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Trump Lashes Out At Governors For Complaining About Supplies; Harvard Study: U.S. Must Triple Testing To Safely Reopen; Governors Weigh Push To Reopen Against Public Health Concerns Interview With Gov. Gina Raimondo (D-RI); Trump Calls For Unity As He Attacks Democratic Governors; Democrats Close Ranks Behind Biden, Shift Focus To November. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired April 19, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:33]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST (voice-over): The push to restart the economy even as coronavirus cases climb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not going to be a simple up and down curve. This is going to be almost like a roller coaster that may go on for a year or two.

KING: Plus, the president and the consistency question.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When somebody is the president of the United States, the authority is total. And that's the way it's got to be.

It's going to be up for the governors.

KING: And as protests mount -- never mind that promise to support the governors.

TRUMP: I think elements of what they've done is too much. I mean, it's just too much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your Sunday.

We're at a crossroads moment in the coronavirus pandemic, even as the numbers continue their deadly climb. New York is the epicenter here in the United States and the governor there suggests it is finally heading down the case curve.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): If you look at the past three days, you could argue that we are past the plateau and we're starting to descend, which would be very good news. Again, it's only three days, but that's what the numbers would start to suggest. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Out of isolation and back to work are more and more part of the global conversation. Some shops in Italy back in business and there are modest steps in the United States. One test Saturday, you see the picture there, Jacksonville, Florida. The beaches reopened, not everyone following guidelines to keep a safe distance.

It's a critical and dangerous moment, critical because of the economic pain to countries and people is palpable, dangerous because we know many of those with no choice but to work during this pandemic are getting sick.

For example, coronavirus outbreaks now in no fewer than ten meat and poultry processing plants in six of the United States. North Dakota is now a new example. Its cases spiking because of workers at a wind turbine plant tested positive.

So, proceed but with acute caution is how the White House explains its gradual reopening plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: The predominant and completely driving element that we put into this was the safety and the health of the American public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president, though, is in much more of a hurry after promising to support governors as they make very tough state by state calls. He says many now are complaining too much about testing shortages.

As protests against stay-at-home orders spread, the president is encouraging them in a series of tweets using the word "liberate." He dismisses the idea he is stoking dissent or breaking that promise to governors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Some of them are being unreasonable, I really believe that. They're being unreasonable. I just think that some of the governors have gotten carried away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House.

Kaitlan, it has been fascinating to watch the back-and-forth over who is in charge, who calls the shots and the president is just angry that things are not going to go as fast as he would like.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and he doesn't like the criticism that he got of his phases that he rolled out for reopening the country, and a lot of the president's criticism is focused on these governors instead many who have not followed suit on those phases right away. They say they still need to increase testing before they can go there and now we're seeing this clash play out between the president and governors.

And the question is, is that going to come to a head over the next few weeks as the White House is hoping a lot of the states will get into these phases that they presented for reopening the economy as a lot of the governors are saying they're not there on testing.

Now, the president said yesterday that it's mostly Democratic governors who have been complaining but, John, we know that several Republicans have voiced concerns if they're at the level of testing that they need so far. That includes Ohio's governor and Maryland's Republican governor as well who have said they need federal assistance as they're moving forward with this.

Now, the number one clash the president has had is with the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, of course, who has said they need federal assistance if New York is going to be able to fully reopen and the president has been downplaying those concerns. Even though, we should note, he's not even just hearing them from governors. He's hearing them from senators as well, including business executives who the president was on a call with last week.

And so, the question really is what's going to happen going forward, because the questions they're having over testing comes as the president and also feuding with these governors who he's telling them that he believes their measures are too restrictive, even though he says they should be the ones calling the shots on when their states are reopening.

[08:05:10]

KING: And, Kaitlan, one of the president bristles at is the suggestion that, yes, he did impose the restrictions on travel from China, but he spent the end of January and most of February not doing enough, not ramping up the testing, not having more serious conversations about mitigation. He bristles at the suggestions, as in his own words were 15 cases will soon be down to zero, it's not going to be a pandemic. His own words speak for.

But now, "The Washington Post" has a story the U.S. sent millions of face masks to China earlier this year, ignoring pandemic warning signs, U.S. manufactures shipping these masks with the administration's blessing. That is another, you would say, piece of evidence, that at that point in time, the administration did not think they were going to need that PPE here.

