believe in forgiveness. I believe in trying to work with people. It will be hard. It's going to be very difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You all know what came next. A week that began with Trump launching a Twitter tirade at Hollywood legend Meryl Streep ended with a Trump broadside against the civil rights legend who was a hero to his Democratic colleagues and revered figure among African-Americans.
Donald Trump on Twitter yesterday, "Congressman John Lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and falling apart." It's not really but that's what he said on Twitter. Donald Trump going on to say, "Not to mention crime- infested. Rather than falsely complaining about the election results. All talk, talk, talk. No action or results. Sad."
Now, to be fair to the president-elect, John Lewis threw the first punch here. John Lewis had to know what he was doing, a leading Democrat, a leading figure in the African-American community choosing the weekend before the inauguration to say illegitimate, knowing -- knowing that Donald Trump was particularly sensitive about that word.
JULIE PACE, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Absolutely. We know that Trump likes to respond to basically every perceived slight but he is particularly sensitive to the idea that he was not legitimately elected.
[08:05:03] I think we should state clearly. He was legitimately elected. He is going to be sworn in Friday. He won this fair and square.
There are questions about Russian involvement in the election, but no one has alleged that Russia was involved in actually changing the results here. But the question about Trump, when he takes office on Friday, he is going to be under so much scrutiny. He is going to get this from the right, from the left, from domestic and international critics. He cannot let slights go.
Is he going to continue to operate in this space where everybody who says anything that he disagrees with is going to come in for a Twitter counterpunch? I think the message that we got from his counterpunch to Congressman Lewis is that, yes, that's how he's going to operate.
KING: If you're still waiting, if you're still waiting for Donald Trump to change, we went through this in the Republican primaries, we went through this in the general election, we've gone through this in the transition, if you're waiting for him to change, find something else. Find another hobby.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I think we can expect morning tweet storms at 5:00, 6:00 a.m. every day. What was remarkable in one of the polls that came out last week, Quinnipiac Poll, it said that had a majority of Americans, by a significant amount.
KING: Sixty-four percent I think.
RAJU: Don't want him to tweet anymore. They want him to close his Twitter account, especially younger voters, even Republicans, I think there was a slight plurality, who actually wanted him to keep his Twitter account open. But in the same polls, it showed that he doesn't really have much of a honeymoon period compared to the rest -- to other past Republican presidents and Democratic presidents.
Even George W. Bush after the contested 2000 election had had a much stronger rating going into office than he does, and that's a risk for Donald Trump coming in, and it shows -- and the question of whether or not he extends an olive branch to his critics or he goings after them pretty aggressively.
KING: That's a key point, because Donald Trump won the election fair and square. He's a legitimate president. When he's sworn in, he will be a legitimate president. I'll keep saying that all week long.
However, he did lose the popular vote and Democrats focused on that a lot. And one of the criticisms that he has not, from Democrats and left groups, is that since the election, 67 days ago, he's not spent much time trying to reach out to them. We're told he's preparing a speech that will be a unifying speech to the nation. Will people listen to it after he's in with all the Twitter wars is one issue?
He did meet with the president of the AFL-CIO, near the end of this past week, he brought in with entertainer Steve Harvey, said he want to help, talk with him about the African-American community. But there's not been a lot of outreach.
So, that's why the Lewis thing to me is interesting. And again, John Lewis went first and that's clearly sent a signal. Once he did that we went from I think 10 to 18 Democrats who publicly said they will boycott the inauguration. I suspect that number will go up even high.
What does it tell us about hyperpartisanship, the mood? We thought there would maybe be a moment because Democrats say maybe we can work with him on some issues but I don't think so.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, THE FEDERALIST: So, that's what I think, it tells you something about Trump and something we already knew. It also tells you something about the Democratic reaction to Trump and I just want to say beyond the strategic part, which I don't call it's wise to call him an illegitimate president partly because many Democrats who should have voted Democrats and should have voted Hillary Clinton voted Donald Trump and they are ordinary people who got involved and made change, big change, but beyond, that I don't think that's particularly healthy for elected officials to call him an illegitimate president when he was elected legitimately
And before the election, many of those people were rightly complaining that Trump was signaling that he might --
KING: And undermining public faith in the democratic institution.
HAM: It is not good for society. I said that at time about Trump and it's not good when the other side does it either.
LISA LERER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: But it does show how Trump's breaking of all these presidential norms, the idea questioning the very elections that our foundation which the democracy stands sort of leads to an weakening overall, right? Trump does it and Democrats start doing it and it becomes sort of acceptable to question the legitimacy of a U.S. election, as we've all said legitimate. That's not good.
