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Trump Ratchets Up Efforts To Overturn Election; U.S. Surpasses 12 Million COVID Cases As Thanksgiving Holiday Nears; Key Pandemic Relief Programs To Expire At The End Of The Year; Interview With Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Allies Say Trump Knows He Lost But Still Won't Concede; Interview With Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI); President-Elect Biden Prepares Takeover. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired November 22, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:18]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): As the U.S. heads into Thanksgiving week, good news about vaccines, but very bad news about infections.

ALEX AZAR, HHS SECRETARY: The safest way to celebrate Thanksgiving this year is at home with the people you live with.

BASH: A million new cases just this week.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE RESPONSE COORDINATOR: So this is faster. It's broader. And what worries me, it could be longer.

BASH: And two big setbacks for President Trump in his quest to undo the election results.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I won, by the way, but we'll find that out. Almost 74 million votes.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: He will go down in history as one of the most irresponsible presidents.

BASH: Plus, will the holiday season bring much-needed economic relief?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I'm optimistic that we'll have bipartisanship to put something together to go forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (on camera): To our viewers in the United States and around the world, welcome to INSIDE POLITICS. I'm Dana Bash. John King is off today.

The United States is in the midst of a pandemic third wave. For a second straight week, the country added a million new cases, and passed a grim milestone at a quarter of a million deaths.

The news touched the White House with Donald Trump's oldest son becoming the latest in his orbit to test positive for coronavirus.

But the president is focused on assaulting the results of an election lost, taking the chilling step of calling election officials in Wayne County, Michigan, and inviting Michigan state lawmakers to the White House in an apparent attempt to defy their state's voters and select electors who would back Trump.

Now, the president tweeting about the election during the G-20 summit with world leaders yesterday.

As for President-elect Joe Biden, he had his toughest words yet for the man he beat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Let me choose my words here. I think they're witnessing incredible irresponsibility. Incredibly damaging messages being sent to the rest of the world about how democracy functions, and I think it is -- well, I don't know his motive, but I think it's just totally irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: But Trump's attempts to change his loss to a win hit several dead ends this week. First from Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: Like other Republicans, I'm disappointed our candidate didn't win Georgia's electoral votes. Working as an engineer throughout my life, I live by the motto that numbers don't lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Last night, the Trump campaign asked for a recount there. But even Republicans privately do not think that will change the fact that Joe Biden is the first Democrat to win Georgia in nearly three decades. In Michigan, lawmakers posted statement after visiting the White House saying, quote, we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan. As legislative leaders, we will follow the law.

And in another state, set to certify on Monday, that is Pennsylvania, a federal judge dismissed a case. Another one there, by President Trump's legal team seeking to delay certification of Pennsylvania's election results.

Let's talk about all of this with two great White House reporters, Maggie Haberman of "The New York Times" and Toluse Olorunnipa of "The Washington Post".

Good morning, guys. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.

Maggie, starting with you, look, what an extraordinary week of many of extraordinary weeks. I mean, it's pretty hard to use that word anymore, but it fits when you're describing this past week. A sitting president actively trying to change the outcome of an election he lost.

Take us inside the president's mindset at the moment, Maggie.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's incredibly frustrated, Dana. If you watch him, you can see it in the tweets. He's had in the last couple days a series of court losses, some of them pretty excoriating including yesterday from Pennsylvania.

He had his lawyer who asked to lead the effort, Rudy Giuliani, hold a press conference last week, Thursday, that was so calamitous that Giuliani had his hair dye or something running down his face, which the president was focused on that, because he's very much about the optics.

And he did not get what he wanted when he had the Michigan lawmakers come and visit him. What he was hoping for and he often doesn't ask it that overtly in front of people, but he was hoping that things are going to be able to sell them on changing the result, not certifying the results in Michigan. That didn't happen either.

And as lawmakers put out a statement, he is running out of avenues and you're seeing the frustration. I think you would see him continue to do this all the way up until inaugural, but certainly for the next couple weeks until electors are chosen?

