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Paul Manafort Is Going To Jail, President Trump Free Styling, Confident, Contentious Off And Divorced From The Facts And The Truth As He Held Court With Reporters. Aired: 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 15, 2018 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Welcome to "Inside Politics." I'm John King. A major breaking news day beginning with this. Paul Manafort is going to jail. Just moments ago, a Federal judge revoking the bail of Paul Manafort. Remember, he's the former Trump campaign chairman. That move comes after the special counsel filed new charges against Manafort detailing them in court saying that while free awaiting trial, he has been deliberately witness tampering.

CNN's Evan Perez outside of the courthouse with this dramatic move just played out. Evan, take us inside the courtroom. Why did the judge agree with the prosecutors

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, the judge said she struggled with this decision, but she said really what Paul Manafort was doing represented harm to the integrity of the system of justice, the system of justice where he is about to face trial in September here in Washington, and so she decided that there was nothing she could do, but revoke his bail.

He's been out on bond for a $10 million bond and he's been wearing ankle bracelets on each leg for charges here in Washington as well as charges that he's facing over in Alexandria, Virginia. He's facing trial over there in July.

So for now, Paul Manafort is going to be in jail. He was led out of the courtroom by the US marshals. They came back into the courtroom and gave his wife his wallet, his personal possessions, and now he's going to be sitting in jail, at least until he goes on trial here in Washington.

The government made the case, John, that -- they said, "Manafort is a danger to the community." They said that he was carrying out a sustained campaign over five weeks to try to coach witnesses, to try to mold witnesses, telling them certain things that he was charged with were essentially not true.

The defense attorneys argued strongly. They said that revoking bail was a very harsh penalty. They said that Manafort was really reaching out to people that he had no idea were going to be witnesses. They argued that the solution was for the judge and for the government to say exactly who are witnesses and who Manafort was not supposed to be in touch with.

It turns out that one of the witnesses that Paul Manafort was talking to in the last few months, he came forward to the government, to the FBI, and said that what he felt was being done was to encourage perjury and to encourage lying to the government, and that's why the judge took the action that she did today, John.

KING: A remarkable step. Evan Perez outside of the courtroom. Let's get more now from our crime and justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, this is a hard ball tactic by the special counsel, a dramatic move to put Paul Manafort in jail while awaiting trial. What else do we know?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, it is a dramatic move, certainly. And you know, we've been talking about this now for months, whether or not the continued pressure on Paul Manafort by these new charges, by other charges, new indictments. How many times have we stood here and talked about new indictments and new charges?

In the end, everything that we've been told is that there was a lot of pressure on Paul Manafort to cooperate with investigators. Certainly, sources we've talked to all seemed to indicate that there is something that the government needs from Paul Manafort and wants him to cooperate and it will be interesting to see, you know, if this is finally the breaking point for Paul Manafort because really, this trial that's supposed to begin in September could take a really long time, John.

We're talking months, perhaps. This is not an easy case. It's pretty complicated. It's a white collar crime. There is all sorts of financial investigations that went on here, all sorts of different witnesses that will need to come before the court. It's a really strong case for the government, but it will take some time.

So it could be months before Paul Manafort even has any opportunity to be freed, it would be ultimately if he's found not guilty in his trials, that he would be freed, but this will be key here now, does this now break Paul Manafort?

KING: That's an excellent question, Shimon, if you get any reporting, come back with us throughout the hour. With me in the studio here to share their reporting and their insights, Karoun Deminjian with the "Washington Post," CNN's Jeff Zeleny, CNN's Paul Mattingly and Shan Wu, our CNN legal analyst and a former Federal prosecutor. Shan, let me begin with you, how extraordinary is this for the government to say we need to put this person back in jail, put this person in jail awaiting trial, because according to the government, they say, it was a five-week long detailed methodical effort using encrypted apps, text messages and other efforts to essentially tamper with witnesses?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's very unusual, particularly in a white collar case of this nature. I think the judge struggled a great deal with that decision. I've been in front of that judge, of course, when I represented Rick Gates, and I think it was a hard decision for her, but it was a big problem for Manafort that he was actually indicted on the charge. It would be one thing if they are just making the arguments, but the indictment I think really tipped the scales.

