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Wray: Can't Compare Jan. 6 Or Ransomware To "Horror" Of 9/11; FDA Advisers Discussing Rules For Vaccinating Children Under 12; Jewish House Dems Condemn Omar For Comparing U.S. & Israel To Hamas & Taliban. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 10, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Director Wray was also questioned about his interview with "The Wall Street Journal" last week where he seemed to compare the recent string of cyberattacks in this country to September 11th. Here's how he responded to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Let me just say that I don't think any attack ransomware or January 6th can fairly be compared to the horror of September 11th and the 3,000 or so individuals who lost their lives that day. My reference to September 11th in kind of ransomware, it was not about the attack, but how the country came together in response.

Now, certainly, when it comes to January 6th, it's a unique type of attack, not just in terms of the number of individuals but in terms of the effort to disrupt a key part of our constitutional system and the peaceful transition of government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: And Director Wray has been facing a barrage of questions now for the past two plus hours. But John, he's really been emphasizing the FBIs were tracking down these hundreds of Capitol rioters who attack that day, stressing forced that there have been about 500 arrests so far, and they expect that number to go up. John?

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Jessica Schneider, grateful for the hustle and the quick reporting on the Director's testimony. Thank you.

Let's bring the conversation in the room and CNN's Lauren Fox joins our conversation. Let's listen to the exchange between Sheila Jackson Lee and the FBI Director on the question of is anyone investigating Trump's role?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Have any of these words been reviewed to determine whether or not President Trump words and deeds should be referred to the Department of Justice as contributing to the violence of the insurrectionists on January 6th?

WRAY: I'm not aware of any investigation that specifically goes to that. But we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of investigations related to January 6th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is the Democratic argument, Lauren Fox, for the independent commission, a bipartisan commission to look into this because they want to get to what Trump said, what Trump did before, during, and after that day. Will that help the cause? Or is this just we're going to still make clear we're mad?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the votes are what the votes are in the Senate on the Commission, John. But I do think that this is a broader conversation on Capitol Hill about what happens now that that Commission vote had failed in the Senate, especially after you have that Senate report laying out the events of January 6th, and not really mentioning what led to the events on January 6th. They get into the security failures, of course, they get into communication failures, they didn't get into what Trump said ahead of the attack on January 6th.

They also don't really get ahead of the election lies that were spread that led to the events at the Capitol on January 6th, why people felt like they needed to go and stop the certification of the election. And I think this really will just bolster Democrats arguments that they need to get to that central question. How they do that? I think is still an open question.

KING: And one of the consistent things in the previous administration and now is when Director Wray testifies, both sides are always unhappy, because he just -- he's just very, he's circumspect. He doesn't say -- he doesn't give them red meat. He's very cautious in what he says. And you have both Democrats and Republicans at the end, frustrated.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And he's not going to give them specific details about what exactly the investigations are. And you heard him. He said, I can't tell you whether there is or isn't an investigation, specifically looking into not just Trump but other aspects of the January 6th insurrection. So they're not going to get exactly what they're looking for from him. But to your point, Lauren, I think it does give Democrats the argument that they're looking for that this just furthers the need for the Commission.

[12:33:32]

KING: When we come back, some important news about the vaccine and when your kids might be able to get it especially younger kids.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Just in to us, the FDA now deciding to extend the shelf life for Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine. The FDA now says the shot can sit on the shelf for four and a half months. That's up from three months. The decision comes as millions of vaccine doses were about to expire.

The FDA also today in a marathon meeting, discussing what it would take to start vaccinating children under the age of 12 against COVID, this as Moderna asked the regulatory agency for a permission to use its vaccine in 12 to 17 year olds, that after Pfizer was given the same green light to vaccinating kids as young as 12 exactly one month ago.

With us to share her expertise and her insights, the former CDC Detective Dr. Seema Yasmin, Doctor, let's start with that question, I have it up on the screen here. No approval or authorization expected for younger children before the new school year starts at the end of summer. The FDA is now trying to figure out how many children do we need in these trials? What other data do we need to make this decision? It is a huge one walk through how it will play out.

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, FORMER CDC DISEASE DETECTIVE: That's exactly right, John. So today's marathon FDA meeting isn't about any specific vaccine. It's not about casting approval, for example, for the expanded Moderna vaccine for younger kids. What they are talking about today is the nitty-gritty, the logistics and practicalities of doing clinical trials in children as young as five or even as young as six months of age.

So typically, pediatric vaccine trials will have anywhere between 500 to about 3,500 children. And so they're going to be talking about exactly this, how many six month olds or how many five year olds would you need to enroll in a clinical trial to approve a COVID vaccine? How efficacious would the vaccine have to be? What kind of data should the companies like Moderna or Pfizer be submitting? So that's what they're discussing today separately from the expanded emergency use authorization of the Moderna vaccine for 12 to 17 year olds.

