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NYT: FBI Feared Trump Was Working On Behalf of Russia; No End in Sight As Shutdown Sets Record for Longest Ever; What are Democrats Looking for in a 2020 Nominee; Battle of Wills: Trump, Pelosi in Standoff over Shutdown. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired January 13, 2019 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[08:00:22] JOHN KING, CNN HOST (voice-over): The government shutdown breaks the record and brings a penniless payday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have medical bills. We have mortgages. We have things that we need to take care of.
KING: Plus, the two key players are trading insults, not proposals.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats, they don't give a damn about crime.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks. He thinks make they can just ask their father for more money.
KING: And testing the waters, the new candidate for 2020.
JULIAN CASTRO (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a candidate for president of the United States of America.
KING: As Democrats prepare for a crowded contest.
JONATHAN CAPEHART, MODERATOR: Pronounce your name.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Kamala. Just think of like the punctuation mark a comma and add an ala.
KING: INSIDE POLITICS, the biggest stories sourced by the best reporters, now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thank you for sharing your Sunday.
Day 23 now of the partial government shutdown. It's now the longest on record. Workers missed their paychecks. Some vital government services are stopped or stressed. New polling finds the American people squarely place the shutdown blame on President Trump and his demand for a border wall. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You will have crime in Iowa. You'll have crime in New Hampshire. You'll have crime in New York.
You're going to have human trafficking. You're going to have drugs pouring across the border. You're going to have MS-13 and the gangs coming in.
We have a country that is under siege. You could actually -- a lot of people don't like the word invasion. We have a country that's being invaded by criminals and by drugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Plus, new faces for the Democrats as what will be a crowded 2020 presidential field begins to take shape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: I have decided to run and will be making a formal announcement within the next week.
CASTRO: We're going to make sure that the promise of America is available to everyone in this 21st century.
HARRIS: Our country is worth fighting for. And these ideals are worth fighting for. And if something is worth fighting for, then it's a fight worth having.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Up first, though, dramatic new twists in the Russia investigation. The president lashing out at a new account detailing how the FBI, just after the president fired its director, began exploring this question. Might the president of the United States be working on Russia's behalf?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: Are you now or have you ever worked for Russia, Mr. President?
TRUMP: I think it's the most insulting thing I've ever been asked. I think it's the most insulting article I've ever had written. And if you read the article, you'd see that they found absolutely nothing.
I can tell you this. If you ask the folks in Russia, I've been tougher on Russia than anybody else, any other -- probably any other president, period. But certainly the last three or four presidents, modern day presidents, nobody has been as tough as I have from any standpoint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That last part doesn't hold up to a fact check. With us this Sunday to share their reporting and their insights, Julia
Pace of "The Associated Press", Michael Bender of "The Wall Street Journal", CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, and Julie Hirschfield Davis of "The New York Times".
What was a laughing matter on Fox last night, at least to Judge Jeanine, not a laughing matter for the FBI and is not a laughing matter now for the special counsel who inherited the FBI's Russia interference investigation. Robert Mueller, you will remember, was appointed by the Trump Justice Department after the president fired FBI Director James Comey.
"The New York Times" account of the fallout among senior law enforcement officials include this: The inquiry carried explosive implications, counterintelligence investigations, investigators had to consider whether the president's own actions constituted a possible threat to national security. Agents also sought to determine whether Mr. Trump was knowingly working for Russia or had unwittingly fallen under Moscow's influence.
You heard the president call that insulting. And his allies call it more proof of a rogue FBI and deep state determined, they say, to undermine the president. But investigators believe they had plenty of reasons to be worried. Another weekend headline reminds us the president's actions when it comes to Russia continue to raise questions.
A day after the new account in -- "The New York Times" account, "The Washington Post" detailing how the president went to great lengths to keep details of his conversations with Vladimir Putin secret from other top administration officials, even taking his interpreter's notes. On Fox last night, this from the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I had a conversation like every president does. I have a one on one meeting with Putin, like I do with every other leader. I have many one on one.
[08:05:01] Nobody ever says anything about it.
But with Putin they say, oh, what did they talk about? We talked about very positive things because, look, we are beating everybody. Our economy is the strongest in the world right now.
Anybody could have listened to that meeting. That meeting is open for grabs. You know, the whole Russia thing, it's a hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: No, anybody could not have listened to that meeting and the president did not deny taking his interpreter's notes so they can't be part of a record that his current team and future teams could go back and look at.