It also shows -- I think Lewis clearly baited Trump. You mentioned it was two days before Martin Luther King Day.
KING: Right.
LERER: So, like he's clearly baiting him and shows how something that Trump and his supporters see as a strength, which is his ability to counterpunch his, his need to be attacked back can be exploited as a weakness, and that's something that could be a dangerous thing.
KING: And the part that's angering, and, again, I'll keep saying it, Lewis went first here and he did it for a reason obviously. Yes, he's a civil rights icon, yes, he's a historic figure in American society. This was him being a politician.
LERER: Yes.
KING: And he made had a calculated choice here to do it and that, of course, is his right. But it does send a signal. But the part that has the African-American community upset is talk, talk, talk and also Trump just getting completely wrong. John Lewis's district which happens to be a very nice district outside of Atlanta. Is there crime in John Lewis' district? Of course, but they are saying what does Donald Trump, like every black member of Congress comes from some hellish district?
(CROSSTALK)
RAJU: You've seen the most resistance from Democrats from the Congressional Black Caucus on Capitol Hill during the Electoral College voting you saw several members of the Congressional Black Caucus try to contest those results, state by state, when they're counting the electoral votes in the House of Representatives.
[08:10:04] But John Lewis going much further than Democratic leaders were going, even the outgoing leader Harry Reid on his final days in office who is a fierce Trump critic. I asked him, do you think Donald Trump is a legitimate president? He said, "Yes, he's a legitimate president."
So, this shows kind of where the resistance is in the Democratic Party. It's on the left part of the party and from minority lawmakers in particular.
KING: And the question is now, we know others are following suit to skip. I'll use the word boycott, they can use whatever word they want, the inauguration. Will others join suit with the illegitimate? We'll watch.
And some Democrats privately say, "Too bad, Donald Trump, this is payback. You did this to Barack Obama."
But this is a member of Congress. Donald Trump is a private citizen when he did that. We can call it reprehensible, the birther movement thing was reprehensible, but he was a private citizen.
To have a leading member of Congress do it, it sends a very different signal. We'll see.
Washington on edge, questions about, can they get along on anything? The world also on edge, and, again, because of this interview that Donald Trump give to the "Wall Street Journal", talking about China. Everything is under negotiation, including one China -- the one-China policy is that we recognize Taiwan officially as part of China, even though that's a small democracy, even though we have security wink-nod arrangements with Taiwan. To big Beijing, we say it's a one China policy.
The Chinese government fired back. This is non-negotiable.
Donald Trump, it's -- he has made clear throughout the campaign. He's inconsistent on a lot of issues. On this one, he's been very clear. I'm going to be more confrontational, I'm going to be tougher. He wants to put China in what he thinks is his place.
HAM: Well, I think you saw some signaling on this with the phone call that everyone wondered, is that strategic? Is that part of what he believes? And it seems like he might be fleshing something like that out now.
I mean, it's hard to say like, oh, he's way too friendly with Russia, and then, oh, we don't like him being confrontational with China. And I also think that foreign powers in an interesting way have figured out to take him with a grain of salt, even quicker than many people in America have.
And the last time he went after China publicly in tweets, they were like, yeah, he tweeted. That was sort of the official reaction. I don't know how that escalates from here though.
KING: But now, the Chinese government is firing back. They were also sensitive because of the confirmation hearings, Rex Tillerson said, we'll deny them access to the South China Sea islands where they are building military installations, that one was ill-received, shall we say, in Beijing. So, China is saying, wait a minute. And Mexico, Trump has said he's going to have a border tariff. If you
move your jobs overseas, if you're Ford or GM or anybody and you move your manufacturing plant to Mexico, try to sell those cars back to United States will be (INAUDIBLE). Mexico saying they would respond immediately and saying they thought such a thing would cause a global recession.
PACE: And we don't know how Trump will react to policy changes from other countries. We know how he reacts to perceived slights, he's got Twitter for that. But the idea that China could do something with our trade policy, that Mexico could do something on the same front. We don't know how he reacts.
Picking the fight over the one-China policy is particularly interesting to me because this is something that a lot of people in the U.S. don't know about or talk about a lot when it comes to China, but this is incredibly important to the Chinese, to go after Taiwan. I would like to hear actually Trump kind of flush this out a little bit. Why do you think that the U.S. should recognize Taiwan? I think he owes to people if he's going to pick this fight to explain this more broadly.
KING: And he said in the same interview and his cabinet members, his designees, who are very tough on Putin, Trump says, "If you get along and Russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody's doing some really great things?" Raising the prospect that he would quickly waive away the Obama administration sanctions against Russia for meddling in the elections if he's getting along with Putin.
