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Inside Politics

Buttigieg, Pence Split Over Faith and Politics; How Faith is Playing in the 2020 Democratic Field; Dem Candidate Plans to Campaign With A Hologram; Trump Considers Sending Illegal Immigrants to Sanctuary Cities; House Democrats Mark 100 Days in Power. Aired 12:30- 1p ET

Aired April 12, 2019 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:00] MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I've known Mayor Pete for many years, we've worked very closely together when I was governor, and I considered him a friend. And he knows I don't have a problem with him. I don't believe in discrimination against anybody. I treat everybody the way that I want to be treated and --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you agree with him that it is God who made him gay?

PENCE: The truth of the matter is that all of us have our own religious convictions. Pete has his convictions, I have mine. And one of the beautiful things about America is that we have the freedom of religion.

BASH: He argues that your quarrel is with him as a gay man and that he says --

PENCE: Yes.

BASH: -- I was born this way and this is the way God made me. That's just not your belief?

PENCE: Well, I think Pete's quarrel is with the First Amendment.

BASH: How so?

PENCE: All of us have in the country have the right to our religious beliefs. I'm a Bible-believing Christian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I know you --

Well, the AP actually, Dana --

BASH: -- have been doing some reporting on it.

ELANA SCHOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Yes, my colleagues including one who has a long history in Indiana dug into their relationship and found that in fact, the vice president has a point here and that he and Buttigieg did work pretty closely together and pretty well together. And not only that but at the core of this whole debate is a religious freedom law, quote, unquote religious freedom law that was harshly criticized as being unfair to the LBGTQ community. But Pence, you know, he wasn't really pressured personally by Buttigieg to view it, and Buttigieg acknowledges in his book that he passed up the chance to look the vice president in the eye and say this is wrong.

So, it's a good moment for Buttigieg to claim the spotlight by picking this fight with Pence as he mentioned punching up never hurts when you're a wonderkin, right? But the record shows that they were actually far closer than this animosity seems to suggest.

BASH: Yes. The vice president made it pretty clear in what he was saying there that he sees what's going on here. It's not his first rodeo, and that the mayor is using the vice president as a political foil.

That's continuing. The mayor was on the Ellen show today and he talked more about this. Let's listen.

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MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), LAUNCHED PRESIDENTIAL EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE: I'm not critical of his faith, I'm critical of bad policies. I don't have a problem with religion, I'm religious, too. I have a problem with religion being used as a justification to harm people, and especially in the LBGTQ community.

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SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: I find -- exactly. I find a really interesting development that we're starting to see in the Democratic presidential field is the role of faith, and how open and willing that a lot of these Democratic candidates are willing to talk about this. Obviously, Mayor Buttigieg is the latest example of that, probably the most prominent example because of the back and forth with the president. But Kirsten Gillibrand at the town hall earlier this week was very adamant and very detailed about the fact that she attends two bible studies on Capitol Hill every week.

BASH: You know what, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I want to get you on the other side of this, but we have actually sound of that and other candidates making your exact point. Let's listen to that and talk on the other side.

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SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of the religion of Jesus is to hate the religion of the slave master. I stand before you today, clear-eyed about the fight ahead and what has to be done. With faith in God, with fidelity to the country and with the fighting spirit I got from my mother --

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As one faith leader reminded me this week, to pursue the good we must believe that good will prevail. I do believe it and so do you. So let's join together as one nation indivisible, under God and pursue the good.

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My family history is steeped in the black church, from family members who were ministers and deacons and choir directors to my momma who taught Sunday school in a small black church in New Jersey. We have come this far by faith.

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KIM: It's such a fascinating development because we -- for so long we've kind of assumed -- associated the Republican Party as the party that's kind of outspoken particularly about their Christian faith but you do see so many of these Democratic candidates using their faith to argue for Democratic and progressive policies. Cory Booker who we just saw on the clip also told us that the Bible speaks to the urgencies of dealing with poverty, urgencies of welcoming the stranger, clearly using that or making that religious case for these policies

BASH: Why do you think that is?

MICHAEL SHEAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, look --

BASH: In 15 seconds.

SHEAR: -- it's partly -- probably because of the man that's in the Oval Office, right? Who is probably on one level the least religious, you know. He doesn't sort of exude that, he doesn't -- I mean, you know, now that his policies have been very supportive of some kind of evangelical community and what have you, but I think there is an attempt by the Democrats to contrast to finally say, look, we can actually seize this because the guy in the Oval Office has not got a great track record in that.

[12:35:05] BASH: Absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for that. We have a lot more to talk about.

And up next, a 2020 presidential candidate has a plan with a hologram.

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BASH: Topping our political radar on this Friday, the former White House aide who mocked a dying John McCain has a new job. Kelly Sadler starts Monday at the pro-Trump super PAC America Trump Action. Sadler joins that group's communications shop and will hold a job similar to the one she held in the White House. Sadler is best remembered for an ugly episode during the CIA Director Gina Haspel's nomination where she dismissed McCain's opposition saying his vote didn't matter because McCain was, quote, dying anyway.

