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Inside Politics

Biden Emphasizes "Urgency" Of Quick Action On COVID Relief Bill; McCarthy Defends Moves To Protect Cheney And Greene; Biden Doesn't Expect $15 Minimum Wage To Survive In Relief Bill; Interview With Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI); Biden To Use Super Bowl To Get Out Message On COVID-19 And Vaccines. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired February 07, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:38]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice-over): The president says a faltering economy makes his rescue bill more urgent than ever.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I see enormous pain in this country, so I'm going to act. I'm going to act fast.

PHILLIP: But he shouldn't expect any GOP support.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): It will not serve Americans to pile another huge mountain of debt on our grandkids.

PHILLIP: We will discuss with top House Democrat Debbie Dingell.

Plus, who holds the power in today's Republican Party?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): The base is loyal to President Trump and the base has been very loyal to me.

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): We're going to have to choose between conservatism and madness. Politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude.

PHILLIP: And COVID vaccinations are speeding up.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The number of doses that are going to be available are going to be greatly accelerated.

PHILLIP: But will Super Bowl Sunday be a super-spreader event?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP (on camera): Welcome to "INSIDE POLITICS" on this snowy Washington Sunday, I'm Abby Phillip.

To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. Eleven months into the COVID recession here in the United States the numbers remain stark. The latest jobs report out on Friday showed that 10 million Americans are unemployed, another 6 million have managed to find only part-time work and 7 million more want a job but have given up finding one.

Those statistics and the real people and families they represent are why President Biden says this country needs the biggest economic relief in American history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: A lot of folks are losing hope.

We can reduce suffering in this country. We can put people back to work. We can control -- gain control of this virus. That's what the American rescue plan does. And that's what I'm determined to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Congress took a major procedural step last week to quicken the final passage and to do it in a way that would only require Democratic votes. Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants a bill on the president's desk by early March and Friday, Biden made his position clear. He said if he has to choose between speed and bipartisanship, he will choose speed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He didn't run on a promise to unite the Democratic and Republican Party into one party in Washington. This package has the vast majority of support from the American public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And a top House Democrat echoed that point, never confuse bipartisanship with unconditional surrender. That was caucus chair, Hakeem Jeffries, who tweeted that yesterday.

And Republicans who met with President Biden last week hoping to hammer out a deal say that in that case count them out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): If it goes forward without any changes from what was originally proposed I would predict that not a single Republican will support the $1.9 trillion plan.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I think his staff is letting him down, but I will point out, multiple COVID relief packages were passed under President Trump with the Republican Senate which were bipartisan and, all of a sudden, it can't be done bipartisan?

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: And joining me now with their reporting and analysis, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, Julie Hirschfeld Davis of "The New York Times", and ADP chief economist Nela Richardson.

Thank you all for being here this morning.

So, Kaitlan, I want to start with you. There is obviously as you saw in those clips some opposition to the go big approach from Republicans, but there's also some opposition from within President Biden's own party.

So what's the White House's plan to sell this relief bill this week?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you saw last week how they were trying to do that and then by the end of the week, it really came to this conclusion from President Biden when he gave that speech, basically that they are going to go this alone without Republicans. So they've continued to insist that they want it to be a bipartisan bill, but you are not seeing any congressional Republicans sign on to this.

Whether or not that changes and they can win over some moderates now that President Biden is conceding he doesn't believe that $15 medical minimum wage is going to be included, that's another question, but another thing they know is that this week all of the attention is going to be on President Trump's impeachment trial and so while they've said it's not going to hinder their agenda, they know that it's very much going to be a factor in all of it.

PHILLIP: Yeah, there is no question about it. It's hard for Washington to walk and chew gum at the same time.

And, Julie, you know, President Biden on Friday was very pointed in saying that he didn't think Republicans were willing to do what it takes to help struggling Americans.

[08:05:08]

So have Democrats just given up on this idea of winning even a handful of Republican votes for this $1.9 trillion package?

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Listen, I think that President Biden still really hopes to do that. I think part of what we're going to see in the next week or two is a lot of modifications, maybe around the edges to this package, in efforts to try to get some of them on board. There's already talk of tailoring the direct payments to lower income earners, something a lot of Democrats are worried about, but obviously a lot of the Republicans who have signaled a willingness to work with the president on this have said they want to see.

