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CNN: Trump Put Miller in Charge of Immigration and Border Issues; CNN: Nielsen Forced to Resign After Spending Weeks in Limbo; Trump Suggests Throwing Out Asylum; Nielsen Speaks to Press; Battle over Trump's Tax Returns. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 08, 2019 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You mentioned production has been cut.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

KOSIK: Tomorrow we're getting orders and deliveries for the first quarter. It's expected to be bad for Boeing.

BOLDUAN: Well, it's a bad situation that they're dealing with.

KOSIK: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And forget Boeing's stock price, what it means for these families is even more important.

KOSIK: Of course.

BOLDUAN: Good to see you, though, Alison. Really appreciate it.

KOSIK: You got it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for joining me, guys. "INSIDE POLITICS" with John King starts right now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Kate.

And welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

Kirstjen Nielsen is out at Homeland Security, as President Trump's immigration frustration escalates and hardliners seize control of border policy. On the way out, Secretary Nielsen is said to see the president as unhinged and looking to ignore the law to get his way.

Plus, Wednesday or never. House Democrats have a deadline for the IRS to surrender the president's taxes. But team Trump waves it off and says, see you in court.

And, new tensions today with Iran. The president overrides objections from the Pentagon and the CIA and designates Iran's elite military unit as a terrorist group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: With this designation, the Trump administration is simply recognizing a basic reality. The IRGC will take its rightful place on the same list as terror groups it supports, Lebanese Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Katiba (ph) Hezbollah, among others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We begin the hour with the Homeland Security's secretary forced exit and what that exit tells us about the president's immigration frustration. Kirstjen Nielsen tendering her resignation yesterday, left no choice by a boss chronically frustrated by illegal immigration. Today in Washington, twin narratives emerging from both sides trying to spin her departure. The bottom line from the president's camp, sources say the president viewed Nielsen as ineffective, her response to the border dilemma as too weak, and her actions insufficient to drive down what he sees as crisis level border crossing numbers. But sources aligned with Secretary Nielsen paint a very different picture of Nielsen trying to accommodate a, quote, unhinged president, demanding unreasonable, sometimes, quote, impossible actions on the southern border.

Today a source familiar with internal White House debates say those demands included bringing back the family separation policy the administration abandoned back in 2018 after furious public and legal backlash. Judged by his tweets just hours after Nielsen's resignation, the president wants a hard reset. Quote, our country is full, he says, before again suggesting he just might close the border.

The reset is coupled with a re-emergent Stephen Miller, the immigration White House policy hawk who, sources say, is pushing for even more changes at the Department of Homeland Security and who sources say the president has told, you are now in charge of all immigration and border issues.

Let's go straight to CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

Kaitlan, more than an interesting day. What next in all of this turmoil?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a great question, what is next? And we know, John, that the president is focused like a laser on his immigration right now and his frustration is evidence not just on Twitter but also in the staffing changes that they're making and what could be policy changes.

Now, we do have sources telling us that the president has recently revived the idea of reinstating that family separation policy. And, John, that comes just after days ago the federal government filed court documents showing that it could take them up to two years to reunite the families and to identify -- not to reunite, excuse me, to identify those children that were separated their parents during that zero tolerance immigration policy being carried out.

Now Stephen Miller also is apparently pushing for other changes at DHS that he's unhappy with. And inside the West Wing he's essentially seen as the president's personal immigration adviser who is really the one that the president has put in charge. He's got him leading initiatives, chairing meetings. He's the one who's really running immigration out of the West Wing with President Trump taking his opinion greatly on things.

So the question is, are there going to be any more staffing changes? Now we do know there could be one in recent days, and that's because Claire Grady is currently the acting deputy secretary at DHS. John, she's technically in line to take over for Kirstjen Nielsen when she steps down officially on Wednesday, but the president has nominated -- has said he wants the CBP commissioner to instead take over. So that would be a forced resignation from Claire Grady expected in the coming days because we're being told by sources she is not likely to step down, John.