BASH: And, Toluse, you write this morning in "The Washington Post" about the president's efforts running into quiet resistance inside those key states.

And you write the following: For the most part, local state officials have either remained silent or moved forward with the process of certifying election results, potentially closing the door to the post- election gambit to change the results, first through the courts and then by way of GOP-led state houses.

This is an important phenomenon which is masked maybe a little bit by the sound of silence here in Washington by national Republicans.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. That's right. The president tried to do what he wants to do by the courts. He wants to overturn the will of the voters and change the election results and determine that he would be the winner. He tried to do it through the courts. He's lost dozens of court cases.

And, as you saw, his avenue closing in the courts, he started to shift toward trying to pressure local and state Republicans in various state houses in some of the swing states that brought them to the White House. Some of the leaders from Michigan, and the effort would essentially try to get them to defy the will of the voters and appoint Trump-supporting electors.

And, you know, even these Republicans in various states are, you know, putting forward left service when it comes to saying, yes, there might have been fraud, there might have been election irregularities, let's look into this, let's open up tip lines, they're not actually following the president's plead when it comes to saying let's delay the certification of the results and try to overrule the will of our voters.

So, there is a bit of resistance. It's very silent, it's very quiet. It's not a courageous resistance, but they are not following the president's lead on the effort to overturn the election results.

BASH: And it's going to be put to the test tomorrow in Michigan which is supposed to certify election results there. I want you to look at -- our viewers to look at the margin of victory in Michigan, 2016 versus 2020. Look at that difference. Joe Biden's margin is 14 times what Donald Trump's victory was in 2016 against Hillary Clinton and yet, Republicans are trying to derail certifying Michigan's vote tomorrow.

Maggie, to you, what are you hearing about whether or not they're going to be successful? We saw the RNC chair, the Michigan chair write a letter to say, please don't certify tomorrow. There could be some monkey business going on there.

HABERMAN: There certainly could be a delay, Dana. And as you said, the Republican National Committee chairman, who was from Michigan, has thrown her weight behind the president in trying to help out with this stuff. Interestingly, she did not attend the meeting with lawmakers on Friday, but she has certainly been connected to this in some way.

We'll have to see what happens. The president is flailing around looking for something that he can call and delay in certifying Michigan would be something you would see him point to regardless if it has an impact. The president has been seeding a lot of disinformation about this election since and before the election took place.

So, you could see a delay. But again, almost to your point, Joe Biden's lead is so much bigger than what Donald Trump was in the same state, in 2016. Joe Biden has won by the same electoral votes and the president continues to claim that something was taken from him.

You are starting to see Republicans break from him. Not a ton, and maybe not a ton before the Georgia runoffs in January, but you are starting to see it.

BASH: Yeah, you are, and on that note, I heard late last week that there was more and more alarm among Republican senators and they were considering more forceful pressure on the president. Last night after a federal judge dismissed the Trump campaign's lawsuit challenging Pennsylvania's results and by the way, the judge did it in a very dismissive way to say the least, it was kind of laughed out of court. Giuliani was.

The GOP senator there, Pat Toomey released a statement saying the following, saying the developments together with the outcomes in the rest of the nation confirm that Joe Biden won the 2020 election and will become the 46th president of the United States. Toluse, Republicans are starting to slowly accept the reality. And they're getting some retribution. The president, of course, tweeted criticizing Toomey after he put out that statement. Not surprisingly.

OLORUNNIPA: Yeah, not surprising. The statement from Toomey shouldn't be surprising. It acknowledges that reality that Biden won. He won in a pretty large margin in various swing states and nationwide with the popular vote. He got a record number of votes. So, it shouldn't be a surprise that Republicans are stating the obvious.

But it is a surprise in some ways that it's been so hard for any of these Republicans to even come out publicly and state the obvious and insert the reality that Joe Biden will be the next president.

[08:10:09]

And when they do so and stick their head up and speak out, they are immediately lashed upon by the president. He attacks on Twitter. He is showing and trying to keep the rest of the party loyal to him by saying that anyone who gets out of line is going to be attacked or driven out of the party.

