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Inside Politics

Netanyahu, Gaza Militants Vow To Fight On As Biden Urges De- escalation; Coronavirus Pandemic; House GOP Lawmakers Fined After Defying Mask Mandate. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 19, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:34:31]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: An important tone shift from President Biden today when it comes to the violence in the Middle East and United States close ally Israel. The White House says the President told the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this morning that he expects to see quote a significant de-escalation today on the path to a ceasefire. So far this morning, no sign the violence is calming down and senior Israeli officials say they expect more days, days plural of conflict.

Let's go to Israel and CNN, Nic Robertson. Nic, any signs at all that the Prime Minister is listening to the request from the president?

[12:35:02]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He's certainly listening to the requests that he spoke about the phone conversation saying that he had -- he thanked his friend, he said his friend, President Biden, for his continued support of Israel's right to defend itself. But he also went on to say that Israel would continue until it had a, quote, secure, quiet. He said, the longer Israel continues to target Hamas, it's commanders, its tunnel networks, and its weapons fighting capability, essentially, the safer Israel will be.

So, you know, at a political level, the message is heard. But the reaction sounds like the Prime Minister is not looking as if he is bending to that pressure. Now, the reality will be in the coming 24 hours. But as I'm standing here at sunset, we're seeing the intercepts continue Hamas firing rockets out of Gaza being intercepted. I'm hearing the sound of what sounds like artillery being fired into Gaza.

That's what we believe it is where an Israeli Defense Force artillery battery right now they've been quiet since we've been here. They were quiet yesterday afternoon, but others nearby had been had been firing.

So, you know, I think the thing to look for tonight, John, will the Israeli Air Force launch one of their intense raids on Hamas's tunnel network as they did last night. And these are very intense raids, or will that be scaled down? I think that will be an indicator. I also think the expectation here is that the Prime Minister wouldn't order a quick de-escalation. So let's look towards the end of tomorrow. Maybe more to read better into this.

KING: I'm grateful you're there, Nic, to help us do that. Nic Robertson, near the Gaza Israel border. Nic will keep in touch and joining our conversation.

Now the director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, Natan Sachs. Natan, grateful to have you on this day. I want to read the President's the statement from the White House about the President's call it the prime minister and ask you to help me along with the translation that is inevitably required when you have these diplomatic statements. Here.

The two leaders had a detailed discussion on the state of events in Gaza, Israel's progress integrating the capabilities of Hamas and other terrorist elements and ongoing diplomatic efforts by regional governments in the United States. The President conveyed to the Prime Minister that he expected a significant de-escalation today on the path to a ceasefire, that today part is especially important. So let us begin there. Will an Israeli Prime Minister defy an American President when he says today?

NATAN SACHS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, he would not try to defy him to openly but it's anyhow also finds that he has domestic audiences where he doesn't want to show that he's caving too easily. You'll notice in the readout of the President's call. He didn't say a ceasefire today. He said significant de-escalation towards a ceasefire. So that could happen at any outcome thread the needle there.

I do hear on the Israeli side as well, some very cautious optimism of the ceasefire coming, but the bets are mostly on tomorrow, Thursday. So, Netanyahu could thread the needle. He could have de-escalation and then an actual ceasefire tomorrow. In the meantime, he's talking about achieving this goal. It's rather elusive, no one knows exactly what that goal is. And there and of course lies the problem.

KING: Right, and it is the problem. And I want to go back to the statement just a little bit, where it says they had a detailed discussion, then it goes on today talking about the degrading of capabilities. Our Barbara Starr has some additional reporting from the Pentagon.

The concern of the Biden administration is that you can take out known targets, Hamas targets, but then as things are more mobile and moving around, if you continue to attack those, then you're increasing the risks that you're going to have civilian casualties, that you're going to take out other non-military infrastructure and the like. How do you draw those lines when you're having a conversation with Israeli Prime Minister saying, Look, you've achieved the military objectives as you can it gets dicey from here, I need you to step back.

SACHS: Yes, that is the rationale for stopping. And it's the rationale that is also heard and sometimes shared, of course, it in Israeli decision making. There is one counterpoint which could be correct in some cases, which is that during the fighting more intelligence does come out.

What the Israelis mostly tried to do on the tactical level is to try to take out a massive network, really dozens of kilometers of tunnels underneath the Gaza, Gaza City, but also other parts of the Gaza Strip in which Hamas has been operating and also preparing the rockets for fire. That was the target, the main military target of the Israelis in this operation, and it hit a lot of it partially successfully.

The question, of course, is what exactly remains and what is -- what are the Israelis showing to the Americans in terms of intelligence and otherwise, but what they yet have to do from the outside without the benefit of seeing the intelligence, it does seem that any high value targets are force exhausted in the first 24 hours or 48 hours. And most of what remains is dangerous.

For example, the Israelis have tried to hit the commander of the military wing, Muhammad Deif, the military wing of Hamas, he is someone who's evaded Israeli attempts to kill him many times before. He's already paralyzed by from Israeli strikes.

And that would be of course, the image of victory, that it's an era with love to show his own people. If Israel did succeed in hitting him however, you could also expect perhaps that Hamas was less interested in a ceasefire because then it's would be on the losing side. And we'd see this terrible, vicious kind of tit for tat go back.

