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Trump Backs Down From State of the Union Showdown; Dems Frustrated with Trump Cabinet Secretaries Refusing to Testify; Biden Defends Working with GOP Ahead of Possible 2020 Bid. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 24, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:54] JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Here's something you don't see every day. A Fox News web headline, "Trump Blinks". There you see it. An issue of course to remarkable presidential retreat in the big State of the Union stare down with the Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It was this hour yesterday when the President challenged Speaker Pelosi, sending a letter making clear he intended to deliver his State of the Union speech Tuesday night as scheduled in the House Chamber.

But by nightfall, the President had yes blinked, backing down after the speaker made clear, there will be no State of the Union welcome mat until the government is reopened. The President announces he will give a great State of the Union once the shutdown ends. To her part, the speaker said she hopes now, they can move on to the important stuff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: I'm glad we could get that off the table because I know it was the source of many questions. It is so unimportant in the lives of the American people in terms of especially those who are victims of the shutdown, hostages to the President's applause line in a campaign speech. Thank goodness we put that matter to rest and then we can get on to the subject at hand. Open up government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Two very interesting things. One, the President did blink, but that's uncharacteristic especially if you read the letter he released just at noon yesterday to several hours later saying never mind is a big concession or retreat from the President. Why?

And number two, she could have gloated right there. She took a couple little digs at the President but she did not gloat. She did not over -- she didn't over do it I guess, I'll put it that way, what's behind that?

ELIANA JOHNSON, WHITE HOUSE REPOTER, POLITICO: You know, my question is why isn't the President saying, "I'll give an alternative venue and I'll take my message on the road". He had two days of travel held after the planned travel after the State of the Union. One in West Virginia, state where he has a lot of supporters. Those days are no longer held for travel which suggested he planned to give it and then take his message on the road, which is pretty customary.

There is no reason that he still couldn't do that and I wonder if the President feels -- he sees these polls and he feels that his message may not be popular right now.

KING: If you look, his Oval Office address and then his Saturday address, his numbers have gone down, kept going down.

JOHNSON: So, I wonder whether that's at the root of this.

[12:35:10] CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: I think also there is a really acknowledgment from the President and people around him of the ceremonial and the symbolic power of doing the State of the Union traditional way as oppose to. We know they were looking at options if, you know, to do something else, go to a border state bay or hold a rally. And it just -- I think that it wouldn't have the same impact and there is a recognition of that.

KING: It's a unique stage for any president if this president is going this way right now. He's going this way right now and so at the end of this, he's going to need something to try to go back up. You would think that would be a platform he would want.

And here are some of the reactions from conservatives. We know the President pays attention not much more than he pays attention to the base out in the country which tends to follow him. There's a chattering class in New York or Washington, he pays attention to it a lot

And Eric Erickson here, lives in Georgia. "To both abandon in the State of the Union because Pelosi says so and abandon his wall because Pelosi says so, would mean the President is not a master negotiator, but someone who can be bullied by a San Francisco liberal. That would go terribly for a battle against Kamala Harris."

This is Laura Ingraham, a Fox News host on Twitter last night, "Bad decision @Potus. Go to America and give the nation the State of the Union, send the written form to petty Pelosi."

So the President base not happy here and if you take Eric Erickson's point saying, "OK, you made this decision, you better not back down on the wall".

PERRY BACON, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: I mean really (ph), I'm a little baffled by this to be telling you. This is not normally how Trump behaves. I do think it's important to know is the first letter I initially was thinking is he going to show up at the Capital the Secret Service and demand walk in the building.

So it is important to note that we say Trump violates norms law, in this case he respected that fact that Congress is its own branch and did not try to like use up its authority. That is important to note here. I will be curious to see like what happens next. The President here, I think, is a little worrisome also in a sense of fight in five to six years as President told, Joe Biden told don't come to the State of the Union by the Republican House or Senate. I mean there is a Republican House. There's a little bit of a question about do we want this kind to continue. Do we want this kind of processes that are going to be broken down. We've had the State the Union for a long time. I don't know if this would exactly the structure we want to see in the future.

LUCEY: And what's interesting one of the words he used in his tweet last night was prerogative. It was Nancy Pelosi's prerogative which was an interesting for the recognition of her power which has been a, you know, I thought difficult.

KING: He found prerogative in the norms as he heated an off ramp as he found it.

This will bring you to the reporting, our Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill says, Lisa Murkowski will now join Susan Collins and Cory Gardner. So we have three Republican Senators -- three Republican senators who say they're going to move over. That's significant but it's nowhere near enough, right?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You need 13 to actually advance the bill today from the procedural vote and you need 19 to make it -- sorry, 20 to make it veto approved which the President objected to it that would be the problem. They're not going to get anywhere close to it. That's the bottomline of it. But you're seeing the facts --

KING: Or that Collins on the ballot in 2020, Murkowski has worried a lot about the impacted this time (ph).