COLLINS: Yes, the fact that this is with the encouragement of the federal government as "The Washington Post" reports really does show how they were not taking this seriously in January and February, and did not see these shortages in masks and personal protective equipment that we have seen play out in these hospitals where you've seen these videos of nurses and doctors talking about the need for this equipment to go into work. This equipment just to protect them as they're doing their jobs and

now "The Washington Post" is reporting this and the White House has the trade adviser saying they believed a lot of this was for humanitarian reasons. But they were not seeing just the level of threat this was going to be in January and in February.

KING: Kaitlan Collins for us live at the White House -- Kaitlan, appreciate it.

The protests we talked about earlier, they spread Saturday to Texas. You see them right there. Those demonstrators see as too timid the plan announced Friday by the Republican Governor Gregg Abbott. It reopens state parks this week, but requires those who go into the parks use face coverings and social distancing. Many retail businesses can reopen on Friday but only for curbside pickup and delivery, the governor closed schools for the rest of the academic year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): Some businesses have fully opened without better distancing standards would be more likely to set us back rather than to propel us forward. A more strategic approach is required to ensure that we don't reopen only to have to shut down once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Houston is, by the way, the largest city in Texas, the fourth largest city in the United States. Its case count, you can see the numbers here, continues to climb, but the trend line suggests perhaps a peak or plateau is at hand.

Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner joins us now.

Sir, thank you for your time on this Sunday morning.

MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER (D), HOUSTON: Good morning.

KING: So, your governor has a pretty cautious approach, one that you are generally in line with. When you look at your numbers, and I know you're looking at them every day, probably several times a day, you appear to be maybe peaking, maybe plateauing.

Are you ready to reopen in Houston or do you need more time?

TURNER: Well, we're not ready to open. I do agree with the governor it needs to be a measured approach and you do it in stages and you don't want to open in such a way that a few weeks or months down the road, you find yourself spiking and losing lives because we opened too soon. The key to reopening, John, will be testing and if you look at where we are at this state, we haven't tested that many people, about 180,000 in a state of 27 million.

So, that's the key. If we get the testing right, if the testing is widespread, ubiquitous, all throughout our city, for example, and then we do contact tracing, then we can start to reopen in stages. But it will have to be in stages. KING: And so, you're trying to get testing for anybody who wants it

but you have supply issues. You mentioned the size of your state. I just want to put up the numbers on the screen here. Texas is tested just shy of 180,000 people, as you know, but that's 608 tests for 100,000 if you look at it on the per capita basis.

TURNER: Right.

KING: North Carolina, 727 tests per hundred thousand. Tennessee, you know, 1,278 per hundred thousand. So, Texas is testing but not enough. The president says this is up to governors, you're a mayor. Who do you call when you need more help? And are you getting help?

TURNER: Well, quite frankly, we should all be on the same team. We have federal, state and local partners. We have two FEMA public testing sites in the city of Houston. On Saturday, for example, we can test 500 persons per site at about 2:30, 3:00, yesterday, we had already tested our maximum capacity and those sites were scheduled to be up until about 7:00 p.m.

So we need a greater capability. We need to be able to scale up, more capacity and on Monday, Tuesday of this week, we may be running out of supplies and may have to scale back.

So, we do need more supplies. We do need more PPEs and all of the things that are associated with testing, if we do more testing, then we can determine and see where this virus is.

Let me say this, I've gone through major hurricanes since I've been mayor, went through Hurricane Harvey. You can look at the radar and you can see where the storm is, when it's going to hit and when it has left your city.

With this virus, it's a different challenge. The way you see it is through testing. That's how you know where the virus is. And to what degree it's in your community.

And the absence of robust, widespread, ubiquitous testing, no one knows where it is. Now, our numbers are pretty good. The medical professionals, people at the Texas medical center, they're telling me that we are starting to flatten out. We didn't add any deaths to our count on yesterday.

We're the fourth largest city. We have 32 people in the city of Houston who have died as a result of COVID-19. Now, that's pretty good.

But it's because we started early, we started shutting down things early. People have been very responsive. You don't have to have people and businesses sacrifice so much and you open too soon and you're having to repeat this all over again. So, you're doing well, but you don't just flip on the light and everything is back to normal. That's not the case.

We have to be very careful and very methodical testing becomes the key to opening up our cities and opening up our states much in a way that's very smart, prudent and conducive and consistent with the facts, the science, the medical advice, and then we can move forward.

