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Biden Bets Big With $2.3 Trillion Infrastructure Plan; MLB First To Boycott Georgia Over New Voting Law; Biden Promises To "Change The Paradigm" On Economic Policy; Witnesses Give Emotional Testimony In First Week Of Chauvin Trial; U.S. Hits Four Million COVID-19 Vaccine Doses In A Day. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired April 04, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:30]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice-over): Biden's big bet. A $2 trillion plan to rebuild America's infrastructure and overhaul the U.S. economy.

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a once in a generation investment in America. It's big, yes. It's bold, yes. And we can get it done.

PHILLIP: Plus, Georgia strikes out. Baseball moves its all-star game because of the state's new voting restrictions.

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), ATLANTA, GEORGIA: It is really probably the first of many boycotts of our state to come.

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R), GEORGIA: Major League Baseball may be scared of Stacey Abrams, Joe Biden and the left, but I am not.

PHILLIP: And millions more inoculated, but health officials warn a new COVID surge may be here.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We have so much to look forward to, but right now, I'm scared.

PHILLIP: We'll talk to NIH lead vaccine developer, Kizzmekia Corbett.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP (on camera): Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Abby Phillip.

To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thank you for spending part of your Easter Sunday with us. Joe Biden campaigned for the White House as a, quote, transformational candidate, a bridge to the next generation of American leaders. But in his first months in office, he's governed as a president with far bigger ambitions.

And with infrastructure week finally here, his $2.3 trillion plan is one of the most sweeping presidential proposals in decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It will create millions of jobs, good-paying jobs. It will grow the economy, make us more competitive around the world, promote our national security interests and put us in a position to win the global competition with China. I'm convinced that if we act now, in 50 years, people are going to look back and say this was the moment that America won the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: The American Jobs Plan spends hundreds of billions on traditional infrastructure priorities like modernizing the nation's crumbling highways and bridges, replacing lead water pipes and major investments in subways, railroads and airports, but Biden's definition of infrastructure is broad.

It also includes huge investments for in-home health care, affordable housing, clean energy and high-speed Internet. He promises to pay for it by raising taxes on big companies and renewing his pledge not to raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000 a year.

But Republicans say it's a sham.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: It's like a Trojan horse. It's called infrastructure, but inside the Trojan horse is going to be more borrowed money and massive tax increases. I'm going to fight him every step of the way because I think this is the wrong prescription for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining me now with their reporting and insights is "Politico's" Ryan Lizza and CNN's Lauren Fox.

Thanks both of you for being here this morning.

So, Lauren, you heard Senator McConnell saying this is a Trojan horse. In some ways, it's not entirely off base to say this is not your grandmother's infrastructure bill. This is a bill that has more than just roads and bridges and shovel-ready projects. It's a lot of other things too.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. It's an ambitious plan. I think that what you have seen over the last several days is Democrats have been responding and trying to defend the president's plan here is that they are looking forward to the fact that Biden sees infrastructure as beyond roads and bridges. That he sees this as part of the care economy as well.

And, you know, this is just a piece of what Biden is going to roll out. In a couple of weeks we expect to see a broader families plan which will be even more on that human infrastructure side and that means that the price tag is going to be a lot bigger. I mean, you're starting to hear from some progressives that they wish this first plan would have been larger than it was.

You know, I was on a call with Representative Jayapal just a few days ago, she was making the point that she wished there was more spending but there's going to be pushback from some moderate Democrats on the other side because you are talking about spending $2.3 trillion on this piece of the package, potentially another $2 trillion on the next piece of the package. I mean, that's a lot of government spending.

Add in that the fact that we just passed a massive COVID relief bill a couple of weeks ago, I mean, you're starting to get up there in terms of what Biden is doing in terms of reimagining what the government can do for America.

[08:05:04]

PHILLIP: Yeah, and we'll get to some of the potential roadblocks that he could face from both the moderate wing of his party and the left wing of his party, but, Ryan, you spent some time talking to the Chief of Staff Ron Klain this past week.

And on this issue of bipartisanship, the White House is taking a very different view of it. Take a listen to what Ron Klain had to say to you about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON KLAIN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We want to move forward if at all possible on a bipartisan basis. I think there's some hope for that. In the end, let me be clear: the president was elected to do a job. And part of that job was to get this country ready to win the future. That's what he's going to do. We know it has bipartisan support in the country so we're going to try our best to get bipartisan support here in Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So bipartisan support in the country but maybe not on Capitol Hill. What does that really look like when it comes to actually getting a bill like this passed?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: First of all, it looks like I haven't moved or changed since Thursday when I did that interview.