KING: All right, we'll keep our eye on that. Sounds like more drama ahead.

Kaitlan Collins live at the White House. Appreciate that.

With me in studio to share their reporting and their insights, Margaret Talev with "Bloomberg," CNN's Jeff Zeleny, Tarini Parti with "BuzzFeed News," and Karoun Demirjian with "The Washington Post."

We knew for a long time the president was unhappy with Kirstjen Nielsen. We also knew for a long time she was trying to get back in his good graces. What is it? Is this something she did or is it just his frustration -- he sees the border crossing numbers, he sees the incoming, he sees all the criticism from hardliners on immigration who supported him, saying, where's our wall? What is it?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I think, in one respect, her nine lives sort of ran out. I mean I can't remember the time -- the number of times where we thought she was on the verge of leaving. Of course, she was brought into the job by John Kelly, the former White House chief of staff. So conventional wisdom, which has often been wrong in this administration, was that she would be leaving when he did.

[12:05:05] But that didn't happen. And she did, I'm told, sort of, you know, return to the president's good graces, I guess for a lack of a better word. And, you know, she adopted his language. She tried to get his attention through television interviews.

But over the last week, she felt that she was in limbo. She was trying to get his attention in television interviews even last week here on CNN and other places. But she was supposed to be in London and other parts of Europe last week. She raced back. By that point at knew -- she knew that this was not tenable.

So, look, the bottom line is, you cannot please President Trump on this issue because he does not respect the rule of law. She was willing to adopt his language, but not break the law for him. So I think that's why she's gone. KING: And to this characterization you get of an unhinged president

from people who support her perspective. Bringing back the family separation policy on the table, the president now threatening again, and we went through this last week, from Monday through Saturday, now again to potentially clothes border.

The president -- let's listen to the president. This is on Friday. The president talking about just throwing out the whole asylum system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congress has to act. They have to get rid of catch and release, chain migration, visa lottery. They have to get rid of the whole asylum system because it doesn't work. And, frankly, we should get rid of judges. You can't have a court case every time somebody steps their foot on our ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You see his frustration. You see his anger. Number one, they have not sent a specific proposal up to the Congress, which they could. Number two, it would never pass now. We have a Democratic House and a Republican Senate.

But this idea, you know, this is a problem that dates back 25 years. There's been paralysis on this issue well before Donald Trump came on the scene. However, this idea he -- you know, you could -- if you had more judges, you could handle the asylum cases faster. He wants fewer judges.

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": A lot of the things that the president proposed potentially make the problem worse. You know, when he talks about cutting off aid to Central American countries where there is a problem that is sending people running north and towards the border. That's not necessarily going to be there. When he talks about cutting down the number of judges, when really you could process these cases much faster if you had more judges in the system and a more streamlined system to handle asylum claims. That's potentially going to cause even more of a backlog.

And so the president tends to make these sort of tough, I'm going to punish people for when I don't like the way things are going sorts of arguments that do not necessarily address the source of the problem and could potentially actually make it metastasize. So I'm sure a lot of people share his frustration that this has been going on for over two decades and would love to be like, throw up their hands and say, OK, let's just start the whole thing over again, but you can't fundamentally do that. You have a live, active border with real people that are crossing it and laws in the United States that, you know, people depend on both when they're in this country and when they're looking at it from outside.

So, like you said, there's no -- there's no middle ground right now politically to actually win this issue. And when the president talks like this, he makes it even less likely that they (INAUDIBLE). KING: And so we'll get more to the new sheriff, if you will, in a few

minutes, the gentlemen the president has asked to take over, but can anyone -- the president -- again, Congress isn't going to do anything. Both parties -- both parties, at least the president -- I don't know about the Republicans in the Senate, but House Democrats, presidential candidates raising these issues. They think immigration helps them in the election climate. The president Clearly thinks it's going to help him again as it did in 2016.