[12:40:11] 2020 Democratic presidential candidates are hitting the trail today focusing on early voting states. Senator Elizabeth Warren is in New Hampshire, Beto O'Rourke is in South Carolina, Bernie Sanders is in Wisconsin, and former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper is in Iowa along with Washington Governor Jay Inslee and Senator Amy Klobuchar.

And this is what presidential campaigning may look like in 2020, at least according to Andrew Yang, holograms. The Democratic candidate says he wants to use technology to reach multiple audiences in battleground states at the same time. The candidate says the technology will use tracks that can beam in a three-dimensional replica of the candidate and even suggest that he could beam in and take questions live. Oh, and Yang debuted what this could all look like on TMZ Live, and he did it by showing a hologram of himself rapping alongside a hologram of Tupac.

You've got to watch it.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is you sort of performing with a Tupac hologram, a very famous Tupac hologram, performing "America's Most Wanted." What -- can you explain -- I've been trying -- I was asking the producers, what's the plan here?

ANDREW YANG, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, if you look closely at that footage you'll see that's actually not me performing with hologram Tupac. That's a hologram of me.

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BASH: I mean, what are they going to think of next? I will say that I was almost a hologram in 2008. Jessica Yellin was covering Obama, I was covering McCain. Her hologram worked, mine didn't, so.

SCHOR: Well, all I have to say about this is there's no better place to roll it out than Vegas where the Strip is full of these mobile billboards that are already projecting all kinds of crazy video. I mean, honestly, it's pretty savvy to choose Vegas in an early voting state to try this out. I mean, nothing is too weird for Vegas, right?

BASH: Maybe that's how you can get to every place you need to be at once on Capitol Hill.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On Capitol Hill.

BASH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: But the problem is Manu doesn't -- Manu Raju, our colleague does not have a hologram and still manages.

BASH: And he actually (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: My big question about the --

BASH: But you don't think he has a hologram?

MATTINGLY: That's true, maybe he does. My big question about the Yang video and I missed it on TMZ, is he Snoop? Is he Snoop in "America's Most Wanted" in that? Was that he was trying to do?

BASH: I think he's just trying to be himself.

MATTINGLY: Shear, was he Snoop?

SHEAR: Don't ask me.

BASH: But this is a whole new world and he's trying to be Andrew Yang.

MATTINGLY: Maybe (INAUDIBLE).

BASH: There you go. All right.

MATTINGLY: Is that the segue, the universal --

BASH: There you go. That was -- I'm pretty dorky. That was as dorky as it gets and I'm impressed by that.

MATTINGLY: Thanks.

BASH: And a programming note, speaking of Andrew Yang, CNN will have two presidential town halls on Sunday night, 7 p.m. Eastern. I will moderate a town hall with author Marianne Williamson. And at 8 p.m., Ana Cabrera will discuss -- or moderate a discussion rather with entrepreneur Andrew Yang. That's Sunday night right here on CNN.

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[12:47:26] BASH: Just when you thought it couldn't get weirder, here we go. We are going to return to the top story of the hour and that is, the White House this morning saying the idea to dump migrants in sanctuary cities was suggested, considered, and quickly rejected. Here's what the White House said then. This is a non-story, except I guess they forgot to tell the president of the United States because he has his phone. He's tweeting, and look at what he just said moments ago.

He said the following. "Due to the fact that Democrats are unwilling to change our very dangerous and immigration laws, we are indeed as reported giving strong considerations to placing legal -- excuse me, illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities. Only the radical left always seems to have open borders, open arms policy so this should make them very happy."

It's hard to be speechless in the Trump era but this is remarkable. He is doubling, tripling down. He is taking the criticism that he is getting and owning it, and never mind making the people who work for him even more uncomfortable and even more -- first of all, looking like they don't know what they're doing and then they're not matching what he's doing. But more importantly, the notion that he is saying no, I actually am considering this, making this so incredibly political, and so in the face of anything that is remotely humanitarian is remarkable.

SHEAR: The White House officials that I talked to last night at 11:00 at night insisted that this was not going anywhere, insisted that the legal advice they had been given the second time, not to mention the first time that it had come up had driven a stake through this thing. And so, you know, the idea -- I mean, look, the -- what the president -- what appeals to the president I'm certain about this is not even just the substance of the policy but the political retribution that he clearly, you know, sort of seems gleeful about taking, and that's what appeals to him. And whether this will ever happen I think is unlikely but --

BASH: So as you're talking and as we're digesting this on my television, I'm actually thinking about the fact that in some ways, although the content of what he's saying is so outrageous, this is classic Trump. To be outrageous. To be the most outrageous he can possibly be in order to try to find something, some middle ground that may be more towards his liking but certainly less outrageous than this idea of taking migrants and dumping them in sanctuary cities.

MATTINGLY: Yes. To some degree, we've seen it before as kind of a negotiating tactic.

[12:50:00] I think it's probably far more likely that he's just trolling everybody and I think that's always something to remember when he says stuff like this is that he's trolling you. And I think to Shear's point, the important thing to remember here is lawyers at the agencies that are relevant to this matter made very clear this is not something they want to do, this is not something they should do, this is not something they can do.

