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Inside Politics

Soon: Trump Leaves on First Presidential Trip Abroad; Trump to Deliver Speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia; Pence: Trump Made "Right Decision" on Comey Firing; Source: Pence "Loyal Soldier" But Tiring of News Cycle; Nixon Then, Trump Now: Investigation is a Witch Hunt. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 19, 2017 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: -- It was set aside but the president said not all that along ago that the kingdom is weak and would collapse without the United States military support. Oh, and there's this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It wasn't the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center. We went after Iraq, we decimated the country, Iran is taking over, OK. But it wasn't the Iraqis. You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center because they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it's the Saudis OK but you will find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: After Saudi Arabia, Israel is next. This fresh anger there that the president shared top secret Israeli intelligence with the Russians a few days back and they also know this promise will not be kept anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will move the American embassy to the eternal capital of the Jewish people, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Later in the nine day trip, there's a big NATO summit too. And leaks out of the White House in recent days said some Allies worried again the president still might think this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: NATO is obsolete. It was 67 years or it's over 60 years old. It is many countries, doesn't cover terrorism, OK? It covers the Soviet Union which is no longer in existence and NATO has to either be (inaudible) re-change, you know, changed for the better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is just hard to overstate that the interesting issues that are going to come up on this trip, the first time for this president, the fact that it happens when he's in the tank politically and in some trouble back here at home. Let's go around the table and just sort of what are you most looking for on this trip?

ABBY PHILIP, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, you know, what's been interesting talking to people, foreign leaders, diplomats, that sort of thing. There is sort of a deep well of ability to put aside Trump's rhetoric from the campaign and just deal with the Trump of now. Because they see all of this as an improvement on the past.

They agree, all of the stuff that Trump said during the campaign not good. But if Trump is moving in the right direction, a lot of people are willing to accept that. And I think the Saudis are definitely in that camp. They're like, whatever he said about us six months ago, eight months ago, whatever. If he's willing to go hard against Iran, we can deal with that, we can work with that. So that's where we are right now.

KING: And that's why they give us weapons and not complain if we used them in Yemen against the rebels. You know, that's another thing the Saudis like. Saudis also don't mind the family business part of it. Some people -- you know, some people -- I don't see that officially in the sense -- especially when you're in the Middle East. Now these monarchies are all family businesses and have been for decades and decades.

LAURA MECKLER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I think that (inaudible) -- you wouldn't know it from watching Trump these days, but when you're in Washington you had a lot of control over the agenda. You're able to decide what happens. When you're on a foreign trip, you don't have that kind of control. You have your -- other countries or a summit to other nations say things that are uncomfortable for the United States.

You have to deal with a lot of other players that are their own actors and -- I mean, much tougher way really than Congress ever will be. So I think, you know, there's no doubt in my mind that Trump is going to try and probably largely succeed in sticking to the script of what his advisers have suggested he say in these very difficult situations. I don't really expect him to go and -- you know, go to NATO and say, you know, you guys are all of a bunch of free loaders.

I mean, it's not a campaign. He's not going to do that. But the question that I would be looking for is how is he going to react when something happens that is unexpected, when someone does something that cuts against U.S. interest and that, you know, he has to deal with it in a way that we haven't seen? And -- I mean, he got a lot of praise when he went to Mexico as a candidate. He was there for a couple hours and everything went fine.

Look, great, he can do the world stage. Well, there's a big difference between a, you know, a half day trip to Mexico as a candidate and nine-day trip to some of the most important places in the world as president.

KING: Right. And whether you're for him or against him (inaudible) having a big question mark, these trips are grueling. You're going to different time zones. You're doing (inaudible) diplomacy. It wears you out no matter whether you're 70-years-old or whether you're 30- years-old. It wears you out.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm struck by the stakes which are huge, and the bar which is low. And I don't mean that as a critique. I think when you talk to people in the foreign policy establishment, when you talk to people in ambassador shops here D.C. they say look, if he just kind of sticks to script, if he reads speeches that aren't inflammatory, if he continues his progression away from the campaign rhetoric, that will be a victory and that will be very appreciated at each stop.