This is from "The Washington Post" on Friday of who's helping the president drive this. In a recent Oval Office meeting, Trump told Stephen Miller he would be in charge of handling all immigration and border affairs, according to officials familiar with the meeting. Miller has encouraged the president to take harder stances with Mexico than Jared Kushner, who has sought instead for deepened cooperation with the Mexican government. Miller affirms and encourages the president's more hardline instincts, such as the proposal to shut down the border.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "BLOOMBERG": Yes, you can't discount -- you shouldn't discount the importance of Steve Miller in thinking through what the president's doing now. He's always been the voice in the president's ear, but now he's empowered not just to be the voice in the president's ear, but to recommend and to push personnel decisions as well. And so if you're anyone who's a holdover from the John Kelly era or the Kirstjen Nielsen era inside DHS, you should be, I guess, worried. You should be wondering about your job security at this point.

There's a couple kind of other moving parts, and one is that I think the president felt a little bit embarrassed last week about what was reported as a sudden like flip-flop or change of heart on close the border, and he's now trying to double down and show, you know, that he actually really meant it.

KING: His own word -- it was his own words that led to the media coverage that he was backing down.

TALEV: It was, yes.

KING: Because he said I'm going to do it. His aides said he wasn't bluffing. And then he said, well, we're not going to do it for a year. We're going to tariff the cars instead and what -- something else that didn't quite make sense.

TALEV: Yes. No, yes, that's -- that's what happened.

And so -- but so the president understands, probably from looking at internal polling, that as a base issue, this is crucial. He has to not only continue messaging on getting tough on the border, but actually accomplish some of the stuff he's trying to do.

And I think part of letting -- getting rid of Kirstjen Nielsen is because he was never really on board with her to begin with and he always wanted to do this and he just experiences a sense of relief when he does something like this that he's always wanted to do. [12:10:03] But the other is that, as he's addressing his base now, he

can blame his inability to get some of this stuff done on her. She was the problem. I took care of her. She's gone now. I mean there's a limited amount of time between now and the 2020 election and this is going to be the strategy.

KING: And so you do have a crisis at the border, whether it's the way the president describes it or not is the subject for political debate and apparently the subject for the 2020 election because nothing's going to get done from a policy standpoint, is that where --

TALEV: This is -- this is a political --

KING: Is that what we're saying, zero gets done, even though you have the migrant crisis, even though you have the debate over the wall, even though you have the dreamers still in the -- on this side. You have the administration pushing for more guest workers to come into the country.

Here's the headlines, which gets at the politics of this. "The Huffington Post," "Cagin' Kirstjen Calls it Quits." Liberals blame her even though it's a Jeff Sessions policy. She became the face of the family separation policy that the Democrats say was inhumane. The president apparently might want to bring it back.

Breitbart, "Lady DACA Released." And so both sides are celebrating the resignation, you would say Humpty Dumpty was pushed, forced resignation of a cabinet official who, by most accounts, was trying to do her job in difficult circumstances.

TARINI PARTI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "BUZZFEED NEWS": That's exactly right. And what you're seeing from publications like Breitbart is sort of this skepticism we've seen from Trump loyalists this whole time. They view Nielsen as a sort of Bush person who came into the Trump administration. They never trusted her fully. They thought she was too liberal. And so now you're seeing her getting attacked from both sides.

And, you know, Nielsen's allies have tried to sort of craft her narrative as well saying she was, you know, in an impossible job, which she was, but she -- we're going to see her continue to be held as sort of a punch bag from both sides.

KING: And so as we continue the conversation, up next then, why the soon-to-be acting Homeland Security chief already seeing some resistance from what Tarini was just talking about, the president's base.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Straight to Alexandria, Virginia. Kirstjen Nielsen, the outgoing secretary of Homeland Security.

KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I don't have any new announcements. I just want to thank the president again for the tremendous opportunity to serve this country. I'm forever grateful and proud of the men and women of DHS who work so hard every day to execute their missions and to protect the homeland. I really look forward to continuing to support them from the outside.

I spent the last 24 hours since yesterday talking with government officials, with administration officials and members of Congress to ensure a smooth transition. As you know, DHS has a vast array of missions. I want to make sure that we continue to execute them all with excellence throughout the transition.

I share the president's goal of securing the border. I will continue to support all efforts to address the humanitarian and security crisis on the border. And other than that, I'm on my way to keep doing what I can for the next few days. So thank you all for being here.

QUESTION: Did you (INAUDIBLE) --

QUESTION: Did the president ask you to resign?

(CROSS TALK)

KING: Kirstjen Nielsen walking away from the microphone there outside her home in Alexandria, Virginia, not taking questions from reporters. Very interesting take there, smiling, trying to be in good spirits about it, saying that she will go back to her job. Also saying here's what was most noteworthy to me, that she supports the president's goal of securing the border. She did not say she supports the ways the president wants to do it, which I think is sort of where this cuts, right?

ZELENY: I think that's right. She also thanked him for his service, which is one thing -- or thanked him for the opportunity of allowing her to serve, of which is one thing that's required her.

She also said humanitarian. I noticed that that is one thing that she's been concerned about, sort of her legacy, you know, will she be sorted of blamed for this family separation policy. And in a respect, she will, because it happened on her watch. But by saying that she, you know, was in favor of a humanitarian policy, I think is interesting.

But, look, the reality here is, her departing is not going to change the problem. I mean the fact that the cabinet now is being essentially run on acting secretaries is a bigger issue for this administration. Does it matter in 2020? Probably not. But I think as a matter is if this government is functioning, it absolutely matters.

[12:15:09] KING: OK, we're going to bring in CNN's Jessica Schneider, who's also been tracking Kirstjen Nielsen's departure resignation, but a forced resignation.

Jess.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, you know, you really nailed it there. She said at the end, you know, I share in the president's goals here in securing the border. And that's really what we've learned has been the big clash is how exactly to secure the border. And it's been a tumultuous past week for Kirstjen Nielsen. You know, our reporting team has learned that Kirstjen Nielsen about one week ago, last Sunday, she jetted overseas for a meeting with European officials to discuss terror threats. She was also meeting with G7 officials. And just days after getting over to Europe, she basically cut her plans short. She decided to come back here to Washington, D.C., leaving that meeting, leaving it to her deputy, because she knew that with all of the increasing rhetoric from the president, that she had to get serious in the president's fashion, his way of doing things when it came to securing the border and stopping this -- what's become a record flow of migrants.

So we learned that she came back here to Washington. And last week she held a conference call. And in that conference call, interestingly, she said that her and her team were going to respond to the crisis at the border like a category five hurricane response. Now you would think that that would be some welcome words for the administration because it was really her signaling that she was going to get even tougher on immigration and even tougher on the border. But what we've learned is that her use of the term category five hurricane response really took administration officials by surprise, took them aback, in particular, and notably, the top adviser, Stephen Miller. He didn't really like that phrasing. And it turns out, he didn't feel that he was on the same page as Kirstjen Nielsen, that she hadn't been keeping him apprised of what exactly the plan was here.

So despite the fact that the Homeland Security secretary saying just there she shares the president's goal of securing the border, John, it appears that their idea of securing the border, where the president wanted her to get even tougher, perhaps wanted her to not stand by the laws of this country that allow Central American asylum seekers into the country -- that was one thing he told border officials when he was there on Friday -- that the Homeland Security secretary having to stick with the laws while the president wanted her to get even tougher.

John.

KING: And she has, again, with the good attitude there, shall we say, taking one for the team, not displaying any public displeasure with the president, although not completely agreeing with him. We do know from sources that she has been very frustrated thinking he's been asking her and others to break the law or ignore the law in enforcement.

