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Inside Politics
Trump: U.S. "Effectively Ridding the World of ISIS"; Egyptian- American Aid Worker Freed From Cairo Prison; Trump Reassuring China to Act on North Korea; House Intel Sets New Russia Hearing For May 2nd; Obama Planning First Post-presidency Event; Clinton, Pelosi, Sanders Urge Fight Against Trump; GOP Unleashes Attack Ads for a GA House Runoff; Pelosi Confident Dems Can Take House in 2018; Sources: U.S. to Seek Arrest of WikiLeaks Founder. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired April 21, 2017 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:03] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: -- the more the president spoke. Listen here as he opens the door to perhaps helping some in the fight against ISIS militants who dominate western Libya.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do see a role in getting rid of ISIS. We're being very effective in that regard. We are effectively ridding the world of ISIS. I see that as a primary role and that's what we're going to do, whether it's in Iraq or in Libya or anywhere else. And that role will come to an end at a certain point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's fascinating when you listen. The first answer was black and white, no role. We're doing enough in the world, we're not doing this. But then he opens the door and it's yet another example of trying to -- can anyone tell me exactly what the policy is when it comes to Libya?
CAROL LEE, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: You don't really know. I mean, obviously he can't leave out the Islamic state. He has to say that the U.S. will go places to combat the Islamic state. One of the questions that he raised in his comments was whether he was saying the U.S. was going to withdraw in terms of helping politically negotiate a stable government in Libya. The U.N. backed government is one that the U.S. has strongly supported. And so there's all kinds of questions now about whether he meant that or he just meant, you know, we're not going to go in and do some robust military action in Libya.
MOLLY BALL, THE ATLANTIC: Well, this is one of a number of issues in which the administration has sent very perplexingly mixed signals. If you remember just the other day on the Iran deal there seemed to be cross wires or at least some nuance in terms of what the stance was on the Iran deal that he promised to get rid of as a candidate. And so I think for a lot of our allies is included. But a lot of foreign governments are just perplexed, because it's very hard to know where this administration stands on a lot of things. KING: And the president likes that when it comes to people like Kim Jong-Un, people like Bashar al-Assad. He wants people who are viewed as foes if you will to be nervous -- to be a little nervous but when your allies are off balance that makes them a little nervous. I wanted to just get more of it, we can show you the tape of this probably questions about the president's foreign policy.
One of the criticisms when the leader of Egypt was here a few days back was that the president didn't publicly bring up human rights at all. This here is an American aid worker Aya Hijazi. She was released. She was released from prison in Egypt. She's now back home in the United States. She gets a meeting with the president in the oval office.
She had been in prison for years with charges what the administration believes, what the United States back to the Obama administration believed were trumped up charges in Egypt. The president was criticized by human rights groups for not publicly chastising President Sisi. He was publicly criticized by those human rights for letting him into the White House.
President Obama would not meet with him at the White House because of the human rights abuses and other anti-democratic abuses in Egypt. How do we rank this one? The president -- Sean Spicer saying -- told the president of Egypt while he was here, this is important to me and she's home.
LEE: I think that for right now this washed away some of the concerns that were raised about him not raising human rights and his embrace of Sisi. But it's -- the question is, what's next? What did he get or give in return and where does this relationship go? And we just don't know yet.
KING: That's another example of what's next, right with Libya? What is exactly is Egypt? What exactly is in that? But the criticism has been that there have been transactional steps, air strikes in Syria, dropping the bomb in Afghanistan that some people view as successes, tactical successes, important statements, but what's the strategy?
LEE: It's a collection of one offs right now.
PERRY BACON, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: Well, here's a two things. He wants you to pay more for NATO. He's made that clear thousands of times to this point and he wants to fight ISIS too. And beyond that, every issues seems to be an evolving, what do I think? What does Tillerson think? What did Haley think? It seems like everything else is up for negotiation.
KING: It's a transaction --
BALL: Including the relationship with Russia (inaudible). It was so consistent on the campaign trail about becoming friends with Russia and that definitely hasn't happened.
KING: Right. And another one is than Kim Jong-Un, North Korea. The president has asked, he mentioned this earlier and we talked about this story. He promised on day one to label China a currency manipulator.