So the question is can they add enough of those things in, can they incorporate enough of the ideas that moderate Democrats have offered to get one or two of them on board. I think they would like to be able to say that this is a bipartisan package, but like you said you did hear the president be very clear on Friday, and he's been pretty clear in the run up to that statement saying, you know, he is not going to forego what he thinks needs to be in this bill in the spirit of bipartisanship. He's not going to sacrifice what he thinks is an urgent response just to get a couple of Republican votes.

He's been through this experience before and they've been pretty disappointed with the results when they've waited and waited, oftentimes fruitlessly to get Republican buy-in for some of these big, bold, economic ideas that they think are needed.

PHILLIP: Nela, lay out the big picture for us. I want to bring up this chart of job losses during the great recession versus the job losses over the last year. 22 million people lost their jobs in the first months of the pandemic and even after the months of job gain that we have seen the question is still 10 million jobs in the hole. The economy was never 10 million jobs down during the great recession in 2008 and 2009 and there's basically been no significant job growth since October.

So what does all of this tell you about what is actually necessary to get us out of this ditch?

NELA RICHARDSON, ADP CHIEF ECONOMIST: Well, Abby, the numbers don't lie. The labor market recovery is stalling. It's actually stalling the economic growth recovery. The reason is because this has been a K- shaped recovery meaning those who are hit hardest tend to be low income, they are the small businesses.

So, when you think about relief, it's not the size of the --

PHILLIP: Yes --

RICHARDSON: -- but the direction of the arrow that matters. That it's targeted to those communities, those businesses and those workers who are feeling the burden of the pandemic, even as the greater economy, the broader economy, is still recovering. The labor market recovery is stalling.

PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, I think the issue is targeting, I think that's what it seems that everyone is grappling with right now.

But, Kaitlan, you know, just getting something through is also the other big issue here and the White House is trying to adjust the definition of what bipartisanship even means. They say that if it doesn't get any Republican votes in Congress the plan does have bipartisan support among voters.

And two thirds of Americans, including a third of Republicans, do say that they like the $1.9 trillion bill and they especially like those $1,400 checks, even two thirds of Republicans say they like those checks, but that is not how the Biden campaign defined bipartisanship when he was running for president, is it?

COLLINS: No, and that's why this is this question, because that is something he relied on time and time again which is that I spent three decades in the Senate, I can cut deals with Republicans, there is going to be this sense of unity. That was something that they talked about.

So you have seen the White House try to turn that definition and say, well, if Republican voters are supporting this bill, but that is not going to be bipartisanship at the end of the day when you look at the votes on Capitol Hill when they actually try to get this through.

And I think the other thing to consider here is that they're trying to move very quickly on this where Speaker Pelosi told us on Friday when they came out to the White House after that meeting in the oval office that they are going to start drafting the legislation this week. She thinks they can get it to the Senate's hands within two weeks and maybe even have all of this done by the end of the month.

So, they're trying to move quickly here and it seems they had those few overtures to Republicans, they invited them into the Oval Office, but other than that, you're not seeing them come down on the big numbers that Republicans want to see them change, which is the top line number of $1.9 trillion, the targeting the stimulus checks, that is the big question where there could be some compromise because Biden has said he is willing to do that.

So, the other thing is the jobless benefits going through September or going through this summer. So those are the things that Biden has said he is not moving on. That's what Republicans said they want him to move on in order to sign on to this bill. If that's not happening it's not likely that you are going to see any Republicans get on board if it stays as it is right now.

PHILLIP: Nela, I want to get your take on this because this week, Larry Summers, who was Bill Clinton's treasury secretary and Barack Obama's chief economic adviser, wrote an op-ed saying if you are going to have a $2 trillion bill, more of it should be focused on long-term investments.

[08:10:06]

He's arguing effectively that the bill may be even more than the economy needs right now for the immediate crisis. He doesn't think the economy needs that much short-term relief but it might need long-term stimulus. What do you think about that debate that he kind of sparked with that op-ed?

