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Now: Biden's AG Pick Faces Senate Questions At Confirmation Hearing; Garland Vows To Supervise Prosecutions Of Capitol Rioters; Garland: If Confirmed, "I'm Not The President's Lawyer"; Supreme Court Allows Release Of Trump Tax Returns To New York Prosecutor; Soon: Biden To Make Small Business Announcement. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I think it's important that every American have the opportunity to vote. Voting is the central of asset, the pilgrim of our democracy. So anything that can - any legislation that will encourage more voting I strongly support.

Specifically you were referring to the Supreme Court's decision in the Shelby county case which said that the coverage formula for pre- clearance couldn't be used as unconstitutional because of the then- stated congressional record.

But the court indicated that a different and stronger record might support pre-clearance. And I would be in favor, if I'm confirmed of working with the Committee and the Senate and the House to try and develop that record that would allow that important tool to be used.

The department still does have other tools. It has section 2 which remains in force as the Supreme Court clearly said in Shelby County. And it prevents interference with voting practices and procedures. You know that interfere with minorities' ability to vote.

And it is something that the department has always looked to as an important tool. There are plenty of other tools to increase the ability of Americans to vote which I would support.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT): Thank you. And I know Senator Lee has already raised this. But please know that Senator Lee and I will both be talking to you about privacy matters. This is not a privacy issue, it's an issue of concern and we'll do that.

Let me ask you another question about an issue concerned to be in the Bush administration, the last Bush administration. They put a moratorium on death - in federal cases. They gave a reason for that. And that death moratorium has lasted or did last from 2003 during the Bush administration.

And then suddenly in the last six months the justice department under the last president rushed to execute more people. This is what's stunning. In six months it'd been executed in the past 60 years. That's a matter - then I feel that is nothing short of being a killing spree. And what worries me is we all know the death penalty is used

disproportionately against minorities and the poor. I was a prosecutor. I prosecuted many murder cases. I always support for that party. And - theirs have somebody serve their time for years in a prison cell thinking about what they did wrong.

Now I am joining Senator Durbin and Senator Booker reintroducing the federal death penalty act which would end the federal death penalty. So I ask you this. Would you go back to what President Bush did?

And reinstate the federal moratorium which was looked just in the last few months or the last administration have reinstated while Senator Durbin, Senator Booker, myself and others work on the legislation eliminating the death penalty?

GARLAND: Well as you know Senator, President Biden is an opponent of the death penalty. I have to say that over those almost 20 years in which the federal death penalty had been paused; I have had a great pause about the death penalty.

I am very concerned about the large number of exonerations that have occurred through DNA evidence and otherwise, not only in death penalty convictions but also in other convictions.

I think a terrible thing occurs when somebody is convicted of a crime that they did not commit. And the most terrible thing happens if someone is executed for a crime they did not commit. It's also the case that during this pause we've seen fewer and fewer death penalty applications anywhere in the country, not only in the federal government but among the states.

And as a consequence I'm concerned about the increasing almost randomness or arbitrariness of its application when you have so little number of cases.

[12:05:00]

GARLAND: And finally and very importantly is the other matter that you raise which is its disparate impact. The data is clear that it has an enormously disparate impact on black Americans and members of communities of color. And exonerations also that something like half of the exonerations had to do with black men.

So all of this has given me pause and I expect that the president will be given direction in this area. And if so I expect it not at all unlikely that we will return to the previous policy.

LEAHY: Thank you. I think my time is probably just about up, but I also add as Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, I'm going to be talking to you about the primary justice, the grants they had on violence against women act, vocal grants other such things.

They - had bipartisan support. Again we got to make sure they are done. Frankly judge, I'm very happy you're here. I have a feeling we're going to have a lot of conversations in the next few years. GARLAND: Well I hope that's the case Senator. I'd be happy to have

conversations even if I'm not confirmed, but I certainly prefer them if I am confirmed.

LEAHY: You're going to be confirmed. I'll bet my farm in Vermont on that.