Jess Schneider, appreciate that very much.

The job is now going to fall. Kirstjen Nielsen going to the office to help Kevin McAleenan make the adjustment. He's about to become the acting secretary. The president tweeting last night that he thought he would do a good job in the new job. And if you watch him here, he does look the part. We know the president loves central casting, right? Listen here. Looks just like the tough cop the president wants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MCALEENAN, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION COMMISSIONER: Two weeks ago I briefed the media and testified in Congress that our immigration system was at the breaking point. That breaking point has arrived this week at our border. And within that flow are thousands of criminals, smugglers, gang members and public safety threats that we're sworn to protect this country from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But you can also see, as we saw repeatedly with Nielsen, potential conflict ahead. The president's budget proposes cutting off funding to Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, the so-called golden triangle countries. This -- the gentleman about to take the job, on the record just a couple of weeks ago saying, that's a bad idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Seventy percent of the people you're apprehending come from three countries, is that what you said?

KEVIN MCALEENAN, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION COMMISSIONER: Correct.

GRAHAM: OK. Do you think it would be wise for us to invest in those countries to give them a better life so we'd have less of a problem?

MCALEENAN: I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Check your Twitter feed in the days and weeks ahead.

This is one of the issues that the professionals say, and you made this point at the beginning, the professionals say, yes, there's a problem coming out of Honduras, coming out of El Salvador, coming out of Guatemala, coming out of Mexico, coming out of other places as well. But those people are fleeing. Either they're fleeing either economic crises or political crises or the combination of political and economic crises. The president's mad at them. Says, cut off their money. The professionals would say, well, we get your frustration, but cutting off the money is only going to speed up the exit.

DEMIRJIAN: We'll see if McAleenan can kind of strike the verbal and tone balance where Trump is, you know, swayed enough by him saying things like, there are criminals among them and his, you know, forceful presence basically. If Trump trusts that, that he will not jump on every time he says that, you know, investment in those countries is a good idea. He has spoken about the migrant families as vulnerable families as well. I mean he does have -- seem to be a balanced person in terms of the way he's addressing this and that's why he's got support on both sides of the aisle in Congress still at this point.

KING: In Congress still. In Congress still.

DEMIRJIAN: Right. But the question is, can he -- can he talk tough on certain airwaves that the president's watching so the president does not get upset at him every time he doesn't talk as tough? And that may work well for the White House, too, because they cannot actually -- they need to keep the issue alive, as Margaret was saying, for the base, but if it gets that much worse, they may lose control of the issue. And that could happen even though you're talking about a limited time frame before 2020, so you kind of need somebody who can strike a balance that still keeps the president placated.

[12:20:22] KING: Let's just remind people who -- I'm sure most people aren't familiar with Kevin McAleenan, and let's look who he is. He's been U.S. Customs and Border Protection commissioner -- became that job, the top job, in March of 2018. He's a career official. Yes, he served in the Obama administration. The president's base already doesn't like that label. A lot of career servants served in Democratic and Republican administrations. But now it's a nuclear thing.

He's described as not an ideologue, not a fire breather, according to senior DHS officials. Said two weeks ago border crossings have reached a breaking point already, already. Here, this is it, the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a very conservative group, says, it's crucial that real Donald Trump nominate a strong, respected outsider for secretary of Homeland Security. We've seen what happens when he trusts immigration neophytes or Obama administration holdovers to implement his agenda. So there's shot one at the president, and he reads these things.

Here's Ann Coulter on Twitter, Trump's immigration agenda's a full- blown catastrophe because putting anyone other than Kris Kobach at DHS is like having the ACLU advise him on judges, instead of the Federalist Society.

Again, welcome to the job, Kevin McAleenan.

TALEV: Yes. Well, look, I mean, that's something to keep your eye on, also, by the way, is, does he decide, if he goes with someone like a Kris Kobach, he could have some confirmation problems in the position that's a confirmation position.