Let's rewind a bit, though. The president says it's the most insulting question he's ever been asked. The most insulting story he's ever read.
"The New York Times" account, much of the reporting confirmed since by CNN, takes you inside that moment. Comey gets fired. And we have some headlines. Let's put them up on the screen.
We go back and remember those days. You know, Trump told Russians the firing was a nut job. Remember, he fires Comey, and then he has top Russian officials into the Oval Office, where he's bragging about firing Comey. Trump revealed highly classified information to the foreign minister in that meeting.
If you go back to those days, to the conversations in the FBI we're already investigating Russian meddling. Should we be worried? Do we have to be worried about the president of the United States?
JULIE HIRSCHFIELD DAVIS, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, right. And what my colleague's reporting described, these are not idle questions the FBI agents sit around and sort of toss about. They had to have solid reasons for wondering these things. They don't just open a counterintelligence investigation because they're musing about some potential far-fetched idea.
Clearly, there was enough questionable activity on the part of the president, enough things had happened to make them very concerned that they needed to answer these questions, and they were legitimate questions in the eyes of these investigators. And you saw that the -- one of the major issues was is this something that the president is knowingly participating in, or is this just something that he's become caught up in unwittingly? Those were the questions they need the answers to.
And for those of us who are seeing those headlines and wondering, you know, sort of what was behind this, it's amazing to know this many months later that the FBI was actually taking those developments seriously enough to think that they needed to investigate them, and they still, as you pointed out, are the subject of the special counsel.
KING: Now it's Mueller's job.
Now, we now know that at least 16 Trump official contacts, Trump business orbit with Russia during the campaign. We didn't know all that back then. We didn't know, as Michael Cohen says, that the president was lying about the depth of his Russia business dealings. The FBI did know about this obviously because they do the counterintelligence work.
When you read it. Can you imagine being the junior FBI agent in the room? Is the president -- the question is the president. Huh?
JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ASSOCIATED PRESS: It's a really -- it's a really stunning development and again, we do know that Mueller has been looking at this overall question but the idea the FBI was so concerned and had felt like they had reason to be concerned that the president himself may have been an asset. Then you take the post reporting from yesterday where they say that
the president has been having these meetings with Putin. And he's been taking notes from interpreters, he's not letting other people in the room. There is no detailed account of his face-to-face interactions with Putin.
And the question around Russia and Trump always comes down to this, if there is no reason to be concerned, if there is nothing untoward, if he had no -- if Putin doesn't have anything on him, why are his interactions with Russia always so clouded? Why always these actions he takes that raise more questions?
If you know that people are interested in whether you have a relationship with Russia, why don't you take steps to make your interactions with Putin even more transparent? Why do you make sure there are more people in the room and those notes are disseminated more broadly? He never seems to be able to take that step and it leads you to wonder why.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: And it could be a question for him right now. I mean, he talked about the idea these meetings were open. Well, listen, if they are open, why can't you release some of those transcripts now and have a follow read out.
Even in that interview with Judge Jeanine, he sort of said, oh, this is an absurd question but he never said, no, this and this is ridiculous, this never happened. So, there's sort of blanket -- sort of, you now, dismissal of the entire question in line of inquiry. But there never any affirmative steps to point out what was wrong and show what he thinks actually happened in those meetings.
It also goes to the fact that Russians, obviously, know what happened in those meetings. Putin likely has the transcripts of those meetings. That means they have leverage and know things the American public doesn't know and Trump knows they know things.
KING: It's the continuing mystery about why he behaves the way he behaves knowing he's being watch and scrutinized about this.
It also comes, these headlines, new revelations, even more information about what Mueller might be doing as the president tries to get his new attorney general confirmed. Important this week, in private, Bill Barr, the president's choice, a former attorney general from the George H.W. Bush days, has promised Democrats and Republicans, I'm not going to mess with Bob Mueller. I let him finish his investigation.
Democrats want to get that on the record. They will grill Barr about this at this confirmation hearing, but this was very important. This is from Senator Lindsey Graham, the new chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Bill Barr saying, I don't agree with the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:10:01] SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I ask Mr. Barr directly, do you think Bob -- Mr. Mueller is on a witch hunt? He said no. Do you think he would be fair to the president and the country as a whole? He said yes.