PHILLIP: You haven't aged a day since Thursday.

LIZZA: I have left this stool.

Well, reading between the lines of that interview, they're not defining victory as bipartisanship. They are really driven by the lesson of 2009 when arguably Barack Obama did define victory by bipartisanship and in some ways he had to because he didn't have reconciliation to use for everything. He needed 60 votes for a lot of his legislation. So, I thought that was interesting. They're continuing this argument that they started with the COVID relief plan by citing polling, citing Republican mayors and some governors who support some of this infrastructure or at least who are open to it and saying, you know, Republican voters support this, Republican politicians out in the states support this.

So, you know, if 50 Republican senators don't like it, that's fine, it's still bipartisan. I didn't -- I don't see -- I'm sure Lauren has a view on this. I really don't see any Republicans right now who are stepping forward and are enthusiastic about what's in this package. Joe Biden is going to have some Republican senators over to the White House and, you know, we'll get a little bit more of a sense of where the moderates in the Republican Party are on this.

But right now, all the signs point to the Democrats using that arcane budget process known as reconciliation to push this through the Senate with 50 votes rather than 60.

PHILLIP: Right. So let's say that it's just a Democratic-led effort. You have another problem for Joe Biden. You've got actually a group of moderate Democrats who maybe they're the moderates that don't like the price tag but there are some moderates who want this bill to repeal what's called the SALT tax, something that affects high-income states like New York and New Jersey and you got a handful of moderates, Lauren, who are saying, we want this repealed, otherwise this bill doesn't fly.

Where does this situation stand right now in terms of negotiations?

FOX: Well, I think that the moderate Democrats feel like they had to put a line in the sand very early as they start having these negotiations with their leadership. I talked to Representative Josh Gottheimer just a little bit about his position on SALT this week and he was making the case that, yes, this does affect high-income earners but it also affects middle class earners in high tax states, and you named a few of those, California, New Jersey, New York.

Those are places where middle income family get hit by the fact that they cannot just deduct all of their state and local taxes, they can only deduct up to $10,000. And this was a major issue for Democrats back when there was the Trump fight over the tax bill that the Republicans passed.

And I think that they view this as a way to undo it. But it's difficult messaging because you're going to raise taxes on corporations, but you're saying you're OK when it, you know, something that costs more in terms of taxes when it comes to SALT.

PHILLIP: They're going to have to pay for it at some point, right?

FOX: Yeah.

PHILLIP: Lauren, before we go, I do want to get to what happened on Capitol Hill on Friday, yet another terrifying and tragic incident in which the Capitol was attacked. There was a loss of a capitol police officer. There are now these conversations happening again about what more needs to be done.

And the Capitol Police Union chair said that they are struggling to meet existing requirements for staffing on Capitol Hill. There's a sense that morale is extremely low.

Where do we go from here? What are lawmakers going to do to beef up perhaps their own security but really to protect these Capitol police officers who are on the front lines?

FOX: Well, you know, just a couple of weeks ago that fencing, the outer perimeter of the Capitol, it started to come down. I think there was a sense we were getting back to normal.

[08:10:02]

And, obviously, what happened on Friday was a reminder that this threat is ongoing. And when you're dealing with someone who's a lone wolf or someone who has just their own agenda, it's very hard to track any movements.

And I think that that is part of the unpredictability here. You can beef up your ability to monitor situations, you can make sure that you have all the intelligence, but you can't control for every situation. And morale is incredibly low among the Capitol Police force.

PHILLIP: Do you get the sense that the fencing might stay or come back?

FOX: Obviously, that's going to be a question that lawmakers are going to have to discuss when they get back from recess, because right now it just feels like this threat has not gone away.

PHILLIP: Absolutely. Thanks, Lauren Fox, for being here. And we'll see Ryan in just a few minutes.

But coming up next, corporate America rises up in opposition to Georgia's new voting restrictions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:25]

PHILLIP: Corporate America is flexing its muscle to oppose states that are implementing voting restrictions. The biggest sign so far, Major League Baseball says that it is moving its summer all-star game out of Georgia.

