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Inside Politics

Chauvin In Restricted Housing Unit In Prison For His Safety; DOJ Opens Investigation Into Minneapolis Police Practices; Biden on Chauvin Verdict: "This Can Be A Moment Of Significant Change"; Columbus Police Officer Fatally Shoots Teenaged Girl Holding A Knife; White House Calls For Senate To Pass George Floyd Justice In Policing Act. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy, very important news day with us big announcement this morning from the United States Attorney General.

The justice department will now investigate Minneapolis police practices to determine if the department has a pattern or practice of employing excessive force and discriminating against minorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yesterday's verdict in the state criminal trial does not address potentially systemic policing issues in Minneapolis. Today, I am announcing that the justice department has opened a civil investigation to determine whether the Minneapolis police department engages in a pattern or practice of unconstitutional or unlawful policing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: As AG Garland laid out there his decision now following a verdict inside of Minneapolis courtroom. That verdict now echoing around the world, Derek Chauvin is guilty of murder. The conviction of the former police officer who murdered George Floyd in plain sight is a banner headline.

The Minneapolis star tribune convicted St. Paul pioneer press guilty. "The New York Times" Chauvin guilty of murder, "The Washington Post", Chauvin convicted on all counts. Chauvin is now in a Minnesota department of corrections custody in a restricted housing unit at the Oak Park Heights correctional facility.

His sentencing will happen in about eight week's time and the state says it plans to seek the harshest punishment possible. The verdict delivered late Tuesday afternoon set off a chain of nationwide celebrations. For George Floyd's family it offered some relief. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: It felt like I had just won a championship. It felt like the world had won a championship because as African Americans, we feel like we never get justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Never get justice. Very important words there from George Floyd's brother. Let's get some more details. Now in this busy news day on this new and intensive investigation into Minneapolis police practices announced this morning by the Attorney General Merrick Garland. Our Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. Evan, what does this mean?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, this is going to be a several months of a very invasive investigation of this police department. They're going to talk to members of the community to hear the stories of what they've been going through over the years. We've heard stories that this is not just one police stop that just went wrong that that there's just been a pattern in practice by this department.

And so that's one of the things that the investigators are looking at. They're going to be looking at everything from the training that these officers get to the supervision by the police officers, the investigations that are done, when people do complain.

They're going to look for patterns of excessive force or discriminatory conduct and whether the police have the training to handle people with behavioral issues. This is something that the new administration here the Merrick Garland's administration here at the justice department is focused on in a way that the last four years just worked.

We know that there were some successful pattern and practice investigations in the past ones in Los Angeles. There was one of Ferguson Police Department if you remember after the 2014 shooting of Michael Brown killing of Michael Brown.

Those agreements, John kind of went out with the new administration which viewed them frankly as demoralizing to police departments and didn't really look for to do these types of things.

So we expect John that Minneapolis is going to be the first of many. Garland was one of the first things he did in recent days was to rescind an order from the previous administration. This discovered - discouraged these types of agreements. And so we expect to see many more in the coming weeks and months.

KING: Evan Perez grateful for the reporting on this developing story. Let's get some more insights now from our CNN Legal Analyst, the former Federal Prosecutor, and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Elliot Williams.

Elliot thank you for your time today on the one hand, at first glance, this sounds like big brother, the federal government taking this oversight role of the Minneapolis police department.

But I know from your perspective, this is actually something that the chief is likely to welcome I think you believe and then it could lead to some good more quickly.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes and not even about the chief look, pattern practice investigations can be fully collaborative between the police department, the department of justice and the community if the parties are all willing to come together.

And if you think of it not as a matter of playing gotcha and wagging your finger at a police department, but as a way of everyone coming together to make policing better than yes, absolutely this is a collaborative process. I think you know, not to make this political you know, the last administration regarded these as inherently bad for morale.

[12:05:00]

WILLIAMS: The simple fact is these don't have to end in lawsuits, they can always end in a negotiated settlement between the community and the police department. And you know, it looks like well, I don't want to predict. But like you said, the police chief probably might signal some welcome-ness to working with the justice department here and we'll just have to see how it goes.

