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Inside Politics
President Trump Spending Third Day In Hospital Due To Coronavirus; GOP Leaders Vow To Press Ahead With SCOTUS Confirmation; White House Sows Confusion About Trump's Condition; Wisconsin's COVID Crisis; Interview With Lt. Gov. Mandela Barnes (D-WI); Biden Resumes Campaigning In Key States After Negative Test. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired October 04, 2020 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:06]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST (voice-over): The president hospitalized. Coronavirus spiking at the White House, and across the GOP.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I'm doing very well. But we're going to make sure that things work out.
KING: Plus, two experimental treatments and mixed messages about the prognosis.
DR. SEAN CONLEY, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: We remain cautiously optimistic, but he's doing great.
KING: And four weeks to election day, the candidate the president mocked for his masks is the candidate still on the trail.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This is not a matter of politics. My wife Jill and I prayed that they'll make a quick and full recovery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm John King.
To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thank you for sharing your Sunday.
The president of the United States is hospitalized with coronavirus, angry at his own chief of staff for suggesting things are dicey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So I just want to tell you that I'm starting to feel good. You don't know over the next period of a few days I guess that's the real test. So we'll be seeing what happens over those next couple days. I just want to be so thankful for all of the support I've seen whether it's on television or reading about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: That video message sent over Twitter Saturday night after the president became upset at media coverage that included an ominous statement from his own chief of staff and a briefing from his doctors that raised more questions than it answered.
There's still a lot we don't know. But we do know this, the president needed oxygen at least once on Friday. And his treatment now includes an experimental antibody cocktail and another experimental drug known to reduce length of hospital stays in some COVID-19 patients.
The weight of this moment is obvious. The president is upbeat, but the president is at higher COVID risk because of his age and his weight, and not since Ronald Reagan was shot four decades ago has an American president been at such grave risk.
Also obvious is how we got here. For months, the president and his team mocked the scientists and their advice about wearing masks and keeping distance. They ignored worries the president himself was putting himself and others at risk with crowded rallies and packed White House events like his convention speech and last weekend's Supreme Court rollout.
The president himself said playing down the pandemic is a deliberate 2020 strategy. Now, 30 days to Election Day, the coronavirus case count nationally is heading up and the president, plus a growing number of his team and his allies now counted in the grim statistics he wants you to ignore.
The head of the United States government is hospitalized. The head of the Trump campaign is COVID positive and in isolation, so is the head of the Republican Party. Three Republican senators are infected. Melania Trump is COVID positive. So is the president's personal assistant, and at least presidential confidants, Hope Hicks, Kellyanne Conway, and the former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.
The president's hope of making the pandemic less of a campaign issue is shattered. Those Senate infections could jeopardize the president's goal of a pre-election Supreme Court confirmation vote and it is a horrible time for yet another Trump White House credibility crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONLEY: Week of COVID, and in particular, day seven to 10 are the most critical in determining the likely course of this illness. At this time, the team and I are extremely happy with the progress the president has made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Dr. Conley repeatedly refused to answer directly when asked if the president at any time needed oxygen and he had to issue a statement after that briefing to clean up mistakes about the treatment timeline.
The chief of staff, Mark Meadows, called into Fox News last night because the president was furious Meadows told reporters earlier in the day that, quote, the president's vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning. The next 24 hours will be critical in terms of his care. We are still not on a clear path to a full recovery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He's doing extremely well. I'm very optimistic based on the current results. He's made unbelievable improvements from yesterday morning when I know a number of us, the doctor and I were very concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: With us this Sunday, CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, chief of infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital, and Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency room physician and Brown University researcher.
Kaitlan, I just want to start at the White House with the anxiety and the mixed messages. The president of the United States is in the hospital. We've had, forgive me, a bit of a Keystone Cops routine about information released and then contradicted and corrected.
You have anxiety among White House aides they are learning things from us in the news. They're told to come to work. They're come to work at the Trump campaign and they don't know what's going on.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and it's not just White House staffers. It's also people who've been around the president that say they've gotten no calls from the White House medical office on what they should do.
