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Trump Calls for Russia Probe End; Manafort Trial Resumes for Day Two; Questions over Gates Testifying. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 01, 2018 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:24] DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Dana Bash. John King is off today.

President Trump launches his most aggressive attack against the Russia probe, telling his attorney general to end the investigation, quote, right now, and has us asking, what is going on that has the president so agitated.

One thing missing from his morning tweet storm, any outrage or really any mention at all about FaceBook taking down a network of pages and accounts believed to be linked to Russia.

And this is all coming from a commander in chief in full entertainer mode on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a lot easier to act presidential than to do what I do. Anybody can act presidential.

You are tremendous people. And I will leave now because I am boring you to death.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We begin with yet another escalation from the president to end the special counsel's Russia investigation. For what appears to be the first time President Trump tweeted a direct demand to his attorney general saying, quote, Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this rigged witch hunt right now before it continues to stain our country any further. We should note, of course, that Sessions has recused himself from all things Russia. And the tweet, which came mid-Twitter rant about the investigation more broadly, sure seems to be a tell that despite his aides saying they're not worried about the trial underway of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, the president is, in fact, very worried about something.

Now, Manafort is on trial for bank fraud and tax evasion. And on Tuesday, we got our first glimpse at Manafort's defense strategy. Namely, to blame his former deputy, another former Trump aide, Rick Gates, as well as Ukrainian oligarchs for whom he worked. Manafort's attorney says Gates had his hand in the cookie jar, attacking him as the star witness and an embezzler.

Now, the prosecution, meanwhile, is working to highlight Manafort's extravagant lifestyle, saying he had a cash spigot while working for his Ukrainian golden goose. They say he's a liar and that he, quote, orchestrated these crimes. Two officials tell CNN that President Trump is keeping a close eye on the proceedings and asking for frequent trial updates from his team.

I want to get straight to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, joining me now.

And, Shimon, let's begin with these tweets from the president and the significance of them.

What are you hearing from your sources at the Justice Department? Are they taking this as a demand or are they just saying, this is the president blowing off steam?

SIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, yes, Dana, I mean certainly significant. I think you said it right, this is an aggressive move, aggressive words from the president here. So far the Department of Justice has not responded in any way to these tweets, to essentially the president demanding that this investigation -- that Sessions end this investigation.

You know, it's a longstanding practice, as we know, that the president does not interfere in investigations by the Department of Justice, does not comment on them, does not offer suggestions. And clearly by this morning's tweets, that is not anything that the president follows and certainly has not followed. And when you think about why there is this obstruction of justice investigation by the special counsel, what started it off, what set it off was words, was what he did to the FBI director, the former FBI director, James Comey.

You know, and I sort of wanted to point out sort of what he told the then-FBI Director Comey about the Flynn investigation and then what he's tweeting today. If you look at what he tweets today, he's telling the attorney general essentially, you should end this investigation. And then when he met with Comey, as you will recall, he told Comey, I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go and letting Flynn go. Certainly, you know, those words perhaps one could interpret as a little softer than the words today from the president. But if you see and you think about that that's what set off -- was part of what set off the obstruction investigation and then certainly the words by the president today, certainly significant and it goes into the obstruction investigation. It's something that I think the president and his lawyers know the special counsel will be looking at.

BASH: So interesting. I'm really glad that you pointed out the similarity and language there, particularly since there are reports that the special counsel is actually looking at whether tweets can be used as obstruction of justice.

PROKUPECZ: That's right.

[12:05:03] BASH: Let's look at the trial. What's happening in the Manafort trial as we speak, Shimon?

PROKUPECZ: Well, today's really been -- so there have been two witnesses so far that have testified. One of them, I think the important witness here that's just on the stand now, the FBI agent who entered Manafort's home. They did a search warrant at his home in Alexandria, Virginia. And they're talking about some of the documents that they found.

And this really goes to the meat of the prosecution's case. These are documents about his loans, bank records, things that they found with his name on it, wire transfers. Sort of goes really to the meat, sort of to the heart of the case and the evidence that the FBI has gathered and now the prosecution is using in the case.

Significant there also today from the FBI agent is that he's describing how they entered Manafort's home. They said they came to the home at around 6:00 a.m. They knocked on the door three times announcing that they were there. When no one answered the door, they entered. They had a key and they went in.

There was some questions about the FBI's tactics here back when this happened. People close to Manafort were saying that the FBI was very aggressive in how they went into the home. Clearly today, the FBI disputing that account saying they did everything right. They knocked on the door, no one answered, and then they went in.

BASH: So interesting.

Shimon, thank you, as always, for your excellent reporting. Appreciate it.

And here with me at the table to share their reporting and insights, CNN's Phil Mattingly, "Time's" Molly Ball, CNN legal analyst Shan Wu, who represented Rick Gates briefly after he was indicted, and CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Hi, everybody.