KING: Mr. Mayor, I love your city. I wish you the best of luck in the days ahead.

TURNER: Thank you.

KING: Let's keep in touch as we go through, one of the most diverse cities in America, one of the fastest growing cities in America. You have a fabulous, fascinating medical center there.

So you have all the tools, the question is, can you get the resources you need to put it to work. We will stay in touch.

TURNER: Absolutely, absolutely.

KING: Mr. Mayor, greatly appreciate it.

Up next for us --

TURNER: Thanks, John.

KING: Thank you, sir.

Up next, the White House concedes early missteps in coronavirus testing but says states have all they need now. Most governors and health officials, though, say that's simply not true.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:24]

KING: The White House concedes some early missteps in coronavirus testing, but the president says all is now well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The governors are responsible for testing and I hope they're going to be able to use this tremendous amount of available capacity that we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And the nation's top infectious disease expert suggests some governors and public health experts are putting too much emphasis on testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: Testing is a part, an important part, of a multifaceted way that we are going to control and ultimately end this outbreak. So please don't anyone interpret that I'm down phasing testing. But the emphasis that we've been hearing is essentially testing is everything, and it isn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Perhaps not everything, but a new Harvard study suggests that the United States needs to triple testing before it can safely reopen.

Dr. Ashish Jha of Harvard's Global Health Institute is part of that study. Also joining us is Dr. Megan Ranney, a renowned emergency physician and researcher at Brown University.

Thank you both for coming back on this Sunday. It's very helpful to our viewers to just have some facts and expertise.

Dr. Jha, I want to start with you on this study and I believe we can show a chart here, for this, for "The New York Times" coverage of it.

You look at the current level of U.S. testing, your study says if we want to start sending Americans back to work, we need to triple, not scale up, triple, testing.

Explain why you believe that is so critical.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes, so, good morning, John. Thanks for having us back on.

We've been trying to assess, how much testing do we need to bring Americans safely back into the workplace and have some chance of staying open. The goal is not, can we open? The goal is can we stay open?

And our analysis -- and, by the way, most of the critiques I'm getting is you're being too consecutive. We need more tests than that. I think it's possible we're undershooting. But it's hard for me to see how we open and stay open if we're not testing about 500,000 Americans or more every single day given the burden of the disease and the size of the country and on a per capita basis, that's basically what Germany is doing. So, it's not some crazy number that a country can't achieve.

KING: I can't do the math, Dr. Ranney, and I'm not a scientific expert, so I don't know. But here's how I look at it what I've been obsessing about this past week, we want to send people back to work, of course we do, of course we do. But to Dr. Jha's point about how many tests do you need, look at who is going to work, grocery store workers are getting sick, you see the meat processing companies across the country. North Dakota, wind turbine, 110 people testing sick.

The people who are working in close quarters especially are getting sick. And so if you're going to start to send more people back in, logic would tell you, you at least need testing, temperature screenings, what else?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: Absolutely. So I agree with Dr. Fauci that testing is not everything. Here in Rhode Island, we have one of the highest testing rates in the country and yet our infections are still climbing. But you do need testing in order to identify those mild or early infections, right? We know that transmission happens when you're in the very early stages of disease or maybe before you have symptoms.

So, first, you need testing. Then you need contact tracing. If someone is sick, you need to be able to find everyone that was within that radius of them for certain period of time and to keep those people in isolation, right?

And then we need treatments and we need to protect our health care workers and our other essential workers, like you mentioned, grocers, pharmacists, the people that keep our food supply chain going, our postal workers, the people who get us the mail and hopefully enable us to vote in November, right?

[08:20:03]

We need to protect all of those people in addition to having the widespread testing. But testing is part one. Without that we can't identify those asymptomatic or early infections, and we're not going to be able to stop the spread of this disease.

KING: Let me ask more about that asymptomatic question, because we're all learning, as we go through this and we're now months into it, and we're still learning, we still have a lot of questions, what about antibody testing, what about this, what about that? You see all these things thrown out there, and people get confused.

But this jumped out at me and we've seen several examples and this is from a CNN.com piece about a homeless shelter Boston.

When an outbreak of coronavirus in a Boston homeless shelter prompted officials to do more testing, the results caught them off guard. Of the 146 people who tested positive, all of them were considered asymptomatic. Asymptomatic spread is something we underestimated overall and it's going to make a big difference, says, Dr. Jim O'Connell, the president of health care for the homeless program.