[08:05:04]
But when it comes to mixed message, you saw it play out with Mark Meadows telling that to Judge Jeanine of Fox News last night saying that they were actually concerned about the president's condition on Friday morning, talking about his fever and talking about his oxygen levels.
John, that's not what Mark Meadows was saying to us publicly. He briefed reporters out in the driveway about 10:00 a.m. Friday morning when he just said that the president had mild symptoms and was talking about the work that he wad doing and the great spirits that he was in.
So, the White House is not giving a clear message about what it is and what's going on with the president's health. So, we're having to learn this information through sources and other ways because we're also not getting a clear picture from the president's own doctor who won't give something as simple at his vitals when he was pressed by reporters multiple times yesterday, something as simple as whether or not the president was given supplemental oxygen.
He would not say yes or no whether or not he actually been on it. Though a source later told CNN that the president had actually been given supplemental oxygen. And so, this is a White House where we have talked about this before,
whether or not we are getting straight answers from them. But this is a time when it actually matters the most, because it does concern the president's health. He's in the hospital on experimental drugs.
We don't know when he'll leave the hospital, and so at a time when we do need these answers, the White House is not giving them or if they are giving them, they're not matching up with what other officials are saying.
KING: So, let's get to the doctors on this.
Dr. Walensky, let me start with you, from what we know, and I know there's a lot we don't know, but we know from our reporting, as Kaitlan noted, the president needed oxygen on Friday. He was having trouble breathing.
We know from his doctors he's on this antibody cocktail and he's on his second day now, I believe of remdesivir. From what you heard from the doctors and what you understand from COVID from your personal experience, what's your assessment based on the what we do know?
DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CHIEF OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: Good morning, John.
So this is opaque whether it's for the president's image, for patient confidentiality, national security, we don't have all the details that we'd really like to have to piece this together. I can't tell you, we know when vital signs and things are normal, we do not know when things are abnormal, nobody has mentioned a test CT or chest X-ray. I'm certain those have happened.
Nobody has mentioned whether he's on drugs to bring his temperature down. We know that at certain points of time, he hasn't had a fever. We don't know at what points of time he's been on oxygen.
He did receive a single dose, it's a one dose therapy of the monoclonal antibody. He's also on day two of what is generally a five- day course of remdesivir.
I want to be clear. The natural history of this disease, even when should the experimental therapies work, plays out in the order of days, not in the order of hours. So to say on Friday night he was less well and on Saturday afternoon he's well, I think we still have five days, seven days to see how this really plays out.
KING: And so, Dr. Ranney, come in at that point, is there -- if you're hospitalized and taking remdesivir, is there a minimum you have to stay? I was told by somebody the president has been told he's going to be in the hospital for at least five days, perhaps more. The president in the message said he hoped to be out soon. Plus, we have the risk factor. The president is 74 years old. He's five times more likely to be hospitalized. He's 90 times more to die than a young person. His obesity makes him three times more likely to be hospitalized. Obviously, he is. And, you know, you see the issues that male patients have with us. A, based on what we've heard, and, B, based on your experience with the president, what is your assessment?
DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yeah, John, to echo off of what Dr. Walensky was saying, there are so many things that we still don't know, but based on what we do, I expect he'll be in the hospital for at least the five days of the remdesivir treatment. It would be unusual to send someone home, even the president, while he's still receiving that treatment, because there are side effects. It can cause liver toxicity and allergic reactions. He should be monitored very closely while he's still receiving that.
Additionally, the fact he was given supplemental oxygen presumably because he needed it. That increases his mortality rate above what is predicted based off his age, his male sex and his obesity. Studies from the U.K. looking at patients who have been hospitalized the COVID-19 and got dexamethasone which many of us imagine President Trump has received showed for people on oxygen and have COVID-19, the mortality rate goes up to between 23 percent and 26 percent. So, about a one in four chance of dying.
And hopefully, these experimental drugs will work. Hopefully, the remdesivir will work. We should all be waiting and watching closely for the next five or ten days until President Trump gets over that hump of what we are worried about which is the immune -- robust immune response which can cause all the negative complications from COVID-19.
[08:10:08]
KING: And, Dr. Walensky, I want to stay with the medical professionals for a second. Just help me understand what's on your checklist right now? Do we know, for example, they say, you know, obviously, tested positive on Friday, needed oxygen, was hospitalized.