He has a high opinion of Mr. Mueller, believes that Mr. Mueller is doing a professional job, will do a professional job and be fair to the president and the country as a whole and has no reason for Mr. Mueller to stop doing his job and is committed to allowing Mr. Mueller to finish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now again, Democrats want to push on this front. They also want to push Barr to promise to release all of the Mueller report. Not just pieces of the Mueller report.
But given the headlines this week, Mr. Barr's promises seem to have greased the way, if you will, for his confirmation.
MICHAEL BENDER, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes, those comments are important. Barr is not the first Trump nominee to show some distance. It's important in these confirmation hearings for his nominees to show some independence from the president. What's going to matter is once he gets into office.
But as -- in the sort of context of these Russia questions, and as the president answers questions and sort of seems to get himself deeper every time. Not denying that he's a Russian agent. If there is any hope right now, or I should say optimism in the White House, it's the new team coming in. He's going to have a new attorney general, finally.
And he has a new White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, who has put together -- restructured the office, added a dozen attorneys in there, and I know some of the folks who are on the outside part of this Russia investigation for the president, there is some optimism that Cipollone is going to be able to work with the outside counsel a little closer than McGahn was. So, there is a little sense of optimism in the White House right now as they move forward on -- with this investigation.
KING: We will see if that sustains itself as the Democrats call up Michael Cohen. The president last night saying he's not worried. The Democrats promising oversight. Again, we're waiting to hear from Mueller who is going to answer eventually some of these big questions. So, we'll have more on that a little bit later.
Up next for us here, new polling. The American people weigh in on who is to blame for the now 23-day partial government shutdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:15:57] KING: This is day 23 of the now record-setting partial U.S. government shutdown. And there's every reason to believe we'll be here marking the one month mark next Sunday.
The president demands billions for his border wall to reopen the government. The new Democratic majority in the House says no. The Republican leader of the Senate at the moment playing Pontius Pilate, washing his hands any of responsibility.
In a new "Washington Post"/ABC poll, look at this, 53 percent of Americans blame President Trump and Republicans in Congress for the shutdown, 29 percent blame Democrats, 13 percent blame both parties equally.
That survey also shows two-thirds of Americans oppose the president invoking a national Virginia emergency to build his wall. There was some movement on that front, as the president stepped back now from a threat to divert military or disaster funding for border wall construction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have the absolute right to call a national emergency. Other presidents have called many national emergencies for things of lesser importance, frankly, than this. I have the right to do it.
I'd rather see the Democrats come back from their vacation and act. I want to give them a chance to see if they can act responsibly. They should act responsibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: So no national emergency, for now, but the fundamentals of the impasse are unchanged. The president demands border wall funding in any deal to reopen the government. Democrats say, no, or at least no for now. Their demand, first reopen everything except the Department of Homeland Security and then negotiate over the border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Let's separate our disagreements over border security from the government shutdown. Reopen all the government agencies unrelated to border security and let's continue to work to resolve our differences. Do not hold all of these workers as hostages, as pawns, as leverage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Anybody see an off ramp here? And I guess the question, if you see this polling showing disproportionate blame going to the president and Republicans, would that be enough to cause Republican cracks on Capitol Hill or are we dug in here?
DAVIS: I mean, there's no off ramp that the president seems willing to take. That's the important question here.
I think, obviously, Republicans -- Senate Republicans were willing to take the off ramp in December of doing just exactly what Chuck Schumer was describing right there. Just to reopen or to continue funding for the government while they punted this dispute into later this year. February was the date on the table at the time.
But it seems like right now, they -- Republicans on Capitol Hill feel that they are sort of tied to President Trump's strategy or, in this case, lack of strategy and unable to kind of cut and break with him on this and do their own thing because they are worried that they will alienate his base, which, in the end, is their base they need to be reelected to win primaries and it's -- I guess it's possible that those poll numbers if they continue to go in that direction and it becomes more profound that the nation is blaming Republicans for this, perhaps that will push them off of that position. But it's hard to see now how that happens because we're already seeing that the Republicans are being blamed.
There was a poll late last week showing that congressional Republicans were getting less of the blame and they took a lot of comfort in that. But at the end of the day, I think they know if President Trump and Republicans writ large get blamed for this, they're going to be feeling the pain.
KING: As you go -- you know, we're in day 23. You go into another week of this, the FDA says there's some problems with food inspections. EPA, factory power plant inspections. FAA, getting on an airplane.