Dr. Jha, you see this in the prison systems as well, they're testing people -- I was looking at a story out of Ohio, they tested a whole bunch of people, asymptomatic positive.

How blind are we still to what is out there?

JHA: Yes, asymptomatic spread actually has an upside and a downside. Downside is obvious, right? It means a lot of people are spreading the disease without knowing it. We're really blind to answering your question and this is why my colleagues say your 500,000 number is too low, because if we're going to go out and get a lot of those asymptomatic people, we need to do 10x higher.

The one upside of asymptomatic, is if a lot of Americans have gotten the infection, that means there's a chance that a lot of Americans are already immune. So, that's where the immunity testing will help us. So there is that upside.

But right now, if we want to safely get people back to work, we have to identify those asymptomatic patients. It can be very, very hard to get people back to work safely if we can't.

KING: And as we ponder the conversation, I just want to put a map up. States are going to do this in a staggered approach, governors are going to do this based on what they think is ready, but you see if you go through the colored charts there, the states that have by May 1st or earlier, governors can make this decision. Other states after May 1st. Some have no stay-at-home orders at all.

Dr. Ranney, I'm about to talk to your governor in a minute, your cases are still going up as you mentioned in your state. As governors go through this, and every governor has to make the call and they're getting pressure from the United States of America, if we don't have the scale of testing we need, we're not sure about how big the asymptomatic community is, what other question do you have if you were a governor, or advising a governor, you would say, make sure you ask and answer this before you do anything?

RANNEY: So the first biggest thing is to make sure that transmission hasn't just plateaued, but it's decreasing, right? If it's plateaued, there are still a lot of cases out there and you know that there are other cases that are going to show up in two weeks. After that, you need testing.

You need to make sure your health care workers are protected and that you have adequate facilities so that if cases spike again, you're ready, you're not stuck in a situation that New York has been in for the last couple of weeks. And you need to have a public health system that works well together, that talks to its doctors and to its essential workers and has people believing in it.

Listen, the science of stopping epidemics like this is not rocket science. These are the same techniques that we've been using since the early 1900s to stop diseases. It requires investment and coordination. And if I were the governor, which I'm not, thank God we have Governor Raimondo here in Rhode Island, those would be the types of things I would be thinking about.

KING: Dr. Ranney, Dr. Jha, again, thank you for sharing your time and expertise with us this Sunday. That helps me every week. I hope you'll keep coming back.

As we move on, many governors are charting a regional approach to reopening. They welcome the president's guidelines but not his tweets and mood swings. Rhode Island's governor discusses her balancing act, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:14]

KING: A closer look now at the coronavirus case count in the United States and how it factors into the big debate over reopening.

First, let's just look at the numbers. And here we go, state to state. More than 735,000 cases. We're approaching 40,000 deaths in the United States, the deeper the shading, the higher the case count in each of these states.

If you look at cases by day, the United States, 32,000 cases yesterday, 32,500, we'll count today. The question is, is this flattening, is it starting to go down? We'll learn more about that in the week ahead. As we look, though, at the national map, a lot of governors are

forming regional coalitions as they decide to reopen. Oregon, Washington and California, for example, saying we're going to make most of these decisions together as we reopen. If you look at the stats, Washington and Oregon down here, they have flattened the curve.

California appears to be coming down, watch that in the week ahead. Is that just a blip? Are they starting to go back up? Something to watch in the week ahead.

Seven Midwestern states also say, to the best we can, we're going to work together because people cross back-and-forth over borders, let's try to have a regional approach. How are we doing in the Midwest?

Just look at the a few of the states here, Illinois, again, the roller coaster, you think you're starting to come down, you have a couple spikes, you have to think about this a little bit longer.

Michigan, coming down. A little tick at the end there, but seems to be coming down.

Minnesota has a flat line, way fewer cases down here as that governor responding to protests starts to do some reopening here.

The northeast, New York, deciding to form a partnership with many of the states up here, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, again to have a regional approach.

Where are we here in New England?

New York is down, three days in a row in its case down. Connecticut, two days down. Massachusetts, two days in a row. New Jersey, the president's guidelines say you want a trajectory of 14 days in a row down.

[08:29:57]

So, watch these states in the week ahead.

