Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Former Navy Pilots Describe "Unsettling" UFO Sighting; Biden Faces Global Pressure to Help End Hostilities in Israel, Gaza; Biden Under Pressure to Help End Escalating Violence in Israel; CDC Director: People Need to be Honest With Themselves About Mask-Wearing; Trump Pushes "The Big Lie" in Arizona Amid 2020 Election Audit. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 17, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: One of the big concerns is the national security threat could an adversary be building and flying these things right into U.S. air space and that's one of the big reasons a lot of people think it's high time to find out exactly what is going on, Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: It is extraordinary. Good to see you, Barbara, thank you so much. And thank you all so much for joining us at this hour. I'm Kate Bolduan. John King picks up our coverage right now.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello, everybody and welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing what is turning out to be a very busy news day with us.

President Biden delivers the speech on the COVID vaccination effort next hour. The United States today nearing a new milestone 50 percent of Americans who have received at least one shot cases are down, deaths our down, hospitalizations are down all that is quite promising.

But there is still some head scratching today over new relaxed CDC masking guidance more on the pandemic and the challenges a bit ahead in the hour. But we begin with bombs destruction and resignation no end in sight to the violence between Israelis and Palestinians.

Rocket sirens pulsing overnight, Hamas and Israeli Defense Forces firing artillery across the border the death toll climbing steadily along with the anger attempts to broker a truce or stall the senior Hamas source tells CNN.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went on American television Sunday and made a promise to do "Whatever it takes to restore order and quiet". President Biden spoke to both Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas over the weekend.

But Abbas does not speak for Hamas, the terrorist group raining down rockets on Israeli civilians. This complicated global challenge has domestic political ripples. Progressive Democrats see Netanyahu as a human rights abuser they want President Biden to recalibrate U.S. support for Israel.

But listen here to the Secretary of State Tony Blinken today in Copenhagen; he draws a very clear line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There is no equivalence between a terrorist group indiscriminately firing rockets at civilians, and a country defending its people from those attacks.

So we call on Hamas and other groups in Gaza to end the rocket attacks immediately. I've also said that I believe Israel as a democracy has an extra burden to do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, even as it defends itself, and its people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get straight to CNN's Nic Robertson. He's near the Gaza border and Nic more rocket volleys this morning from Gaza, more airstrikes from Israel. Do we have any sense of if and when this might end?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, John, I think as we'll be talking over the next minute or so you may get us - you may get the same sense of that as I'm getting here on the ground. We're at an artillery position, Israeli Defense Force artillery position. They've been racing out additional artillery around so these guns behind me here.

And there's another one of them firing off. They're firing big artillery shells into Gaza. We don't know what they're targeting. But we do know in the past, when they've been heavy artillery barrages like this, they've been intended to strike Hamas' tunnels, that vehicle you can hear it racing by me there is the one that's bringing the fresh artillery shells to those guns.

So the fact that it is racing back to get more and it'll race back to those weapon systems with these fresh artillery shells is sort of the answer. Right now the guns here are speaking louder than the diplomats are being able to be heard.

What we've been told by a senior Hamas official is the truce that was being discussed over the weekend involving Egyptian officials, Qataris and the United States. Hamas sources say, had two stumbling blocks. And that was one that they said that they wanted Israel to stop what they describe as provocations in Jerusalem.

And they said that Israel demanded that they go on a ceasefire, first by three hours and they said that was unacceptable to them. Now, we don't know what Israel's position is on that. But you hear behind me really what's happening today, John?

KING: Nic Robinson for us on the ground near the Gaza border. Nic, please stay safe as you continue to watch these dramatic developments. Let's shift now the Biden White House says it is tirelessly pushing for an end to this Israeli Palestinian violence.

But should the President himself be doing more? The veteran Middle East Negotiator Aaron David Miller is among those who say, yes, Biden seeming lack of urgency and indifference in pressing for an Israel/Hamas standout is troubling.

The Former State Department hand tweets longer this goes on the greater danger of a mass casualty event on either side that could spur even more death and destruction. Let's get straight to our Senior White House Correspondent Phil Mattingly.

Phil, you know, the pressure from the diplomat, some veteran diplomat says why is it the president more out front? You just heard in the span of a minute there three Israeli tank firings of artillery across the border? What is the White House answer when you ask what is the president doing and should it be more?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House answer is doing pay attention to what you're seeing. Publicly what we're doing is mostly behind the scenes. Look, I don't know that that's going to be enough.

[12:05:00]

It certainly hasn't been enough for many from some veteran diplomats and certainly some Democrats on Capitol Hill asking the president to be more out front asking the president in some cases with some more progressive Democrats to be more robust in his condemnations of Israel, something that the president and his team, you mentioned Secretary of State Tony Blinken have made clear they are not going anywhere near right now.