I had a conversation the other night with a very smart investor who's in touch with the Trump campaign a lot, who said that we're not getting this. He described this as the game of risk. The game of risk, you play the geopolitical, he said when you're down to three people, two gang up on one.
He said their calculation in Trump land is, be friendly with Russia, not naively friendly, but be friendly to turn against China, and then deal with the fallout later. That's what they describe the play as inside.
But in Washington, a lot of conservatives are saying, there he goes again being nice to Putin.
RAJU: Yes, exactly. And I think this is going to be the first real confrontation between the Republican Congress and Donald Trump about the sanctions issued. There is a really aggressive push happening in the Senate, a bipartisan push to strengthen the sanctions, not to lift the sanctions. And how does Trump deal that if they get a sizable amount of support? And I think that they can, and the question is, it's going to put potentially Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan in a difficult spot. But of them are pretty sharp critics of Putin.
But what do they do if Donald Trump tells them, he doesn't want to sign this legislation? That's going to be a real interesting test and opening parts -- LERER: And it also shows the limitations and, you know, even dangers
of Trump's reality TV form of communication, right? We didn't even address these during the press conference. He hasn't really given out a flushed out view from his own mouth and his own words of how he sees the world, how he sees these international conflicts.
So, you know, foreign allies are receiving signals and they are receiving -- and, you know, not so allies are receiving signals, and a lot of conflicting signals coming out of Capital Hill, coming out of different people, speaking for Trump coming out of the president-elect himself, that makes it very difficult for not only the American public but also the world to kind of have a sense of his view, his macro level view on these issues and that's problematic.
[08:15:06] KING: The part we do know now, just as he was in the campaign, he is a disruptive force on daily if not in hourly basis.
Everybody, sit tight.
Up next, the inauguration of a new president usually means a clean slate, but not this time. A congressional investigation of Russia's middling into the investigation now expanding to explore whether key Trump allies had campaign year contacts with Kremlin.
But before we look forward, politicians say the darndest things. Here a look back at a White House bromance soon to leave 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This also gives the Internet one last time to talk about our bromance.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're hard to keep up with.
Which you like better, these or these?
OBAMA: Joe, they are the same.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back.
The big Friday about-face by a key Senate Republican adds another unpredictable wrinkle to the early days of the Trump administration, and yet another dynamic to the president-elect's public feuding with American spy agencies. The Senate Intelligence Committee now says its investigation of Russian hacking and other cyber meddling in the 2016 presidential election will include exploring whether there were election year contacts between Trump emissaries and the Kremlin.
On Thursday, the committee chairman Richard Burr said the review would be much more narrowly focus, just on Russian interference. So, why the about-face in 24 hours?
Chairman Burr, a Republican from North Carolina said in a statement that, quote, "Part of our inquiry will necessarily be focused on what happened and what didn't happen in this case."
The committee's ranking Democrat was a bit clearer, not terribly clearer, but a bit clearer. Mark Warner of Virginia saying, "This issue impacts the foundations of our democratic system. It's that important. This requires a full, deep and bipartisan examination."
So did some new information force this change?
[08:20:01] Well, we don't know. But we do know the Director of National Intelligence and the heads of the FBI and CIA were up on Capitol Hill late this past week for classified briefings.
And so, that is the question. And for Richard Burr to do this, he had been pressured to do this at the beginning. He said no. To be clear to those of you who might not know who Richard Burr is, Republican of North Carolina, the chairman of the intelligence committee, a guy who was very grateful for Donald Trump's help in the campaign. This is not John McCain or Lindsey Graham, one of the people who've been eager to poke Trump on the Russia and the intel question.
So, why?
RAJU: Well, I know on those Thursday and Friday briefings, Thursday, the Senate briefing that senior intelligence officials came, and they discussed the Russia hack with all senators. They did discuss this 35-page dossier that includes unsubstantiated allegations about potential dirt that the Russians may have on Donald Trump. That came up in the discussion as well as this two-page summary that was included as part of the briefing that Donald Trump had about the Russian hacking shortly about a week and a half ago.
So, there was a discussion about that. In that briefing, the intelligence committee said this is not the product. They were trying to distance themselves from it. So, we don't know if that's what caused Senator Burr to decide, that along with Mark Warner to look into this, because the intelligence community is saying it's not. We need to dig a little further into it.
But also, there's a lot of pressure from folks who are pushing for a select committee to investigate the Russian issue, something separate from the intelligence committee, something that would be more prominent and more visible. And this is one way to -- to bat that down and say we're going to do it ourselves and we're going to look into it ourselves and a lot is going to happen in a classified settling and not a public setting. So, we'll see if we can learn any of that publicly and definitely a significant shift.