Now, I do think your point is a crucial one. The exhaustion these strips for those of us who've been on them and those of us who talk to administration officials that deal with them is not a small thing. And the most -- and I think the president has an energy level that I've never seen before having covered his campaign. It's unbelievable but being in a different country, being in a different time zone, meeting after meeting after meeting where any slip could be an international incident is not a small thing.

And to say while the bar is low, the opportunities to screw up royally are huge. But I do think when you talk to people there is an understanding that if he comes in here and over the course of these nine days operates at a fine level, it will be a success. And that's I think what the administration is kind of looking at.

[12:35:09] KING: If it plays that out or reset the president (inaudible), given what's happened here in the last 10 days.

KAROUN DEMINJIAN, THE WASHINGTON POST: All right, exactly. I think that there's also -- there's this element of, you know, that adage of, you know, pay attention to what I say and not what I do. And you probably you have to turn that on your head (inaudible) when he's dealing with foreign entities because he's said a lot of things that could be upsetting to people, you know, like the leaders of Saudi Arabia but also human rights kind of out the window right now. Other things that they've been worrying about for a long time not really front and center for this administration.

And I think it's also really interesting to see what happens as he proceeds to this trip. Because there's going to be a more controlled environment in places like Riyadh and there will be in places like Brussels, right. So, who is going to be entering these experiences, these conferences, these discussions? Will he end up having to have any public sort of interactions in the west where it's a more open forum? That will be where this starts to go off script because there isn't actually a script that they can control and it's not an entirely trip.

KING: Yes. But also interesting we were focusing mostly on the president, but how the other leaders treat him. Just everyone said, there's a willingness to forgive and forget most of what happened during the campaign as long as you can do the business you want to do now. But we've seen this. Theresa May, the British prime minister, President Erdogan of Turkey just this week, very different people both did the same thing. They praised the president. They bring up his election victory and to try to pump the president up to try and get on his good side.

Peter Baker at the New York Times today wrote it this way. Tips for leaders meeting Trump, keep it short and give him a win. And he says, "Keep it short, no 30-minute monolog for a 30-second attention span. Do not assume he knows the history of the country. Compliment him on his Electoral College victory. Contrast him favorably with President Barack Obama."

This is like crib note for foreign policy but is it that simple?

PHILIP: We've seen it play out here in Washington. When world leaders come to the White House to meet with Trump, they do all of those things almost to a tee. And you'll hear it in their Oval Office handshakes, you'll hear it when they're on the podium congratulating the president on his enormous electoral victory.

I mean, it's something that they do because they understand that these small gestures are worth doing if it's going to get them an overall better relationship. Nobody wants a bad relationship with the United States. Nobody in this world stage can really afford that. And so that's why you're seeing so much grace being extended to Trump at this point.

KING: And a giant challenge. Sunday morning our time in Saudi Arabia, he's going to give a big speech where he's going to call on Islamic nations such as Saudi Arabia to join the United States in the fight of against terrorism. He's going to talk about combatting extremism. We're very interested to hear the language he uses.

Stephen Miller is helping him write the speech and that has a lot of people in that part of the world nervous because of Stephen Miller's first in the Senate and in the campaign when President Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think Islam hates us. There's something there that is a tremendous hatred there. There's a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There is an unbelievable hatred of us.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: In Islam itself?

TRUMP: You're going to have to figure that out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now again, there's an effort to turn the page, but those words cannot be forgotten.

DEMINJIAN: No, they can't be forgotten but he's also not going to a place where people are going to get in his face and challenge him on it necessarily. It's different to be -- Barack Obama went to Cairo to make his speech about Islam. Trump is going to Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia, everything is very, very tightly controlled society. The government decides, you know, when to use religion, when to not, when to make alliances with religious groups and when to not. And there isn't going to be like this (inaudible) of anything in Saudi Arabia because it's such a controlled country. Whereas if he went to any other regional capital granted -- limited options given the state of things in much of the Middle East. But if he went to another regional capital, he would have to risk that because they're actually even when there's not super open dialogue it's more open in Saudi Arabia.

KING: And a month six weeks ago you would have thought that Israel would be the one guaranteed great stop for the president on this trip because he has good relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu. But just the other day, he use some intelligence in the meeting with the Russians that are the Israelis aren't happy about. This is Jerusalem Post if you pull it up here, "Trump to Demand Prime Minister Curb Settlements." Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't like to be told what to do when it comes to settlements.

