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U.S Military Begins Moving Equipment Moving Out of Syria; Trump Administration's Overabundance of Job Openings; Supreme Court: Ginsburg Shows No Evidence of Remaining Disease; Pelosi and Trump Fight for Upper Hand Amid Shutdown. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 11, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:31:14] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: It's officially underway. A U.S. military spokesman confirming today that the drawdown is underway but for security reasons refusing to provide any details. CNN though has learned some ground equipment was removed from Syria in recent days. Unclear is whether the troop levels are also starting to head down.

Adding to the confusion, mixed messaging from the top of the Trump administration. The president surprised us just a few weeks ago by promising a quick troop withdrawal. But since has promised it will be done carefully. His top aides have tried to calm nervous allies by saying the withdrawal would be based on battlefield conditions, not political considerations

Right now, about 2,000 U.S. troops are on the ground mostly helping to train Kurdish rebels.

CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is on the ground in Kobani, Syria. Clarissa, you're in a town where the Kurds play a crucial role fighting ISIS back in 2015. They're still on the frontlines in many ways. What's the mood there? How do the Kurds especially view this move by the United States?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there are mixed messages going on here. There is a sense on the surface that they're trying to make the best of a bad situation, that officials here are continuing to negotiate with U.S. officials to try to get some guarantees about what happens after the U.S. leaves. They want to have guarantees of protection from Turkey just across the border. Of course, the Turkish view the Kurds here as an existential terrorist threat. They want to have assurances that the U.S. has their back as well if there is a resurgence of ISIS.

And more broadly, they want to have an assurance that this strategic alliance that they have nurtured, that they have died for, is truly meaningful to American officials and to the American people indeed. Privately when you have conversations with people here, John, you hear a very different story. They are far less diplomatic. They feel abandoned, they feel angry but mostly they feel fearful.

There is a very real sense here on the ground that if and when those U.S. troops complete that pullout that there could be a bloodbath here. And they want to see America promise and take the steps needed to prevent that from happening one way or the other, John. KING: Clarissa Ward, I appreciate you being there live on the ground at this very important time as we come back into the studio now.

The question is as you hear that. You hear that. Everybody publicly trying to say the right thing. Privately, voicing concerns. And this is not -- yes, this is like a death. This is not, you know, trivial business.

I want you to listen here. This is the National Security Adviser John Bolton with Hugh Hewitt today. And remember, president first said it'll be quick, then he said we'll do this right. His allies including his aides, including John Bolton have to go into allies and say -- it's a meeting with allies saying, calm down, calm down, we get it. It's not going to be precipitous, it's not going to be crazy.

He says, we're consistent.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think I spoke to the president four or five times by phone. I spoke to Secretary Pompeo about the same number of times. General Dunford was with us in Turkey, and as I mentioned a moment ago, the position we presented to the government of Turkey was one that we had cleared through all the normal diplomatic and bureaucratic processes precisely so that the U.S. spoke with one voice.

You know, the media loves to find splits in the administration. It's sort of a hobby of theirs.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: We do highlight statements that appeared to be contradictory when they happen. And they happened in the context with just the conversations in Turkey that Ambassador Bolton was talking about there. They've happened more broadly about the pace of the withdrawal. Are we making a mountain out of a mole hill here or he is just trying to fake us?

ELIANA JOHNSON, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, look, it is true that the media loves to highlight splits in the administration. I mean, it's also our job. But it's also true that there has been a split in the administration between the president who said we're getting out in 30 days, and then his aides who seem to have convinced him.

[12:35:03] I mean, it's unclear exactly what's happening internally, but seem to have convinced him that this is a terrible idea. Bolton, on his international trip said our pullout is conditional on the conditions in the region. And the president then said, master Bolton speaks for me. The president saying that in a tweet. Those are two completely different statements one to the next.

Now it appears that troops are not leaving Syria but equipment is leaving Syria? So I think what the president's aides have not accounted for is the utter confusion in the message that seems to be coming on a tremendously important issue.

KING: Right. And if you think there's no mixed message, let's just listen here quickly to the president himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our boys, our young women, our men, they're all coming back, and they're coming back now. We won.

I never said we're doing it that quickly, but we're decimating ISIS --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Doesn't now mean quickly?

OLIVIER KNOX, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, SIRIUSXM: They're not perfect in a lot of this but -- yes -- I mean, I would say first on Bolton like, right, we look at this in every administration. Why? Because we're trying to figure out who's going to carry the day and what that means for Americans and the world. Who's actually shaping policy?