Oh, my goodness. So, let me just start with something that was tweeted by the president shortly before we came on the air. And it kind of brings all of these questions of the morning together. And I will read it. Looking back on history, who was treated worse? Alfonse Capone, legendary -- OK, we'll hold that for a second -- legendary mob boss, killer and public enemy number one, or Paul Manafort, political operative and Reagan/Dole darling, now serving solitary confinement, although convicted of nothing. Where is the Russian collusion?

Now putting aside that we've all taken tours of Alcatraz and it wasn't exactly nice digs, what do we make of this?

Kaitlan, I'm putting this to you first.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the last thing that Paul Manafort's legal team wanted on the second day of his trial was for the president to compare him to Al Capone.

BASH: Alfonse Capone.

COLLINS: Yes, Alfonse (INAUDIBLE).

But we're seeing that the White House, for the past few days, has been saying they don't know what the president's reaction to the Paul Manafort trial is. They haven't spoken with him about it. But we heard from the president for the first time this morning only on day two of this trial -- it is expected to go on for at least two or three weeks -- what exactly his feelings are as he's watching all of this play out on cable news.

And this is also coming as the president and the White House are trying to downplay Paul Manafort's role in the campaign. That has been their strategy for months now and we've really seen them ramp it up over the past few days, including from Kellyanne Conway and Rudy Giuliani. So inside and outside of the White House. And even from the president himself, saying that he was only there for a short period of time.

BASH: Yes.

COLLINS: But Paul Manafort was there for a very crucial period of time --

BASH: Yes, he was.

COLLINS: Including how he attended that Trump Tower meeting.

BASH: I mean they can say all they want that they don't really care and they're not paying attention, but every tweet that the president sent this morning completely undercuts that argument in a big way.

What do you think it means?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a little surprising he's so worried about it because actually --

BASH: Do you think it -- do you think there's something there? That he's worried for a reason that we just don't know about?

WU: That could be. I think it's just the pressure of the trial actually commencing getting to him because, frankly, I thought the first day went pretty well for the defense, actually. It was like a break-neck pace. It's incredible they got through the jury selection, openings and got to a witness. That's just amazing.

But Ellis interrupted the prosecution during their opening.

BASH: The judge.

WU: Yes, the judge, Judge Ellis did, and that's very disconcerting for the prosecution. And I'm sure Manafort's team liked what he said. He pointed out that there's nothing wrong or illegal about having a lot of money. And I think they probably put that in the win column for the day.

BASH: Yes. OK.

So you might be right. Were you going to say something about what you think this could be about?

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": I just thought -- well, I thought that the president's tweets about Manafort this morning were very striking because they were sort of a reversal, as Kaitlan was saying, from this distancing act. Rather than say whatever he did, he might have -- he might have been terrible, but it had nothing to do with me. He's expressing sympathy for Manafort. He's saying Manafort's being treated unfairly. He's saying that, you know, Manafort had these glorious credentials working for Reagan and Dole.

Now, one of the things that was discussed in the trial yesterday is that the activities of Manafort's, the money making, that allegedly illegitimate money making that they're talking about was 2010 to 2014. So that's well after he would have worked for Ronald Reagan or Bob Dole. To answer the president's question about why didn't anybody bring this up when he was working for Reagan or Dole.

BASH: Yes. and, I mean and that's another question the president was tweeting about this morning, why didn't anybody tell me? I mean that's the gist of one of his tweets this morning, why didn't anybody tell me about the bad stuff that Manafort allegedly did. Well, really? Just pick up the phone and call somebody or ask him or ask anybody. What happened to hiring only the best people?

[12:10:12] PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think the interesting element with Paul Manafort is, it wasn't a secret, kind of, these circles with which and within he operated in, in Washington, D.C.

BASH: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: If you look through disclosures to the extent that he made them, and sometimes that ended up being a problem legally it turns out, he wasn't representing necessarily Fortune 500 companies. He was dealing in the areas of lobbying or influence peddling that kind of operate in the darker areas of D.C. And some of his partners, and some of the people he worked with, if you talk to anybody who covered K Street or covered Paul Manafort coming up, or covered Roger Stone coming up, any of those guys, there's an understanding of kind of the place that they were operating here that could potentially lead him into trouble.

I will note, as a random aside since he brought it up, solitary confinement. He's meeting with Republican senators on criminal justice reform today. If he has a huge problem with solitary confinement, it can be addressed at 2:45. That's important. That would be a step forward.

BASH: For white collar criminals? I don't think that's exactly what -- what the topic is.

MATTINGLY: Not quite, but --

COLLINS: Things to keep in mind as they are downplaying the role that he had, is that the president stayed in touch with Paul Manafort for months after he left the campaign. He left in August and then they stayed in touch for months after that. The president has often done this with people who left the White House or left his campaign.