And also a post poll of the president's popularity plummeting among Jewish Israelis. So at every stop on this even when you think that's a friendly one there. So if he needs a break, that's a friendly -- every stop here has complications.

MECKLER: Absolutely. And, you know, he has chosen his itinerary for this first trip is an incredibly high stakes one to all of these places where they are complicated. You know, President Bush, his first trip was I believe to Mexico. President Obama's first trip was to Canada.

These are safe easy trips where you can, you know, at least maybe not as easy today with our trying to pull out of NAFTA but -- you know, so these are difficult situations. And, you know, in some these situations is also going to be like in NATO where he's around the table at the G7 with a lot of other leaders. And one of the things that -- I know that President Obama hated was he had to sit and listen to these people where they would talk on and on and on about their own agendas and it takes a lots -- and these are hour long meetings.

[12:40:03] I was kind of curious how President Trump is going to enjoy being seated, you know, (inaudible) with a translator to a long, long speeches by other politicians.

KING: And we've learned at these meetings just some open mic moments from time to time to trickle out while watching those. George W. Bush was kind enough to give Angela Merkel a massage (inaudible). What else?

MATTINGLY: When the Vatican isn't a safe haven visit based upon your history, it shows you this is a pretty thorny trip across the board, right. At the end of the nine-day trip you would think a visit and an audience with the Pope would be a time when you can finally exhale. But based on campaign history and Twitter fights with the Pope, that apparently is not the case here. And so I think it underscores kind of what everybody has been saying.

(CROSSTALK)

DEMINJIAN: I was just going to say I think one of the more interesting stops will actually be in Israel just because he said he can do so much and we're not sure exactly -- and there are so many other elements there. And then just the general culture shock. I mean, so many things are going to be --

KING: All presidents start down the Middle East path hopeful. And all the previous ones are painful (inaudible). It's been interesting (inaudible) the incoming from representatives, ambassadors. So the representatives of foreign governments (inaudible) are reaching out, is he really in that much trouble, is he going to survive? They are following the news here in the United States and their interest just (inaudible). It's going to be fascinating.

Up next, the president describes Mike Pence as his loyal right hand man. But is the vice president in the loop?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:29] KING: Mike Pence was chairman of the Trump presidential transition but says he was not aware of Michael Flynn's election year lobbying for Turkey until it was reported by the New York Times back in March. By then, Flynn had been fired as national security adviser intensively for lying to the vice president about something else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, let me say hearing that story today was the first I heard of it. And I fully support the decision that President Trump made to ask for General Flynn's resignation.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You're disappointed by the story?

PENCE: The first I heard of it and I think it is an affirmation of the president's decision to ask General Flynn to resign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: More recently, the vice president took a lead role in explaining why the boss fired FBI Director James Comey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: President Trump made the right decision at the right time. And to accept the recommendation of the deputy attorney general --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But we all know now that wasn't the real reason. Not even close. CNN Elizabeth Landers catalogs a tough stretch for the V.P. on CNN.com today and her piece includes this from a Pence adviser, quote, we knew we needed to be prepared for the unconventional, not to this extent.

What is the state of Pence land right now? You guys see him a lot on Capitol Hill. He's doing commencement speak this week. There's been some talk that he stepped back on purpose because he's a little tired. You could be tired from other work or you could be tired from all the undermining you might say.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I would say the most jarring thing in Liz Landers was embed with the Pence vice presidential campaign (inaudible) over at NBC was also embed with the Pence vice presidential campaign. Both of them have stories making very clear there is major frustration within Pence world about what's occurred over the last couple of days, last couple of weeks. Pence's team is smart, they're very smart team. That's not unintentional, right.

These are two very plugged in reporters who at the same exact time have frankly somewhat damaging stories about the relationship between the vice president and the president or at least their perception of what's going on right now. I think there's a lot of frustration. And I think when you see the vice president's role particularly on Capitol Hill which he plays very well and a lot of Republicans very much appreciate his willingness to spend a lot of time with them, take the time, work with them on legislative issues. The question becomes, how often is he going to continually be put in these situations? And I think that's where you're seeing the pressure (inaudible).