KING: And so, let's look at the charges. There are 24 total counts --

[12:05:16]

KING: -- now, against Paul Manafort -- conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, failure to file the right documents by foreign representation, obstruction of justice, conspiracy, bank fraud. You see all the charges there. To be clear, not one of those charges has anything to do with the 2016 Trump campaign.

But he was the chairman of the Trump campaign. In the latest indictment, they bring in a Manafort business associate who was known to have ties, prosecutors say to Russian intelligence, Bob Mueller doesn't speak publicly, to stay in the legal environment for a minute, what is Bob Mueller saying, A, by bringing in the new charges and then by being aggressive and saying Paul Manafort is going to jail. What is he saying about the broader case?

WU: What he is saying about the broader case is that we are leaving no stone unturned. That he's taking a very hard line approach. This has been a very aggressive prosecution and he is continuing to tow that line.

KING: He is continuing to tow that line, and then let's listen. This is the President of the United States this morning, speaking in a different context. But remember, the President spoke today. We have to consider the moment. We're going to go through this throughout the hour. This is on the question of Bob Mueller the day after the Department of Justice Inspector General released a report about the Clinton e-mail investigation.

Yes, it was harshly critically of FBI conduct. It has nothing to do with the substance of the Russian meddling investigation. Some of the players involved have been involved in both, their conduct has been questioned. Nothing to do with the substance, though, in the IG report, and yet the President of the United States says this about the special counsel.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you thinking about firing Bob Mueller?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, but I think that whole investigation now is -- look, the problem with the Mueller investigation is everybody has got massive conflicts. You have Weissman who was at Hillary Clinton's funeral -- meaning her party that turned into a funeral. And they were screaming and crying -- they were going crazy. How can you have people like this? So, you have -- let alone the 13 angry Democrats, you have a tremendous animosity. I think that the Mueller investigation has been totally discredited?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: To the President's point there, I think the Mueller investigation has been totally discredited. The President has shaped public opinion, especially among Republicans, about Bob Mueller, but every time Bob Mueller's investigation has faced the test in court where people have questioned the integrity of his prosecutors, questioned whether he is outside of his mandate including today, when Paul Manafort goes to jail. In court, Bob Mueller is winning.

KAROUN DEMINJIAN, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST; Bob Mueller has not any formal capacity, earned any of the bad light -- bad press that has actually fallen on a lot of different people that are either involved in the FBI or other areas of the probe that he's looking at.

What a lot of people in the GOP have been trying to do since yesterday is kind of draw this line. The IG report condemned a lot of individuals. It didn't condemn anything about the investigation as being politically biased. But a lot of Republicans are trying to say, well, if you have bad seeds, the whole garden is ruined, basically.

And that's what is the President is picking up on. Now Democrats are pushing back saying look, Mueller, the second that he knew about people like Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, got rid of them. They didn't stay on his team. He's managed to keep himself made aware of these and done the right thing when he has been made aware of these, people that were are not acting the way they should have been acting professionally, so you shouldn't mock him.

But there is this inter -- within the GOP there is a struggle about, do you track this stuff all the way up to try and take shots at Mueller, which some people definitely are, or do you try to separate out Mueller's integrity from the integrity of the many dozens of other people that have been involved in touching this probe, and that's the conflict right now. And it's clear which side of that line the President is on.

KING: And Jeff, back to the point, to the moment that sometimes gets lost, the President spent hours yesterday meeting with his legal team. They have to make a decision, and I am told Mueller wants an answer relatively soon about, are you going to come in for an interview voluntarily? Do I have to then consider a subpoena if you won't? And all the other dominoes of how the investigation.

So as the President launches these attacks, number one, he had the IG report, number two, he spent time with his attorneys, and now, the President has to consider this -- the hardball tactics of the special counsel who just sent his former campaign chairman back to jail.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I'd like to see the President walk on the north law this afternoon and talk about Paul Manafort again. He has disavowed him so many times did so again this morning, not involved in my campaign, barely involved in my campaign.

