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Scandal Allegations Mounting For EPA Chief Pruitt; Pruitt Dodges Questions About Employment Pay Raises; Special Master Appointed In Michael Cohen Proceedings; Sessions Defend Justice Department After Trump Criticism. Aired 12:30-1pm ET

Aired April 26, 2018 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:01] JOHN KING, INSIDE POLITICS HOST: Take a peek. How much time do you have? Scott Pruitt's $25,000 soundproof booth that's actually cost 43. He pay official sideline after questioning Scott Pruitt. Multiple headlines pouring in. There are more and more and more. I think you get the point when you watch all that.

The question is, is he safe in his job? One of the fascinating -- our White House team reporting that the White House offered him some help before this hearing and Scott Pruitt said no, because he thinks that at least several senior people inside the White House are trying to undermine him. And so he didn't want to take their advice suspecting it might be a trap.

SAHIL KAPUR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, BLOOMBERG: We're seeing some early cracks I think in Republican leadership support for Scott Pruitt. I spoke to number three Republican, John Thune, who said these are serious questions that he has to answer. It's going to be hard to answer. He called like a drip-drip out there and that's make it hard to be effective in his job.

Jim Inhofe, the Senator from Oklahoma, who has a kindred spirit that's got Pruitt ideologically on climate change, on fossil fuel, that sort of thing. That he'd be very disturbed that these allegations are true. There is no greater danger to President Trump and his party than the appearance of corruption and swampiness.

The magic of his candidacy was that voters believe him when he said he was too rich to be (INAUDIBLE) or corrupted. And the more these things come out, the more this drip, drip, drip comes out, the bigger danger, or the easier this for Democrats to run on this culture of corruption that Nancy Pelosi wants to.

JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ASSOCIATED PRESS: One thing though that Pruitt has on his side is that, well, it is true that senior officials at the White House would prefer for him to be gone because of the drip, drip, drip and they have communicated that to the President, the President had so far been unmoved.

KING: In another day when I covered the White House, Republican had a term for squishy, squirrelly, loyally answers. They called it Clintonian.

Listen to Scott Pruitt here. There's a pretty simple question. Two of your top aides got raises after the White House said don't give them those raises. Those two aides got raises because staff members of the EPA found a way around them in the financing system. He is the administrator. Did he know about it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PRUITT, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: Congressman, those were delegated to Mr. Jackson, and the inspector general did reference that in his management alert --

REP. PAUL TONKO (D), NEW YORK: You did authorize him, then, to sign them?

PRUITT: Those decisions -- that decision was made by --

TONKO: Yes or no? Did you authorize him?

PRUITT: There were delegations given on that authority. So that's a yes.

TONKO: I have to move along.

PRUITT: I was not aware of the amount, nor was I aware that -- of the bypassing or the PPO process not being respected.

TONKO: Well, then, I'm concerned that you have no idea of what is going on in your name at your agency, especially on an issue already under I.G. investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Why not, I'm the administrator, my chief of staff signed off on them, but I'm responsible, I'm accountable. The buck stops with me. Won't happen again. What's wrong with that?

PACE: Nothing is wrong with that, but he is taking his cues, and I think a lot of people in this administration take their cues from the President. You don't hear the President --

KING: So always 's someone else's fault.

KAPUR: Actually I have an intense sensitivity to feeling treated unfairly himself, which I think translating some of these situations. That's what you see with Ronny Jackson, you see it with Scott Pruitt. He, on some level, probably feels they're being treated unfairly and that maybe a blind spot that make it hard for him to distinguish whether these allegations are very serious and reflect purely on him.

KING: Republican run the House and they were on Senate. We have seen, you mentioned crack (ph) so and we have seen in recent weeks more Republicans saying it's time to do more oversight. It's an interesting dynamic in the election year. But in this committee hearing, for the most part, there were some questions about did Scott Pruitt retaliate against some agency employees who were in disagreement with him on things, that Republicans did as that.