KING: And what does it do? Remember during the campaign, Donald Trump said, you can't elect Hillary Clinton because she'll be under investigation. If she's wins, she's going to be under investigation. Well, he won and now -- not him. Let's be very clear. He's not under investigation, but there are been
rumors of Trump emissaries going back and forth to Moscow during the election year. One guy Trump was asked about he denied knowing who the guy was, even though during the campaign, he had a couple of occasion cited him as a foreign policy adviser. So, Democrats say, aha, suspicion, aha, but how big of a deal is this?
HAM: I mean, we shall see. I think probably part of what's going on here is I think if you had a different guy than Trump, he would say, please, go ahead and investigate fully but Trump can't stand the sleight which many Democrats are using it to undermine him. That's a real thing.
KING: That's a real thing.
HAM: So, I think perhaps Republicans in the Senate are going, let's take care of this and actually do the sort of job and make like we're doing our job, and Warner and Burr both, neither of them are like ideological firebrands here. So, I think they are sort of a trusted team to maybe get into this.
KING: Well, that -- to that point, good. If you have these two guys who are not known as ideological firebrands who conduct a thorough investigation and tell us yes or no, this or that, that would be great, and we can put this all behind us, maybe. It's a spy novel that never ends.
But it happens in the middle. Some of the people being called as witnesses and a lot of these hearings and questions will be classified are people Donald Trump has had open warfare with. How does that complicate things?
Again, this week, his nominee for defense secretary, his nominee for CIA director -- we love the U.S. intelligence community, we trust the U.S. intelligence community, we think they are wonderful patriots, we think they're smart people, we accept their guidance. Donald Trump tweeting about that dossier you mentioned, "Now turns out phony allegations against me were put together by my political opponents and a failed spy afraid of being sued." "Totally made up fact by sleazebag political operatives, both Democrats and Republicans fake news. Russia says nothing exists."
Again, Mr. President-elect, I wouldn't necessarily cite Russia as a source of information but that's OK.
"Probably released by 'intelligence'", in quotes, again, this is the operative part, "even knowing there is no proof and never will be."
He just keeps essentially challenging the credibility, the motivation of the spy agencies.
PACE: And what I think he is probably starting to learn is that the intelligence agencies do have a lot of power to leak information. I'm not saying that they were behind leaking the specific information, but we all live in Washington. We know how this works. They will have information, not just about what his ties may be to Russia but various things that will happen throughout his presidency and the more he fights back against them publicly the mortgage intelligence agencies will fight back trying to get information out to the public.
KING: So, the Trump administration is like scandal --
(CROSSTALK)
LERER: And it speaks to a larger misunderstanding that you have about government. Bureaucracy can fight back. It cannot only leak things and whistle-blow and there are a lot of protections for whistleblowers. But they can also really slow things down. You know, bureaucrats in the EPA can say, OK, fine, do you want to overturn this and we got the exact date by which we're ordered to review it to. So, that is a day plus X -- a year plus X many days and they can slow down his agenda and complicate his agenda in a lot of ways.
RAJU: And investigate. I mean, the inspector general investigation into FBI Director James Comey's handling of the Clinton e-mail investigation ensures that that story is going to continue through Donald Trump's --
[08:25:04] KING: Another thing that has Democrats raw. The Justice Department inspector general will investigate whether Comey will violated, well, how the process went, whether he did or did not go outside of the Justice Department, and Democrats are in this private briefings and they say they're hearing things in this private briefings, and they're like, why didn't you talk about that in the campaign? Why didn't you talk about Hillary Clinton?
But I want to come back to the Trump thing a little bit, because you mentioned, that bureaucracy has power. James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, issued a statement in the middle of the week, very rare, after a phone call with Donald Trump.
Donald Trump tweeted, "James Clapper called me yesterday to denounce the false and fictitious report that was illegally circulated, made up, phony facts. Too bad." That was Trump's tweet.
Clapper's statement said no such thing. Clapper's statement said they had a phone conversation, essentially confirmed he had been briefed about this stuff and it's specifically said the intelligence community has not decided, has made no judgment of whether it's true or false. Donald Trump keeps saying they told me it was false. They did not.
HAM: It's classic Trump to inflate and conflate the information that he is getting, and that will continue to be the case.
I will say one thing he's right about and what he might be referencing when he says operatives, is that during the primary season, this was being shopped by operatives and nobody picked it up because they couldn't get nailed down what was in the actual report. So, I think that's part of what he was complaining about and that got brought in the intelligence community and given more credence by them briefing other folks.
KING: Inflating and conflating. It's part of the style. We're about to see. Everybody, hang tight.