The reality is, we should remember that without Paul Manafort, he likely would not have become the nominee, or it would have been much more difficult at the Republican convention as we all remember from the time, because he was in charge of the delegates. But the President clearly, I thought this morning was perhaps trying

to hijack the news cycle. He knew that Paul Manafort was going to be in the courtroom. There are many other things going on here. So, I think that going forward, the President does have a decision to make, and we still don't know what he's going to do.

He is trying to discredit this entire matter, but he still wants to sit down and talk. He's talked more in the last week at that long news conference in Singapore. This morning, it seems like he has a lot he wants to say. We'll see if he says anything to Bob Mueller.

KING: And to that point, Shimon Prokupecz is still with us. Shimon, again, if you're a Trump supporter, you're going to say none of these charges have anything to do with 2016, none of these charges have anything to do with Russian collusion --

[12:10:16]

KING: -- with obstruction of justice. Other people say if you understand Bob Mueller and how he builds a case, that this is a methodical building and that the arc is turning back towards that. What do our sources tell us?

PROKUPECZ: Yes, I think that's exactly right, John. We don't know what exactly the special counsel in Robert Mueller are up to. We don't have a complete picture, but we have indications that there is something, as I said earlier, that Paul Manafort, there is some piece of information, certainly by people we've talked to, that indicates to them, to us, that they want his cooperation.

You're right, I mean, people close to the President, the President himself, have argued. They've gone 12 years back and to bring these charges and things he didn't do while he was part of the campaign, this has nothing to do with the campaign, that's absolutely right. However, we know that the Department of Justice Rod Rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney General who is overseeing the Russia investigation told the special counsel, gave them permission to go ahead and investigate these alleged crimes.

So something is going on here. We just don't know fully what's going on, what the full picture is, but, you know, the one good point that has been made is that this is sort of building up to something. What that is, you know, is yet to be determined.

KING: And we should always note, as I do it's like a broken record, the President knows more than we do. So when you try to put this into context, yes, these charges are about things that happened well before the campaign, but when the President hired Paul Manafort just through an internet search, it was no secret that he did business for pro- Kremlin politicians in Ukraine.

It was no secret that he had contacts inside Russia. During the campaign, he was at that infamous meeting arranged by Donald Trump Jr. with the Russians who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The President says there is no collusion, there were certainly communication between people in the campaign, including Paul Manafort and Russians throughout the election year. Dozens of such contacts. And yet, to your point, Jeff, this is the President of the United States this morning saying, Paul who?

(START VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Manafort has nothing to do with our campaign, but I feel -- I will tell you, I feel a little badly about it. They went back 12 years to get things that he did 12 years ago? Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: A very short period of time. Perhaps you could argue that, but a very critical period of time, at a time when people thought there would be a contested convention. At a time right after that coming out trying to build momentum after that, brought Mr. Gates into the campaign, your former client. He was a much bigger player than the President wants you to believe.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, as somebody who was covering the campaign, I feel a little bit like I am taking crazy pills given how much i had to interact with Paul Manafort for the 49 to 50-day period, how often he was on television? How often he was representing the President, but I think more importantly, behind the scenes, he was crucial. He was crucial in steadying the ship, if you remember what the campaign was going through when Paul Manafort was brought on, perhaps most importantly, Jeff alluded to this, you did as well, at the convention, people I think somehow forget going into the convention there were very real questions about whether the President would get the delegates, how the operation would work?

Paul Manafort helped orchestrate what turned out to be a very, very impressive, methodical and effective operation to ensure that any threat the President had on the delicate side of things just fell by the wayside. And again, we talked to him constantly. He was the face of the campaign for a legitimate period of time, however long it may have been.

So, this idea he wasn't involved in any way, shape or form or was coffee boyish, to talk about another individual who has been wrapped up in this, it's just wrong, and they know that.