Last night, the president says he's feeling better. Let's hope he is. Let's hope whatever treatments they're having are having a positive.
But does that mean anything? Meaning that you can take down his fever with medication and do other things with medication. Is there a predictable path that if on day three he's doing well, therefore, he's on a path to recovery, or is this unpredictable that some patients get better and then take a turn for the worst?
WALENSKY: I want to just comment yesterday about the video we saw of the president. I think that was rather reassuring. He got through a six-minute video. He did not require oxygen for it. He was speaking in full sentences, did not appear short of breath. There was not a single cough during the period of that video.
So, for some short period of time, he was able to tolerate saying those words and looking quite well, I think. That said, I think we are in watchful waiting. It is the Regeneron antibody, when it works, tends to decrease your duration of disease. The remdesivir when it works, tends to decrease your duration of disease. But I don't think these intermittent signs of today, he doesn't have a fever, right now, he's not on oxygen is necessarily any indication that he's out of the woods.
KING: Dr. Walensky, Dr. Ranney, Kaitlan Collins at the White House, appreciate you getting us started on this Sunday. An important story. And we will stay with us.
Up next, the Trump campaign now without the star attraction. Republican worries now include Senate infections that could put their Supreme Court confirmation plan at risk.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:16:03]
KING: Republicans are worried the president's coronavirus hospitalization is going to make an already bad election climate worse, and the GOP's one giant pre-election goal, also in some jeopardy this Sunday. Two Republican members of the Senate judiciary committee, Mike Lee of Utah and Thom Tillis of North Carolina, you see they're part of that event, among at least eight people at the Judge Amy Coney Barrett rollout event eight days who have tested positive for coronavirus.
Now, Republican leaders vow to press ahead. But their confirmation math could get dicey if Senators Lee and Tillis are sidelined for long. Plus, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin also has coronavirus.
It's too soon for any reliable polling about the campaign impact that the president's COVID hospitalization and the broader coronavirus outbreak now among Republicans.
But the weekend mood along GOP strategists is grim. New polling suggests last week's debate had Democrat Joe Biden leading in two critical battlegrounds, Florida and Pennsylvania, and two-thirds of voters in those states disapproved of how the president conducted himself in Tuesday night's debate.
With us this Sunday, Seung Min Kim of "The Washington Post", and Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times".
Seung Min, let's start with the confirmation battle and I want you to listen, last night, Senator Lindsey Graham who is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee also in a tight reelection battle, he brought this up at his debate with his Democratic rival -- Senator Graham says full speed ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The virus is serious, but we have to move on as a nation. When a military member gets an infection, you don't shut down the unit. We're going to have a hearing for Amy Barrett, the nominee to the Supreme Court. It will be done safely, but I have a job to do and I'm pressing on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He says he's pressing on, but their math gets dicey if, A, if Tillis and Lee are sidelined for a significant amount of time, and if any more Republican senators get COVID.
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, ever since Republican officials started laying out this very aggressive yet doable timeline to get Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court after or before election day, they stressed over and over to me that this relies on every piece falling in the right place.
Right now, that is not happening, and we don't know how long these Republican senators will be sidelined for. You know, their aides tell us they are doing well. They are expected to take part in confirmation hearings starting October 12th, which could be done virtually, and there's a fight between Senate Democrats and Republicans over that.
But you're right. The math really matters here because Mitch McConnell had little room for error in the first place. He has two Republicans, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins who do not support a vote on this before Election Day. So he's already working with just 51 votes.
You can't lose any more Republicans with that little of math, and McConnell has been someone who has been adamantly against proxy voting during the time of the pandemic. So we -- if this goes on and if this really affects the floor vote calculus, McConnell will have to come up with creative ideas to come up with election day.
KING: And you know he's trying to work on that.
And, Jonathan, we can't understand yet the broader campaign impact. I know what talking to Republicans during the president race, during the Senate race, over the weekend, they're in a grim mood. Number one, without a doubt, this puts coronavirus at the top of the campaign agenda. It was anyway, but the president was trying to brush it aside.
I want you to listen. This is Matt Gaetz, one of the president's key allies. Republicans have a challenge now.
