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Inside Politics
A 50-State Experiment: How To Start Reopening; U.S. Surpasses 1.1 Million Confirmed Cases, With 66,000 Deaths; Interview With Rep. Joe Kennedy III (D) Massachusetts; Inside Trump's White House; Biden's Strong Denial. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired May 03, 2020 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:21]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST (voice-over): More than 60,000 American deaths in April. The president's attention is on May.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to open our country. The people want this country open.
KING: Plus, that coronavirus reopening is a 50-state experiment.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: We got to make sure we can get this right. Why undo all of the great progress.
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (D), TEXAS: The lives saved are priceless. But the price has been steep.
KING: And six months to Election Day, the president is angry in private, defiant in public.
TRUMP: When you ask how did we do? I think we did a spectacular job.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King. Thank you for sharing your Sunday.
Reopening from the coronavirus shutdown (ph) is the global debate. Here in the United States, it is an uneven and sometimes confusing 50- state experiment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: I understand people's frustration with the economy not being open. I feel it. I get it.
I disagree with people who say open the economy even though you know there's a public health risk. I disagree with that. I'm not going to put dollar signs over human lives. I'm not going to do that. Not for my family and not for yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: New York is the state hardest hit in the governor's shut down currently runs through May 15th.
But 32 of the 50 states are at least partially reopened this weekend. The services available in states vary state by state.
Texas is among the most ambitious, restaurants and retail shops now have a green light despite a stubborn coronavirus case count. Protesters bringing up in states still closed tight.
Huntington Beach, south of Los Angeles, for example, and at the Michigan state capitol in Lansing. President Trump is pushing states to reopen, going so far as to suggest Michigan's governor negotiate a compromise.
She said no.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: I know that some people are angry. I know many are feeling restless. We're not in a political crisis where we should just negotiate and find some common ground here. We're in a public health crisis.
NEWSOM: This disease doesn't know if you're a protester, Democrat, Republican, if you support the election of one candidate or the ouster of the other. Protect yourself, protect your family, protect your kids, your parents, your grandparents, your friends, your neighbors, the people you're protesting with. That's all I would say to them and thank them for their expression of free speech.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Fifty states, 50 plans is an experiment that will now play out for months.
Let's take a look. If you look at these states here on the map, highlighted in green, they have daily new case track going down for the past 14 days. That's one of the key requirements the White House says you should have. Governors before you reopen, see the states in green heading down.
They include Florida, the reopening under way, heading down, but you see some bumps as you go through the five day moving average, from here, Florida is coming down, but you see this in a number of states. Still spikes up and down that we watch in the days ahead.
These states here highlighted in yellow, these states are about the same. Little dips, little rises, little dips. These states essentially in the status quo as they fight the coronavirus, among them the state being very aggressive in reopening, the state of Texas. If you look here it is hard to say this is Texas going down.
It is relatively flat. If you look at the five-day moving average, that's the red line there. You see the spike in the cases here, that's why some people in Texas are worried perhaps the governor went too soon, more on that in a moment.
These states here, pink, still going up. The case count still going up, the rate of case from day to day still heading up. New cases for the past 14 days. Some of them are beginning to reopen at least slowly. Others are saying we're going to wait at least until the middle of May.
Colorado, one of the many states with the problems in the meatpacking plants and you see here a spike back here that it comes down a little bit, you could argue that's flat, but if you're the governor of Colorado, you want to see more data. Here is the issue, as America goes through this 50 state experiment, you just look at this. Where is your neighboring state? What is your state doing?
Eighteen states still have the case rate going up, 15, the yellow, about the same, 17, going down. So, if you live on the border of a state, your state might be doing great, the next state maybe not so well.
This is the big challenge. Florida, the governor was at the White House this past week, it is going down. The governor there says it is time to give it a try, we're reopening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: At the end of the day, you're doing things that are safe and the risk is small, you have a right to apply your craft. We want to get to yes, we want to be judicious and methodical and safe about it, but I think we have an opportunity to do it.
[08:05:03]
If this is your business, it sure as heck is essential to you. And if you have a job in one of these industries that some government official says is nonessential, I'm pretty sure you think that's essential too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Take a closer look at the Texas case count. It is not on a 14- day trajectory down as called for in the White House reopen guidelines and Dallas reported a new single day high in new cases, just Friday, you can see here from the morning news, officials saying, quote, residents need to continue to exercise restraint.
The Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson joins us now.
