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Inside Politics

Biden Sells Infrastructure Overhaul, "These Are Things That Only Government Can Really Do"; Nearly One-Third Of Americans Do Not Believe Biden Legitimately Won Presidency; CNN Poll: Big Partisan Divides Over How The Country Should Vote; Analysis: Deaths In The U.S. Down 80 Percent From Peak, Vaccines Playing a Role; Soon: Biden Visits Philadelphia To Sell Infrastructure Package. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 30, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy news day with us, a big milestone today. The United States has now fully vaccinated 100 million Americans plus from the president a big marker for the fall.

President Biden says all kids should be back in the classroom to begin the next school year and some other big headlines. Rudy Giuliani says he did nothing wrong. Yet there is this new wrinkle.

The Washington Post reports the Former New York City Mayor and Trump confidant was warned back in 2019, that he was associating with bad actors and that the Kremlin was trying to use him in an intelligence operation.

Up first though, President Biden's big challenge and how it is complicated, very complicated by a dark stain of the Trump legacy. The president heads to Philadelphia this afternoon, Vice President Harris is in Cincinnati.

Their goal is when public support for new Biden initiatives that promise jobs and promised a stronger social safety net, but they require a giant expansion of federal power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well first of all, the facts don't reflect that I don't have any inordinate faith in government. But there are certain things only the government can do.

We rank number eight in the world in terms of infrastructure, for god's sake, is a private sector going around and build billions of dollars or the highways, ports, airports, bridges. Are they going to do that? And so these are things that only government can really do.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: That's a tough sell for the president a tough sell anyway, given this country's polarized politics and the extraordinarily slim democratic margins in congress. It is an even harder sell though, because of Trump's reckless big lie. A significant slice of the country questions the legitimacy, the very legitimacy of the Biden presidency. Let's look at these new numbers in our CNN poll. This is stunning.

It's depressing. 30 percent of Americans three in 10 Americans say no. Joe Biden did not legitimately win the presidency. 30 percent of Americans still believe that it's a lie. But 30 percent of Americans still believe it. Break it down by party. 90 percent - 97 percent of Democrats, they get it the election was free and fair.

Joe Biden is President, but seven in ten Republicans still say the President of the United States is an illegitimate president. Seven in ten Republicans say that and 27 percent of Independents say that.

Imagine how much this complicates President Biden's efforts to talk to the country when 70 percent of Republicans think he doesn't deserve the job that he has. Now you would think months would pass the election is over.

This would fade it has faded some but not much in 58, in January 58 percent of Republicans said there was solid evidence not just Donald Trump says but solid evidence.

Biden did not win enough votes. Now that's down to 50 percent among Republicans, but still half of Republicans still say they believe there's solid evidence like to see it because there is none. But that's what half of Republicans believe.

This complicates Joe Biden's job trying to talk to the American people, all Americans it also is part of the reason Republicans are doing this. Republicans still say there was all this nefarious conduct in the 2020 election therefore we're going to change the rules.

From coast to coast Republicans have proposals. Right now there are about 55 restrictive bills making their way not just proposed but making their way through legislators in 24 states. This is as of late March. These debates are everywhere.

Just last night in Florida the legislature did clear remember Trump won Florida when it pretty easily but Republicans still want to change the rules heading into 2022. The new bill adds new id requirements for voting by mail.

It limits who can return a mail in ballot. It limits drop box access; a lot of voters use those during the pandemic the drop box access. And it is actually penalized as fines for election officials who don't impose and strictly follow the new lockbox rules and prohibits the use of nonprofit and private funds to conduct the elections.

Again the Republican - the Governor of Florida's Republican Donald Trump won quite handily. But listen to Governor Ron DeSantis. He says he will sign this bill and he says it's necessary. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): We've had voter id, it works the right thing to do. We didn't do unsolicited mail ballots this last election we made sure the right people were in place. There's always we counted 11 million votes by midnight on election night.

It was free it was fair with transparent. So we think we lead the nation but we're trying to stay ahead of the curve to make sure that these elections are run well. But in Florida, you can have confidence that your vote counts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share their reporting and their insights, the Editorial Director of Vote Beat, U.S. Jessica Huseman and CNN's Abby Philip, anchor of course of Inside Politics Sunday. I want to start I want to get to some of these restrictions, the continuing Republican effort to restrict in a minute.

But I want to start with just the damning effect on government that this big lie has and I want to just bring put the numbers back up there if you could. 70 percent of Republicans were 100 days into Joe Biden's presidency. 70 percent of Republicans think the president did not legitimately win. That's - it's wrong but there it is. They firmly believe this.