If the president wants to move forward with it, and I'm a little bit skeptical that he actually does, he's either facing large-scale resignations or maybe bigger problems there. And again, that's if you're taking it from a purely reality basis.

BASH: And just the -- to be completely pollyannaish, this is something I was trying to get at with the vice president yesterday at the border. This is a real problem that needs a solution, and when you're saying outrageous things about wanting to take people and dump them in sanctuary cities instead of saying, you know what, guys, come over to the White House, let's roll up their sleeves -- our sleeves and let's fix this. It's just -- it's irresponsible, and it's been irresponsible on both sides but it's on him right now.

SCHOR: And I'll tell you what this makes me think now. This is a grand opening of the door for these 2020 Democratic presidential candidates to start talking about this issue in a serious and substantive in-depth way. We've seen them take shots at the president to be sure, but Julian Castro is the only candidate in the field right that has his own independent immigration plan, and you got to think that that changes now because of the way Trump is handling this.

BASH: And he was talking about this last night. He was here on CNN, he had a town hall and he certainly took advantage of it.

KIM: And just put it in the context of what has also happened in San Francisco when it comes to immigration and sanctuary city policies. Obviously, we know San Francisco is where Nancy Pelosi the House speaker is, but it was also really where four years ago the debate -- this really emotional contentious debate over sanctuary cities flared up because of the murder of Kate Steinle in July of 2015. So that -- this issue has been just so sensitive and obviously the president just really inflamed it so much more.

BASH: Yes. And again, catnip for the base certainly not the way to actually find a governing solution at -- in a place where you saw and I saw this week firsthand needs a solution. You're talking about children who are being abused, and it's pretty horrible.

OK, everybody standby as we, again, digest the fact that the president is actually considering this or at least he says he is.

Up next, a report card on House Democrats because it's their 100th day in power.

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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: Oh I'm very proud of this list of accomplishments, and we do intend that -- we are not going as slow as the slowest ship.

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[12:57:00] BASH: House Democrats are celebrating 100 days in power today, marking the milestone by boasting about their wins over Republicans since reclaiming the majority in the midterms.

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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): We started with a reckless 35-day government shutdown. We were able to end that successfully.

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): We have H.R.1 waiting at the door of the Senate. We've already passed the Paycheck Fairness Act.

JEFFRIES: We authentically represent the gorgeous mosaic of the American people.

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BASH: That mosaic, the most diverse Congress ever with the most women ever is definitely noteworthy in its achievements, but some of the new members of that mosaic are exposing maybe even causing major rifts within the party, and a lot of high-profile bills they passed are simply DOA in the Senate.

Phil Mattingly and Seung Min Kim are congressional aficionados (INAUDIBLE) for me to say. I say that like you say Buttigieg.

KIM: People call us nerds.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

KIM: You know, that's fine.

BASH: It's OK. I -- listen, to me, that's a huge compliment. Are here to assess the first 100 days.

OK, let's talk about accomplishments on the House side.

KIM: So I think they've ticked through as the Democratic leaders hinted at a lot of their major accomplishments through the 100 days. We're talking about H.R.1, this big legislation meant to combat corruption, kind of their own message to draining the swamp. I thought the -- being able to passed gun background checks was really noteworthy. We know even just less than a decade ago the issue of guns had really divided the Democratic Party but I think the party is mostly unified now on the need for universal background checks so I thought that was a pretty big accomplishment on their part.

MATTINGLY: Yes. And I think you've seen the move about the Violence Against Women Act and expanded version of that they were able to get through this Paycheck Fairness Act as well. There are a lot of the things that they campaigned on, H.R.1 being kind of the primary and one of them that were planks of their campaign that they've been able to accomplish.

Now, you make the key point, Republicans control the Senate, that makes things a little bit difficult. Mitch McConnell made very clear they're all dead on arrival over there but that's kind of where their accomplishments are.

BASH: And the other big thing they campaigned on was being a check on the White House.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BASH: What do we see there?

MATTINGLY: Look, the oversight is real. We see it in contentious hearings every single day, we see it in letters to the White House, to various agencies. We've seen it in subpoenas.

That is real. That is actual, and more than any legislation that they've have done up to this point I think that's probably the most effective thing they can point to.

BASH: Yes. And you talk about Yemen, that War Powers Resolution, voting to block the emergency wall, requesting the tax returns, at least six years, and so on and so forth. But they have had some legislative misses and political ones, too.

KIM: Exactly. A lot of growing pains as the Democrats candidly acknowledged whether it's putting together even a simple majority on passing their own budget which we saw that they failed to do earlier this week. A lot of internal infighting over some comments made by some of their more prominent freshman members. And, you know, Republicans who worked in the governing majority for the last several years are saying to them, you know, like we told you so. We told you this was not that easy and Mitch McConnell when he was speaking with reporters yesterday had a little bit of schadenfreude when he said sounds to me like they've got their own freedom caucus over on the House Democratic side.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and it's a preview of what's to come both on climate, on healthcare. There are bigger internal fights to happen. Keep an eye on them.

BASH: Thank you both. I know you both will be like a hawk.

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