MATTINGLY: That's real bite in her spot and she's very, very frustrated about it. Look, these are the three we expected. There might be one or two more. But in terms of the comparison -- there's no wow there.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: Oh my god, oh my god Mr. President you're cracking.

MATTINGLY: A lot of time is the broader conference is in the same place.

KING: Right.

MATTINGLY: It's been for 34 days.

KING: That's interesting. Can -- well then what, what I guess? What is the circuit breaker? But I'll just leave it --

BACON: Mitch McConnell I think is the answer is --

KING: Who' s going to have to what? Get Schumer in a room. Talk to the President break it somehow? BACON: That's right.

KING: OK, we'll leave that one on you. Mr. Kentucky, that's on you now.

Up next, a new source of Democratic anger at the Trump administration.

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[12:42:59] KING: Fresh source of frustration for Democrats on Capitol Hill today. Trump administration Cabinet Secretaries, now cancelling on Congress. Both the treasury secretaries Steve Mnuchin and the House and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar have refused invitations to testify on Capitol Hill.

The number two Democrat in the House, Steny Hoyer telling CNN, "It's what I expect from people who think they are authoritarian leaders of our government" -- of Mnuchin's decision to say no. Hoyer added, "What kind of democracy does he think he's working in".

This is important because of where we are. Early in the Democratic House, these committees believe and they constitutionally have a right to oversight and they're saying come on up. You know, for the first week or two, you can understand a little give us time to prepare, but are we at a breaking point here and what's the significance?

MATTINGLY: Look, I would say, one, this can't last forever because the committees couldn't force people to come up if they want them to come up. I do think there's a little bit of gamesmanship both because of the shutdown that's going on right now. That's an easy excuse to say we can't come up. That was what Mnuchin said, we've got more technical people that can come up and explain what's going on in the department right now that would know the issues better than me. And I want to keep doing this.

But I think there's real gamesmanship going on. OK, let's play this game for a little bit and you've covered the Hill. You know how legend fairs works with their counterparts on the Hill or their opposition on the Hill as they try and set the stage or set the standards for a more agreeable hearing to the two of them. At some point this is going to have to end.

I think the real thing that's interesting that's interesting right now is, it's probably better to go in earlier before committee staff, particularly committee investigative staff, have a lot of time to get their hands on documents which could make the hearing more painful for you. And so I'm a little perplexed is to why they're waiting a little bit but I do think there's -- it's a position to gamble.

KING: And that's a key point. You set the tone early on, you cooperate and then if you have a different caught one down the line, maybe you go through a relationship where you could hit the pause button or slowdown in the documents. Or do you right out of the box to be confrontational, this seems confrontational.

JOHNSON: You know, my take on this is that it is -- I think Phil's right. It's a preview of what we're going to see for the next two years which is sparring not only the President and these committees with who are issuing document requests. But also his cabinet secretaries and his most senior aides are going to get requests to appear before these committees, those dynamic is going to become a familiar one between now and 2020.

[12:45:11] KING: And, again, the House Republican number two, Kevin McCarthy, saying this on his question to Manu Raju, "Why don't we have a ready committee focused on solving the shutdown problem, then we can talk about what they want to do".

That's a punt if you will. I would give Kevin McCarthy a bit more standing there if say the House Republicans when they have the majority had brought up and asked up questions about clean water and clean air to the EPA about never mind.

Up next, Joe Biden takes on critics from his own party refers the Boston Mayor Marty Walsh. Or as we say back home Marty Walsh name drops the guy, they call the goat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MARTY WALSH, BOSTON: We have the pro bowl next Sunday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you do. We can't be in it. We're fine.

WALSH: Come on down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not of much time. Really I can't be there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[12:50:03] KING: Former Vice President Joe Biden back in the arena today after a week in which several new generation in unapologetic legal liberal Democrats jump in, in the 2020 fray. Speaking to a meeting of mayors here in Washington, Biden addressed the recent story noticed some Michigan Democrats are angry of him for his kind words for a Republican in last years midterm campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER UNITED STATES SENATOR: I get in trouble. I read in "New York Times" today that I -- that one of my problems is if I were to run for president, I like Republicans. OK, well bless me father for I have sinned.