And lastly, let's focus on Rhode Island here. Relatively low number of cases and then it's up. And again, if you're a governor, this is what you don't want, a bit of a roller coaster.

You think you're going down then you go back up. Is that a flat line? Are you plateauing? Governors have to figure all that out which is why they say from coast to coast, yes, we would love to reopen yesterday, but we need to be careful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: For those who think we're out of the woods, those who think we've turned the page, those that think they could go back to the way things used to be, we still have a lot in front of us.

GOVERNOR J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: They're (INAUDIBLE) as anybody does. We want people to get back to work. We want people to get back to their lives. The concern here is trying to balance --

GOV. GINA RAIMONDO (D-RI): I have taken a fact-based, targeted approach to how we've done things. That's how we closed our economy and that's how we will reopen our economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining us now, the governor of Rhode Island -- you saw her there -- Gina Raimondo. Governor -- thank you for being with us on this day.

Look, this has to be an anguishing decision. You want to reopen. You want to get your people back to work, get them out of the house, get some more money into your state coffers.

However, your state in particular seems to be we're not quite sure yet. Are you still going up? Have you plateaued? A -- where are you? And when you hear the President of the United States say to Democratic governors stop complaining about testing, how does that factor into your decision about what you have to do?

RAIMONDO Yes. Good morning -- John. And thank you for having me.

We have not yet reached our peak in Rhode Island. It's hard to know precisely where we are. As with all these models. There's some variation. I think we're still a couple of weeks away from our peak. And day over day, we're still seeing an increase. So, obviously, I can't reopen the economy until we start to see the line -- we're on the backside of that curve.

I will say, Rhode Island has been very fortunate. We forged a relationship with CVS and we're doing some of the most testing per capita of any state in the country. Having said that, we need to do more if we're going to reopen.

And I would just say the federal government has more to do. You know, they sent -- for example in my state, they sent us 15 of the (INAUDIBLE) machines a couple of weeks ago. Supposedly they were going to send us enough test machines and we still have four, five machines sitting there doing nothing because we can't get the disposables.

So it's a fight to get the resources we need and the federal government's role needs to really step that up. Everyone -- no one is more anxious than governors to get people back to work. We're here in our states hearing from folks who are unemployed, who are living on the edge. We're living on the ground with these people and want nothing more than to get everyone back to work.

Having said that, if we don't do it safely, and in compliance with what the experts are telling us, we'll be right back in the soup and we can't afford that.

So, you know, I'm steaming ahead and working with my business community and collaborating, but the testing has to improve here and in every state. KING: And so it sounds like that -- you're a couple of weeks away from

being able to make a reopen decision because you need that trajectory going down. Help me understand better these regional coalitions in the sense that I went to college in Rhode Island. I started my journalism career in Rhode Island. I love it. It's a great, fabulous state. It's very special to me.

You're also on Interstate 95. We have people coming north from New York and Connecticut. People coming south from Boston and elsewhere in New England. Dr. Birx actually talked about this the other day at the White House briefing saying yes, you have your own unique problems in Rhode Island, but your neighbors are also impacting your numbers. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Rhode Island and Providence are in a unique situation. First they had increasing cases from the New York city area and now they have new increase in cases from the Boston area. They're caught between two incredible hot spots in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: How close is this regional cooperation, meaning if you're not quite ready, will Connecticut wait a couple days if it thinks it is? Will Massachusetts wait a couple days if it thinks it is?

RAIMONDO I don't know about that -- John. I will say it's a real partnership and I want to give a shout-out to all of my fellow governors in the region. We talk constantly and everyone is doing their best for the people of their state.

I think of it more as coordinating the rules. So it's not so much that we'll all go back on the same day, because we have to obviously look at what's going on in our states. But when we reopen -- when we reopen say manufacturing or retail or banking, we'll look to coordinate the rules so we're doing the same thing.

For example, Rhode Island and Massachusetts share some very large employers. They have companies like Hasbro (ph), CVS Fidelity, they have thousands of workers here and in Massachusetts. So it's going to be important that Governor Baker and I provide similar guidance to these companies because they're all looking for guidance -- uniform guidance -- as they struggle through this with us.

[08:34:56]

KING: Your state is also, like every state, really hard hit economically here. But Rhode Island is third in the percentage of the workforce filing for jobless claims. The economic impact here.