How do we message in the final weeks of the campaign, the final days, with the president in the hospital?
This is Matt Gaetz's answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): This virus can get into the oval, into the body of the president. There's no place where it could not possibly infect one of our fellow Americans, because there is no lockdown that can be a panacea to save everyone from everything, and this is proof positive that's the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: No. It is not proof positive that's the case. It is proof positive that if you behave recklessly, you might get infected. And I say in the context -- I just want to show you this, the
president's schedule just in the days, just in the days before his diagnosis. We could go back weeks and months. The SCOTUS announcement, the Supreme Court announcement at the White House, a packed crowd at the White House. People packed into small meeting rooms inside the White House before that.
A crowded rally in Pennsylvania. A press conference in the briefing room. Walking out with Pence in the Rose Garden on testing.
He had a debate in Cleveland. He spoke to reporters at the White House. He had another big rally in Duluth.
He gets on Air Force one headed to a fundraiser after being told one of his aides tested positive within his proximity.
The challenge here is the president's reckless behavior, not that COVID can get anybody.
JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, also that the White House apparently hosted the event where a lot of people got the infection. A super spreader event. The cavalier attitude toward the virus, and now the fact of the president being in the hospital and his staffers painting a rosier picture of his health than is true.
Those rocks pile up in the backpack, John, and that's a pretty heavy load for Republicans to carry up the hill, all those factors together. And I just think take a step back, John. The mere fact of asking voters to support an incumbent president who has been hospitalized for at least a few days -- we don't know how long, with a really serious disease, that's a tough ask of the electorate.
And you add to that why he's been hospitalized, and I think it creates challenges for the GOP.
I would caution that there's still a lot of October left. And if 2020 proves anything, it's that we can't be too premature about what's going to happen next, because Lord knows everything has been unpredictable.
KING: That is true. We do have a lot of October left.
We know, though, that Seung Min, A, the Supreme Court nomination, the Republicans want to ram it through. We don't know if the president can get on the campaign trail. We don't know if there will be additional campaign debates.
We do know, though, as I noted before, the president and Republicans have been hoping to push the coronavirus down or give it competition. Joe Biden's agenda, law and order was part of the thing.
This is from social flow. Look at media attention by topic in August, right? The coronavirus up here, the coronavirus right now, still way up there. You did see a spike in Supreme Court attention around the nomination, but the Republicans, the hopes of changing the conversation in the final four weeks of the campaign just forget about it with the president of the United States in the hospital with coronavirus and with so many other Republicans, Trump team members, Trump White House aides, Republican senators.
With all this COVID, Seung Min, it's impossible for Republicans to try to change the subject.
KIM: There is absolutely no way that you can change the subject from here. Actually, if you watched the South Carolina debate you saw Lindsey Graham try to pivot so many answers back to the Supreme Court confirmation fight, because they know that galvanizes Republican voters but even that is un-escapable from the virus with a growing number of senators getting the virus.
So, Republicans, they know they had to switch attention back to the economy, to judicial confirmations, anything but the pandemic and the president's handling of it. It's hard to do right now with the commander in chief himself at Walter Reed, therefore, a number of days that we don't yet know, and clearly this being so front and center of the public minds right now with him being hospitalized.
KING: Uncertainty abounds. Jonathan makes an important point. We're still early in October.
Jonathan Martin and Seung Min Kim, grateful for the reporting and insights.
And next, the share of shocking and tragedy includes a hospitalized president and across the country a resurgent coronavirus.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:28:21]
KING: The president is hospitalized 30 days before the election, clear answers about his condition and coronavirus treatment? Well, they're hard to come by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: He's not received any supplemental oxygen?
CONLEY: He's not on oxygen right now.
REPORTER: You said he's fever free now. What was his fever when he had one?
CONLEY: I'd rather not give any specific numbers but he did have a fever.
REPORTER: Have you done a screen? Is there been any sign of any lung damage?
CONLEY: We're following all of that. We do daily ultrasounds. We do daily lab work. The team is tracking all of that.
REPORTER: Has he ever been on supplemental oxygen? CONLEY: He -- right now, he is not on oxygen.