He promised a whole host of other trade sanctions against China, actions, more aggressive actions to what he believe is -- he called it "rape" during the campaign, China's trade practices in the United Stated. Now, a very muted tone, very friendly tone, because the president is asking for help with North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I actually told him, I said, you'll make a much better deal on trade if you get rid of this menace or do something about the menace of North Korea because that's what it is. It's a menace right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How is this transaction going to turnout is the question.
LEE: He's really setting the expectations very high for what China can do. And there are a number of people including the president himself who said it's not clear exactly how much power China has over to change the North Korea dynamic. And so, he's really relied on there and acts on that. He's going to boxed himself in to taking some sort of more aggressive action.
So, China is our fire wall and if that doesn't work out and it's not clear that it will, because the Obama administration very much struggled with this too. Then you don't know where it goes from there.
KING: And the president tweeting on this again today, "China is very much the economic life line to North Korea. So while nothing is easy, if they want to solve the North Korean problem, they will."
[12:35:01] The question is always been, where is China's line. What if China does not want to destabilize the regime in North Korea? China does not want to unify Korea, you know, under a democratic and a friendly pro-American unified (inaudible).
So, where's the line for China I think is the question that President Trump is trying to answer. President Obama tried to answer. President George W. Bush tried to answer. President Clinton tried to answer.
JACKIE KUCINICH, THE DAILY BEAST: But even -- I mean, so not many candidates have a lot of foreign policy knowledge going into this job. But we're seeing again, this is he's learning on the job here and more so than you've seen in the past because didn't seem like there's any reparation. That's the deal with these world leaders to look at these problems and realize that, we saw it with Syria, where he was shocked about the chemical weapons use. Now, we're seeing it with China as well. It's a lot more complicated over there than I thought and we're seeing this president learn on the job alive and on television.
BACON: (Inaudible) in a meeting of this with the Chinese president but it appears he moved Trump in some ways. If you notice the rhetoric, the anti-China rhetoric has went away. He's quoted him a few times now, now refer to his ideas. It seems like that meeting particularly stuck in his head on some level and really changed and sort of gave him more new ounce of views about what China's role in the world. And why maybe China bashing is not done by presidents all the time.
BALL: Well look, we don't know how all this is going to turnout out, right. So it's possible that a year from now, we will be looking at, you know, best case scenario. Good relations with China that have also achieved some of his goals on trade and the de-escalation North Korea. And we can look back and say, wow, all of that tough talk was his initial negotiating position and look where it ended up getting. So, you know, we don't know where this is all going to go.
KING: But this footnote this week, you're probably right, this is somewhat foreign policy related more to the Russian election meddling investigation. The House permanent select Committee on Intelligence and Investigation that has gone off the rails a couple of times, now has a new chairman for the investigation part of it. Putting out a press release saying, that Director James Comey of the FBI, National Security Adviser Mike Rogers have been invited to a closed meeting on May 2nd. Remember that was the plan before the investigation went off the tracks.
And also a second letter being sent for CIA director John Brennan, former CIA director, former director of National Intelligence and James Clapper, and former deputy General Sally Yates to appear at an open public hearing some time in May. So those were two things that the Democrats in the committee very much to want to have last month. Disagreements with the Republican chairman of the committee was now step aside, cause this to go off track. We'll see, maybe that investigation back on track.
Up next, Hillary Clinton delivers a pep talk and Nancy Pelosi plots a comeback. The voices of the Democrats future are so far very familiar.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:41:24] KING: Welcome back. President Obama on Monday ends his post-election hibernation or you might say his post-election series of really excellent vacations. The 44th leader of the free world makes his first public appearance since leaving office. It will be at the University of Chicago wherein his previous life he was a law professor.
The event is being built as a conversation on community organizing and civic engagement. We will see the president on Monday. In his absence, Democrats have, to put it modestly, struggled to find a person who can lead the party out of the wilderness. Yes, it's early, 2018, not sure quite yet, 2020, still a long way off. But, what's old is not new again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I know the election hit a lot of us hard. But I can tell you this. Even when it feels tempting to pull the covers over your head, please keep going.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: A great Texan, Ann Richards, used to say, "You can put lipstick on a sow and call her Monique, and she's still a pig." That's what this bill is. It's the same terrible bill.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC ANCHOR: Do you consider yourself a Democrat?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: No. I'm an independent and I think if the Democratic Party is going to succeed and I want to see it succeed. It's going to have to open its doors to independents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(OFF-MIC)
KING: Yes. We spent a lot of time earlier in the program on the, you know, on the Republicans having a hard time getting the governing act together. The Democrats had their own set of dysfunction and disarray. And I don't mean to beat up on the public service of Secretary Clinton nor leader Pelosi or Bernie Sanders being an independent while he's out on tour trying to help the Democratic Party rebuild (inaudible).