Sir, when you look at that case count, I'm wondering, have you thought in the back of your mind -- Governor, I wish you gave us another week or two or are you comfortable with this reopening?
MAYOR ERIC JOHNSON (D), DALLAS, TX: Well, I don't think it's is a matter of being comfortable. I think what I have to do is do my job as mayor of Dallas, is to keep our people safe. The governor has made a decision and, you know, we're fond of our
football analogies down here. I don't believe in Monday morning quarterbacking. I don't think it is going to do us any good. I think the decision has been made, the economy reopened partially on Friday. And now, my job is to make sure it is done in a way that is safe.
So, my focus has been on making sure people of Dallas now that we're going to do everything we can to make sure this park is reopening, doesn't put their health at risk.
KING: So, what are you seeing?
I say in the context of an ABC News poll out, it's a national number, 77 percent of Americans saying they're ready to go back to work when there is reopening. You know, 46 percent say they're ready to go to church, 44 percent say they would go to a restaurant. Only 24 percent to a movie, only 20 percent to a sporting event.
What are you seeing in Dallas as you go around and again, "comfortable" is the wrong word, but do you see people that are anxious to get back out there, participate in the economy, hesitant?
JOHNSON: I think there is a difference between what you hear and what you see. I can just go by on what we see anecdotally, people have not been rushing back into these restaurants and they have not been rushing back into the areas of the economy that the governor reopened on Friday. What we're seeing is people sort of putting their toe back in.
I think that's where a few reasons, one, don't think every business figured out literally figured out how to make the 25 percent occupancy limit that has been applied to all these businesses that can reopen work for them. They don't really know yet how they're going to execute that.
Number two, some of the businesses have figured out how to do it but decided that doesn't make sense economically. The math doesn't work for them to do it profitably.
And then third is probably the most salient one for me, which is that people aren't pouring back into these restaurants and into movie theaters and into malls and things because they don't feel it is safe to do so.
KING: But you mentioned, they don't feel safe to do so. I want you to listen here to the president of the United States who understandably wants the economy to reopen, but listen here and I'm going to ask you on the other side, did you think this is at all realistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I see the new normal being what it was three months ago. I think we want to go back to where it was. I mean, when I look at a baseball game, I want to see people right next to each other. I don't want to see four seats in between every person. We want it to be the way it was because the way it was is the right
way. We can't have somebody with half a restaurant. You understand. He got 175 seats, now he's got half. That's not going to pay the rent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you see yourself shoulder to shoulder with somebody at a Rangers game this summer? Do you see yourself at the counter of the velvet taco shoulder to shoulder with somebody? Or is what the president says they're just unrealistic in the near term future as far as you can see?
JOHNSON: I don't think anyone has a crystal ball. President Trump doesn't have a crystal ball and neither do I. So, it's impossible to say what we think is going to happen, in the next few months. But I think this, I think it is unrealistic to believe we're going to be able to be shoulder to shoulder anytime soon.
I think that the virus itself is going to dictate that. As much as we want to control things, as much as we want to try to pick a date on the calendar and say, we will be open by this date and we will be shoulder to shoulder at baseball games by this date, it just doesn't work that way. The spread of the disease is going to determine when we can reopen.
KING: Mayor Johnson, really appreciate your time and your insights this morning. Best of luck in the days ahead.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
KING: Thank you, sir.
Massachusetts is among states where the reopening remains TBD. It reported nearly 2,000 new cases just yesterday, Saturday. And you see here in recent days the case count, you call that a plateau, at best. A state wide requirement to wear a mask when in proximity to others takes effect on Wednesday.
The Boston Mayor Marty Walsh says city police are prepared to enforce that policy if necessary.
Mayor Walsh joins us now live from Boston.
Mayor, it's good to see you on a Sunday morning. I wish the circumstances were better. Where are you, you look at the Massachusetts numbers, when you look at the Boston numbers, are you still climbing? Have you plateaued?
I was using a sports analogy with the mayor of Dallas, are you in the first inning or the fifth inning?
MAYOR MARTY WALSH (D), BOSTON, MA: Yes, I think we're between -- you know, between the first and the fifth. I think these numbers, we see, they are going up. We are watching our hospitalization. Hospitals are doing a good job of managing. We filled a thousand beds at the convention center here in South
Boston for 500 hospital beds and 500 beds for our homeless population. We have about 200 people right now roughly in there. It's already serviced. It's been in a month, almost 500 people have gone through there in and out.
