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Second Day Of Testimony In Derek Chauvin Trial; Witness: I Saw George Floyd Was "In Very Much Danger"; Witness To Floyd Killing: "I Felt The Need To Call The Police On The Police"; Witness: No Violence From Bystanders, Only From Officers; Witness: I Called 911 "Because I Believe I Witnessed A Murder". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 30, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: And it's hard to think 18 year old who is crying on the stand was there to bring the little cousin to get snacks John was watching what she called a cry for help would be somebody that a defense attorney could somehow undermine or somehow try to call into question her credibility.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Right. And let's continue on that point. As you make the case, I think it's important for viewers some of this testimony they might think why are they taking all this time, why are they doing this painstaking minute by minute. But they're trying to build if you will the mosaic of what happened on that day.

And they showed a video one of the surveillance photos at one point that showed this again a woman's name is DT if you've been watching. And you'll see the video she's the woman in the blue pants. You see her with a video. She also identifies at one point a friend someone she said she went to school with before.

And she pointed her out on the video again, a potential witness down the road, someone who you see holding a phone photo - photographing the scene right there video we assume of the scene right there.

And also another woman who that she - the prosecutor identified and then they obviously with the judge had to identify or simply as to how she was dressed because her name has not been put in the official record yet.

But Genevieve Hanson who we know from the opening statements was a firefighter who came upon the scene who then repeatedly according to this witness DT repeatedly said please check his pulse, please check his pulse. Why is it so important?

Again you have one witness saying this other witness arrived she asked to check his pulse not just once but repeatedly. And then she described Officer Chauvin who she said number one did not check his pulse. And in her view her eyewitness view started to lean even harder nearly even harder.

COATES: Simple answer there is strength in numbers and corroboration is the key for any successful prosecution. Even if the evidence is quite clear even if the verbal responses you're hearing are obvious and audible, you still do need to understand that there are jurors here.

And jurors need to have that strength and number. Now of course there's quantity and there's quality. Arguably the nine minute and 20 plus second video is the star witness in all of this trial.

But the idea of having it come in to the vantage point different people notice you've got now a dispatcher, somebody who is well versed and has a lot of understanding about how police operations work.

They've probably seen or heard a great deal in being a 911 dispatcher. That person said something was not right. My gut told me something was not right and brought in a sergeant. You have somebody who is an MMA fighter who is familiar with submission holds.

And even him watching it said and my personal experience not as an expert I'm not called as an expert. I'm seeing something right - I'm pleading for somebody's life. You've got a child who is watching it who's watching who's supposed to be a public servant.

I remember the days growing up in Minnesota and having the dare officer come in the Drug Abusers Education Officer coming in known as Officer Friendly because you were told to turn to an officer a peace officer they will help. You a child watching this and saying that she feels threatened by an officer.

And other officers are grabbing their mace and grabbing at their mace when people are coming at them to try to save a life. Then you've got somebody else another public servant John, a firefighter who of course as you know if you dial 911 you're getting the police.

You're getting the fire truck you're getting the EMT ambulance. That person comes, sees what's going on and says more than once you got to take a pulse and that person shoot away.

So from every different angle as a prosecutor you are appealing to the common sense of a diverse spectrum of jurors, each of which are telling you not only that this person did something wrong, but all of these people and still more to come all have the same theme. That's the kind of corroboration you don't find every day.

KING: Laura standby for one second because I want to come back to that point of how you put - put the pieces together as you move through all this. But I also want to get some perspective from CNNs Omar Jimenez who was there in Minneapolis now outside of the courthouse for us.

The morning testimony done Omar in this day to have testimony in the show of in trial your major takeaway so far on this day.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well right now John we're in the middle of a 10 minute break. We'll be back in just about 10 minutes. When you look at the takeaways from this what you're seeing is really the story of what happened on May 25, 2020 is being told through the eyewitnesses that were there that day. Of course we saw the second half of the testimony from Donald Williams begin witness testimony today. And that was maybe the most contentious exchange we have seen over the course of this entire trial so far, particularly when they got to the cross examination portion of this.