RICHARDSON: Well, you know, it's a broader debate than the op-ed, the size of the fiscal deficit, but first point I'd like to make here is that fiscal spending has been critical to the economic recovery so far, it's been critical to those 2.7 million jobs that were produced in June during the peak job gain.

So we can't deny that fiscal stimulus is important. With this $2 trillion plan, though, that brings the fiscal spending to $5 trillion and so those long-term investments, not just relief in the short term, but long-term gains, do we want to bring back low income jobs or do we want to bring back better jobs by retooling skills, by investing in broadband to solve the digital divide in rural and urban communities. There's bipartisan support for that as well as infrastructure spending. So this is a time not only to, you know, provide the economy with

relief, but really think in a bipartisan way about those investments that not only help people in the short term, but help the economy increase its productive capacity in the long term. It's really an opportunity that I hope Congress seizes.

PHILLIP: And, Julie, I want to get to a little bit of a different topic, but a really critically important one. The Biden administration this week has announced a slew of initiatives to speed up vaccines, promote better behavior, mask wearing, but the issue about schools is so critical.

Most experts are saying that you can reopen schools, that it's safe to reopen schools right now, and there is not much evidence of the virus spreading in classrooms and that teachers are at low risk even if they haven't been vaccinated, but the administration seems to be all over the place on this, frankly, and can't get their story straight.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: There is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated.

PSAKI: Dr. Walensky spoke to this in her personal capacity, obviously she is the head of the CDC, but we're going to wait for the final guidance to come out so we can use that as a guide for schools around the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: We are expecting that CDC guidance to come out this week but it seems that Dr. Walensky was pretty clear. Why is the White House having so much trouble answering this question?

HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Well, I mean, listen, I think this is one of the critical questions that is on the minds of a lot of Americans. You mentioned earlier that they've cited the polls in terms of public support for this stimulus. They also I'm sure can see that the public is very much in favor of -- people want their schools open, people want their kids to be able to go back to school and that crosses party lines and that's -- you know, that's a pretty widespread belief and desire.

So I think it's been very difficult for the Biden administration to figure out where to land on this. They have a lot of considerations. Of course, Dr. Walensky was talking about data that they do have. They don't have all the data and there are also other considerations. There's been a lot of push back from teachers unions, a lot of push back from some parents, frankly, to the idea of wide reopening of schools and worries about the risks involved there.

And so, I think they're trying to be really careful and go really slowly but they're already getting a ton of pressure from Republicans in Congress. If you have noticed the last couple of weeks there's been a steady drum beat from Senator Mitch McConnell, the minority leader in the Senate, from other Republicans on the House side as well, they are all hitting the Biden administration on reopen our schools, reopen our schools, and it's because it's one of the most salient topics and a really difficult one to figure out in a safe way.

So, I think they're trying to wait until the guidance is complete, but people are continuing to put pressure on them to come down with a clear position because they certainly haven't put one out so far.

PHILLIP: And after campaigning on letting the science speak, this seems to be one of those clear areas where the science should be allowed to speak for them on what the position ought to be.

Julie, Nela and Kaitlan, thank you for being with us this morning.

And up next, whose party is it anyway? House Republicans struggle to navigate a post-Trump Washington, D.C.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:19:07]

PHILLIP: A week after warring words over the future of the GOP, 11 House Republicans voted with every Democrat to remove conspiracy theorist Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee assignments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR GREENE: There were 11 that voted against me yesterday and that -- that's something that our leaders should be very upset about. That really is a big betrayal and that could cost us the majority in '22.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Then yesterday, Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney, the number three House GOP leadership, was censured by her state party for voting to impeach former President Donald Trump last month.

That makes Cheney the latest to join a club of Republicans punished for crossing Trump.

And in the center of it all, Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy who is trying to have it both ways. He backed Cheney against some Trump allies who wanted to remove her from leadership but also voted against punishing Greene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:20:06]

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-KY): This Republican Party is a very big tent, everyone is invited in and you look at the last election, we continue to grow and in two years, we'll be the majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And back with me now CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Astead Herndon of "The New York Times."

So, Kaitlan, we reported here at CNN last week that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is pleased with how he handled Congresswoman Greene's floor vote and Congresswoman Cheney's vote this week, but former President Trump is furious with McCarthy for backing Cheney.