What about safety checks? Small Business Administration loans held up. Subsidies for farmers hit by the trade war held up. Applications, if you want to go, if you take the company public, it's more for the business community. But still, some vital wheels of the government are either stopped or slowed or stalled.
And then if you, around the country, this is not just a Washington story. Around the country, you hear more and more of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is on Social Security, so I'm it for income.
REPORTER: So missing one paycheck will be a burden on you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially with my recent surgery, we really had to come up with like backup plans immediately to figure out what we were going to do.
[08:20:07] My husband is in there making homemade bread because it's cheaper than buying a loaf at the store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have months or years. We have creditors. We have medical bills. We have mortgages. We have things we need to take care of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BENDER: That is not the consensus view in the White House, John. Inside the White House, they feel like there are a lot of these political pressure points that have been ameliorated. People are going to get food stamps for the next month. People are going to get their tax refunds. The 800,000 people who haven't been paid, how such that going to matter broadly in Michigan and Ohio and Wisconsin?
I'm not -- this is some of the things that the president is hearing inside the White House. And the anecdotes that matter right now are what -- are the president, inside the White House. One aide told me, it's not like the president is going to notice that the White House is half empty.
So, the White House budget office has made plans for this shutdown to go through the end of February, how to keep government running on a limited basis as efficiently as possible for another six weeks. I don't think that's the plan, but there are -- those are the contingencies.
PACE: To me, this drives -- we talk to Republicans. This drives Republicans crazy about this because, yes, 800,000 Americans, the country is far larger than that. It's 800,000 Americans that are going to be missing potentially repeated paychecks. That's a big deal. That is an impact.
KING: Big deal for them. Big deal for the pizza guy in their neighborhood. The other small businesses in their community.
PACE: It's not just their individual situation. One of my colleagues in Huntsville, Alabama, did a story about a company town down there, a lot of federal workers and contractors down there. This is a whole community that's going to be affected by that.
They view this thinking in the White House, and Mike is right that's the thinking in there right now is shortsighted and if the president can't get his head around the potential long-term implications are on this, then they really don't see a way. They've got to find a way to get him to understand.
KING: We'll get back to that dynamic of the president blinking. Does this help the president?
I just showed you some polling that's pretty damning. People blame the president and Republicans much more than the Democrats. ABC/"Washington Post" also asked, do you support a border wall?
Forty-two percent of Americans say yes. That's a minority, but it's up, 34 percent. The more the president talks about this, the numbers are moving some.
Is there enough in there say, OK, the Republicans are getting nervous but the Democrats have to give the president something because there's some support for the border wall there. Logic tells you that's your compromise. But, this is not logical.
HENDERSON: Right. And you look at who this Democratic caucus is, obviously led by Nancy Pelosi, the most diverse caucus that the Democrats have ever seen, and they campaigned hard against this president. They see this wall as a symbol of xenophobia, of race baiting, race mongering, and there's no way they're going to give the president what he wants on this wall. I think the other point is the idea that you can have a president who
would shut down the government and then gets what he wants. That's the kind of person that I also think Democrats and probably Republicans don't want to set either. So the Democrats are incredibly dug in on this, in terms of no funding for the border wall.
BENDER: You just wonder if the president has missed his opportunity for this.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BENDER: He came into office in the main promise on the border wall. It was two years ago. There's been a midterm election since then. And, you know, using this -- a lot of people support the border wall. Not a lot of people support using the national emergency as the excuse.
Why -- remember a year ago, we were coming out of a shutdown a year ago. A shutdown that was over an immigration dispute a year ago. So, you know, there's a logical disconnect here for a lot of voters.
KING: Right. To your point about the timing. The president had his own party ran the show in town for two years. Yes, they need some Democratic votes, but it was much easier to get a deal before January, before Nancy Pelosi got a speaker's gavel. We'll come back to that one.
Up next for us here, the Democratic field gets some new entries and politicians say, oh, and yes they do, the darnedest things like take us along to the dentist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETO O'ROURKE (D), FORMER TEXAS REPRESENTATIVE: So I'm here at the dentist, and we're going to continue our series on the people of the border. I'm here with Diana, my dental hygienist. Diana is going to tell us about growing up in El Paso.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:28:38] KING: Welcome back.