GARLAND: Never ask anybody to bet that Senator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Senator Leahy. Senator Sasse?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Chairman.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: I'm John King in Washington. Welcome to "Inside Politics." We'll continue to watch the hearing here. You see Judge Merrick Garland. He is President Biden's choice to be the next Attorney General of the United States. The Senate Judiciary Committee now going through a two-day hearing.

A number of interesting topics to talk about as we move forward to that also a busy news day; we'll take you live to the White House in just a few moments. The president about to announce some changes to a very important COVID relief program, the so-called PPP program designed to aide small businesses.

A lot of complaints, a lot of that money are going to big businesses not mom and pop businesses. President Biden will allow to add some changes in just a few moments and also on this busy news day, a big setback for the former president at the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court ruling, Donald Trump must turn over to Manhattan prosecutors in New York his tax records. His tax records are part of the investigation there so a lot to cover in the hour ahead. Let's begin with what we were just listening to.

A very important confirmation hearing for the man who will become America's next top law enforcement official. Judge Merrick Garland, the past 24 years, a U.S. Appeals court judge here in Washington pledging independence if he comes to the justice department you see Attorney General.

And pledging that priority one would be to put behind bars those found responsible for the capitol insurrection back on January 6th. With us to share the reporting and their insights on this very important confirmation hearing is CNN's Dana Bash and our Legal Analyst Elie Honig and Laura Coates.

Laura let me start with you. I want everyone to get a chance to listen to the man he will be confirmed as the next Attorney General. We don't know how many Republican votes, but it's clear many Republicans plan on supporting judge Garland.

He was a prosecutor back before he was on the bench as a judge in the Oklahoma City bombing back in the mid-'90s. Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City and he linked that experience to what he told Senators listen here will be his number one challenge if we assume in just days, he is the Attorney General.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARLAND: From 1995 to 1997 I supervised the prosecution of the perpetrators of the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building who sought to spark a revolution that would topple the federal government. If confirmed, I will supervise the prosecution of white supremacists and others who stormed the Capitol on January 6th a heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We know Laura Coates 230 people already investigation is continuing. 230 people have been charged already including more than a dozen members of the so-called proud boy's extremist group, another dozen or so belonged to the Oath Keepers group.

Judge Garland being very careful in his words, very cautious saying he needs to get briefed obviously by the prosecutors on the investigation. But what did you take away from it as an accomplished lawyer as to how he's going to approach this critical first case?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well first of all it's very clear that he believes in the separation of powers because he sees the insurrection as an attempt to topple our government. And the way we look at the separation of these co-equal branches of government. So he's already committed in ways we haven't seen.

And remember the justice department is under the executive branch of government, so he is going to bat for the legislative branch of government. On top of that he's concerned with the idea of the white supremacy that was part and parcel to many of the - what we saw on screen for the insurrections as well.

[12:10:00]

COATES: So he is using his previous experience as a domestic terrorism prosecutor to tackle what is domestic terrorism, the idea of white supremacy and trying to lash out. What I also saw was him being very cautious about the idea of he's well aware that there is going to be a 9/11 style commission John that will look into what happened at the insurrection and leading up to it.

And he's concerned as a prosecutor there is going to be a conflict of interest for the witnesses who might see competing investigations as a way to maybe go around or deter them from testifying in either.

So he was very adamant about saying, I welcome this commission as long as it does not interfere with our ability to prosecute and to hear from witnesses. That's him being very forward thinking about what's going to happen about the public's need to know about what happened and the prosecutor's role in trying to punish those who were involved, those who encouraged and those who have impacted our democracy.

KING: Forward thinking and clearly aware there is likely to be some tension given the court cases. Those prosecutions might take months and months and the commission wants to go forward. And so Elie, Merrick Garland obviously an appeals court judge well respected here in town repeatedly saying I'm the people's lawyer, I'm not the president's lawyer.