But if you look at the leadership of the party, who is the State Senator Barack Obama? Who is the new face?
BACON: To be fair, in 2005, I don't think I knew Barack Obama will be president four years later so I think it is hard (inaudible) to know who the leader is. They're doing well right now in part of the Democrats because they're opposing things. They're good at blocking Obama -- of the new ObamaCare bill there. It's (inaudible), they're having these marches and you know, anti-Trump is a great organizer function.
KING: What about the Republican little tea party.
BACON: Yes. Exactly. So the main work -- but at some point there will have to be a voice of the Democrats. You still have to win those who voted for Trump to sort of moderate the more swing Trump as we still not sure if they're going to vote for the Democratic candidate in 2018 (inaudible) particularly in 2020. I think you still have to find those the positive vision of the Democratic Party still.
KUCINICH: But their auditions are open. And you are seeing some of these folks particularly in the senate, Elizabeth Warren, (inaudible) for example, Kirsten Gillibrand. They are auditioning, there are books coming out. They are promoting the books and but they don't -- no one writes books for their health.
BACON: But little right (inaudible) --
BALL: But I do think -- where at this point the leader of the Democratic Party is Donald Trump because it is the anger at him that is really energizing there their base. The question is that anger going to stay at its current fever pitch. And you know, the results out of Georgia in the special election this week were very much sort of tea leaves for that and the result was I think sort of middling
You know it was very to tell because, you know, he didn't win out right which would have been an enormous signal in favor of the Democrats as anti-Trump party. But he also did better than you probably would have expected for someone in that district.
[12:45:03] KING: You mentioned that race, the Georgia's special election. Now, it's in a two month runoff to see what happens and the Republicans are happy, they got a runoff. They think they can hold the seat now but they did get a scare. In part of their way to go against Jon Ossoff, who was the Democratic candidate, now he will be the Democratic candidate to run where he's trying to get a 50 percent.
We just showed Nancy Pelosi, Leader Pelosi, she is now the boggy woman if you will for Republicans. A, trying to raise money, and B, when they're trying to take down a candidate. Look at these ads.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDINTIFIED MALE: Ossoff lived and worked with the liberals in Washington. That's why Nancy Pelosi and her allies are pouring millions into his campaign. The truth is Nancy Pelosi's friends are bank rolling Ossoff's campaign because Ossoff will (inaudible) for liberal agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALL: And this is not a new strategy. Republicans have been doing this since 2010 making Nancy Pelosi the villain. But they wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't work and it really does get their base out.
LEE: That's right. And he's trying -- and the candidate is trying not to get sucked into that. He's talking very much about compromise and you know.
KING: Local issues and the like. And that race was as you mentioned, had the Democrats won, it would have given them some confidence heading into 2018 even though we often over read the results (inaudible) special election or not. But if you want to take -- Nancy Pelosi wants to be speaker again. She wants to be speaker again.
Can she get there? Does the math work? She thinks maybe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EVAN SMITH, TEXAS TRIBUNE CEO: Are there enough winnable races in 2018 around the country to take back the House?
PELOSI: Yes indeed. If it were today I feel very confident. It's not today.
SMITH: Not today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALL: This is also not a new talking point for Nancy Pelosi who said the Democrats were going to win the House in 2012 and 2014 and 2016.
KUCINICH: Hopes spring eternal.
BALL: -- all of which -- but in every instance it was almost impossible for that to happen. So, I wouldn't necessarily take that as a statement.
BACON: The president with a 40 percent approval rating, he's easy to runs against. She stands at a 40 percent (inaudible).
KING: But in any other organization with that track record, you would have a new leader. But they have their own dysfunction in the top and plus she's the one who can raise money. She's the only who can raise money on the scale that she does.
BALL: And that's why they keep her. But there are a fair number of Democrats in the House to -- and she got quite a lot of votes against her in fact to be leader remarkably this time. And there are a fair number of Democrats in the House who do wish she would move on and allow a new generation just to start taking it.