[12:05:00]

KING: Now let's listen to why they believe in Abby Philip because Donald Trump continues 100 days into the Biden presidency to spew this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is an interesting audit the forensic audit going on right now and Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what are your thoughts on that?

TRUMP: Keep your eye on that. I have no question, we won Arizona. If the election is honest, they're not going to be sending 103 lawyers, what do they have to hide?

And I think the whole 2020 election was totally crooked, and many people agree with be tied to government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was my point.

TRUMP: Much more, thinks it was a fake election. No, I won the election. Anyway, I ran two elections. I wanted both--

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Donald Trump is right about one point there. He's right about one point that most of that is a lie. It is hard to govern the country. When people think it was a bad election. He's responsible for that belief. And Joe Biden happens to be a Democrat.

It doesn't matter what party the current president is, when 70 percent of the other party thinks you're illegitimate. It is hard to make your case on anything. He's trying to sell his policies now someday he may have to stand up after a natural disaster after a terrorist event. This is just a damning piece of the Trump legacy.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I think that it actually explains a little bit why you see Republicans flirting with the big lie in the way that they are.

Most of these lawmakers especially in Washington know that this is a lie that there was no voter fraud that, that they - there's really no evidence to support any of these restrictions that are - that are being passed in dozens of states.

But what it does is it casts out on the existing administration, which is beneficial to them in the long run. The problem is that it's damaging in the - in the long run to the democratic process, because you know, you have an entire party that is basically believing a lie for which there is no evidence of and then attempting to restrict voting.

The Florida example is so interesting. In a state where Republicans utilize mail in voting, they don't even know what the consequences will be for their own party as a result of some of these restrictions.

KING: That's a fascinating point about Florida. I want to get that one second. But I just want to echo what you just said. It's just hard, hard for reasonable Republicans who maybe don't if they oppose Biden on this, that and the other thing. But they want to work with him on one thing.

It's hard to do when you go home and seven and ten people vote for you think Joe Biden is a legitimate president, it's really hard. Jessica, come in on the point Abby made in the end there though, on this new Florida law.

I just want to read you a little bit from the Sarasota Herald-Tribune Editorial Board. For a body with so many members who claim to be champions are protecting individual liberties, the Florida Legislature sure has serious trust issues when it comes to actually allowing Floridians to fully express and embrace those freedoms.

The move by the senate to approve these needless voting restrictions is a disappointing show of contempt for Floridians who deserve the simple right to be able to vote as easily as possible, through as many legitimate avenues as possible.

You heard Governor DeSantis he says this is great. But it does restrict it. It rolls back what was available to Florida voters in November as we head into 2022.

JESSICA HUSEMAN, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, VOTEBEAT: It absolutely does. The best way to describe this law is a grab bag of all of the most favorite restrictive Republican measures across the country rolled into one law. And so it is, in my opinion far worse than the law that was passed in Georgia a few weeks ago that caused so much controversy.

This will have a much more direct impact on voters as they go to the polls. And it's especially puzzling in Florida because in the days after the election, Governor Ron DeSantis was hitting the airwaves every day talking about how there weren't any problems in Florida.

And Florida was the pinnacle of election administration. And he's not incorrect. Florida was very smoothly run. There were no problems. And this very restrictive bill is an effort to create a solution where a problem doesn't exist. It's puzzling.

KING: And you see more of this. Abby in our poll, we're supposed to fight about taxes and spending. We're supposed to argue about school choice. We're supposed to argue and debate a lot of things that's healthy in a democracy. We should not be debating democracy.

And yet if you look at our poll, look at these numbers up there. Rule would make U.S. elections fairer. You see Democrats want to ensure earlier voting on evenings and weekends. Democrats are heavily favoring that Republicans about half look at limiting drop box access to voting hours.

Republicans want that Democrats think it's a bad idea. Democrats want to send absentee ballots to everybody. Republicans think it's a bad idea. Republicans look at that nine in ten Republicans want voter id only four in ten Democrats say that.

For democracy to work, there has to be a basic consensus just about the rules, fairness, how to do this, then we can fight about the results and we can fight about policy.

PHILLIP: Yes, it's so interesting to me, because on many of those issues with the exception of voter id so when we're talking about early voting drop boxes absentee ballot applications.

[12:10:00]

PHILLIP: These are all things that were in - problems that were invented by former President Trump to explain a really simple phenomenon, which is that he got fewer votes than the other guy.

And what has been interesting is to see this seeping into the consciousness of Republican voters, where they now believe without any evidence that those things are related to some kind of fraud. There's absolutely no evidence of any of this.