I will be independent, I will be independent, I will be independent. But he's about to become Attorney General at a time there are potential Trump criminal investigations that could cross his desk. Governor Cuomo's role in New York in the nursing home data could cross his desk, a prominent Democratic Governor.

Hunter Biden's business dealings we know his taxes at least under investigation by the U.S. Attorney in Delaware. Rudy Giuliani's Ukraine activities under investigation by federal authorities the Durham probe on the origins of the Russia investigation will be inherited by Judge Garland.

So he wants to be apolitical. But some of the things as you all know from your work as a federal prosecutor, they collide sometimes. Policy and politics do. Listen to this exchange. This is Chuck Grassley, Republican Senator of IR asking in specifically about Hunter Biden and whether he discussed it with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): So have you discussed this Hunter Biden case with the president or anyone else?

GARLAND: I have not. The president made abundantly clear in every public statement before and after my nomination that decisions about investigations and prosecutions will be left to the justice department. That was the reason that I was willing to take on this job and so the answer to your question is no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He's a cool customer and again he's an experienced jurist on the bench. He knows he's not supposed to say much in those answers. Did you take away anything from that specifically about Hunter Biden or from the other questions about independence and politics about how he could build that firewall?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I did John. I think Merrick Garland has made as clear as humanly possible that he will restore independence to DOJ. That is his number one value that's historically DOJ's number one value. When he was asked have you discussed this investigation with the president, President Biden, he said unequivocally no I have not.

I think he's made it very clear. And I have to say watching Ted Cruz interrogate Merrick Garland about DOJ's integrity and Ted Cruz what did he do, he skipped over the last four years. He didn't say anything about what Donald Trump, what Bill Barr did to DOJ.

I mean, you want to talk about politicization and weaponization of DOJ. Those guys at the standard, I worked that DOJ under the Bush administration, the Obama administration. What happened the last four years is far, far worse than any of those.

And so it was hard to sit here and listen to Ted Cruz sort to get on his high horse about politicization of DOJ. But I think Merrick Garland is making quite clear that independence is his number one priority.

KING: Well, since you brought it up let's continue, let's talk about the politics Dana and Ted Cruz just back - let's just say humiliating and embarrassing and justify at least some few days trying to prove his conservative bona fides. And to Ally's point talking about Eric Holder as this horrible Attorney General.

And look the Democrats wanted to talk about Bill Barr and Donald Trump and the Trump Justice Departments were large. So the issue came up about independence. And let's listen. Ted Cruz using Eric Holder once described himself as Barack Obama's wing man. That's the context for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I right in assuming you do not view your role as Attorney General as being Joe Biden's wing man?

GARLAND: But I can assure you I do not regard myself as anything other than the lawyer for the people of the United States. I'm not the president's lawyer; I am the United States' lawyer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Number one. Again Judge Garland is a very impressive guy. He knows how to stay in the lanes and answer. And to Elie's point he said repeatedly I am going to be the justice department lawyer through the president's policy, but I'm not going to do politics. But I'm going to call the attempted rehabilitation of Ted Cruz there was a sub plot.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Especially using the word wing man, we can let that go. But look, these are important questions to be asked of Merrick Garland. And he's answered them so far and we have a lot more to go. Many, many times he addressed the notion of taking politics out of DOJ from the very beginning in his opening statement.

[12:15:00]

BASH: But just as Elie said, the fact that the Republicans are using their time to get a sound bite played on Fox News and other conservative media which is exactly what we just saw for their political benefit is - there's absolutely no irony left in here.

I mean, I don't even know how to describe it. Because for example Ted Cruz, it's not just that he ignored the past four years. It's that he was a very real player in the farce that was the stolen election that Donald Trump put forward.

So you know I think we have to say that, get on the record with that and then move on. And look more broadly at the fact that you mentioned this John, I mean, whether it is Chuck Grassley, the top Republican on the committee now, Lindsey Graham maybe even John Cornyn.

It looks like this could be a pretty big bipartisan vote given the politics that we have seen in the justice department and the partisan nature of this role for so many years.