KING: It's beyond wrong. It's ludicrous and in some cases laughable. We will continue to cover this one again, Paul Manafort on his way to jail now because he is accused of witness tampering in his case out of the special counsel investigation.

When we come back, more on the President's morning at the White House, call it free styling. Parts of it all, fact free, we will be right back.

[12:15:00]

KING: Welcome back. It was a beyond remarkable morning at the White House. President Trump free styling, confident, contentious off and divorced from the facts and the truth as he held court with reporters. The topics? Ranging from the Russian meddling investigation to China trade and his administration's decision to separate children from their illegal immigrant parents at the US- Mexico border.

The President's number one talking point, on the morning where he talked a lot was this.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I did nothing wrong. There was no collusion, there was no obstruction. The IG report yesterday went a long way to show that. If you read the IG report, I've been totally exonerated. Take a look at the investigation. Take a look at how it started. Take a look at the horrible statements that Peter Stzrok, the chief investigator said, and take a look at what he did with Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I've been totally exonerated. That's not only not true, it's laughable. The report in question again is the Justice Department Inspector General review of the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation. It does, as we talked a bit earlier, had some harsh findings about the FBI and some people within the FBI, but it addresses none of the substantive issues of the Russian meddling probe. Our Abby Phillip at the White House was part of that scrum on the north lawn of the White House the morning. Abby, a remarkable moment. Take us inside.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Really an amazing moment, John. And one that most of the reporters here, if not all of them, had literally never seen before, a President walking out of the residence, really coming up from the back way of the White House to come up the driveway to come over here a few feet from where I am standing right at this moment to talk to Fox News, in an extended televised interview on the fly.

A lot of White House aides here this morning were telling us, "Don't hold your breath, he's really not going to come out." Minutes after they told us that, the President walked out of the White House and he did it in a very relaxed fashion, for the most part. He seemed very eager to take questions. Aides were waiting for him to wrap up after the Fox interview, but he stayed and he talked for another half an hour about a series of issues.

[12:20:16]

PHILLIP: And one of the biggest topics of contention during this time was the issue of North Korea and why the President uses the language that he does about Kim Jong-un now, specifically failing to criticize him for his human rights violations.

At some point I and other reporters were questioning him repeatedly about this. He says he doesn't know anything about that, he can't speak to the issue of human rights violations. And at one point, he grew so frustrated by a persistent reporter asking him about that issue that he called her obnoxious, told her to stop talking. This was really chaotic for a few moments there, but an extraordinary

moment where the President really had a lot to get off his chest, and he certainly did, John.

KING: Abby Phillip at the White House, I appreciate your insights on that one. It was a remarkable scrum, I covered the building for ten years, never saw a President do that one. Tanini Party of BuzzFeed News joins the conversation here. Let's play a little bit more of the chaos. I mean, when you saw the pictures of the President walking out there. He was scheduled to do an interview they say was impromptu, uh-huh. He was scheduled to do an interview on "Fox and Friends" this morning and then, on the way out, you saw the scrum and reporters trying to get him questions, and then listen right here as he starts to get mic'd up with Steve Doocy.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Things are going fast here in Washington, just saying.

TRUMP: We're having a lot of fun, right? Supposing Hillary had gotten elected instead of Trump, would you think it would be so exciting?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He's having fun there. The President certainly is doing his fun, but I want to get back to the thing we started talking a bit earlier, sticking to the moment. He met with his attorneys yesterday, started a trade war with China today. There is all of this more -- what we know and what we are told might happen about more staff turnover and turmoil inside of the White House. Is this the President being his event's man, communications director, spokesman, chief of staff all at once?

TANINI PARTI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, BUZZFEED NEWS: That's exactly right. I mean, the President really hasn't had any major public events since getting back from Singapore, so this I think is what he saw as his moment to come out and air all of his frustrations, really try to manage what people have seen as a very chaotic time period with the Russia investigation and with North Korea.

There's so much going on that he wanted to get out there and get his message out directly.