Now, we know Pat Toomey is preparing to retire in two years. Maybe he's more free to talk. It is really shocking three weeks after the election, so many Republican senators have been silent. They've continued to humor the president and allow him to undermine the Democratic process by saying he won an election that he actually lost.

BASH: Shocking and yet, not shocking, right? Maggie, the president is privately admitting he lost, as you know. He's talking about the fact that this is revenge, I'm told, for the Russia investigation. You have said many times he will never concede.

You and Jonathan Martin write this morning about what's next. The headline is how Trump used to use party machinery to maintain control of the GOP.

What are you learning?

HABERMAN: So, what the president is up to, and I have the same reporting, Dana, he's looking for revenge. When he's asked to concede he says no and points to the 72 million voters he's talking about quite a bit.

Because of those voters, he believes he can try to keep ahold on the Republican National Committee. He's endorsed Ronna McDaniel, continuing on for two more years, possibility phrasing out any challenger she might face. He's about to not have any apparatus.

He built up a campaign and the RNC over the course of the last four years. He's about to be without both of those. He's hoping to lean on the RNC basically as an offshoot of himself, even out of power, which is incredibly unusual for a post-presidency.

Not so unusual for somebody who hasn't been president, but this is unusual, and you're hearing concern. We're hearing concern from some people within the RNC about what this would mean in terms of the party's ability to stay neutral in presidential primaries or frankly, in any primaries where let's say the president wants to take retribution on Mike DeWine or Brian Kemp. Is the RNC going to be able to step back and stay neutral when he's applying pressure?

BASH: It is going to be the real test there, as to whether or not the president's grip on the Republican Party is still as strong as it was when he was president when he is in his post-presidency.

Maggie and Toluse, thank you so much. Great talking to you. Awesome reporting as always. Have a great day.

And up next, the coronavirus surge is straining hospitals. Doctors say Thanksgiving will lead to another spike in cases.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:09]

BASH: More than 1 million Americans tested positive for the coronavirus in the last week. Nearly all 50 states are suffering a surge in cases and rural areas are especially feeling the strain. North Dakota and South Dakota, cases in those two states, they have a combined population of about 1.6 million people, far outpacing cases in all of South Korea with a population of 61 million.

Rising cases means more deaths, and some nurses and doctors on the frontline warn this wave may overwhelm them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KAMMERER, MD, DOCTOR OF FAMILY MEDICINE, REGIONAL HEALTH SERVICES OF HOWARD COUNTY: The biggest concern is when we call and ask for them to help take care of our patient who is are maybe sicker than we're used to taking care of, they don't have beds for us.

DENISE MOURNING, ACUTE CARE NURSE PRACTITIONER, ODESSA REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: Please not another one. You know, it's a prayer. It's inevitable and we know what's going to happen. But the probability of it being a good outcome is very, very low.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here to discuss, Dr. Megan Ranney, emergency room physician and researcher at Brown University, and dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, Dr. Ashish Jha.

Thank you so much for joining me this morning.

More than a million Americans tested positive for coronavirus this week. Dr. Jha, what more can states do at this point to slow the spread?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Good morning, Dana. Thank you for having me on.

You know, some states are starting to take the lead. We saw just in the last week, Michigan, Rhode Island, a few others started to step up and put in what I think are sensible evidence-based restrictions and mitigation efforts, right? Closing bars and restaurants, closing as much or reducing the amount of indoor activity as you can, but leaving K-8 schools open, because that's not a source of spread that we've seen and really pushing for mask mandates a bit harder.

I mean, that set of stuff is a much better approach than a lockdown. And I think will be helpful. But all the states have to do it. It just can't be a few.

BASH: Yeah. And the CDC this week urged Americans to avoid traveling for Thanksgiving. I was one of the Americans who listened, cancelled plans. They said be more concerned about a super spreader event than cooking a dry turkey.

Look at some of the guidelines: Limiting guests to family and neighbors. Having dinner outdoors or near open windows. Sanitizing surfaces. Bringing your own food and requiring masks.