KING: And you can look at the available data traffic stops in white neighborhoods versus traffic stops in black neighborhoods. Charges filed against white people found with a little bit of marijuana charges filed against black people found a little bit of marijuana.

There's some data that's available to look at, but how much deeper does it go? I heard the Attorney General specifically mentioned response to protests. Are the police being too rough then? But I want to read you something this is from the initial police report of George Floyd's death.

Will the Attorney General, the justice department look at this to see if the department is cooking the books if you will? This is from that report. Man dies after medical incident during police interaction.

After he got out he physically resisted officers. Officers were able to get the suspect at the handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress officers called for an ambulance. Everything in that report is true. It is just grossly and recklessly out of context. Is that something? Is that a pattern and a practice?

WILLIAMS: All the above. Now you know, look, Josh Campbell, our friend on CNN, former FBI agent said a little bit earlier great point that no one really likes to feel like big brother or the feds are looking over their shoulder.

And certainly, you know, it might be tough for the Minneapolis police department to look inside itself for questions like this. But again, something we've learned over the last year something police have learned over the last year - we can all do better.

And this process when working properly is a way of ensuring that. And so even things like how the Minneapolis police department - I cook the books as a strong way to put it. But how they convey information is itself something that can affect community morale can affect the way the community regards the police department. And certainly if there was a way to improve they ought to do it.

KING: I want your perspective on what now faces Derek Chauvin, who is now a felon, he is now in prison, and he will be sentenced in eight weeks. He's no longer a police officer gets the presumption of innocence.

If you look at the charges and the sentencing recommendations, he could get a maximum sentence of 40 years for second degree murder. He could get a maximum sense of 25 years for third degree murder.

But if you look at the sentencing guidelines in the state of Minnesota, given the fact that he does not have a criminal history recommends a sentence of about 150 months. But the Attorney General has made clear since before this trial, that he believes there are my words aggravated or stimulating circumstances here to ask the judge to go beyond.

This is filed by Keith Ellison, the Attorney General back in October. There are at least five bases for an upward sentencing departure including that George Floyd, the victim was particularly vulnerable. And the defendant's police officers in full uniform abuse their position of authority and committing this crime.

Do you believe the Attorney General has a case? And Mr. Chauvin waived the right to have a jury do this, the judge, judge Cahill will decide this? Is there a strong case to have even harsher penalties?

WILLIAMS: I think there is look, take this out of - it's hard to take this out of a police versus the community context. But if you were to make this any other defendant committing a crime in relative plain view in front of a crowd, in a community of a vulnerable victim betraying the public trust.

If it's not a police officer and you laid out those factors, it would be a no brainer that this could be a sentence that could go above the sentencing ranges that that the Minnesota guidelines provide for.

So it's hard for everyone to think of - frankly, even the most reform minded people to think of police in the same way as regular defendants. But he is, he's a convicted defendant right now. And you saw him taken out of the hand, the court in handcuffs like any other defendant would have been.

And you know, this case is to some extent no different than any other. And so, you know, in all likelihood they end up above that 12 and a half months. But Judge Cahill hasn't indicated you know, typically where he's going to go. So we'll just have to see. KING: We will have to see and watch some of the back and forth between

the lawyers in advance of that sentencing hearing Elliott Williams, grateful for your important insights on this day. We'll stay in touch as the story unfolds more on last night.

And one remarkable moment, last night, just hours after the Chauvin verdict came in, the President and the Vice President at the White House weighing in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A measure of justice isn't the same as equal justice. This verdict brings us a step closer. And the fact is, we still have work to do. We still must reform the system.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This can be a moment of significant change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You heard the vice president right there called the verdict a measure of justice. But many police reform advocates want a future where justice equals something different. Look at this tweet here, accountability.

Justice would be George Floyd alive and thriving. That is from Alicia Garza. She's president of the principal of the black futures lab and she joins us now. Alicia, it is good to see you again.

[12:10:00]

KING: Just take me through we have talked before in the wake of George Floyd's death, about the mood on the street about the skepticism on the street that justice or accountability, in your own words would be done here. What was your reaction? And how does it feel? How does it settle in on a morning after?