But here's a sampling of your Congress at work, Republicans, again if these things are over height, lay it out. But we got this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAVID MCKINLEY (R), WEST VIRGINIA: I'm hoping we would be able to stay on policy today as much as we could, but I can see some just can't resist the lifeline, the opportunity to grandstand.

REP. JOE BARTON (R), TEXAS: If you can't debate the policies in Washington, you attack the personality. And that's what's happened to you.

REP. BILL JOHNSON (R), OHIO: Shameful today that this hearing has turned into a personal attack hearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SHEAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, look, it's very nice to say that everybody should just talk about policy and not talk about politics. But the White House itself, Sarah Sanders herself yesterday said Scott Pruitt is going to have to answer these questions. And, you know, part of what we will see in the next 24 hours or what have you is, did his answers today, to the Members of Congress, satisfy with the White House definition of answering these questions fully enough or not? And, you know, so to -- for Republicans to deflect and say, well, we wish we were talking about policy, that was never going to happen because this is Washington, but in addition the White House said he should answer these.

MARY KATHARINE HAM, SENIOR WRITER, THE FEDERALIST: Yes. And the problem with the Trump administration is there is not a top-down message of keep your nose clean and do your best job as possible. And there won't be that message. And so you get into these problems. I think he still has the support of President Trump which matters, and I think contrary to what you were saying, I think he still has the support of Trump voters because despite the allegations he is getting rid of the regulations and that is what they were signing on for --

[12:35:14] SAPUR: Absolutely. I would say the Trump, Obama crossover voters, from voters in state and home in 2016, you know, when the biology --

HAM: One more thing, this is a drip, drip, drip story, but we are leaving in a world of the (INAUDIBLE) flood of news. So I'm not sure that that gets always --

KING: It's a great point. Because Hugh Hewitt, you know, who's the conservative talk show host said that he did an event Saturday night in Cleveland. Mention of Pruitt sustained lot applause. Base understands as conservatives (INAUDIBLE) and approve of Trump refusing to be ruled. That's what Hugh Hewitt says.

The base does like the policy actions. But a number of lawmakers especially if you're in a swing area where you are in a competitive district, when they go home, you know, people see headlines that use the SUVs that flash the light so that he could get for a restaurant on time. You know, $43 soundproof booth. People find that excessive. Another thing is a first class trail.

Now sometimes it's necessary for cabinet secretary to fly and first pass so at least the business best taking a long trip. But you have to justify, you have to be transparent about.

Listen here, again, Congressman Joe Barton trying to Scott Pruitt through this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARTON: You've been attacked for flying first class. Is that illegal?

PRUITT: Congressman, that was a proof travel office in the security team at the EPA since made changes to that --

BARTON: But it's not illegal.

PRUITT: It is not.

BARTON: It may look bad but it's not illegal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: When you run for office, that could be your bumper sticker.

PACE: It may look bad.

KAPUR: They look bad. It's not illegal.

KING: If that's your best defense, it's time to think about your defense.

KAPUR: Yes. No, this is where his policy and idealogy will draw a lot of supporters and opponents. I totally agree with Mary Katharine on that. But I do think the issue of corruption hits very, very cleanly. People hate it.

And Trump was supposed to be the President outside --

SHEAR: But they only hate it if they believe it, right? And so much of the Trump base and so much of the people that he's trying to reach, they're hearing the headlines -- they're seeing and hearing the headlines that you put on the screen, but they're not believing them. They tune it all out because they think it's all just so much --

PACE: And this is a frustration for Democrats as they look toward the midterms that they see. All of this material that they think should be so right for campaign messaging, and they're just not sure that they have a way for it to break through.

KING: All right sometimes it's too much. Sometimes it seems to be too much. You had to pick your moments in focus. A quick break here.

When we come back, President Trump says he doesn't watch CNN, but it looks like he might have tuned in to our Jim Comey town hall last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will say this, Anderson Cooper was surprising tough and he did a good job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:42:02] KING: Two breaking news stories unfolding right now. you see the Senate floor right there. The Senate is now voting on the nomination of the current CIA Director Mike Pompeo to be the new Secretary of State. We expect Pompeo to be confirmed. We'll keep track in that vote. Take you back up to Capitol Hill as the votes were counted momentarily.