REPORTER: I know you keep saying right now, but should we read in to the fact that he had been previously?
CONLEY: Yesterday and today, he was not on oxygen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: With us this Sunday, Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health and CNN presidential historian, Douglas Brinkley.
Dr. Jha, I want to start with you. It's hard to know listening to that from the doctors, they were not specific. They issued another statement late last night saying the president is doing better now that he's hospitalized.
What is your assessment based on the information you have and I know there's some missing? And to the point the president made in his video that he's feeling better and hopes to be back soon, both on the job at the White House and on the campaign trail, is that realistic?
[08:29:36]
DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. Good morning, John. Thank you for having me on.
It's been (AUDIO GAP) day yesterday. Lots of evasiveness, a complete lack of consistency, self contradiction. It's hard to know how the president is doing. Obviously we all hope he's doing well.
But I think this is going to be a slow recovery. It's hard for me to see him bouncing straight back from this. Again, we all hope he does, but I think it's going to going to be difficult.
KING: You think it's going to be difficult.
Dan Balz, Doug Brinkley, put it this way in "The Washington Post" this morning. "This episode piled on top of everything else that has occurred this year adds to the strain of a nation that never seems to have a minute to turn away from misery or controversy or both, never has a chance to collect its breath. Events, some of them once in a decade or once in a century occurrences now play out all in unison. There is no respite."
Put this moment into context for us, if you can.
DOUG BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I think it's the big moment of 2020. I mean, history is going to write about COVID-19, this extraordinary story. Donald Trump's fumbling out of the gate to get our country organized to attack the pandemic. Got a little bit of traction, but then started saying crazy things about what drugs to take and started not wearing masks, holding big rallies indoors, having one of the political leaders of his party, Hermann Cain die. And so here we are with the clock ticking towards November 3rd and the president of United States instead of campaigning or being able to fundraise in any normal way is incapacitated, is in Walter Reed Hospital. And it's a major big story.
And we have to see, John, how this will play out on the rest of the campaign. Can there be future debates? I would just tell you, keep in mind when we talk about the Kennedy/Johnson debates in 1960, the third debate there, they weren't in the same room, Kennedy and Nixon. JFK was in Manhattan, New York City while Nixon was in Hollywood. You might have a situation where Donald Trump on October 15th asked to do the debate in a different way, meaning telecommunication way from either the White House or Walter Reed. Otherwise it gets scrubbed.
KING: That's remarkable but given this year, I put nothing off the table given this year.
Dr. Jha, we have talked about this repeatedly over the past several months. That behavior frankly that is just reckless and irresponsible for the president and people around him. I just want to go back in time a little bit. This is what the president of the United States back when he was talking to Bob Woodward in all of those interviews about Bob Woodward's book "Rage" the president seemed to think that he somehow was different. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB WOODWARD, AUTHOR: Well, you're risking getting it, of course, the way you move around and have those briefings and deal with people. Are you worried about that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I'm not.
WOODWARD: You're not.
TRUMP: I don't know why. I'm not. I'm not.
WOODWARD: Why?
TRUMP: I don't know. I'm just not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You have that, Dr. Jha. And then you had at the debate on Tuesday night, there was a requirement that everybody in the hall was supposed to wear a mask. Members of the Trump family and other members of the Trump delegation came walking out in their masks and when they sat down, they took them off.
A Cleveland Clinic staffer tried to come and give them masks to tell them to put them on, they refused to put those masks on. The defiance of the president and the people around him in the past several months, what does that tell you?
DR. JHA: Yes. So I know that the president wasn't worried. I've been worried. Many of us have been worried. I have written and said as much that I've been very worried that the approach that the White House is taking to protecting the president to protecting the first family. It is inadequate and this is likely to happen. And here we are.
I think there has been a cavalier attitude about all of this. That it's not a big deal, that they somehow, their testing program alone was going to keep everybody safe.
We all knew it wasn't going to, and unfortunately it turns out that science got this one right, and the White House could not defy the predictions of what we know about this virus.
KING: And Doug, the lack of transparency about the specifics. What was the president's fever? How long and for what need did the president need oxygen? Is that common or is this unusual?