The state's GOP governor pushed back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEMP: Major League Baseball caved to fear and lies from liberal activists. It means cancel culture and partisan activists are coming for your business.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: The law in Georgia limits the number of drop boxes, requires IDs with absentee ballots and allows the state to take over a county election board. It also expands early voting times in some parts of the state, but at least 200 companies have criticized that Georgia law and others like it, and it was driven in part by an open letter signed by a dozen prominent -- dozens of prominent black executives urging more to speak out.

They wrote, quote: As business leaders, we cannot sit silently in the face of this gathering threat to our nation's Democratic values. We call upon our colleagues in corporate America to join us in taking a nonpartisan stand for equality and democracy.

And joining me now is one of the CEOs who organized this letter, former American Express CEO, Ken Chenault.

You know, Ken, thank you so much for being here.

We were discussing what a historic moment this seems to be, but I want to start with what is going on in Georgia with Major League Baseball. It's such a big move for that organization to do that. Do you think that they made the right decision to move the all-star game and draft out of Atlanta, Georgia?

KEN CHENAULT, FORMER AMERICAN EXPRESS CEO: I think what's very important here, Abby, is it's not just the issue in Georgia, in fact, there are proposals in 43 states. But with respect to Major League Baseball taking the action to move the all-star game, it really is a direct consequence of the action taken by the Georgia legislature to restrict voting.

I want to be clear that our group does not favor boycotts. What we are asking as you stated is that corporations publicly oppose this type of legislation that restricts voting. I think it's unfortunate, but I can understand the major league baseball's move. But we certainly wish it did not have to happen. But what we need to focus on in America is the fundamental right to vote. We cannot compromise on that right.

PHILLIP: Your open letter did spark more business leaders to speak out not just against the law in Georgia but against, as you said, voting bills considered in other places like Texas. You know, there's just an extraordinary characteristic of the letter. It's more than 70 black executives, a real critical mass of firepower here.

Do you believe that this pressure had to come from black executives like yourself for the rest of corporate America to follow and speak up and maybe put their money where their mouth is when it comes to issues like this?

CHENAULT: Let me say very clearly, Abby, this did not need to come from black executives, but we felt it had to come from us. Again, a fundamental right to vote is critical, but the path to the right to vote for black Americans has been torturous. And voting is very, very precious.

So this is about all Americans, but we felt as black Americans given the history and the struggles to gain the right to vote that we could not remain silent. And we are very encouraged by the response that we're getting from our colleagues in corporate America who recognize that this is all about preserving the American democracy because voting is the life blood of a democracy.

PHILLIP: There has, however, already been some backlash to these businesses voicing their opposition. Some members of Congress are threatening to strip away Major League Baseball's antitrust exemption. And in Georgia, state lawmakers tried and may repeal a tax break for Delta, which also spoke out this past week.

[08:20:04]

You have people like Senator Marco Rubio saying why are corporations speaking out about this but not speaking out about China. What's your response to that?

And are you concerned at all about the retaliation from Republican lawmakers to corporations that do decide to make a statement like the ones that we've already seen?

CHENAULT: Here's what I think is very important, Abby, is that what we are simply saying and what these corporate leaders who have taken this position are saying is the most -- one of the most basic rights in America, is the right to vote. It is a fundamental pillar of our democracy. And we have to stand against I didn't forces that are going to restrict the right to vote.

And so, the reality is this retaliation, when people say why don't you go on this issue versus this issue, tell me a more basic issue than the right to vote. And I think, frankly, this is one where companies recognize to preserve democracy, to preserve our society, we have to stand up for the right to vote. This is important for all Americans.

PHILLIP: I want to ask you before we go about what we're all watching this month, the trial of Derek Chauvin, the Minneapolis cop who is accused of murdering George Floyd. Since Floyd's death last year, have you noticed a shift in how companies speak up on social justice issues? And how did this trial as we're all watching it impact you personally?

CHENAULT: So first, let me say that this -- the trial and what happened with George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd, impacted me deeply personally because I had two friends who were killed by police.

Now, let me be clear, I support police, but I cannot condone obviously what has happened. It was a sickening feeling. An absolute sickening feeling to see this man murdered and for the world to see.