But first to New York, we told you at the top of the program, the President's long-term personal Attorney Michael Cohen back in federal court today to address what happens now that the Feds have sized his computer, his phone, documents and other materials from his law offices and from his home. Michael Cohen under federal investigation the judge in the case has just made a big decision.

Let's bring in CNN's Brynn Gingras. She's outside the courthouse. Brynn, what's going on?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, a big decision on how the handling of these documents is going to proceed now in this case. And the Judge, Kimba Wood, in this case, has decided to appoint a former Judge, Barbara King, as a special master to oversee these documents. To the degree of that, we're not quite sure. That's still coming out in court. But certainly this is a big development in this case because it allows the criminal investigation into Michael Cohen to proceed forward.

A little bit about the former Judge Barbara King. She was a U.S. district attorney for 16 years appointed to that position by President Bill Clinton back in 1995. Before that she served here as an Assistant District Attorney in the southern district of New York. She certainly has a familiarity with this court here in New York.

Now, a big thing, just some background for your viewers about this special master. This is a neutral person from the investigation, from the government, from Cohen's attorneys to oversee -- I said the wrong name, I'm just getting corrected in my ear, my apologies. Barbara Jones is the name of this judge. But this special master is a neutral position for this case, separate from the government, separate also from Cohen and his attorneys. And again, she will oversee how these documents move forward.

Cohen's attorneys actually wanted a special master in this case for these proceedings. The government first said that they didn't and then earlier today before court actually took place today, they said that they didn't mind. They took that back in a filing mainly because of that sort of interview that President Trump went on Fox News claiming that Cohen really didn't have many legal matters for him. And so that basically bolstered their case and that's why they argued they were OK with the special master.

So again, Barbara Jones the name of the special master appointed in this case here for Michael Cohen.

KING: Now we get to move forward moment (ph) assume. Brynn, outside the courthouse. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much for that update.

Let's get quickly to our Crime and Justice Reporter Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, put this into context for us in terms of what it means about I guess the speed and the process of the case now going forward?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's exactly right, John. I mean, this has to do with the speed and the process and moving this process forward. The prosecutors here feel that what the defense team wanted, what Michael Cohen's team wanted was going to completely delay their investigation and they wanted to move things forward.

[12:45:09] And so this morning they agreed sort of taking control of this investigation, these documents, deciding that a special master probably would be best. They told the judge that this morning. The judge clearly now agreeing. Perhaps maybe some of what the President said this morning may have played a role in this. We don't know yet. But we know that they did use his comments in their filing this morning with the judge, those comments on Fox News.

They also said that it appeared that while Michael Cohen was claiming Sean Hannity was a client, Sean Hannity has said he is not a client, so there's a lot of things here that probably factored into the prosecutors' decision. And along, John, you know, having been in that courtroom, there's two other dates of this have come up. Prosecutors have said, and Michael Cohen's legal work was minimal, if any at all, in that his only client really was the President.

And so their feeling has been all along that there won't be a lot of privileged information in this, and they're hoping by having a special counsel, a special master appointed to go over these documents, it will move this case much faster, and this way they can proceed with any potential charges that they may bring.

KING: It's a fascinating case. A respected former federal judge now the special master. Shimon, appreciate the insight and the context there.

Quick break. When we come back, we're watching, you see them in the right hand of your screen there, Mike Pompeo's confirmation vote to be the next Secretary of State. That is underway.