KING: As a parent of an almost 10-year-old, I can tell you, I'm very anxious to hear the results of these meetings. I think a lot of have parents around the country are as we get through into the summer, summer camp, school year in the like. I want to walk through some of the other metrics as we talk about it right now, especially this vaccination map. If you look at this right now, this is 13 states have already met the President's goal by July 4th of having 70 percent of their population, at least partially vaccinated by July 4th.

[12:40:16]

You see Maine at 76 percent, for Vermont at 83 percent. But Dr. Yasmin, you see down here, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana 47, 45, 46, well behind other parts of the country. So the administration has tried everything they've -- some states are using lotteries. The administration says we'll come to your office. I want you to listen to the Surgeon General. He understand -- he says this is critically important. It used to be, here our incentives. Now, Dr. Murthy says if you don't have a vaccine, you should be scared. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: The news about the Delta variant is evidence of really why it's so important for us to get vaccinated as soon as possible. This variant is even more transmissible than the U.K. variant which was more transmissible than the version of the virus we were dealing with last year. And there's also some concern that it may be more dangerous as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: How effective do you think that is, again, and rate if you can, some states have lotteries, other incentives, vans in neighborhoods, bringing it to your workplace. And they're essentially, listen, think about this, your safety is at risk, your life could be at risk.

YASMIN: Fear is not an effective motivator. Unfortunately, fear does not lead people to make rational decisions that are good for public health. And we've learned this throughout the history of public health campaigns dating back decades, John. We learned from the mistakes made with HIV/AIDS in the early days of bat pandemic. When you scare people, actually it stigmatizes disease. And it can make people do really weird and irrational things that don't lead them to those good decisions that protect public health.

And to be honest, sure, there are new variants. But if people weren't scared already, during the previous surges in the U.S. and other parts of the world earlier this year or last year, then I don't think this tactic will work to motivate them. But there is evidence that incentives can work and behavioral scientists say to us that for some people, the group that they refer to as the movable middle incentives can work, that fear is rarely an effective motivator when it comes to good public health decision making.

KING: I'm sure they would say they're just trying to put the facts out there about the variant. But when you listen to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Murthy --

YASMIN: Sure.

KING: -- and others in recent days, it does sound like they're trying to alarm us. Well, let me ask you this question in closing. Here's where we are right now. The administration, the country on average, 365,000 Americans getting their first shot every day. To reach the President's goal by July 4th of 70 percent having at least one shot by July 4th, they'd have to get up to 607,000. You say fair doesn't work? Is there anything you think they can get into this goal falling just short of it, not a big deal if you can make progress? But what works best?

YASMIN: Oh, absolutely. Well, including kids in the equation is a really big deal, John. Children make up 20 percent of the American population. So having the expanded use of COVID vaccines for them, perhaps Moderna being approved for 12 to 17 year olds next month, those can make a really big dent in achieving herd immunity across the U.S. because we're including children.

And then what I think is proven to work is targeted public health messaging, the different communities listening to people on the ground, saying, why are you scared to take the vaccine, why are you not confident about the vaccine, and then making sure that we have very specific targeted messaging for those particular communities. That's what works.

KING: Dr. Yasmin, grateful for your time. Thank you.

YASMIN: Thank you.

KING: Up next for us, Congressman Ilhan Omar under fire again, Jewish Democrats demanding an apology after she equates the United States and Israel to Hamas and the Taliban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:43:36]

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): -- because the American people want to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Ilhan Omar is in another big fight today with Democratic House colleagues. A group of Jewish Democrats issuing a stinging rebuke in response to comments by Omar about human rights abuses. Quote, equating the United States and Israel to Hamas and the Taliban is as offensive as it is misguided. False equivalencies give cover to terrorist groups. We urge Congresswoman Omar to clarify her words.

The Minnesota Congresswoman though quick to respond tweeting, that it is shameful in her view for her Democratic colleagues to put out the letter and not just call her. Our panel is back with us. Lauren Fox, this is a constant tension between the Congresswoman and her friends in the so called squad and more Democratic establishment figures, especially the Jewish Democrats. How did this one happen?

FOX: Well, we've seen this show before. But essentially what we are learning about this incident is that Ilhan Omar had this tweet essentially, and instead of sort of having a private conversation, which is what sometimes happens behind closed doors, so the Democratic members don't sort of air their laundry in public, they came out with this statement.

And you know, one of the pieces of reporting that, you know, we have seen is that Ilhan Omar tried to sort of preempt this statement from her Democratic colleagues, and she was unable to do so, they didn't want to have that conversation privately. And I think that that's because this is not the first time it's happened. And I think Democratic members who are Jewish, other Democratic members who align themselves with us more of a traditional Democratic view of Israel, they're tired of this. And they're not necessarily going to give her the kind of grace or time to correct it. It's been multiple years now of these kinds of interactions.