Obviously there was a program to help keep small businesses keep employees on the payroll to try to keep the unemployment numbers from spiking. That money has run out and the big fight now, as the President says just give me the $250 billion, Democrats say we want to add some aid to the states like yours. We want to add some hospital funding there.

There's this hang-up. Should the Democrats put those other issues aside for another day so that program can get more money or do you support them holding on and trying to get the President to blink?

RAIMONDO I think they all need to get in a room, virtually, quickly and pass something that provides both. It's not enough. Our small businesses need relief today. Like right now. Today.

Many of them are facing a situation where they worry that they won't be able to reopen. And so it's our obligation to get them the relief that they need. Small businesses are the backbone of America's economy and that's doubly true in my state.

However, our hospitals are also struggling. You know, the White House and governors ask our hospitals to stop doing elective surgery for safety reasons. That's their main source of revenue. So we have to be there for the hospitals to help them.

So the bottom line is, we need some measure of all of what you're talking about. It isn't time to play politics. It's not time to worry about optics. It's time to deliver outcomes for the American people. That's what they're expecting from their leaders right now.

KING: Well, we'll see what happens in the days and hours ahead. Governor Gina Raimondo in Rhode Island really appreciate your time this Sunday.

RAIMONDO Thanks -- John.

KING: Best of luck -- Governor. Thank you.

Up next, leadership Trump style. One day he has total authority, the next governors call the shots. Well, until they don't do what he wants.

And as we go to break, a somber moment here -- masks and social distancing added to a solemn farewell at Arlington National Cemetery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Saturday's White House briefing, more about airing grievances than fighting the coronavirus. The President is mad at China and the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not number one, China is number one. Just so you understand.

China is number one by a lot. It's not even close. They're way ahead of us in terms of death. It's not even close. You know it. I know it. They know it. But you don't want to report it. Why? You'll have to explain that. Someday I'll explain it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: The fact is news organizations including CNN repeatedly question China's numbers.

The President is also mad at governors and public health experts because they keep saying they need more federal help with testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They don't want to use all of the capacity that we've created. We have tremendous capacity. Dr. Birx will be explaining that. They know that. The governors know that. The Democrat governors know that. They're the ones that are complaining.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:39:59]

KING: Part of the President's anger is he simply bristles at accountability. Part of it is even business allies keep telling him testing is inadequate and the reopening will slow.

And part of it is we are 198 days from the election. His approval rating is slipping and look at this from Gallup, economic confidence is collapsing.

Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley joins us now.

Doug -- I wanted to talk to you this Sunday because my job is to follow the day to day, the minute to minute, every tweet, the every case count. You're trained to try to keep your head up at a higher look.

What are we seeing in an American president right now in your view at this time of national and international crisis?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: We see Donald Trump ill- prepared to be the leader of this wartime effort. I mean yesterday "The Washington Post" talked about he just reached the 18,000 falsehood mark, meaning lying that many times to the American people.

So when you watch one of these briefings, you don't know what to believe, what not to believe. He's in high scapegoat mode. Yesterday, it was John Kerry's fault and then Barack Obama, the World Health Organization who is now trying to do work in sub-Saharan Africa and Central America and Latin America. Money is going to be cut because they're not good. And then the Democratic governors are no good. And people are trying to take your guns away from you in Virginia.

He was all over the map. That wasn't leadership that I witnessed watching that very carefully. What I saw was a president who is in re- election mode and the way he does that is to divide the country. And he right now, when we should be trying to heal the country.

There's an article Bill Clinton wrote today in "The Oklahoman" for the, you know, 25th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing where 168 people died. And in it Bill Clinton talks about an Oklahoma standard which is unite after a crisis, kindness, honor, love, decency.

And Trump is doing the opposite of the Oklahoma standard. He's scapegoating to try to help his re-election bid.

KING: I remember that sad day very well. Also at the White House on 9/11 on that day and you see how presidents react to this.

One of the points you're making about unity is we have this remarkable moment where we can show you the protests around the country, number one. There are protests.

And look America -- a protest is a cherished American right. However, when your state says you're supposed to be social distancing or wearing facial covering, these protests -- they're an American great right but also a violation in some of these states of the law.

And you have -- and I want -- just two of the governors here. This is Virginia and Washington state at open war with the President of the United States whose tweets were encouraging these protests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR RALPH NORTHAM (D), VIRGINIA: I, along with this staff is fighting a biological war. I do not have time to involve myself in Twitter wars.