Dr. Ranney, does this go far enough?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: It does almost far enough. Listen, Dana, the safest thing this Thanksgiving is to only do Thanksgiving with your nuclear family. The people that you actually share a House with, because if you think about where spread of this virus happens, it's indoors without masks, over long periods of time.

And that's exactly what Thanksgiving is. We gather around a table.

[08:20:00]

We sit for a couple of hours. We share a drink and some turkey and cranberry sauce without a mask.

If even 1 percent of the 50 million people who are traveling for Thanksgiving transmit or catch this virus, we're looking at an extra 500,000 cases across the country. This is the year to stay home. If you must see people, do so only outdoors and at that safe distance, because you just don't know who is infected.

I can't impress it strongly enough. Our health care system cannot withstand another 500,000 or million infections being caused by Thanksgiving Day.

BASH: Very well said.

So, let's talk about a little bit of good news this week. Pfizer said that at risk populations could receive a vaccine by the end of the year. Dr. Jha, what will the months look like on the vaccine front?

JHA: Yeah, so the news on the vaccines really has been very, very good over the last couple of weeks. And what I expect is Pfizer and hopefully Moderna also will have their vaccines authorized by mid- December.

And then we're going to start getting people vaccinated. Health care workers and first responders first. Into January and February, you're going to see high risk individuals.

And the problem, Dana, is that the next couple of months are going to be really awful from a pandemic point of view. Lots of infections, lots of hospitalizations and lots of deaths. But once vaccinations start getting widespread, things will start getting better. So, people have to hold on a couple months and it will start getting better.

BASH: And, Dr. Ranney, on that, a healthy person is out there watching and listening, OK, things are going to get better, but when can that person expect to be vaccinated and are there distribution concerns there?

RANNEY: There are certainly distribution concerns. You know, we're only going to have about 12.5 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine by the end of the year. And there are going to be challenges in getting both the Pfizer and less so the Moderna vaccine out throughout the country.

The Pfizer vaccine in particular requires a type of cold storage as cold as Antarctica. So, it's not an easy thing to send out into small rural areas. I would expect that most Americans will not be vaccinated until the end of next spring or maybe even next summer.

And, of course, the vaccine is not going to be 100 percent effective. So, until most Americans are vaccinated, we are still going to be looking at mask wearing as a standard for the country. Things are not going to go completely back to normal.

But by next summer, we should be much closer to normal. I'm looking at May or June as when we're all going to be able to take a deep breath and get closer to what we remember the world being like in 2019 (ph).

BASH: I like that end in sight point of view.

Real quick, we're almost out of time, but, Dr. Jha, I got to ask about what you wrote this week about schools and the basic gist of it is that you think that schools are the most safe place for people to be, the safest place for people to be. Why?

JHA: Yeah. So, you know, we've looked at a lot of data over the last few months. Schools have been open in many places, and we're not seeing spread in schools. So, we do think that schools should be the very last places to close and the first places to open.

Of course, there's a lot of benefits of having kids in school as well. So that's why we wrote that piece to try to push policy makers to really focus on keeping schools open.

BASH: I speak for all parents out there, and I'm sure I include you two. We appreciate that and we're glad to hear that very good news about schools.

Always learn so much from both of you. Thank you so much.

JHA: Thank you.

RANNEY: Thank you.

BASH: Up next, House Democratic caucus chair Hakeem Jeffries on whether or not Americans can expect a second coronavirus relief bill before the end of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:16]

BASH: President-elect Joe Biden met with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Pelosi on Friday. Atop the agenda: finally passing a long-stalled coronavirus relief package in a lame duck session.

As America enters the holiday season, upwards of 54 million people are facing food insecurity, and more than half of the 20 million Americans now receiving some form of unemployment benefits will lose that assistance when those federal pandemic programs expire at the end of the year.

In about a month, these key initiatives are scheduled to end, expanded unemployment benefits, student loan payment pause, eviction protection, paid family leave, coronavirus relief funds for states.