BASH: It's what he does.

COLLINS: But also with Rick Gates, Paul Manafort's deputy, who is testifying against him. He left as well shortly thereafter Paul Manafort. But he and the president stayed in touch and he served on one of his inauguration committees. So it's not like the president completely cut off access with him when all of these questions started coming up, which is why Paul Manafort left. They stayed in touch for months after.

BASH: Shan, I want you to react to this because the president's -- the whole gist of what he's saying this morning and in a very aggressive way and what he said in the past, well particularly when he's saying that Sessions, who technically has nothing to do with this because he recused himself, should end this because the collusion, the whole question of this is a witch hunt, let's go back to what the deputy attorney general, who actually appointed Mueller, actually said the investigation should be about. Certainly collusion was part of it. But the core -- the core of it was the following, to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

Why, Mr. President, would you not want the Mueller investigation to find out the answer to that, particularly as it is happening, according to his own government and according to FaceBook, as we speak?

WU: No, that's exactly right. And I think one other aspect of that tweet that he sent about being in the dark is he could be trying to now set up sort of his defense generally that the bad FBI, the bad Justice Department, didn't really tell me about what was going on, so don't try to blame me for anything. He's kind of like talking, as usual, out of both sides of his mouth here, I mean, saying he was kept in the dark. He's saying this is an unfair thing and yet he's being told that the same type of thing is reoccurring right now.

The one interesting thing about this in terms of the timeline is the Manafort and Gates indictments were first out of the box, we're now seeing a pattern with Mueller of handing off some of these investigations to the Southern District of New York. It's not inconceivable that had this come later down the pike, if it was compartmentalized to being just tax issues, that maybe it wouldn't have stayed with the special counsel. This first out of the box and during the trial now.

BASH: Well, I know there's a lot that you can't say because you did represent Rick Gates briefly. But if you, knowing what you know, if you're the White House and the president, do you have a reason to be concerned watching this trial?

WU: Looking at what's happened in the trial, not yet. But I think it may be just dawning upon the president that, oh, my gosh, they really are taking Manafort to trial. He knows what dangers Manafort may have. And once this trial commences, the pressure is much, much greater on Manafort. And there are deals cut during trials. People have plead guilty midtrial. That --

BASH: Deal cut and pardoned. Is this a signal to Manafort that a pardon could be coming? Just stick with me?

MATTINGLY: I defer to --

COLLINS: Well, he's never ruled this out. The president -- the president has never ruled it out.

BASH: No one wants to get into the head of the president on that one.

COLLINS: Well, it -- you shouldn't. (INAUDIBLE) the president is going to say. But he hasn't ruled it out yet. He's been asked time and time again. He's been quite snappish in his responses about potential pardons for them or even pointed out that they haven't been charged yet with anything. But he has not ruled out the idea of that. So I think it's still there.

But I do think over the next few days, as this trial is playing out, even though it has nothing to do with Russia, Russia is still looming large over this. And the more the president sees it, as we saw from his Twitter feed today, it reminds him of Jeff Sessions recusing himself, which is the number one thing that has infuriated him since last March when Jeff Sessions recused himself --

BASH: Sure has.

COLLINS: And then flew down to Palm Beach and the president ripped him a new one over it because he was so frustrated about it.

BASH: And we are all talking about and trying to dissect and get into the president's brain, but we should not forget about the fact that it is so unheard of and inappropriate for a president of the United States to be saying in any medium, Twitter or anywhere else, that an investigation that is going on and was ordered by his own deputy attorney general should end. Not OK.

[12:15:19] MATTINGLY: Yes. One real quick thing about that.

BASH: Please.

MATTINGLY: Can you imagine if what he tweeted was discovered by reporters in a memo that had been sent (INAUDIBLE)?

BASH: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: Like we're kind of numb to 280 characters and now he operates and certainly that's a way that got him elected and it's a central tenet of who he is. But can you imagine --

BASH: No.

MATTINGLY: If that would have been found in a memo that was uncovered somehow?

BASH: Very different. Good point, Phil, as always.

Up next, enemies posing as friends to disrupt the November election. FaceBook reveals a bunch of fake accounts that stirred up real political activism. And this is not about 2016, folks. This is happening right now.

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[12:20:01] BASH: Welcome back.

Fewer than 100 days until the midterm elections and Russia's social media disinformation campaign appears to be quite active. FaceBook says they've taken down a wide ranging network of suspected Russian linked accounts. More than 30 pages of profiles across FaceBook and Instagram with more than 290,000 followers. Those accounts organized at least 30 events since 2017 and spent nearly $11,000 on 150 paid advertisements.