KING: Right. And again - mentioned it but there is a little bit of we owe you, Judge Garland that the Republicans wouldn't get my hearing five years ago. And he was nominated for the Supreme Court. So maybe there is a little bit - I say guilt maybe a little tiny bit, we'll see as that one plays forward.

We'll go back to the hearing as their important moment start at - but as the hearing was playing out this morning, a blockbuster ruling from the United States Supreme Court. It is now allowing the release of former President Trump's tax returns to a New York prosecutor.

Those returns will be subject to grand jury secrecy rules, meaning the public you and I may never see them. This of course part of an investigation into Trump organization questions about Trump organization finances and questions about alleged hush money payments and other issues involving the former president.

One sentence order that the nations' highest quote on Trump's request to keep his tax returns for the New York prosecutor quote, the application for a stay presented to Justice Breyer and referred to the court is denied.

So Laura, a significant setback let's just put hat right on the record. A significant setback, Donald Trump has fought this and fought this and fought this for years. Now the Supreme Court, a conservative majority on the court with three Trump justices saying Cyrus Vance, the Manhattan D.A. and his grand jury are entitled to this.

What happens now? And the public may never see this right unless there is a case brought forward and pieces of the tax returns are used as evidence.

COATES: That's correct. And as you noted, there actually has been no noted dissents there. As you got three justices that Trump put on in the court himself essentially. And they did not allow him to have this sort of immunity from having to hand out or hand over his tax documents. That's number one.

But also you're right. A grand jury has secrecy requirements and rules for a reason. We don't want people to have all of their dirty laundry aired unless there is some actual criminal connection there.

Remember Michael Cohen, the former fixer of President Trump was the one to alert the court through a hearing not really unlike what we're seeing right now about the idea of over inflation of assets, deflation of assets as well which led to the conclusions about whether the tax returns could be used in some criminal prosecution or investigation.

So unless the grand jury finds that there is some criminal hook in terms of the over inflation or overstatement of assets or the deflation for some sort of tax benefit, we may never see any of this. And again it has to go all the way to a trial for us to see this.

If there is an early plea, if there is some sort of settlement of some type, we wouldn't see that either. And so it's going to be incumbent upon the grand jurors to find that hook for the prosecutors to look and see if there really is one.

And remember Trump's lawyers have said from day one, this is all about a continuing witch hunt. This is overbroad. You have no interest in a prosecution. You have only an interest in trying to embarrass me or show that I'm not the wealthy individual that I said I am

But the court essentially said actually there appears to be a criminal hook here, enough for a grand jury to investigate the issue. And it's in their hands now not the federal government, it's in the grand jurors' hands right now to figure out if an indictment should be forthcoming.

KING: And so Elie help us through that. If you're working a case that involves financial documents, you're asking questions about what they declared the value of certain properties when they were borrowing money from banks. And then did they declare them in a different value when they filed their taxes.

As you're trying to build this case, how significant is it that the grand jury and prosecutor with the history of working financial crimes will now have these precious documents?

HONIG: John this is a crucial and necessary piece of the investigation because like you said, the crux of the investigation here is how did they value different assets at different times? So as a prosecutor, what you want to do let's say, OK.

When they applied for a bank loan, what did they say their assets were worth, what did they say their income was that kind of thing. When they applied for insurance, how did they represent those same numbers with the same assets? And when they filed tax returns, when Donald Trump individually filed his tax returns, how did he value those same assets?

[12:20:00]

HONIG: And if you see a big difference between the different documents, the different times when he had to report those asset values, that's what prosecutors are going to be drawn to. That's going to be the heart of any charge that may or may not come out of the Manhattan D.A.

KING: And gone Dana, the biggest lie this former president told was about the election, alleging fraud where there was done. But consistently as the candidate back in 2015-2016 through his presidency when the issue of why don't you release your taxes to the public or why don't you be forthcoming when prosecutors asked for was the combination of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: When the audit is complete, I'll release my returns. I have no problem with it. It doesn't matter.