KUCINICH: But a lot of the new generation has taken to the exits. Look at Chris Van Hollen, he's in the Senate now, Xavier Becerra is now back home in California. So there is a little bit of brain drain going on in the Democratic caucus.
KING: That looks for other opportunities not in the House at the moment. We'll watch this one. Everybody sit tight again, please.
Coming up, he loves them, he loves them not. President Trump loved WikiLeaks on the campaign trail but his White House says Julian Assange maybe should go to jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:51:48] KING: Welcome back. You probably remember this. Candidate Donald Trump was a big fan of WikiLeaks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks. By the way, did you see another one? Another one came in today. This WikiLeaks is like a treasure trove.
And by the way, WikiLeaks just came out with lots of really unbelievable things just minutes ago. In fact, I almost delayed this speech by about two hours, it's so interesting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That was then. This is now, the Trump Justice Department exploring whether a criminal case can be made against WikiLeaks for revealing reams of U.S. government secrets. Attorney General Jeff Sessions says he can't comment specifically about WikiLeaks or its leader Julian Assange. But listen as the attorney general does make clear sensitive leaks of information has his attention. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, it is a priority. We've already begun to step up our efforts and whenever a case can be made we will seek to put some people in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Couple of things here. One, just the tone shifts between candidate Trump loving WikiLeaks and the Trump administration lashing out, using very tough language and now apparently looking to build a criminal case that tell us one thing. But on the substance, pretty big challenge as Julian Assange says we're publishers.
We're just receiving this information. We have in your country First Amendment rights to this. So, can they make a case? I guess is part of the case to make a case you have to get that they were involved in the illegal conduct that brought the leaks not just receiving the information.
BACON: Right. To me the core question is WikiLeaks like the New York Times, like the Washington or like 530 news organizations has happened to publishing things that are sometimes obtained secretly or maybe in notorious ways or is WikiLeaks involved in stealing things from the government. The government I assume would have to prove the case more, the latter. That like Assange and others that really like grabbing information illegally. They're more like Edward Snowden (inaudible) than the New York Times (inaudible) are.
LEE: This started with -- in part with the CIA director saying that WikiLeaks is a non-state hostile intelligence service.
KING: Right.
LEE: And so you could see them laying the ground work for trying to move forward some sort of prosecution. But, you know, the President is learning that WikiLeaks is not really fun when you're president and you have classified national security secrets that are being published uncensored by a website. And it will be very interesting to see how they try to build this case against him.
But this is also another instance where there's clear tape on him saying one thing and then getting in office and saying something else.
BALL: It's almost as if politicians disingenuously take positions on the campaign trail that appeal to voters --
LEE: What?
BALL: -- that they don't actually intend to carry out. But I do think that what the CIA Director Pompeo who also was reversing himself from the campaign. It also appears to be an attempt to make nice with the intelligence community and see refreshment with the intelligence community that I -- was -- that Trump was so antagonistic to when he first came in. KING: Right. To that, let's listen to Mike Pompeo who just in a speech a week or so ago, made crystal clear that he thinks WikiLeaks is not just an enemy but a threat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: Julian Assange and his kind are not the slightest bit interested in improving civil liberties or enhancing personal freedom. They have pretended that America's First Amendment freedoms shield them from justice.
[12:55:05] They may have believed that, but they are wrong. Assange is a narcissist who has created nothing of value. He relies on the dirty work of others to make himself famous. He's a fraud, a coward hiding behind a screen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He doesn't love WikiLeaks.
KUCINICH: (Inaudible) has particularly of what WikiLeaks recently did to turn the tide on this and to really remake their messaging from that campaign, because -- yes.
KING: They make this public case. The question is can they make a legal case. That's a pretty high bar, top bar. But they're at the work. We'll see what they do.
That's it for Inside Politics. Hope to see you Sunday morning. And I'm back here on Monday. Have a great weekend. News continues after a quick break with my colleague Wolf Blitzer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow, 1:00 a.m. Saturday in Beijing. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
We start with Russian bears coming close to Alaska. The incursion by the so-called bear bombers marks the fourth time this week that Russian military plans have come close to the Alaskan coast.
The first couple times, United States scramble jets to keep an eye on those Russian flights. So let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Ryan Browne, he's --