What have we learned last week about who holds the power in the Republican Party? At the end of the day is it Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene or is it Kevin McCarthy.

COLLINS: Well, I think you're seeing how Kevin McCarthy is playing this role and trying to make sure they keep everyone inside of this, whether that's the Marjorie Taylor Greene faction of the party because they know that is a strong part of it given the fact she still enjoys the endorsement and support of President Trump or the Liz Cheney side which maintained McCarthy's support. Liz Cheney survived that vote and attempt by Trump loyalists to oust her from her leadership position, she enjoyed a pretty handily victory. So I think that's the question here.

We're seeing President Trump from afar at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida, he is still keeping tabs on all of this and has been furious with Liz Cheney probably as much as anyone. He -- I was told by sources he is repeatedly trashing her and checking in on what was going to happen on Capitol Hill as there was this back and forth happening. I do think when Marjorie Taylor Greene gave that press conference the following day and this is still Trump's party she is correct in that sense.

But the other question is that what we saw as a result of the 2020 election was Republicans were hemorrhaging support from suburban women and those more moderate voters. So the question of which direction this leads them is going to be the big one. So, Kevin McCarthy is sounding confident about retaking the House in 2022. There is a good chance that they can do that. So, that's going to consist of walking this line up until then.

PHILLIP: Also walking this line, Kaitlan, are Senate Republicans who are distancing themselves from Congresswoman Greene. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): I've never seen anything quite like this. The anti-Semitism, school shootings weren't real. I mean, she runs the gamut, the idea that forest fires are started by Jewish lasers. So profound, so far out there it does make me wonder how she got elected.

CASSIDY: She discredits the conservative movement and as far as I'm concerned she is not in my tent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Okay. But they are also about to acquit the former president after he was impeached for inciting an insurrection. So what's going on here?

COLLINS: That's a very good question. I mean, they are truly forced on this split right here where Senate Republicans of course are going to further their loyalties and their agenda are a little bit different than what you're seeing with House Republicans, but they are taking this step with President Trump where they're not really making arguments about his role that he played in the riot, but instead are making arguments about process because he's out of office, they are saying it is not going to set a good precedent to convict and remove a president and, of course, bar him from running from office again now that he's out of office, basically saying he is this problem.

So I think it's still a big question of what's going to happen this week because, of course, things can always change with President Trump, they often do, and so, for example, with this offer from Democrats for him to come and testify, which his lawyers quickly rejected but we know that when the actual impeachment vote was going on in January, we were told President Trump was interested in going to the house floor to make his argument for himself.

The idea that that could have happened again this week, we heard from Republicans who said it wasn't a good idea because basically they were concerned that if President Trump came, if he was talking about election fraud, not talking about the constitutionality of removing a president who has already left office, they said that could actually make things really messy.

PHILLIP: Yeah, I think that would be an understatement. So, Astead, at least seven Republicans have been censured or condemned by state and local Republican parties for either supporting former president Trump's impeachment or for criticizing his rhetoric around the insurrection, but what are the Republican Party dynamics that you're seeing happening across the country? What are Washington insiders missing about whether this debate about whether Trump is the leader of the party or not, you know, what do people out in the country really think about that?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I mean, I think that this is the critical point. This is the Republican Party that has -- is not kind of torn between a decision between Trumpism or not, but is really looked into that and that's from the base level. What you are seeing is a Washington, D.C. that understands that the base is with Donald Trump, is with Marjorie Taylor Greene and is facing the pressures from that point.

[08:25:06]

The reason why you have seven out of the ten Republicans who voted for impeachment already censured is because that base still feels loyal to the former president and to the ideology that he has espoused. So that is going to be the central tension of the party even as Washington tries to kind of rest back control of the party from, if you want to call it the conspiratorial or Marjorie Taylor Greene wing, it's bigger than that. You know, Donald Trump is someone who came up in the Republican Party as the birtherism and as a figure of that. And so, this is going to be the real core dynamics within it as they

go forward not only to the midterms but into the next Republican nomination. Whose party is it can be an open question in Washington, but this is really about kind of a base that is set on a vision of Republicanism, that is more close to Taylor Greene and Donald Trump than it is to Liz Cheney and Kevin McCarthy.