Pompeo and --

KING: In this case -- forgive me for interrupting. In this case, policy that affects a very dangerous region in the world and potentially the lives of American men and women who have the courage to serve in uniform.

KNOX: Absolutely correct. And this administration flipped the normal process. The normal process here is, you approach the stakeholders, all the people who might care about what happens to the 2,000 American service personnel on the ground in Syria, the Kurds, the Turks, the Iraqis, the whole group of people. Then you talk inside the administration and you try to figure out, OK, how do we this, can we do this? Do we move them to Iraq, do we take them home? And then eventually down the line you get a presidential announcement.

That's not what happened here. What happened here was in a phone call with the Turkish president, Donald Trump was convinced that it was right to withdraw. He announced a withdrawal and now everyone trying to pick up the pieces.

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Well, and the reason for that process, right, it's not just that, you know, where all these rule followers hung up on some handbook. It's because by doing that, you expose yourself to different arguments. Maybe you do become convince that it's not a good idea or that you should do it a different way. Maybe, you don't have your defense secretary quit, who was viewed as a vital source of stability in the administration because this decision was taken without his input.

You bring everybody in the room, and you can say to people privately, maybe you're not going to like this, but here's what we're about to do. You can build a coalition. It's possible to imagine the administration building a very effective coalition by reaching across the aisle to some Democrats who believe this is intervention wasn't a good idea. Instead we got a tweet.

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: And to Molly's point, I mean, Elizabeth Warren said she does support the goal of withdrawing troops in Syria, aligning her with the president on that point, but she again criticize the process in which it was done.

KING: Loop your defense secretary and a esteemed retired general into the process about U.S. troops serving in war zone overseas. Interesting novel. Novel theory there, I like that

Up next, the Trump administration has helped one and signs all over the place with some stunning new numbers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:44] KING: Topping our political radar today, some breaking news and some good breaking news about the health of the Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. You'll recall Judge Ginsburg had some nodules, cancerous nodules removed from her lungs. She's missed court arguments this week, the court says, she will also missed arguments next week. But the court spokeswoman saying just a sort time ago, post-surgery evaluation indicates no evidence of remaining disease and no further treatment is required.

That's from the Supreme Court Spokeswoman Kathy Arberg. So good news Ruth Bader Ginsburg there. Hope to get a timetable when she can return to work.

Moving on to this other big story, the excessive number of job vacancies in the Trump administration. We're just getting some new figures, this as President Trump begins his third year in the White House. In addition to a quarter of his cabinet now filled by acting secretaries, there are 271 unfilled high leadership jobs across federal agencies.

CNN's Abby Phillip live at the White House. Abby, take us inside. These are eye-popping numbers.

ABBY PHILIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They really are and they reflect as a certain amount of turnover that is very unusual for a presidency that is only -- that is more than two years in. Both with President Trump's predecessors never experienced this kind of turnover especially not at these high levels of his cabinet.

But if you take a look at some of these numbers, you're seeing a White House that has really struggled to get these positions filled, both a combination of moving a lot of these people through, the Senate that has been closely divided for much of the last two years but also trouble finding people to fill these jobs. Seventy vacancies at the State Department, 14 at the Pentagon, and 17 at the Justice Department.

But what's interesting is that President Trump in recent days has said that he thinks that this gives him flexibility. But what we have heard in our reporting from Republicans and from the president's allies is that that's basically a coping mechanism. He's put in place in a quarter of his cabinet-level positions acting officials. That is an effort on the president's part to really try to backfill some of these positions. But Republicans on the Hill are saying this cannot go on much longer. They want the president to name permanent people to these jobs and get them through the Senate.

The problem is when you're trying to fill a, you know, a handful or more Senate-confirmable, high-level cabinet positions, that is a tall order even for a Republican-controlled Senate.

[12:45:00] And I think that's one of the reasons why you've seen the president and the White House in this position.

When he sat at the cabinet meeting just a week ago, he was surrounded by a bunch of unfamiliar faces and names. A lot of the people that he started his administration with are now gone. And by comparison, John, President Obama lost only one cabinet level official at this point in his presidency. The same is true of George W. Bush. President Trump has lost 10 officials. Two years, ten officials are gone in his administration.

So, in addition to the government shutdown, there is a level of dysfunction happening at the executive branch that is really unmatched in recent history.

KING: Unmatched is a even a polite way to put it that. Abby Phillip, live at the White House, appreciate it there.

When we come back, more on the health update for Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And Democrats on Capitol Hill promising aggressive oversight, call their first witness.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:06] KING: Let's get some more now on the big story we talked about just moments ago. An update on the health of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. CNN's Ariane De Vogue joins us live outside the Supreme Court.