BRINKLEY: It's unusual for this modern era, you know. In the past, presidents would always try to conceal their illnesses, whether it was, you know, Eisenhower with his heart attack or Woodrow Wilson with his stroke.
But in this case, we really were being gas lit. I mean with just two false different kinds of bits of information, letting everybody scramble -- the whole world is leaning forward trying to know what's going on now and we can't get any clear information.
So it's a debacle. And, you know, it's good that President Trump's able to tweet images of himself that are a bit reassuring, but I think full and utter transparency would be the friend of the president and it certainly would be beneficial to the people of the United States and the world at this juncture.
KING: Doug Brinkley, Dr. Jha very much appreciate your insights this morning. Gentlemen, thank you.
Up next for us, the national count of new coronavirus infections is climbing again. Wisconsin, one of the states in crisis.
[08:34:52]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The president's hospitalization with COVID-19 comes at a moment of indisputable evidence, the virus is spiking again across the country.
Let's look at the numbers. You look at the trend map right now -- 21 states, that's the orange and red, heading in the wrong direction. Wrong direction means more new infections now compared to a week ago. 21 states trending up.
The beige are the 26 states holding steady. Only three states reporting fewer new inspections now compared to a week ago. So the country headed in the wrong direction.
If you look at the case curve, again the peak of the summer surge, about 77,000 infections a day. That was the average, above 70,000 -- you see July 16th there. We did come down some but we're heading back up.
Now above 40,000 new infections a day. On Friday 54,000 new infections reported. Heading in the wrong direction as we get closer to the election, and more importantly the public health officials would say as we get into the fall, the cold weather, people heading inside, the trend lines going in the wrong direction.
States are testing. This is what you watch to try to look around the corner. The positivity rate, 22 percent in Idaho. 24 percent in South Dakota. 22 percent in Wisconsin. We hope that's a blip but 42 percent in Mississippi. The governor just dropped the mask mandate there.
Double digits in a number of states. Those are the deeper colors across the country right now. And ten states in the past week, ten states have set records for new cases and the seven day average of new coronavirus infection.
So this disease is not fading. It is growing. Especially if you look at the northern swath of the country, it's no secret there. It's colder. It's colder in the northern part of the country as we head into the season.
Wisconsin is a state in crisis right now. You don't need me to explain the numbers. You can just see it in the spike of that line. Look at this line from the end of August up through September into October. Saturday nearly 3,000 cases in the state of Wisconsin. But when you look at it from a testing positivity rate, positivity rate below 5 percent is good. Wisconsin didn't get there except for way back in June. And now the Wisconsin testing rate again in double digits, way up here. So doctors across the state say we have a crisis.
[08:39:54]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PAUL CASEY, GREEN BAY EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTOR: And over the past two weeks we've seen a remarkable rise in COVID cases in Brown County. What that has resulted in is a marked increase in patients coming to my emergency department to the point that as you mentioned for the first time in 16 years that I've been here, we've had to put patients in hallway beds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The lieutenant governor of Wisconsin joins us now, Mandela Barnes. Governor Barnes, thank you for your time this morning. We can put up some front pages of some newspapers in your state.
You have the president of the United States hospitalized, and you also have your state in a crisis. We've talked about this over the many months of COVID-19. What happened? Why is Wisconsin in crisis right now.
LT. GOV. MANDELA BARNES (D-WI): Yes. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, the temperatures are changing here in Wisconsin, and people had a very lovely summer this year as far as the weather though is concerned. People had an opportunity to hang out and congregate outside. And people haven't stopped congregating.
We're also in the beginning of football season, you've the NBA championships and people are going back to bars. People are having house parties, and people aren't necessarily being responsible.
But it's also important to note that the leaders aren't being responsible. We have our senator, Ron Johnson who has contracted COVID-19. He said that he doesn't care where he got it from, and obviously he didn't care who he gave it to either because he went to an event the same night that he took a test before even finding out the results. And we also see the behavior of the president of the United States as well.
KING: Well, as you know, this debate has been ongoing. But at this moment with the president in the hospital, your numbers going up, you see people tweeting and saying things to the effect of well, this proves mask mandates don't work because look at Wisconsin, you know, their cases are going up. Look at other states, their cases are going up.