With us to discuss whether a federal relief package is on the way and other issues, the chairman of the House Democratic caucus, New York Congressman Hakeem Jeffries.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining me.

Let's start with this question of relief on the way. A lot of people are waiting for it. The House speaker said this week she's optimistic about a new stimulus bill, but as you well know, you need the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell to make that happen.

Where does her optimism come from?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, she's working incredibly hard and we're prepared to stay in Washington for as long as necessary to arrive at a coronavirus pandemic relief package, because as you just described, the situation on the ground requires it. The pain, the suffering and the death being experienced by the American people, the unemployment, the food insecurity, the housing uncertainty, that's not getting better. It's getting worse.

[08:29:55]

That's why House Democrats acted initially in May with the Heroes Act and the acted again on October 1st.

Now Mitch McConnell has seemed to publicly send some messages that he's prepared to do something. It's our hope over the next few weeks when we return to Washington in the aftermath of the Thanksgiving recess that they come to the table with genuineness and authenticity, meaning Senate Republicans, committed to finally getting this done. BASH: I know that that table has not yet been approached in this

round. But still, having said that, what are you promising? What do you believe unemployed Americans who are watching right now, who are about to lose their lifelines, to realistically expect at a bare minimum?

JEFFRIES: Well we need to extend out the eligibility for unemployment. That's the deadline that's getting ready to expire. And we need to renew the enhanced $600 per week emergency unemployment insurance benefit. That is the benefit that expired because Republicans allowed it to on August 1st.

We need to renew that and make it retroactive back to August 1st and then, of course, extend the eligibility into next year. Because this is a once-in-a-century pandemic it requires a once-in-a-century response.

The other challenge that we face quite honestly is that President Trump is missing in action. He seems to have quit on the American people. It's an extraordinary thing to witness.

Hopefully when he sees House Democrats and Senate Republicans negotiating as we are currently on a new spending agreement so we can avoid a government shutdown, and I'm very confident we're going to reach a meaningful and robust spending agreement, that will lay the foundation for then transitioning to completing the negotiations on the COVID-19 relief package.

BASH: But let me ask you -- the president might be missing but his treasury secretary made a comment this week and actually said that the Fed should return unused funds from stimulus programs set to expire at the end of the year. Mitch McConnell in the Senate says he supports it. What's your take?

JEFFRIES: It's an irresponsible decision as indicated by the president-elect and the incoming Biden administration. We should repurpose the funds.

I think that the wealthy and the well-off, the mega corporations, they're doing just fine, but small and medium-sized businesses, mom and pop shops, family-owned businesses, black-owned businesses, women- owned businesses, minority-owned businesses are struggling. More than 100,000 small businesses have permanently closed in the midst of this pandemic.

And as we enter into this intensifying winter wave, it's clear they're going to need additional relief. And so I think -- I certainly believe that repurposing the unspent money is the right thing to do for American businesses, particularly small businesses who have been hit incredibly hard and the heart and soul of the economy.

BASH: Let me ask you about what's going on right now with President Trump. A big part of his campaign's unsubstantiated claims is about fraud inside Democratic-run cities.

For example, this is a tweet that he sent out this past week. "In Detroit, there are far more votes than people. Nothing can be done to cure that giant scam." When you see that, what goes through your mind?

JEFFRIES: The scam that has been perpetrated on the American people for the last four years is Donald Trump's presidency. That's the scam. And he's in the midst of a massive meltdown right now, it's extraordinary.

The biggest problem that we confront as a country right now is that many mainstream so-called Republican leaders are going along with it. The party of Lincoln is gone. The party of Reagan is gone. The party of McCain is gone.

The cult of Trump is here. Many of us thought it would go away. It's here to stay, apparently. And that's -- that's frightening for our democracy.

BASH: How do you work across the aisle? I mean, I know people don't see it, but it does exist. How do you work across the aisle starting next year if the party of Trump is still there as you describe it?

Well, I'm very confident and optimistic in the leadership of president-elect Joe Biden. He has indicated appropriately on multiple occasions that he's going to be the president for those Americans who voted for him and those Americans who voted against him because he's going to be the president for everyone.