KING: And amen. It's great to be able to talk to the President, to hear from the President, to ask questions of the President. It would be nice, though, if when the President answered, he stuck to the facts or at least reasonable political interpretations of the facts.

Here he is talking about -- this is in the Fox interview -- talking about what the IG report yesterday, his view of the IG report and it does cast, without a doubt, a lot of harsh judgments about James Comey, the former FBI Director, a lot of harsh judgments. It does not do this.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Should James Comey be locked up?

TRUMP: Look, I would never want to get involved in that. Certainly, they just seem like very criminal acts to me. What he did was criminal. Should he be locked up? Let somebody make a determination. I think Comey was the ringleader of this whole den of thieves. It was a den of thieves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The President of the United States saying the FBI is a den of thieves. Perhaps the most respected law enforcement agency in the world is a den of thieves. Comey is guilty of criminal acts, he says repeatedly.

If you read the IG report done by a very respected Inspector General, it says Comey made some monumental galactical bad judgments. It also says that they found no evidence of any political bias in making those judgments, that he just made bad calls. It's not what the President said.

DEMINJIAN: I think the President's comments are more than anything, a window, yet another one into his mindset and about the way he views these things. Comey was knocked in that IG report for being insubordinate, for going by the beat of his own drum, for basically, as you said, exhibiting extraordinarily bad judgment, and the others in the FBI knocked for bias -- against -- or displaying bias against President Trump.

So those are like the two most evil things that you can do in the President's role. He is used to people giving him loyalty up the chain, not so much down as we have seen, and he doesn't like it when people are not in his corner.

So, in his world, yes, that's emotionally criminal, perhaps, even though clearly he's prone to hyperbole. This may also be an example of one of the reasons why his lawyers are worried about him talking to Bob Mueller. He cannot stick to the facts of what is blatantly clear in black and white to the rest of the world now because they've published that report, and less than 24 hours later, he goes and spins like this. What about things that he -- that if people who can't (inaudible) quite that easily that he might do -- Mueller is going to have a lot less mercy I think than the viewing audience of "Fox and Friends."

KING: And something else again, the President could have said, look how harsh that report was on James Comey. If I was Bob Mueller, I wouldn't trust him. I wouldn't trust his judgment, I wouldn't trust the record. That's there. You could say that. And it would be fair than say, you said, criminal acts, den of thieves. Another thing where the President again wanders far from the truth here, this is completely unrelated, that the administration right now is facing some heat even from fellow conservatives, saying, why are we separating children from their parents when those parents, understand here, breaking the law when they cross the border? The administration has every right to stop them under the law, the

question is why do you separate the children from their parents while they're being held?

Here is the President of the United States, his Attorney --

[12:25:14]

KING: General made his decision. His Justice Department is enforcing this policy. Here's how the President describes it.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's following laws, very simply, that were given to us and forced upon us by the Democrats.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no law that says you can separate them at the border.

TRUMP: The Democrats gave us the laws. Now, I want the laws to be beautiful, humane but strong. I don't want bad people coming in, I don't want drugs coming in, and we can solve that problem in one meeting. Tell the Democrats, your friends, to call me.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It's not true. It's factually inaccurate. It's a lie, it's whatever you want to call it and it's been repeated at the White House podium as well. I don't understand it why they don't communicate with the Attorney General who made very clear this was a policy that they were pursuing on their own grounds to disincentivize individuals from coming.

His point was if you don't want to be separated from your child, don't cross the border. If you talk to Republicans who kind of have the grasp of what the administration is trying to do here, it's a dual- pronged approach.

The first one, that the Attorney General laid out and also to try and force Democrats to the table on a negotiation for a broader immigration package. What it's not is something that they were forced to do.

And to be blunt, as somebody who has been on the Hill and covered the immigration process over the course of the last 14 to 16 months, all this does is move them significantly further away to any possibility of trying to find a resolution on DACA.

KING: Like I said, we would love to hear from the President. It would be nice if most of what he said was fact based. Most, reasonable aspiration. Up next for us here, the White House hits China with massive new trade tariffs as China promises to retaliate ASAP.

[12:30:00]