So we're still in the days of battling this and trying to change that curve. The governor did the order on Friday. We're going to be -- statewide ban -- asking people to wear masks. We're figuring out this weekend in Boston how to enforce that.
You know, so we still take a lot of precautions here. And your previous guest, Mayor Johnson from Dallas, great guy, he's a friend, and listening to what he's dealing with in Dallas is very complicated. I can't imagine being in a state where the governor and the mayors are on different pages and making things more complicated.
KING: One thing you saw over the weekend, you know this up in Boston now, my family is from there, I'm from Dorchester, just like you, and it's getting warmer, people want to get out, people are stir crazy.
I can show you some pictures, this is the National Mall in Washington, D.C., in Central Park -- I would assume, you don't need to be a doctor to say some of those people are way too close, given where especially here in D.C. the case count where you are still going up. New York in the plateau.
Are you seeing any of this in Boston and what are you prepared to do if you do see it?
WALSH: Well, you know, we're asking people to practice social distancing. I went for a walk yesterday myself, everyone kept 20 feet away from each other, just about, and they were walking out there. Occasionally, you'll have a couple of people see each other and stop and talk.
But really, the science behind this is pretty simple. If you come in contact with somebody with coronavirus, and you stay six, eight feet away from them, wearing a mask, you don't gather in groups, then you'll be OK.
And I think that, you know, watching all this conversation, seeing this in the country about people protesting and rallying and fighting, I think we all want the economy to open up. I want to go back to baseball games. I want to go back to football games when the fall comes. I want to do that.
But the doctors and scientists are telling us right now, it is not the right thing to do. And all you have to do is look at other countries in the world and see what is happening. I don't understand it.
The mixed messaging is confusing and that message that was set yesterday, Central Park or the Mall is the wrong message because we're still very much in the beginning days of coronavirus. Even if you're a state that is seeing numbers go down, I'm glad it is happening. I hope that continues to go down. But if we're not smart about the way we do things, those numbers could turn around and go right back up again.
KING: And you're still in the fire drill phase, my words, up there in Boston. But as you hear people talk about the future, some people at the White House now saying, maybe we don't need another stimulus plan. The president saying if there is more spending, he doesn't want money to go to cities like yours.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't think you should have sanctuary cities if they get that kind of aid. If you get aid to the cities and states, for the kind of numbers you're talking about, billions of dollars, I don't think you should have sanctuary cities. I don't see helping cities and states if they're going to be sanctuary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What would you say to the president?
WALSH: It is really unfortunate. The president has an opportunity to lead here and bring in the conversation of sanctuary cities into the coronavirus, which is just -- I guess I believe it now, but it's really -- he should be focused on making sure the American economy opens up and making sure the American people are safe and not worry about sanctuary cities.
To me, that's just -- that's a ploy to get the conversation in a different place and that doesn't work for me. So I'm focused in Boston. I'm making sure that all of the residents of Boston are safe.
That means all of the residents, wherever they come, from whoever lives in my city, they're safe. And that we can continue to get our economy back on line.
If he truly wants to do that, let's focus on what's important and what's important is making sure that our cities and towns don't collapse, making sure that we have enough testing that we can do tests so we can find out where we stand. That's another thing we don't have right now is the mass tests we can actually really get a picture of where we stand.
I don't think any city or town or state in the country quite understands where they stand right now and how they move out of this.
And then we still need personal protective equipment for our doctors and nurses and front line folks that still need it. So because as we move down the road here, if there is a second surge, all the equipment they have now, they'll need more stuff.
So I think that's what the national -- the federal government should be focused on.
KING: Mayor Walsh, good to see you this Sunday. Best of luck in the days ahead. WALSH: Thank you. Thanks, John.
KING: Thank you, sir.
Up next for us, the latest medical news including the White House plan to ramp up vaccine production.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:18:23]
KING: Coronavirus medical news this week included research showing a drug called remdesivir appears to help a bit in fighting the virus, plus, the promise from the president to quickly mass produce a vaccine when one is ready.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I hope we're going to have a vaccine and we're going to fast track it like we've never seen before. If we come up with a vaccine, I think they probably will.
REPORTER: Who's in charge of that Operation Warp Speed?