He also brings decades of relationships in the United States Senate with Mitch McConnell and people on the other side of the aisle.

[08:34:55]

JEFFRIES: And hopefully once we get past January 20th, many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, other side of the Capitol, will gain some perspective about working with the new president, the new vice president who they also have a relationship with, and of course the House, to get things done for everyday Americans.

BASH: Yes. And you're going to have your work cut out for you in trying to balance your own caucus which is very diverse ideologically. We can talk about that another time because we're almost out of time.

But I have to ask you about Nancy Pelosi. She was elected by the Democrats for another term as House Speaker this week. She confirmed it's going to be her last with the gavel. Do you want to be next?

JEFFRIES: No. I want to do is get to tomorrow and then get to the next day and then get to January 20th and ensure that President Donald Trump leaves office and we can get to the smooth transition of power so we can begin to get things done on behalf of Americans who are struggling.

I have a job to do, as you know, as chair of the House Democratic caucus. It's an important job in the context of making sure that we bring all of our diverse voices together to build back better and fight for the people.

I'm always of the view, you have to do the job that you have and then let the rest take care of itself. One speaker at a time and we have an extraordinary one in Nancy D'Alesandro Pelosi.

BASH: I had a feeling your answer would be something along those lines. I'll get back to you, I don't know, this time in two years or maybe even this times next year.

Thank you so much for joining me this morning, Congressman. I appreciate it.

JEFFRIES: Thank you very much.

BASH: Thank you.

In Michigan, Congressman Fred Upton is one of a handful of Republicans lawmakers acknowledging President-Elect Joe Biden has won the White House. He joins me next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: The president refuses to admit that he lost. Even though nothing about this is normal, the GOP leadership in Congress insists this is normal and most rank and file are silently enabling the president's false fraud claims.

But then President Trump made an unprecedented power play to block the certification process in Michigan. Tactics that prompted some veteran lawmakers to speak out.

One of them is our guest, Michigan Congressman Fred Upton. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

Congressman, the president called two members of the Wayne County Board of Elections in your state, invited two top Michigan lawmakers from the state legislature to the White House this week.

This is a state you represent. Are the president's actions at all appropriate?

[08:39:59]

REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): Well, you know what, the voters have spoken. I mean here in Michigan 154,000 vote margin by President-Elect Biden, no one has come up with any evidence of fraud or abuse.

All 83 counties now have certified their own election results. Those will be officially tabulated or they should be tomorrow. We expect that that process moves forward and let the voters, not the politicians, speak.

BASH: Does it concern you what the president is trying to do? I mean do you see it as trying to subvert what you just described?

UPTON: Well, you know, I wasn't party to the discussions that he had with some of our state legislators. And one of them is one of my state senators. But you know, they came away from that meeting in a public statement

and said in essence that they weren't going to be bullied. That the process is going to move forward, and they weren't going to deny or stay -- stop -- stay in the way of blocking that official certification.

So you know, whatever happened -- transpired in that White House meeting, our state legislators acted I think correctly based on what they said when they came out of the meeting Friday afternoon.

BASH: And the pressure though is not going away, as you know. I'm sure you saw the Michigan Republican chair and the Republican National Committee chairwoman put a letter out requesting that there's a delay, a 14-day delay in certifying Michigan's results which is supposed to happen tomorrow as you mentioned. What's your response to that?

UPTON: Well, you know, that's just a little bit out of bounds. You got to -- for the process to work, you got to have the official certification by the state board of canvassers. All that's in play.

No one has come up with any evidence of any fraud. No one has found a pickup truck with a bunch of ballots in the back. The job is to in essence right now officially count all of those 83, make sure that the numbers are tabulated correctly. Put the stamp of approval on it and then move forward.

And a 14-day delay doesn't help any. And frankly, we have to get back to governing. As you know, with the GSA not officially certifying the election, it's thrown a lot of sand in the gears of allowing for the transition to take place.