And defense attorney for Derek Chauvin Eric nelson was trying to ask - was trying to ask Williams about the terms that he was calling Derek Chauvin that day. The terms and what and the visuals that he was seeing as that was unfolding. And to which William just kept saying well have you seen the video, have you seen the video watch the video, watch the video.

Eventually he just said I said what I said and left it at that. There were multiple objections that happen there. So clearly there was a bit of - contention is probably the best word to describe him. And then after Williams was over, he moved to an eyewitness who is appearing by audio only.

[12:05:00]

JIMENEZ: That's because right before we got into witness testimony today, the judge ruled these next four witnesses were under 18 at the time of this death. So they are appearing by audio only, but identified only by her first name.

In this trial is Darnella. She shot this infamous cell phone video that was now seen throughout the world and in many ways the real spark and the record for why this became such a huge story.

And one of the more moving moments, even though you couldn't see her face was when she was asked to identify Derek Chauvin sitting in the courtroom. And whether he was the same man, she saw that day kneeling on the neck of George Floyd.

And you could hear the tears and her voice, as she eventually confirmed that this was the same man. This is something that has had a tremendous impact on her as you can imagine at such a young age. And again the main thing to pay attention to here is this story is being told through the eyes of the people that were there.

KING: Eyes of the people who were there just a few feet away. And you mentioned the emotional testimony also just compelling testimony and calm testimony as she resuscitates what she remembers, from that day, Omar Jimenez outside of the courtroom, appreciate that.

Let's also bring into our conversation Cedric Alexander. He's the former President of the National Organization of Black Lord, Law Enforcement Executives. Cedric, it is good to see you. As we watch the testimony unfold Laura Coates was talking about this a few moments ago.

The compelling part that compelling point the prosecution is trying to build is that you know whatever happened before? Yes, the defense will say that Mr. Floyd tried to pass a counterfeit bill. That Mr. Floyd declined to opportunities to go back in and make amends if you will to pay in real cash. That Mr. Floyd the defense said yesterday was high. That Mr. Floyd struggled with the police officers before the nine minutes and 29 seconds where he is handcuffed. He is prone officer Chauvin is kneeling on his neck.

The compelling point I think the prosecution is trying to make now with witness after witnesses that this crowd started together. And that several members of this crowd asked, please help take his pulse, do something get up, he's in distress.

And that the officers on the scene, not just Mr. Chauvin the others as well ignored the crowd. How important is that to the prosecution case?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Well, I think is very important because as Laura pointed out, you are going to consistently see these types of witnesses that are going to corroborate the story. But in addition to that, you got millions of viewers around this country around the world who've seen the scene story unfold in real time doing that particular day on May 25, 2020.

But let me tell you this John, as a former police officer on the streets across this country, many police officers I have spoke to. We all have been in position where we had to wrestle someone in a crowd comes around and they stand around.

And certainly nothing to the point of what we are witnessing now. But the point is this. You know, I keep hearing this whole story about they felt threatened. That was not a threatening crowd.

And I think a number of officers across this country would tell you, that was not a threatening crowd. You had a crowd there that were passive survivors, who just happened to cease bear something very disturbing to them going on as lay people.

And as they stood there for the duration of the time that they were there, they saw a man gasping for air, begging for air, begging for his mother and who appeared to them to go unconscious.

And even through their buying - begging officers Chauvin to stop there was just no show of humanity whatsoever on the part of children from what we see from that video. And you're going to continue to see those stories one behind the other.

Because it's very clear. It's crystal clear to a number of people that the lack of humanity and a moral compass here was on full display. And unfortunately, the good offices across this country are going to have to live with this.

KING: I appreciate your point about the good offices across this country. And to that point - to that point, let's listen to a little bit of Donald Williams in this. He's being re-examined by the prosecution - by the process. The - I'm sorry, yes, by the prosecution Matthew Frank here, where he makes the point that he is there.

He admits he admits he was frustrated. He did not like the term angry, but he said yes, he was using some tough words against the officers because they kept refusing entreaties from him and others to get up to let up and to do something to check the pulse of his foot. Listen to him describing the decision he made after this all played out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But anytime during this interaction, did you see officer Chauvin take his knee off of Mr. Floyd's neck?

