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Democrat Rivals Target Senator Bernie Sanders Ahead Of Nevada Caucuses; Senator Bernie Sanders' Campaign Taps "Raw Power" Of Vast Volunteer Base; Five Days Remain Until Nevada Caucuses; 2020 Democrats Zero In On Michael Bloomberg; CNN: Federal Prosecutors Weigh New Charges For Giuliani Associates. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 17, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome back to a Special President's Day Edition of INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Dana Bash. John King is off today. Michael Bloomberg still using his billions to flood the air wave is now out w with an ad to combat the blowback over stop and frisk. But his 2020 rivals aren't letting up on the issue as they see a big vulnerability there.

And as Roger Stone awaits his new sentence new CNN reporting that federal prosecutors are considering additional charges against associates of President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. And long lines in Nevada for early voting. And long days for Presidential Candidates.

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PETE BUTTIGIEG (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have campaigned so many places I can't see straight. They actually put - they put a little sticker on the table by the door when I come out that says what city I am in just in case I can't keep track anymore.

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BASH: We begin this hour with Democratic Presidential Primary Candidates campaigns, and maybe those who cover them perhaps a little bit weary but pushing forward because we are just getting started, everybody.

The Nevada Caucuses are a mere five days away. Early voting is under way. And the Nevada Democratic Party says more than 18,000 people voted on Saturday alone. Senator Bernie Sanders has the largest field operation in the state. He's also considered the early front-runner in the primary so far. Many of his rivals are taking aim at him.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If his supporters are attacking Culinary Union Members, who is responsible for that?

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If any of my supporters did that, I would disown them. Flat disown them.

BUTTIGIEG: Senator Sanders's plan, by definition, abolishes private plans like what the culinary workers across Nevada and America. Mine does not.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the only one on the debate stage when asked do you have a problem with a socialist leading the Democratic ticket, and I said yes. That is despite the fact that Bernie and I are friends. We came in together.

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BASH: CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins me now live from Reno, Nevada, where Pete Buttigieg and Joe Biden have events that are set to start in the next hour. Now Jeff, you are in a state where 36 delegates are at stake in Saturday's Caucuses. What are you seeing and hearing from your sources?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana there is no question that Nevada is so key to so many of these candidates. Joe Biden is trying to get back some momentum and some confidence, if you will. He will be holding a rally here in Reno in the next hour as you said.

But Pete Buttigieg, who is holding a Veteran's Town Hall event in a short time he is trying to essentially one up Bernie Sanders. We've seen this back and forth from Iowa to New Hampshire. So Pete Buttigieg is trying to make that sale. He is doing more events here Dana than any other candidate, often more than most candidates combined.

He will be racing around, three events here in Nevada. Bernie Sanders not in Nevada today. He is looking ahead to Super Tuesday. He's in California going up to Washington as well. So that is a sign of confidence, perhaps.

Dana, we are going to see something that has been at the forefront of this Democratic Primary so far, the health care debate. That is going to be litigated here in Nevada unlike any other place because of Medicare for all.

As you heard all of the candidates, they are going after Bernie Sanders, going after his support for Medicare for all. The largest union here is not supportive of that, of course. There has been a fascinating back and forth.

So at the debate here on Wednesday that is going to be certainly front and center. Bernie Sanders has had an operation here a long time. He did very well here four years ago. They are trying to build on that. But count on the potential for some surprises here as well.

Joe Biden campaigning aggressively and he know that he needs to get a bounce back in his step here. So a lot could happen in five days particularly with the debate here on Friday. And just to complicate it all, President Trump also coming here to Nevada to spend most of the week. Dana. BASH: As he is want to do before there is a big caucus or primary. Thank you so much Jeff I appreciate that great reporting. Here with me to share their reporting and their insights Olivia Knox with SiriusXM Catharine Lucey, with "The Wall Street Journal" Josh Jamerson also with "The Journal" and CNN's Ryan Nobles.

Ryan, you have an excellent piece as always on - out today and I just talks about the juggernaut that is the Sanders Campaign and specifically the raw power of the vast volunteer network. Here's what you say in this piece based on your reporting.

You can't touch the raw power of the largest field staff and volunteer base. That's secret sauce. You know I always talk about the innovative stuff. But actually the way we went over these other campaigns is that we are able to knock on those doors. That's a quote from somebody. Go ahead.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think what the Sanders Campaign has been able to do perhaps better than any other campaign is leverage both paid staff with reliable volunteers, right.

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NOBLES: You can get somebody to sign up on a website and say they are going to volunteer for your campaign but to actually turn that into tangible resources on the ground. You know they are very proud of the fact that they have volunteers who don't get paid a dime that will knock 100, 200 doors, make phone calls when they are not working to try and get people out to the polls.

