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Fmr. FDA Chief: Delta Variant May "Spike New Epidemic" In Fall; Biden Meets With Turkish President At NATO Summit; Biden's Agenda Hits Roadblocks In Congress. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 14, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN OF EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AT GRADY HEALTH SYSTEM: And the moment that happens, then I see absolutely no problem and you can certainly mandate the vaccine.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: We'll watch that out throughout the weeks ahead as we expect that process to play out. I want to walk through to you where we are at this moment, because if you look at it just by the rate of new infections, we're significantly down. You see down here, this is where we are right now, 14,197 is the seven-day average. And you see, it's about a flat line, though, for the last week or 10 days. And this has some public health officials, Dr. Del Rio a little bit worried.

But if you go back and look, you know, we were at 34,000 cases back in September, then came the big winter climb, if you want to go all the way back, June -- in 2020, we're at 20,000 cases. And we went up to the summer peak there of 67,000. So some public health experts look at this and they say, yes, that number is a lot better. But this new Delta variant is starting to spread. Listen to Dr. Gottlieb, who says he's worried that because this is not lower, as we get to the fall, weather gets a little cooler, we could have another spike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: This is more contagious. It appears that people who get this virus have higher viral loads, and they have those viral loads for longer periods of time so they shed more virus. Right now in the United States, it's about 10 percent of infections, it's doubling every two weeks. So it's probably going to become the dominant strain here in the United States. This could spike a new epidemic heading into the fall. The outbreaks that are happening in the U.K. are happening around schools, where you have a lot of unvaccinated children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Do you share that view? And if so, what's the solution?

DEL RIO: John, I totally share that view. And I'm very concerned as well that you know, 14,000 cases was -- it's good, it's not good enough, we need to be lower. And the reality is almost every single one of those persons who are currently being diagnosed or currently being hospitalized, who are dying from COVID today, about 300 to 400 people are dying today from COVID are unvaccinated individuals.

So we're dividing the country now and those that have been vaccinated and those that have not been vaccinated. And while the President has put us a goal to get one shot, at least into 70 percent of Americans, when we're dealing with the Delta variant, you need to have received two shots if you're you talking about the mRNA vaccine, or one shot of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, one shot is not enough. So we got to get 70 percent of Americans fully vaccinated. And that's not going to happen by July 4th. So I'm very concerned about that.

KING: And as you voiced your concern, I just want to close our conversation by the -- I've done this now for too long, and some of these graphics stun you more than others. This is where we are, we're going to hit 600,000 deaths today, 600,000 of our friends and neighbors and coworkers here in the United States of America, Dr. Del Rio, we've talked since the very beginning of this pandemic, you talked about the potential threat of the Delta variant, down through the fall. When you just think about a number like that 600,000, what goes through your mind?

DEL RIO: It's just mind boggling. I don't think if we were talking a year ago, John, we would have -- I wouldn't -- you wouldn't think we were crazy talking about that number of people dead. And you know, globally what is even more concerning is that, you know, this month, John, we hit more people have died in 2021 from COVID than the entire 2020. So globally, the mortality is still incredibly high, it's not only 600,000 Americans, but it's over 3.5 million people globally that have died from this pandemic.

KING: Dr. Del Rio, grateful for your insights and very important that you bring the global community into the conversation as well. I appreciate that, Sir. We'll talk to you again.

DEL RIO: Talk to you soon.

KING: Thank you, Sir.

[12:33:26]

Up next for us, a former NATO military commander shares his thoughts on a new alliance mission that talks tough on Russia and China that winds down in Afghanistan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Standing by any moment now to see President Biden's meeting with the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan as the NATO summit nears its close. Both men have a history. But this is the first time they're sitting down with Biden as the U.S. commander in chief. And there are a fresh set of tensions including within Turkey to talk through.

Joining us to share his insights and expertise, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, retired Army General Wesley Clark. He's now a CNN military analyst and senior fellow at UCLA Sparkle Center. General Clark, it's good to see you. Sitting down, any American president sitting down with the president of Turkey is always an interesting, complicated conversation. At this moment, President Biden on the one hand says he's very concerned with autocrats like Erdogan. On the other hand, Erdogan has some leverage because he could help in Afghanistan. What's the biggest piece of business at this meeting?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET)., CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think the biggest piece is, John, is to actually deal with the situation in Syria, Libya, and of course, for Erdogan, it's to get economic aid in. So he's going to do, he's coming in with a really weak hand. He's already trying to reorient himself from where he was a year ago. He's also selling his very famous combat drones that change the outcome of the war in Afghanistan -- in Azerbaijan, and Armenia, shelling them to Poland, and even to Ukraine. Russia doesn't like this.

And he's siding up to Ukraine, which helps the United States. He wants to help us in Libya. Well, Libya is a problem for us. There's still a problem in Syria. And of course, if he can stay in Afghanistan and do some good work there, around Kabul, that would be helpful. But he has a much weaker hand than he would have had a couple of years ago because he's economies tank.