We're under order despite what people said and we're working that out. I'm always under audit it seems. But I've been under audit for many years because the numbers are big and I guess when you have a name, you're audited. Actually, I paid tax. And you'll see that as soon as my tax returns - it's under audit. They've been under audit for a long time. The IRS does not treat me well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Don't have to list to that anymore, anyway. At least the prosecutors will get to answer their questions.

BASH: Yes. And there's absolutely no - since you played it, there's no rule that says that just because somebody's tax returns are under audit allegedly according to him, not anybody else that they can't release what they have but stepping - upon from that.

KING: A thousand excuse from day one through now.

BASH: Yes exactly. I know the point you were trying to make. I actually am looking at it through a political lens looking ahead to 2024 and wondering whether the very real flirtation that people around the former president say that he is making towards another run could be impacted by a final - finally the public being able to view the tax returns that he worked so hard to hide.

And if this is a real detrimental reason even for somebody who has the political Teflon that he does among, I don't know what, 30 percent or so of the Republican base which matters a lot when you're running in the Republican primary. Maybe depending on what's in there, the question is whether or not he would rethink opening himself up to another political run.

He is certainly not somebody who has had sort of the shame or the - before, but it could be different when it comes to his money.

KING: It could be. And you make an important point about what I'll call the hypocrisy at this time at the moment. So many Republicans who publicly are still afraid of him some of the kissing his ring at the moment privately whispering all the time that they hope something takes him off the battlefield including one of these investigations as they'd like to be --.

We'll see as it goes. Thank you Dana Bash, Elie and Laura as we're all up. Next for us testing time for President Biden and congressional Democrats COVID relief plan votes are looming, one this week, one next hour.

And the White House cannot count on any Republican support and before we go to break, a solemn moment on the houseful this morning the Speaker of the House leading a moment of silence to mark a horrific milestone. 500,000 American lives lost to COVID-19.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The Chair asks all members in the chamber as well as members and staff throughout the Capitol to rise for a moment of silence in remembrance of more than 500,000 Americans who have passed away from the COVID-19 virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

KING: We're just moments away; you see the podium there at the White House an important announcement from the President of the United States and revisions to the so called PPE, Paycheck Protection Program. It's a loan program designed for small business. There's been quite a bit of criticism a lot of that money is not going to mom and pop businesses.

The president will be out to speak in just a couple of moments. While we wait Dana Bash is still with us and our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan the president trying to fix a policy failure if you will or at least tweak it on what is also going to be a horrific day we will hit 500,000 American COVID deaths.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So what you're going to hear from him right now is basically focusing on the economic blowback that we've seen as a result of this pandemic. And that comes just a few hours before we do expect him to mark this death toll that we are now approaching later on today.

But focusing on what he is about to say here, this is all going to be about small businesses and what they should expect going forward. And of course this is his Paycheck Protection Program that you saw implemented under former President Trump.

Of course there were so many questions raised about it because how quickly they were trying to get the money out initially and who it was going to. So every time you've seen them try to restart the program, have a second iteration of it, they're trying to make adjustments every time to make the program better. And so probably what's most notable out of this one and what we heard from the SBA earlier today is that this is really focused on helping those small, small businesses.

So starting on Wednesday there is going to be - a two-week moratorium where only businesses that have 20 or fewer employees can apply for these loans because there was this concern that they would be shut out in the last time until the U.S. President Biden now.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I just had an opportunity to catch up with two small business owners I met on the road in the last couple weeks. And the first was a very entrepreneurial woman named Pilar Guzman Zavala, and she's from Florida, Miami, and Tim Ikinger (ph) who is in Wisconsin.

They have different businesses and live in different places. But both shared the same message with me when I spoke to them on the road. And that was American small businesses are hurting and hurting badly and they need help now. And it's in all of our interest to make sure they get the help now.

[12:30:00]