And it says something if you somebody who isn't getting paid who is just invested in this on a kind of a personal level who you know also, you connect with someone on a human level, they tell you I am supporting Bernie Sanders for this reason. That often compels people to get behind the movement.

That's something that Sanders has been building for a long time. This was built in 2016. I think we are finally seeing it come to fruition during this primary cycle.

BASH: Oliver, you covered Bernie Sanders as a Vermont native, or grew up with him, really.

OLIVIER KNOX, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, SIRIUSXM: Yes, that's right. I mean, I've said repeatedly on this show, he is the most organized politician I have ever covered. He has the sort of movement appeal. All of his fund-raisers are come build this thing with me. Not give me money, not support me. It is all about on us proposition.

I would like to know how the Sanders Campaign for all of its organization explains the Iowa results. Because going into Iowa we were all saying this right he never left Iowa. He built this machine in 2016 his campaign is promising to bring in tens of thousands of new voters.

Ultimately didn't really see that happen in Iowa. One of the questions I have - not just counting his strengths at all is how they looked at it this? And how they retooled parts of their campaign after the caucuses?

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I think there is a couple of things with Iowa specifically that you have to look at with the turnout. One is that the state has trended a bit more Republican since 2016. So there is a question about just how many voters are out there to capture?

Also you had a lot of undecided voters going into it. That could have affected it. I also think to Ryan's point. One of the things that's really interesting from '16 to '20 is that they have continued to build this. It has gotten bigger and they have tried to do more targeting of specific groups, right?

So one of the things I think that the Sanders folks would point to in Iowa is their effort to Latino voters and they did see successes there and they are looking to replicate that in Nevada.

JOSH JAMERSON, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: One about Nevada too is that this is the first state where we don't really have the same type of expectations that we had in Iowa.

We knew Pete had a big investment in New Hampshire it was going to be a big night for Sanders. Nevada as always kind of been in this kind of up in the air state and on the one hand it is a Caucus state. So it should lend itself to be a pickup opportunity for Sanders or someone like Warren who has like a robust liberal base.

But on the other hand in 2016 went for a more traditional candidate in Hillary Clinton. So it is one of those - it is the first state where I think we are going to have a result everyone is surprised by.

BASH: It is such a good point. It is also the first state where candidates who did very well in the first two very white states are trying to prove that they can do well in more diverse states. Here's what Pete Buttigieg on that note said to me yesterday on "State of the Union".

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BUTTIEGIEG: As we come to more racially diverse states like here in Nevada and in South Carolina, many of the voters of color that I am talking to are focused in particular on one thing, defeating Donald Trump.

This is a process of earnings trust with voters who have every reason to be skeptical, who have often felt taken for granted by the Democratic Party. I am not going to take any vote for granted. Just as I am not going to leave any vote on the table.

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BASH: So this is one of the things we have been talking about, asking about, now we are actually going to see the answers. First in Nevada but more explicitly in South Carolina with different voting bases. NOBLES: And I think it is actually playing into Bernie Sander's hand, right? I mean, his biggest competition in this space has been Joe Biden from the very beginning. And as Biden fails and is replaced with candidates like Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg, and then ultimately Michael Bloomberg.

Sanders had never enjoyed a ton of support in the black community in particular, but it is better than Pete Buttigieg's and is better than Amy Klobuchar's. And the fact that Sanders has spent the last four years kind of understanding that vulnerability in his support and making inroads in these communities using and leaning on folks like Senator Nina Turner who is one of his campaign Co-Chairs really reaching out to the Latino Community it is starting to pay dividends.

And it could be paying dividends at the right time because if black voters feel in particular that Joe Biden isn't going to take them all the way to the nomination they're going to start looking for alternatives. And the Sanders campaign feels they're in the best position for that space.

BASH: Yes, and on that we talked about this with Pete Buttigieg yesterday. You know, in historical terms, winning begets winning. When the later states see that people are winning earlier they say okay, I can see that guy is a winner or winning.

JAMERSON: And of the people who have arguably one state so far Bernie Sanders has been spent the most time of the last four years trying to core the black votes. Specifically with the Younger African-American votes--

LUCEY: And he had success there.

JAMERSON: --and he has

LUCEY: Whereas you see with Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar they are really still introducing themselves in these states. You see this in their ads, in their messages they are really starting from a much farther back.

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BASH: Do you know who not introducing himself? Joe Biden. Listen to what he is saying on the trial about this.

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JOE BIDEN: This is a chance for African-Americans in the United States to make history again in a way we haven't made before. The power to determine who the next President of the United States is going to be is in your hands. It means you are going to have a great deal of influence no matter who you pick.