And so this is a lie that has now become part of the firmament for Republicans. They all believe it; they all will back it up, even in states like Georgia and Florida, where they did not have problems with those things.

Even those Republican officials are now saying, well, it's about election security. That is how the big lie creeps into the mainstream. It's now part of the system. And it's problematic because there's really no evidence to support any of this stuff. And it's all because one person lost an election. KING: The evidence actually supports that most Republicans know it is a lie. Because why would you restrict the right people to vote you lost. That's why you lost and you know you're lost. And so you're trying to restrict the right of the people who cost you the election.

Jessica, Abby, grateful for the reporting and the insights. Want to move on now to new detail of another hugely important story the growing legal jeopardy facing Rudy Giuliani. The Former New York City Mayor and Trump confidant sat for an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News last night he denied any wrongdoing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Evidence is exculpatory. It proves that the president and I and all of us are innocent, they are the ones who are committed. It's like, it's like projection, they're committing the crimes, that warrant is completely illegal.

The only way you can get a search warrant is if you can show that there's some evidence that the person is going to destroy the evidence or is going to or is going to run away with the evidence. Well, I've had it for two years and I haven't destroyed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Federal agents serve search warrants at Giuliani's apartment in his office in New York City this week. What sources described to CNN as a clear escalation in an investigation now focused on Giuliani's potentially illegal work in Ukraine.

Let's bring in our CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Evan Perez. Evan walk us through what this means and the signals from Giuliani's Attorneys that they will fight and fight and fight to keep these materials secret.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, look, I think from what from those comments that Giuliani has making, you can tell that they are planning to dispute everything, including what the justice department is able to do with the materials that they took.

I believe there are about nine devices that they took from Giuliani's home, his address - his office and from his assistant, one of his assistants.

And so the Justice Department creates a team that essentially goes through to make sure that any attorney client material is separated from any information that is given to the investigators who are doing the investigation who are targeting who are looking into Giuliani himself.

And so there's a process that exist. And what can happen in this Giuliani's team and perhaps even President Trump's legal team could go to court and make that more difficult make that a more drawn out process and I think that's what you're hearing from Giuliani at this point. Look, there's a - there's plenty of reason to believe that Giuliani

has known for a couple of years that some of the people he was working with in Ukraine were connected to Russian intelligence that there was a foreign disinformation campaign, including the campaign by the way to get rid of the then Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, who was you know, was ousted as a result of this campaign.

So we'll see what, what legal process they try to go through, but you can tell they're planning to fight.

KING: They're planning to fight and you mentioned the region near "The Washington Post" story today getting more detail to that, that he was warned right on back in 2019. That look you're associating with bad people we think the Kremlin is trying to use you essentially isn't what the story says.

PEREZ: Right. That's what the post said. We haven't confirmed this. And it's a very strange warning for the FBI to give, especially because he was under investigation at the time. But keep in mind, John, Bill Barr went and told the president and the White House was also told about this.

But there's really not much anybody can do when the president wants Giuliani out there doing this.

KING: Right, I was just going to say the president could have said stop but that didn't happen. Evan Perez grateful for the reporting and the insights, we'll stay on top of that story. Up next for us the latest from the Biden Coronavirus team includes a big milestone, 100 million Americans now fully vaccinated.

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[12:15:00]

KING: A big new number announced today at the Biden team COVID briefing. 100 million, 100 million Americans now fully vaccinated. The Biden team hopes you will look at the numbers I'm about to show you and say things are getting better.

And they would get even better if the rest of America would hurry up and get a vaccine. Let's walk through some of these numbers, number one, the case timeline. It's hard to say the 58,000 new COVID infections is good news. So I won't but it is better news.

If you look we're averaging now 51,000 new infections a day. If you go back to January you see the peak, we have come down significantly. The goal is to push this down even more. But it is down from above 70,000 just a week or two ago. So that number is starting to drop.

If you look at - look at it from this perspective, though the CDC now projects that four times more Americans have actually been exposed to COVID than the official numbers show, right? This is four times 35 percent of the American population, the CDC estimates has actually been exposed to COVID-19. Again, there's no good news in this chart, there is somewhat better

news. And you see 854 of our fellow Americans died yesterday from COVID. That is still a stunningly sad number, but deaths are down 80 percent.

Deaths are down 80 percent from the January peak and the vaccines the experts will tell you have something to do with that. Even people who get COVID vaccinated if you're vaccinated, you don't get serious COVID.

So let's look at the snapshot right now. 30 percent of the population fully vaccinated. 43 percent of the population has at least one dose that means there's more fight if you will more immunity to COVID out there in the system.