You have other people in your state, you know, blaming the fight with the Supreme Court over the governor's powers. Does the politics help or hurt at this moment when you have a public health crisis?
BARNES: Well, the politics are definitely hurtful, especially when you have a legislature who refuses to take this seriously. The legislature refuses to meet to address the crisis, and accept it for the severity that it is, excuse me, posing to our state.
And also, you know, with the Supreme Court fight, it is unfortunate because there's so much more that we should be able to do as public health officials whether at the state level or even the county level. There's so much we should be able to do as an administration, but our hands are tied, unfortunately.
And like I said, our legislature has been completely unresponsive. And now they are joining the lawsuit, the newest lawsuit to challenge the extension of the mask mandate. And as I said before, they have no problem with joining COVID-19 in the fight against Wisconsinites. And it is going to paint a very ugly picture this fall if we continue down this path.
KING: You mentioned the lawsuits about COVID. There are also lawsuits about voting playing out in your state. And I just want to put up on the screen. There have been nearly 3 million ballots -- 2.7 million ballots already cast in the United States by mail or early voting.
And you see your state, Wisconsin right there behind Florida, nearly 440,000 ballots cast already. You do have these lawsuits challenging say opening arenas for early voting centers and things like that. You have these legal fights and you also a soaring case count right now.
What is the impact on the vote 30 days to the election in a key battle ground state, Wisconsin?
BARNES: Well, the thing is there's a lot of enthusiasm here, obviously, to vote in this election in Wisconsin. And it's a shame that more people are upset about the possibility of folks voting at arenas than Trump's assertion or suggestion that people should go -- that these armed militia should go watch polling locations especially in urban areas.
I think it's a priorities mismatch. It shows, you know, who these people actually want to vote and who they don't want to vote. That's the big problem here. This isn't something that you can just take on your own. This isn't like gerrymandering where they already pick their own voters.
You can't do that on a broad scale. That's not democracy. And we're getting so far away from how government is supposed to function, how civics is supposed to work in America. And it is, again it's a scary thing, but people are going to step up, and we are taking every precaution necessary.
Our party infrastructure is strong right now especially when it comes to voter protection. We got our voter protection hotline if anybody feels intimidated, anybody has any questions, they are free to contact that. And we are going to do whatever we can in spite of to make this process flow as smoothly as possible.
KING: Let me ask you lastly, Governor Barnes, in the debate Tuesday night, the president of the United States said stand down but stand by to a group, The Proud Boys, a white nationalist group. A couple days later after refusing to clean it up went on Fox News and said he denounced them.
I'm just wondering as a black man and a black public official in the United States of America, what was your reaction to watching the president of the United States in that debate moment?
BARNES: So, it's the same as it always is with Donald Trump -- shocked but not surprised. We know his MO, how he got into office, and we know he knows that he can't win reelection without racism. And that's not to say that all of his voters are racist, but he can't win without racism. That's his wild card.
[08:44:57]
KING: The Lieutenant Governor for Wisconsin, Mandela Barnes. Grateful for your time, sir, at this very important moment in the COVID fight and in the campaign. Thank you.
BARNES: Thank you.
KING: Thank you, sir.
And up next for us Joe Biden is in the lead and still campaigning but carefully.
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KING: The president wanted to make something clear Tuesday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wear masks when needed. When needed I wear masks.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Ok. Let me ask --
TRUMP: I don't have -- I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Five days later, the president is in the hospital with coronavirus. Joe Biden and his mask are still out campaigning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's not about being a tough guy. It's about doing your part. Wearing a mask is not only going to protect you but it also protects those around you -- your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, husband, wife, neighbor, co-worker.
Don't just do it for yourself. Do it for the people you love. The people you work with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It is unclear now if the two remaining presidential debates on the schedule will happen. Mike Pence and Kamala Harris are scheduled to debate this week seated 12 feet apart instead of 7 because of the White House coronavirus outbreak.
[08:49:49]
KING: With us this Sunday to discuss this moment, David Axelrod, who, of course, was the top strategist of the Obama/Biden campaigns in 2008 and 2012.