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KNOX: I want to go back to Josh's quick point that is really important, which is the generational divide. It has been really telling throughout this early primary season where you see Biden doing better with older African-American voters and then Sanders who, I agree with Ryan, Sanders has had the best postmortem of any campaign.

In the 2016 the analysis of how they lost in 2016 has really clearly paid dividends. Biden, I think we all know that Biden is in trouble, that he has been losing some support and that he needs to - he had a really strong showing in both Nevada and South Carolina to carry this through.

BASH: Okay, everybody standby we have a whole lot more to talk about. Before that, a quick CNN programming note. This week on CNN, five town halls, Sanders, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden and Warren will all be live in Las Vegas ahead of the next critical vote there. Watch three tomorrow night starting at 8:00 pm eastern and two more on Thursday starting at 8:00 as well right here on CNN.

And if you have a question about the 2020 Race for any one at Inside Politics at this table right now tweet us using the #insidepolitics. We may answer your question at the end of the show. But up next things are getting contentious between Bernie Sanders and Michael Bloomberg who isn't on any ballot between now and Super Tuesday on March 3rd. Stay with us.

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BASH: Michael Bloomberg's campaign is debuting two new ads today intended to combat his opponents' criticism of him on his history of racial justice. A slew of controversies over Bloomberg's stop and frisk policy while he was New York Mayor and a re-serviced remark from 2008 that appeared to blame low income communities for the housing crisis. Here is the message Bloomberg is sending today.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Bloomberg created the young men's initiative to help keep young men and young women from entering the criminal justice system.

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The wealth gap is inextricably linked to the racial inequalities of the past. And I am determined to make breaking that link a centerpiece of my Presidency.

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BASH: And while the Former New York Mayor is not on the Nevada ballot this weekend he is on the minds of several 2020 candidates.

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SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think we have a better chance of beating Donald Trump by putting up a billionaire against him.

BIDEN: $60 billion can buy you a lot of advertising, but it can't erase your record. There is a lot to talk about Michael Bloomberg.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The simple truth is that Mayor Bloomberg, with all his money, will not create the kind of excitement and energy we need to have the voter turnout we must have to defeat Donald Trump.

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BASH: And Karoun Demirjian is with us now from "The Washington Post" nice to see you.

KAROUN DEMIRJIAN, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Good to see you, too Dana.

BASH: So let's talk about this. Michael Bloomberg, as kind of the big person kind of like hanging over - big figurative person hanging over the campaign even though he is not actually competing until the big Super Tuesday primaries. What do you make of this?

KNOX: What I make of it is a lot of moderates hitting on him might regret not training their fire on Bernie may be two or three month ago. I mean, this is one of the interesting dynamics as how little Bernie has been attacked actually by his rivals of the candidacy.

Bloomberg has obviously built up an enormous advantage. He is kind of betting that Democratic voters are willing to forgive him ultimately for some of the transgressions in the past. We have seen it before. We've seen Klobuchar be attacked for her prosecutorial record. We've seen Joe Biden attacked for the crime bill. Bernie is taking a different kind of attack which is you know while he praised the Soviet Union, et cetera, et cetera.

I think Bloomberg now has correctly identified this as something that could drive a real wedge between him and Democratic voters. Stop and frisk generally viewed as abominable by Democratic primary voters.

He is wrong that the '07, '08 crisis was because people were lending money to minorities. It is not true. He does have to do one of a heck of sketch.

DEMIRJIAN: This is him basically responding to what he has to respond to right now. It is interesting that this is all taking place before he is actually formally being in the contest of any of the states in which he is actually on the ballot. But it does give you - it indicates quite how much of a force he is going to be to reckon with the point that which he does enter and some of those states have started early voting too.

So I shouldn't say completely out of the ring. He is having to play clean up with his record before he actually gets officially into the mix. I think that Bloomberg is banking on the idea that he is kind of like larger than life figure.

In a way the way the fact that everybody is talking about him now and getting into the details of his record it is kind of what he wanted. He is kind the scary figure looming, that's coming over the other candidates who they have to deal with even before they are ready.

And if you end up without a clear front-runner from the first primary states, if Bernie Sanders doesn't end up leading the pack every single time then Bloomberg really could mess with thing. But to Oliver's point if you do actually end up with a little bit of a may lay among the moderates and then Bloomberg kind of just joining that on top of it, then it is little bit confusing to see what his road ahead is because then there will be a clear other politically other and other person as well.

LUCEY: You know I think Bloomberg does have some advantages as he tries to sort of reframe the narrative both obviously with how much money he can spend in terms of advertising, in terms of getting this out, but also the relationship that he has and he has built since he was Mayor of New York.

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LUCEY: He has any number of endorsements of lawyers of mayors across the country of people who are vouching for him on these topics. So that is something that they're really trying to push I think in this space.