Two new generation Democrats stepped into the 2020 race this weekend. The former San Antonio mayor and Obama housing secretary, Julian Castro, declared his candidacy yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTRO: We've always been our best when united by something bigger. In this journey, in the days to come, together we will show that hope can be bigger than fear, that light can be bigger than darkness and that truth can be bigger than lies.
And as long as we work for it, tomorrow will always be better than today. So let's go work. Vamonos!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Hawaii congresswoman and Iraq war veteran, Tulsi Gabbard, told CNN's Van Jones Friday she's in and will make a formal announcement this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: There's a whole host of issues that I'm looking forward to addressing. And there's one main issue central to the rest and that's the issue of war and peace. And I look forward to being able to get into this and to talk about it in depth when we make our announcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Castro is 44. Gabbard, 37. Both young and both long shots as Democrats begin the process of deciding who and what they want.
Let's take a look at it. There could be 30 Democrats or more of all stripes all across the country thinking about it. Thinking about it.
[08:29:54]
But what do the Democrats want?
If they are looking -- it doesn't want to work here, here we go -- if they're looking for somebody with blue collar appeal to reach out to Trump voters, is that the former Vice President Joe Biden? Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown? Maybe some other long shots? A former governor and mayor in this mix? We'll see.
Looking for an outspoken liberal. Will Bernie Sanders run again? Elizabeth Warren has been the most active. Beto O'Rourke says he doesn't like labels but look at his positions. He's a pretty liberal candidate as well.
What about the 2018 election? You looking for diversity? You looking for women? Maybe an African-American candidate? Plenty of choices, at least potential choices for the Democrats there.
President Trump is in his 70s. You want a new generation like Castro who got in yesterday? Another mayor here, members of congress as well. What does the party want?
Senator Kamala Harris, too, plans a formal announcement very soon. She is right now using a book tour. You might call it a soft launch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: We've had enough of these powerful voices that are trying to sow hate and division among us. But I'm done with that. I'm really done with it. It's not because -- because it is not only wrong from a moral perspective. It is unproductive if we actually want to be on a trajectory that is about achieving success and progress. It's counterproductive, and it is morally wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It is fascinating to watch the new faces, the diversity, the wide, big field of candidates we're going have. And that's my big question is, you know, let them all get in. Let them all start to campaign. What does the party want?
Before you pick a who -- before you pick a who, you have to say, what do we want to go up against Donald Trump?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. And I don't think people know yet. And that's why you've got people coming out of all these events. I was at the one with Kamala Harris. There were about 1,500 people there. I mean it's D.C.; they paid about $40 to get in there and get her book.
Some of them had issues with her in terms of her record on criminal justice reform. This is a real progressive. They want to see how she answers that.
But you know it. I mean Warren has been in Iowa. Big crowds there. She's very much talking about policy. She's very much talking about the rigged economy and corporations, and she would be a voice in terms of economic populism.
But all of the Democrats I talk to are glad that the field is this huge. Because you imagine if there are 30 people running, my goodness, you're going to be touching every aspect of the party. Every sort of ideology, and you are going to be setting up organizations in all of these states that eventually are going to be important in the general.
(CROSSTALKING)
KING: Go ahead.
JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ASSOCIATED PRESS: What Democrats want is a candidate who can beat Trump.
HENDERSON: Yes.
KING: Right.
PACE: I think ultimately, that is -- more than their policy on health case, their policy on the economy, they want someone who can get up on stage in a general election and take on Trump.
They don't know what that looks like though. They don't know if they want somebody who is going to go toe-to-toe and be just as aggressive as Trump is. They don't know if it should be somebody who can rise above that. They don't if it should be an experienced politician or a new face right now.
That's what's going to make this so interesting. But I do find in talking to Democratic voters and in talking to strategists, people who are deciding whether to jump on to this campaign -- that is the driving factor right now. Can I look at you and see you defeating Trump in November of 2020?
KING: And so if you're Tulsi Gabbard and you're still in your 30s, number one, can you win a Democratic primary? Can you make a name for yourself in the Democratic primary when -- this is an old headline from "The Daily Beast". Headline: "HQ in Damascus? Tulsi Gabbard, Bashar Assad's Favorite Democrat Running for President".
She did have a meeting with Assad -- quite controversial. She also said back in 2000, Andrew Kaczynski from our KFile found this. "as Democrats, we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists." Pro-Assad with some, at least, questionable past comments on gay rights. Not a great place to start in a Democratic primary.