PHILLIP: Yeah, this isn't an evolution of Trump, this is kind of how he started the whole thing.

Astead, you know, one of the lawmakers who is pushing back on some of this is Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse. He's a long time critic of former President Trump but he told his state GOP this ahead of their vote to censure him. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SASSE: You are welcome to censure me again, but let's be clear about why this is happening. It's because I still believe as you used to that politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude. The party could purge Trump skeptics, but I'd like to convince you that not only is that civic cancer for the nation, it's just terrible for our party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So he's from a deep -- he's from a deep red state and is, as he said, trying to convince his party to back away from Trumpism. But what do you think the play really is here and does he even stand a chance?

HERNDON: Yeah, I mean, that's the kind of critical point here is that like he is asking the party to kind of keep space for anti-Trump critics and that's not something that some folks are interested in. So, it's a kind of -- it's a kind of core question of the kind of big tent that we talk about within the kind of both Democratic and Republican Party because there is increasingly no space for kind of anti-Trump critics even within the Republican Party.

I mean, let's make no mistake here, Ben Sasse is not a liberal. You know, he is a clear kind of conservative and Republican, it's just not someone who has the same view as Trumpism as conservativism and that's not -- that's not something that has a lot of space within the party right now.

And so, you're seeing the Ben Sasses of the world, the Mitt Romneys of the world, the Lisa Murkowskis try to push back, but this is something that that has festered in the party for so long that they're having a real difficulty doing that.

It is going to be an uphill battle to say that the Republicanism should have space for all of these ideologies when for years and years building up to this that's not been something they've been willing to allow.

PHILLIP: Well, Astead and Kaitlan, thank you for being here this morning, this is a conversation we will have having for quite some time.

And coming up, the historic second impeachment trial of Donald Trump.

But, first, a former QAnon follower said the president could have avoided the insurrection if he would have come out and said the conspiracy theory was a lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY VANDERBILT, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: I thought the world of him. If he would have said that's not real, I'm not coming back, it is over, I would have believed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:06]

PHILLIP: President Joe Biden is using the anemic January jobs report to call for quick action on his coronavirus relief proposal and a Super Bowl Sunday interview has some revealing hints about what he thinks will be in that final package.

Maybe fewer people getting $1,400 checks and no minimum wage increase.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Apparently that's not going to occur because of the rules of United States Senate.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS HOST: So you're saying the minimum wage won't be in this?

BIDEN: My guess is it will not be in it.

I put it in, but I don't think it's going to survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining us now a top Democrat and member of the Bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus, Michigan Congresswoman Debbie Dingell.

Congresswoman Dingell, thank you for being here this morning.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Good morning. It's good to be with you.

PHILLIP: So Congresswoman, progressives are not happy about the minimum wage potentially being dropped from this package but they also aren't happy about the potential of raising the income threshold for who gets these stimulus checks.

Senator Bernie Sanders tweeted last night "In these difficult times all working class people deserve the full $1,400. Last I heard someone, making $55,000 a year is not rich." Is he right about that? DINGELL: You know, he is right and I'm very concerned about -- we

don't know the details. Again, people are still speculating. You know the old saying, people with weak stomachs shouldn't watch sausage or laws being made.

But the fact of the matter is I have people that work at the University of Michigan that have been lab assistants whose income was much higher a year ago and they're making zero now and yet it's based on a taxable level. We need to figure out how we are really helping those that need help.

And when it comes to the minimum wage I am going to be one of the loudest screamers about it. The fact of the matter is if you look at who has kept us together these last almost a year now since COVID hit, it's people we haven't thought were worth paying $15 an hour.

We need to pay people what their worth is and their worth in this society means they should be paying a minimum wage that keeps them below the poverty line -- above the poverty line. Above --

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Right.

DINGELL: -- above the poverty line.

PHILLIP: And you have said that Joe Biden is the right man for this particular moment, that he knows the senate, knows how to reach across the aisle, something that's important to you as someone who is on that Problem Solvers Caucus.

But Senator Joe Manchin has been vocal about his concerns about the size of the bill and he has also criticized President Biden for seeming to abandon bipartisanship. You know, is he -- is he wrong about that? I mean, it does seem like Democrats are moving forward with or without Republican votes.