Plus the Attorney General on this busy day also on Capitol Hill, defending his justice department, essentially saying the President of the United States, his boss, is wrong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:53] KING: Welcome back. The Attorney General Jeff Sessions defending his department of justice today, that after his boss, the President of the United States, hit the DOJ hard this morning on national TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Let me say with all the strength I can must that no nation has a finer group of law officers than those who comprise the FBI, the DEA, the ATF and United States Marshal Service. We face criticism, and it's a free country. We will not be defensive when questions arise, even if misplaced. We will take necessary action to establish that the concerns are either not true or take strong action against any wrongdoing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, take those words from the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, the Attorney General, the integrity of the agencies. Here's the President saying no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They have this witch-hunt going on with people in the Justice Department that shouldn't be there. They have a witch-hunt against the President of the United States going on. I'm very disappointed in my Justice Department. But because of the fact that it's going on, and I think you'll understand this, I have decided that I won't be involved. I may change my mind at some point, because what's going on is a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: An absolute disgrace, the President of the United States. His Attorney General who works for him, no nation has a finer group of law enforcement officers than those who comprise the FBI. There are questions in the democracy, quote, even if misplaced.

It's pretty remarkable message from the President, number one, and then from the Attorney General calmly but right back at the President saying, no sir, you're wrong.

PACE: And that's why Jeff Sessions has come under such fire from Donald Trump personally because he is defending the agency that he oversees. You find yourself sometimes getting a little immune to what the President says about the Justice Department because he does say it so frequently, but it is extraordinary to have a president who is consistently undermining the work that is being done there. Yes, he is personally involved in one investigation that is underway, but it is a dangerous precedent for the President to be so forceful in criticizing the Justice Department. It's almost unprecedented.

KING: He thinks they're supposed to drop any cases against him, lock up Hillary Clinton, lock up Andrew McCabe and Jim Comey and move on. That's what the President thinks. But the Justice Department is kind of supposed to be there for a reason, to be independent. If there are issues, great, call them out.

What he says is remarkable, but equally remarkable to me, Jeff Sessions has, in recent months, just learned again calmly but firmly to push back and say you're wrong.

SHEAR: I mean, it is true that what the White House will do is to try to draw the distinction between the political leadership that the Justice Department and the FBI and the sort of, you know, tens of thousands of employees who they like to say are fine people and fine investigators and the like. The problem for the President is that's not how this town works. You can't, you know, try to draw these artificial distinctions and the people who are in the FBI bureaucracy and the Justice Department, actually they're hearing all that rhetoric.

And, you know, I think for a guy like Sessions, right, he understands what that does to morale and the pushback on the President is largely because he feels for the people that work for him.

KAPUR: Yes, I think voters don't perceive that distinction. He's criticizing the leadership. I think what voters hear is that this is messed up. The DOJ is no stranger to criticism from either the right or the left. It usually doesn't come from the President of the United States. Shortly after the President said that, I want to know if the Senate Judiciary Committee approved legislation on a 14 to seven bipartisan vote to protect the Special Counsel's investigation, to protect them from being fired without cause.

Now it's probably not going any further. Mitch McConnell said he's not going to put it on the floor. The Republican leader has allies, John Cornyn and Orrin Hatch, both very seniors Senate Republican Finance (ph). Instead the Senate passed a nonbinding resolution urging the President not to fire him, which is a little bit like a parent telling a rebellious teenager, don't stay out past 2:00 a.m. I'll be sad but I won't punish you.

HAM: Yes, I mean, I think this is one way to have an independent DOJ, right, is to have the President attacking it all the time.

[12:55:03] And it sort of reveals the weird political jujitsu of Donald Trump where he has about liberal sort of rooting for Sessions. And I actually do not share Sessions' unblinking faith in the like unerring judgment f very powerful law enforcement agencies and think they should be criticized sometimes, just not in the way the President does. But it's --

KING: I think Sessions' point would be the I.G. did an investigation with McCabe (ph). It's now been referred to criminal prosecution. We're doing it the way it's supposed to be done based on the facts and based on the law, not based on what the President tells us to do it.

HAM: Right. I just think Sessions is a man who does have a faith in the sort of unerring judgment of these large agencies, and many to the left would be much more critical if it weren't for the fact that Trump is filing on.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: -- the President just defending Ronny Jackson again in the Rose Garden saying he's a fine man, criticizing the process. Very busy day here in Washington.

Stay right with us. We'll see you back here this tomorrow for INSIDE POLITICS. Wolf starts right after a very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us. We've got some breaking news.