TRUMP: We have -- you know who's in charge of it? Honestly, I am. I'll tell you, I'm really in charge of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Dr. Anthony Fauci says the hope is to reach the finish line by January. So, seven, eight months from now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Not every vaccine that we went after worked, so that's an assumption that it's going to be safe, that it's going to be effective and that we're going to be able to do it quickly. I think each of those are not only feasible but maybe likely. That's what I mean when I say by January we'll do it. But I can't guarantee it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: With us this Sunday to share their expertise, Dr. Ashish Jha, he's director of Harvard's Global Health Institute, and Dr. Megan Ranney, a Brown University researcher and emergency room physician in Rhode Island.
Dr. Jha, when you hear Dr. Fauci say January can't guarantee it, is that reasonable or unrealistic given your understanding of all of these vaccine trials under way?
DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes, so good morning, John, thanks for having me back on.
I would say that's incredibly optimistic. Look, there's nobody I trust more on this than Dr. Fauci. And so I'm not going to contradict him. But I look at the same data and I think, January would be wonderful, but --
(VIDEO GAP)
[08:20:04]
KING: Little question with Dr. Jha's shot there.
Dr. Ranney, you're still treating patients, obviously, and we're talking during the break about Boston and Rhode Island still having issues. Are their patients in your hospital getting this drug remdesivir that they talk about this week as potentially helpful, not a game changer, but helpful to people who have severe symptoms?
DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: So up until just a couple of days ago, remdesivir was only available in the context of clinical trials. Now that they've created that emergency use authorization, we'll be able to start using it for the sick patients, the ones who are in the intensive care unit, on ventilators or other forms of life support. I think that we'll be ramping it up over the days and weeks to come.
But of course, just like with everybody else in this pandemic, it's still in short supply. Gilead said they're going to make large numbers of dosages available, but we don't know which hospitals are getting them yet and we don't know if it's going to be enough.
KING: I want to put up on the screen the five-day track of cases. Each state is making their decision rather than or not to open. In the state of Rhode Island, still heading up or plateaued, flat, at best. We talked about Massachusetts. I was talking to the Dallas mayor, they had a single-day spike on Friday.
You're watching the reopening beginning to play out across the country, but what are you seeing in the emergency room every day and what are you hearing from your colleagues?
RANNEY: So in my emergency department, and other emergency departments across the country, we are still seeing really sick COVID patients. Remember, it takes about a week for people to start having symptoms and then the worst of it happens somewhere between 7 and 14 days later. So, we're still seeing people who got infected , first started having symptoms a week ago and now were getting really, really sick and needing to be admitted to the hospital.
We're also seeing, of course, all those other things, all those people who stayed at home because they were scared to come to the hospital and maybe waited a little too long. So the sickness of the patients coming through emergency departments across the country right now is just sky high. We're there to take care of people, 24/7 and I just plead with people, if they're not feeling good to come and get evaluated because it has been too late for some of the patients I've seen.
KING: And what do you think, and tell me if you agree or disagree, you see research like Mike Osterholm, he's director of Center of Infectious Diseases at the University of Minnesota. He writes, this is not going to stop until it infects 60 percent to 70 percent of the people. The idea that this is going to done soon defies microbiology. In that same report saying that this is with us for a year, two or more.
Do you agree?
RANNEY: I sadly do agree. This is not a war to be fought. This is not an enemy to be vanquished.
This novel coronavirus is now here with us. My kids are going to have to deal with this when they're adults. You know, I'm hopeful we'll have a vaccine sooner rather than later, but as Dr. Fauci said, there is no guarantee.
Until then we have to have adequate testing, we have to have adequate protective equipment. But we also have to follow the science. And while we still don't have national leadership to get us testing or protective equipment, those of us who are out there in society need to wear masks and to stay distanced because it is only through that that we're going to be able to stay healthy.
Listen, John, we all want to reopen and I want my kids to go to summer camp, but I also want to protect my parents and I want to protect my community. And so, we're going to do, like, one step forward, one step back, following the science, following the public health messaging for the near future, certainly through the fall as we face that likely second wave of virus.
KING: Dr. Ranney, appreciate your time this Sunday. Dr. Jha as well. We had a little trouble with the communication, the technology. But we'll see him again next Sunday, I hope. Thank you, both.