[08:34:50]

DINGELL: So Joe Manchin is a very good friend of mine, you know that the president is a good friend. He does want to work across the aisle. 10 senators asked to meet with him last Sunday, a week ago, they were in that Oval Office within 24 hours. They had good discussions.

But you cannot let -- you can't stop. There is a real need. If you are out, you come to my home state of Michigan, people are hurting. They are in desperate trouble and have been because they haven't thought that anybody cared. We need a COVID relief package.

The state and local governments have been in desperate need of help for almost a straight year. We continue the need to get more vaccine out there, to do more testing, to help small businesses.

Our restaurants are already closing every day. We have got to get a bill done. We can't let politics become the enemy of the good. We want them there. We're going to try to work with them. We're listening. Their input is there, but we've got to get a bill done. And it's time to stop screwing around and get help out there for people who need it.

PHILLIP: On a slightly different topic, but really on the issue of whether you can work across the aisle, this week we've been hearing a lot about Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congresswoman from Georgia, and her fight to retain her committee assignments.

And the GOP co-chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus that you are on as well, Congressman Tom Reed said he actually believed her apologies in the conference meeting even though, you know, she gave some pretty weak apologies for vague statements not for the specific things that she actually claimed.

Is it really the case that moderate Republicans are turning a blind eye to the kind of behavior that she espoused in order to keep people like her in the GOP tent? In other words, are they willing to tolerate anything in order to keep winning?

DINGELL: So I'm going to say something. Life is complicated. I've had a long talk with Tom. I'm concerned about -- my biggest concern was her serving on the Education Committee when she stalked one of the young men that was a survivor of the parkland shooting.

I had long talks with Fred Upton who was one of my best friends in the Congress, a Republican from Michigan. I did not see her come to the floor and apologize. She defended some of her positions, the statements, the tweets that she did the day after. But we have had some very honest and tough conversations.

I'm not going to stop talking to Republicans and Republicans aren't going to stop talking to me. We need to do more talking to each other, more listening. I often say God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason.

And If we can build trust, if we can listen to other people's perspective, maybe we will start going back to the way it used to be that you could come together and compromise on legislation.

I think last week was a very tough week for the House. I think it was a tough week for the caucus. I'm afraid to say anything good about Liz Cheney, I might get her in trouble, but she voted her conscience.

And we are all going to have to find some ways to put all this bickering aside because the American people are counting on us to get some things done. And some days I don't even understand why the country is so divided. Why it is still being divided by fear and hatred.

I can go back and study the Civil War and understand the roots of that. Why are we at each other's throats right now? Maybe we need to take a deep breath and start remembering that we are Americans and what's good about us. PHILLIP: Well, you know, yesterday was also a month since the horrific

insurrection attempt on January 6th and President Trump's impeachment trial is coming up this week over that very same issue.

There's clearly no sign Republicans are getting ready to convict him of this. What do you think is going to be the end goal for this impeachment trial as a Democrat? What do you hope is achieved by this process?

DINGELL: I have been very clear that we need -- that this needs to be handled in a way that we don't continue to contribute to the division in this country. I do believe that Donald Trump needs to be held accountable for what happened at the Capitol on January 6th.

People came to that Capitol with the full intent of hurting people, damaging probably the biggest symbol of democracy in this country, stealing national documents, stealing national security secrets and to kill members of congress. Now, there's got to be some accountability there.

But we also can't condemn every person that chose to exercise their freedom of speech for a different reason than those three. So we need to hold the president accountable for what happened, but we also as Democrats -- 74 million people voted for Donald Trump. Some of them are really people that came included (ph) and wanted to harm us. Some of them aren't happy with the direction of the country or worried about something and they want us to hear them.

[08:39:59]

DINGELL: I want to listen to them. I want to spend more time with -- as Americans talking to each other, understanding each other and working together to attack the problems on both sides (INAUDIBLE) we have.

PHILLIP: Do you think that this is being handled in a way that will deepen those divisions that you said that you're concerned about?

DINGELL: It will depend upon the way the impeachment managers manage the impeachment. It will depend upon the way the Republican and the Democratic senators respond in this impeachment. And then as you just said a few minutes ago, Donald Trump is always a wild card.