DONALD WILLIAMS, PROSECUTION WITNESS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. When the ambulance arrived did he do that?

WILLIAMS: No. I believe I witness a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so did you felt the need to call the police?

[12:10:00]

WILLIAMS: I felt the need to call police on the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Cedric Alexander that last part there. Again, it's compelling eyewitness testimony from a man who was just a few feet away. But I felt the need to call the police on the police. Stunning.

ALEXANDER: Yes, it is. But it further indicates that he nor anyone else in that crowd took aggressive action instead of doing anything, even in all the emotions and even everything that they had been witnessing out from minutes. He decided to dial 911.

He needed to do something and he did exactly what he was trying to do. But unfortunately this time he had to call 911 on those police officers who should have been there preserving the life. Once that he went unconscious, Mr. Ford went unconscious but clearly even that definitely - nothing take place.

KING: Cedric Alexander, Laura Coates are going to stay with us. We're going to take a quick break. There's a break right now in the trial of officer Chauvin who will have much more of this trial coming up after this very quick break. Stay with us, please.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

KING: Welcome back. I'm John King in Washington. We are waiting for the resumption of testimony in this day two of the trial of the former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin. Chauvin of course charged in the death of George Floyd, back in May on the stand right now testimony to resume after this break.

And now 18 year old young woman, we are identifying only by the initials D.F. who was front and center a few feet away, who had her cell phone out and who shot the now infamous video that has been seen around the world of the George Floyd killing the death of George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis back in May.

Let's bring back our CNN Legal Analyst Laura Coates is still with us. As we watch Laura, we're in the early days of this trial. This is one day and a half day now of testimony.

Again as the prosecution as we discussed methodically calling in eyewitnesses to recreate the scene to recreate what the prosecutor said yesterday, believe your eyes this was a homicide to the witness on the stand at the moment.

Again, we are not identifying her she is now 18. She's an adult, but she was not back in May she just turned 18. So D.F. is how we are identifying her, but they showed a prosecution exhibit. And it's powerful to show it just to show this crowd a half dozen or so people standing just a few feet away from the police cruiser.

You can see officer Chauvin from behind. You see the back of his head, his knee on the neck of George Floyd. But walk us through your experience as a prosecutor, how central is this witness? And again, we won't see her because the cameras not on her in the courtroom because of her age.

But she has brought not only now compelling testimony, but the most riveting piece of evidence in this case.

COATES: There's that old saying of out of the mouths of babes right. You think about the truth. While you're talking about what the perspective and vantage point of this particular witness is.

You're not talking about anybody who's an interested party, not somebody with the baggage that you might have other eyewitnesses who might come along the ideas of what their records might be or having that person somehow be placed on trial.

Even though we know that Derek Chauvin is the one on trial, it'll be very hard for the defense attorney to try to undermine and discredit her testimony here. And also it goes to the idea of cooperation here. You may be able to, to the course of the trial attack different aspects is one credibility.

How do you do this one? And the jurors and the prosecution is going to call into question and making sure that everyone has this lingering question on their minds. What would it have taken for Derek Chauvin to check the pulse of George Floyd? What would it have taken for Derek Chauvin to take his knee off the neck of George Floyd?

What would it have taken for him to respond to the cries for help from a man who was handcuffed and prone, but also all the different bystanders who were also begging for the same thing? What would it have taken? And the question is, why did he choose not to?

And so the defense is going to try to scapegoat this case and try to look at say, Donald Williams and talk about maybe his lack of expertise as an expert as in the court context, they're going to talk about other witnesses about their vantage point to try to undermine what the dispatcher may know about submission holds. But it comes down to the question of what the officers knew and should

have known. It's a really important point to make here John. Officers are absolutely entitled to use force. Absolutely. The question is for how long? And are you able to do so in a reasonable manner after the use of force is no longer necessary?

You're talking about that spectrum, that time continuum here, that timeline here John. And unless the defense can show the case that after this particular victim, George Floyd, unconscious, not breathing, no pulse.

Unless they can show somehow that that blended some sort of a threat to the officers and a need for the use of any force, let alone excessive force, they're going to have a more than an uphill battle. It will be herculean for him to overcome this presentation of evidence.