[12:40:14]

This is the kind of danger with every single moment and every single day that continues without a ceasefire, each side trying to get their victory image and the other side of course, then feeling that it has to strike back.

KING: All right, Natan Sachs, grateful for your insights on this important day. We'll see what happens in the next 24 hours or so and continue with the conversation. Thank you, sir.

Up next for us the latest Coronavirus numbers including a clear connect the dots in states where vaccinations are up, new code infections are down.

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[12:45:06]

KING: A new CNN analysis shows yes, you can connect the dots, a clear correlation between higher vaccination rates and lower COVID case numbers. Let's walk through the latest important numbers as we fight the COVID pandemic.

This you've seen before, it's the new cases and you see well down. This is the horrific winter peak down here. 27,851 new infections reported yesterday, the seven day national average now 31,000 a little above that they are being pushed down steadily. Public health experts would like to push it down more but you see the steady drop there.

Now the administration says public health experts agree in part that is because of this. 60 percent of Americans are now adults and now partially vaccinated and nearly half of American adults just shy 48 percent here are fully vaccinated. More vaccinations in most places means lower case counts.

The President says he wants all -- he wants all 70 percent of adults have at least one shot by July 4. That's the President's goal. 70 percent of all adults by July 4, the seven states are already there. You see them all in the northeast New England states plus New Jersey there, they've already met that goal as they continue to vaccinate people.

These states are at the bottom of the list when it comes to vaccination. These 10 trailed the national average are simply not doing as good a job in getting their citizens to be vaccinated.

Now why does that matter? Follow along. This is Mississippi among those at the bottom of the pace when it comes to rolling out the vaccines. Look what they were on April 1st. The average was 211 cases, a sluggish vaccine rollout, fast forward to where we are today, 241. You can say essentially a flat line seven up a little bit. They're seven day average of new cases. They are lagging in the vaccine rollout.

Vermont, that is a national leader, one of the leaders. Back in April, they were averaging 187 new COVID infections a day. Fast forward to where we are now, they're below 50. 48 is the average. Do a better job with your vaccine rollout, your cases go down. You can connect the dots.

On that point, let's bring into our conversation Dr. Megan Ranney. She's the Associate Dean of Public Health at Brown University, also an emergency room physician in Rhode Island.

Dr. Ranney, it is good to see you. Help me with this. A lot of what we talked about in these COVID conversations for the past 14 months are complicated. Am I right that this is pretty simple? Get a vaccine down go the case count.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY: That's exactly right, John. This is about as easy as it gets vaccines work when you get a vaccine in your arm, when you get two weeks past that second shot if you've got Moderna or Pfizer or two weeks past the only shot if you've got J&J, you are tremendously well protected.

And then the vaccine protects not just you, but the community around you. So every vaccine that goes in arms has a knock on effect. And what we are seeing is the opposite of that exponential curve that we saw in the worst months of the pandemic, where cases were going up at an almost straight line, we're now seeing the opposite is vaccines getting arms, we're seeing that exponential drop in the states with high vaccine rates.

KING: And one of the benefits we have seen as the CDC saying you can now relax, liberalize mass guidelines, because more and more Americans are becoming vaccinated. But there's been some confusion about the policy. I want you to listen to Dr. Walensky, the head of the CDC, talking this morning about yes, we have these federal guidelines, but you need to take into account where you live.

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ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: There are some areas that some counties that still have less than 20 percent of people vaccinated. There are some counties that still have greater than 100 per 100,000 cases in a seven-day period of time. And so I actually think as I've looked at the map of very heterogeneous map of how we're doing with cases, how we're doing with vaccinations, the decisions about whether to take off a mass mandate have to be made at the local level has to be made at the community level.

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KING: As you know, there's been a little debate about whether the CDC guidance is too confusing. Do you find that helpful or confusing?

RANNEY: So let's start with the biology. The biology of what the CDC said is absolutely correct. If you're vaccinated, the chance of you catching COVID, the chance of you're passing it on to someone else is really low. But there's also the behavioral science side and as Dr. Walensky said this morning, if we remove the mask mandates too quickly, we risk stalling or reversing that drop in cases that we're seeing across the country.

I would have loved to have seen in addition to the biological science, some metrics for communities around when it was safe to lift the mask mandates, and I think it is critically important to consider community levels of COVID-19 cases as well as community levels of vaccination when deciding whether or not to take your mask off in indoor public settings.

But the last thing there John is just a reminder, if you are fully vaccinated, and you're getting together with other fully vaccinated people, no matter where you live in this country, that is when it is absolutely indisputably OK to take your mask off. Enjoy, have a dinner party and let loose a little.

KING: A reason for anyone watching. If you haven't made your appointment yet, make it get the shot, then get number two, then you can have that dinner party. Dr. Ranney, it's great to see you. Appreciate the insights.

Coming up for us, CNN asked every single member of Congress. Are you vaccinated? The numbers ahead, and we'll also tell you about Republicans being fined for refusing to wear their masks a protest on the House floor.