BASH: So Olivia, you talked about the fact that people who are not Michael Bloomberg are not attacking Bernie Sanders at their peril.

KNOX: Or haven't.

BASH: Haven't done it earlier.

KNOX: --particularly aren't now.

BASH: Okay, right so to that point, Michael Bloomberg - as far as we can tell hasn't spent money on this. He tweeted out a video really tweaking, maybe even attacking the so-called Bernie Bros, people who go after other candidate supporters on the internet you a part of it playing there.

And this is a sore spot among a lot of candidates and their supporters. I will take you that I talked to a very Pramila Jayapal who is very staunch supporter of Bernie Sanders. She is actually on the campaign trail with him today. And here is in part which she said to be about this.

Bernie is consistently and recently multiple times said he doesn't want these kinds of people in the movement but to focus on these folks really erases women and people of color and the tens of thousands who literally bring incredible energy everywhere they go. I have seen in Iowa, New Hampshire, this past weekend in California, and now Nevada. So they are pushing back on this?

JAMERSON: Totally. It is a sore spot for him. One thing that we have seen though is that while Bernie Sanders says that he likes to run a positive campaign. Some of his aides and allies don't always follow that. And then people, voters will have to determine what is actually the real message of the campaign, what the candidate is saying himself or what the people who are out there supporting and campaign for him are out there saying.

And then just to come back to Bloomberg real quick, one thing I will say is that I think we have seen so far in this race the one thing that can trickle down to the Democratic base is scrutiny. And when he gets on that debate stage at some point it is going to be all arrows at him. And if that scrutiny goes on and trickles down that could be something that blow back on him on Super Tuesday states.

BASH: You know I'm glad you brought it back at Bloomberg. But first of all Amy Klobuchar told me here on CNN yesterday that she wants him on the debate stage which is different than a lot the other candidates for that reason.

Speaking of what Bloomberg is doing, there was a really interesting story in the Philadelphia inquirer, Pennsylvania, which is not voting for a while in the primary process which caught our eye. This is what it says.

I am not on Facebook, and it comes up on my Facebook feed. This is talking about Bloomberg. I am driving to work, I am listening to the radio I hear him on radio. It is almost as if the only candidate currently running in Pennsylvania - this is a Chairman of the Montgomery County Democratic Committee there. I mean that's really interesting.

LUCEY: He has the resources to do it.

BASH: He has the resources and he is using it and he is doing it. So he is getting out ahead and he is going wide and he going deep.

LUCEY: And while they are still largely in South Carolina and Nevada, he is all over the map. We have seen the scale of the hiring that he is doing. The number of people he brought in, the amount is he paying them. The number of states he has fanned out into.

And so whether or not - nothing has ever really been done like this. It is hard to game out how it is going to play out but the sort of the vast operation he has been able to seemingly instantaneously put in place is sort of unprecedented.

DEMIRJIAN: And it is interesting because you know as you move into the Super Tuesday states the candidates who have been able to counter-act some of the - you know big blanket sort of advertising strategies with the direct person to person type of politics that works this early states.

You can't do that when you are trying to compete against the big slate that is there is on Super Tuesday. And so as Catherine was saying, other people have had to kind of meet out what their funding is going to be and have a strategy that goes stepwise and make sure that they have the last state behind them as they propel into the next one.

And some like Bernie are getting a little bit you know going further out into the Super Tuesday states. Warren has a campaign operation on the round too. But nobody has been as solely focused on that and as deep pocketed as Bloomberg. BASH: All right, everybody standby. Up next we're going to talk about remarkable acknowledgment from the Trump Administration about how the Attorney General sees his job. Stay with us.

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BASH: New CNN reporting today on federal prosecutors inching closer, perhaps, to Rudy Giuliani. CNN's Kara Scannell is in New York. Kara, you have learned that the Southern District of New York is now considering new charges. So tell us what they are and against whom?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: That's right Dana, so sources tell me and my colleague Eric Holder in that prosecutors are considering new charges against Giuliani associates in connection with a half a million dollar payment that Giuliani received.

So the sources tell us that they are considering charges against Lev Parnas and at least one business partner for misleading potential investors in the company that paid Giuliani. That company was co- founded by Parnas and is called "Fraud Guarantee".

So prosecutors are scrutinizing the marketing tactics that were used to sell this investment. And specifically they are looking at whether investors were duped about the value of the company and how they intended to use the proceeds.

And over the past several weeks and months prosecutors and agents with the FBI have interviewed multiple investors and through subpoenas have obtained text messages and other documents all relating to this marketing effort.

Now, that scrutiny of "Fraud Guarantee" does bring this investigation closer to Giuliani, though it does raise questions as well as what role, if any, he had in the marketing of this company.