Next, President Obama's farewell. A mix of reflection on his eight years and some advice for the man about to sit in the Oval Office.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Eight years ago this week, we were preparing for the inauguration of the nation's first African-American president. Eight years, that's two terms, more than 2,900 days. Let's go through a little bit of Barack Obama by the numbers.
[08:30:00] JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS ANCHOR: -- preparing for the inauguration of the nation's first African-American President, eight years, that's two terms, more than 2900 days. Let's go few a little -- through a little bit of Barack Obama by the numbers. When President Obama took office January 2009, the unemployment rate just shy of 8 percent, it actually went up past 10 percent. Remember the financial mess? The President is very proud of this number, as he leaves office it's below 5 percent, now 4.7 percent. This number, not so much in the bragging department. The national debt, when President Obama took office, $10.6 trillion. As he leaves office, nearly $20 trillion. Over the course of eight years, 3,575 speeches, remarks, other comments, a lot of talking for any President, just shy of 1,300 flights on Air Force One. The President gets a nice plane. He's going to miss that one. As he leaves office now, the President tells democrats don't underestimate the new guy and he's trying to offer the new guy some advice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think everybody has to acknowledge. Don't underestimate the guy because he's going to be the 45th President of the United States. The one thing I've said to him directly and I would advise my republican friends in congress and supporters around the country, is just make sure that as we go forward, certain norms, certain institutional traditions don't get eroded because there's a reason they're in place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: So what does he mean by that?
JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I think that Trump obviously wants to come to Washington and shake things up and sometimes you get the sense that it's shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up, not necessarily because he disagrees with the way that things are working, and I think what Obama is trying to say is that there are certain things that are in place for a reason. I think that the Obama administration has set a kind of, model for how Presidents can use executive authority and I know that there are some democrats that are worried that Trump will use that more broadly. I think that frankly to talk about the press, there are concerns about him -- Trump blocking the press, from having access not for our benefit but for the public's benefit, to have access to information coming out of the west wing. So again, I think the question with Trump when he does try to shake up
Washington institutions is what is the reason behind it? Is it just to send the message that you're a disrupter or is there an actual reason that you're doing this to try to make the town operate better?
KING: And yet there are a lot of things in this town that could use them, disrupting. Some disruption wouldn't be such a bad thing.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: I think democrats will come to regret that President Obama's use of executive power now that Donald Trump is coming to office. Because he - I think you probably could expect him to expand the use of executive power. I mean, Obama expanded it pretty dramatically from Bush, who expand it had from Clinton and if you see this happening, Trump will as well.
Now, Paul Ryan has said that he and Trump have discussed this. They understand there are checks and balances. There's going to be a significantly powerful legislative branch, but we'll see when they get to the aspects of governing and when Trump's agenda, if it does stall in congress, how does he move things in an executive fashion and how does that -- what kind of response will democrats have?
LISA LERER, ASSOCIATED PRESS NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: But you also have a bit of an unusual dynamic here. You have you a departing President who is significantly more popular than the incoming President who is supposed to be in the honeymoon phase, so you get the sense from President Obama that he knows he has power, he's going to use it. It's going to be a political post-presidency. This isn't going to be like George W. Bush who kind of retreated to Texas. He's already said that he's going to play a big role in this grouping put together by Eric Holder to deal with redistricting. So I don't think - I think a lot of democrats are looking to President Obama to be the leader of their party still, and, you know, well, I think the White House is cognizant of the fact that they want to make room for other people in the other party to emerge. Certainly, we're now going to see President Obama stepping away from the spotlight.
KING: Republicans learned the mistake of underestimating Donald Trump. He wiped the floor with them in the primaries. Have democrats now learned that the President seemed to be suggesting there that he said that - he said that which leaves you to believe that he thinks some democrats still need some persuasion, that you better take this guy seriously. I know how hard it is to run and win. He did it.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, THE FEDERALIST SENIOR WRITER: I think for sure people need convincing on that. But look, it's tough, he is incredibly unconventional. It took me through the primaries and much of the general to figure this out. The other thing about the President, his influence -- post-president, I think, he does want to have a political post-presidency and be in the mix, but he - and he is popular, but he has been personally popular as opposed to some of the policies being popular. And so, I think, his -- and something he's acknowledged is that the transference has been difficult, and I think, that will -- that may tend to continue to be a problem after this election. KING: On that - on that point, let's listen to more of that interview
with 60 Minutes, because to that point, the President - the President tries to make the case here that the product was great. He just didn't sell it quite right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:34:50] OBAMA: Because this is on me. Part of the job description is also shaping public opinion, and we were very effective, and I was very effective in shaping public opinion around my campaigns, but there were big stretches while governing where even though we were doing the right thing, we weren't able to mobilize public opinion firmly enough behind us to weaken the resolve of the republicans to stop opposing us or to cooperate with us, and there were times during my presidency where I lost the PR battle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, he calls it losing the PR battle, and you can certainly make the case he lost the PR battle on ObamaCare, even though they passed it. You know, it states so controversial and republicans would never help buy in to helping him fix it. Republicans say no, republican say to your point, republican say no, no, no, no. They might like you Mr. President, they might like the images of your family in the White House, they might like the way you conducted yourself in office, but they don't like your ideas. Who's right? A little bit of both?