What did the conservative Senator Marco Rubio and liberal Congressman Joseph Kennedy have in common these days? Worries the wrong people are getting help from that emergency coronavirus small business program. Congressman Kennedy joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:28:08]
KING: The White House says emergency coronavirus program designed to keep small businesses afloat is a winner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This program has been extraordinarily successful during the first round of PPP loans. One- point-six million loans were issued to small businesses. Of those 1.6 million loans, 1 million of them were given to companies with 10 or fewer employees. So, it has gone to small businesses and businesses that need it most.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: "Washington Post" analysis is far less kind. Recipients include 43 companies can more than 500 workers. The maximum typically allowed by the program, a "Post" review found.
Several other recipients were prosperous enough to pay executives $2 million or more.
Our next guest sees big banks helping administer the program as part of the problem. Democratic Congressman Joseph Kennedy III is with us this Sunday from Newton, Massachusetts.
Congressman, thank you for joining us. It's good to see you.
Just now in part because a Republican Senator Marco Rubio has been kicking the administration saying give us the details. The Treasury put out a statement saying in this second round, the average loan is $79,000. Are you even as you ask questions about round one, you have any confidence they're getting it right or getting it better in round two?
REP. JOSEPH KENNEDY III (D-MA): I think we're probably getting it better. But let's be clear, so a couple of big points here, right?
One, Congress still has not passed anywhere near enough money to make sure that small businesses are going to be able to make it through this. The estimates out there that I've seen and heard are on the order of a trillion dollars a loan for small businesses. And we passed about $650 billion, which means, John, you have people that didn't make the first round of funding, you have folks that don't make the second round of funding, because small businesses are going to be waiting for an awfully long time for the third round of funding should it come. That's going to be a huge problem, one.
[08:29:54]
Two, it means folks that were best positioned for these first two rounds aren't -- might get access to the help but the folks that aren't, those smaller businesses don't. And that's what's we're hearing over and over and over again is not just the execution of the project but the design of it, too.
And I think the administration needs to be honest to the American public about where the shortfalls are and how we're going to actually make this work and make it better because that's the entire point. We need these small businesses to be able to keep their employees afloat and provide a lifeline to the American public.
KING: Well, you question what is already under way. You say there needs to be more.
Listen here to the President's top economic advisers, one of his top economic advisers, saying hey the economy is reopening, we might be done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEVIN HASSETT, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: I think right now because there's been good news really, that the opening up is starting to happen, you know, faster than we expected, it appears to be doing so safely, then there is a chance that we won't really need a phase four.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What do you say to that?
KENNEDY: So the states started opening -- started opening up I think on Friday. It's been a day and a half. In Massachusetts, we are still very much in the midst and the throes of this thing.
The idea when you've got state budgets looking at the next fiscal year that are looking at 25 to 35 percent shortfalls, there's nowhere close to say that we're done. And I have no doubt that when we see the next round of unemployment numbers, you're going to see a very different story come out of the White House and come out of the President saying hey, Congress, we need more money to try to keep people afloat.
The way this administration obviously chooses which facts to put out publicly is interesting, to say the least.
KING: Interesting is a kind word on a Sunday morning.
There's a rare statement came out yesterday from the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell Republican of Kentucky, and your speaker Nancy Pelosi Democrat of California -- the President had offered, the administration has offered some testing.
The Senate is going to come back this week. Speaker Pelosi has said no, the House is not going to come back. And they rejected the offer for testing saying, "Our country's testing capacities are continuing to scale up nationwide and Congress wants to keep directing resources to the frontline facilities where they can do the most good, the most quickly."
My take on that was Mitch McConnell essentially acknowledging in an election year, no way. I'm not getting tested, and then finding out that some state doesn't have enough tests, pushing the political thing aside.
What is your take on that and your take on the criticism from the Republicans in the House that why won't you come back to work?
KENNEDY: So a couple things here, right. The testing regimen that has been an abject failure from the very beginning, the idea that we're now several months into this and the United States of America still does not have enough tests to adequately test people is shameful. And that fault lies in a number of locations but obviously that comes down to an administration that not only did we -- were unprepared for this pandemic. We still, months later, have not gotten our arms around the size and scope of it so we that can in fact safely reopen.
The governor here in Massachusetts is trying to put together the country's most robust contact tracing policy here and we can't get enough tests. And we've got some of the best healthcare infrastructure we'll find anywhere in the world.
So this has been a massive failure. I think Speaker Pelosi and Mr. McConnell were correct to say, hey at a time when we're relying on first responders, on folks that are delivering our mail, stocking our grocery stores and our doctors and nurses, folks working in nursing homes that they still can't get access to the testing that they need, then we need to focus on those folks before we start taking up tests for Congress. And let's put the focus where we need to in order to open up as quickly as we possibly can.