MICHAEL BENDER, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": No. You know, what this kind reminds me of is 2016 on the Republican side. When you had Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and all the Republicans saying this is the best, biggest field we've ever had. And they ended up with Donald Trump.
Trump was not part of that discussion for the establishment Republicans. It will be interesting to see what kind of dynamic, if that similar dynamic plays out in the Republican Party -- excuse me, Democratic Party and also how they handle Trump.
They'll have plenty of opportunities to handle Trump. And they have so far. Now, I don't know if Kamala Harris' book tour would necessarily be front page but it's not going to be front page as long as Trump is shouting about this shutdown and making -- and threatening national emergencies.
How are these Democrats going to break through Trump in something that his Republican opponents were never able to do?
KING: And one of the big questions is -- is it a completely new field? In the sense that does Bernie Sanders run again? For the second time this week Senator Sanders you'll hear here having to apologize to women who say that they were mistreated, that they were abused in some cases verbally and elsewise in his last campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: What they experienced was absolutely unacceptable and certainly not what a progressive campaign or any campaign should be about.
To the women in our campaign who were harassed or mistreated, I apologize. Our standards, our procedures, our safeguards were clearly inadequate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:35:01] KING: He was the big surprise, the depth of his support a big surprise for the last campaign. Does he run again or does he leave it to the new faces?
Well, that was kind of take two for him on that issue. And I think that's an indication that he certainly wants to keep that possibility open for himself and would really very much like to do that.
JULIE HIRSCHFELD-DAVIS, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK TIMES": I think there are those in the Democratic Party who would like to see him do that but there is this big diversity of new voices that are carrying forward the argument that he carried in the 2016 elections -- this very progressive argument.
And it was interesting after President Trump gave his Oval Office address on the shutdown and the wall, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer did their response. Bernie Sanders did his own response. He used the word "lie". He said -- talked about the President lies, and to Julie's earlier point, seems to be willing to be that person who would go toe-to-toe against President Trump in a more aggressive way than we hear some of these other voices doing.
I don't think he's going to be the only one in that space but I think this debate over who can beat Trump is going to take a more definitive form in the months to come and it won't be so much, well, we just want someone who can beat Trump. It's going to be a real debate inside the party about what that looks like.
KING: It's a great point because Elizabeth Warren, who is the most active out of the gate, the earliest out of the gate. She was In Iowa last weekend. She's in New Hampshire. We have a picture of her husband Bruce and her dog, Bailey made the trip up to New Hampshire yesterday.
She was specifically asked, you didn't mention Trump in your speech. Now, she's had, you know, the Pocahontas back and forth, the DNA test back and forth with the President. And some are saying if she learned a lesson that she needs to -- she just wants to -- let's talk policy right now and pull back from that, to not be in a constant war?
PACE: And I think for Warren in particular, this was part of her getting back to why she became a national star in the Democratic Party in the first place which had nothing to do with Trump. It predated Trump by several years. It got back to her views on economic policy, her brand of populism. So I think she was trying to sort of recapture some of that.
I do think that some of these Democrats are going to try to define themselves apart from Trump. They do want to present differences between themselves and their rivals in the Democratic Party. They do want to present some affirmative vision for what they want to do but ultimately they are going to have to prove to Democratic voters that they have a strategy for taking on Trump because as Michael said countless Republicans in 2016 were unable to do that.
He is a difficult politician to campaign against. He has an ability to suck up all of the oxygen and to make the debate all about him. And they have to find a way to break through that. KING: And there's every reason to believe at some point he'll try to pick his opponent by engaging in some of the combat with him. It's fascinating.
Anyone who tells you they have any idea how the Democratic race is going to turn out is making it up.
Up next, the shutdown is about the wall and about pride and power. The President is in a stare down with America's most powerful woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the buck stop with you over this shutdown.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The buck stops with everybody. They could solve this problem in literally 15 minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:37:52] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I find China, frankly, in many ways, to be far more honorable than crying Chuck and Nancy. I really do. I think that China is actually much easier to deal with than the opposition party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The President during the back and forth this week. The partisan divide over the border wall and broader immigration policy is huge. One very big reason that resolving the government shutdown is proving so difficult. But there's more to it, much more.