KING: Right.

TALEV: So is there a way to split the difference. If you're the head of DHS, you are supposed to be doing a lot of other stuff in addition to border protection.

KING: Right.

TALEV: Right, it's a whole job. Cyber is supposed to be a huge piece of it. The president is primarily interested right now in the border crossings piece of it. But if the Department of Homeland Security secretary stopped doing all the other stuff, someone else would have to pick up the slack. So --

KING: And the deputies going to be apparently forced out. So you have another agency where you're going to have staffing -- you know, experienced staffing issues.

TALEV: So he has a strategic decision --

KING: Right.

TALEV: Which is, does he take the person who he wants to be the face and the voice of the border stuff and make them the next DHS, , or does he come up with some different role for that person and make the DHS the person who handles all this other stuff for the acting, for the gentleman who's going to step into that role now? This is an opportunity to be up front with the president about what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do. There's very little upside into getting into this job and then getting sort of --

ZELENY: And this department was created after 9/11, as we all remember. This was a new department of this government that was created to stop terror threats. So it encompasses a lot of things, not just the border. That's something to keep in mind as the president looks for someone or reshapes it. But that is the mission of this department.

KING: And I think that's what you're going to hear out of the Congress as they start to process all of this as it plays out.

Up next, a Wednesday deadline the president promises to miss. Why Democrats might not see the president's tax returns for a very, very long time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:35] KING: In the fight over the president's tax returns Wednesday is on a collision course with never. Wednesday, as in two days from now, is the deadline House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal gave the IRS. He demanded six years' worth of the president's business and personal tax returns. But we don't need to wait until Wednesday to know this one's heading to court. The president's lawyer and his acting chief of staff label it a reckless Democratic political demand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY SEKULOW, LAWYER FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But this idea that you can use the IRS as a political weapon, which is what's happening here, is incorrect both as a matter of statutory law and constitutionally. We should not be in a situation where individuals -- individual private tax returns are used for political purposes. As you just said, George, what stops another party from doing the same thing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believe Democrats will never see the president's tax returns?

MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Oh, no, never, nor should they. Keep in mind that that's an issue that was already litigated during the election. Voters knew the president could have given his tax returns, they knew that he didn't, and they elected him anyway, which, of course, is what drives the Democrats crazy. But they know they're not going to get this. They just want the attention on the issue because they don't want to talk to us about policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: CNN's Lauren Fox, who's been covering this issue, joins our conversation.

An interesting political argument from Mulvaney saying, look, the president ran an election on this. The Democrats said all previous presidents have released their taxes since Richard Nixon. The president won, go away. That's an interesting political argument.

Legally, Chairman Neal is ready to go to court, right? I assume he's going to wait till Wednesday. He knows a no is coming and he's going to have to go to court.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, that's right. And we can expect a couple more letters probably before they actually move forward with going to court. And that's partially just because they want to set up a very clear, legal case here.

But Richard Neal's been very careful about how he's sort of been setting this case up. For months, liberals on the committee have been trying to force him to make this request. Some of them even complained that it was not coming soon enough.

Of course, Richard Neal knew, in the back of his mind this entire time that he would be going to court and therefore wanted to move forward very judiciously.

KING: And so we -- let's -- here's the Democratic argument. This is Ro Khanna, a Democratic member -- they're making this argument, look, Richard Nixon -- ever since Richard Nixon, presidents released their taxes. We want the Mueller report. We live in the digital age. Let's have transparency. The question is, can they sell it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, we should spend political capital because it's about transparency. Look, our party is just calling for two very simple things. We want him to release his taxes, like ever president has going back to President Reagan, and we want the Mueller report to become public. This is a call for basic transparency, and I think most Americans will realize that that's fair.

[12:30:05] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM": Which, if the Democrats are going to go to the mat on one of them.