GOVERNOR JAY INSLEE (D), WASHINGTON: This is just grossly irresponsible and it is dangerously bombastic because it inspires people to do dangerous things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There's magic to the American republic -- 50 states in a national government. At this moment, we're also seeing kind of tension in the American republic also.

BRINKLEY: Well, we definitely are. I mean things are starting to come unglued and the President seems unhinged. And so it is a crisis. But we do have to turn to our governors right now.

I was thinking -- I was watching on CNN Donald Trump yesterday, what a waste of time. He was trying to run a political rally and start dividing people of Michigan against each other, and all of that and, yes, I would rather than hear from Gavin Newsom and what's going on in California or Mike DeWine in Ohio.

History is going to show this was the great moment of governors taking real responsibility and finding ways to heal their state and open their states.

I'm afraid that if President was serious, he would be -- already have created a pandemic production board like FDR did in World War 2 for war time production, a way to streamline this. I mean the whole story now is getting tests, tests, tests and nobody knows where the tests are. They've been promised. Then they're not there. And so a lot of mixed messaging, gaslighting going on from this president. What it all adds up to Donald Trump doesn't have coronavirus and he's roaring to beat Joe Biden and he's going back to his playbook of finding ways to divide the nation.

KING: Doug Brinkley -- very much appreciate your perspective on this Sunday. Let's keep in touch as we watch how this all plays out. A long way to go before we know what history will eventually write about this. Doug -- thanks very much.

Up next for us, Joe Biden wins some giant endorsements and wrestles with how to campaign from home.

And a quick look here at coronavirus by the numbers. 1.7 million small business loans processed and approved. 30 states already now closing schools for the rest of the academic year. A 95 percent drop in air travel at LAX. And 800 million Verizon voice calls a day on average -- that's more than double a normal Mother's Day.

[08:44:56]

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KING: Joe Biden welcomed several giant endorsements this past week, and the coronavirus pandemic now plays a big part in the Democratic argument for change at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This crisis has reminded us that government matters. It's reminded us that good government matters.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): In this moment of crisis, it is more important than ever that the next president restores Americans' faith in good, effective government.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We need you in the White House. Not in a million years would we have believed that we would be talking to each other in our respective homes; that we could not, you know, do rallies; that we could not get out of the house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:49:51]

KING: It is the earliest Democrats have closed the books on primary rivalries since 2004. Unity helps, but President Trump has both a giant fundraising edge and a giant media platform, one Biden tries to answer from a home studio in Delaware.

But does it matter, when all he can do is critique Trump from his basement?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It drives me crazy about our President with his two-hour press conferences. You know, there should be a unified message from all of our leaders.

Part of the power of the presidency is the pulpit, the bully pulpit he has, the power to set an example.

Your friends and co-workers are dying, our family members and friends and neighbors are dying while Trump is having a temper tantrum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's discuss. Jen Psaki worked on the Obama/Biden campaigns and at the White House and State Department. Jonathan Martin, national political correspondent for "The New York Times".

Jonathan -- I want to start with you. There is a debate going on in the Democratic Party. Should Joe Biden be more aggressive? Is it time for him to try to get out of the house and take that risk?

Liz Smith, the Democratic strategist who worked for Pete Buttigieg in the primary says, "What's the lesson we learned from 2016 about sitting around and waiting for Donald Trump to self-destruct? This is the time to throw caution to the wind. He's a human guy. He has the opportunity to provide a stark contrast to Donald Trump, so I say do it."

Anita Dunn, who now is working for the Biden campaign, veteran of the Obama White House says, "The idea of him breaking through seems to be one of the more idiotic ideas going around Washington right now. What you do at a time like this, what Joe Biden is doing is you put out your best ideas, your best proposals, you model presidential leadership."

What is the answer and how deep is this debate?

JONATHAN MARTIN, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I don't think that the campaign is going to be won or lost in April by the challenger. And I think, John -- The lesson of what's happened in the last few weeks is that this is going to be, more than any recent campaign for the presidency, a referendum on the incumbent.

By the way, this isn't just me saying that. There are a lot of Republicans and Democrats alike who are (INAUDIBLE) saying. I guess I'm just skeptical that, you know, Biden's daily media penetration is going to really shape November.