What you see, I think, despite what you may see, with the broader Democratic Party, in their shift as it pertains to Israel, at least in sub segments of that party is the president is not in that place. The president for more than five decades has been a traditional supporter of the State of Israel and its rights.

And he has made clear in every public comment he's made that he supports those rights. What you've heard from administration officials, is not necessarily what you're going to see from the president publicly, though, he's weighed in on it a couple of times.

Obviously, you mentioned he's had two calls with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, but it's what's happening behind the scenes. Jake Sullivan, the president's National Security Adviser just a short while ago said he'd had conversations with his counterpart in Israel.

But also and I think this is important. And Nic alluded to this as well, that he's been speaking with the Egyptian government. Jake Sullivan has been in regular contact with several key players in the region that they believe the White House believes could help lead given they don't have direct contact with Hamas to some type of peace negotiation to some type of ceasefire, negotiation.

That seems to be the pathway they're pursuing right now. But again, the pressure is growing on the president to do more publicly, John.

KING: Phil Mattingly at the White House I appreciate the live reporting with me in studio to share their reporting and their insights "POLITICO's" Laura Barron-Lopez and Catherine Lucey of "The Wall Street Journal".

Two White House reporters who are watching a new president go through what many of his colleagues' predecessors have gone through, in the sense that the challenge might even be more for President Biden than some of his past predecessors in the sense that Netanyahu has been unable to form a government for months.

Abbas delayed the Palestinian elections, you have political dysfunction on both sides, if you will, plus Abbas really does not speak for Hamas. And so you see all this understandable pressure, the United States step up, do something, but what can he do?

CATHERINE LUCEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: You're right; this really is perhaps the biggest crisis at this point that the president had to face. And it comes as he really would like to be doing other things.

We've not seen him focus heavily on this conflict as president thus far. He really would rather be focusing on his domestic agenda. But the pressure is mounting as the civilian casualties mount. I think that's what you're hearing, you know, from, as Phil said, you know, from progressive Democrats, but also for some senior or Democrats Senator Menendez, for example you know, expressing concern about the casualties.

And I think the president is sort of taking traditional actions. He is reaching out. He is making calls. The administration says it's working around the clock. But so far, they have been reluctant to move off of his sort of traditional positions and his viewpoints on how to deal with this. And I think we're going to see in the coming days if they can hold that space.

KING: And you heard that from Secretary Blinken this morning, where he talks about the rockets first. You have to listen, when the diplomat speak what do they say first? How do they sequence what they're talking about?

He says, yes, they're concerned about civilian casualties. Yes. They don't want Israel to over respond. But he mentions the Hamas rockets first. Listen here. This is Mark Regev, one of the Prime Minister Netanyahu's closest advisors. There's been a lot of call please just have a ceasefire. Get everybody talking. Just stop what you're doing. And let's have a ceasefire, let humanitarian efforts play out. Mark Regev says, I don't think so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO UNITED KINGDOM: We are concerned that a premature artificial band aid solution would just give Hamas time to regroup, rest, recuperate, and then we have missiles on Tel Aviv next week or next month. That doesn't solve anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's the challenge for the American president is the Israelis, understandably, say hundreds, if not thousands of rockets are raining down indiscriminately population centers. You can also understand though, Palestinians say, well, now you're using airstrikes and artillery and you may well be targeting Hamas locations, but women, children civilians are being killed as you target the Hamas. Who can pull the circuit breaker?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And even as Democrats, increasingly a number of Democrats are trying to say call for that ceasefire and say that there should be a ceasefire, you aren't seeing that from the White House, you aren't seeing that from Blinken, you aren't seeing that from the president.

And so he is facing a lot of pressure. And the Democrats want him to stop putting out what they consider ambiguous or potentially tepid statements. And they would like Biden to be a bit more aggressive in his posture towards Israel, and what they're seeing in terms of hundreds of civilians dying, in Palestine in the settlements.

And so there are a few things though, that also they say that this was maybe predictable because the White House as you mentioned, Catherine. The White House was not prioritizing this relationship at all in these first few months. They were actually trying to move away from it and focus on other priorities and other regions.

And so now they have to pivot back to it. They have to address it when they were trying not to and so you're seeing them be caught a little bit flat footed. And so one area that also they haven't addressed is whether or not they're going to reopen even symbolically the Consulate in Jerusalem, which is one conduit that Palestinians use?

Or whether or not they're even going to rescind a few more of the Trump era declarations that were far more pro Israel?

KING: So one of the things again you watch is the language and Phil Mattingly made the most critical point which is most of this is done in private. Most of this is done in private anyway in this relationship, especially when there are hostilities publicly. I want you to listen here.

[12:10:00]

KING: One of the targets in Gaza over the weekend was the building. We both used to work for "The Associated Press", where our colleagues, our former colleagues in "The Associated Press" Al-Jazeera were the building that house media organizations.