KING: Let's step back and look at the broader NATO mission, NATO challenges at the moment you were Supreme Allied Commander in the decade after the Berlin Wall came down. The biggest question was where goes Russia? Where are the nukes? How do we encourage, you know, whether it was the Czech Republic whether it was Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, how do you bring them into the family? What is the NATO Mission now? And if you look at him now, it's battling disinformation as part of it, including out of Russia but also other players, the climate issue, cyber challenges, public health, what do you see this was founded as a military alliance? What is its North Star at the moment?

[12:40:16]

CLARK: Well, it's your broader definition of security, John. We know we have to go beyond purely the Cold War mission of deterring a strike by enemy forces across the inner German border. So that can't happen today because Germany is united. We still have a military threat to Eastern Europe. There's active Russian buildup of forces in the Baltics. There is fighting in Ukraine and Putin put a big military exercise in there. Were he to go in Ukraine, it would be a real shock to NATO, and cause a real problem for NATO and for the United States on how to respond to a land grab by Russia in Ukraine.

But Putin considers himself basically at war with democracies and especially with the United States in the West. He's using disinformation, cyber, his financial weapon, he's got a lot of Russian money deployed, and all that Russian money comes back to him through the oligarchs and the Russian mafia. And he basically can use it to influence politics, which he's doing.

So the NATO mission is being broadened out to deal with resilience issues, a broader definition of security, and, of course, there's China, which is at this meeting, going to be recognized as a major systemic challenge for NATO.

KING: You wrote a thoughtful piece, General Clark, about the challenge President Biden faces in this coming Summit in the days ahead with Vladimir Putin. And your take was, try to call him out. These are my words, not yours, but put up or shut up, that the President in your view should come into the meeting with a plan. Let's work together on this. And here's how we're going to transparently prove we're doing it. Let's work together on this. And here's how we're going to transparently prove we're doing it. And then you say he should ask Putin to jointly announce their intent, and have their staff begin to work on this roadmap today. If Putin refuses, then Putin's intent is clear. And the United States and the West should immediately go after his personal illicit funds worldwide.

Your -- this is a huge -- you say that President Biden should be ready to pull sort of the ultimate threat if you will, cooperate or we will expose things we know about you that we keep secret for now.

CLARK: Right. And what he's done is he's gone to the G7, he's talking to our allies. Today, he's going to be at the E.U. He's got to pull together the kind of critical supporting needs, that if he goes in bold like this, and tries to do something that's really revisionary, even, you know, almost revolutionary in a way that previous presidents have handled Putin, that he's got full support or mostly full support from the Europeans.

You know, the problem we have, especially with Germany is Germany's foreign policy is built around its economy, and its economy is an export driven economy. So it's a natural thing for Germany to want to sell industrial goods, Mercedes-Benz and BMWs to Russia, and then take Russian gas in return, looks like a perfect partnership, except, of course, that in doing so, Justice Stalin did to Hitler in the 1930s, well, Putin will gain control over Germany, so stance in many areas. And so that's the tension in this approach.

But if President Putin -- if President Biden goes in, and simply goes into assess Putin's intent, and it's a sort of hostile, joshing back and forth, and you know, you need to work on your, the way you treat distance and Putin says that you need to work on the way you treat this, you shouldn't look in the mirror at yourself. We're not going to get anywhere on this. And so I hope the President will be able to go bolder than that, simply lay the cards on the table.

Look, Vladimir, if you keep going the way you're going, you're going to be really in trouble because we're going to cut you off financially. No assistance financially in Russia, no financial transactions, no Western technology, which he uses for his own build up. We're going after you. And then somebody doesn't have to be this way. We could work together more closely than we've ever worked together. It's up to you. If you can reorient Russia, I'm sure our allies an ally can work to reorient our relationship with Russia. And that's the gold bold approach.

KING: Let's see how --

CLARK: It got risk but it could work. KING: Let's see how this one plays out in the days ahead. General Clark, grateful for your insights, Sir, thank you.

CLARK: Thank you.

[12:44:49]

KING: Up next for us, Congress is back with giant decisions looming from infrastructure, to voting rights, and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Congress is back this week and there are several big decisions looming for key pieces of the Biden and Democratic Party agenda. Hopes for massive infrastructure investment, for example, being held up now amid some ongoing talks to see whether a bipartisan approach might work, police reform remain stalled, sweeping voting rights, campaign legislation favored by progressives is in peril in the Senate because several moderate Democrats there don't like it.

The panel is back with me. So let's start infrastructure by choice on Capitol Hill and at the White House, the sort of first now. So you have this group of 10, Manu, Kyrsten Sinema being the key Democrat in this group. Can they get an infrastructure plan to get a bipartisan moment, so there's a big bipartisan signing ceremony at the White House and then Democrats would still have a whole different track for more stuff, but that's holding everything up right now --

[12:50:23]

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

KING: -- we know this by what today or tomorrow, we're all done, right?