This is now a personal test of wills between the President and the new Democratic house speaker. And it is the curtain raising battle in a Washington with a dramatically changed power structure. "Time" colorfully and correctly plays up the art of the duel and smartly frames the two key players.
Quote, "The President is obsessed with playing to his hard core base of supporters and with his own self-image as a dominant alpha male and caving would be an epic humiliation that could render him a lame duck and weaken his position ahead of a tough re-election campaign."
It goes on to say, "If Pelosi's nerve falters and she cedes ground she would immediately risk losing the confidence of the fractious caucus she's labored to control. But if she succeeds in her standoff with Trump, it will be an important moment Washington, a signal that Congress, which has spent the past two years kowtowing to the President now has the power to thwart him."
And that's where we are. Two very proud, very stubborn -- sometimes that's a compliment, often that's a compliment -- people who show zero signs of blinking because they disagree on the border wall, but they understand this is bigger than that. BENDER: Yes. The White House understands some of those dynamics,
too. And they think that there is -- Pelosi can't have her first deal out of the gate be a compromise over the border wall. Where she wants to compromise, we'll see, but the -- what Pelosi has done is told Trump no.
This is not a president who inside the White House hears no. Gary Cohn who was sort of the most famous example so far in the White House of someone trying to kind of subvert Trump. He never told Trump no, he said. When it came to tariffs, he didn't tell him not to do it. He said let's wait until after tax reform. Let's try to target China more directly.
You sort of delay Trump. What happened inside the meeting last week, Trump said we'll lift the shutdown if, you know, Nancy, will you give us money after that for the wall? She looked at him and said no. And what did Trump do? Bye-bye.
PACE: Well, this is a president who also hasn't really been told no by Congress over his first two years in office. And that's the real sea change here is that now he's staring down a congress with a leader in the House like Nancy Pelosi who sees no incentive at this point to compromise with him. She feels like she has political momentum on her side given the results of the midterm elections.
And so how the President tries to operate in this new dynamic will determine whether he can be successful over the next two years. But he hasn't figured it out in terms of the shutdown.
HENDERSON: And even if the national emergency is declared. This is something he said he'd do if no deal comes about between he and the Democrats -- it's still not clear how the government gets reopened, right. I mean what does he sign? What comes out of the House that the Senate agrees to? So this -- I mean this looks worse almost by the day.
[08:45:06] HIRSCHFELD-DAVIS: Well -- and the degree to which he has miscalculated and misunderstood Nancy Pelosi at this early stage in the game is actually quite striking.
I mean in that first situation room meeting right after the first of the year, right before she became speaker, he said and members of his team well once you get past the speaker election, when she gets the gavel, you're going to be more willing to make a deal with us.
Are you kidding me? The minute she got that gavel, she got more leverage if anything and was even more, to the point of the article you just read, more sort of in a mode of, I've got to give my people what they want. And it's what she wants, which is to say no to this wall idea.
And you know, now they are thinking, well, now that federal workers have missed one paycheck, then the Democrats are going to come to the table. Then Nancy Pelosi is going to be forced to come back to the table. This is a supreme miscalculation of the political sort of situation that she's facing. And as long as that's the case, he's not going to be able to do a deal with her.
KING: Again we're at day 23. I suspect we'll be here at day 30 next Sunday. Let's hope not for the 800,000 people. But there's no reason to see an off ramp at the moment because of the big dynamics and two very proud, stubborn people.
Our reporters share from their notebooks next including whether the controversial congressman Steve King might finally, finally have gone too far.
[08:46:19] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Let's head one last time around the INSIDE POLITICS table, ask our great reporters to share a little something from their notebooks to help get you out ahead of the big political news just around the corner.
Julie Pace.
PACE: Later this month, members of the Republican National Committee are going to be gathering in New Mexico. And one of the things that they might be discussing is whether to formally endorse President Trump in the 2020 election.
There are two draft resolutions right now that are circulating among members. And the fact that the RNC could be considering this really shows that there is some real nervousness among Republicans about the prospects of a primary challenge to Trump. If the RNC does come out and formally endorse Trump, it would make it all the more difficult for a Republican challenger to use any kind of party apparatus, get on the stage with Trump in a debate in a primary.
Now most Republicans that you talk to think that regardless of what the RNC does, it would be almost impossible for a Republican primary challenger to defeat Trump in 2020. But there is real -- a real worry that they could at least beat him up, damage him and weaken him going into that general election.