KING: And to that point and Laura, forgive me; we're expecting the trial to resume any minute. So I have interrupt you, I apologize in advance. But to that point, you mentioned earlier in our earlier conversation strength in numbers. You had the half dozen or so eyewitnesses standing right there a few feet away and the prosecution, each of them may be compelling.

And people at home might be saying well, you have that testimony, why do you need it from another person who was right there and another person who was right there and the other person who's a few feet away and you see the image right here.

The witness we're hearing from right now D.F. is the woman in the blue pants holding her cell phone. You see the cord coming down. She was going to the cub foods with her young cousin you see in the green sweatshirt next to her.

You see Mr. Williams right there in the black sweatshirt there the hoodie with his MA that's his boxing gloves white shirt there. Each of these witnesses coming forward to your point trying to make the case that they were all standing right there. They all heard Mr. Floyd pleading, please let me breathe.

[12:20:00]

KING: I can't breathe, please let me breathe. And they all are testifying that not only officer Chauvin, but the other officers on the scene we're in. This is my word, not theirs. But indifferent, indifferent to their pleas for help.

As a prosecutor again, just help connect the building blocks of why it's so important to hear it not just once, not just twice, but maybe five or six times.

COATES: Absolutely. I mean, one of the techniques of an effective prosecutor is primacy and recency. People remember the first thing they heard which is why the opening statements are going to be so impactful and recency what they last heard. And the in between that repetition, the themes you've heard that he wouldn't get up, he wouldn't let up. You're going to have these themes that are going to be a part of the trial to stick in the jurors mind. What did I hear? What was that theme, primacy and recency?

What do I know and how many times that I hear it. Just think about how many times it takes for the average person to recall details that are not about their own lives. But the more they hear it, the better off they are, a retention. And that's they're going to go for here.

And so when you talk about the different witnesses, it's also a matter of the general preference of jurors. Now they're human beings. So they're going to have likes and dislikes preferences for people and others. Some people are going to resonate with.

I see myself in that witness that could have been me as the victim or I see myself and the approach of how that bystander operated. I too would have been shouting angry things.

I may have also used these words, what I have been as restrained not to somehow go and try to rip an officer off, people are going to have to answer it for themselves.

But that's why you want to give a potpourri essentially of choices for the jurors, people that they can resonate with, the redundancy of it all, the repetition and also these themes of primacy and recency. And that overarching question again John, I'll go back to it.

For these jurors right now they're probably listening and saying, why don't you just get off? Or why didn't you check a pulse? Why didn't you just do the bare minimum of service people would expect? And from each different vantage point, jurors are seeing themselves through these people.

But of course the role of the defense will be I want you to see yourself through the eyes of Derek Chauvin through the eyes of the other officers here. What was he thinking? What was his training? What was the protocol? Why didn't the other officers remove him?

Yes, a firefighter said to take a pause. Yes, a child did. Yes, you had other people around but the other officers didn't act. And that's why the power dynamic, that's it play is important here. Remember these were his trainees in part.

So they'll have to think about all these different data. But those three officers, they're not a part of this trial for this reason.

KING: And let me follow up on that point because Mr. Chauvin is entitled to the best defense any defendant in America is. And you watch his attorney come forward here.

At one point he was talking to Mr. Williams about mixed martial arts and how in most cases you fight to your weight, if you will. And my inference there was he is trying to make the point down the road that George Floyd was this large, strong man. And obviously Chauvin felt out matched because of his size. And that's

why he did that in a vacuum makes perfect sense, except Mr. Floyd was handcuffed face down. There were three other officers on the scene. And an ambulance arrived at one point.

So I get the piece of it, I guess from a prosecutor but just speak, if you were the defense lawyer, why is that? Do you think that is a grain that he - that perhaps can be put to useful - use down the road or is it fishing?

COATES: Now he planted that seed in his opening statement. I remember taking note. He said look, Derek Chauvin was five, nine, 140 pounds. He said that George Floyd was 63, 223 pounds and said this was not an easy struggle.