ALICIA GARZA, PRINCIPAL, BLACK FUTURES LAB: Well, thanks for having me, John. And I'll just say, what we experienced yesterday was consequences. And you know, George Floyd's family member was absolutely correct that for black communities across the nation, we rarely see consequences when police commit crimes in our community.

And at the same time, there's a danger right now that what we are doing is confusing a guilty verdict with justice and resilience for our communities. The fact of the matter is just 20 minutes after this verdict was announced yesterday, a young girl in Columbus, Ohio was shot and killed by police after she called police for help.

And so we have to understand at some level that yes, there are always going to be small steps that help us think that these systems are working correctly. But I have to be honest with you, you know, at the end of the day what we have to be investigating right now is what does justice look like in our communities. And I will say that you know, for us at the black to the future action

fund justice looks like investing in our communities, investing in public safety, investing in relief and recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic.

We're investing in a robust democracy, investing in making sure that all of our communities have an opportunity to thrive. And if we are making those investments, there is not really a need for us to reform policing because policing ultimately becomes less necessary, if necessary at all.

I have to be honest with you John, when we talk about justice, we're actually talking about punishment. And punishment in this case, there should be consequences when somebody commits crimes in our communities, particularly the people who we resource, supposedly to keep us safe.

But at the end of the day John, what keeps us safe is what happens when we have the things that we need to live well. And so yes, the president and the vice president have some choices in front of them. I agree that this can be a moment of substantive change of significant change.

But it's going to take the political will and the political courage not to keep recycling, the same old solutions that don't work. We have to do more to move more resources into communities that are being targeted by unfair, unjust and predatory policing.

And we have to address the issues that policing is being put in front of to address which it can never address. Policing cannot address poverty in our communities, it cannot address the foster care system in our communities.

It cannot address the ways in which we are being kept from being able to make decisions over our own lives and the lives of the people we care about. So my hope here is that when we're starting to talk about justice that justice looks like reinvesting in our communities in such a way where there is not a need for this type of policing in our communities at all.

KING: Well help me from your perspective as an organizer, someone who's had great success in rallying in the community, usually after times of tragedy which is the sad part of it. When you do have and we have some pictures, I just want to show these faces again because this - you use the term accountability.

And we did see celebrations after this verdict yesterday because the community has so often been denied because the police so often have gotten off when the evidence is overwhelming. So you see a celebration, but you're absolutely right.

George Floyd is dead. His family does not get him back. So you have accountability. I want you to listen here to another mother who lost a child. This is Gwen Carr, Eric Garner's mother who sees a small opportunity here, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: This verdict actually seems like we are pivoting into the right direction. Like with my son's death, we did not have this type of cooperation from the police department from the mayor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I understand completely. I don't know if skepticism is the right word. But your test, I want to see it today, tomorrow, next week, next month and next year.

But do you agree there that this verdict and when you see the Attorney General saying a pattern and practices investigation in Minneapolis, that at least there are people who see this as a moment where perhaps this is a building block, but the proof now is do more?

GARZA: Absolutely. And for so many families across the country who did not receive any kind of acknowledgement that something wrong had happened when they lost their family member when their family member was stolen from them in a way that was absolutely unnecessary.

[12:15:00]

GARZA: Of course, this feels like something is changing and a lot has changed. Our culture is shifting. And what I think we're pushing for here is to say, let's be bold in our shifts.

Let's not just say that this in and of itself, the mere acknowledgement that something wrong happened is justice. That actually what justice looks like is our families thriving, our families having the resources that we need to live well.

Our families having the resources that we need to participate in the decisions that impact our lives every single day. And I think that so many of us would agree and say you know, if we were to make these kinds of investments in our communities, then that is the thing that actually prevents these kinds of issues from happening in the first place. It prevents families from having an empty seat at the dinner table.

KING: Alicia Garza grateful for your time today. Let's keep in touch to continue the conversation. And we'll see if everybody, everybody whether it's activists in the community to the President of the United States meets the test you just laid out in the weeks ahead.