RAJU: That's the debate within the democratic. I mean, the democrats have not acknowledged that they are the fault, blame for the election losses. They're blaming it on what happened in Russia, they're blaming it on the Clinton e-mail scandal, they're blaming it --
KING: Compelling economic message - compelling economic messages from the democratic candidate for president might have helped.
RAJU: Exactly. Not - exactly. Not having an economic message, but rarely do you see them talking about message -- I mean, talking about their policy. It's about how they deliver the message. They said that same -- they have the same comment 2014 when they lost, the mid- terms as well. So, what does this mean for Democratic Party going forward? I think that is the real challenge for the party. They have - they have not yet acknowledged that any of their policies were to blamed. It's how they messaged things going forward. So I don't think you'll see as much a shift within the party.
KING: Listen to the President here, he gave a farewell speech in Chicago, even though he's going to have a final press conference, I think, on Wednesday. So saying goodbye is taking a while. I don't blame him. You know, you get the White House for eight years, might as well use it to the last minute. But listen to him here. This is the President's commentaries I think on this sort of social media new world environment we live in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: It's become safer to retreat into our own bubbles whether in our neighborhoods or on college campuses or places of worship or especially our social media feeds, Surrounded by people who look like us and share the same political outlook and never challenge our assumptions. Increasingly, we become so secure in our bubbles that we start accepting only information, whether it's true or not, that fits our opinions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: There's no question, especially if you listen to or read the before and after part of the speech, he was trying to send a message to Donald Trump to respect your critics, have an open mind about these things, don't just go and disparage people on Twitter and elsewhere. If they say something which - but that's also a message I think to democrats, too, right? To your point, like, if we just believe ourselves, and guess what, the American people tell us thump.
PACE: And Obama has been guilty of that as well during his presidency. I've sat through many a press conference and many a speech with Obama where he goes pretty aggressively at republicans and essentially says I'm right and they are wrong. He hasn't always been the kind of person who looks to pass legislation through bipartisan means. Now, that has been difficult for him at times, given republican opposition, but this is something that both parties are guilty of. I'm not sure that Trump is sending any signal that this will change going forward, but some of this will be up to democrats. I think that democrats are -- have the biggest choices ahead of them. Republicans have an easier choice. You have a republican President and you have republican control of congress, you can drive that. Democrats have a much bigger decision about whether they are going to even entertain the idea of not just voting for Trump legislation but just simply talking to his administration.
KING: Interesting point, everybody sit tight. We're going to continue on. Next, republicans are about to assume full control of Washington -- that's a big deal, but that doesn't mean they agree on just how to use all of that power. And as we go to break, inauguration preview, courtesy of President Alec Baldwin? And Saturday Night Live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN, AMERICAN ACTOR: We've also got some huge A-list actors coming, like Angelina Jolie, Ryan Gosling and Jennifer Lawrence. They will all be at my inauguration courtesy of Madam Tussauds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:40:00] KING: No, you didn't sleep until Friday. That's just a rehearsal Sunday morning outside the United States Capitol getting ready for the inauguration of the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, comes up this Friday in the noon hour. How would you like to be the stand-in right there? You see at the top of the stairs? Those are the stand-ins for the Obamas and Trumps coming down the stairs with military escort. It's a great time in Washington, D.C., a very political time as well, but it's always great to watch the preparations for the ceremonies get under way. We'll see how it plays out on Friday.
All right. Let's come back inside here. Candidate Donald Trump promised a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border and he promised a 1950- style deportation force to round up and kick out undocumented immigrants. But his choice for Homeland Security Chief is skeptical of walls, as the most effective means of securing the border. And the top republican in congress, well, speaker Ryan strikes a very different tone on deportations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that I should be deported and many of families in my situation? Should --
PAUL RYAN, UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES SPEAKER: No. And hell -- first of all, I can see that you love your daughter and you're a nice person who has a great future ahead of you, and I hope your future is here. When people get confidence in this country that our border is secured, that our laws are being enforced, then I really believe the country, all people in the country, will be in a much better position to fix these thornier bigger problems, but if you're worried about, you know, some deportation, you know, force coming and knocking on your door this year, don't worry about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I mean, one way to put this, I guess, is one of the biggest questions in Washington. We're a week away, five days away from a new President. Who's on first in the sense, that you know, what's operative? Speaker Paul Ryan saying there's no way we'll pass the deportation force, General Kelly saying, you know, a single barrier like the wall is not the most effective means of defending the territory? Do we know the answer or is this part of the Trump paradox we're going to find out as we go along?