And if not for those cameras, we in fact would not know what had happened. What I have seen since the George Floyd murder is corporate America stepping up. And I think that it's not just the awareness, it's the understanding that corporations exist because society allows us to exist and we need to do what it takes to improve society and the recognition that race is America's greatest unsolved problem. And we need all stakeholders in our society to be focused on bringing

about true racial equality and economic opportunity for all, and justice for all.

PHILLIP: Ken Chenault, former America Express CEO, thank you for being here this morning. Thank you for sharing that with us.

This trial, I know, has brought up so many painful feelings in so many Americans, you know, whether you've experienced what you've experienced with your friends who were killed by police or not, but it's an important thing, I think, for all of us to watch. Thank you again for joining us this morning.

CHENAULT: Thank you for having me, Abby.

PHILLIP: And coming up next, does Joe Biden's infrastructure plan mark the end of the Reagan revolution?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:41]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: President Ronald Reagan took office 40 years ago with a promise to rein in government. It was the start of an era dominated by politicians of both parties promising to limit Washington's influence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We have worked to give the American people smaller, less bureaucratic government in Washington. And we have to give the American people one that lives within its means. The era of big government is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP

PHILLIP: But President Biden has promised to usher in a new paradigm of economic policy. His bet is that in the era -- in the post-pandemic era, Americans want more from their government. Biden's $2.2 trillion jobs plan is exhibit A.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It's not a plan that tinkers around the edges, it's a once in a generation investment in America, unlike anything we've seen or done since we built the interstate highway system and the space race decades ago. In fact, it's the largest American jobs investment since World War II.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [08:29:58]

PHILLIP: Joining us now with their reporting and insights, "Washington Post" economics columnist Catherine Rampell and "Politico's" Ryan Lizza. Catherine and Ryan, thanks for being here.

So Catherine, there is obviously an attempt on the Biden administration's part to really turn Reagan economic era politics and policies on its head and the coronavirus is a big part of this.

Take a look at this tweet sent by one of the top COVID advisers in the White House. And it really links this idea of the number of vaccinations hitting 4.1 million vaccinations this weekend to how government is operating. He says "People who say government can't do anything just have the wrong government."

Does Biden have a chance here to really maybe stop Reaganism in its tracks for the first time in several decades now?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, ECONOMICS COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON POST": I think to an extent it is true that Americans do have a much larger appetite today for bigger government, more muscular government than was the case in the past, certainly in the Reagan era. And some of that predates President Biden, to be clear.

So Gallup, for example, has been serving people for something like 30 years asking do you want the government to do more to solve big problems or do less and leave more to the private sector? And last September, so before the election, was the first time they had ever found that more than half of the public said we want government to do more.

So, you know, this is partly about Biden's rhetoric. This is partly about the fact that, you know, you've heard that there are no atheists in a foxhole, there are fewer libertarians in a pandemic and people are looking to government to solve big problems.

If you look at polling on the recently passed American Rescue Plan, that $1.9 trillion stimulus or fiscal relief plan, that was very popular, even when people were told -- actually it was more popular when people were told the price tag in some polling, and the same thing for this infrastructure package.

It's quite popular among Democrats and Republicans because government has let basically our physical infrastructure decay over the decades. And it's true, it's popular even when people are told a higher price tag than the one that the Biden administration has given. So there is a lot of support for again, robust government intervention.

PHILLIP: And Ryan, who would have thought that Joe Biden would be the one to propose, you know, maybe $5 trillion in spending in his first year? We're hearing also Biden officials talking about not tinkering around the edges, literally terminology that Senator Elizabeth Warren popularized during the campaign.

Who would have thought that we would be looking at a Joe Biden that is being talked in the same sentence as FDR and perhaps LBJ?

RYAN LIZZA, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO": Yes, he has done a really good job in bringing progressives into the tent. You know, as reporters, we're often sort of go-to, you know, progressives because they're usually -- on the left edge of the party, they're usually the ones that are going to speak up and criticize their leadership.

They tend to be the most vocal. And so far they have been very, very pleased with Biden both on a personnel level and on a policy level. He's done a really good job integrating the, you know, left, right and center of the Democratic Party.

On the -- you know, is the era of big government really over question I'm -- you know, I think we need to wait about, you know, another year to answer that question.

Remember in 1993 Bill Clinton passed the big economic package, tried to push through a big health care bill and in 1994 and there were similar commentary about, wow, Democrats can do big things again, the Reagan era is -- the Reagan/Bush era is over and then, of course, there was a massive backlash in the 1994 midterms. And by 1996 Bill Clinton is talking the way that we just showed him in that clip.