The Israeli government also says it has some Hamas installations or Hamas intelligence operations, listen carefully to the language. Prime Minister Netanyahu explains why it was targeted the U.S. Secretary of State response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We share with our American friends, all that intelligence. And here's the intelligence we had, it's about Palestinian terrorist, an intelligence office for the Palestinian terrorist organization housed in that building that plots and organizes the terror attacks against Israeli civilians. So it's a perfectly legitimate target.

BLINKEN: Shortly after the strike we did request additional details regarding the justification for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said that you requested additional information. Have you received it? Have you seen it? And did you find it credible?

BLINKEN: I have not seen any information provided.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I want to make clear he has not personally seen it. That does not mean the Israeli government has not shared what I've used as credible targeting information. But what I found interesting, there was Netanyahu saying we share as if it's like, here it is, and Blinken saying we requested like they had to ask for it.

That gets you into the there's no question. This president is Phil noted as a five decade record of supporting Israel and his right to defend itself but in the private conversations there and some of the public wording. There's also be careful where you go here, Mr. Prime Minister?

LUCEY: That's right. There's always a public and a private conversation. And this was a troubling event. So many people I mean, this is a building housing, journalists, and the APA is doing important work in the region. We obviously hope they remain safe, and they will continue to do that. But targeting a building for journalists work is serious.

And you've heard from the leaders of the APA as well, that they want to know why this building was targeted and what information was used?

KING: And you mentioned the pressure from Democrats, we can show 28 U.S. Senators calling for an immediate ceasefire. There are Democrats and Republicans calling for an immediate ceasefire, but from progressives who have long way in advance of this and during the Trump Presidency, and even before that, during the Obama Presidency, not fans of Benjamin Netanyahu, the illegal settlements and so on.

This is a Bernie Sanders the devastation in Gaza is unconscionable. We must urge an immediate ceasefire. The killing of Palestinians and Israelis must end. It is illegal for the United States to aid to support USAID to support human rights violations and that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Democratic Congresswoman, apartheid states aren't democracies.

Again, the grievances against Netanyahu predate this. Do they have sway of a President Biden, or is this sorry?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, that's where Menendez's statement is so interesting, and shows the shift among Democrats is that as you said, John, progressives have long taken this position. And so they are being very forceful right now.

But Bob Menendez was a pro - is a pro Israel Democrat, long has been and in his statement, he talked about a full accounting of the bombing of the AP building a full accounting of the civilians that are being killed.

And so he took a far more aggressive stance in asking for answers about what Israel is doing than I think many expected and that showing that Democrats are starting to have a bigger discussion about exactly their posture towards Israel in this bipartisan lockstep that has existed for a long time.

KING: Adds to the pressure on the White House as this carries into the new week the grumbling from senior Democrats like that. Laura and Catherine are going to stay with us. Up next major milestones in the pandemic good ones as we make sense, try to make sense anyway, of the new CDC masks guidelines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

KING: President Biden is delivering a COVID update next hour. And we know one goal is encouraging more Americans to schedule their vaccine appointments. We're also told the president will announce the United States now ready to share more vaccines around the world.

Get your vaccine and lose your mask is part of the White House push. That's the shorthand of it though. There is some confusion about new CDC mask guidance. Let's walk through the numbers. And we'll go through the questions about that guidance.

The case count when you look at this. I mean this is a wow! The numbers are traditionally down over the weekend. But it's been a long time since I've been able to stand here and say 16,000 such a low numbers, still horrible, but 16,864 new infections, the average right now seven days just above 33,000. That is way down.

You can look here, the horrific summer - winter surge, excuse me, way, way down. Will it stay this low? Maybe not but it's now the average at 33. What happens when cases go down? Hospitalizations go down, right? Why is all this happening? This is one of the big reasons 37 percent of the American population is now fully vaccinated.

Nearly half could hit this today, nearly half has at least one shot partially vaccinated here in the United States. And so if you look at the fully vaccinated map right now, you want your state to be dark, the darker the better. You see all the light down here in the southeast, the light out here in the West. Here's another way to look at it now. The top 10 states mostly up here in New England, then you move over to New Mexico, these are the states doing the best job getting their populations fully vaccinated. Here are the bottom 10 states, the states doing the worst job, what do they have in common?

All but one of them, all but one, Louisiana has a Democratic Governor all the rest of the bottom not nine here have Republican Governors. The big challenge of getting vaccinations as more Americans get vaccinated the CDC says if you have - if you're fully vaccinated, you're outdoors. You don't have to wear a mask.