KING: Pat Buchanan would be an example from relatively recent history. We shall see. Sounds a tad undemocratic but we shall see.
Michael.
BENDER: My notebook is some of the holes in the Trump administration right now. And let me just paint a quick picture. The only cabinet meeting so far of 2019, President Trump is seated next to an acting secretary of defense and an acting secretary of interior. Across from him is the acting attorney general, to the right is the acting head of the White House budget office. He's acting because the former White House budget chief is now acting chief of staff for the White House.
My reporting shows that Trump is in no rush to make appointments or nominations to most of these spots. Why? Because there's a thought in the Oval Office that these acting chiefs are more beholden to the President now than they'll ever be.
It's important in this moment if you are trying to squeeze $5.6 billion out of the Pentagon, out of a Jim Mattis-less Pentagon for a border wall between Mexico and the U.S.
KING: Also sounds a tad undemocratic.
Nia.
HENDERSON: So I talked to a handful of Democrats in South Carolina. Primarily black Democrats. The subject was Joe Biden.
Joe Biden, beloved of course, in South Carolina particularly by African-American Democrats but they had some pretty harsh words to say about Joe Biden. A lot of sentences started with, I love Joe Biden, but -- he isn't showing any sense of urgency. He hasn't really reached out to many folks in South Carolina. They have no idea what he's going to do.
And in the meantime, they have heard from Warren. They have heard from Booker. They've even heard from like Merkley as well. And they are trying to figure out at this point who they're going to back.
A lot of that talent might go to somebody like Booker, might go to somebody like Harris, might go to someone like Warren, might go to somebody like Beto.
So there is a lot of frustration on the ground in a state like South Carolina where black Democrats are going to be so important. And then you see, if you are Joe Biden, that might be the first state you might actually want to compete in and could actually win because of your strong ties to folks in that state.
But so far they feel like he's letting a little grass grow under his feet as the others really work hard and show a sense of urgency.
KING: I've got a feeling now that you've put that on the record, Delaware area codes popping up in South Carolina.
Julie.
HIRSCHFELD-DAVIS: Well, I'm going to be continuing to watch the fallout over Steve King, the congressman from Iowa's racist comments last week to our newspaper questioning why white supremacy and when white nationalism became such a bad thing.
Steve King has been in congress for 15 years. He's been making comments like this for quite some time.
But the notable thing this week or last week was that some Republicans now are coming forward and saying this is unacceptable. You have Kevin McCarthy the minority leader, Steve Scalise the whip saying, you know, this is -- he has to apologize for this.
The question is really is going to be whether we hear more from Republicans and particularly from President Trump on this issue. President Trump was very close with Steve King from the very beginning before he declared his candidacy. He was appearing with Steve King in Iowa.
Steve King was talking about a border wall long before Donald Trump was talking about a border wall. And obviously President Trump has faced some of the same questions that Steve King has faced about his rhetoric and whether he has been promoting racist thought and racist thinking on Capitol Hill and in Washington.
And so it will be very interesting to see how the President deals with this. Will he go anywhere near it? I wouldn't imagine so. But there's going to be mounting pressure for the President to say something. Democrats are already calling for Steve King to be dumped.
KING: About time for the other Republicans but I wouldn't hold your breath for the President.
I'll close with this. Most of the Republican frustration about a shutdown with no exit strategy is directed at the President. But the Vice President is also the target of a heavy dose of criticism from Republicans on Capitol Hill and from GOP-leaning groups around town.
[08:55:01] On the Hill, the big beef is that Pence apparently had no clue the President planned his last minute about-face that led to a shutdown Republican leaders have repeatedly made clear to the President and the Vice President they viewed as a big mistake.
Many GOP establishment groups used the VP as their White House contact. They feel burned and they view it as more proof Pence has little influence on the boss.
Now some of this is no doubt unfair. Just part of a broader GOP bad mood because of the shutdown and the rise of the Democrat =s in the House. Still, some veteran Republicans say a Vice President always focused on his own future should understand he's in a bad place at the moment.
That's it for INSIDE POLITICS. Again, thanks for sharing your Sunday morning.
Hope you can catch us weekdays as well. We're here at noon Eastern.
Don't go anywhere. Up next "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER". Jake's guests include the Democratic Senator Mark Warner and Republican Senator Ron Johnson.
Stay with us throughout the day and have a great Sunday.
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