Barack Obama had something very similar in 2009. $800 billion stimulus, the ACA, financial reform, almost got through a big climate bill. Big progressive use of government. And again, there was commentary about Democrats can do big things again. In 2010 he lost Congress. In 2011 he's talking about deficit reduction.

What is interesting this time to me so far is that the opposition -- Republicans don't seem to have much of a -- they haven't had much success with the libertarian small government, he's going to raise your taxes argument yet. Republicans are still focusing on questions of culture and Dr. Seuss and all of that stuff and haven't had much traction with their traditional small government argument. I think the thing to watch for this year is does that change.

[08:34:59]

PHILLIP: One thing though to also watch as we talk about -- ok, we've got the precedence of Roosevelt, of Johnson, of Obama. Take a look at where Joe Biden is in comparison to those other presidents. He has a margin of error, so to speak, in the House that is just four votes. That's compared to 95 votes for Roosevelt, 77 votes for Johnson and 39 votes for Obama.

Similar story in the Senate, although all --- most of those presidents with the exception of Roosevelt for whom we don't have numbers have similar approval ratings in the 60s.

So, Catherine, I mean -- I guess I wonder from a practical perspective does Joe Biden just have the votes to do what he wants to do to raise taxes in order to pay for all of these perhaps transformative initiatives that he wants to go forward with? RAMPELL: So the big caveat that I would make to our whole discussion

about whether big government is in, is that Americans are much more supportive of the shared benefits of big government, not so supportive of the shared responsibility for funding big government.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Nobody likes to be taxed.

RAMPELL: Right. And so taxes on corporations, taxes on the rich are very popular today. That's a, you know, tradition in American history. We like to raise taxes on the rich and corporations and we should, in my view. Their tax rates are too low, they should be paying their fair share.

But if you look at the scale of the kinds of transformative government programs that Biden is talking about, not just in this infrastructure package but all sorts of other social safety net services -- child care, paid leave, et cetera -- it's going to be increasingly difficult to fund all of those kinds of things solely on the vanishingly small segment of the population that is still defined as rich, which Biden says is basically those making over $400,000 a year, which is only about 4 percent or 5 percent of the population.

If you look at other countries that have more robust social safety nets, you know, in Scandinavia, for example, they have much more broad-based taxes. Their taxes are higher but also more of the middle class pays higher taxes.

So it's going to be a really difficult model of government for this administration to sustain if they keep to their pledge of only putting the burden of paying for all of this stuff on the very wealthy, not putting any of the burden of it on the middle class and also paying for everything. It's a very difficult set of constraints to keep within.

And if you look at FDR, he initially started out funding his New Deal programs by soaking the rich. He had sort of these punitive taxes on high-income people. And eventually when he had won credibility with the public that the rich were paying their fair share, he asked the middle class to pay more as well to fund things like social security as well as more importantly World War II.

PHILLIP: Right. Yes.

RAMPELL: So you may see that evolution over the years.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean it's obviously easier to sell taxes on the rich, but that may not get you there when you have a really big price tag for a bill like this.

Catherine Rampell and Ryan Lizza, thank you both being here this morning.

And coming up next, it's been nearly a year since the death of George Floyd sparking a nationwide reckoning on race. And now the officer accused of his murder is on trial.

[08:38:17]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: It was an emotional first week of testimony in former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin's trial for the murder of George Floyd. Witnesses were forced to recall and reflect on the events of May 25th, 2020.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARNELLA FRAZIER, TEEN WHO RECORDED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH: When I look at George Floyd, I look at -- I look at my dad, I look at my brother, I look at my cousins, my uncles because they are all black. I have a black father, I have a black brother, I have black friends. And I look at that and I look at how that could have been one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Minneapolis covering the trial.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Abby, this was the first week of testimony and it really shed some light on the reality of this case. On the information side of things we learned what happened before police were initially called, that it was a teenage cashier who was wrestling over what he believed was a counterfeit $20 bill or to pay it out of his own pocket.

We learned what happened when medical personnel first arrived. That one of the paramedics testified he had to tell officers to get off of Floyd while another testified that for all intents and purposes when he arrived, he believed George Floyd was dead.