KING: Congressman Kennedy -- appreciate your time this morning. Very grateful on this Sunday. And as someone with another young artist home, I like the art collection up on the wall behind you. Have a good day.
KENNEDY: Thank you.
KING: Have a good day.
KENNEDY: You as well. Stay safe.
KING: Up next, the election is six months away and the President is angry. His pandemic response is hurting his reelection odds and making other Republicans nervous about theirs.
[08:33:53]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We are now six months to election day and as is always the case with a president seeking a second term, November's vote is more than anything else a referendum on the incumbent. That incumbent, President Trump is anxious and angry.
CNN reporting this past week on an outburst at his campaign manager. The Associated Press reports yelling with expletive about not wanting to lose to Joe Biden. He has little to no control over the pandemic now shaping almost every 2020 conversation. He does have control over his own words, though. And one Trump constant of late is trying to erase reality or at least ignore.
Thursday closed out April, the month the President predicted the coronavirus would disappear. History records facts, not predictions. April will be remembered for 60,000-plus American deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anybody has done a better job with testing, with ventilators, with all of the things that we've done. And our death totals, our numbers per million people, are really very, very strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tone deaf to say the least. And even the President's closest advisers believe he's off when he predicts the economy will rebound quickly from the coronavirus shutdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I built the greatest economy with all of the people that helped me and all of the people in this country. We built the greatest economy the world has ever seen and we're going to do it again. And it's not going to be that long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Bad battleground state polling is why the President lashed out at his campaign manager. He won't like this form an ABC News/Ipsos poll either. Only 42 percent of Americans now approve of the President's handling of the coronavirus crisis; 57 percent disapprove. That's a 14-point spike in disapproval over the past six weeks.
With us to share their reporting and their insights: Lisa Lerer of "The New York Times" and Toluse Olorunnipa of the "Washington Post".
Toluse -- I want to start with you. The President saying the economy is going to rocket back is a little tone deaf. The President saying, you know, the death numbers are good, I would say is beyond tone deaf.
[08:39:56]
KING: You wrote the other day about this effort to try to be very optimistic about the economy going forward. Is there not a concern that the President of the United States, if this recovery is uneven, if there is a coronavirus comeback, if you will, will sound off, out of touch?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, in many ways he has already sounded off in his predictions as you mentioned back in March where he said all of this will go away. He said we're at 15 cases and we're going down to zero.
Now the President and some of his advisers say that the country needs a cheerleader, the country needs hope at this time and the President is providing that hope for Americans who want to hear that things will get better.
But there are other advisers around the President and definitely on the Democratic side that say by being overly optimistic, by failing to follow the science and the data, the President is moving too quickly towards trying to get the country opened up and also overpromising what he can provide between now and November.
And that's going to leave voters very dissatisfied when we're likely to still have double-digit unemployment in November. We could still have tens of thousands of more deaths between now and November. And As you mentioned, there could be a second spike.
So there is a risk in sort of overpromising and being overly cheerful about what's happening when the country is looking for leadership and looking for someone to be level with them about what they're about to face. It's clear that President Trump wants to err on the side of being overly optimistic. But there is a risk in that strategy and a number of his advisers see that and they look at the polling and that's part of the reason he's not been doing these daily press briefings as normal because he's gone out before the press and tried to be overly optimistic and that hasn't worked out too well for him in the polls.
So there is that the balance between overly optimistic and providing hope for the country. And it's not clear that the President has figured out how to strike that balance yet.
KING: Right. And Lisa -- we don't talk about the election all that much because we're in the middle of a pandemic. But as we are now six months out, what is striking to me is the more and more you see -- Republicans have very rarely directly criticized the President but Republicans trying to inch away from him where they can back in their districts, incoming from a lot of Republicans saying not only is he hurting himself but they now worry about the senate.
LISA LERER, REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": That's exactly right. And I hear the same kind of things you do which is that Republicans are looking at those numbers and those tough (ph) senate races -- places like Arizona, or Maine or even Michigan, and they're feeling a little bit nervous.
And, you know, part of what we're seeing is a reversal in the rules that have governed Republican politics for the entirety of the Trump administration which has been basically you cleave to the President and you certainly don't do anything that could, you know, annoy him or make him lash out on Twitter against you.