But I think the American people's eyes were opened. Nobody expected the Capitol to be under siege or any insurrection on January 6. I think that's horrified a lot of people.

PHILLIP: Yes.

DINGELL: And we need to hold that accountable (ph). Do you know what it's like to go to work with barbed wire around the nation's Capitol? Men with assault weapons, military guards? That's not who we are in America. I want to go back to being the democracy I know and love.

PHILLIP: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Appreciate it. DINGELL: Thank you. Be safe.

PHILLIP: And up next, the COVID numbers in the United States are falling and they're falling fast. So is it safe to feel a tiny bit optimistic?

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PHILLIP: It is Super Bowl Sunday and President Biden is hoping to use the huge television audience tonight to drive home two key public health messages: wear your mask and get the vaccine as soon as it's available to you.

If you look at the latest data it appears that the U.S. may finally have bent the COVID curve. New cases are plunging since early January and deaths have plateaued though still at a very high level. Last week there were at least ten times the number of vaccinations as there were new cases.

So the question is are we past the worst of the pandemic? But it depends on who you ask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Things are about to get much better, which should make people feel better.

I mean you have two excellent vaccines out there that are 95 percent effective. You have three more vaccines right around the corner that we'll probably hear about in the next month or two. The weather is going to get warmer, which makes it less easy for this virus to be transmitted.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: I think this next surge with this new variant from the United Kingdom could very well far surpass 300,000 cases a day. So as much as we all want to feel better about what's happening, we just have to understand that we have some very, very dark days ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining us now with all the answers to those questions: Dr. Megan Ranney, emergency room physician and researcher at Brown University, and the Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health Dr. Ashish Jha. Thank you both for being here.

[08:44:49]

PHILLIP: Dr. Jha, I will start with you. I think viewers really don't know what to think about the moment that we're in. Cases are down, vaccinations are definitely speeding up, but you have experts like Dr. Osterholm warning that the worst days could still be ahead.

Is he right about that? And do you think that the rest of winter will be -- you know -- what do you think it will be like for the rest of the winter and spring in the United States?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. Good morning, Abby. Thanks for having me on.

You know, the short answer is Dr. Osterholm is right. Here is how do think about it. We are in a much better spot now than we were three weeks ago. Cases are falling. And the optimism and the kind of outlook for the future is very bright once we get into May and June.

The issue is the time between now and then. And this U.K. variant that is starting to circulate and growing every day could very well really flatten hospitals, cause all of the things that Dr. Osterholm is saying.

So we need a short-term strategy. We've got one more big bend in the curve -- if we can deal with that, I think things are going to get much, much better. But the next couple months may end up being pretty tough.

PHILLIP: And Dr. Ranney, there was an interesting study this week about who is actually spreading the virus the most. And it turns out that three quarters of the spread comes from those between ages 20 and 49.

But does that make you rethink how we are prioritizing the vaccine?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN BROWN UNIVERSITY: You know, Abby, that doesn't make me rethink it. Anyone in medicine or public health should not have been surprised by that study. That's what we're seeing from contact tracing, that's what we're seeing from testing results.

Older folks are largely staying home, but it's those older folks and people with multiple chronic conditions who are at highest risk of coming into my ER. Highest risk of being hospitalized and highest risk of dying.

We have made a decision in this country appropriately to prioritize those who are highest risk for severe illness and death to get that vaccine. The younger folks we need to mask and to avoid indoor unmasked get-togethers for now.

PHILLIP: And Dr. Ranney, you are also now fully vaccinated yourself. We know that that doesn't mean that you can rip off your mask and go into a crowded restaurant, for example. But when you are vaccinated and let's say a friend or relative is vaccinated can you at least finally share a meal indoors together? What can people look forward to?

DR. RANNEY: So personally now that I'm fully vaccinated I, of course, take a big sigh of relief when I go to work in the ER. I have a much lower chance of getting a severe infection.

And then yes, I have had coffee with friends that I would not have seen three months ago. I actually got on a plane for the first time since March and as more of us get vaccinated, that will become more possible.