Now, there's a Senate hearing going on this morning on this very topic, foreign influence in U.S. elections in social media. Intelligence Committee leaders in both parties are expressing deep concern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: This isn't about who won or who lost. This is about national security. This is about corporate responsibility. And this is about the deliberate and multifaceted manipulation of the American people by agents of a foreign hostile government.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: For just pennies on the dollar, they can wreak havoc in our society and in our elections. And I'm concerned that even after 18 months of study, we are still only scratching the surface when it comes to Russia's information warfare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Tarini Parti with "BuzzFeed" joins us now around the table.

I want to start by showing you all and our viewers some of what we're talking about from -- and that were -- that was on FaceBook. Some examples, at least what we've seen, these are actually targeting interestingly left wing progressive activists. No unite, right to march. This is one of the demonstrations that was pushed and organized by these bots. "Abolish ICE" an example, push to liberals. That's according to a source.

And I want you all to listen to what a -- an activist told CNN, told our Drew Griffin, about what it was like to be contacted by these -- what we suspect are Russian bots or Russian activists. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARIANA PINEDA, ACTIVIST: I was contacted through FaceBook by a woman named Mary Smith. She wanted me to look into permits for having a rally in Union Square. We contacted the police department and asked about permitting. And ultimately decided to do the rally without permits. And we talked about sound and the use of amplified sound. And I said that I needed something. And so they sent me a megaphone in the mail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We are going to talk more about this FaceBook situation in a minute.

But I want to go straight to Joe Johns at the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, with some breaking news on the Paul Manafort trial.

Joe Johns.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Dana.

Look, what we've just heard from the federal prosecutors, and it's not clear whether this is a strategy or whether it's a bluff or exactly what it is, but one of the prosecutors, speaking apparently in front of the jury now, has suggested that it's possible Rick Gates, who is a deputy of the man who is on trial, might not testify.

Now, that would create kind of an extraordinary situation because, as you know, Paul Manafort here on trial for financial crimes, they spent the morning entering into evidence and producing to the jury reams of documents, the receipts of all kinds of papers in which money passed between Manafort and various parties in an attempt to show that Manafort essentially cashed in on the millions and millions of dollars he received to buy houses, to repair homes and so on.

And at the center of the defense strategy is that his deputy, Rick Gates, effectively duped Manafort into doing what he did. So the prosecution raising the possibility that Rick Gates might not testify at this stage sounds fairly extraordinary, especially because during the opening statements we were certainly given the impression that Rick Gates was a key part of this case.

Gates, of course, has already agreed to cooperate with the prosecution in the case of Paul Manafort. And apparently willing to do so.

Also, I have to point out that the prosecutor who initially said it's possible Rick Gates might not testify, later said he didn't mean to suggest that Rick Gates would not. So you have a little bit of double speak there occurring in the court.

BASH: Yes.

JOHNS: A fascinating development and we don't know what it means.

BASH: OK. Joe Johns, thank you so much.

[12:25:00] Well, let's bring in Shimon Prokupecz, who can help us explain what it may or may not mean.

As Joe just talked about, Rick Gates, long time right-hand man to Paul Manafort, both in business and in the Trump campaign, I should say, was and has been somebody who the prosecution was relying on, frankly, to take down Manafort and to convict him. If he does not testify, what does that say to you about the prosecution's case?

PROKUPECZ: That means that they believe in their case and their case is likely much stronger than we think and that they don't need Rick Gates to make their case.

I think what happened in this case, and I think this is where the defense team kind of screwed up, quite honestly, in that when they went with their opening statement and tried to pin everything on Rick Gates, they were the ones that introduced Rick Gates into this trial, not the prosecutors. Prosecutors don't ever promise something to a jury and not deliver. It's just a mistake, and you would never do it.

Now, if the prosecution said we were going to call Rick Gates and this is what he's going to tell you, then that would be a problem for the prosecution because the defense can argue, while the prosecutors came in and they told you Rick Gates would testify, and he didn't, what are they hiding? In this case, that didn't happen. It was the defense team that introduced Rick Gates into this.

And also, Dana, I want to point out, though, while Rick Gates, you know, he may be on this witness list that the prosecution had filed with the court, the prosecutors are not bound by anything that they file in terms of a witness list. That is just done as a way to make sure no one on their jury knows who these witnesses are. So really, I think, it's a development in the sense that if we don't hear from Rick Gates in this, it doesn't really mean anything for the prosecution. It's really, what does this say about the defense and where does the defense go.

And, keep in mind, last point, is that the defense can always call him as a witness if they choose so.

BASH: That is such an important point, Shimon, because you would assume if you are representing Paul Manafort, you want Rick Gates on the stand because you want to chip away at his credibility and you want to knock down everything he has said about the prosecution. And clearly the prosecution, because we've seen a lot of it, they have so much in the way of paper and evidence that they are showing the jury. So, OK, thank you. You really did explain that, as always.

We have a lot of breaking news this hour. Up next, we're going to give you a bit more. Former President Barack Obama wading into the 2018 midterms. Stay with us.

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