And now you're seeing in some of these purple states, in some of these -- there's few remaining more moderate Republicans, you see them making really subtle efforts to draw lines between where they are on the pandemic response and where the President is.
And that's pretty clear why they're doing that when you look at the numbers. Not only has the President not gotten the kind of boost that we would expect in this kind of moment of national crisis, you know, typically there's a rally around the flag effect where Americans, you know, go to their president and boost up those approval ratings.
We haven't seen that with President Trump. His approval ratings have boosted up a little bit initially and now it's sort of returned to where they've been for most of this administration.
And we also see a really key number which is that two-thirds of people, voters believe that he mishandled the early days of this response. So that's the kind of number that a lot of Republicans are looking at and getting a little nervous about, along with their own polling numbers.
KING: And as you study, the President -- I said it early, he just sounds off sometimes. This past week, he was urging governors to reopen their schools. At that point, 36 or 37 states had already said that was not going to happen. It's up to 44 now. If you know that, why are you out there saying?
And Toluse -- some of your colleagues in "The Post" today talking about how the President spends his time during the pandemic. This is one thing that just jumped out in a "Washington Post" story today.
"Keith Frankel, a vitamins executive who occasionally socializes with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, said the President asked him to call the California Governor Gavin Newsom on his cell phone and try to make a deal for the nation's largest state to buy millions of tablets of hydroxychloroquine from an Indian manufacturer. 'A guy I know sells products to these guys in India who are making the drug,' Frankel said. and it goes on and on.
The President of the United States is talking to a friend from Mar-A- Lago, trying -- it's just mind-boggling that this is how his time is being spent in the middle of a pandemic.
OLORUNNIPA: Yes. The President has access to the best doctors in the world, the best scientists in the world that work for the federal government and that work with the federal government. And instead he relies on friends, he relies on media personalities.
There was also a lot of documentation in that reporting about Laura Ingraham from Fox News going over to the White House and trying to pitch different drugs and treatments to the President. And the President pushing ideas and talking during some of these task force briefings and focusing much more on the media side and, you know, being more animated when it came to describing how he was going to present the findings to the media or how he was going to speak publicly about what was happening behind closed doors.
[08:44:55]
OLORUNNIPA: I think that is one of the biggest challenges that we've seen in a lot of the reporting of this response is that the President has often contradicted his science experts. He's undermined them. He's made it more difficult for them to provide a response and that's part of what the problem has been so far with his response to this pandemic.
KING: Toluse Olorunnipa -- thanks so much. Lisa is going to stay with us as we continue the conversation.
Up next, the former Senate aide who alleges she was sexually assaulted by Joe Biden says she will do a televised interview but not this weekend. Biden says Tara Reade deserves to be heard but he also says it never happened.
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KING: Former vice president Joe Biden says Tara Reade deserves to be heard but he also says her claim is false. Reade is a former senate staffer. Last year she accused then-senator Biden of touching her shoulders and her neck and making her feel uncomfortable. In recent weeks she has said it was more than that, accusing Biden 27 years ago back in 1993 of using his knee to spread her legs and then assaulting her with his fingers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you sexually assault Tara Reade?
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. It is not true. I'm saying it unequivocally. It never, never happened.
Women have a right to be heard and the press should rigorously investigate claims they make. I'll always uphold that principle. But in the end, in every case, the truth is what matters. And in this case the truth is the claims are false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:49:52]
KING: Reade says she filed a complaint about uncomfortable interactions back at the time. Numerous former Biden aides contacted by CNN and other news organizations say they have no recollection of any complaint and say they were never told of or never heard of such an incident.
Biden is now asking the Senate and the national archives to review available records, and if anything relevant is found, to release it. He's also facing calls to allow an independent search of his personal papers held by the University of Delaware to verify there are no relevant documents there. Those documents are meant to be kept private until two years after Biden retires from public life.
Lisa Lerer of the "New York Times" is still with us. CNN's M.J. Lee joins the conversation. Lisa -- there was an anticipation that we would hear in a televised interview from Tara Reade this weekend but she decided to wait. You spoke to her about that.
LERER: I did. And what she told me was that she was getting numerous death threats. Not only she but her child was also getting death threats. They were getting all kind of things coming in on the Internet. They had to alert the police and that spooked her and made her, she said, want to not do this interview and kind of keep a lower profile, as much as that's possible, really, at this stage in this whole situation.