I'm still careful because I could catch the virus and bring it home to my husband who has not been vaccinated yet, but I'm much -- I take a bigger sigh of relief and I think that we have much more to look forward to about getting together with other friends who fully completed the two shots and then that extra week or two after the second shot.

PHILLIP: And I think the thing for a lot of people to remember is that the vaccines are not necessarily going to prevent you from getting it. It will probably prevent you from getting very, very sick and dying.

Dr. Ranney, Dr. Jha -- I appreciate you both being with us this morning. Thanks.

And up next, Democrats want to make Qanon and Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene the face of the GOP.

[08:48:12]

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PHILLIP: One state, two big political trends. Georgia voted for a Democrat for president for the first time since 1992, and after two decades of easy wins for the Republican on the ballot, Cobb County and Atlanta suburbs shows how the changing electorate has fueled Democratic gains.

20 years ago, former President George W. Bush won that county by 23 points. And last November, Cobb County voters backed President Biden by 14. Now far away is still Republican country. Voters there elected a conspiracy touting congresswoman, Marjorie Taylor Greene in November and she says her views are in line with her party's. Democrats agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): What you need to know about me is I'm a very regular American just like the people I represent in my district and most people across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Qanon, a conspiracy theory formed online to go with the Republican Party, send followers to Congress, and with Donald Trump incited a mob that attacked the Capitol and murdered a cop..

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Back with us Astead Herndon of "The New York Times".

So Astead, as you can see obviously, Democrats are wasting no time there, and Georgia obviously feels like the center of the political universe. You were on the ground in that state leading up to last month's runoff races. Why is it that Republicans and Democrats seem to be taking such divergent lessons from what unfolded there last month.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes. I mean it's really the kind of crossroads of a lot of political narratives right now. You have a Republican Party that in Georgia specifically is kind of wrestling with itself. You have the Marjorie Taylor Greene. You have Brian Kemp, the state's governor who obviously encouraged the ire of President Trump for refusing to back his attempts to subvert and overthrow the election.

And then you have a Democratic Party that has experienced the real demographic changes and have benefited from that in the state.

Georgia is happening in the way that it is because of the kind of dual forces. You have a kind of rising tide of multiculturalism in the state that has added not only, in addition to black voters, (INAUDIBLE) Latino voters increasing throughout the state that has to helped Democrats.

But at the same time it's happening because of that suburban drift. So in places like Cobb County, like you mentioned, you have college- educated whites, conservatives and centrists saying that they're going to break from President Trump.

The two things there have helped Democrats really succeed in a way they couldn't have even imagined five or ten years ago.

PHILLIP: Right. I mean you just mentioned Brian Kemp. You reported on some of these tensions with Republicans in Georgia after months of back and forth. They are now forced to contend with Congresswoman Greene.

This unity that you're seeing among Republicans in Georgia and probably nationally as well, does that give Democrats an advantage in that state that could have profound implications for the electoral map going forward?

HERNDON: Yes. I mean, it's a huge question. When we think about what Republicans are doing in these battlegrounds, places like Georgia but even extending to Wisconsins, the Michigans and Pennsylvanias of the world, it's not as if after November, they've had a real reflection or saying we're going to do something differently. They're basically doubling and tripling down on Trumpism as it means to win (ph), when we know that has repelled enough voters for them to lose those states.

[08:54:56]

HERNDON: And so that is what is going to be the core questioning (ph) of can Republicans even claw themselves back in a state where they're not really willing to do that type of reflection and growth from that point?

And so in Georgia, you have Democrats trying to seize on this power. But let's remember, Republicans still have power in these states, too. Democrats won on the presidential level, on the senate level.

Republican experienced big wins on the state legislature level to be able to get them control about those house districts and drawing maps and that's going to help them over the next years in terms of retaining that type of power.

So certainly, Democrats think they (AUDIO GAP) but it's not a clear line of Republicans are completely on the outs.

PHILLIP: And they're using that power to crack down on voting, which will be, I think, the next big battle coming up.

HERNDON: Yes.

PHILLIP: Astead Herndon, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Join us back here every Sunday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern time. We hope you'll also catch the weekday version of the show at noon Eastern time as well.

And up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH".

Thank you again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. Have a great day.

[08:56:04]

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