RAJU: Well, yes. I mean, this is going to be a very complicated dance for Democratic leaders to perform over the next two months, because what they're going to have to do if they do get behind this approach is still an open question. Pelosi told Dana yesterday she was open to it. Chuck Schumer has not ruled it out. The White House has said it's open to it. They have no one has actually formally gotten behind it neither at the Republican leaders either.

But they do decide to get behind this plan, which there's still a lot of details. We don't know yet. We have the general top lines, but a lot of details we don't know. But I think we have to convince the left flank, OK, get behind this because the next vehicle which doesn't do along party lines for the budget process that is not -- cannot be filibustered in the Senate and could pass which is 51 votes, you can support that because your priorities won't get in this, but it'll get on that one. How does that sales job to go? Can they convince her caucus to get in line behind both? Well, how many Republicans in the Senate will join hands and vote for this as well? Those are all major questions that have to grapple with. And so it's uncertain whether this actually gets done. KING: And the second key path there you mentioned is Bernie Sanders. He's the Senate Budget Committee Chairman. This is from "POLITICO" today. He's focused on building momentum for a reconciliation bill that will be the most consequential legislation for working people enacted since the 1930s. So that's the way to try to tell those Liberal Democrats, if you have to vote for this smaller infrastructure plan, it's OK. Plan B is coming. But isn't it also might push away some Republicans who might want to vote for that bipartisan package, but then they go wait a minute. I'm being snookered here, because there comes the big liberal thing behind me.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. They feel like they may be snookered. But also they may not have much choice, because they don't have a lot of leverage to put up here beyond Biden's desire for bipartisanship. I mean, we ask over and over, so Mitt Romney, where are your 10 votes that could get -- that could get -- that can help the Senate get to 60 on this deal. And he hasn't brought on that. He hasn't indicated that there are at least 10 republicans coming along just yet.

So they can say, well, we don't like this two-step strategy, but they may not have any choice. And just a quick point, Manu, talked a lot about strategy and that's certainly an issue. But there are some policy concerns too, that the White House is already rising in that package. One is indexing the federal gas tax rate to inflation that has not been raised since 1993 only raises about $2 billion overall. But the White House has already said, no, we're not going to do this.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

KIM: So even in the tiniest of things, there are disagreements.

KING: Right. And you had the Speaker of the House on State of the Union yesterday. Joe Manchin is holding up this sweeping, it's not just voting rights, it's campaign finance reform, it's a giant bill. It's really complicated. Several Democrats in the Senate don't like it. But Joe Manchin gets the most attention. Nancy Pelosi says, hang on, I haven't given up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I don't give up on Joe Manchin. As I said to him, I've read the op-ed, you've left the door open and --

DANA: Oh, you talked to him about it?

PELOSI: -- we can go right in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Such as faith and saints and angels. I mean, where you are, there's zero evidence on the table that Joe Manchin is coming around in this one.

DANA: She's trying to make him come around, I think with that. And they do talk. They actually have a relationship. And that -- but that is something that we should be watching for sure, the two of them and how maybe she will bring him like she has brought her own caucus in the House on various issues.

KING: That would be pulling a rabbit out of a hat. We will keep that -- we will keep an eye on that one.

[12:53:34]

Up next for us, a seismic shift, a huge shift in Israel. Bibi Netanyahu is out after 12 years as Prime Minister.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Topping our Political Radar today, you might say echoes of Trump in Israel where Benjamin Netanyahu now out as Prime Minister but vowing to topple the new government, quote, very quickly and he claims historic fraud.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We'll be back soon. We'll be back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The new Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and President Biden already moving on both quickly committing to the U.S.-Israel Alliance. President Biden vowing in the United States quote, remains unwavering in its support for Israel's security. Bennett will serve the first two-year and for four-year term as Prime Minister, coalition partner Yair Lapid will serve the final two years as prime minister.

A new ruling today keeps an item of Mueller intrigue secret, at least for now. Judge Amy Berman Jackson says the Justice Department can shield the key memo from public while illegal fight over its secrecy plays out. In that memo, then Attorney General Barr explains why he sided against charging then President Donald Trump with obstruction of justice as part of the special counsel investigation.

Here in the United States, the Vice President Kamala Harris is at the first stop of a nationwide tour to encourage those who have not yet gotten a lifesaving shot. It's part of June's month of action on vaccinations. She's speaking at a mobilization event in Greenville, South Carolina. Next hour, she scheduled a tour a pop up vaccination site at a local YMCA.

A group of Republican House members now plans to introduce a resolution to censure Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and other members of the so called Democratic squad. The Republicans accused Representative Omar of comparing the United States and Israel to Hamas and the Taliban. And they say her recent comments are quote, ignorant of the facts, shameful, and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms. The resolution, not expected to pass the Democratic House.

[13:00:00] Appreciate you joining us today in Inside Politics. Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow. Busy News Day, including the President on stage at the NATO Summit, Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.