We have enormous problems right now. We're on the cusp of having an FDA-approved vaccine. And we want to see how that's going to be distributed particularly to our health care workers.

We've got to get, as Hakeem just said and I watched a little bit earlier this morning -- we have to get the PPP, the Paycheck Protection Program moving again to help our small businesses.

We have to show leadership, and we have to have what is normally viewed across the globe as a peaceful transition of power. And for that to allow to happen, you've got to have this process work with the people engaged so that, in fact, it can be peaceful and we can make sure that things occur in the proper fashion.

BASH: Which means that you -- it sounds like you're confident that the results will be certified in Michigan tomorrow as the law prescribes? Because there's a lot of, you know, talk behind the scenes that the Republicans there might try to scuttle it in some way, shape, or form.

UPTON: Well, I hope that it is. I mean, again, if you look at it on the surface, I mean, this is not a -- you know, four years ago the president won Michigan by about 10,700 (ph) votes. No one challenged that. It was all said and done.

You know, we've had a pretty good vote system here for a lot of years. They keep the ballots. They're accurately tabulated. I know a number of any -- certainly in my local board of canvasser, all my county clerks, there's never been any excuse of a fraudulent election that certainly that I can recall.

Now all 83 counties have done that and it's time to move forward so that the process can be official.

BASH: I want to just put this in context also. And as I do, I want you to listen to an argument that a member of the president's legal team made this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNEY POWELL, TRUMP ATTORNEY: The entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You won your Michigan district, Congressman, by 16 points earlier this month. You are in a swing state. When you hear the president's attorney saying she wants to overturn those results, what's your reaction?

[08:44:52]

UPTON: You know, the voters spoke. And here again in Michigan, it's not a razor-thin margin. It's 154,000 votes. You got to let those votes stand.

People know the process. They knew our absentee, I voted absentee, so did my wife, so did my parents, so did my brother and his wife. The process has been in place for a long time. It works.

And there's no issues of fraud anywhere. So 154,000 votes. I mean we had -- at a county commission race, my own county commission race was a dead even tie. They're having a draw to see who won because it was exactly the same. 154,000 votes is what they need to overcome. I mean it's over.

BASH: It sounds like you are agreeing with what some Republicans are starting to say including someone like Trevor Potter who was the FEC chair as a Republican. That there's concern that this is destabilizing for the basics of democracy. Are you there?

UPTON: Well, here's what the issue is. The longer this lasts, languishes, the time then escapes from us from actually seeing a peaceful transition to the next administration.

By not allowing the security briefings, the health briefings, the normal transition from one president to the next only brings about more uncertainty and threatens that peaceful transition that would otherwise -- that would certainly undermine then, the next administration.

We're Americans. We need this process to work. This time from the November 3rd until January 20th, traditionally has been one that allows the two candidates to shake hands, to figure out what the transition is going to be, to make sure that the American people, those not in the government, are in fact, benefitted because of that transition.

And when you slow it down, when you fail to certify the results, when you add all this uncertainty, it only makes it very problematic then for the next administration to start with the feet hitting the ground.

BASH: And real quick, yes or no. Is there anything you can do as a Republican, Congressman, to get the GSA to start the transition moving?

UPTON: Well, probably not. I mean, I'm just -- you know, but I'd like to say too, a number of our leadership have spoken up. You saw Liz Cheney's statement. She's number three in our organization. You've seen a number of senators.

You know, when we get the official certification tomorrow, that's just another major step forward to hopefully allow this process to move forward in a manageable way.

BASH: Congressman Upton, I appreciate you coming on. And I'm pretty confident that the way that you spoke this morning is going to start to make people feel a lot better about the country and about where it is right now. Thank you so much.

UPTON: Thank you. Thanks. Have a great Thanksgiving.

BASH: Thanks. You, too.

And up next, President-Elect Biden's administration starts to take shape and it could be the most diverse ever.

[08:48:20]

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BASH: The Trump administration continues to block the official presidential transition. Still President-Elect Joe Biden schedule is focused on the crisis he will inherit on January 20th when he is sworn in.