KING: And if you're in those meetings on Capitol Hill whether it's health care, tax reform, how to deal with the questions about these investigations, do members -- are they less likely now to trust what the vice president tells them thinking that's the president? That he's speaking for the president or is he speaking for Mike Pence?

DEMINJIAN: Or remember he's still got a relationship with a lot of people on Capitol Hill so I don't think that they don't trust him. But if the question is, is that actually the conduit directly to the decision maker or not, right. And that puts Pence and all the lawmakers in a very similar boat frankly because they're all trying to -- I mean, if we believe they're all speaking based on what they know as well as they can represent that, then the question is are they actually, you know, being equipped to do that based on the length it's supposed to be there between the president and the V.P.

KING: Right, there's a little bit of a damming quote from David Axelrod, a CNN contributor, a Democrat, so take it through that filter in the New York Times today in a piece about Pence. He says, "A lot of chips were piled on Pence as being the guarantor of the agenda and the guarantor of stability. It's certainly undercut by these interludes of no one ever told me. I never knew that." It's hard, Axelrod said, "to look like the prime minister and the man in the dark at the same time."

PHILIP: But I think folks on the Hill recognize Pence as being on a high wire act where he's trying to maintain his closeness to the president, and in order to do that he has to sort of give the party line sometimes. And he's dealing with an unpredictable boss. So I think a lot of people are giving him a little bit of leeway here to sometimes be wrong, sometimes be on the wrong side of stories, because they recognize that what Pence is doing smartly maybe for his benefit and also for this administration's benefit is keeping his foot in the door. He is staying in the room even if he is not always throwing his weight around in that room.

KING: And if you have in the back of your mind Pence 2024, you've got to protect your brand though. You've got to protect your brand because one of the questions as we go forward here. Up next, President Trump says he's the target of a witch hunt. Yes, history does repeat itself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:53:59] KING: Welcome back. Look at that right there. That's a headline that as just so yesterday except it's July 22, 1973. A Woodward and Bernstein, Washington Post scoop reprinted from the Washington Post in the Los Angeles Times, excuse me. Richard Nixon sees the Watergate investigation as a witch hunt. And that then President Nixon has a soul mate in our current president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I respect the move, but the entire thing has been a witch hunt. And there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I think the comparisons to the investigation of this president and Watergate are sometimes well over hyped, but it does tell you there is a play book. There is a play book that presidents, you know, pre-Twitter, pre-social media, pre-internet, almost pre-color television, but not quite use when they're under siege like this is you have to keep your political base so you say witch hunt.

[12:55:03] PHILIP: Although I will say -- I (inaudible) about this yesterday and he made it very clear. Richard Nixon was stewing privately about this. He thought he was being unfairly targeted, but he didn't actually voice a lot of this publicly. That story cites insiders for that witch hunt comment.

Donald Trump is taking everything Richard Nixon might have done privately that we now know about because of the Nixon tapes. And he's putting it on Twitter and on the front pages of newspapers. And that is the big difference.

MATTINGLY: To be fair, Richard Nixon didn't have Twitter so you have no idea what we would have done. I will note that in that same press conference, President Trump also referred to enemies in saying that even his enemies has said there was no collusion. Yes, there's a lot of similar language, but maybe don't follow the play book of the guy that had to resign, you know.

KING: We're being fun at the end here. We have this 1989 video of the two men actually together. Donald Trump, businessman, President Nixon retired in Houston. They were there for an even for John Conlee's birthday and a fundraiser. These pictures again from 1989, President Nixon there, Donald Trump with his first wife Ivana Trump there. Please (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

MECKLER: It seems like, you know, everybody has -- Donald Trump has been in a picture with just about everybody. All these pictures just keep cropping up.

KING: Thank the good Lord for libraries. Thanks for joining us for "Inside Politics", hope to see you Sunday morning otherwise back here Monday as well. President Trump is about to depart for his first trip abroad. Wolf Blitzer picks up our coverage after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES MATTIS, DEFENSE SECRETARY: So today is a good time to update you describing basically where were out, what is changed in the way ahead? President Trump directed the Department of Defense to lead all departments in a comprehensive review of --