We learned what Derek Chauvin thought in the immediate aftermath after Floyd had been taken away in an ambulance. We overheard him on body camera audio played in court, defending himself to a bystander who took issue at what had just happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEREK CHAUVIN, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: We got to control this guy because he's a sizeable guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And that --

(CROSSTALK)

CHAUVIN: And it looks like he's --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw him get in the car --

CHAUVIN: -- looks like he's probably on something.

(END VIDEO CLIP) JIMENEZ: We also learned what his supervising sergeant at the time thought of that as he testified. Based on all the video he had seen, he believes Derek Chauvin used excessive force on George Floyd. While a separate police lieutenant testified that this type of use of force in this context was completely unnecessary.

But the week wasn't just about information, it was about emotion as we heard from people standing literal steps away from Floyd as he was under the knee of Derek Chauvin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was going through your mind during that time period?

CHRISTOPHER MARTIN, CUP FOODS CASHER: Disbelief. And guilt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why guilt?

MARTIN: If I would have just not took the bill, this could have been avoided.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And the feeling that persisted among all of them is this feeling of helplessness, that even after all these months they wrestled with the question of what could I have done differently, could I have stopped this from happening.

And when you look at all the video and evidence that was played in court, many say it's difficult to watch. As reporters, they say it's difficult to cover. And it's true.

But it's necessary as a reminder of the stakes in this case to show what is so oftentimes swept under the rug and moved over. And for many people watching this, just like the George Floyd family, they do not feel that it is Derek Chauvin on trial and just him. They feel it is America on trial.

[08:45:01]

JIMENEZ: And maybe it's coincidence that the verdict in this trial will likely come within weeks of the one-year anniversary of George Floyd's death. This true test of criminal police accountability in the United States comes in the face of a movement only emboldened by what just happened a year ago.

And when you talk to the Floyd family, many of whom have been in court day in and day out, at least one representative, you take Philonise Floyd, the brother, who was in court just a few days ago, and when you ask him how they are handling things, they are handling it like much of America is, one day at a time, Abby.

PHILLIP: Thank you, Omar Jimenez, for that.

And up next, a rare interview with NIH researcher, Kizzmekia Corbett. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Kizzy is an African-American scientist who is right at the forefront of the development of the vaccine. The vaccine that you're going to be taking was developed by an African-American woman. And that is just a fact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: On Easter Sunday, some encouraging news.

For the first time, the U.S. reported more than 4 million vaccinations in one day yesterday. It's a heartening trajectory as the push to get into herd immunity in this country continues.

Right now, more than 30 percent of Americans have received at least one shot, but cases continue to rise, averaging nearly 65,000 a day. And concerns about more contagious variants and a possible fourth wave have health officials on high alert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: So it's kind of like a race between getting people vaccinated. And the more people on a daily basis you get vaccinated, the better chance you have of blunting or preventing that surge.

Every day three to four million people are getting vaccinated. That is going to be the solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I talked to one of the scientists responsible for that solution. NIH lead vaccine developer, Kizzmekia Corbett, and asked her how she felt knowing she helped create one of the vaccines that could be responsible for stopping this pandemic.

[08:49:51]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIZZMEKIA CORBETT, LEAD SCIENTIST FOR CORONAVIRUS VACCINE RESEARCH, NIH: You know, I don't know, I haven't been able to really feel it in full, yet. Because there is this mix of is, oh my God, we did it. And attached to there is still work to be done. Attached to really what is, you know, still living in a pandemic.

PHILLIP: Last year, a year ago, as you were watching some of these racial disparities unfolding as the pandemic spread, how did you feel seeing black people and Hispanic people being disproportionately infected and killed and just suffer really severe consequences from COVID-19?

CORBETT: It was a very sad time for me. It wasn't just about the pandemic that is COVID-19, but there was this juxtaposition with, you know, George Floyd's murder and all of that, that really came together and just really put a burden on me in so many ways. And it made me get more motivated around what I needed to do as far as getting this vaccine out.

I understand that vaccines are really a way to help to level the playing field when it comes to health disparities. And so for me, it was motivating, but also very sad.

I think as I have looked back on the pandemic and my work and my team's work in the pandemic, I feel like it was my purpose, almost.

PHILLIP: Tell us about the journey to get to a point where this technology was ready in time for this very specific virus.

CORBETT: You know, the journey actually predates me, about 20 years. People, scientists, all over the world, have been working on Messenger RNA technologies to deliver all sorts of therapeutics, not just vaccines, but you know, cancer drugs and et cetera.