Of course forgetting the very basic thing you're talking about the power dynamic shifts, we were talking about somebody who's handcuff prone and unconscious at that point in time with no pulse. That is the definition of an easy struggle, a definition of an easy suspect.

However if I'm a defense team remember, the branch that I am clinging to is that I use reasonable force because I was anticipating that I had force being used against me. Or as the question Mr. Williams that remember, he asked the question, have you ever had a time when somebody has been you know, needing to be tapped out essentially?

And your MMA fights and then they are revitalized in some way revived. MMA come back to attack. He was trying to paint the picture of the defense council that the concern for Derek Chauvin and the reason he remained on George Floyd's neck was because he was concerned about having this person revive in some way and present an issue for self defense.

Now that to me sounded quite unpersuasive given the fact you had three other officers there. You also had a man that was unconscious. And of course you had an ambulance that was there and he still had not moved his neck. But what we're trying to do is plant the seeds of doubt.

[12:25:00]

COATES: Plant these moments of oh, well then, you know an officer perhaps is trying to anticipate the need to restrain and is being proactive, not vindictive and a murderer.

KING: Laura Coates grateful for the perspective. Will it take you back right now immediately to the continued testimony in the trial of former officer Derek Chauvin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: How did you see him respond and react to the crowds calling out to him? What did you see him do?

D.F. UNDERAGE WITNESS TO GOERGE FLOYD'S DEATH: He just staring us within us. He had like this could look heartless. He didn't care. It seemed - it seemed as if he didn't care. What we were saying it didn't change anything he was doing in.

BLACKWELL: In response to what you and the other bystanders were saying, did you see him do anything differently to the body of George Floyd?

D.F: Can you read?

BLACKWELL: Well, I'll just ask you the question. Yes. In response to what the problem is doing or saying, did you see him at any time kneeling harder on George Floyd in response?

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Incidentally do you see Mr. Chauvin in the courtroom today? Could you please point them out? Yes, for the record, she's pointing to Mr. Chauvin. Thank you. Now you had some point that told us that you were there when the ambulance came.

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Did Mr. Chauvin get off of this to Floyd when the ambulance arrived?

D.F.: No, the ambulance person had to actually tend to lift up.

BLACKWELL: So the ambulance arrives and does an ambulance person get out right away and come over to ask Mr. Chauvin to lift up or did something else happened before that.

D.F.: He checked his pulse first, while Chauvin's knee was still remained on George Floyd's neck.

BLACKWELL: Alright, so paramedic checks his pulse was Mr. Chauvin is still on his neck, then what happened after that?

D.F.: The paramedic was he did like a motion like get up telling him basically telling him to remove his knee. His knee was still there, even when making even at the end even unresponsive.

BLACKWELL: All right. And is that Mr. Chauvin get up at that time then?

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: All right. As you were observing the entire scene, did you observe Mr. Floyd, do anything that you felt was threatening to any of the police officers?

D.F.: No.

BLACKWELL: Did you see him do anything other than call out in anguish?

D.F.: No - maybe trying to get more comfortable. No.

BLACKWELL: Do you feel - let me ask questions a different way. When you arrive at the scene, you heard this to Floyd crying out you told us.

D.F.: Yes --.

BLACKWELL: At some point during the period of time when he was under Mr. Chauvin's knees, did you see him go unconscious?

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Did you hear any discussion about whether or not he had in fact died?

D.F.: No.

BLACKWELL: Did you have - when the paramedics came, they picked up this body they took his body from the scene.

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Did they revive him there?

D.F.: No.

BLACKWELL: Did you ever see him conscious again when he left the scene - left the scene?

D.F.: No.

BLACKWELL: Incidentally would be the photograph here of the bystanders, the exhibit 184 that's in front of you. Did the bystanders for the most part stay there on the sidewalk where they were?

D.F.: For the most part, yes.

BLACKWELL: If they stepped at all into the - if they stepped it all into the street, was there an officer there telling them to get back?

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Did you see that the bystanders complied with what the officer was asking me about?

D.F.: Yes.

BLACKWELL: (Inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nelson?

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you. Good morning, ma'am.

D.F.: Good morning.

NELSON: Thank you for being here. Just have a few questions for you. OK?

D.F.: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:30:00]