Ariane, what are we hearing?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, the court spokesman has given us an update on her health and said her recovery is, quote, on track, but she will still miss oral arguments next week. Recall she wasn't on the bench for arguments last week. But the spokesman said post-surgery evaluation indicates no evidence of remaining disease and no further treatment is required.

So that's very good news for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Remember, with less than a month ago that she had those two nodules removed that were cancerous from her lung. And that happened -- that was actually detected when she fell in her office in November and fractured ribs, so it was caught very early. But this also comes at a really important time for the court because even though that this term so far has been less than blockbuster, the justices are meeting behind closed doors. In fact they met today to discuss big Trump initiatives, big policies, those concerning DACA, transgender military. And they're going to decide whether to take up those cases.

They voted on that earlier today behind closed doors and she probably participated by proxy. Again, she won't be on the bench next week, but the spokesman says that her recovery is on track.

KING: On track is a good update. Ariane De Vogue outside the Supreme Court, appreciate that.

Up next for us her here, Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump, battle it out. Who will blink in the shutdown fight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:15] KING: Welcome back. A new Time Magazine cover story takes a look at the big debate in Washington. A deep look at the two key players in this government shutdown drama, the president and the House speaker. Here's a quote, at the center of this drama of the two towering figures whose clash will define the next biennium. Trump and Pelosi, the yang and yin of a divided America, two powerful leaders with their credibility on the line, both convinced they hold the winning hand. Neither can afford to lose.

The cover? Look at this, that's the online version. It's animated, they (INAUDIBLE) more juvenile. Look at their relationship. One where the two are lobbing spitballs at each other.

Molly Ball is the author of this cover story. She is back with us. This is the print version if you will, the older version. It's an interesting cover. Medieval weapons, you might say. Like the Medieval wall.

But it does get at -- it does get us, there are 800,000-plus federal workers who don't get their paycheck today. For them this is personal. The two people who would decide how this ends or have the most to say in how this ends are these two very stubborn, very dug in, very determined, very different leaders.

BALL: Very different. You know, I think it had -- it didn't really set in until -- well, and it didn't become literally true until this week that there is a balance of power now in Washington. And it is a whole new world and it's a new world for Donald Trump that I don't know if he has fully internalized that he doesn't have all the power anymore.

He has had a Republican Congress at his beck and call for the last two years doing everything or at least trying to do everything he wants to do. That is not the case anymore. There is a branch of Congress that has some power now. There is a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives and it happens to be led by probably the savviest legislator that America has seen for the past few decades.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she's a master of the inside game. We saw her put on this great display when she was tamping down the murmurs of dissent in her own caucus in order to retain the speakership. This is her skill set. This is what she's good at and she has (INAUDIBLE) this out.

The prob -- the question is, has she ever face an adversary quite as unpredictable and as immune to traditional incentives like as you could say is Donald Trump.

KING: That's what makes it so fascinating. And just moments ago, you can tell, one of her weapons if you will or strategies is trying to get under his skin a little bit. This is her, she was asked on her way back to her office some few moments ago by reporters about this prospect the president will declare a national emergency.

"This is isn't a wall between Mexico and the United States. This is wall between his failures of his administrations. Problems that may happened with Mueller, his cabinet in disarray and disgrace. That's the wall he's trying to build between public opinion on what's going on. And so this is a big diversion and he is a master at diversion."

That's poking the bear.

BALL: She is, she is. And, you know, the Democrats really believe that they have the upper hand in this fight. And it's very interesting, when you talk to both sides, the Republicans, particularly the White House, they also say that they have a winning hand but they don't actually have an exit strategy. They have this declaration of emergency but there's a lot of people around Trump who actually -- whether in the White House or especially among congressional Republicans, on a deep level they want him to lose this fight and that they don't necessarily want the wall built. They don't necessarily want a state of emergency.

They just need him to be able to say that he won so that he can get himself out and get them out of this pickle. He's painted himself in a corner. We know he has, you know, a big ego, considers himself an alpha male. The Republicans want him to get something that he can say he won. The question is, will he accept that, or does he need to actually see, you know, the bricks going up and the wall being built.

KING: And how much is she willing to give in the early days of her speakership given to the point she just crossed the opposition.

BALLL: Sure. I mean, this isn't necessarily the way she wanted to begin her reign either.

KING: Yes, right. It's fascinating. It's a great read. You can pick it up if you haven't seen it already.

Thanks for joining us in the INSIDE POLITICS. Brianna Keilar starts right now.

Have a great day.