RAJU: Sometimes people are projecting what they want Donald Trump to say and do. I mean, Paul Ryan has a much more liberal, more moderate view of immigration policy than Donald Trump (INAUDIBLE) in the campaign trail, even in that town hall from last week, Paul Ryan suggesting that Donald Trump would not revoke the deferred action, probe deportation for people who came the so-called dreamers, who would came here at a young age illegally.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But we don't - yes, we don't know. And - but he's saying that because Donald Trump has promised him that in private meetings? You had these cabinet secretaries up on the Hill and they were saying things -- and I thought democrats actually did not do a god job and say let me stop you, sir, for a minute? Did Donald Trump tell you that? Does Donald Trump agree with you on that? That part was missing from the confirmation hearings, because they went out - [08:45:09] Let's just listen to a little bit over here. Some of these
cabinet picks went in completely different directions than candidate Donald Trump. The question is, will President Trump agree with them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset, not a liability.
JAMES MATTIS, UNITED STATES NOMINEE FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: I would consider the principal threats with to start with Russia.
REX TILLERSON UNITED STATES NOMINEE FOR SECRETARY OF STATE: We're not likely ever to be friends.
TRUMP: Would I approve waterboarding, you bet your ass I'd approve it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely improper and illegal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
JOHN KELLY, UNITED STATES NOMINEE FOR DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I don't think we should ever come close to crossing a line that is beyond what we as Americans would expect to follow in terms of interrogation techniques.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: So who's - again, who's on first -- and it is commendable as a management style if you bring in a whole lot of people with strong people of stature, people with credibility, who have different views and you have good debates and then the President makes a decision. But the big question is on so many of these important issues, we're not sure. Is he going to stick to his campaign view or is he evolving because of his team is bringing in?
HAM: Well, I for one, like having those folks there who are willing to push back and many of them not exactly shrinking violets like Mattis and Rex Tillerson, so that's good.
KING: Republicans in congress, even democrats say they're grateful for that. They say, it is like, "Oh my God, we're so afraid of Trump, this is great." Again, give -- we'll see what happens but I think the President-elect deserves some credit for bringing in people (INAUDIBLE).
HAM: And I think it also maybe an issue by issue thing. That's why I tried to pay attention to what he has been consistent on over many years, trade being one of those things, China and his sort of sanguine view of Russia, being the three things. Even immigration, a couple years ago, he was saying more liberal and moderate things than even republicans in congress. So that one I'm not sure where he'll end up. And I think on that issue in particular, people on a gut level trust him to do the security. And so, it becomes less about exactly what that policy looks like. I may be wrong about that, but I think and it's going to be issue by issue, which things he's dedicated to being in the mix on.
LERER: But I also think he underscores the politics here a little bit. Like Donald Trump is not walking in the door with this huge mandate. He's extremely unpopular for a President-elect in a honeymoon phase, and he lost the popular vote. And you do get the sense from telling to voters that a lot of people voted for him because, you know, they want to shake up the system where they really, really, really didn't like Hillary Clinton. And I think that's a political dynamic that people - republicans on the Hill, particularly in the senate, where they have to run statewide understand, and that's part of what's being reflected here, that some of these -- the specifics of these policies are not where the country is.
PACE: One thing that we talked about a little bit earlier is the idea of multiple power centers in Donald Trump's orbit, and you cannot underestimate the power centers in the White House. And when you talk to some of these people who have worked for Donald Trump on the campaign for a long time, they believe -- they don't buy this literally versus however you want to describe, you know, how people take his opinions. They believe he has to follow through on some of these big promises, on immigration. They believe there needs to be an actual physical wall, and that if he does something short of that, it will be a failed promise.
Republicans on the Hill look at this a little differently and things that he just wants to claim victories and that he'll be willing to sign whatever they pass, but this conflict between republicans and maybe some of the more temperamentally moderate people in his cabinet versus some of these political advisers in the west wing is going to be one of the most fascinating pivot point of this administration.