David, it is just a fascinating unchartered waters moment in this presidential campaign. Joe Biden mocked for weeks and months by his rival, the president of the United States, still out campaigning while the president is hospitalized. The Biden campaign says he will continue to do that. They say he will continue to do that carefully. And they also says he will be tested more regularly and they will be transparent about the results.
What does this moment mean?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN HOST: Well, of course, we don't know. But one thing we know about this race is that there have been seismic events blowing up all around it and the structure of the race hasn't changed really.
Biden has held a very steady lead and this probably won't hurt it. I mean, that is such an awkward moment you played of the president mocking Biden and, you know, the president desperately wanted to get this virus in the rearview mirror. And now the virus has put him in the hospital and it put -- that has put the virus right back in the headlines.
So you have to feel like this is a blow to his candidacy, not to mention the fact that he is off the trail. And -- go ahead, John.
KING: No. He is off the trail. Joe Biden has to pick -- my question is the tone right now. The President of the United States is hospitalized. All Americans should be concerned about their president when he is hospitalized.
Joe Biden says he will continue to campaign but they did pull down negative ads and put up more positive ads instead, so there's no slashing ads against the president on television.
But at a union town hall yesterday, Joe Biden, to your point, he wants the president's mismanagement of the pandemic to be issue number one and he continued to make that case yesterday. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: For so long, Washington left our states, cities and transit agencies to bid against one another. If that's not the president's responsibility, what the hell -- what the heck is his responsibility?
It's not my fault. I have no responsibility. Go to your mayor, your governor, your employer. It's unconscionable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You would not say take your foot off that gas pedal, would you? Would you keep that issue up? Or is there a taste question with the president in the hospital?
AXELROD: I think there is a line you have to walk. I don't think Biden crossed it there particularly because the president made a point of tweeting out last night that he is feeling well and, you know, he continues to put himself out there.
But I do think you have to be careful. And you know, one thing about Biden -- and you know him well, John -- is that, you know, he is sensitive to these things. He does have a sense of empathy. He apparently, asked the campaign to pull down their negative ads. It was the right move.
But I don't think you want to take your foot off the pedal on the virus itself. You know, one of the reasons we are in the jam we are in is because the president has been so reckless about the advice he has given the American people and the example that he has set.
And you know, sadly, now he has set an example about why those guidelines that his government have issued are so important -- wear a mask, socially distance. I think it's fair for Biden to raise these points.
KING: So take us inside the Biden inner circle if you will from your own experience -- two presidential campaigns. None like this. As you mentioned this has been a year from the very beginning. We had impeachment, we have the pandemic, and we have had so many unpredictable events.
Now you have the president hospitalized heading into the final four weeks of the campaign. What is it like in that room when you're making decisions? Should we travel? How often do we get tested? How much do we release the results of that?
If they can't debate in person should there be an online, some sort of a zoom debate? What is the conversation?
AXELROD: Well, first of all, I think they did make the right decisions pulling down the ads. For some reason, they were hesitant early in the day yesterday to say they would release all their tests. Of course, they should release all theirs tests.
One of the issues here is that the president, you know, there is still some murkiness about the timing of all of that with him. So be transparent and forthright on that issue.
But yes, I would -- I think that they are right to continue to travel. They made the right decision. Just watch your tone. And make yourself available for these debates.
The next debate was going to be a town hall debate which really favored Biden. And it's unlikely that will happen now. Maybe it will.
But, you know, they are in the driver's seat right now. and I think the object here is to be steady as you go and no need to speed. They have got a big advantage on cash which is quite remarkable, given the history of presidential politics that a Democratic challenger should be so well-funded in this race and they can press that advantage on television. They are going to do it with positive ads.
And I'm sure that, you know, there were deliberations about this but they landed in the right place.
[08:54:55]
KING: And we will watch in the sure to be unpredictable four weeks ahead. David Axelrod, grateful for your time and important insights this Sunday.
And that's it for us on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope you can catch us weekdays as well. We're here at 11:00 a.m. and noon Eastern.
Don't go anywhere, a very busy "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER" just ahead. His guests include the Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, Biden campaign senior adviser, Symone Sanders, the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, former Trump deputy campaign chairman back 2016, Rick Gates.
Thanks again for sharing your Sunday. Have a good day and stay safe.
[08:55:23]
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