Appreciate your time today very much I'm grateful for it. And sadly, as Alicia just noted up next for us another police officer involved shooting this time in Ohio, a teenage black girl is dead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

KING: As a plea for calm in Columbus, Ohio today following a police involved shooting that took place just moments before the Derek Chauvin verdict came down. A Columbus police say an officer shot and killed a teenage girl who allegedly was trying to attack two other girls with a knife.

There his body cam video and in a rare move the police released it quite quickly. CNN's Nick Valencia's tracking this force. Nick, what do we know?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think it deserves to be underscoring John just how rare this is that police released footage of a fatal police shooting less than 24 hours after an incident happens. And of course it begs the question would they have done the same thing if they believe that their officer may have been in the wrong.

But this is a story that started to pick up a lot of steam on social media certainly trending on social media and police said they wanted to get ahead of the rumors. They not only released video of the incident in full time but also a slow motion video, which appears to show a fight happening as officers arrive, a fight that escalates just as officers are on the scene.

And what you're looking at here we have to warn you. It is slightly graphic here. You see Ma'Khia Bryant, Bryant there on the left hand side of your screen what appears to be a knife in her hand there spot shadowed and she's drawing it back as if to use it.

And just then there the police officer whose body cam - body camera footage that you're seeing from his perspective fires four shots there. The Mayor of Columbus gave an emotional address last night saying that police it appeared had to use that force in order to save another young member of the community.

But this is what a neighbor of Ma'Khia Bryant who's 16 years old, just 16 years old shot and killed by police yesterday in Columbus. This is what our neighbor told new day this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IRA GRAHAM III, NEIGHBOR OF TEEN KILLED IN OHIO POLICE SHOOTING: It sounded at the time as if Ma'Khia was merely just trying to defend herself. I've had a chance to look at the video. And I must say it seems to show a little bit of a different story. I can certainly see why the police officer chose to stop her now whether or not less lethal force come in use.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: There are some people that are only going to see the headline and not get much beyond that. Another young black person in the United States killed by a police officer but it is very complicated.

Not only did this video get released less than 24 hours, the incident happened about 30 minutes before the verdict was read in the Derek Chauvin trial. And of course it goes without saying John, it happened in a time of particular tension in this country and conversations about policing and what it means to be black in America.

Further complicating it is that reports local reports there that Ma'Khia Bryant was actually the one that called police. That is going to be part of the investigation. We'll see how that all plays out, John.

KING: That's the important part that initial transparency welcome, but it should be all the time. And we should get to all the facts in this case.

VALENCIA: Right.

KING: As well as the other Nick Valencia grateful for the hustle.

VALENCIA: Thank you.

KING: And the reporting there. Up next for us George Floyd's death remember sparked coast to coast demand for police reforms. But a national proposal is stalled in the congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

KING: The death of George Floyd 11 months ago galvanized the push for police reforms. But a big national reform proposal is stalled in the United States Senate because of Republican opposition. Its backers hope the verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial yesterday creates a new opportunity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: My conversations with the Floyd family, I spoken again today. I assure them we're going to continue to fight for the passage of George Floyd Justice and Policing Act.

HARRIS: This bill is part of George Floyd's legacy.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We will not rest until the senate passes strong legislation to end the systemic bias in law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Democratic Congressman Jamaal Bowman of New York joins us now.

Congressman, grateful for your time today.

Just moments ago, Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, who's a key voice on this issue -- the key to getting a bipartisan bill -- said that he's been talking to your colleague, Democratic Congresswoman Karen Bass, and he believes tremendous progress is being made, including on some compromised language on the issue of immunity -- qualified immunity for police departments or police officers.

Do you share his optimism? He said he believes something could be -- a deal could be struck in a week or two. REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): So, I do share the optimism, but it's one

day at a time, and there's a lot of work to be done.

Regarding the issue of immunity, what we want is accountability. That's the bottom line. When police violate the civil rights, human rights, and possibly kill someone, they need to be held accountable for it in the same way anyone in any profession is held accountable when they do something wrong. So, I'm glad that people are optimistic.

Yesterday was about accountability, not about justice. Justice would be George Floyd still being with us today. Justice is Tamir Rice still being alive -- it's so many others who have been killed by police.

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