In just the last week an economic speech, meetings with nurses, governors and congressional leaders. Can Biden be prepared to take over on day one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: There is no excuse not to share the data and let us begin to plan because on day one, it's going to take us time if we don't have access to all of this data. It's going to put us behind the 8-ball by a matter of a month or more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here with us to discuss is Jackie Kucinich of "The Daily Beast". Thank you, so much, Jackie. Good morning.

So it has been two weeks --

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": Good morning.

BASH: -- since Joe Biden won the election. So far, he and his team are staying out of the transition fight, for the most part. They are not drawing up lawsuits for lots of reasons.

But Biden himself, says it's slowing down critical coronavirus planning. It seems that he is pushing ahead with what he can do. What are you hearing from your sources in the transition?

KUCINICH: Well, you're absolutely right. And one of the things and I know CNN reported it -- reported this, they are trying to talk to congressional staff that know these issues in terms of transitioning, trying to back channel that way since they can't talk to the administration.

But to the extent to which this administration is blocking the incoming Biden administration from getting this critical information even HHS, they are not allowed to talk to the Biden folks in order to get them up-to-speed.

And that could -- from day one, this could slow down things like vaccine distribution. Things that are very critical to Americans right on the onset as this transition of power is going to happen. It's all over but for the whining.

And the fact that the Trump administration continues to drag its feet is hurting no one but the American people at the end of the day.

BASH: Yes. All over but the whining is very apt way to put it, Jackie.

So Joe Biden has pledged to appoint a cabinet that is representative of all Americans. We have a list of officials that we believe he is considering. It is a big list, you know, several options for the top spots. So given what we know about where he could be heading, is he upholding that promise? And talk about the sort of difficulty -- not a difficulty, but the challenge he has in trying to please everybody.

KUCINICH: And therein lies the problem, right? because he is not going to please everyone. I think when you look at the people who have already been put in senior positions.

[08:44:54]

KUCINICH: One of the common things you're seeing with each of them are these are the people Biden is comfortable with, people he knows, people he's worked with for a long time.

And I think you're going to see that throughout the cabinet. Yes, he will work to make sure it's diverse but ideologically I think the left might end up being a little disappointed and you're already hearing some complaints in them. Someone like a Cedric Richmond (ph) who was brought in as senior staff, the congressman from Louisiana. They're not -- you heard some grumbling on the left about some of his ties to big oil as a congressman.

So that is going to the continue. Because they are some very big asks from the left wing considering the power that they lent to Biden to get him over the line. They didn't really, after Bernie Sanders dropped out, you really didn't hear a lot of complaints from the left. They really fell in line which is not normal.

BASH: Well, speaking of Bernie Sanders --

KUCINICH: Yes.

BASH: -- speaking of Bernie Sanders --

KUCINICH: Right.

BASH: -- it's been remarkable to watch him openly campaign for the job of labor secretary. Is that the answer to the concerns of the progressives, put Bernie Sanders in the cabinet?

That is definitely something they want for sure. Whether that happens or not, that is, I mean -- it's up to the Biden campaign -- or the Biden transition which, you know, we know that, obviously.

However, I don't think that will be the end of the (INAUDIBLE) even if Bernie Sanders does get to lead the Department of Labor. I don't think they're going to be like ok, well, we can go home now, climate change is over. You know what I mean?

So I really think that -- their list is long and they are not going to be quiet about getting what they want and who they want in positions of power in the Biden administration.

BASH: Which is understandable. They were very good soldiers during the general election campaign and now it's time to ask the questions after they help Joe Biden get elected.

Jackie, thank you so much for your insights and your reporting. Appreciate it.

That is it for INSIDE POLITICS. Hope you can catch the show weekdays as well at noon eastern.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER". His guests included chief scientific adviser on Operation Warp Speed, Dr. Moncef Slaoui, Jen Psaki a senior member of the Biden transition, and former national security advisor John Bolton, as well as Maryland Governor Larry Hogan.

Thanks so much for watching.

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