The pace of the vaccine rollout though has actually slowed. And this is not as some of its access but a lot of this is hesitancy.

[12:20:00]

KING: You see now down to 2.6 million on average, this was above three point million when we were having this conversation a week, 10 days ago. The administration hopes to ramp that up, but people have to schedule appointments to do that.

That is why listen to this, this is Jeff Zients. He runs the Biden COVID team saying yes, 100 million is a great number. But if more people would get their vaccines you want a normal life get that shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Today 100 million Americans are fully vaccinated. That's 100 million, nearly 40 percent of all adult Americans who are now fully vaccinated with protection from COVID-19 two weeks after getting their last shot.

100 million Americans who can follow the new CDC guidance released this week. And enjoy going to the park with their family dining and socializing with their friends outside in many more outdoor activities without needing to wear a mask.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share her expertise and her insights, our Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen, the former City of Baltimore Health Commissioner, contributing columnist for the Washington Post. Dr. Wen, it's great to see you.

Connect the dots for somebody out there watching. More vaccinations again, 50,000 new COVID infections a day are still too high, but it is - it's going down progressively connect the dots of why that matters.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I actually think, John that we were in the middle of what would have been a fourth surge. We saw outbreaks and really high levels of infections in places like Michigan, but we didn't see this massive surge that the way that we did over the holidays and previously, because the rate of vaccinations has been increasing.

And when people are vaccinated, that means that the infections that otherwise would have ripped through their communities like wildfire didn't happen. And so I do think that we are headed into a much better place this summer. I think it'll also help that warmer weather people are going to be outside.

But I also do worry that the hardest part is going to be ahead of us. Because I also think that people are going to get complacent. And those who are on the fence noun, they may not get vaccinated because they don't see the crisis anymore.

And I think that's why demonstrating that vaccines are so effective and allow us to get back to our normal lives is going to be so important. Because we really need to show people that vaccines work and that you can change your behaviors after being fully vaccinated.

KING: Right, you're adding psychology, if you will, to the public health dynamic and telling people if you want that better life. And in that regard, you think these are my words, not yours. But you think the president kind of blew it the other night?

And I want to explain what you mean in the Op-ed that they are - if the president's messages get your vaccination, then you can do not have to wear a mask outside. You can have bigger gatherings, not that you can't do reckless things, but you can start to get back to a closer normal life.

You're right in the Washington Post to be sure it was terrific to see President Donald Trump's many mask less, packed super spreader events in the midst of the worst of the Coronavirus surge. But the message coming from Biden isn't right either.

Over-correction has a price at best; it makes public health measures seem per formative rather than science-based. At worst, it calls vaccine efficacy into question. So you think they haven't found the sweet spot? What should it be?

DR. WEN: I think there are a lot of Americans, who are wondering right now, what's in it for me if I get vaccinated. And I think it's hard for another part of the country to understand who really desperately wanted these vaccines and said, wait, these vaccines are saving your life.

What do you mean, what's in it for you? But I think a lot of people are thinking, well, maybe I'm young, I'm pretty healthy. I'm not really that worried about COVID. So if these vaccines are supposed to be so effective, why can't I change my behaviors afterward?

And I think a lot of people are looking for hope. And I think it would be helpful for President Biden to start demonstrating some behaviors that are safe and actually very low risk once he has them fully vaccinated.

So for example, taking off his mask when he's outdoors and not around anybody else or even in small meetings with fully vaccinated aids and making a point of saying, we are all vaccinated. That's why we're able to be together with one another.

We can have close contact, we don't need masks. That's - that helps to illustrate the path forward. It's not reckless behavior. Actually, it's the opposite. It's demonstrating the effectiveness of these vaccines and allowing us a back a way to return back to normal.

KING: That's fascinating point and we will watch if - maybe take your advice, Dr. Wen grateful for your time at this important moment, up next for us President Biden's big push to boost the economy.

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[12:25:00]

KING: President Biden heads to Philadelphia shortly that's part of a swing state tour to sell his multi trillion dollar infrastructures and economic plan. The rollout comes amid new proof the economy is gaining steam. Now Biden critics say that gaining steam is proof more spending is not needed right now. But the president says those critics are short sighted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The reason why it's recovered because we're investing, look how rapidly it's recovered since we passed the last piece of legislation. And that legislation was $1.9 trillion.

If we don't invest in this country, we're going to actually start to - we're going to fall behind even further.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Seung Min Kim, White House Correspondent for "The Washington Post" joins me now. Seung Min, it's great to see you. This is a fascinating sales test for the president and his team, no votes despair really, a handful in the house no votes to spare in the Senate.