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[12:54:50] KING: The House Republican leader today says he will try to change the rule requiring lawmakers and staff to wear masks in the House chamber and an indoor meetings in the Capitol Complex. This new effort comes a day after rule breaking protests on the House floor.

[12:55:02]

Several republicans were fined and warned Tuesday after ignoring a masked mandate on the House floor. You can see the lawmakers right there. Those on the left fined. Those on the right were warned.

Speaker Pelosi says she cannot ease the mask mandate until most members are vaccinated and Democrats are not the issue on that question. Look, the numbers 219 out of 219 House Democrats say yes, we have been vaccinated. Only 97 House Republicans tell CNN, they have received a vaccine, 109 have not answered our question. And we ask yes or no.

CNN's Phil Mattingly, Dana Bash are still with us. Now of those who want to answer the question. Some may have been vaccinated. They just don't want to answer a question from CNN because that's somehow get you kicked out of the Republican Party or something. But it's it, forgive me, you keep saying we don't like the mask rule. Well, then get a vaccine and then March the speakers and say we're all vaccinated. Yay.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the fundamental. But then there's the antics that we saw on the House floor. And that's really what it is. I mean, let's just be clear, what Marjorie Taylor Greene is doing and continues to do with every stunt is raise money, and position herself in a pretty strategic way as the darling of low dollar donors, and the darling of that particular wing of the party, period.

And the more she does things like that, the more successful she is, which is why you're seeing some of the members who never got attention for things like this, flocked to her because they know that she does. That's what this is about.

KING: Let's show a tweet from Marjorie Taylor Greene yesterday, just to this point with three of her Republican colleagues on the floor of the House of Representatives, saying that the mask is oppressive for your face.

Here's my point, Phil, and we have three parents at the table. I completely respect their right to say we don't like the mask rule. That's their right as Americans to question any rule to question any law, they can get the votes, and they can vote it down if they choose to.

But they write the rules. They swear an oath. They write the laws. We tell our kids obey the speed limits. We tell our kids obey the rules. If you don't like the rules, you can object to them. But you can't openly defy them and ignore them when you're in a position of power and accountability, because of the example it sets or am I just too old school? PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. I mean, look, it's fair to make the point that no one is more impressed than somebody who is a member of the United States Congress. Stop. Like, it's just absurd. And look, the interesting part is I've talked to House Democrats that are ready for the mask world to end, right? Like they don't necessarily -- they're not necessarily off base by calling --

BASH: Isn't ready for an end.

KING: Right. Right.

MATTINGLY: The Senate no longer has the mask rule. And you make the good point about vaccinations. But you could perhaps make an argument that I think a lot of members would get behind the perhaps it's time to end the mask rule in the House. If you didn't turn it into antics or act like this is some huge deal, look, you're not the freedom riders here.

I just and I think it kind of underscores the point, we're going back to what we talked about at the very beginning. You know, we don't want to relitigate 2020 and have a January 6 Commission, as all of our fringe members are talking about how we need to relitigate 2020 because it wasn't a real election. We want to focus on issues.

But here we're going to sit here and take selfies of ourselves on the House floor, talking about mask, it's the reality of the Republican Party being led by individuals who are not focused on the fact that President just put a $4 trillion spending plan on the table, are not focused on the fact of what's going on in the Middle East right now or not concerned about inflation necessarily.

Some are, but they're not the ones that get the headlines. They aren't the ones who get the focus. They are the ones who to be frank are the leaders of the party right now. I think that's the thing. You can talk to plenty of Republicans. I know you have, I know you have as well, that that's kind of their biggest frustration. And I think the response to that is OK, do something about it.

KING: And I just went through the numbers, there is a -- just a clear correlation. It is indisputable. In states that are doing better with the vaccine rollout, meaning states that have a higher percentage of the population vaccinated, the case counts are down, the new infections are down, which means fewer hospitalizations, which means more of you can go back to work, which means things get better.

Look at this polling. This is from back in April. Will you try or have you received a COVID vaccine? 90 percent of Democrats say yes, seven and 10 68 percent of independents say yes, only half of Republicans say yes. And if you go -- look at the states where the vaccine role is lagging, it tends to be in Trump, Republican red states, they could set a huge example. Fight your other fights, set an example. Protect lives, make your community back home where you run for election safer. Why is this hard.

BASH: Instead of fighting a fight about masks and about oppression, fight the fight for the people who you represent, to get the vaccine, use your megaphone for that reason. And then if everybody's vaccinated, guess what? Take -- You can take your masks off. It's a direct result of following the science which so many of them don't want to do because the former president and those who follow him, you know, over a year ago politicized mass wearing.

MATTINGLY: The level of irresponsibility when it comes to vaccine. Look, it's everybody's personal choice. I understand that if you have objections to it, whatever they are, that's fine. And I'm not saying that large portions of the Republican Party are going to look at Marjorie Taylor Greene and say she got the vaccine. Now I'm going to get the vaccine as well. But the value of modeling the behavior that has a very clear effect on the worst pandemic in a century seems to make good sense to you.

KING: If 10 people did listen and she got one it would help, 10 would help, every number helps. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now. We'll see you tomorrow.