But, you know, from where I come from, I don't know how you get anything done. I don't know how you get anything done as we start talking to one another again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: An issue there is "The New York Times" story noting that in October 2018, Biden did praise Republican Congressman Fred Upton. "Times" put it this way, "Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience. Alluding to Mr. Upton's support for a landmark medical research law, Mr. Biden called him a champion in the fight against cancer, and "One of the finest guys I've ever worked with"."

So that common and like you see it, he did work with Fred Upton, but the question is with the party moving to the left, does it become a crime in the primary to have said nice things, to have worked with Republicans is that -- is that how you get at Joe Biden?

BACON: I don't think that's going to kill him with actual voters is what I would say. I think he's general, he is probably more to the center than Elizabeth Warren or Senator Harris. And so I do think he probably has. And the question about where the Democratic electorate (ph) is there are more moderates and I think we appreciate. You know, we talked about the activism energies on the left but I think there are moderates.

And I think Biden has like he's to be made, maybe I can unify the country in a way that Senator Warren can't. But I'm not sure if that's going to work in the primary and I suspect he knows that is why he's been kind of not sure about running or not.

LUCEY: And with the Democratic activists in Iowa and New Hampshire, they're looking for a, you know, a liberal candidate. So, when there are so many, one of the things the primary has so many options and there are so many people out there. Do you want to turn to Biden or do you want to look at maybe 30 or 40 after people out there who might, you know, better fit your need.

KING: And if you're just looking at Iowa when you're Joe Biden, you're thinking Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton that I comment is the year of parent and, woops (ph) at the base says that's not what we want.

LUCEY: No.

KING: But the Biden message would be, I'm a president. And nobody can question that I'm qualified to be president. They can question my position. We can have debate about this issue and that issue, but everybody can look at me and say he's ready to be president. Don't you want me up against Trump?

JOHNSON: I mean, unfortunately that was Hillary Clinton's message and it's shown not to have worked against Donald Trump. And so I do think that the primaries going to be about Democrats calculating what will work against Trump?

And right now it seems like Nancy Pelosi is the only person who has really found that formula. But I certainly think that's going to be a heated topic in smoke-filled rooms among Democrats going into 2020.

KING: When they draft Pelosi movement starts, I will -- we will trace right back here. To that point about the party going to the left, this is Bernie Sanders in a GQ profile. He's an independent from Vermont. But he did as a PT vote against the big giant aircraft Hillary Clinton. He landed a lot of shots.

And he says this, "The ideas we brought forth in 2016 which were considered to be extreme and fringe and out of step with the American people are now what is in, by and large, the Democratic national platform and they're being adopted by candidates across the country. We have had more success in ideologically changing the party than I would have dreamed possible."

It's hard to argue with that number one. And the question is part of the Sanders rationales I have to run again because otherwise maybe people will back away from it or has the cement hardened. And whether Bernie runs or not, he's moved the party left.

MATTINGLY: Look at every candidate is out there right now. Medicare for all. The key issues that Bernie Sanders campaign down where there's minimum wage, Medicare for all and they're not all completely tied to one another but the key issue is issues that we're thought to be on the fringe issues that the Clinton campaign was very wary of embracing at all are now the sensual themes of every Democratic we've seen up to this point. And they have to answer to all of those positions and whether or not they back them.

And I think, look, you've seen from the Biden team coming out and talking about how nobody can challenge is progressive bonafides. He's done things on LGBT on all sorts of issues that are unquestionably put him in a different place than how people are trying to fake him. But he is in a different lane than those individuals, the people who have backed on a lot of things, with people who have already started to run. I think the biggest question now that gets to it is, is that lane going to be a place where Democrats want to be and how are they going to figure that out.

The policy stuff though, Bernie's right. You can't argue with that. I don't know if he runs and I don't know if he runs if he has a chance to win but what he did on the policy front for the party is very real.

KING: And Hillary Clinton said you can't sell that. Hillary Clinton's point in the primaries which show that, one (ph), you can't sell that in the general election. I think that's what 2020 is going to be about. Can the Democrats sell in more liberal agenda to the country?

JOHNSON: Well --

BACON: This is totally high noted, the centers (ph) agenda that or either so good.

(CROSSTALK)

[12:55:05] JOHNSON. One of the things that I think that Trump exposed was that the Republicans had their policy -- their assumptions about people's policy preference is reversed. They thought that Middle America was fiscally conservative and socially liberal and it's actually more the opposite. The people are more socially conservative and fiscally liberal.

KING: That's a great point. You mean, the country is out ahead of Washington. God forbid.

JOHNSON: Yes.

KING: We should learn that lesson all of us. Thanks for joining us in INSIDE POLITICS. See you back here this time tomorrow, Brianna Keilar starts after a quick break. Have a good afternoon.

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