I think what's going to shape this fall is the basic question of did President Trump bring the country through the worst of this and are we looking forward to a brighter day or was President Trump perceived as failing in his core task of protecting the American people. That to me is the essence of this election, not whether Joe Biden is getting 37 minutes of cable time every day in April.

KING: I think more than ever, the incumbent is always the issue more than ever because we have incumbent in the middle of a crisis.

But Jen -- it is a challenge. We always say well, what did we learn from the last campaign. This is number 9 for me. I have no lessons from prior campaigns that help me in this campaign because of the unique challenges.

It's all playing out digitally. And if you just look digitally right now, that is a place where the President has a giant advantage over the vice president. Donald Trump has 77.5 million Twitter followers. Joe Biden 5 million. You look at the Facebook numbers. You look at the Instagram numbers. Donald Trump has spent a lot more time in the digital space than the former vice president.

However, President Obama, Trump's trump -- forgive the pun -- in the social media. Is that a place where in this unity drive, President Obama, Bernie Sanders, even Elizabeth Warren have more experience, have done more business online. Can they help the Biden campaign?

JEN PSAKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they certainly can. And this was a great couple of weeks for Joe Biden, there's no question about it. But we learned an important lesson in 2016 too, which is that the power of an endorsement and the power of, you know, someone like Barack Obama or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders trying to move their supporters to support another candidate doesn't win an election, right? You can't transfer supporters. And that's something I hope and I think the Biden team is very mindful of.

And to your point on the digital front, this was always going to be one of Joe Biden's weaknesses. You know, he didn't win by being a digital magician. Didn't win the primary by being a digital magician. He's had, as you mentioned, 10 times fewer -- more than 10 times fewer Twitter supporters, Facebook supporters than Donald Trump.

And that's an inherent advantage of incumbency but also specifically for this president because it's not just the number of supporters. He's also been mining those supporters for months. He knows exactly who his persuadable voter audience is, the Obama Trump voters, it's also the right wing voters who were unlikely voters last time. He wants to get those, he's doing that digitally.

I think the Biden campaign is mindful of that and I hope it's not just Barack Obama his face and Elizabeth Warren her face, and Bernie Sanders, but also the creativity of the teams because they are really behind on this front and they need to pick it up on the digital side.

KING: One of the ways Joe Biden can get attention is he has his vice presidential search under way, and one of the unique things about that is if you ask one of the potential female candidates most of them say, sure. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: If he asked you to be his running mate would you say yes?

WARREN: Yes. [08:54:51]

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I think the world of Joe Biden and I am fortunate to have my name considered along with an incredible group of female leaders across this country. And I'm confident no matter who he chooses, we're going to have a strong ticket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Harris -- if he asks, would you say yes?

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): I mean, obviously I would be honored to serve with Joe. But I'm just telling you that my focus right now is really on what we are dealing with right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Stacey Abrams has also said, hey, look at me.

We can't settle who it's going to be. Joe Biden will take time to do that but from a strategic standpoint, do you wait? Your convention is likely in August now. If you get to have it, it might be a virtual convention. Do you wait and build up the drama or do you dry to do it early as part of this effort to find a way to generate excitement -- Jonathan, to you first?

MARTIN: I think you wait. Look, John -- when you're the challenger to a sitting president, you've got basically three key moments. You have your pick for VP, you have your convention, and the fall debates. It's not clear that we're going to have two of those three. And so if you're Joe Biden, then you definitely want to keep the one that we know you're going to have, which is your VP pick, you want to maximize the time on that.

So I think he waits until the public health crisis is not as severe as it is right now. He's got sort of a larger media window. John -- I would just say real fast, I think on this digital question with Biden, look, I think if he was a little-known challenger for governor of a state or senator, that's a big problem. But John -- he's a former two- term vice president. He's got 100 percent name ID in this country, basically. I guess I'm just skeptical that that footprint matters as much, when you come to the race with everybody knowing who you are.

KING: One of the questions we need to answer as we head into this uncharted period.

Jen Psaki, Jonathan Martin -- we'll have more time, I hope as we get back to a more normal phase. Hopefully that comes soon for politics.

appreciate both of you coming up early this Sunday.

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS this Sunday. You can catch us weekdays as well. We're here at 11:00 and noon Eastern.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper -- a very busy hour ahead. Don't go anywhere. His guests include the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Virginia Governor Ralph Northam; Maryland Governor Larry Hogan and the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday. Have a great day and please stay safe.

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