KING: There are some of them who are not shy or hesitant about the fight. So let's get into the substance of what it's about. This is very directly said in a tweet by Congressman Omar. This is what the Jewish Democrats object to language like this. We have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by the United States, Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban. I asked Secretary Blinken, where people are supposed to go for justice.

[12:50:18]

So in that tweet, we have seen unthinkable atrocities. She links them all together as equals, the U.S., Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban. In a Twitter video, she goes on to explain her message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: I haven't seen any evidence in either cases that domestic courts can both can and we'll prosecute alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. And I would emphasize that in Israel and Palestine, this includes crimes committed by both the Israeli security forces and Hamas. In Afghanistan, it includes crimes committed by the Afghan national government and the Taliban.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: She is consistent at calling out what she sees as human rights abuses anywhere in the world. She is consistent on that. The language that gets her into trouble and gets her colleagues mad is when she puts them all and lumps them together as if they are equals, the United States, Hamas, Israel, Afghanistan, and the Taliban.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes. And she has made similar comments in the past, which is why the Jewish Democrats and other Democratic figures have been so quick to say, can you please clarify this? Can you be more specific or separate and explain what exactly you're talking about? But Congresswoman Omar feels that that's not necessary and that she can move forward with the same comments doing exactly what she's done.

Also, when we've talked about norms, typically, Democrats or the party in power tries to avoid squabbles like this in public, especially when the President is overseas right now on a foreign trip. And that's not happening. This is totally out airing the grievances out for everyone can -- for everyone to see while Biden is overseas.

KING: And quickly coming to Congressman Omar's defense or the other members of the so called squad receded to leave tweeting, their obsession with policing her is sick. She has the courage to call out human rights abuses, no matter who is responsible. That's better than colleagues who look away if it serves their politics. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I'm pretty sick and tired of the constant vilification, intentional mischaracterization, and public targeting of Ilhan Minnesota, coming from our caucus. And Representative Cori Bush, a new member, stop attacking Ilhan Minnesota, stop attacking us. This is a real fight. It's about substance. It's also about younger progressives in the conference who say, look, we're going to do things differently.

VIVIAN SALAMA, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, that's right, the younger, the squad that you're referring to obviously, believe that there has been too much political correctness in their view with regard to some of these issues. And so they believe that speaking out is one of the best options for them. And they see it as something bold and new and refreshing.

Israel certainly probably knows that Ilhan Omar is not speaking on behalf of the Biden administration. So there's really no confusion there. But really, what is the essence here is whether or not the public, you know, a lot of people out there voters know that she doesn't necessarily, she isn't necessarily in line with some of the more moderate Democrats and that they do not agree with those views.

And so very worried, obviously, going into the 2022 midterm elections and thinking, you know, everyone wants to kind of separate themselves from that message so that it doesn't seep into their own messages.

KING: And you mentioned this, and I just put some headlines on the screen. I'm not going to read them, but just to show people you have, you know, throughout 2019, several issues in which this controversy has come up and allegations that she's anti-Semitic. But so the substance aside to your point about that they can't figure out how to deal with this within the Democratic family. Is it because each side enjoys the fight, thinks there's something to be gained from the fight? Or is it because relationships are just dysfunctional and they haven't figured out how to sort this out?

FOX: Well, I think it's both of those. I think some of it is they like the fight at least parts of the squad like the fight. I think the other part of it is they haven't really figured out how to settle their differences here. And I think that that's why this is going to keep happening.

KING: I think the critics would argue, you can't settle differences if you're equating the United States to Hamas. Congressman Omar would say I call out. I call it like I see it. And I have a right to do that. Well watch as it plays out. It is fascinating.

[12:54:13]

Up next for us, a very out of the box suggestion on Capitol Hill, yes, out of the box, out of the universe suggestion on Capitol Hill to tackle climate change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Topping our Political Radar today, the developer of the Keystone XL pipeline officially pulling the plug after more than a decade of controversy. It's a big win for activists who feared contamination and the destruction of sacred Native American sites. Supporters though said that pipeline would have created thousands of jobs.

One GOP Congressman's solution to the climate crisis, literally move heaven and earth. Listen to Texas Republican Louie Gohmert question if there's a connection between the Moon's orbit and climate change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): And so is there anything that the National Forest Service or BLM can do to change the course of the Moon's orbit or the Earth's orbit around the Sun? Obviously, they would have profound effects on our climate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Her response, a polite one. I'll get back to your Congressman if I have any more information.

New York City mayoral candidate Eric Adams gave the media a tour of his basement apartment in Brooklyn that after his competitors seized on reports questioning where the Brooklyn borough president actually lives. "POLITICO" was first report Adams has been sleeping at his New Year City Office. He does own a coop in New Jersey with his partner. Adams insisted to CNN's Don Lemon. He is a New Yorker and he pledged to release his E-ZPass records. Rival Andrew Yang tweeting last night. I don't think he lives there, that following Adams's apartment tour.

[13:00:15]

Thanks for joining us today. Have a great day. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.