KING: Right. And anybody watching, whatever you think of the allegations, whatever you think of Tara Reade, whatever you think of Joe Biden, that is reprehensible. It is just reprehensible that it would come to that in this environment.
M.J. -- one of the things -- one of the political dynamics to this story is that you have some of the veterans of the Obama search process, the attorney who led the vetting back in 2008 that led Barack Obama to pick Joe Biden, other members of the staff including the top strategist David Axelrod writing on CNN.com. "The comprehensive vet certainly would have turned up any formal complaints filed against Biden during his 36-year career in the senate. It did not. The team would have investigated any salacious rumors of this sort that travel far and wide in Washington. There were none. Had any credible issue been raised, you can be sure Biden would not have been the nominee. Obama would not have tolerated it."
You see here, and I'm not criticizing it, but this is a concerted effort by Team Obama to say, we looked under every rock, there was nothing there.
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and this is just one of the really tricky things about reporting out this story, you know, people who say they know Joe Biden really well and have known him for decades, those folks have said, and we've spoken to some half dozen former Biden aides. I know Lisa has done really extensive reporting on this as well.
They say that the Joe Biden that they knew at the time simply did not have this kind of reputation. They also just heard nothing at the time about any complaints about sexual harassment let alone a complaint about sexual assault.
So on the one hand you have folks who knew Biden, which includes more recently the people who would have been involved in doing his vetting in the run-up to the Obama presidency.
And then you of course have the people who are close to Tara Reade who have come forward to say she told us about this alleged sexual assault either at the time or within a few years of it happening. So at some point, not only is this becoming sort of a he said/she said, but it's also becoming a her people said and his people said.
And I think that's why this has become obviously so divisive and I think so personally hurtful to people who feel like they know these two people who are saying very different things.
KING: Right. And so it's a difficult moment for all involved.
And Lisa -- you did some reporting in the newspaper today on what this does to liberal activists, to members of the Democratic Party who have been advocates for the MeToo Movement who are just some of the people under consideration for Joe Biden's running mate list in here back when Brett Kavanaugh was the nominee before the Supreme Court. They were pretty clear about the deference that should be given to any woman who has something to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: -- believe her. She has the courage to come forward. She has nothing to gain.
SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: When you look at the rules of evidence, when you look at credibility, the fact that she had mentioned this years before means a lot.
STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I was proud of Dr. Blasey Ford's response and her demeanor but more importantly, her courage in stepping forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Discuss sort of the anxiety among Democrats, many of whom, including those women right there, who say I believe Joe Biden but their own public record says Tara Reade deserves to be heard.
LERER: Right. Democrats are put in a really challenging position as a result of all this. Democrats have really staked their reputational brand during the Trump Era in part to draw contrast with the President, who of course, has more than a dozen women accusing him of sexual abuse in various forms as being the party that takes a no- tolerance stance when it comes to sexual harassment, you know, gender bias, sexual violence -- all these kinds of issues.
[08:54:48]
LERER: And so now they're faced with what is by all accounts a very challenging case. Some Democrats are drawing a distinction from Kavanaugh, saying unlike in Kavanaugh, where there was a body, the Senate, to investigate those claims, there's no real clear body here to investigate these claims.
Joe Biden is not in office. This is a presidential campaign. There is no employer or ethics committee or anything like that. So that leaves everybody kind of in this murky territory -- voters and, you know, partisans on both sides, of how to figure out what is actually going on here.
I also think some of this is due to the campaign's response because Biden and his campaign were silent for so many weeks, that really put his top female surrogates, including some who are being considered for the vice presidency in this position where they had to answer challenging questions that he was unwilling to go out there and talk about.
And that's a position that no politician particularly wants to be in -- particularly, you know, when you think you're auditioning for the vice president presidential slot. This was just a number challenging political dynamics both from the campaign and really from the sort of larger political environment and moment that we're in.
KING: Lisa Lerer, M.J. lee -- I appreciate your insights on this.
I just want to echo the point and people at home should make up their own decision as this story plays out but the idea that the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee are trying to traffic in this story is laughable given the President's own history and his lack of transparency on this issue.
That's it for us this Sunday. Hope you can catch us weekdays as well. We're here at noon Eastern.
Up next, a very busy "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper. Don't go anywhere.
Jake's guests include the White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow, the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, plus Independent Congressman Justin Amash who hopes to be the Libertarian Party's presidential nominee.
Thanks again for sharing your Sunday. Have a good day. Stay safe.
[08:56:40]
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