Even says if you're fully vaccinated, and you're indoors in most circumstances, you don't have to wear a mask. But there's been some confusion about this part of what Dr. Walensky the CDC Director says is study the guidance, but then makes your own judgments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We are not saying that everybody has to take off their mask if they're vaccinated, and it's been 16 months that we've been telling people to mask and this is going to be a slow process. The other thing is that every community is not the same not all communities have vaccination rates that are high not all - and some communities still have case rights that are high.

So these decisions have to be made at the community level. In terms of the honor system, people have to be honest with them. You're protected if you're vaccinated. You're not if you're not vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share her expertise on this at this important moment, our Medical Analyst Dr. Celine Gounder. She's an Infectious Disease Specialist and Epidemiologist.

[12:20:00]

KING: She was also a member of the Biden Transition COVID Task Force Dr. Gounder great to see you on this day. I want you to listen to the Former Surgeon General who says the mask guidance is right. But the rollout was a little confusing, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JEROME ADAMS, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: The play call was right. But they fumbled the ball at the one yard line in terms of communicating this to the public in terms of engagement. It was a little bit of whiplash for the American public, in terms of them saying just a week before, keep your mask on. And then all of a sudden, they're saying now you can take them off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Do you agree with that? Are you confused? Or do you clearly get what we're supposed to do here? DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST AND EPIDEMIOLOGIST: John, I do agree with Dr. Adams. I think on the science, the medical science, the epidemiological science, the CDC was quite right. And we have learned just even the last couple of weeks, some critical data.

First of all, that people who have been vaccinated are very low risk of even infection with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, your risk of infection is a cut by 90 percent. And in addition, if you do happen to be one of those people who have a breakthrough infection like Bill Maher, like members of the players of the Yankees, your risk of passing on that infection of transmitting it to others is exceedingly low.

And so those are the two data points that really allowed for the CDC to say, you know, if you're vaccinated in most places, you do not need to wear a mask. What they got wrong was really the communications, the behavioral science, and what should have been an all of government policy, planning, communications effort here, really working with employers as well from Walmart to the airlines as to how to implement that science in their particular context.

KING: Help me with your take on what should happen now on the big question everybody is facing which is I'm grateful now. I'm fully vaccinated. I'm allowed to invite my reporter friends back at the table. It's been more than a year since that possible those fully vaccinated. We're making our calls but there's a question you know, should there be a blanket policy?

Should there be some - a passport or some verification? I want you to listen to Dr. Leana Wen she says the Biden team needs to get over its queasiness over vaccine verification. Businesses, employers and schools are looking for leadership on how they can ensure a safe environment for their customers, workers and students.

I'm not saying the federal government should issue a vaccine passport rather it should help private entity set up a health and safety screen that incorporates proof of vaccination or testing in lieu of vaccine verification. How do we handle this? Is this something like TSA pre check?

Is it like clear at the airport? What should be set up if anything to make this part easier for businesses for schools to know this person vaccinated?

DR. GOUNDER: To be fair, I don't think the Biden Administration is queasy about this. They have made it very clear that they will not the federal government will not be issuing vaccine credentials. However, Andy Slavitt, and others at the White House have been meeting for months with the very organizations businesses that are setting up these credentials that there are standards with respect to privacy protections standards in terms of what data is being provided and how.

And New York State for example, has the excelsior pass, it's an app that does exactly this, you know, provides that credential of if you've had - if you've been vaccinated, or if you've had a recent test that was negative. So there are systems that are coming online now I think where you're

going to see the major action is really in the private sector, private sector developing these systems and then private sector adopting it, especially in places for example, hospitality, airlines, sports venues, where the stakes are really high that they don't want to have an outbreak affecting whether it's their customers or their staff.

KING: Hopefully that happens in a way that adds clarity, not confusion as we know it's a bit of a rocky road, Dr. Gounder grateful as always for your insights. We'll continue this conversation in the days ahead. Up next for us Former President Trump offers a stunning update on the so called Arizona audit. It's a can't-miss for fiction fans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

KING: To Arizona now and sadly today's edition of Donald Trump is still lying in his Republican Party is still enabling those laws. Arizona Republicans are paying a private contractor to run what they call an audit of Joe Biden's November win in Arizona.

The Former President says what they are finding is shocking. The entire database of Maricopa County in Arizona has been deleted Trump alleges. Ballots are missing and worse he goes on to say. There's only one problem with that and it is a recurring one. Trump is lying.

Wow! This is unhinged tweeted the county's recorder a Republican. I'm literally looking at our voter registration database on my other screen right now. We can't indulge these insane lies any longer as a party as a state as a country. The so called audit is on hold for a week because there is high school graduation scheduled at the Coliseum where that so called audit is being conducted.

Let's discuss this now with Ryan Randazzo. He's a Business Reporter with the Arizona Republican azcentral.com Ryan grateful for your time to get out of Washington to have this conversation with a reporter where this is happening?

Number one I think I know the answer. But when the Former President of the United States says, wow, database deleted that's not true, correct?