The concept is called pandemic preparedness. And so we have been working on this for, at least in the coronavirus field for about seven years now.

PHILLIP: So when people say I'm worried that this Messenger RNA technology is going to mess with my own DNA, what do you tell them?

CORBETT: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. You know, your cells deal with messenger RNA on a day in/day-out basis. This is how cells win (ph) things. So we are not telling the cells to do anything that they normally wouldn't do. Just giving them a little bit extra boost to produce a different type of protein so that you can alert your body to be protected against COVID.

PHILLIP: You have become this sort of ambassador, not just for the vaccine that you worked on the -- the Moderna one -- but for vaccines in general. You have been there with the Vice President Kamala Harris, Jesse Jackson Sr. T.D. Jakes has credited you with helping him get over some concerns or hesitancy that he might have had.

What did you say to him, for example, or to others that made a difference?

CORBETT: You know what, Abby, I think there is really nothing that you say. It's really about listening. There is a subset of people who just hasn't been listened to around their health issues and around, you know, technology, really.

And at this point I just -- I just felt like it was time for me to sit down and empathize with an entire group of people who had been ignored.

PHILLIP: This last year, we've also seen this pandemic really highlight what seems to be just a political polarization of science, in general? What was your reaction to watching that unfold as a scientist? CORBETT: Science is the truth. That's it. That's always my reaction to

anything -- to anyone who doesn't believe in science. Science is the truth. And eventually, the truth shall set you free.

PHILLIP: Are we ready for the next one, the next big pandemic?

CORBETT: We're going to get ready. We are certainly going to get ready. I think that if you can ever say anything good came out of this? One thing that did come out of this is that all in all every scientist on the globe understands that there are viruses that have pandemic potential and we better get ready.

PHILLIP: What about that messenger RNA technology, do you think that gives us a head start to be ready the next vaccine that needs to be created?

CORBETT: Absolutely. That is exactly how we think about it, plug and play. You really can drop just about anything into messenger RNA. And it works beautifully as we we're seeing. And I think that the utility of this technology towards vaccine, towards therapeutics, towards all sorts of things is just going to transform medicine in general.

PHILLIP: We are talking a lot about these variants that are coming up and whether the vaccines will be there to kind of combat that as quickly as we hope. What's your expectation on that front?

CORBETT: Right now, it looks like we have a good outlook around these vaccines, right. These variants are concerning. But this is exactly what the virus is built to do and the vaccine is eliciting such good immune responses that, while there's damper in efficacy probably, it won't completely obliterate the response, especially on a pandemic scale.

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PHILLIP: Do you have a sense of when we might know maybe a little bit more definitively about what that looks like? Can someone who is vaccinated transmit the virus and be infected themselves from the virus?

CORBETT: You know, I can't give you a sense of when we might know that. You know, data comes out in kind of real time these days.

But I think that the signs are pointing in the direction that at least vaccinated people might not be able to transmit virus because there is less shedding of virus. Which means that if you were to be vaccinated and come in contact with the virus, your body wouldn't replicate that virus to the point that you might be able to spread it to someone else.

But I think all in all, we're very hopeful about how well this vaccine is working not just on the disease perspective but towards the utility towards transmission.

PHILLIP: One thing that is so notable about you, obviously, you walk into a room, everyone notices you are a young woman, a young black woman. What has it been like to be such a prominent face in this scientific effort on a personal level?

CORBETT: You know, it's been fun. I will definitely admit that. I think it's been, it's been exciting to be able to be an inspiration. I'm happy to be invisible fit means that more people understand the science behind this vaccine and for vaccines to come.

PHILLIP: And more black and brown people are apparently applying to STEM programs in medical school, I mean during this pandemic. Why? Do you have any sense of why that might be?

CORBETT: You know, I don't know except for science is really cool. So I mean I can't blame them. You know, I think that there is a lot to be said about people seeing how science can really transform the world and how technology can really transform the world.

And when people see me, I'm sure that a lot of brown and black girls think that they can be scientists and, for certain, you can. Because if I did it, then you can, too.

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PHILLIP: And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. Join us back here every Sunday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern time and the weekday show as well at noon Eastern time.

But coming up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". And among Jake's guests this morning: Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Thank you again for sharing your Easter Sunday morning with us. Have a great day.

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