KING: And we're days - and we're days away from this and a lot of people in Washington are confused. Right? Is Rex Tillerson speaking for Donald Trump or Rex Tillerson? General Mattis is speaking General Mattis of for the new Trump administration? Donald Trump says you'll get -- I'll tell you eventually.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, that all gets straightened out. We want them to be themselves and I told them. Be yourselves and say what you want to say. Don't worry about me, and I'm going to do the right thing, whatever it is, I may be right and they may be right, but I said be yourselves. What do you say, Steve? Let them do it. I could have said do this, say that, I don't want that. I want them all to be themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Steve Harvey found that a little funny. I just love - I just love the idea. And again, this is his style. Get used to it. I may be right and they may be right. Putin maybe a good guy, Putin may be a bad guy.
RAJU: But the problem - the problem is though that they'll send conflicting messages out of the administration and what is the policy of the United States and what does republicans - what do republicans in congress take from these conflicting messages? That's a real recipe for disarray?
LERER: Not just republicans but the world.
RAJU: Right. Yes.
KING: During a transition, you can kind of get away with it, although people are on edge in this town and around the world, that's where it began. But you're right, once you're President, a little more clarity might be helpful. Our reporters shares from their notebooks next -- including why there may be a lot of empty White House desks when Donald Trump moves in on Friday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:50:00] KING: Welcome back. We surround our table every Sunday with reporters not pundits close by asking them to reach into their notebooks, share a nugget or two, get you out ahead of the big political news to come. Julie Pace?
PACE: Trump seamlessly kept a lean team on his campaign and there was something that his operation really prided itself on, virtually one compared to the big Hillary Clinton campaign staff. But there are some people in his transition team and current government officials who worry that he's applying that same standard to his White House. The big-name jobs are obviously filled, but at the National Security Council and some of the other White House agencies, people are expecting a lot of empty desks when he moves in on Friday. Again, this isn't something that the public will always see, but these behind-the-scenes jobs at the White House are really crucial to keeping operations running, especially in crisis moments.
KING: Watch the personnel front. Manu.
RAJU: John, senate republicans are prepared to do whatever it takes to confirm Donald Trump's Supreme Court nominee, including invoking the nuclear option which means, of course, changing the senate rules to make it 51 votes to overcome a filibuster rather than the 60 votes. It still exists. Now, democrats when they changed the rules in 2013, they left in place the rule for filibustering Supreme Court nominees, and at the time republicans criticized him relentlessly. But now that it's happened, republicans say it could happen once again.
I talked to senate republican leaders including Senator John Cornyn, who said that, first, I'm going to try to pick off moderate dems, red state dems, and if those don't decide to vote with Donald Trump's nominee, just wait for the nuclear option to be a possibility so watch for that fight to really shape up because they're going to do whatever it takes to get Donald Trump his nominee.
KING: More evidence we're off to a kumbaya bipartisan start here. Lisa?
LERER: On the campaign trail, Donald Trump frequently brought out Wall Street bank Goldman Sachs as a weapon when he used against Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton, even Edward Snowden cast the raises of choice between Donald Trump and Goldman Sachs.
[08:55:00] Now, he's turning to the bank for advice. In the past since he's come in to become the President-elect he's tapped six advisers from the bank. His aides say that there's no hypocrisy here, that it's different working for the bank and the actual bank are different things. We'll have to see if voters in congress agree. Former Goldman Sachs partner Steve Mnuchin is going to be getting his confirmation hearing on Thursday. So we'll see whether this comes up.
KING: Draining the swamp comes to mind. Mary Katharine?
HAM: Well, I heard from two people in New York yesterday that they were polled about mayoral issues in New York City and that one of the questions was a head-to-head with de Blasio and Hillary Clinton. (INAUDIBLE) with some public polling company and not Clinton allies or some secret push, but Hillary Clinton, should she want to do that, should have some data in the near future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very excited.
KING: Close with - oh, yes, very excited. Up close with these republicans are watching with considerable curiosity as the Trump team sets up a unique political operation. Trump has made his choice to lead the Republican National Committee and Trump loyalists are now setting up a new super PAC to support his agenda. Absolutely nothing unusual there. That's the way things work nowadays. But the President-elect also announced a Presidential campaign committee this week based at Trump Tower in New York. It will be led by Trump campaign operative Michael Glassner. It is unusual to get started on a re-election campaign before the inauguration.
So the announcement raised some questions in the republican establishment. Is it yet another competing power center in Trump land? There are many. Is it a place to keep people who worked hard for Trump on the campaign but aren't welcome in Washington? That's what some people think. Too soon to answer the questions, but it is another reminder that just about everything this President-elect does is at least a little different.
That's it for us. Thanks for sharing your Sunday morning. INSIDE POLITICS also live every weekday at noon for the early weeks of this big new year, including the very big week ahead. Hope to see you then. Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper.
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